Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 14: Anthony Cockrill | The Epidemic of the Underprepared Athlete

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EP 14: Anthony Cockrill | The Epidemic of the Underprepared Athlete · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

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The idea of maximizing 4 years is out the window.
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What can you do in one year to maximize the results in one
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singular year? We're scared to like really push
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kids and put them in a place that's risky, but that's where
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all the great results come from. And so you get these kids that
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have been in programs for 3-4 years and they're underdeveloped
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relative to our standards of things.
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And then like you're saying, we have one year to maximize this
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kids potential, but they're at the same level as like our
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incoming freshmen. Feeling good's easy, but you can
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you actually handle what's being thrown at you?
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Can you handle that stress? People that recover the fastest
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are the ones that have have the capacity to handle the demands.
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Bubble wrapping kids never goes well.
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Welcome to the Strength in Numbers podcast.
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I'm your host, John Bloom, and today's guest is Anthony
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Cockrill. Anthony's the Director of
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Volleyball Sports Performance and assistant Director of
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Olympic Sports at SMU, where he helped the volleyball program
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earn a number two seed in the NCAA Tournament this past
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season. Anthony does an incredible job
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of truly developing this team and we talk about what people
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often misunderstand about development, how the transfer
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portal has changed the way he approaches development, and why
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many athletes these days he sees are underdeveloped.
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This is an awesome episode that I know will really make you
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think. Enjoy the episode Anthony.
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It's it's always a pleasure to get a talk talk with you man.
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I appreciate you being here. Yeah, thank you.
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Excited to chop it up just like every other.
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Weekend. Yeah, you know, and I feel like
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you've you've been blowing up this year.
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So I feel like most people know who you are.
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But if they don't, you talk about like, who are you?
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What do you do? And what drove you to to do
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that? Yeah, Anthony Cockrel and the
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director of volleyball sports performance at SMU.
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What drove me to do this is I wasn't like most of the other
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strengths Coach not good enough. So this is the best way into
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high level athletics for the itch to scratch.
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Yeah, volleyball. I've been here just going on in
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our fourth season with this volleyball program, but my
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second year exclusively with just volleyball, which is unique
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and fun. We've never thought this five
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years ago, but yeah, here we are.
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Yeah. And The thing is this offseason,
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right, you got the the title of director of volleyball
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performance, which I think if I'm not wrong, that's like the
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potentially the first in the nation with that.
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Yeah, we think so. Who knows, It's probably, yeah,
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never know. But at least like publicly, like
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on the directory kind of at least still like in the power 4,
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that's not a, you know, most high level volleyball programs
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like your director of an Olympic sports kind of probably does
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volleyball, hence the director role or I'm not the Olympic
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director. So we're able to create this a
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director position for volleyball in the same capacity is what
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you're trying to do is like a men's basketball, women's
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basketball, football, and we are the director of those programs.
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Now you have like the director of volleyball.
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And so we can hopefully keep pushing that ceiling for others
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to follow suit across the country.
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So let's see. What looks different with you
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obviously like the title, but but what you can actually do for
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that program and contribute to that program?
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That maybe people that are a director or another sports can't
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maybe contribute. Yeah, I just think my maybe my
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involvement day-to-day and everything outside of just the
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your job title training. So I think a lot of people do
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this, but like, obviously nutrition is an easy start if
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you're not already getting really involved in the nutrition
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supplementation space. But then after that, even a
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little more maybe from a planning standpoint of practice,
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which some people are doing again, But I think now what may
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be unique, and I think some people are doing this too,
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especially if you're at the highest level and have been with
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like a staff for maybe an extended period of time, is
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involvement in recruiting and evaluating kids, evaluating
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talent and giving opinions on that.
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So again, just kind of just think like having your hands in
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every pot possible that impacts the program from the holistic
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health and Wellness to even like the the type of kid you're
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bringing on campus and whether it's reaching out to these kids
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or speaking to their parents or you know, like just, yeah, just
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almost everything outside of just maybe making the final
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decisions. But yeah, yeah, I think I don't
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think it's anything super novel. I think a lot of people are
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doing nutrition. A lot of people are obviously
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involved in planning. Maybe what may be unique if that
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is the amount of influence on recruiting.
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Do you see it get into a place in volleyball where you know it
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is more like basketball or football where the head coach
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has their person that basically they're bringing to new jobs or
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you know, you're you're losing your job if your coach loses
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your job and you're more attached to the staff rather
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than just the department or the like.
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Yeah, I think so. It's kind of like what we're
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here trying to trying to push. We're not to that point yet
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here, but I'm taking the steps in the right direction because I
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get at the end of the day like it's the, it's the business.
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Revenue generating sports are kind of the ones that kind of
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push these needles and we're trending in that direction here
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being a revenue generating sport.
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So yeah, like ideally we're trying to like our comparison,
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like when we're in talks of asking for things or pushing
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needles here is men's basketball.
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It's an easy comparison, similar court sport, roster size, all
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these things. But yeah, I would hope so.
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I think from like my position standpoint of just providing
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value for myself from a lifestyle financially, like
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that's that's what you should be pushing for.
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Obviously there's risk, inherent risks just like any of those
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other positions. Like if you do get attached and
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the program doesn't do well, the risk is high of being
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unemployed. But vice versa, like if you are
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in a program of successful, there's a lot of great things
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that come with that. So yeah, that we're trying to
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push that needle. I think you know this and like a
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lot of people hearing this in these Olympic departments and
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the ceiling is pretty low. You know, you're kind of just
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you're at the the mercy of the department.
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It's and not the sport you can be with really successful like
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Olympic sports and that bring no like maybe financial gain to
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you, right, Regardless of how successful your your soccer
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program is or things like that. But if you are in a program that
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you're tied to that program and that head coach and they are
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successful, you see the same gains those coaches see, whether
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it's financial or just, you know, just from like a gross
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standpoint of climbing the ladder within this profession.
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So yeah, ideally that's my goal is like if she for some reason
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goes off bigger and better things that I'm riding that
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coattail. Yeah, Yeah.
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And as you're talking about that with the kind of the Olympic
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space, and I've never, I've never really had to stop before.
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But with with the changes right now kind of athletics, as you
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know, revenue sharing and you know, might lead to some of the
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less revenue generating sports being cut and kind of just just
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lots of changes happening. How do you see maybe where it
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becomes, where as it as the sport numbers narrow down, where
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it becomes less like there's just less Olympic departments,
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Like OK, each sport just gets their own person.
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Yeah, more so across the board. Yeah.
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I mean, I've, I've gone kind of back and forth on this.
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I think ideally that's kind of where it should go if you're
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trying to maximize like how a high performing program, it's
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really hard for your strength coach to give like quality when
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they're stretched between 345 programs.
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You know, they all they can do for you is train, but obviously
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they need to do more than that if you want to maximize the
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potential of the position. It's tough.
