Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Jeff Wilson | Strength Training for Trail & Mountain Runners

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Jeff Wilson | Strength Training for Trail & Mountain Runners · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up guys, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lariello, and today we've got a special one for you guys, podcast alumni.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Mr Jeff Wilson joins the pod, comes back on.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: This is a really good one, really fun, really insightful.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: So, for those of you who aren't aware, jeff is the strength and conditioning coach for the cross-country team at the University of Colorado, colorado Springs, and we get into all kinds of really cool stuff.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Basically, the whole point of this podcast if you are a trail runner or a mountain runner and looking to get some value in understanding how to uh implement a lifting regimen, that's basically what jeff came on to do is talk all about lifting um, and there's a little bit more too for those colorado springs runners, because we do get into, we do a deep dive on running correlation as well as the incline um and how the incline can help you build some strength.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of good nuggets of wisdom in there.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: It was a really fun episode.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: We talk about all kinds of things, um, from training, training related and uh just ways to improve your strength and conditioning Um.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: This podcast itself was uh really inspired by Kim Smith, who, um came on the pot a few episodes back and we just got into a long conversation on lifting and how much time he spends on the gym.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So, um, I thought it would be fun to bring on uh Jeff to uh talk all about uh giving you guys some tips and advice for getting some strength and conditioning implemented.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Uh, it's a special one.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoy this one.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: It's time, ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Jeff Wilson.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast dude.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you, James.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to be back.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Dude, it's good to see you, man.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen you since Pikes.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: We bumped into one another at the Expo, so that was nice yeah yeah, yeah, gosh.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: And even before that, what was it the Incline?
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, july 4th, that's right.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Two, that was nice.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, gosh.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: And then, even before that, what was it the incline?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, july 4th, that's right.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Two days before my magical day.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: So that was two days before you broke your foot.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Dude.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about what you did and like since the journey back very unfortunate.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I really haven't been in this good of shape since probably about seven years ago, like not that I hadn't done anything fun the last like year or so, but just relatively speaking that was uh, that was a bummer.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: I'd finally just about hit almost 50 miles, and that was including two of the this is two of those miles being inclined miles.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: And then part of it technically would have been the Mount Yale Mount Yale run, where I broke my foot.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, so you broke it on Mount Yale.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was coming down.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Oh shit, dude.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I had about three and a quarter to go to the cars.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Were you on the?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Was it the Denny Creek side or the Avalanche side?
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Do you break your foot?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: There's two trail houses.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: There's the Denny Creek, I think Creek.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I've actually rolled my.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: The reason I ask is I've rolled my ankle nasty there before.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Really I didn't break anything, but I hate that trail.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I mean I was like I was having a blast.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was like my.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: It was like that breakthrough week where, like three, three, four weeks before I was starting to go, okay, I'm starting to like bomb some downhills which I had never been good at, and really it's only been for couple years of me doing trail, trail stuff and so I was signed up for the ascent, the pikes, peak, ultra 50k uh, which I was the scent especially.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I was really bummed not to do that, but that run was like one of those breakthrough runs where you're just like I did the incline twice down bar trail, never done that before yeah the runs I was doing.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: It was just even on, even if I did like a treadmill workout so your body was absorbing.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Everything was just, I would just recover the next day.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I started the Mount Yale run two days after, doing a two and a half hour incline day.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I'd never done that.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: And then it was just like, oh yeah, after like a mile warming up, and so it was just one of those very ironic things you finally breach your own metaphorical mountain and then something goes wrong.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: But I was nothing weird happened.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I literally, like I purposely stepped, stepped on the rock that I broke my foot on and it was just a slanted one, which if you only hear that context it kind of makes me sound stupid.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: But it's like, but it was just.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't even going fast.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Ironically, it was a flat section.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I had just come down from the really hard stuff.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I, uh, I stepped, I put my right foot on this, uh, slightly slanted rock and it just went I know exactly the area you're talking about, so it was about it was about to like I was about to go down and turn, okay, and I didn't have that much more above tree line time oh yes, you're still up high, never mind.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I thought it was because on that denny Creek side that there's a um like, there's an actual like flat section, like where it's nevermind.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, I remember that.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but so anyway, and I just, I like, right away, I stopped I.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: The only word I said was fuck.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I just knew it, just it, just literally.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I've never heard a bone break, never had anything like that happen, and I so you, you heard it.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I heard it.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: This is the worst.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I stepped down and I took my shoe off just to like visually confirm and there was a little bump I mean this is 30 seconds, you know and I was like, okay, just kind of sat, there's nobody around me.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: How many people I just passed and people still coming up, put my shoe on, look down the trail, kind of like oh Jeff, this is a journey, yeah, yeah, In front of you.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: It's a long way.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: You've never done this before.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: And then today, journey the next few months, journey like, and I just I, I'll be honest, I was pretty happy with myself that I, the way I handled it.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I just.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I was kind of joking around with people, like every time.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was literally hobbling the entire way down when my friends was coming up and he gave me his poles and that was a lifesaver.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Did you drive yourself back?
