Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 17 - Answering Kink Questions and Discovering Dominance with Zach Moore

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Ep 17 - Answering Kink Questions and Discovering Dominance with Zach Moore · The Kink Consultant

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It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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to it. Hello and welcome to this week's
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episode of The King Consultant. I am excited to have this week's
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guest on. We have Zachary Moore, my former
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personal trainer from when I lived in New York City.
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The reason I asked you on is because you piqued my interest.
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When I was working out with you years ago, you could not totally
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dove into dating. You were single.
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For a little bit of context. So I recently got separated.
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Oh, congratulations. Thank you and very amicable.
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My ex were super cool. We're cool, you know, no drama,
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no nothing. We have our sons, we still
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parent together all the time. But for me, as I've been getting
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back out into the dating world, it was, you know, one I haven't
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dated. And like I sound insane for
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saying this, but for almost 15 years.
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That is a long time. Did Tinder even exist when you
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were single last? Nothing existed so it goes to
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show my knowledge. So I literally never used the
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app for anything. And like when my my now ex and I
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got together like I was 25 she was 23.
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We had a good time. There was a lot of good stuff
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that was there both, you know, mentally, physically and
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emotionally. And let's just put, I'm excited
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to get back out into the into the world and, and see what's
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up. And you recommended an app that
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you thought might be a good app for me field as I got into the
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app now you'd recommended it for a little bit of a different
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reason. And you were right.
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And I listened and that's why I did it for my situation.
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Again, for context, I am very busy throughout the week.
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I leave my ex's place at around 8:30 once my son is asleep.
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So my son is my priority. I'm not changing any of that
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stuff. So I don't have a ton of time to
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date during the week. And what I'm looking for is
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something that's, you know, a little more, I think casual
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would be the right term, right? I'm not looking to date anybody
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seriously. It's not going to be the thing
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where I'm like trying to get married again.
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And what you had mentioned was you're like, you know, there's
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this app field and it started as a primarily as a kink app, but
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you can also find individuals who are a little more casual in
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nature. And as I began to explore a more
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for the casual aspect of it, started exploring more the kink
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aspect of it too. And I have a friend of mine and
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he's gay and he had something, he had said something really
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interesting because he had been kind of through a similar
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situation. And he said when I got out of my
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long term relationship, I realized that I did have a cake.
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And as I wanted to explore other people's cakes and then figure
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out what mine happened to be if it was in there.
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And I remember him saying that. And I was like, you know, I
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think there's kind of a dual aspect to this exploration that
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might be going on, which is 1 just finding something that's a
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little bit more, you know, casual in all of the right
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respectful ways. This isn't supposed to be mean
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or, or dirty in a bad way. You know, I, I remember
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listening to your stories and I listen to your podcast and I
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think I'm, I'm deeply intrigued by the world of kink, if I'm
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being honest. And I'm very eager to explore it
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and see what I like and don't like.
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And I have some ideas. But as I was going through the
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app, I was like, oh, I got to talk to my girl Amanda.
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There's a lot of stuff here I don't know and I need some
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guidance so. Did you know you were kinky?
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Yeah, there's, I've always known that there's a little bit of
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something in there, right? What form does that something
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take and how far will I explore it?
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And I'd say I've barely scratched the surface on it,
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right? But I think I have some ideas in
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terms of what that might look like.
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When you text me about this, I felt like, how had we never
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talked about this before? I don't think I never asked, are
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you kinky? But I also think I had a
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suspicion that you were for two reasons.
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Number one, you were very concerned with the state of my
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nails and how they'd look when I show up.
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And that's a very particular thing.
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And I was like, it's a certain type of energy, right?
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And I was like, it's not weird, it's just in particular.
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And I was like, OK, he has strong opinions.
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That doesn't mean you're kinky. But paired with piece of
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evidence #2 I don't remember if you wanted me to work out in
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between or, or stretch or definitely use a foam roller,
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which I was never doing. And I'd show up and you'd ask
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like, did you stretch? And I'd be like, I didn't have
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time. And you threatened to punish me
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and I stopped you mid sentence. It's like, I enjoy that in my
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personal life. We're not bringing that here.
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The way you handled that, You're like, OK.
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And just no more questions. You're like, all right, we won't
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do it. I was like, I think this
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person's dominant and we talked about so much.
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I'm shocked we never did this so.
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I think part of the reason why we didn't talk about it was
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like, wasn't having any sex at the time.
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All we were talking about was like, Oh yeah, I got to figure
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out how I do certain aspects of my business so I can make more
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money, so I can get my own place.
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How do I navigate this situation in the best possible way so I
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can remain a good parent and then get to a point where maybe
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I get laid before I die of old age again?
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That would be fantastic. We talked a lot about you
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getting laid eventually. But again, like I was really
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just focused on like I am genuinely cool with my ex.
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We are cool. But when you are in a
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relationship that needed to be over a long time, time ago when
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I at least when I got out, I just needed some time to chill.
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I also just needed some time to get a couple of things together
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that I had going on. There was a kind of a process
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got on the apps and I needed to feel that out, get a better
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sense of how all that stuff worked.
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Would you identify as dominant? Yeah.
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OK. Did you know that going into
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dating? Yeah.
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And I think I can tell you a really funny story.
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So my ex and I, and if anybody ever sees this, who knows us
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this, this might get us in trouble.
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But so we're messing around a little bit and we were trying a
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couple different things. I remember when we kind of
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flipped it a little bit and I was a little more on the sub
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side. And the first, the first I was
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like, hey, just like fucking tie me up.
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Let's see how this goes. And like, she's tying me up and
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we get like part of the way through and I almost had like a
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mild panic attack. I was like, get that fucking
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shit off me. Get it off.
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I don't like this. Like, what is wrong with you?
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And I was like, like, stop. We reverse roles and everything
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was great. I want to 1st.
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I appreciate you for trying, good for you.
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But also it's not easy. It's not simple to just be tied
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up. I think a lot of people think,
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oh the sub is being lazy, all they have to do is lie there.
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But like, there's a mental process you have to go through.
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It was very interesting For me, it was.
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I did not expect to react as viscerally as I did.
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I felt incredibly exposed. It was one of the vulnerable.
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Yeah. And, like, not in a good way.