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You know, I think we're maybe who knows what 5-10 years down
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the road looks like in college. It's, I mean, nobody knows what
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tomorrow's going to look like. But I think ideally, if you want
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to maximize the potential of strength and conditioning
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positions within programs and the influence they have on
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actually these programs, they need to be 1 coach to 1 program
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and get Uber involved into everything.
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Because again, that's why these sometimes these positions that
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are stretched thin with 345-A teams become just easily
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replaceable like they're there. And that's why the ceiling for
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finance and lifestyle so low because you're not bringing
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anything to the table that's maybe pushing the needle that
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nobody else can do. But if you're in with one
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program, you can definitely bring a lot more to the table
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and do things that are unique that other people can't do.
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And that makes you invaluable. And then it when you're
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invaluable, that comes the gains from financial standpoint and
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lifestyle standpoint. So I think we should as a
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profession be pushing that because everything we complain
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about will probably be fixed if you are with one program.
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But again, not like anything, there's inherent risk.
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And like, again, who knows what 535 next year looks like.
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Who knows what programs are going to get cut, if any, you
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know, but maybe positions get cut and what does that look
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like? So it's a lot of unknown.
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But I think from a macro standpoint, this profession
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should push, regardless of sport, to really specialize and
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individualize and like working with singular programs because
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that's where the most gain comes from in my opinion.
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Yeah. So let's say, let's say you
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know, there's a strength coach just starting their career.
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If if if you were them or or talking to them, advising them
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like what sport should they try and pursue if there's pursuance
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air conditioning or should they or should they even try and
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pursue a specific sport? Yeah, this is where I this is
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where I like this dilemma comes in because most people are going
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to chase the football. Basketball obviously it's over
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saturated already and it's really hard to get those jobs.
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So I think I still think like when you're early and just
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expose yourself to everything from like you just need reps
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from a coaching standpoint, like it's and then from there, it's
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like, you know, just like what interests you.
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Can you make like logical decisions from your perspective
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on like, is there a need for you somewhere that they're there?
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They're like a like a golf for stamps from that standpoint.
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It's like they're a need for a strength coach in this position.
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You know that you're you're seeing that they're limited.
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Like for me, I saw a need for my position in volleyball that
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wasn't there and I don't really see across the country.
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And I think like that, that's something that is a low hanging
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fruit that can push that sport. Can you are you able to like
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identify that elsewhere from your experience?
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But I think early on, just like getting involved into
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everything, seeing every end of the spectrum.
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So you can make your own logical decision based off your own
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experiences. And so, but it, you know, it's
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tough because then like I'm saying, like you should be
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specializing into a singular sport in the long term.
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Obviously there is pros doing that early, but I think that can
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limit maybe you're just decision making and coaching and you're
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developed as a coach because you get so narrowed into a certain
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scope. Yeah, that's a tough one.
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You know, this is the dilemma you kind of fall into.
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I think you hinder when you specialize early, you hinder
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development from a coaching standpoint.
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But vice versa, if you're so spread out, how do how do you
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specialize in the and create an advantage for yourself early?
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And so, yeah, it's it's tough. I think, yeah, my personal bias
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because I did it is work. I worked with everything coming
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into this position and I think that really shaped me into the
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which I am from like a true just coaching standpoint.
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But it's really just kind of like the situation, depending
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where you're at in the moment. I kind of dictated where I how I
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got into this position. And who knows, if I was at a
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different school, would I still be doing this sport?
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Like who knows? But the situation I was in kind
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of, it was a right place, right time.
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And I like to say but yeah, it's tough.
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I mean, I don't really have a hard answer for that one.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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I mean, like you're talking, I feel like, I feel like it's, I
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mean, it's pretty similar comparison to like as we talk
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about specialization with athletes where as you're
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younger, play everything, right, as a young coach, coach
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everything, then you continue, you become a great athlete, you
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become a great coach from that broad sampling period.
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And then from that you can continue to specialize from
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there at a certain point, but you don't want it too early.
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And there probably is a there probably is a head start.
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If you do specialize or just like in sports, you get a little
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bit of a head start. You know, if you specialize with
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a certain sport, you get a little head start.
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Yeah. But what's the long term
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detriment of that head start is that I think that comes in line
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with with coaching too. Like you're saying, you got to,
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you got to get the experience of being a great coach in a lot of
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different settings that can then set you up to be great and the
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specific setting that you have down the line.
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Yeah, yeah, I agree. It hey, that's a good like it's
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the same as athletes. Yeah, I think it is.
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It's going to hinder your development long term coaching,
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being able to make like logical decision making because your
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lack of experiences and certain things.
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But again, vice versa. No, you had now you have a neck
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up on people, like maybe you're in a position earlier now, maybe
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you're climbing the ladder a little earlier.
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And it's great if you and like, it's great in that for sure.
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And like if you're successful in that, who cares?
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Like really from a development standpoint.
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But yeah, there are macro negatives, but that's that's the
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game, you know? Yeah, that's that's what makes
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it fun. Yeah.
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So as we talk about development, I want to look at development
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now for athletes, that which I think you're really good at, at
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doing what do what do coaches misunderstand about development?
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I think we get like, you know, I think a lot of times like you
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don't know what you don't know, but we really know we know and
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what everybody else is doing. And like you've come to this.
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I've kind of shifted my thinking a little bit in the college
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space, like the long term idea and like just just playing the
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long game, you know, like take it slow, slow cook them, which
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is true, I think has some merit, but I don't think it has merit
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in college anymore because this is like, oh, it's a one year
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deal now. Transfer portals taking over
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across the board, all sports. You got one year to maximize
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results in one year. So there's no more long term 4
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year plan anymore. So I think going back to kind of
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the idea of like being a super quality coach, like it's easy to
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maximize results in a year, you know, but for some people it's
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tough, you know, and especially these young coaches, like we're
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saying, I don't have a ton of experience and like every year
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is a new cream of crop kids. And like it's hard to like set
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plans and set these macro goals when you don't know if these
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kids are going to be here next year.
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So development wise, I think in college I'm going to kind of
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just use my own like just experience and like what I know
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in the college setting, but I think we're still stuck on these
13:47
long term ideas. And then like again, you're no
13:49
matter what sports you're in, there's anomalies across the
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board and programs, but your roster is going to turn over in
13:55
some capacity or there's graduation or transfer portal.
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There's going to be probably almost half the kids across the
14:01
board are going to be new, whether they've been in programs
14:04
before or they're freshmen. So the idea of maximizing 4
14:07
years is out the window. What can you do in one year to
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maximize results in one singular year?
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So you have to be a little more aggressive in training, you
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know, like there's no like just smooth progression for three
14:18
months of doing this certain movement.
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And then once they're proficient, this certain
14:21
movement that's out the window. You're just wasting time at that
14:24
point. So that's, this is the art, you
14:26
know, of trying to figure out well, what's best in this
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scenario for this program, for this individual to maximize
14:31
results. But then within that, you know,
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it's like there's underpinning things that kind of make these
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things happen in decision making.
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I think there's still a, there's still a not enough emphasis on
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just like the body awareness, kinesthetic awareness, like just
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having elite awareness, elite like movers.