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Uh no, I.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I'd come with three friends.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: One was kind of like a little bit hike running.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: The other two were hiking Okay and uh, but I mean it took.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: One of my other friends came with me, it took came with me.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: it took us about two and a half hours to go, like three ish miles wow I mean, I was like butt scooting down rocks at times, like I'd you know, I was just nuts yeah so the journey back, I mean I had about what?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: eight weeks in the boot.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Um, I snapped the fifth metatarsal.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: So it was like right where the bone juts out.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't have to get surgery, thankfully, yeah, but dodged a bullet there.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just the original.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: When I went to to UC health upfront they told me I needed to, and just hearing those words just made me want to punch a bunch of walls Like oh God.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I was like please.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And then I went to the surgeon and she's like oh, you don't have to do this.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: She's like you can, it'll heal faster, but this is going to be a pain later.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, well, okay, well, I'm not going to like I'm not going to be running for a while anyway.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, why, yeah, why cut it open and it goes through the whole process.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Screw that.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's been a journey I just now I'm back to like I can't do probably more than two miles at a time, like without walking a little bit.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, I physically can do it.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I'm just kind of at the point where I shouldn't yet but and I'm running so slow, it's so weird.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: The only time I've ever ran this slow is going up.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: It's going to be frustrating, man.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: It's, oh yeah, like the very first, my very first treadmill day.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Like I was supposed to do 20, 30, 40 seconds at a time and then walk for three minutes.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: That by itself was already tough and then two.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: The very first, uh, uh pace was 12 minutes.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I just, oh, my god, I just was like this is the weirdest thing well, the thing is too dude is like you, having run for so long and being as fit as you are, like you have this enormous, like this enormous engine, so you want to go right, yeah, and it's mentally trying to tell yourself like, oh no, I don't do this, don't do that, which has got to be horrible.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: It was pretty tough.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: I mean I I similar to what I mentioned a minute ago coming down the mountain I've I've handled it better, better than I would have years ago.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I would have.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I would have been very angry years ago.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: This one I was.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I was in a better, I'm in a better place mentally and emotionally to do this kind of thing.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: So maybe my foot's been waiting for me to be ready.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I put it through a lot of wear and tear over the years and I've never broke anything.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: So it was, it was interesting.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: But now I'm like feeling, okay, I get in the eight thirties a little bit and some of my runs and whatnot, but I'm just basically bumping incline if I'm on the treadmill, just so I can get my, my heart rate into the one fifties a little bit, to kind of play around, but I just can't go fast, can't do strides, you know.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: So I'm like getting on the bike here and there and doing sprints, this, that and the other, but um unfortunately, when you start like get hitting it again, like I don't know, I feel like those upper zones like zone three and stuff like that, it'd probably come back pretty fast Right.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I believe, yeah, I think zone three will.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I think zone three will.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I think when I get to the, the next couple, I think it's going to be a minute.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, I think I think zone four.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Like I don't want to say it'll take a while, because I was in really good shape going into it, but it was like I mean there was a good gosh, what was that?
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Before I even biked for the first time Six weeks, I think it was, I can't remember fully, maybe four, but I mean I couldn't do anything hard.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's so frustrating.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: And then so that was, that was like a.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, I can kind of push.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I mean that that was even weirder.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Like, think I'm on a bike.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not even really pressing down much with that, especially with the fifth bone.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like you're just thinking mid, like medial, like mid, you know all that stuff.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: But anyway, so it's it's.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: It was, it's been tough.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I was really getting excited about these races and Well, dude, it's uh I know I hate to say it, but there's another.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: You're already healed, Like for the most part healed.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Now you're already back to training and now it's like all right, well, 2025, you got.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, dude, it's November, you got so much time.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean I'll, I'll do my track races again.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: So I I'm just bummed.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I didn't get to like scratch the itch of the trail races.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I mean I was like thinking about them from the moment I got to the top of Pike's peak last year.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I'm breaking three next year.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, dude, like I want to see you do the ascent, like full, full power ascent, yeah, yeah.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: So now I'm I'm even hungrier, though, like I I'm going to, probably, but I don't know what I'll do with track.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I'll just kind of go with it, putting spikes on and doing like hundreds, 200s, 300s fast and stuff.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I have no idea how that's going to feel for the January and February.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: So I'll be fine by March and April for sure, and then all of a sudden it'll like end like early May, and then I'll basically be going right to trails, like I did last year.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: But I want to try to average like 50 a week or so, which, relative to the last few years, is a lot for me.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: But I want to like really go after the ascent.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I'm so interested to see how fast it comes back for you, because it's like I've seen a lot of athletes where they have these like massive setbacks and things like that, but they can bounce back rather fast like yeah, it's relative.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: It's weird to think with this, but with this specific bone, because it's like you're, it's the lateral stability bone, yeah, and I just conquered my fear of going downhill fast three to four weeks before this, oh man, so that that part's going to be a big journey.