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It felt very exposed. Like it was uncomfortable.
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I felt very powerless. And there you go.
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It was one of the least erotic moments I've had.
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You know what I mean? Where I was.
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Yeah. Like, this just wasn't for me.
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But that's why you tried. I'm glad you tried.
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Did you really think she was going to hit you?
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I asked that because paranormal sometimes sets in even with a
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trusted partner, of realizing Oh no.
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No, she was very trustworthy. And then she wouldn't have done
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anything like that. So I remember one time, this is
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another funny story. We were having sex.
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She was on top and like, we're really in it.
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And I was like, yeah, just fucking slap me.
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And my ex was strong and she slapped me.
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She slapped the sex right out of me.
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I was just, oh, and I was just like, what the fuck?
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And she was like, yeah, you'd like that.
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You want it again? And then she slapped the shit
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out of me again. And I was like, I literally got
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slapped back to reality. And I, I remember this to this
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day, I can tell you all like exactly where all the things in
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the room were and everything. And I was just like, all right,
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man, just keep you erected. Finish this, get out of here and
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never do that. Finish the mission and then be
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done. We're going to finish the stop,
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we're going to finish strong and then we're going to get our shit
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together. Damn, This is why negotiation is
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important beforehand, because we could have avoided this
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situation for you. That was in the moment and that
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was a request for me, and I stand by my request.
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It was awesome. Some people are into it,
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obviously not you all. Right, so then that is a
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question then, because I'm going on a date with this girl on
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Friday and on on her field AB she talked about one of the
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things was primal. If you didn't phrase it, I'm
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into primal. It was just in parentheses like
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things I meant to MFM you know what that is primal.
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Some other things I kind of understood what primal meant.
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I mean, I assume I understand and there's a difference between
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assuming and knowing so. I'm glad you approached it that
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way, but based on the stories you've shared so far, I think
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that you're going to be fine. It's a type of animalistic type
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of connection. There's the predator and prey.
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Do you know which one you are? OK.
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There you go. I know which one you are too.
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OK. It can range from anything from
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just like nibbling, growling, to being pretty rough in the
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bedroom. I mean, there are primal play
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parties where literally people are the prey and they go running
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and a group of predators run after them and get them.
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Like, that's the range it can be.
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Like we've started from nibbling on the ear in bed to actually
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going to a party where you're running for your life in the
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woods. With regards to that second
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situation, this is just kind of a question I have in general
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too, about about certain aspects of kink.
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And then we can get into this in terms of like, especially if
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it's more role play, bondage play, that kind of stuff.
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But again, with minimal experience in this, how does
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that go from the kink aspect to when it becomes more of the
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sexual aspect? That's a really good question
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and one that I jokingly say please never ask me because it's
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sort of a duality. There is the king side and for
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some people it can just be the kink and then other people it
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needs to include sex or be sex. So for some people they're
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together as one. For other people it's two
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separate things. For the ones who would say it's
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all one for them, it starts almost like foreplay.
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Kink is their foreplay, what they need and it can lead into
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sex. Where would you fall in that
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spectrum? Question.
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I mean, my aspects of King when they come out are more during
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sex and it's more just more of a dominant, more kind of more
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physically imposing aspect to it.
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Again, nothing that's mean or painful in a bad way, but it's
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from certain positions to certain intensities to just even
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the way I'm holding the person, certain things that line up in
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that aspect of it. Which can primal, but also
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there's the bondage side. You It sounded like you enjoy
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tying people up. I haven't done it enough to have
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enough data to know whether it's for me or not, but I have
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enjoyed it in my unlimited experience with.
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It Are you exclusively dating kinky right now or are you open
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to vanilla partners as well? I'm open to the spectrum.
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I've been much more drawn to trying to find somebody who has
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a similar situation as I do in terms of like their times and
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their logistics, with the caveat that understanding that that the
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sexual aspect of this is going to be important.
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That's the point for you right now.
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Another point, I am also somebody who's very big on like
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chemistry and vibe, right? Like if I don't have a good vibe
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with somebody, like I, I want to get along with the person.
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I care a lot about the mental and emotional attractions of
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that person as well. And if that's not there, I don't
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usually have like a strong sexual attraction to the
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individual, regardless of what they look like.
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OK, but it starts with looks because you're swiping on an
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app. Yes, 100%, which is also one of
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the reasons why I'm trying to, I mean, it's 2° outside.
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We're in New York right now. It's but it's also one of the
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reasons why I've been trying to force myself to go out because
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I, I don't know about you, but like when I'm out, like you
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really get a sense of somebody'd vibe.
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And for me, again, like I can meet somebody where let's just
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say aesthetically, like maybe you wouldn't be the most drawn
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to this person on an app, but you meet them in real life and
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you see the way they move, you see the way they talk.
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You kind of get a feel for their energy and you're like, this is
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dope, this is cool. I agree with that, but I
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actually try and flip that of just when I'm out and about
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anyway. I look at someone and think if I
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saw them in on an app I probably wouldn't swipe on them.
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Let me remember that look and like give someone a second
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chance on the app because that's how I'm meeting people.
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It's a great, but I'm also not going to go.
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I'm not 99% of the time. I'm not going to be the person
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hitting on someone in public. I don't know.
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Are you going up to people? I have no problem doing it like,
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or I would go up to somebody and, like, we'll have some
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butterflies in my stomach. Yeah, well, I need a second to,
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like, get myself grounded. Yeah.
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But I'm fine going up to somebody and just making
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conversation. My experience has been just be,
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you know, I know this is shocking, but like, listen and
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like have an actual human conversation with somebody and
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you're usually going to be okay. And I think my experience has
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been most women just want to make sure you're not a fucking
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creep. And then at least they'll listen
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to you for a minute. And then if you give it like,
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come on, man, like just make some conversation.
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For me, I'm specifically looking for someone kinky.
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Like I can't date vanilla and that is something I realized
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after 2 failed long term relationships.
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Yeah. So so for you then you need like
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would you say significant kink or and when you say vanilla,
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that doesn't necessarily mean bland, that just means non kinky
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to you, correct. Exactly, there is nothing wrong
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with vanilla for a lot of people.