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I think a lot of times the strength coaches we deem like
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elite movers as like these arbitrary like movements in the
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weight room, like, oh, they squat.
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Well, they're an elite mover. And that's very arbitrary and
14:57
very subjective. And I think almost all movements
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subjective. But you know what, in a like a
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kid that has elite kinesthetic awareness looks like in their
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sport in comparison to somebody that doesn't, you know, I think
15:07
those things are trainable and I think you can expose kids to
15:11
environments that really challenge their awareness.
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And so I think that's a if you're wanting to develop in a
15:16
long term, I think that's really beneficial is challenging
15:19
kinesthetic awareness because kids that I think for us like
15:23
gymnastics is easy comparison. I think that's elite like body
15:26
awareness. And I think when we're doing
15:28
like what we deem gymnastics, those kids have elite awareness.
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And then they also move really where and well, and all these
15:34
arbitrary weight room things too, like the squatting, the
15:36
push up, the chin up. But I have kids that are also
15:39
really good in the squat, the push up that aren't good in the
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like true kinesthetic awareness. Things of like gymnastics or
15:45
maybe things like that involve like having rhythm, you know,
15:48
like just skipping, you know, like like those are the things
15:51
that I think when you're talking about development or more
15:53
beneficial to the sport and the athlete holistically and
15:56
globally, that's going to kind of bleed into everything else.
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It's not being an elite squatter and elite like bench presser.
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You know, it's the kids have elite rhythm, elite self, like
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elite body control, elite kinesthetic awareness that
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bleeds into everything else. So I think we're talking about
16:13
development. Sometimes our profession, you
16:15
know how it is, like I just developed the squat, the chin up
16:18
and I do the same thing, but I don't die on that hill of like
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that's what it's going to bleed into elite awareness.
16:24
You know, I think it's gymnastics, I think it's
16:26
playing, I think it's doing things that have rhythm.
16:29
So development in the college setting, I still think we're
16:31
stuck on the arbitrary squatch and up.
16:33
Those are elite movers. But then on the vice versa, I
16:35
think we're still stuck in a long term 4 year plans,
16:38
three-year plans and it doesn't exist anymore.
16:41
Regardless of what anybody wants to admit, it's one year and you
16:44
got to maximize 1. Yeah, and I, you know, I totally
16:47
agree and relate to that standpoint of like, hey, like,
16:50
you know, especially you're getting a grad trans, his
16:52
friend, like how can we maximize this retirement investment of
16:55
this year? One thing, one thing I think
16:59
about though, is like, is there a long term cost to that where
17:03
like, let's say a freshman comes in to you and it's like, OK,
17:07
let's maximize them right now in this year.
17:09
Then they go somewhere else and that school like we're going to
17:11
maximize them and they go somewhere else and we're going
17:13
to maximize this just every year.
17:14
It's like trying to, you know, just get as much as possible
17:17
like what's the, what's the long term cost to that?
17:19
I don't know, I think sometimes like also have to, I think
17:23
sometimes people forget like you know what you're getting into a
17:25
sport and training like it is wear and tear.
17:27
It doesn't matter. Like it is a cost to like to do
17:31
these things. You know, if you're if you're
17:33
scared of the long term detriments of playing sport,
17:36
don't play sport, don't get out of bed.
17:38
Like it is what it is like you kind of know what you're getting
17:40
into. So I think regardless of it,
17:44
it's going to be some long term negative effect of intense
17:46
training and high level sport, no matter how much bubble wrap
17:50
we put around them. Yeah, I mean, it kind of just is
17:53
what it is. You know, it's the nature of the
17:54
beach and high level athletics. Like you're probably going to
17:56
pay for it somewhere down the road.
17:58
No guarantee, but your chances of paying for it a lot higher
18:01
than somebody that's not playing sport.
18:03
But I will say, like even for me, I haven't gotten to the
18:05
point where I'm like pushing freshmen yet really aggressive
18:08
because at the end of the day, like you're getting these kids
18:10
are probably never trained before and they do have to learn
18:12
how to train. And maybe we do accelerate the
18:15
process a little bit with like I was saying before, like maybe
18:18
they're not on like this thought out super robust progression for
18:22
a squat anymore. Maybe we're kind of like 3 weeks
18:25
and we're right into it. But there are like they do have,
18:29
at least in our program, they do have a leash that's pretty
18:32
tight. You know, for example, like our
18:34
freshmen, they're not using weight releasers in the first
18:37
year. I just don't feel comfortable
18:38
with that yet. But that doesn't mean they're
18:40
not like back squatting and doing all these other things.
18:42
Like from an advanced method standpoint, they're not doing
18:45
those things, but they are training hard and training more
18:47
aggressive than I would maybe 3-4 years ago with a freshman.
18:51
But relative to like the space rent now, I think it's not as
18:55
aggressive as like you're saying, the grad or the junior?
18:57
Senior, Yeah. You know, I guess as you talk
19:00
there kind of read from my thoughts around, it's like just
19:02
because we're trying to maximize results doesn't mean it's the
19:07
same advanced methods for each other.
19:08
Like you're saying like maximizing results for a
19:10
freshman can look very different than maximizing results for
19:13
someone older based off what we use.
19:16
And like, you know, the whole analogy, people use it like the
19:18
toothpaste where like a young athlete at first, it's like the
19:22
brand new thing, a toothpaste, you can do anything and the
19:24
toothpaste comes out easier. Like the old person that's been
19:27
trained forever, you get, you know, work super hard to get
19:29
anything out of there. So it's like we can maximize it
19:32
for someone younger without, like you're saying, without
19:34
using weight releases, without using something more advanced
19:36
maybe we need for someone older. Yeah, even like that, like I
19:40
don't even think like I could, I truly, if I like had if I had a
19:44
kid start today and I did the probably the same thing for four
19:46
years straight. There's probably still get
19:47
better on year 4. I think some people forget like
19:52
strength coach has been training a long time, you know, 10
19:54
probably plus years of training and doing all kinds of crazy
19:57
things. These kids like 4 years of
19:59
training in comparison to like what we're used to and what our
20:02
biases are used to is nothing. And they can still like, as long
20:06
as they're just training with intent and like some logic, it
20:10
doesn't have to be crazy and they're going to get great
20:12
results. You know, like it just just is
20:14
what it is. I think sometimes we think like,
20:16
OK, like this senior, they're a senior now.
20:19
They've been with me for three years, like doing this same.
20:22
Program isn't going to yield the same results, probably not as
20:25
like when they first started it, but it's still going to yield a
20:28
result. So I think sometimes, yeah, like
20:30
you can probably just do the same thing for four years if you
20:32
just train really hard and still get great results.
20:34
You know, like 4 years is not a long time for like I still don't
20:37
think that's an advanced trainee by definition.
20:40
Four years, like 10-15 years is probably an advanced trainee
20:44
where now you need like these advanced methods where we're
20:46
talking like Olympians that have been training their whole lives,
20:49
You know, that's where maybe advanced methods might be
20:51
needed. And like the generalized
20:53
training kind of probably has hit the cap for what's going to
20:55
yield for them. But low level college athletes
20:58
that are probably never going to be Olympians, just four years of
21:00
hard training, probably going to yield the same results it did in
21:02
year 1 because they're just training hards.
