Latest / CE Pro Podcast / CE Pro Podcast #180: How to Win Light Commercial Projects, from the CEDIA Expo 2026 Smart Stage

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CE Pro Podcast #180: How to Win Light Commercial Projects, from the CEDIA Expo 2026 Smart Stage · CE Pro Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: We've got a delivery solution for you about the place of the CDXL 2026 merged the edge.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: How among residential integrators can break into the light commercial market and take advantage of the new opportunities there?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Among the shum enhancement of the logic integration number than the demon reader and shampoo and reward among some numbers.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: And how integrators can leverage the skills and expertise that they already have.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the full conversation from the CDM Expo on the Smart Stage from just about a month ago.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoyed it.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Smartstage at CD Expo for what is sure to be a really fascinating discussion about how integrators can shift from homes to Main Street, scale up their businesses to be able to embrace light commercial projects, light commercial opportunities.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: We very much want to thank Sonos for sponsoring this very important session.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: It could not be here without Sonos' partnership.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for being part of this session.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I also want to welcome my guests to my immediate right, Chapin Ruark from Sonos, as well as my friend Sean Hansen from Logic Integration.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you both for being here and sharing your insights about light commercial opportunities.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So in my introductory remarks, and by the way, I'm Dan Farisi with Forge, Overseeing Commercial Integrator and CE Pro.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with the term light commercial.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've used it several times already.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of projects in your mind fit into that category?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why is light commercial more relevant now for residential focused integrators than perhaps it ever has been in the past?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Light commercial projects are primarily going to be your small mom and pop shops, restaurants, bars, fitness gyms, any or strip mall businesses from hair salons, those businesses that your residential homeowners own, and this is their way of life.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is a great opportunity for you guys to break into doing their businesses as well.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: One other one to add would be at the home, a lot of executives are having home offices.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they were doing hybrid workspaces and they needed to broadcast messaging or do conference calls from a home office where they're putting more commercial grade products in their office versus like an online Amazon type camera with you know lower quality.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: So we're seeing a lot of that in the home office as well.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: For integrators who specialize in residential, who may be a little bit skeptical, who may think this is outside of my core competency, this is not what I do every day, what would be your best argument for why they should be paying attention to light commercial?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Would it mainly be something about diversification, kind of akin to diversifying your stock portfolio rather than investing in only one thing?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or are there broader market shifts even beyond diversification that you think should be driving interest in light commercial?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we're we're already working with these clients.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: We have White Glove Service, we do an excellent job.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: We're in their homes, we have their contact information.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of these folks work for large companies.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so asking that homeowner what they do for work, how are their meeting spaces, it's kind of low-hanging fruit.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so we've we've really been awarded a lot of projects from that trusted relationship with the homeowner already.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Chapin, do you have any thoughts on that?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think diversification is really important too.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a lot of RMR opportunities that are in commercial spaces as well.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but diversifying your business from not just being reliant on homes being built and making sure you constantly have homeowners, getting in with commercial spaces will open opportunities for you to expand how your business is operating.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: If we work on a custom home and say it takes a year to two years to build, you sign the contract, you get that deposit, and you have dips in revenue, in production, and the PL, and so filling the gaps with these smaller commercial projects that can turn a lot quicker really helps the shark to effect on the profit and loss statement as well.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: So on the business side, it's great.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of it's wash and repeat business.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I like that, the shark tooth effect.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you want.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: You want to have a smoother, more predictable flow of revenue, right?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not just have the peaks and the valleys, but have a more predictable and smoother flow.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like what you're saying is these light commercial projects, not that they're commoditized, but they can be done in rapid succession.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: They may not be a multi-million dollar home, but they're the bread and butter projects that you can get get you through the week, get you through the month, get you through the year, and smooth out the overall project profitability.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a residential specialist excuse me, if a residential specialist in this room wants to explore light commercial work, where should they start?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Which verticals tend to be the most accessible first step?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Are there certain verticals you would say that's the low-hanging fruit, that's where you start?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think probably one of the easiest is what you touched on is the home offices and expanding into some of the like commercial offices as well.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So those spaces that those homeowners are going into work and they want products that they're familiar with using and they're comfortable with using.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Also, boutique shops are really easy to get into as well, hair salons, and then also one of the biggest ones is for your home builders.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: When they're building these neighborhoods, they typically have clubhouses.