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It's not bland. I've had very passionate vanilla
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sex, but if I'm not with someone who is going to tie me up or
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honestly say some pretty fucked up shit, I'm probably not going
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to long term be excited by them. It's an important point again
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for me because it's as I'm embarking upon this, you know, I
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have ideas of where I may fall, but I may not be kinky enough to
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meet someone else's. Yeah, well, that brings up a
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good point. Has anyone out the gate when
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you've messaged them, brought up their own kinks and been like,
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are you into this? Can you be into this?
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I messaged with this one girl, beautiful, beautiful chick who
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was very into rope play, which I knew was like a lot of like kind
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of heavy role play. And she was like, how's your
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experience with this? And I was up front, I was like,
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listen, I don't have a ton of experience with this, but I am a
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eager and fantastic student and I'm ready to learn if you're
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ready to teach. And she was very nice.
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She was like, it's a great attitude but I need a pro.
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With rope it takes years. I assume she means shibari,
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which is it's almost, it's an art form almost of tying people
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up and it takes years of experience.
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I took a Class A few months ago, a shibari class.
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My attempt was awful. Like it was my first attempt but
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it just showed like oh wow. I mean, this is like an actual
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compliment. Like some of those photos that
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she had, she looks like genuinely talented at the things
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that she was doing. Like she had worked on her
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craft. She knew it was up.
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Well, was she tied up or doing the tying?
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She was tied up. So getting into those positions
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would actually be really difficult.
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I'm actually talking to someone right now and I was like, I'm
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not very flexible. He's like, I think you should
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start stretching. So I'm stretching.
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OK, so you have the rope person. You have the primal person who
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put on their profile that they were primal.
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What else are you seeing out there that piques your interest?
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Yeah, so I connected with this one girl who was a little bit on
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the younger side. The big thing that she was
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looking for was daddy's little girl and I would love to.
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Dominant. Hold on.
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Yeah, we're looking for dominant Daddy little girl DDLG.
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DLG Yeah. I have.
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Before you say one more word, I have to ask you, how did she
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bring that up? It's in her profile.
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So she puts it out there. As soon as we matched, I looked
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it up, obviously. You say obviously, but let me
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tell you from the opposite side where I put emoji code in and
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different. Not everyone looks it up.
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Interesting. No, I immediately looked it up.
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I mean, at first I was like, whoa, whoa, that seems real
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weird. And then I dove into it a lot
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more and I was like, Oh no, this seems super cool.
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As a dad, you're gut reaction was like that seems weird
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because you're a dad. Yeah, 100%.
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Coming at this without having any knowledge in terms of of
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what it was. I was like, oh, is there an
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incestuous aspect to this? Is there going to be something
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weird where she wants me to like, pretend I'm her father
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while we're having sex? God I would not be comfortable
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with for a lot of reasons. Thank you for bringing those
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things up though, that's really good because those are really
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common misconceptions that I forget about when I'm this deep
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into kink in general. You're right, people do think
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that. And you're right because like,
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I'm not that deep into this world, right?
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So for me, what's interesting is like learning some of these
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aspects. And then as I did a little more
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research on that, it actually seemed it's going to sound
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weird, but almost like a very kind kind of Dom sub.
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Caretaker role. So I think some of my questions
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for you and I actually asked this to her to master, I was
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like, hey, if you're DDLG component of this, this is this
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more in the bedroom? Is this more out of the bedroom?
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Do they blend together? I think I said I'd love to know
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more about how this works for you so I can make sure that I'm
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delivering this in a way that works best for you.
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But in your experience, is that more out of the bedroom?
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In the bedroom, I'm assuming it kind of blends together with the
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two. So last week's episode, I was
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actually talking to someone who's starting a party in Vegas
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called 30 Daddy's Party room in Vegas, right?
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We talked about there's such a big spectrum with this type of
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play. So even if it's DDLG, it can be
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in the bedroom, it can be 24/7. It doesn't always have to
16:48
include any type of age play. Some people just like the term
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daddy as an honorific and they like being called a little girl,
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but in their head, there's no age play involved at all.
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And for people like that, it might be more just in the
17:00
bedroom as opposed to outside. And for very few people is it
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24/7 all the time? But sometimes that dynamic
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exists throughout the relationship.
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So it's sort of zipped in and out of it.
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There's never a direct answer to a question like that because
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it's like, it depends on the people.
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So do you know if she was into the age play aspect of it?
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Yeah, because she specifically put it on her profile and the
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girl I'm going out on Friday specifically put in her profile
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age play. So can we dive into that a
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little bit more? Can you explain some of those
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dynamics? Yeah.
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So age play can exist where someone is basically just
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playing an age or in their head, they are interested in playing
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an age that isn't their own age, right.
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And it doesn't mean that they're regressing necessarily back to
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that age, but they can enjoy, they indulge in playing like a
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child. And for some people, that's
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actually being it. It can be any age, usually
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younger than what they actually are.
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I've never heard of anyone playing anyone older.
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But for example, there are like there's mids, middles who are
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maybe more of those teenage years.
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There's a whole chart of different ages of what people
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are, but it's different for everyone.
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Some people say they're into age play and they're really into
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being super young, like toddler level.
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Am I dressed like someone who's a toddler?
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I have never once talked about this on Instagram or TikTok
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because it is the most divisive thing ever.
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There's a strong element within me that I can feel is like kind
18:24
of resistant, uncomfortable with this, my dirty size.
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Like hey, you want to pretend you're 16 fucking was partying.
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You want to go any lower than that like.
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And that's totally fair. It's about your own comfort
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level, which you know, it's just really difficult than when I'm
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trying to explain it. There are people who, I don't
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know if you've ever heard of this, but ABDL adult baby diaper
18:44
lover. There are people who love to be
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in diapers. Sometimes they just like to wear
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them, sometimes they like to use them and be changed.
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It's such a range. And then there's there are a lot
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of arguments online about age play and whether it's regression
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or just play. When I was diving into and I
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started reading more about this, I was also candidly a little bit
19:03
concerned if there would be a psychological component there.
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That was, How do I phrase this? I was concerned about some
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psychological instability and about some stuff that might be
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psychologically unhealthy. In order for me to like to find
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any sort of arousal, it has to come from a place of comfort,
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obviously. Like the idea of doing
19:20
something. If the person was like, oh, I
19:23
want to pretend I'm like 8 or 9, I would be so zero.