21:05
I think sometimes it kind of missed that boat also is then I
21:08
think we're just kind of feed the ego a little bit because you
21:10
want to do the advanced methods just for the sake of doing
21:12
advanced methods. But most of the time these kids
21:15
don't need it. They're not ever going to be
21:17
advanced enough. And four years is not a lot of
21:19
time in reality. Yeah, yeah.
21:21
Now, now as we talk about development transfer portal,
21:24
right. And inherently with that there's
21:26
you get in all these new transfers in for your program
21:30
each year that have come from different places that they've
21:33
been trained different styles, different coaches.
21:35
You've also you also see some of your athletes go spread out to
21:37
different places kind of this this spreading out diffusion of
21:42
players across the nation from you and then into your program.
21:46
Like I think it's cool because it does expose you to a lot of
21:49
different things that are happening for athletes and you
21:51
get to see a lot of things. So like what what has that
21:53
helped you maybe realize or learn about development through
21:58
seeing kind of what everybody else is is doing or the results
22:01
of people come in what everybody else is doing?
22:03
Yeah, yeah, I there's like 2 two things I've noticed.
22:09
I think sometimes like for getting a grad, a kid that's
22:12
been in a pro senior that's been in college for like 2 plus years
22:16
and we get them. I've kind of, and this is
22:19
subjective to myself and my own thoughts, but I usually like
22:23
they're under trained relative to our program.
22:26
And it's kind of surprising and makes me question like what this
22:30
what are we doing basically across the board in this field?
22:33
Because unfortunately this is the law of this field.
22:35
There's no standard for things, you know, you get to do whatever
22:37
you want, which is not OK, but it's great for like us because
22:40
we have this complete freedom, but in reality it's not great.
22:42
And so we get these kids that have been in programs for 3-4
22:45
years and they're underdeveloped relative to our standards of
22:47
things. And then like you're saying, we
22:49
have one year to maximize this kids potential, but they're at
22:52
the same level as like our incoming freshmen, but they've
22:54
been in high level college programs.
22:56
So that's like, OK. So I've noticed a lot of that,
22:59
which is not great, but also I've noticed like kids come in
23:02
with that train with a shit ton of intent, really value training
23:05
and are really bought into training art, which shows on the
23:07
other end of the spectrum, like they're coming from that have
23:10
like really pushed the the net, the need for training and they
23:12
understand the need to train hard, which makes it easy.
23:15
Then I don't have to beg kids to train hard because I understand
23:18
that the value coming from other programs that really push
23:21
training in the same way we do. But everybody does things
23:24
differently. Like no matter, like I'm going
23:26
to probably teach a kid to squat a certain way regardless of the
23:29
elite program they come from. So, but as long as like they
23:32
just train hard, like that's all you can really ask for.
23:36
But I think development to the standards that like we have from
23:40
an assessment standpoint, most of these kids come in
23:43
underdeveloped to the potential they should be at, which is not
23:47
great. I'm sure like people are
23:49
probably saying the same thing with their assessments to any
23:52
kids that have left our program to go somewhere else, you know,
23:54
because it's subjective and relative to that program and
23:57
it's a lawless field. But again, anecdotally to our
24:00
program, it seems like a lot of kids are coming in
24:02
underdeveloped for how long they've been in other programs.
24:05
Yeah. What I guess what do you think?
24:07
And obviously there's a million different ways to go and
24:10
obviously different, different programs.
24:11
Like what do you think is like contributing to the
24:14
underdevelopment or like under training and what it is?
24:17
Because like, obviously, like, like you're saying, there's it,
24:20
there's no really, I guess, set way of doing things everybody's
24:22
trying to do in their own way. And everybody, I'm going to
24:25
guess doing this wants to develop their athletes to the
24:27
highest level and, and wants to work hard.
24:30
But you know, I feel like there is maybe a shift of like, you
24:33
know, optimizing performance or like being doing things really
24:37
in a really scientific smart way and making sure we're doing the
24:41
minimum effective dose or whatever it is.
24:42
Like is that bleeding into that or just like what, what, what,
24:46
What do you think? I think we're just kind of
24:48
scared to push the the fatigue needle a little bit.
24:51
You like people see so caught up in like I need them fresh for
24:54
support practice. Like I don't want to do too much
24:56
to affect the main thing, but it's going to limit the results
24:58
you're going to get like so. So I think what starts there,
25:01
like we're scared, like really push kids and put them in a
25:03
place that's risky, but that's where all the great results come
25:06
from. You know that training yourself,
25:08
I know that training myself, I got the best results I ever came
25:10
from is training hard as hell. That was like pretty risky.
25:14
But yeah, that's it. Like I think we the liability of
25:18
like, worst case scenario, scared to push that needle a
25:21
little bit. And then on the other end of the
25:24
spectrum, kind of like from an Olympic sports standpoint, maybe
25:26
your strength coach is stretched thin and you just can't give
25:29
your all to that program. You know, like that's probably a
25:31
big, big reason too. So yeah, I think it's those
25:35
those two things really just scared to push the needle of
25:38
training kids hard and getting them into a place that's pretty
25:41
risky, that's going to affect the main thing of sport.
25:45
But then on the other end, yeah, just coaches are probably
25:47
stretched thin and can't give their all.
25:49
That's interesting. You know, that makes me think.
25:50
I remember, remember I was having a conversation with Josh
25:54
Bonnetal. He was the strength coach for
25:56
men's basketball at Purdue a number of years ago.
25:58
He's he's kind of out now, but he was real big on Sprint
26:00
training with his basketball team.
26:01
I remember I was talking to him about that and like, he was
26:03
like, I don't remember at some point in the summer, I think it
26:06
was he's like, if we're not starting to get a few like
26:09
tweaks or like strains, like he's like, I'm OK with that
26:12
because I know we're kind of pushing the limits a little bit
26:14
where we need to. Like if we're all good, like we
26:16
may not be actually like moving the needle where we need to if
26:19
we're not kind of pushing that boundary a little bit.
26:21
I agree 100%, especially so for us, you kind of look at the same
26:24
idea of just we don't have like Agps or anything.
26:28
But when we do like look at trends, fatigue from our force
26:31
played data, there's these ebbs and flows, right?
26:33
But we want the ebbs and flows to be trending up.
26:35
But every year we want like come midpoint of the semester, in our
26:39
offseason, we're training really hard for six to six weeks.
26:41
We want to see the trend down. We want to see fatigue showing
26:44
its face. And then obviously we want to be
26:46
able to get out of that trend and like super comp up towards
26:49
the end of the semester. But yeah, same idea.
26:51
Yeah, like do that and we want to be, we want to be able to
26:54
quantify and like if know that we're training really hard right
26:57
on track, we should be at the same point every year.
26:59
And hopefully you can super comp out of that.
27:01
But yeah, I think people are scared of that.