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think I'll do.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if I'll do the 50 K.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I probably will, cause I'm kind of like I, once I get past the hump, I probably just won't care.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but going down the way that I, the way that I did on like coming down from Mount Rosa, it was like three weeks before I broke my foot.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I mean I was just bombing.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had never gone like five, 30 something down a bunch of rocks.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, solid like yeah.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Or whatever.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: It was probably six minutes, but it was just like it was.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: It was cool, but now that this has happened, I don't there's a mental, I don't know.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: So this may have to be more of a just an ascent summer, I don't know Cause it's like, obviously, other than the fact that the training days you have to come down sometime, Um, the most of the things I could do will be going train like the hard stuff will be going up.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I guess I could go down slow all the time, you know.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I did so, all right.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: So it's funny you say this.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I did a um, like a lot of my training last year which I don't recommend this to people but like a lot of my zone one, zone I'd say zone two training was, uh, I'd say zone one, zone two training, probably the like I would do my higher end stuff going up obviously for those higher zones.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Like I'd say like one zone two training, probably that like I would do my higher end stuff going up, obviously for those higher zones like yeah, it's like a blodger peak or something like that sure like an incline and inclines easier.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: For, like from a controlled stimulus perspective, like I feel like the incline is easier but like if I'm coming down blodger it, like that's, I'm going zone one, zone two.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not bombing that because there's a high probability of injury and yeah, easy to Um, so a lot of in the winter dude like that's where I was getting, like any of those like zone one, zone two stimulus is from was just on the descents, like taking it really easy.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I one of my buddies who's done a couple of few hundreds told me that the other day he was the one I posted when I did the incline for the first time the other day.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he mentioned, like he said, a lot of trail runners that he knows doing like an 80 20 yeah as far as the downhill sections go, I will absolutely have to do that this coming season.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I, from what I, understand, I get a little selfish with my intensity sometimes oh, it's fair.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: It's like once I, once I like cross the hump of confidence and I'm not in my 20s so I got to really think about that.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: But it's going to be.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: It's going to be hard mentally, thinking, like you know, going down certain and it's like cause I actually even rolled my ankle a little bit walking down the bar trail, I just I was like trying to get around my friend and I went in this little divot and my ankle like rolled really fast and they both stopped and they're like dude, you okay.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I was like I kind of like stopped my foot a few times I'm like I didn't hear anything.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, suppose I mean it's, but you're supposed to get stronger?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, for, I guess, obvious, somewhat obvious reasons.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: But when you, when it happens to you that doesn't feel like you're in that place, it's like no gosh, how could this be better?
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like envisioning what I want, what I want to do with downhill and just general training.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine that, yeah, but so I'll probably need to take some advice from the uh, more avid trail runners on how much I do downhill.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Well, from what I understand, you don't like I mean this is just like theory in general.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: From what I understand is you don't have to do that many like hard.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Five like, let's say like, like in very rarely will I even do it.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Five like, let's say like like, and very rarely will I even do it.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Like, let's say that you're 535, like your low five minute mile pace.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I never do that in training and like that, that's reserved for race day, but like every now and then.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Like you only have to do so many of those stimuli apparently to like get that muscular.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: This is from what I understand.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know this might be bullshit, but in order to get that like, I think this is a muscular neuromuscular training is, if you know this better than I do, so um, but from what I understand is like you don't have to do that many of them in order to get that adaptation yeah, I mean I.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I'm so new to the trail side it's hard to like like the concepts all make this are all the same right, but like to.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: How much do you change it with, like, terrain being such an obvious element of change?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially with how much going up your heart rate, like that was the two seasons ago.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I was so shocked at how high my heart rate got, just running like 12-minute pace up certain parts of bar or something like that.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like once you actually have done it a little bit, it makes sense.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But in the beginning you're kind of like what 160?
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: like you want your watch, like, yeah, like why like I'm like I don't even feel like I'm doing much and uh, and then obviously then, like seven minutes later, you're like oh okay, yeah, yeah, like this is actually very difficult it's such a hard sport, dude, and it's there's a lot of uh, there's a lot of hard shit to figure out.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Like I listen, I feel the same way and like I'm more now so getting into training theory and understanding it better now than I ever have, just because, like I don't, I feel like last year I plateaued a little bit, getting too specific in training yeah so now it's like all right, how do we build an enormous engine and then how do we do the appropriate things on top of that to get like the perfect pyramid, so that way you're right, fit as fuck for next year.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah you know, and I think with trail running too and this will kind of probably segue into what we're going to talk about today it's still so young in like, how many people are doing it, yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: And if you think back to like when the running boom hit, generally speaking, in america in the 70s, it's like I mean we could go on so many topics, but at one point they're running in Chuck Taylors.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I mean the marathons.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: In the beginning it was like you're having Coke for your sugar in the middle of the race and stuff, you know.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: So it's like there's been so many advances, yeah.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: And then in the last probably 15 years, with social media, all of a sudden it's like, oh, like, there's all these like layers of like.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, the pros are doing like hand cleans and stuff and all this single leg work and it's not just like these pt banded exercises you know, and so I mean that's like an all-around part of strength training for runners.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: but you also take the same running concepts for trail running and it's like how, like, relatively speaking, how many people are there at the top for trail running?