19:27
I can't do that right? Age play.
19:29
Here's where it's at. Age play is pretending to be a
19:33
certain age, and you do not have to be OK with someone pretending
19:37
to be 6 years old. That is not your thing.
19:39
It sounds like you're OK with someone pretending to be a
19:41
teenager like in high school. Sounds like the age maybe you
19:44
started being sexually active you're kind of OK with and then.
19:47
Let's just so anybody watching, we're talking like 1617, OK?
19:51
And and for the record, for anybody watching, I'm not having
19:54
sex with any 16 or 17 year olds. The other thing?
19:57
Not happening either. Thank you for like saying these
19:59
things because age play is not actually having sex with anyone
20:02
who is underage, it's people. Tending to be those ages and
20:07
there is no shame in any different age.
20:09
It's about our own personal comfort level.
20:11
That said, one of the things I want to highlight that this
20:13
definitely isn't is regression. This isn't someone, when you're
20:16
doing age play, you're really just like I'm playing pretend,
20:19
sort of like I'm pretending to be the handyman here to fix your
20:22
fridge. You're not actually going to
20:24
take a fridge apart during that role play.
20:27
With age play, you're just pretending to be a different age
20:30
than you are. And it's sort of this elaborate
20:32
role play. It is not the person regressing
20:36
back to that age and really losing themselves in that as a
20:40
like to cope with things. It's not.
20:42
OK. That is therapy related, not
20:45
role play. So you really, when you're
20:46
talking age play, you want to make sure you're in that role
20:48
play space. Did this person seem like they
20:51
wanted to be in the role play space?
20:53
Yeah, I don't know yet. Pulling it up right now.
20:55
I said I'd love, I'd love to learn more about what you're
20:57
looking for here and see if we have a good vibe slash
21:00
chemistry. And she was like, you know what?
21:02
I'm in terms of what I'm looking for.
21:03
It's pretty much exactly what I wrote in my bio to be honest.
21:06
Dating without intention based on what feels right with that
21:09
person. Ideally looking for something
21:10
long term but don't mind taking my time and I've never been big
21:14
on life's roles, timelines and that kind of stuff.
21:17
She didn't expand into any of her personal kinks on her
21:21
profile, she said. I'm open to explore but also
21:23
roughly know what I do like EG age gap.
21:27
So oh shit, she's at age gap, not age play, so that's maybe
21:30
different. Praise primal bondage, MFM and
21:34
what I don't like, for example, punishment pain for pain sake.
21:37
Not quite unexperienced, but some of these acronyms could be
21:40
indecipherable, those sort of thing.
21:42
This other girl, yeah, this one, this other.
21:44
The 1st girl, the 21 year old said mostly into DDLG and age
21:47
play. So a little different than age
21:49
gap I guess. Yeah, so that was the younger
21:52
girl who sort of stopped talking to as much, but yeah.
21:54
And you don't know details of how, what age range?
21:57
No, I really want to find that chart.
21:59
My girlfriend sent it to me because similar to you, I'm
22:03
like, yeah, I can play 16, but that's pretty much as low as it
22:06
goes. And even then it's it's more the
22:07
fact that I like a schoolgirl outfit.
22:09
Back when I was worked at the dungeon, that schoolgirl outfit
22:12
was a big money maker. But OK age play and just while
22:16
we're on it can come in different ranges.
22:18
You've already identified your cutoff point of like, oh, and
22:21
that happens. You can be like, I don't really
22:23
age play below 16. Sometimes younger people that
22:25
are if someone wants to age play younger, they might enjoy
22:28
stuffed animals, coloring, arts and crafts, being like read a
22:32
bedtime story and put to bed. It's arranged, it's just not for
22:35
you. I can't do anything that I would
22:38
do with my son. That's not going to fly.
22:41
OK, that's a really good boundary.
22:43
And that is something that I always wonder about with parents
22:47
because I'm dating to I date people who have kids.
22:50
And that boundary for some people exists of like, no, you
22:52
cannot call me daddy. I cannot take that.
22:55
And then other people are more OK with it.
22:58
Daddy Capone? I don't.
22:59
I don't know. I wonder if it's also different
23:02
because you have a son A. Million percent.
23:04
I thought about that. I was like, if I have a daughter
23:05
and I heard that, I'd probably be like Nope.
23:07
Yeah, it just would change, I think.
23:08
That carries a little more intensity in terms of the
23:12
position. It doesn't have to, though.
23:14
Honorifics can be made-up, and they're not just for the
23:15
dominant role. Baby girl, has anything really
23:18
thrown you in the dating world right now?
23:21
No, not yet. I haven't been out of it.
23:23
Be honest with you. I haven't gotten the reps in yet
23:25
where I'm like shit after me a little.
23:26
Bit now I'm wondering, I really like to test different things
23:29
out on my dating profiles, like saying different things, putting
23:32
stuff in there. You sound really open minded
23:34
about the DDLG thing and I'm like are people more open to
23:37
that then I think I don't have anything on my profile like that
23:40
because I like the honorific of daddy.
23:42
I want someone I call daddy. I like the caretaker Dom roll
23:47
but not the H play side of it. Oh, quick question with regards
23:50
to that aftercare. What normally comes in aftercare
23:52
for a DDLG component? Oh, really good question.
23:55
Aftercare once again, individual to everyone, you got to ask the
23:59
person beforehand, right? But for a lot of people who the
24:02
littles thing, it's a really good question because they might
24:07
want to be called good girl both in it and during aftercare.
24:11
They might want aftercare within the roles and within the
24:13
dynamic. They might want it after outside
24:15
of the dynamic, depending on if it's bedroom only.
24:18
So someone said that they're not into punishment, right, and not
24:21
into physical pain. So they probably wouldn't be
24:23
into spanking or any corporal punishment because of that.
24:27
The aftercare probably wouldn't need to be very physical on any
24:30
part of their body. It would much more need to be
24:32
like you did a great job, words of affirmation you'd ask them
24:36
and cuddling. I feel like cuddling is always a
24:38
good aftercare for people who want it.
24:41
It's just aftercare is one of those things you have to discuss
24:43
and negotiate to like. For example, my version of
24:46
aftercare is always like, you need to text me the next day.