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's an awesome opportunity to get a small commercial project doing those clubhouses that are built into the neighborhoods.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: Small and medium meeting spaces, I think, are very, very low-hanging fruit.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like in a clubhouse, there might be a shared kitchen, entertainment space, and maybe even some conference rooms in like an MDU project or a development.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a lot of conference systems in a box that you can buy now.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: There's plenty of manufacturers here where it's very, very little training and spin-up time to do these meeting space and a box type kits, whether it's a sound bar or a mic kit, and even like small room scheduling, you can get in pretty quick.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So let me ask you this.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, certainly the conferencing and the enterprise meeting rooms, that seems like a really ripe opportunity.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: The title of this session is From Homes to Main Street.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is that actually applicable though in the real world?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Should we look at Main Street and say, that pizza parlor should be my client, that hair salon, that fitness studio, that restaurant, that bar, is that a good entry point for light commercial?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Should you walk down Main Street USA in your town and say, every one of these is my pathway to light commercial, or is that the hard way to do it?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody's been to a restaurant.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: My wife knows when we go out to eat, I usually sit at the table a little bit, I look up, I look at the TVs, I look at the hanging wires, maybe there's a speaker out.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: If you go there a lot, you start to notice those things.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: And for some of you, it really bothers you so much that you want to say something, right?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: Why not say something?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: Ask for the manager.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: Tell your server, hey, the food's amazing, the service is amazing, but I have a quick question for the manager.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to them about, hey, you know, we're we're a few miles away, this is what we do.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want us to come in and make this look better?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's what we do.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I come here all the time and I love the food, but I'd love to help you fix that.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: On the flip side, so we've talked about some low-hanging fruit or a particularly opportune ways to get your way into light commercial.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Are there some that you would not start with, like a higher education or worship or government?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: What would you point to and say these are not the right target if you're new to this category?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: I I think government is a big one.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and here's why.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: With government, you need to be bonded, insured.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's different web forms and applications you need to fill out to be certified.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um certifications, you need to have a unique ID.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: There, it's a very, very difficult and long process to get into that system in order to bid on the work.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oftentimes they go with the low bidder, or you're just being used as a bidder placeholder, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because they may already have a relationship.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I think going after government is difficult.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I would I would also say higher education as well.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: What is it about higher education?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the same kind of requirements for certification or having certain established credentials to get a seat at the table?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, oftentimes you would need a CTS certification.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe your engineers need a CTSD certification, so that's an AVIXA certification.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um but in order to get those projects, you need to know what you're doing.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: You also need to be able to support them.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: So if there's an issue with a classroom, that classroom cannot have downtime.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: And if there is downtime, is there a backup plan?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: Who do they call?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: So if it's you know you and a few folks at the company and they have an issue, you're gonna lose credibility right away.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anything you would add on that one, Chapin?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think you guys covered that one well.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of residential firms are used to working directly with homeowners.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're not used to working with IT managers or facilities teams or other commercial stakeholders that they might encounter when doing light commercial work.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: How big of an adjustment is that if you're dealing with an IT manager or a facilities team, and what does it take to earn credibility with that audience that may be different from earning credibility with the owner of a home?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think the key there is uh reliability, scalability, redundancies that are set in place, making sure that whatever the solution is that you're giving to them is going to work all the time.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: They need that reliability and that redundancy that they know when they come in to use their space, it's going to work for them.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: When we either do pre-fall pre-qualification on the phone or if it's on Teams, or we go on a site walk, we really try our best to know who the client is, who the buyer is.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because the person who sent in the lead form may not be the decision maker.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: They're just trying to fix a problem that is a pain in what their job position is.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: So if it's an IT manager, he doesn't want to deal with all the meeting spaces that don't work.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so that might be your client, but that's not the person writing the check.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: So you might have a CFO involved who just wants the lowest dollar amount to fix the problem.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so knowing your audience, if you're going to get into a corporate office or somewhere with meeting spaces is really, really important so that you can understand what the needs are and the goals are for each one of those people.