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: And it's like how, like, relatively speaking, how many people are there at the top of trail running relative to like how long it's been on the track and the roads, right, right, and so it's like there's still time to where we need more people to go.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: You know like, uh, what's it?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Wamsley, yeah, you know, for, as an example.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Or you know Killian, or something like that.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: It's like, obviously that they're the.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: You know killian, or something like that.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: It's like, obviously that they're the.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: You know joe gray, for you know people in town um, I'm not, as I'm not as well versed with the females, other than some locals like um, yeah, christine, you know.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: So it's like but like imagine multiplying that by like 40, right, you know, across the world.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And then it's like okay, now we have these more, we have more reps, educationally, where it's like okay, so that many people are saying the same thing, you know.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And so, anyway, I just like it's like it's going to be a while.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: And to your point as well, like how many white papers are actually written about trail running?
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, absolutely.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how many, yeah, yeah, how much.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: How many studies being done?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: right and it's just.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And the thing is is like I don't know I'm I'm gonna zoom this out and then, yeah, we'll take it to strength after this, but it's the reason why we're one of the reasons why we're having this conversation but no, like, even like I don't know.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I think about it from like a training theory perspective too, from like, um, just fitness wise, like your zones, your heart rate training, and it's like like, if you look at like killian's training, right, and you were to compare something like that versus like jim's training, right, and you were to compare something like that versus like Jim's training, versus, then take like Joe gray, for example, three very different athletes, three at the very top of their of the sport, at the top of their game, um, but doing completely different things.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I would guess.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know too much about Joe's training, um, but Killian's very transparent about what he does, and same with Jim Jim is about what he does, and same with jim.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Jim is not very transparent either, but killian like released a lot of the stuff that he did recently, um and dude, like his aerobic stuff, like he was doing five to six hours a day of like zone one, zone two, yeah, I kind of I got that idea.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't read the whole book, but the uphill athlete yeah, I've got it.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I've been reading it.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great I've only pieced a few things because I was.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I just basically immediately went to the strength things I'm like, I'm really curious to see, yeah, yeah, you'll say so hopefully I'll reference that.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't like study his that whole section, but there was some interesting yeah notes and stuff and it's like okay, well, we're talking about trail runners.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, he's a good person to look at.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: So like it's so, but some of the things I've learned and how it has helped other runners as well as myself, it's like like there's some crossover, but not a lot, yeah, and so I'm curious to see that would be another one with the reps.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: It's like, okay, how many people have done what he's doing Right?
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: And then relative to who they are cause we can't expect them to be as good as he is how, how successful did they continue once they started doing something similar to him?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, what does that add up to?
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do they adapt, do they not?
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Do there's a body breakdown?
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Do they get these performances?
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: So one of the reasons like I really wanted to have this conversation is I had Kim Smith on a pretty recent lane.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I haven't listened to that.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: It dropped, actually drops tomorrow.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So, oh, okay, Okay, maybe I'm else.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: You posted something recently and I was like, oh, I wanted to listen to that one, but no, you're good, you're good.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: So he is an absolute monster in the gym.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Like, from what?
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: So, put it this way, he's a dual sport athlete.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: He's a um, probably going to be an olympian on the us schemo team okay, knock on wood, um.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: And he's also arguably the best mountain runner, one of the best mountain runners in the country, arguably the best mountain runner in the state freak athlete.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Um, but one of the things that interested me and me like dude, before we had the conversation on the podcast, like he went and ran a sub 19 minute time on the on the incline.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: He's so strong.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's legit.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: So that's what I'm saying.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: But, like, so the conversation got brought up where we were talking about the gym, right, and he spends like five to six hours a week in the gym and a lot of it's single leg stuff.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: So that kind of spurred the idea for this conversation to talk about.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Like, basically, just talk about strength.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: You know, strength work for trail runners or mountain runners and like how can you get really strong at something like that?
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you know and like obviously his is a little bit different.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: One he's he's an outlier athlete.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Two he's, you know, like I said, outlier athlete, and uh is also a ski mountaineer.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: So it's a little bit different stimulus.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: But, like just from a running perspective, how the fuck do you get that strong?
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: yeah, that's, that's impressive.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, did he go?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Does he go into detail in the episode of like how much he does in those sessions?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: So I'm assuming it's probably, for I think he said somewhere.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, they're in there, bro.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: It's obviously broken up and he's fresh when he goes in.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: From what he said, okay, um, fresh when he goes in, but at the same time, like he told me, most of the stuff he's doing single leg and it's like very specifically targeted toward.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Like break that down for me, like what do you, what do you get?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm glad.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: I'm glad when you, when you put the question, or at least like ideals, what we talked about and you said single leg, I'm glad you mentioned that, so like using him as an example, without even knowing anything else other than what you said.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Obviously you mentioned you already said the phrase freak athletes.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how are I?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Don't know, who knows how many hours he has going into this, but the single leg, I would say although nothing that I'm going to say today is an absolute single leg is the goal that people want to get to, and so it's like, yeah, we can force some things.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Single leg RDLs are probably the most common one that most people can just like learn a little bit and just go out and do.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Plus, people need to hinge at the hips, probably more than they normally would, and most people don't go in the gym anyway as runners.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to plug that in a couple of times.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Just go to the gym.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: But single leg's the goal that you want all runners to get to, and being able to do that well, you have to have a very good foundation of I'm used to saying the bilateral term of uh, I'm used to saying the bilateral term Uh, I haven't listened to the Sean Rimmer episode, but, um, you guys are doing like a series, right?