24:49
I need to have access to be able to text you the next day because
24:52
if I'm dropping, I know the one thing that will calm me down.
24:55
Dropping meaning when you're in play like that, you can reach
24:58
subspace and have this elated experience and then what goes up
25:01
must come down. I feel sad the next day.
25:03
I want to be able to talk to the person.
25:04
You just want to be there because you've provided such a
25:07
caretaking, supportive role before.
25:09
It's how can you best be there for them?
25:11
Honestly, the days after play happens.
25:14
That makes sense. Yeah.
25:15
That answer is going to apply to every single type of play.
25:18
Yeah, that's kind of what I figured.
25:19
I just wasn't sure if there was anything.
25:21
Yeah, OK, that's what I figured. But you also get aftercare and
25:23
should advocate for that too because you don't know what it's
25:26
going to be like afterwards. You might feel because honestly
25:28
you might feel gross the next day.
25:30
I have had doms or people in the top position tell me that they
25:33
feel guilty, disgusting, perverted for what they did or
25:37
what they were interested in. There can be a cycle of shame,
25:40
like really enjoying yourself and then feeling ashamed and
25:43
aftercare and being assured that it was really enjoyable for
25:46
everyone can be helpful too. I.
25:48
Get it? Are you sleep with someone on
25:50
the first date type of person? Yeah, I'm hoping for it for
25:52
sure. I mean, it's interesting though,
25:53
because like there is a part of me because again, this is the
25:55
first, the first date I will have gone on in 15 years.
25:58
I'm kind of, I have like two sides to me right now.
26:01
One which is the yeah, like let's fucking go.
26:04
And the other part of me did is also just like, I'd really like
26:07
to go have two drinks and then just get the fuck out of there
26:11
and just kind of like easing myself back in.
26:13
But I'm just going to completely play it by what's the vibe.
26:17
You really like talking to people.
26:18
I can't imagine you just going on a date for two drinks.
26:21
Yeah, like I'm, let's put it this way, I'm going on a date
26:24
and hopefully we're going to have an absolute blast from
26:26
wherever the night goes. The night goes, right?
26:28
If I sit down with this person and I'm like, oh, this isn't
26:31
fun, then I'll just, you know, excuse myself after a couple
26:35
drinks and just go home. Yeah, I think in a good way.
26:37
I'm not putting any pressure on myself for anything to turn out
26:40
any which way. Right.
26:42
And I'm kind of curious about your opinion on this.
26:44
Like, there is a part of me that is assuming like, OK, I'm
26:46
meeting this person through Field.
26:48
There's a different vibe that comes with Field that I think
26:51
than there does for like Hinge or maybe some of the other apps
26:55
Maybe I'm wrong. Again, I don't have enough
26:56
experience to draw upon Red. I don't have enough data points
26:59
where I'm like, is there more of an expectation?
27:02
But like both ways where it's like, hey, we met on this app.
27:05
This is what this is. She just told like she has her
27:07
initials up as her profile. And like she just like she was
27:11
like, Oh my gosh, I forgot to tell you my name, blah, blah,
27:13
blah. Like in our literal last text
27:14
after we've been texting for like a week.
27:15
And I was like, yeah, setting a date without knowing someone's
27:18
name on field kind of feels on brand, you know what I mean?
27:20
It's like kind of like cover. You can make up a fake name on
27:23
there I assume. Are you Zach on there?
27:26
Yeah, OK. I gave you a full name, address,
27:28
security number. Just did the whole thing.
27:29
Wait in your head when you were going to text or we were just
27:31
like I'm going to text like CJ or whatever initial she used?
27:35
I just figured that wasn't her name, it was else it was 2
27:38
letters, 3. Those are initials.
27:39
All right? Figure everybody on field was
27:41
like named like TJ and like LC. And I was like, yeah.
27:46
I don't just want their name, I want their astrological chart
27:48
which just like their. I haven't been on a date in 15
27:52
fucking years. You know how happy someone was,
27:54
Like, hey, you want to go get a drink?
27:55
And I was like, yeah. OK, that's fair.
27:57
Wait, did she ask you for the? Drink.
27:59
No, I asked. I actually really was thinking
28:01
about this where I was like the dynamics of who's asking who and
28:04
who's planning and doing all these things are going to be
28:06
more important on this app than I think in another one.
28:08
They'd be important anywhere, but especially in my opinion,
28:11
like if I'm if the Dom sub kind of dynamic exists in a much
28:16
higher prevalence here. My intuition told me it was
28:19
important to you have certain people asking certain people
28:22
out. And I even asked her too, like
28:24
in this thing. I was like, all right, cool.
28:26
Like so sounds like we're going on a date.
28:28
Like you ready for a date? She was like, absolutely.
28:30
So then I asked her too. I was like, all right, so
28:32
question, should I start planning?
28:34
And then I asked her. I was like, hey, do you want me
28:37
to take the lead on making the plans, or would you prefer if we
28:41
kind of figured this out together?
28:42
And I literally said, like, field can be a particular place.
28:45
And she was like, oh, no, no, I do a lot of planning.
28:47
I'd be, I'm immensely attracted to a guy who takes the reins.
28:50
And I was like, done. I got it.
28:51
That's a really common request. It's for the guy to plan a date
28:56
and prove that they can. In a world where now everyone's
28:59
making it. Like if men and women are
29:01
making, they're not making the exact same amount of money, but
29:03
everyone's in the professional space.
29:05
You got to set yourself the part somehow.
29:07
Being the planner is a big deal. So I like that you did that.
29:11
Again, can't blanket statement it because I won't even go on
29:14
Bumble because you make the first message or make the first
29:17
move as a woman. They changed it I think, but I'm
29:20
like, I'm not doing that. I want someone to make the first
29:22
move with me unless I switch. And sometimes if I see a
29:26
submissive profile, I'm like, OK, I will make that move.
29:29
You're spot on. These things matter.
29:31
There's no pretending that they don't.
29:32
I guess for some people it might not, but it does matter.
29:35
It's same reason I probably won't go talk to someone one in
29:37
public, like I won't make the first move no matter the app.
29:40
People are going to appreciate that on Hinge field no matter
29:44
what it is. I actually think people are more
29:47
open minded to a very just casual let's get drinks or
29:51
coffee on field without any expectation of it going further.