27:04
You know, they kind of just want to see the perfectly straight
27:06
line slowly trend up instead of like the oh, but then the
27:09
aggressive super comp, the benefits you get out of training
27:12
really hard. Again, I think it's just the
27:14
liability because they're not training yourself.
27:16
You're training people that are under training, maybe people
27:18
that don't really enjoy training, people that don't
27:20
train well, though. It's hard to put those kids in a
27:22
position where it's risky and fatigue and you can maybe injure
27:26
a kid, you know? But that's where great results
27:28
come from. Yeah, yeah.
27:29
And I think, I think the a lot of the confidence to feel
27:35
comfortable pushing the needle like that is gonna come from the
27:39
confidence you have in your relationship with your support
27:42
staff probably. So for you, where you're right,
27:45
you're part of that staff, you've been there a couple of
27:47
years, like you're fully tied with the head coach in terms of
27:51
how you're operating, like working together.
27:53
Like you, you've had those conversations.
27:55
Like I'm, I'm going to assume she knows kind of OK, this is
27:58
like, I know this is when you're doing these things and when
28:01
we're going to maybe a little more beat up.
28:02
And like, like, I know those trends.
28:05
But like you're saying with maybe the the mid majors or, or
28:08
lower level schools that have more spread out strength coaches
28:11
and there were with multiple teams and they can't be as tied
28:15
into the staff. And then it's just like, OK,
28:17
maybe they tried to push and the head coaches like like, why am I
28:19
guys or girls like just destroyed right now?
28:21
Like what are you doing? And then they'd like, OK, they'd
28:24
be out his back off and try and do that or like, it's just a
28:26
revolving door strength coaches for that team.
28:28
And there's not those trends you can't establish that, you know,
28:31
or the other factory. Maybe you had a you're at a big
28:33
school now and it's like you're getting this chance at this big
28:36
school with this, you know, a big time head coach.
28:38
And it's like, I don't want to mess that up and push too much
28:41
and have an accident happen. And then the head coach is like,
28:44
done with me. Yeah, yeah, I think, well,
28:47
here's how like our just conversation is on the front
28:50
end. Her and I are very alike, which
28:52
makes this really easy, but I've just kind of like look, in our
28:55
spring, this is when we're kind of our offseason and our spring
28:59
and we play matches. I was like, I don't care about
29:01
the spring matches at all. Like I don't care, like we're
29:04
training hard. I don't care how wrecked they
29:06
are. And she's like like I was like,
29:08
look, I can guarantee at the end of the semester will be jumping
29:10
well, but as far as a middle of the semester, I could care less.
29:14
You know, like she's like that, that's fine.
29:16
You know, like it's long term, like November, so matters,
29:19
right? It's not February, March, April.
29:21
So it was an easy conversation because were like minded in that
29:24
sense, but I did it just like on the front, they look like these
29:26
kids are going to get wrecked. I don't care about the matches
29:28
like and she's like as long as they jump high, you know, when
29:31
it matters, that's all I care about.
29:32
It's like great. Not every relationship's like
29:34
that, right? Obviously I think it's the mid
29:36
age is a little tough. Yeah, it's kind of almost just
29:39
out of luck at that point. But I do at least check the box
29:42
of having the conversation and the why and get like give them a
29:47
thorough thought out reasoning. And but on the vice versa of
29:50
like, like you're saying with first time head coach and a good
29:54
program, just be true to yourself and do what you've got
29:56
to do to that point, which is probably training hard and not
30:00
like bubble wrapping kids, because they're also going to be
30:03
pissed when you don't get results because you're not
30:04
training hard enough, which is honestly, probably most of the
30:08
time that's the scenario is coaches don't think their kids
30:11
are training hard enough. And especially in the basketball
30:13
world, And you could probably attest to that a little more.
30:15
I think in the college setting, like these coaches want their
30:17
kids to be training are really hard.
30:19
So yeah, I bubble wrapping kids never goes well because one,
30:23
you're never going to get results or if you are, they're
30:25
OK, but they're not good enough. And then two, probably coach is
30:28
probably going to want them to train harder.
30:29
You know, I got that's always a certain area I've seen or run
30:32
into in the past. But it all just comes down to
30:35
having the conversation. You know, I'm being confident in
30:37
the conversation and you kind of know what you're talking about.
30:40
And there's some conflict. But conflict breeds like nothing
30:45
but good things. So embrace the conflict.
30:47
Yeah, Yeah, I know. I feel like that kind of ties
30:50
into something me and you have talked about a couple times
30:52
before where like you're not a fan of load management, right.
30:55
When it if we're talking about more so the practice standpoint
30:58
where you know where are trying to make them feel great all the
31:01
time. And, you know, I've, I've kind
31:02
of gotten, I've, I've, I've fallen into that sometimes too
31:05
much too. Then, you know, I think, I think
31:08
you make a great point where it's like, I think if, if we're
31:11
not pushing them there and and there are going to like you're
31:13
talking about, there's going to be those downward trend
31:16
sometimes if we're pushing, pushing, pushing, But we have to
31:18
get them to adapt to a level of stress.
31:21
So that when we get to the point, both from a training
31:25
standpoint, but then also from a practice standpoint down, you
31:28
know, for beginning of the season all the way to, you know,
31:31
conference tournament time, playoffs of time, whatever it is
31:34
like they can actually be their best at that time and not be
31:37
broken down throughout the stress of the year.
31:40
Because because we were trying to make them feel great all the
31:42
way in the preseason and the, you know, the non conference
31:46
season. And there's got to be a level of
31:48
stress and adaptation during that time.
31:50
So then we actually maybe we do pull back at the end and now
31:53
it's like, wow, now we can really go out there and be
31:56
great. Yeah, I think it's really just
31:59
comes out like, does the capacity meet the demand?
32:02
And like it's really easy to make somebody feel good.
32:05
But it's one thing to have the capacity to like handle well the
32:09
the demand of whatever it is, whether it's training or sport.
32:11
I mean, you cannot feel good but have the capacity and be all
32:14
right, I can make probably somebody feel good in 10 minutes
32:16
just like some BS soft tissue work or whatever and they feel
32:19
great. Doesn't mean they have the
32:20
capacity to handle it. So I think we kind of get lost
32:23
in that little bit of just make sure they feel good the day of
32:26
the game. OK, feeling good's easy, but you
32:28
can you actually handle what's being thrown at you?
32:30
Can you handle that stress? So if they're never exposed to
32:33
it until when it matters, that's never good.
32:34
You know, like nothing good is probably going to come of it,
32:37
whether it's injury or they're just like nervous system or
32:40
structurally just wrecked. So they can't train for the
32:42
following days. You know, like you're saying
32:44
when you get to tournament time, who recovers the fastest?
32:47
Like that's that's a big, that's a massive player.