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to dig even more into that in terms of operational differences between residential and light commercial.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we've talked a little bit about maybe customer expectations or the people with whom you're interfacing.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: But what about system design best practices, documentation expectations, code and compliance issues that might be different from homes to commercial or light commercial?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Where might firms be surprised if their whole ecosystem is residential, now all of a sudden you're dealing with design documentation, code and compliance on a commercial scale.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a surprise factor potentially there?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll share an example.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: So in a house of worship, if you were to go after house of worship or churches, if if the music's playing in the main sanctuary and there's a fire, that music must shut off.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: You can't have the band playing and 95 decibels of audio going and the fire alarms going off and no one knows.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot to think about in public space.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: What was the other part of your question on uh anything from documentation concerns, coding compliance, system design concerns, anything that might catch you off guard if you have been habituated to home, now you're in commercial, what's going to surprise you?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, I would say I'm gonna flip it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And in residential, when a job is complete, is it substantially complete or is it actually complete?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: In commercial, it has to be complete.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a handshake like, yeah, there's a few things done, but we'll you know you know, that are left to get done, but we'll get to that later.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: You really need to have a clean scope of work, execute the scope of work, and make sure your punch list is documented and agreed upon.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I call it CAD CAD drawings on a napkin or napkin CAD drawing.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: In residential, you can you know sort of your weasel your way into designing things and figuring it out on site, but in commercial, it must be drawn out and laid out and and to make sure this stuff works.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, some of it's mission critical.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: No weaseling your way in on the commercial side, right?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at what point would it make sense to consider partnership rather than organic growth into light commercial?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because it sounds like there are some gotchas there.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, there's a lot of profitability potential, there's diversification potential.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So this isn't negative about moving into light commercial.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: But is there a world where partnering makes more sense, having someone working shoulder to shoulder with you rather than building in those competencies yourself?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what role do manufacturer relationships, distributor relationships, vendor relationships generally play in helping integrators navigate that learning curve?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll end on that real quick.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: All right, go ahead.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna share two things.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm glad you mentioned the manufacture part.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: So we're actually working on a couple projects with Sonos where they have new commercial products coming out.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe we're not as familiar with that, and we're leaning on them to do the zone layout, the heat mapping.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they have some new POE speakers and products that we're not quite familiar with.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: How many can we put in a chain?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: How loud is it going to be?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: How high should we put the speakers?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of manufacturers here will help you do the layout and all the calculations and take the lift off your team.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: The second thing is we are a subcontractor for some of the largest national AV firms in America.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: And they bring our team in, boots on the ground.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, David's here, he just he has a relationship with one of them, and we did a 300,000 square foot building with our 35-person team, and we could not have probably won the three and a half million dollar AV contract.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: But we did sell two,$300,000 of labor, but they did all the engineering, they did all the commissioning, all the programming, and they took the lift off that off us.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so I thought that was a good example of partnering with somebody, right?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're not sure about a project, bring in a manufacturer or maybe talk to another larger integrator in your area.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great point, and Chapin, it's a great place for you to speak as well because I know Sonos is focusing very heavily on light commercial, and you're also focusing not just on the technologies, but about integrator enablement, making it an easier lift for them to get into some of these spaces, bars, restaurants, and beyond.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: You want to talk about how you can be a good vendor partner and enable integrators to do this?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sonos actually has an entire commercial team now that's based on planning these projects and helping our commercial integrators.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: But we're really trying to have a holistic approach to where we're providing the software side of everything from commercially licensed music for your businesses and your locations that you're doing, and then also the products that all the of our software work on all of our products.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So Sonos Pro implements into anything we do, including Air 100 Pro, which is our new PoE speaker that can implement across all of your projects.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's really designed to give us stability, reliability, and then we have the brand equity behind it as well, because your business owners know Sonos, they see Sonos, they see it in Walmart, they see it in Costco, they see it everywhere.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sonos is a known brand that they get to see and they have trust that this is going to work for their business as well.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: So why can't I stream a regular music account in a public space, Chapin?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: And what happens?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Talk about that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can because this happens a lot.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can stream it, but it is very dangerous if you want to get fined.