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: That just the reason why I thought that I just did a PT session with him the other day and we were we, yeah, anyway, shout out to Sean.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, shout out to Sean.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: What up, dude?
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Um, most people need to have a couple years, give or take, whatever, given what their athletic background is this, that and the other, and also relative to how much they're running.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: And then their time.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Most people have more time than they realize, so that'd be another plug, I'd say is like, if that's your thing, that's stopping you, at least do something at home body weight, stopping you, at least do something at home body weight.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And your most people need to just start with the, with the double-legged exercises, and be able to squat well, be able to deadlift in some way or hinge at your hips well, calves have to be stronger, hip flexors have to be stronger.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: And then other areas of strength like rotational strength, anti-rotation exercises, like a dead bug type of thing.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: That one's a simple one that can easily be just done on the floor, obviously, but even stuff with resistance bands which, if anybody listening, follows my um, my Instagram channel.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I actually I think my recent video is literally the Paul off press exercise with, which is an anti-rotation exercise Uh, farmers carries, some sort of like crawling exercise, like there's like eight, 10 categories that I would argue you should always have at the very least every two weeks.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say every session, cause that can get nuts, and you know I don't want to like go do 90 minute sessions or something Um, cause a lot of you can get a lot done in 20, 25 minutes, truthfully.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: But you need a, you need that foundation for an arbitrary amount of time.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: If we're talking periodization, generally speaking and stuff I learned in school, it's like you're probably, if somebody's a beginner and hasn't done much other than maybe something years ago in high school or they've joined some classes once in a while, most likely you'll need several months of base foundation training, not that you can't go sooner or something, but to really be prepared.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've been training three lifts a week on average minimum for like several years.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Some of it I wasn't running just due to some of my injuries and stuff like that.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: But like the amount it's hard to explain until you do it.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: But the amount of squats and deadlifts I've done, um, and it didn't feel like anything changed in some of those areas other than the very small like.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm doing this little six week stint, it just takes a while, just like running, to actually build the muscle fiber type to be able to do it.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Well, and before I go into what I was going to say with the single leg, just for everybody listening, a lot of times runners are afraid of bulking.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: It's almost impossible for most runners to bulk, like if, if anybody, if you followed anything I've done recently uh, I just got a lot of my uh, uccs guys made fun of me because I posted this video of.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Uh, I had a pair of khakis that I can't fit into anymore and so and but, and it's all because of my, my butt muscles growing, but I purposely like one, I broke my foot and so I, like, purposely have.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I've lifted about four days a week, which I'm not going to tell you to do Like.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I don't have any of my clients do that you look good, you look swole.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, and actually I feel good I part of.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: There's some testing that I want to do with the more hybrid style thing and I think that really works well with trail runners Most people if if it's done well and they're willing to do it, um, but there's some things that that's a young part of the educational system too.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, you have some of the like youtubers, like nick bar and stuff, who went from the bodybuilding route.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's big and and he's big dude, he's ran 239 in a marathon just fastest shift for someone so big.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I'm, I'm extremely impressed that he can do that.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Um, but anyway, uh, the length of time in that realm I think is a little arbitrary, you know, because it's like what's the system that, or what's the length of time that somebody has going into, let's say, this moment where they're like, oh, I'm going to start strength training tomorrow.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: It's like if you have zero experience, like let's look at a couple years of learning doing it, showing yourself that you're going to consistently show up into the gym and stuff, and not have it be based off of if I'm sore, or like, oh, I'm going to take, you know, two months off or something.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: It's like it's one thing to have breaks but you do just like running, kind of set yourself back so to get to single leg, well, outside of, like the minimal stuff, um, single leg calf raises, the RDLs I mentioned earlier, and like partial box, like single leg box squats and stuff like you can obviously do those with a little bit of experience.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: But to truthfully be ready, I would say this like where I'm going with this with single leg, I would argue this is coming off the top of my head, so bear with me, but think of it like some of the newer training topics in running, like a double thresholds, like everybody's freaking out about that, like most people shouldn't do that.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Right, you know, like this is I'm not saying that about single leg exercises, but it's like you shouldn't.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Like even if you've been running for years and you run 50, 60 miles a week, you could make the argument that it's still not worth it until you get to some of these athletes.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: What was his name?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Again?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Cam Smith.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Cam, okay, yeah, he was just an outlier.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: If you're a professional, if you're doing it for a living.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Very big difference.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: And I say that because it's like, let's say, you have one day a week where you strength train.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: It's like this is all I can give and stuff.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: If you don't have a lot of experience, the single leg stuff is probably not worth it for a while.