32:49
People that recover the fastest are the ones that have the
32:51
capacity to handle the demands. So it's not as like structurally
32:55
and early taxing when you develop that capacity, obviously
32:58
in the offseason and the preseason and just constantly
33:00
exposing and exposing and exposing and adapting and
33:03
embracing like the Epsom flows, you know, But if you're always
33:07
just tracing like the do I, hey, how you feel like my, my, my
33:10
quads are a little sore. OK, we won't do this next time.
33:13
You know, And if you're constantly chasing that, like
33:15
Brett, like you're setting yourself up for a disaster of
33:18
something much more detrimental outside of just some like
33:21
structural soreness, like, you know, in September during like
33:25
the first week of 20 hours, everybody hurts in the first
33:28
week of 20 hours. Like you ain't nothing new That
33:31
that. That's where like people fall
33:32
into the trap a little bit is they got to push through that
33:35
stuff. You know, they got to embrace
33:37
that because that's where the adaptation comes from.
33:39
Keep throwing stress at them. The body, the body is crazy,
33:41
man. The body can adapt to so much
33:43
more than what we think. And I think it goes into the
33:45
back, like what we're saying, it kind of just scary to push that
33:47
needle of like, who knows what's to come?
33:49
Like, you know, sometimes maybe a kid might pull something.
33:51
It is what it is. It's the nature of like, again,
33:54
if you don't want to hurt yourself, don't get out of bed
33:56
in the morning, don't play sport.
33:57
There's always an inherent risk, regardless of how well you train
34:00
or how locked in you are with like your lifestyle.
34:02
It can always happen to anybody. But again, we can't control like
34:06
the the capacity of stress for throwing at them and they can
34:09
handle way more than you think. I think it's like the easiest
34:12
comparison is like marathon runners, ultra marathon runners.
34:14
That stuff is absolutely insane. And but it but it's, they just
34:20
keep exposing themselves and compounding a little more, a
34:23
little more. But I'm sure when they first
34:24
started running 2 miles sucked and they probably wrecked for
34:27
days after. But you know, a year into that,
34:30
2 miles is not even a warm up. Now you know, that's not good
34:33
enough for a warm up because they kept adapting, kept showing
34:36
up and kept embracing like the the negative things that come
34:39
with it. But yeah, capacity meets the
34:41
demand. Feeling good's easy.
34:43
I can foam roll a kid, put them in a sauna or whatever, pumping
34:46
full of electrolytes, and they'll feel all right.
34:48
But it doesn't mean they can handle the demand that they're
34:50
exposed to. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
34:52
And I think like you're saying, like the body can adapt to so
34:55
much. I think, I think the, I think
34:57
the trick is just not going from zero to 100 in one week.
35:00
That's when problems happen. But it's like if you just, if
35:03
you just continue to build it, build it, build it, build it
35:05
like you can build a such a high level.
35:07
Yeah, and that's just man, that's just common sense.
35:09
I like we should have to say that in this profession.
35:12
Like obviously don't throw like a like somebody that can't swim
35:15
into the 13 foot pool and help them figure it out.
35:18
You know, like baby step them into it.
35:19
But don't ever stop, you know, don't be complacent with
35:22
whatever point they get to like keep pushing the needle because
35:25
there's always more juice to squeeze.
35:26
So this this past season for y'all at SMU volleyball,
35:31
record-breaking year, huge success.
35:33
How do you how have you evaluated though and reflected
35:36
Despite that success, how, how can we make the program better
35:40
coming into this next year? Yeah, I mean, we didn't win a
35:43
national championship, so it's not good enough.
35:45
I mean, at the end of the day, like what else we made anybody
35:47
playing for is to put a ring on your finger.
35:50
So until you do that and you're not losing a match or set, it's
35:55
not good enough because you're not perfect because obviously we
35:57
know it's impossible to be perfect.
35:59
Affection is arbitrary, but you're always constantly pushing
36:03
that that until you know, I will never be complacent.
36:07
You know, we'll always keep evaluating until we win a
36:09
national championship. And even at that point we'll
36:11
keep evaluating. So for us, it's like what was
36:13
the limiting factor? What went went wrong that we can
36:17
control and how can we make sure that doesn't happen again?
36:19
So for in my space that I can kind of control.
36:23
I think when we got to NCAA tournament time, kids just like
36:27
their environments kind of took over.
36:29
Like the environmental stress is too much.
36:31
It's the end of the semester, You know, you have finals going
36:33
on, kids about to graduate. We had kids getting drafted,
36:36
kids trying to figure out now am I getting drafted?
36:38
How do I break my lease now? Like I got to find a place to
36:41
live. Like all these stressors outside
36:44
of just the sport itself kind of going coming into play and they
36:48
didn't know how to handle it. You know, like I think it became
36:51
too much because I'm not saying like we're fatigued or anything,
36:55
but those are controllable things.
36:57
I think we can help mitigate just to kind of put them in the
37:00
perfect scenario where they can hyper focus on what's in front
37:03
of them and that's playing. But they had too many things
37:05
that they had to focus on. But some of it's out of our
37:07
control. But I think we can better
37:09
prepare them on the front end and how to mitigate those
37:12
things. So right now this summer we have
37:16
like a full deal like accountability kind of system of
37:20
things where they can accumulate points for certain deals, but
37:23
it's more so to prep them to be from a lifestyle standpoint to
37:27
really establish high level like lifestyle things now.
37:32
So when we get to November, it's just normal part of their life
37:35
and hopefully it can mitigate some of those external stressors
37:38
and they know how to handle it a little better.
37:40
So it's like obviously simple things from like just learning
37:42
how to have high level nutrition on your own, but then also how
37:45
to manage stress, you know, how to how to like like simple
37:48
things like a sleeping routine, you know, what supplements to
37:51
take, What should your routine look like?
37:53
You know, getting outside and going on walks every day at
37:55
certain times a day, why you should go outside on these
37:57
certain times a day, How it affects like cortisol and how
38:00
that affects like your, your, your circadian rhythm.
38:03
Like all these things. We're just educating them a ton
38:06
and putting them in situations where like essentially they they
38:09
gain from it. You know, there there's some
38:10
reward. Who has the most points?
38:12
You know, how do you get the most points?
38:14
It's doing like these little holistic lifestyle factors,
38:16
things that yield points. So that's kind of like where
38:19
we're going through now. Obviously we're only in Week 2
38:20
of doing this, but I think it's going really well.
38:23
You know, it's kind of really cool to see like these kids that
38:25
get super body and I kind of put it on my Instagram story a
38:28
little bit like they're just like you get a point for every
38:30
meal. And if it's like a quality meal,
38:33
you get points for other things like being proactive in your
38:36
recovery and, and like any pre AB going to get extra work and
38:39
from a skill standpoint or training with me.
38:42
And then even like some, we have like themes each week.
38:45
So our first week was like going outside and going on a walk
38:47
every day. You know, this week the theme is
38:49
like screen time. And can you mitigate screen
38:51
time, making sure you're off your, your phone like an hour
38:54
before you go to sleep? Can you accumulate a daily
38:56
average under 3 hours? You know, you're getting points
38:58
for like these kind of things. Even we have like like a book
39:02
club kind of deal of like lifestyle nutrition books, like
39:05
you get points for reading these books throughout the summer, you
39:07
know, like it's just all kinds of things that prep them to
39:11
handle other demands that are going to come in August, but
39:13
more so in in November. So they know how to mitigate
39:16
stress on their own. You know, we can do so much in
39:18
the four hours, but it's it's when they're on their own,
39:21
that's where we have to be elite.