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a great way to have your business shut down very quickly.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Umic, licensed music is extremely important because you're in a public space, you have to play the licensed music that is required for the public to be in your space.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: So how they catch this is whatever streaming device you have in the commercial space has a MAC address and the IP address for the internet service provider, they'll know that you're streaming on a personal account in a commercial space and you can get fined.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: And they're getting really good at it because of technology today, right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: So make sure, whether it's Sonos or other products, that you're actually doing a subscription for licensed music.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: One other thing, too, is when you implement Sonos Pro into these accounts, they actually get a Sonos Pro account manager as well that will help them design and choose what playlists are gonna fit their business model.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that way they get playlists that fit their aesthetic and what they're looking for.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that people come into their business, they feel like the music is meeting what the business is that they've walked into.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: So and the integrator can make some money from this as well, right, Chapin?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sonos Pro also offers RMR.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So every one of these accounts that you set up for these businesses, they're gonna get money back in their pocket that they can use to purchase future products from Sonos.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk even more about what manufacturers can do for exactly that to enable integrators to be more successful, be more profitable, work themselves into these light commercial environments.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked a little bit about training, system design guidance, post-installation support.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: How important are all of those things?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Are they critical to success here?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what about simply deployment, simplicity, and interoperability?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about light commercial, is interoperable, is simple, really critical to making this work?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'll I'll use the meeting space example again.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: When we walk into an office space, we will walk around and look at all the different meeting spaces, and some rooms are on Zoom, some are on Teams.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe the executives are using WebEx.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so when a new user goes in those rooms, they're like, okay, wait, this room is Teams, I got Zoom on my laptop.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, in our core values, we want things reliable and we want things simple to use.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: So standardization is so important, which goes with your core values of easy to use for us.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're pretty passionate about making every room the same and really trying to get as close to possible as one touch button for starting a meeting, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: One touch meetings.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're customizing programming and you're making it complicated and you have to go four pages in to start a meeting or to turn up the volume, that's really a part of how we pick products and partners so that it's easy to use.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Eliminate the friction, eliminate all the stress and the hassle, just make the technology work, the metaphorical easy button.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, some facilities that we will work in have 20 different users a day.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe they have a lot of turnover, right?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of summer interns that come in, and you you know you don't want someone to have to train new people every single week on how to use these systems.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's very inefficient.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think standardization is extremely important.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that way it doesn't matter what room they walk into, they know how to work it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of these smaller businesses also want something that's more home-like.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if Sonos is what's in their home, and then they go to their work and Sonos is at their business, they easily understand how it works.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Immediately it's just super familiar for them.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean that's critical for the integrator as well, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because if there is a friction-filled environment, the client is probably not going to be angry at the supplier.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to be angry at the integrator saying, why is my system not working?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so challenging?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so difficult?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Which makes it especially important to find the right vendor partner who is going to give you the tools that you need, but also give you the pre-installation support, the design support, the post-installation support, so that you look like a rock star and you get the five-star review.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And they're critical to that, right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: And and selfishly speaking, too, on the service side, our service manager is here, Steve.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, Steve.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: Steve and his team do not want to learn how to support eight different brands of conferencing systems.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: And custom interfaces and complexity, right?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: When we get a call, he wants each technician to know how to support whatever brand it might be so that it comes back to standardization.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: So if we have hundreds of sites that are paying a monthly recurring revenue for a support plan, we want to help them as fast as possible.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: If we only installed that one thing that one year, because the salesperson maybe liked that one thing that year.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Supporting that is kind of a disaster sometimes.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I know, Sean, this may be a very hard question, but can you think of any integrator out there in the real world that has balanced residential and commercial to very good effect?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And what maybe they underestimated along the way, but what has changed positively in their business as a result of balancing both of these worlds?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Any integrators come to mind?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, definitely.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm there's a few different buying groups.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: We happen to be in ProSource, so there are a couple great integrators.