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: And I would say the same thing with plyometrics, unless we're talking ladder drills, low box jumps, little tiny hops and stuff and just standing jumps.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's teach people how to land properly, which will absolutely help you on the trails like way more so than people think because a lot of what you're doing constantly is decelerating, like even though it's, even though you're thinking well, I'm running forward.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: It's like, from the actual joint perspective, what's happening every single time you look at a rock, and it's not just a flat track, it's a completely changing.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everything is changing, and so you, your body needs to know how to do that.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Um, but plyometrics and single leg stuff would also be part of what I'm getting at, which is, like you all, you would want to then take plyometrics into the into play and then add that into your single leg work and so, um, hopefully this isn't sounding confusing but, it's like, if you have this base of strength, learn how to do, um, I would say, base level plyometrics within like a year or two, you know, kind of learn how to do those things, kind of incorporate single leg work here and there.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Learn how to like feel what's different left to right, front to back, um, I think.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Think that's very important, especially mentally, to kind of go, okay, um, like my cat, like my calves I've posted about I've gained half an inch on my left side.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: That was the one um, whether you caught this or not.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Like a few months ago I posted that I was one inch in diameter left or a smaller on my left.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Well, my right one was the one that broke.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: So, and it's always been my dominant leg.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: I, when you turn left on a track which I don't know how many times I've used a track in my life, but it's like thousands the torque that my right leg pushes is always more ironically than when I got on that rock.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: The torque is just neuromuscular, it's just that's just how my body operates when I'm trying to do something hard, and the left one's more of something where it's like, it's like the timid side.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: So that's part of the reason why single leg work is very important, without getting too far down that hole.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: But, um, after the foundational stuff and you get a little bit of base level plyometrics, then you want to kind of go into the let's call it intermediate to advanced, um, both ends of those.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: But you can only you don't want to do that in like a 12 week period.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Like this is like stacking sometimes over years, which I know not a lot of people want to hear that.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: But like this is you don't have to be a professional athlete, but it's like to to truthfully do this well and not teach yourself bad patterns.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Um, you gotta have a lot of foundational stuff, especially with your calves.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: That is one of the most underrated parts for runners.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent, yeah, the.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Achilles and the heel and the plantar fasciitis.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: All that stuff is related to how strong your calves are and like the dorsiflexion muscles that bring your foot up, um, which think about trail running.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: If you ever like kind of tripped, it's like sometimes that's just going to happen, but a lot of the times it's because your foot's dragging.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, obviously people can't see me doing this, but I'm like insinuating that like my foot's not going above the rock a lot or enough, and if, uh, when you're going in your, let's say, in the last hour of the ascent, well that becomes pretty important, you know.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, just a little bit.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Um, that was kind of a big rant, but no, no, I appreciate that.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: No, and this is all like all juicy stuff and, like I said, this is kind of what spurred on this conversation and kind of get this going as far as, like you know, just understanding our audience in a lot of ways, so our audience in a lot of ways, so our audience mostly trail runners, I would say mountain runners, trail runners, um, in Colorado, mountain West and all over the place now, which is kind of crazy, but I think a lot of that conversation was is to just provide value.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: So if I'm let's say I'm intermediate, let's say I've been running for a while, I've already done I don't know a bunch of 50 Ks or I'm, I'm sub ultra athlete, doing a bunch of 10, 11 Ks or mountain classics, things like that.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Or or if I'm a local and I'm just doing the ascent every year, right, right, and I've been doing this for a while, if I wanted to start implementing obviously this is different, you know, because we're not doing outside of the single leg stuff but if I want to just implement a strength training period into my schedule, if you will, yeah, what would I do and how would I start that?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good question.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: So I would say, think about, okay, what's today, november, like 7th?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's say somebody listens to this in like a couple weeks mid-November, it's getting to the holidays listens to this in like a couple of weeks, mid-november, it's getting to the holidays.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: And we'll use that example of somebody that's like doing the ascent every year or something similar to that in the summer to fall.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: You have obviously several months I would take obviously this could be done at any other time, but this is just a really good example.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I think I would take the next, like five, six months, and do the foundational strength training twice a week full body, uh, full body workouts, where you're touching on at least half of those uh types of exercises.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Um, one of the workouts and then the other half are very close.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: It'll be a little overlap every time, um, on the second workout.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: So, like an example, um, like a squat would be your first exercise on one, a hinge on the other one and then, like, as far as upper body, uh, a bench press or a shoulder press or something like that, and then some sort of like rowing exercise and then a carrying exercise on day one, and then day two is, uh, maybe one of the rotation exercises, and then obviously you can add there's a million of everything Like I won't.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Unless you want me to say specific things, I can go through that.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: But what's the best bang for your buck Of exercise?