39:22
And that's kind of what we're trying to cultivate right now.
39:24
Yeah, that's a really cool idea. You know, one thing I feel like
39:27
I've seen a lot is when it's the beginning of an offseason that's
39:31
like, you know, summer at this point, you just like, OK,
39:34
there's less going on in life. There's, you know, there's,
39:37
there might be, you know, some classes or online class, but
39:39
it's not like the same as when school is going on.
39:41
There's not everybody on campus, There's not games.
39:44
Like it's a little easier to be fully bought into that stuff.
39:48
And then as it gets further and further along, especially once
39:51
we get into school in the season, like you're saying,
39:53
there's more and more stressors. As the stressors amplify, it
39:56
gets easier to push those good habits to the side or push those
40:01
things you've been, you were fully bought into the side.
40:04
How do, how do we, how do we get athletes to still lean into
40:09
those things that are actually going to help them?
40:12
When life does get crazy. Yeah, I think, I think there's a
40:15
couple of things think we so we have about 9 weeks.
40:18
You know, if you're doing like bought into this, I don't want
40:21
to say bought in by like more like you're compliant with like
40:24
what we're doing for 9 weeks. I think you almost start relying
40:27
on these things and you see the effects of not doing them.
40:31
Yeah. So when you do get into, you
40:33
know, the school year and like maybe you do have a bad meal and
40:36
you're like, I actually hated this and I don't feel great
40:38
after. I'm going to resort back to what
40:40
I've known for the past three months or vice versa, like from
40:43
a sleep routine. The first time you kind of get
40:45
out of that sleep routine and your quality of sleep isn't
40:48
great and then you wake up, maybe your day's not great and
40:50
you're like, OK, I, I can't, I don't want to do that again.
40:53
That's kind of what we're hoping for is they have to become, they
40:56
almost become reliant on these things and they can actually
40:59
feel the things that the, the quality things that these yield.
41:02
And then vice versa, the negative side of when you don't
41:05
do them because again, we're just trying to establish like a
41:07
lifestyle habits that they can maybe have for the rest of their
41:10
lives. And I think 8 weeks is plenty of
41:12
time to kind of establish that. And then on the other end of the
41:15
spectrum, I think we're kind of figuring this out, but our like
41:18
uniquely having success and being able to like cultivate
41:22
quality results over the past few years.
41:24
Our word holds a little more weight now.
41:27
And these kids really, really believe everything we tell them,
41:30
whether it's wrong or right. So on the opposite end, when I'm
41:33
like really preaching hard these same things every single day and
41:37
these kids are like taking my word for it and really believing
41:40
in it because they've seen like the past three years.
41:44
Yeah. I think it holds a little more
41:45
weight to compared to like first year coach, you know, like, hey,
41:48
we got to do XYZ and you have no credibility.
41:51
We, I think we have a little bit of credibility now and the kids
41:53
know it coming into it and that's why they came here.
41:56
And so, yeah, that's really the 2 ends.
41:58
You're kind of hoping you get into this routine and then when
42:00
you stray away from this routine, it sucks and you never
42:01
want to stray away from it again.
42:03
You can, you probably know that for yourself and your own
42:05
routines, like, and you don't do something, you kind of, you
42:07
don't feel great about it or it's always in the back of your
42:09
head. That's kind of what we're hoping
42:10
for with some of these things. I think the biggest thing we
42:13
want them to get out of it is like, obviously the quality
42:15
nutrition on their own for sure. But then like the sleep and like
42:18
having like a time in their day where they can like get busy,
42:21
work done. I think they can really come
42:23
away with those three things that'll make a lasting effect.
42:26
But yeah, one thing I've I'm personally discovering is like
42:29
how much weight my word holds now with these kids that it
42:32
didn't before because we have credibility.
42:35
Yeah. So, I mean, who knows, like some
42:36
of these kids, you know, how it is not going to go, I'm not
42:38
going to bat 1000 on this. Maybe I'm hoping for it batting
42:41
300 every year, compounding now with these kids that are kind of
42:44
cultivating the same thing over and over.
42:46
And hopefully it just kind of runs itself in the long term.
42:48
But yeah, you know, it's kind of this is the first time doing
42:51
this, so we'll see. What are the what are the
42:53
characteristics or qualities of the athletes you get that
42:58
maximize their development to the highest level?
43:01
That's a good one. Yeah, I think.
43:03
I think these kids that are kind of like old souls that have have
43:06
a lot of self and social awareness that aren't just like
43:11
they're very thought out and methodical and have their own
43:15
routines already, you know, and I kind of already have started
43:18
doing these things in high school, you know, those kids
43:21
because it makes it really easy because I don't have to worry
43:24
about spending a lot of time educating you on nutrition and
43:27
all these things because you're already kind of know it and
43:28
you're doing it already. So it makes that transition
43:31
really easy. So then we can go all in on
43:33
training vice versa. These kids that are like, no
43:36
social self-awareness, just going out and embracing
43:39
everything and just taking it day by day.
43:42
And then like I'm having to hyper focus on your lifestyle.
43:45
Vice versa. I can't focus too much on
43:47
training because the low hanging fruit for you is like you have
43:49
no idea how to manage your life. So those kids, it's tough
43:53
because I'm, I'm having to spend so much time elsewhere and not
43:56
training. But the kids that have are kind
43:59
of, like I said, kind of like an old soul.
44:00
You know, I have a ton of awareness and can kind of
44:03
distinguish right from wrong, know how to read the room and
44:06
really value the lifestyle things and understand the
44:09
importance. If those kids in the long term,
44:12
in my experience here have gotten the best results every
44:15
year. Don't get me wrong, and get a
44:16
genetic freak every now and then that just blows it out of the
44:19
water. But again, long term, the kids
44:21
have got it figured out outside of the four hours and we don't
44:24
have to worry about outside. The four hours are the ones that
44:26
get the best. Results.
44:27
Yeah. And it's funny, I feel like with
44:29
those kids that, you know, the old soldiers about that that do
44:32
have their own routines and do have things figured out a little
44:34
more like they need help the least, but they want it the most
44:38
still. And they're always seeking it
44:41
out. And it's like, hey, like, you're
44:42
actually pretty good. Yeah, cuz let's be real, those,
44:44
those kids are not the genetic freaks and aren't, aren't
44:48
blessed and they have to work really hard to get to the point
44:51
they're at. Vice versa, the kids that could
44:53
just rely on genetics and physicality to get them here and
44:55
don't have to do everything else right.
44:57
And it's not good. They've they've gotten away with
44:58
that. But now they get to this point
44:59
where everybody's probably a pretty much a genetic freak and
45:02
now you're your low hanging fruit is your lifestyle.