29:55
Because that's sort of it's about vetting the person.
29:57
It's about getting their vibe. You're doing a vibe check and I
30:00
feel that's understood on field in a way that Hinge, in my
30:04
experience, can be hit or miss with what people expect from it.
30:07
Yeah, because for me, this is a vibe check.
30:09
So will you be more likely to seek out someone who wants a
30:12
DDLG relationship, or are there other kinky relationships you
30:17
want to explore? I think out of all this stuff
30:19
that I've come across so far that I've looked into more of
30:21
the DDLG is more up my alley. But I think I think there would
30:26
be elements to potentially more of that primal aspect that
30:29
could, that could be fun, but I don't, I don't know if that
30:32
really falls under like the hardcore kink component of it.
30:35
And that's again, that's something.
30:36
And then I'm very open to exploring.
30:38
And I think it'd be very fun to explore.
30:39
Like if I close my eyes and I allow myself to fantasize,
30:42
there's an easy situation where I would be tying somebody up
30:46
where I would be kind of playing that role very much in command
30:51
of the situation that I think it could be very fun do.
30:53
You fantasize thinking about these things.
30:55
Do you think about vanilla sex? I think it's it's more vanilla,
30:58
but what's interesting is like I don't use porn.
31:01
I don't use any of that stuff right from for multiple reasons.
31:04
But what I'll tell you is when I started diving into this and I
31:07
started fantasizing about more of like the DDLG component of
31:11
it, I was like, oh, that shits hot like whoa.
31:14
And there are a lot of other kind of places in my mind went
31:17
in that sense. So it's working its way in.
31:20
Just for context, that's one of the questions I asked.
31:22
When someone tells me they're kinky and we're further along
31:24
and dating, I will ask them when you masturbate, what are you
31:27
watching or what are you thinking about?
31:29
And for me, if they do not say the kinkier stuff, I just know
31:33
that we are not going to align in the bedroom.
31:35
So this is like, that's my litmus test now too.
31:38
I'm not against vanilla sex, I just know if I'm only
31:40
masturbating to kinky thoughts I need someone who's at that level
31:45
and I don't know. My question for myself is, am I
31:48
open to someone who later in life discovers that?
31:50
Where do you fall on that? I got to tell you, I am dating
31:53
actively and my run runner person is someone who also
31:58
shares having what I'd consider a fetish or a kink where they
32:02
will always imagine kinky things.
32:04
They're not having vanilla fantasies.
32:06
And for me, meeting and talking to someone who's like that is
32:09
much more appealing. Like I think that that put that
32:12
person at the front of the line. So this is a serious question,
32:15
right? What if you came across somebody
32:16
like me right in my exact situation where it was like,
32:19
hey, just get out of the serious relationship That there's an
32:22
aspect of this I'm very interested in exploring, but
32:24
cards on the table. The experience in this world is
32:26
minimal. No pressure.
32:27
Take it or leave it like. If someone shows genuine
32:30
curiosity and a willingness to learn, I'm very open to it, OK,
32:34
because I don't want to have to teach everything if they're
32:36
willing to just teach themselves a lot.
32:39
And I want to learn about your process of how you've been
32:41
researching this stuff, I'm willing to go with them on that
32:44
journey. And one of the things I
32:45
personally do and I've talked about this on the podcast is I
32:47
will send them videos of things that turn me on.
32:49
And I'm say I'm into this. I jokingly say, I will give you
32:52
a 10 page essay on exactly what I'm into.
32:54
Why I'm into it like this, if they're willing to take it on,
32:58
right, And if they're willing to engage in it and the way they're
33:01
responding to me is from sheer curiosity and not trying to
33:05
immediately step into that role. Any of those things, I will
33:09
consider them. The moment someone brings out a
33:11
line like you do what I say or tries to be dominant without
33:15
developing any type of connection first, they're done.
33:18
So if you it sounds like you're curious, I'd be really open to
33:22
it even though you have almost no experience.
33:25
But I would cut it off much faster than maybe someone who is
33:29
experienced. Yeah, no, that makes sense.
33:31
I think it makes sense. It's really funny to me that
33:33
this almost strikes me as like trying to get your first job
33:36
with like a short resume. You know what I mean?
33:38
For me, I'd be like, OK, I'm open to teaching, but you have
33:41
to go through three extra rounds of interviews.
33:43
If you seem like you suck, I'm cutting you.
33:46
What research have you done? How have you researched?
33:49
My primary is Google, right? It was a good one.
33:52
I didn't candidly, I didn't do a ton, ton of research on to this,
33:55
so I didn't find any like YouTube channels or anything.
33:57
Also, I know I'm gonna talk to you so.
33:59
I swear by Reddit because you get people's personal
34:02
experiences. No ones overthinking it.
34:04
It's not some essay that you need to read.
34:05
It's literally like my girlfriend likes this and then
34:08
some. Like really dirty in depth
34:11
description of what that person likes.
34:13
Yeah, let me ask you a Reddit question real quick because the
34:16
the girl I'm going out with on Friday, on her profile, she
34:18
wrote MFM and I was just, I was like, oh, you know, I wonder, I
34:21
wonder if that was something that I would experiment with if
34:24
I would go down that that path. Right.
34:26
So then I went on when I read it and was reading kind of just
34:29
about people's experiences with MFM.
34:31
And then it and then it turned into like this deep dive on
34:34
women talking about their experiences getting gang banged
34:36
and like, I'm being completely serious.
34:37
Like in general. How do you think all the stuff
34:40
that you read on Reddit is? Because some of the stuff that I
34:42
was reading, I was like, this would not surprise me if this
34:45
was a guy writing this from a perspective.
34:48
I think that a lot of times too. But then I, especially in the
34:50
work I do now, I never underestimate or try and
34:54
prescribe what a man or woman would have written.
34:56
I know sometimes it seems like a wild fucking fantasy that would
34:59
never ever happen. But then you're in a
35:01
conversation and someone tells you the wildest fucking story
35:04
and it's sort of like, did you feel safe doing that?
35:07
Because I'm constantly thinking of safe.
35:10
I'm just like, how did you know everyone was negative for STI's?
35:14
Like why did you feel that this was the group of people to do it
35:17
with? What vetting did you go through?