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I personally say the deadlift.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Most people say the squat.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, if we're talking everybody in the world, I would say probably squat, because as people age, being able to get up and get down and get up very efficiently is very important.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: But just, most people can like wrap their head around squatting, whereas hinging takes a little bit more.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, you have to brace at your spine really well, there's a low back component, it's your glutesutes, hamstrings, even calves a little bit, which are usually the weakest parts on runners and most people.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: But because we sit a lot and all that stuff, but with, from the running perspective, hamstrings are usually the less dominant relative to the quads.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And so I think training that if, like, we're talking like one day a week or you're just really behind, quote unquote I would say having a hinge, um, both days would not be a bad thing, even like a barbell glute bridge which has a similar type of hip extension.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: But the deadlift I would say is is like the, the big one.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: That's my favorite actually especially the hex deadlift yeah, that's an easier way to teach people I can get a hex bar man I've been needing to.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's phenomenal, like for people listening like it, only it takes less learning power.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: The barbell one takes a little bit more work to do well, and usually runners are pretty tight in the upper hamstrings and the low back to some degree and that usually highlights when you do the barbell, whereas the deadlift, unless you're really tall, then it can kind of swing the other way a little bit.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: But the hex deadlift is big time stuff Is heavier better.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I always liked that question.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: So this will actually circle back to my reference of Killian earlier in the Uphill Athlete book.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I didn't read the entire chunk of this, but I read enough to where he was.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: It seemed like he was bigger on a lot of reps for what he does and how he likes to live his life.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: I think it makes a lot of sense.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I don't remember if he says anything about ever doing anything heavy.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I think he does, but don't quote me on that.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I would tell him, even if it's once a year for six weeks, to do that for two big reasons.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: One, long-term health and like more of a physiological performance benefit it gets.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: It gets a little bit more, let's say, type two fibers and stuff, and that's not something he's training almost ever.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: So I think that provides a bigger foundation for the plyometric stuff that he's doing a lot of.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: And so if if we're talking to, not not him general person like you referenced a few minutes ago, I would say in most cases it's better in the very beginning, probably not just so you can learn how to do everything well, um, or at least enough well to not get hurt.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: But after a few months I would say that the the like let's take the achilles and the calf reference I made earlier that the load that that has to take, even if you're somebody like, oh, I run like 14 minute miles or something like that, it's like doesn't matter.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like the amount of pressure, it's like a bunch of, it's like thousands of plyometrics over and over again.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: And people don't look at it that way because running's been around forever and you know quote-unquote plyometrics haven't.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: So it seems like this, like world of difference.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: It's like it's it's not really.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like if you can't like hop for 60 seconds without like your back of your heel hurting, it's like that's a problem.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: So that's where the heavy like calf raises come in.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: And this would be another shout out to sean.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: He's the one that really harped that on me when I was first going to see him for my left foot, not my right.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Shout out to sean, remember, he's a genius.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: And it was funny because it was like I was using the same concept for everything else.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the running industry has always pushed for the lower legs a lot of reps yeah and before it was everything a lot of reps, and so I mean again, I don't forget that we're talking to trail runners and people that might be out there for a long time.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: It's still a little bit of something I got to learn, but I think they're throughout the year.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: People need to uh, periodize, to have a bit of it all at some point, and I think when you get close to a race, especially if this is like your big one and you're peaking, I personally don't want to do a lot of reps of anything.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I really don't touch weights any like within like weeks of an event.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like and I know a lot of people that do the same and I think at that point, that's where, like going back to the reference of single leg and plyometrics being the goal, let's say you're there, at least close.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: That would be when you're like you're taking off the rep, the volume from most likely your volume of running is high and so you need to balance how much of each.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: It's not?
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: You don't want to just think linearly and you just keep adding, keep adding and everything and all.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I'm up to 80 miles a week and everything that I do is 20 reps and it's like gosh three, four days in the gym.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah Cause it's like strength You're here for performance benefit and injury prevention, right.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: And so it's like, if you're, if you get to a point where you're kind of bell curving the benefits, it's like, well, you're, and that's why people will stop sometimes to get hurt and it's like, well, I wasn't supposed to get hurt.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, that's not how it works.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Um, but you don't want to just keep adding volume, yeah.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: And then that's when you, if you're prepared for the single leg stuff you can do like sets of five of something like little hops, little box jumps, uh like almost like a um goblet squat position, like forward hop.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Most people probably just need to do double leg for stuff like that, like a broad jump.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: But that's when getting close to a competition now you're like the amount of contacts on the ground for a strength session could be like 50.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know, between five exercises, two to three sets and that's not that much.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: No no.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: And so now you're just complimenting all your mileage.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: That's how I would.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that answered your question.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: No, it does.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I think a lot of the question too is just like the peer, from a periodization perspective too, it's like all right, so I'm getting ready for I don't know, let's just throw in the ascent.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Right, if I'm getting ready for the ascent, we're doing obviously a huge base over the next five to six months.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: September's a long way away.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: When do I start specializing a little bit more, like when I especially cause now my?
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: My running volume in the summer is probably going to be higher as well.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: So it's like how does that work then?
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, so what's what's looking at this way?
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: If you were to give a month to month mileage per week average, how would you imagine you're going to go all the way up from here to September?
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Oh man, so like that's a really good question.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: My mileage drops over the summer, actually, just because I'm doing way more events.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: So like from.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: June to September.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I mean like for me, I don't know, I'm like a non race week.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: I you know I could get as high as 80 miles a week.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: It could be as low as 40, you know, sure it depends on, like when we're coming off and stuff like that, but from an average like I average in the off season, I don't know 65 to 80 miles a week when I get full peak and it's more consistent cause you're not racing as much.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and that's up until June.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: So, and would you start that like now, if I, if I didn't have bronchitis, yeah, okay, so let's say, let's say december 1st.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's say december 1st in theory um, yeah the goal is to what?