45:04
And that's really hard to change, you know.
45:07
Yeah, it's a risk I haven't really had yet.
45:12
A one of these quote UN quote genetic freaks have their
45:15
lifestyle locked in but all the all the non genetic freaks
45:18
usually have their lifestyle locked.
45:20
So when we get in the last couple questions that I'd like
45:23
to ask each guest here and in the first one is when you
45:26
realize you need to improve a personal skill set for for
45:30
coaching, how do you start to close that gap?
45:33
I just figure out who's the best at it and if I can talk to them
45:37
or observe them, mimic them in some capacity, knowing I'm not
45:41
an expert in that and seeking out the people that are experts
45:43
in it. And what makes them an expert in
45:45
finding multiple people that are experts and connecting the dots
45:48
of like the success, these clues.
45:50
What are all these people that are really good at this thing
45:52
doing across the board? And I should probably start
45:54
doing that. I mean, that's like the, for
45:56
example, going back to like what I was talking about trying to
45:58
establish these lifestyle kids I live in.
46:00
Like if you're not familiar with SMU, it's a very uppity, there's
46:04
certain tax bracket goes here if you're not an athlete.
46:07
And we're in Highland Park, Dallas, TX, a very, very
46:10
expensive neighborhood. So every morning like I'm
46:13
getting here like 5:00 AM, I am seeing almost 100 people plus
46:17
out five AM running, probably almost done with their runs.
46:20
It's a certain type of like person and like these, there's a
46:23
certain demographic of people here that are probably really
46:25
successful that are all doing these things, you know.
46:27
So again, success, these clues, these people's like morning
46:29
routines are on porn and they, they don't leave any excuses for
46:32
themselves. They're gonna get up and get it
46:34
done. And it's like little things like
46:36
that, like go find the people that are really successful and
46:39
what are they doing across the board.
46:41
So from a coaching standpoint, for example, nutrition, I'm
46:44
gonna go find what I think is who's getting the best results
46:46
in nutrition in the college setting and go figure out how to
46:49
do what they're doing. So yeah, having no ego, go find
46:51
the people that are good at it and figure out why they're good
46:54
at it. Last question I have is what?
46:57
What have I not asked you about in this conversation?
47:00
That's really important we talk about though.
47:02
It's good. That's a good one.
47:04
You know, I think I let's, I've been really blessed to do a lot
47:08
of these in the past year or so. A lot of them kind of lead down
47:11
the same path in some capacity or similar paths, but I don't,
47:16
it's not like a dire thing. I ever want to like, like I'm
47:20
please ask me about this. You know, I'm really like, I'm
47:22
super passionate about this. I think one thing I do like is
47:26
like, really, I've talked about this before is like the value
47:29
you put on yourself and that you can bring to a program.
47:32
Like how, how can you do that? Like how can you make yourself
47:35
feel invaluable? How can you make yourself
47:37
invaluable in somebody else's eyes and somebody's eyes that
47:40
matter, somebody that writes your checks, you know, like we,
47:43
you know how this profession is, man, it's a lot of people
47:45
complaining about low pay, long hours.
47:48
You make it what you want. You know, Apple, how how how do
47:51
I start that? You know, I think for me, how I
47:55
got to the point where I can, I feel like I'm invaluable in my
47:58
head coaches eyes, which which is the only person I think that
48:01
matters is I crossed the Gray area, you know, of training and
48:07
sport and having an opinion on the decision making in the
48:10
sport. For me, that's that's what it
48:13
was. You know, I crossed the Gray
48:14
area in the in somewhere like I probably don't need to have an
48:17
opinion on, but I let my opinion be heard and luckily it was
48:21
taking well, but now it's asked for and it's valued and luckily
48:25
we're all so decent and so hence all the good things that come
48:28
with that. But, you know, I think it's kind
48:31
of whatever that Gray area is for you as a strength coach in
48:34
your program, whether it's just nutrition, you know, crossing
48:36
that Gray area to start, that's always a good place to start to
48:39
make yourself a little more valuable or like we were talking
48:42
about earlier, decision making from a practice standpoint and
48:45
like planning those things out. That's a that's a good place to
48:47
start also. And just keep compounding those,
48:50
those things, you know, keep crossing the Gray area because
48:54
that's going to make you invaluable when you when you can
48:56
wear instead of 1 hat, 345 hats and be really good in 345 hats
49:02
and be irreplaceable. And that's where all the things
49:05
we complain about, that's that's how those things get fixed.
49:08
So a lot of complaining this field and, but at the end of the
49:12
day, you control it. You control your position, you
49:15
control you make it what you want.
49:17
And I think if you want to stay in this field and last, you got
49:20
to cross the grave and have conflict with head coaches and
49:24
let your opinion be heard, you know that that's it.
49:27
Don't be scared to share your opinion with a coach about
49:29
something because if anything is going to show them that they
49:31
care and they care about your their program and winning and
49:35
losing, which is all that matters.
49:36
But if you never share your opinion and you never challenge
49:39
the thinking, it's hard for a coach to think that you care
49:41
about their program when you never try to push the needle.
49:44
So that's my little spiel on that, I guess.
49:47
Yeah, no, that was good. This has been awesome.
49:49
You know, I one thing I really respect batches.
49:52
I feel like the way you you lean into who you are and your
49:57
strengths and you don't try and be anyone else or do things
50:01
other way people do. Like you're doing things how you
50:03
know is going to help your program and help what you're
50:06
doing. And I respect that a lot because
50:07
I think it's easy to put a lot of ways, but I think you do a
50:09
great job of that. Yeah.
50:10
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it works here, but
50:13
it may not. It may not work for a basketball
50:15
program, a football program, maybe another volleyball
50:17
program. It's just, you know, I've been
50:19
lucky in my situation to be able to do what we're doing.
50:21
It's doing OK, but it's not perfect.
50:23
But yeah, thank you for that. And this is always enjoyable.
50:27
I always love talking with you. It's always a good talk.
50:29
You always challenge my my thinking.
50:32
Well, man, if if people wanted to see more of what you're
50:35
putting out, and I know, I know you got some program too, and
50:37
lots of good stuff on social media, like where can people
50:39
find out more about what you're doing?
50:40
Yeah, Instagram's the only place I'm really active on.
50:43
Hopefully I can get a little more interactive and some other
50:46
things this summer that I have time.
50:48
But yeah, just Instagram at Anthony Cockrell where I post
50:51
most all of what we're doing got nothing to hide.
50:53
And you can go get his his program to get on some some some
50:57
eccentrics. Yeah, yeah, actually complete
51:00
transparency. It's our full like 15 week
51:03
offseason program. The exact same thing we did
51:05
here. I get nothing to hide, but not
51:08
forever, yeah? I've done, I've done it some.
51:09
It's great. I've actually got my wife doing
51:12
it some too. She likes it.
51:13
So. Oh.
51:14
Yeah, that's awesome. All right, man, I appreciate you
51:17
being here. Have a great rest of your day
51:18
man. Yeah.
51:19
Thanks, John. Always a pleasure.