35:19
I ask all of these questions. Sometimes I like the answer,
35:22
sometimes I don't. It's none of my business.
35:23
Point is that these are real stories that I hear from the
35:26
person who orchestrated it. I think a lot of times it is,
35:29
and I think it's a little bit of society telling you women are
35:31
one way, men are another and we internalize that.
35:34
I never underestimate who can say what, no matter what their
35:37
ages or the stories I have heard.
35:40
But yeah, Reddit was Reddit's been an excellent place to learn
35:42
about this stuff. So you're a personal trainer.
35:45
Would you ever consider hiring a sex and relationship coach?
35:49
Oh fuck yeah, of course. The way I look at coaching is
35:53
you hire coaches to help you gain knowledge and develop
35:58
skills in areas you just want to progress in, Right.
36:01
Yeah. So one of my current clients
36:04
right now is a men's dating coach.
36:06
We've had long conversations about how to put together good
36:08
profiles. I've read his book.
36:11
Like, I basically just get free coaching when I'm, when we're in
36:14
our session, and then he bounces a bunch of stuff off of me as
36:17
well. But like, I think coaching is
36:18
one of the single most valuable things that you can possibly
36:20
invest in. I pay a shit load of money to
36:23
work with different coaches for mobility for, and it's not just
36:26
for my own personal healing, but so I can apply it to my clients.
36:29
So when it comes to relationship and dating coaches, yeah.
36:32
And again, I have you, right? So that's kind of a cheap code.
36:36
But I mean, I would hire you in a fucking nanosecond if I didn't
36:39
have you as a resource and I met you and I knew you and I was
36:43
getting into this world. Like, of course I would because
36:45
it's especially if you're in my position, right?
36:47
This is a new world. I am not delved into something.
36:51
Ryan, me, I think I would consider myself a genuine
36:54
rookie, right? Them genuinely inexperienced in
36:56
a long time. And there's feelings of
36:59
confusion, a little bit of overwhelm, some intimidation
37:02
that comes with all of this stuff.
37:03
Like if I'm being honest about it, it's just like, whoa, like
37:06
this is not my world. I'm curious about this.
37:08
But I want to make sure that I navigate especially the initial
37:11
stages correctly and in a way that's going to allow me
37:14
candidly not to make an ass out of myself.
37:16
And then to also to preferably cultivate a great experience for
37:19
whoever I'm with. I care about that stuff.
37:22
So yeah, obviously hire a coach like the best thing you can do.
37:25
I agree and I like my clients who I work with.
37:29
Their king journey moves so much faster and smoother and they're
37:32
able to get more from each other as partners.
37:35
I think there's a hesitation though, because there's also
37:37
this thought like, oh, I should just know this stuff.
37:39
See, I disagree with that, and I know you're not saying that, but
37:41
I disagree with that line of thought because how are you
37:44
supposed to know this stuff, right?
37:45
And again, and there's also a difference between like going on
37:48
a Reddit thread and reading it, but then getting to ask your
37:50
coach and getting to understand the nuances of these things and
37:54
have somebody to talk this stuff out with and kind of game plan
37:57
on certain aspects, like not knowing anything versus going on
38:00
Reddit. There's a big difference, but
38:01
there's an exponential difference between just going on
38:04
Reddit and then actually working with a professional and someone
38:09
who is deeply experienced like like this.
38:11
I'm not shamelessly plugging you.
38:13
You're a fucking somewhere dumb, like you've worked in a like,
38:15
you know you're shit and this is your world.
38:19
I think the knowledge that and again, you're my friend.
38:21
So I get to ask you this stuff and then I get to come on your
38:23
podcast and like do this for free.
38:26
But like the amount of knowledge that we that I can get from one
38:30
conversation with you is going to outpace you.
38:34
And I could have a 10 minute conversation, 10 minutes and I'm
38:37
going to get more and higher quality information from that 10
38:40
minutes then I would be able to get from probably hours and
38:44
hours of my own independent research.
38:45
That's 100% correct. And also like it's the added
38:48
benefit of the person getting to know you.
38:50
But I do have sessions where someone just comes to me.
38:52
They pay for one hour because I'll offer that and they will
38:55
just come with a list of questions of things that they
38:58
don't even trust the Internet with.
39:00
Like they don't trust Reddit because they're like I just want
39:02
a professional answer that I trust from someone.
39:05
Yeah. And I also think for you and for
39:07
this world too, and, and this might resonate with some of
39:09
your, some of your listeners a little bit more than me.
39:11
Be somebody in my sense, right? But especially if you're getting
39:14
into this and there are aspects where you kind of alluded to
39:17
before about maybe some shame about some deeper areas where
39:21
you may almost consider like, Oh my God, like, am I allowed to
39:23
think like this? I'm a pretty secure person in
39:25
myself. And some of like, where am I
39:27
allowed my brain to go when I was having some happy adult
39:29
dirty thoughts about, you know, certain aspects of DDLG and I
39:33
was like, all right, cool. Guess what?
39:34
I'm still perverted, but I can really understand too, where as
39:40
we move into this, and I'll include myself in this because
39:42
there were aspects of this where it's like, is this appropriate?
39:45
Am I crossing lines? Is this OK?
39:48
How do I do this in the right way?
39:49
Like is there something wrong with me?
39:51
And I think I think the ability, if you're going through that
39:55
aspect of the journey, to have a coach, another human who is
39:58
deeply versed in this world that you can talk to about these
40:01
things can be really, really, really powerful and important
40:04
too for somebody's own personal feelings of like.
40:08
OK, I'm good. But then also again, like how do
40:10
we navigate certain situations where maybe it is a little bit
40:13
dicier and you want to explore those areas, but you want to do
40:15
it in the right way? That's literally what I do
40:17
exactly. Thank you.
40:18
You get it without having gone through a code.
40:21
Well, I feel like our sessions of personal training, we did go
40:25
through some stuff like this or discussing stuff like this, but
40:28
it's the fundamentals are the same of like why you would seek
40:31
out extra help. Same why I went to you.