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I would say Fusion Audio Video is a good one.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um Maxicon out of Florida is a good one.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: It is hard to market and message to both markets, to commercial and residential.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to train for both.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: And we really try not to mix as much as possible.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: If we're short on labor or we need resources, we do mix.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: But it is really challenging to do both.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm also grateful that I do both because when one's down, usually the other is up.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: And once again, I want nice, smooth financials.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I phrased the question that way because the immediate one that comes to mind when I think about striking a good balance is logic integration for exactly the reason that you say.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: It fortifies you against economic turbulence.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: If the resie market is down one year, commercial might be up, or vice versa.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: You are fortified against that.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you are you didn't mention yourself in all humility, but you're one of the first ones I think of, among the others that you mentioned.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't gonna mention myself.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: I I think also the principles of residential go into commercials.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: So like we really strive to clean as we go.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we work on a room, we clean the room, we move to the next room.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: There's drop cloths, we do blue tape along the drywall above the baseboard, so when we're cutting in, we don't get the drywall dust and the black baseboard.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of those residential principles can be applied into the commercial space, right?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Vacuuming as you go.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: And when we work in commercial buildings, it is like a shred-a-thon.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: They go to every room, cut everything in as fast as possible, things are laying on the floor.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oops, five o'clock, I'll clean it up tomorrow, right?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so not eating on the client site in their meeting space, right?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Eat outside the building.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: We really try to apply that to commercial.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: As integration firms evaluate light commercial opportunities, where would you say services and ongoing support fit into the picture?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is light commercial as an overall category overarching all the verticals and uh solution areas that it might encompass?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something where recurring service relationships can become a meaningful part of the business or not any differently than other categories you might want to expand into?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: I th I think in the commercial space, for the most part, it's expected.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Once again, if you can make someone's job easier and they're not paying for it, generally speaking, it's kind of a no-brainer.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: So we really try to pitch service and support first at the first meeting.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's on our website, it's usually in the first call, it's in our email.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: We really are trying to message all the time that you have to take care of and maintain this stuff to have a great experience.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I think I think it's very, very important, and it really is good money.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's good for the company.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Our team knows that if we can sell recurring revenue in service contracts, it benefits everybody.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, during this morning's manufacture roundtable, that's pretty much exactly what we were talking about.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: If it simply works on day one, that's table stakes.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: What about day 100?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: What about day 1000?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: There is an expectation with a significant financial outlay that you're guaranteeing an experience in the long run, right?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: But you cannot do that without those ongoing touch points of service, support, maintenance, and being that strategic advisor that is there shoulder to shoulder.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Again, not just a project closeout, but a year later and beyond.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: It creates sticky clients.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: You're regularly talking, you're checking in if they pay for an annual visit or a biannual visit, maybe they have 40 or 50 hours a year in their support agreement.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Our team is out there.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: They remember our team members.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, I saw you last year.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hey, by the way, I have this other room I was thinking about calling you about.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: So you're really creating sticky relationships.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: And in the commercial spaces, corporate, in gyms, in dental offices, there are there is turnover, so we get the opportunity to meet the new person who's in charge of all this technology.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So suppose someone here at CD Expo is listening to this panel, they're weighing in their mind, should I do this, should I not do this?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully you feel like this has not been a one-sided conversation.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about the wins and the positives, but also some of the potential gotchas and some of the risks of moving to light commercial.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say are the main factors that they should weigh in their mind as they decide whether light commercial is right for them?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is it codes and compliance?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is it diversification?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is it profitability?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: What should they be weighing when they do their own pro and con lists to decide if this is right for them?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a lot, a lot, that could be a long answer.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: Whenever we take on a new vertical or even a new product line, we always want to ask why.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Is it for the money?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: So why would I want to do commercial?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because we want to diversify because maybe our residential is down.