40:33
They're exactly the same. You taught me to work out was
40:35
really tailored to me. I know where my shortcomings are
40:38
and there are things that even then going to big classes like
40:41
Barrys Boot camp or something, I knew how to adjust things
40:44
because you told me your body doesn't work like that so you
40:47
have to fix it this way and. Then there's also that huge
40:49
aspect, like, especially if you talk about gym stuff where it's
40:51
like just having somebody to help you get comfortable in a
40:54
gym setting, get out of your own head sometimes, which we all get
40:57
into it. And like, like I was even having
40:59
this discussion with with one of my newer clients and she was
41:01
like, you know, I know when I go to the gym, I know nobody's
41:04
looking at me and I should just get out of my head.
41:06
And I was like, we'll call her Jessica.
41:07
I was like, Jessica, that's inaccurate.
41:08
Everybody's looking at you. Like anybody who thinks that you
41:11
go to the gym and no one's paying attention to you is
41:12
completely wrong. Everybody's sizing each other
41:14
up, everybody's looking at each other, everyone's judging each
41:16
other. That's actually the reality of
41:18
the gym. So let's just get that out of
41:20
the way and then we can figure out like, Hey, where do we want
41:22
to put you in certain aspects of the gym?
41:25
And we game plan this whole thing where if she goes into the
41:27
gym on her own in the beginning, she's just walking on a
41:29
treadmill and she gets more comfortable.
41:30
And then when she wants to lift, she goes in like a certain area
41:33
in the corner where fewer people can see.
41:35
And the point about this is it's like these are the types of
41:37
conversations you get to have with a coach of the coach is a
41:40
good coach, which you are. And it's like, no, no, like you
41:44
get to talk those things through.
41:45
And I think that mental component of it is huge as well.
41:47
It's not just the technical aspect, it's the mental
41:49
component too. Well, like it comes full circle
41:50
to how I felt more confident just telling guys like, Oh yeah,
41:53
I worked with a coach, I had a personal trainer.
41:56
It matters and it does. That confidence has stayed with
41:58
me years after. Like you haven't been my
42:01
personal trainer for two or three years, but I still do some
42:05
of the same workouts. I think those are all of my
42:07
questions that I had for you. I'm really glad to have this
42:10
answered, although I always knew you were a Dom just from the
42:13
things you I was like he definitely is, but I also wasn't
42:16
going to get into it with you and now we know.
42:18
I'm like upset we didn't get into it because I feel like that
42:21
was our relationship and we talked about everything else.
42:23
I. Was excited to go through all of
42:24
these things especially because we had we have talked possibly
42:29
one of the humans I've talked to most outside some of the best
42:33
friends in my life because we had three hours a week to just
42:36
shoot the shit I. Don't know man, the whole dating
42:39
thing was like, I'm so happy on my own to be honest with you
42:42
too. And like, that's the other part
42:43
of it. That's when you're supposed to
42:45
be dating though, when you're super happy on your own.
42:47
Because I'm just like, I have my own fucking spot.
42:49
I come home, I do my own thing. I feel great.
42:51
Like I wake up, I go, I go do work, work's going well, I got
42:54
my boys and I'm just like, I would like, honestly, it's just
42:57
like I want to get laid. I also do know that like if I
43:00
found somebody who I really liked, I would want to spend
43:02
time with them. But I also don't know how I'm
43:04
going to fit this into my life, but I'll cross that bridge when
43:06
I come to it. I think one of the worst things
43:08
I could possibly do is try to overthink this before I'm in it.
43:11
Does that make sense? And that makes total sense.
43:13
There's a possibility that you also just need to enjoy having
43:16
your own space for a while. There is a possibility that
43:18
something could come along. I'm really big on intentional
43:21
dating. You've identified your need of
43:24
having sex. That's something you want to do
43:26
now. That's what you're optimizing
43:27
for. That's the thing.
43:29
You optimize for what you're looking for.
43:31
The reason I always say that is because some people, especially
43:33
in the kink world, a lot of people are like, oh, I want a
43:36
Dom. I want a Dom.
43:36
And I'm like, do you want that Dom to be your partner in life,
43:39
or do you just want them to be a Dom and they hedge their bets?
43:43
And I'm really against hedging your bets.
43:45
I'm like, no, if you want your boyfriend or girlfriend to be
43:50
your Dom or your sub or whatever it may be, I'm like, you have to
43:53
go for it. And I think that's one of the
43:55
major reasons why I kind of stopped fucking around on Hinge.
43:58
And I just started messing around on field a little bit
43:59
more. And I was like, my intention
44:01
here, I want to meet somebody who is happy having a casual
44:04
sexually based relationship with somebody who is not emotionally
44:07
or logistically available very often.
44:09
And I'm totally fine if they're fucking other people.
44:12
I don't want that pressure. I just like if I can get laid
44:14
once a week, I'll be thrilled, you know what I mean?
44:17
On that note, thank you for coming on the King Consultant.
44:21
It has been really great talking to you.
44:23
I appreciate sharing your story so openly.
44:26
Isn't it crazy that the last time you dated there weren't
44:30
multiple apps to choose from? There are apps for every
44:34
situation now. The person that I just ended it
44:36
with, we met on an app specifically for kinky dating.
44:40
You know there's no need to live in the in between anymore it.
44:44
Makes so much sense. It's great.
44:45
It makes all this 100 times easier.
44:47
But yeah man, I am it. It fucking dates me.
44:49
I'm 36, I hadn't been on a date since I was 28.
44:52
But it's kind of fun your wits about you and realize like when
44:55
you're swiping on people, there is another person on the other
44:57
side of that app, you know, and talking.
44:59
And I think that's the mind fuck that a lot of us go through
45:02
because because when you can keep swiping like, and I don't
45:05
like doing that to people, but sometimes it's the balance of
45:07
how overwhelming it is versus my energy.
45:10
But also, if I get a very thoughtful message, that's what
45:13
I try and respond to a hello, I don't have any guilt of not
45:16
responding to all right. All right.
45:18
Thanks, Coach. Yep.
45:20
All right, man, great talking to you.
45:21
I'm out of here. All right.
45:22
Have a good night. Thanks for coming on.
45:24
Bye bye. If you enjoyed this episode,
45:28
don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with
45:31
anyone who might find it interesting.
45:33
And if you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in
45:35
future episodes, feel free to reach out. e-mail
45:38
info@thekingconsultant.com. Until next time, keep on kinking
45:43
on.