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I think that's a good why.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: But are you gonna do it with excellence?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: So if we try to take on something new, I want to do it with excellence.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want a half asset.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Can you say half asset, CDO?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no censor.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um but but picking the vertical you're in, if you go after government and you land that$100,000 job and you ring the bell and you celebrate, and then they tell you that you you get paid in 90 days, do you have the working capital to do it?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a five million dollar insurance policy before you go into the building?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta think about all these things.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: What about you, Chape?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And what would you say?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think the big thing is to not be afraid to lean into your manufacturers or and they will always try to help you.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: We have lots of team members, and so do all these businesses that are here.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: They will always try to help you and make sure that you go in with the right foot forward and you land these projects well.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Find the products that you like and that you trust and that you actually know that it's going to work for you, and rely on those heavy.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: We installed pendant speakers in a 30,000 square foot building, and we put the taps wrong on almost all of them.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: So we would turn up the volume and it wasn't very loud and it was distorted.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: They had already finished the floors, and we had to buy 50 sheets of uh particle board or plywood and drive the lift over the floor and spend two days fixing all the speakers.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: If we would have worked with maybe the manufacturer, or maybe it was a mistake on our end that we looked over, we wouldn't have had to do that.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Another one is I love sharing horror stories, is we installed a bunch of our very first commercial speakers, they were eight-inch speaker craft.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: You guys remember speaker craft?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: We hung them all in the top in the ceiling tiles, but we didn't put in the tile bridges and we didn't do hangers.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: So after about two or three months, the ceiling tiles started to sag more and more and more.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: What if those speakers hit people in the head?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: So our manufacturer could have helped us with that, but you know, we did it on our own, right?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um all the manufacturers that that we work with really, really have been incredible resources from easy things to hard things.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely work with them.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that maybe is the single most important point to underscore.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: We talk a lot about integrators being those consultative advisors to their clients, and they should be.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the best vendors are equally strategic consultative advisors to their integrators.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: They are invested in that integrator's success.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they're a brand new integrator that's trying to master the product line, or they're a long-term multi-year partner of that vendor, thinking about training, system design guidance, post-installation support, being there shoulder to shoulder.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: It really is advisory straight down the line, right?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: From vendor to integrator, from integrator to client, all to guarantee an outstanding outcome.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And is that kind of the vision that you have at Sonos?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, exactly.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: We have all the training available.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: We basically want whenever you install our products, you're putting our product out there and we want it done right.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever you install it right and it looks good, it looks really good for us.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we provide all the training, there's academy, there's our training webinars, lots of different opportunities.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Speak to account managers, we will always try to get you guys in touch with who you need to be in touch with to make sure you know how to implement these products well.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: How many of you heard the phrase before?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: I hate complicated A V systems, I don't like A V.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Raise your hand.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: It probably was not designed or installed correctly.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, for the sake of our industry, get it done right.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: Have somebody help you.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yesterday I spoke about this topic in one of the classrooms downstairs, and someone was installing fitness systems with microphones in gyms, and the end user kept blowing all their speakers.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: But they just kept replacing the speakers.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't the speakers.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: They put an amplifier in every location that had no limiter and no protection for the speakers.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: A manufacturer could have caught that very, very quickly, but they didn't have an engineer on staff.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't have anybody who knew.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's just a real simple example of just making a call and saying, hey, I'm putting this in a gym, and they scream into a microphone on a bunch of microphones.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: Is this the right product?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: One of these days we're gonna have to do just a session about collected A V horror stories of like things gone wrong.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, photos and stories.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Sign me up.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you, Sean, always joining these panels.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Great to connect with you for the first time, Chapin, and thank you so much to Sonos for sponsoring this session.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have to say, I visited their booth yesterday.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic stuff.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Please do check out the Sonos booth before the end of Cedia Expo.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, again, thank you for joining us.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it, and have a great rest of the show.