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Nine months, yeah, okay.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: So that, yeah, this is a good question.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I like this.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: So let's say, let's say you do average in december.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Let's say you average like 50 something and then it's 65 to 80 for six, five months.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Right, let's say, let's say let's get to like may, mid-may, um, so that is.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: That would circle back to what I said earlier.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: That's where you then you could just, you could just stick to the two days.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: You could have a third day with power.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: But we won't, we won't get into that unless you ask something specific.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: But, um, for just general people, just two full body days and just a basic linear periodization, with every three weeks up, one week down.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: To keep it really simple.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: You don't have to think about it much three up, one down.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: And so like you could start with um this isn't the only way I would do it, just FYI.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: But let's say, in December, january, february, you were doing a little bit almost like quote unquote base lifting and you were a little bit higher in reps then with um week one, two, three, going like a little higher in intensity but lower in volume.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: So let's just say like 15 reps, 10 reps, 5 reps.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I don't do it that way all the time, but that's a decent way to look at it, especially after you get past the first 12 weeks.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Then you have a little more leeway to where.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Then you're doing at least 70, 80% of what would be one rep max type thing.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Um, so I know I hate one rep max testing, I just like the numbers.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: So like if you're, especially if you're by yourself, there's just I mean, that's just not smart.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: But uh, even if you have like a spot or something like that, I think three or four reps is a good like testing day to do and then retest it every six, eight weeks.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: For bench squat Um, yes, runners should bench and a deadlift, and then I would say you don't need to do those for everything else.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: But you could have a couple of fun ones, like pushups, where you're doing max pushups, max pull-ups, if you can do them, or assisted pull-ups, just so you have numbers to kind of go okay, this is fun, just just like you're running stuff.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: And it's like you don't need to go crazy.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: You just do it in the like the first week in the, or the first day of the first week and the second day of this uh of that week and then six to eight weeks usually eight works for people, cause then it's not as it doesn't like come up so quickly, but uh, so let's, let's say we're past that 12 weeks, um, then from there you would have somewhere in the ballpark of eight or 12 weeks until you started like racing more, so you have a little bit of leeway where you could have a lot of fun with it.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: If, let's say, you were racing right after that 12 weeks, I would say immediately just go to more performance stuff.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Like let's get um in the third month.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: I would say immediately just go to more performance stuff.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Like let's get um in the third month.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I would have already added single leg work to you, so you're used to it.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: And it's not like oh, hey, your first week's in two weeks, like let's do single leg squats, and you're like dude, I've been sore for three days.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: What if I want to build power at that time?
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: The middle section that we're at.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, so that that would be if I was training you, knowing a little bit of your history and where your goals are, and especially if stuff like the ascents in play, I would want to build some power then, but not peak, okay, as then I would.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: I would take the same things I said earlier and ideally you're in a good place physically where you don't have this injury, this something big toe uh, hopefully not knee, cause that that the single leg stuff gets really not so fun.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Um, if you have a little knee issue, but let's say you're like solid across the board.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I would want the racing season to be like the, the con, the low contact numbers that I just said earlier, upper body and lower body, so even like med ball tosses and this, that and the other.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: So ideally those middle two, three months would be closer to five, six reps a pop in most cases for, like the bigger exercises.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: This isn't like for like a, just a dumbbell row.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: This is like the squat deadlift type stuff and I would have you still do three weeks up, one down, but it would be most of the same exercises, all those four like each four week cycle, and I would be adding plyometrics in a couple of ways.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I would do it in a contrast, contrasting kind of method where like, let's say, you squatted on day one and I would immediately have you do a box jump.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: So you'd literally set the bar down, the boxes right next to you and you're doing five box jumps immediately.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: So you're doing like a almost like a counter movement type thing.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: So you're like going heavy strength and then boom, power movement.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Same kind of thing could happen with with bench.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: You do that and then you immediately throw a med ball, um, like a twist throw, or like you're laying on the ground and you toss the ball really high up, just don't want to hit your face, um, so like I would, I would.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: That would be how I would start it.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: And then, as you're into the peaking phase, we don't need as much of the other big exercises.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: It's not bad to have them because you can still increase power by your speed of the bar.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: So like you could go down to 50, 60% of your of your estimated max and you're going down controlled and then you're exploding up on the squat.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: I do that with my UCCS guys mainly.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: The number one reason is because there's a lot of them and doing all like different.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Like some guys doing single leg is it would be a nightmare, and so I'm trying to like best bang for my buck with a huge group and so I keep the big exercises in and then, plus they like it I mean their, their average age is like 2021.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: So like putting a bar on your back and stuff feels cooler than doing like a little single leg hop.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: So that does play a role, like somebody's likes and dislikes.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: If they have a little knowledge, yeah, it's like like try stuff out.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: But if you like absolutely hate barbell movements, like you're going to stop doing it.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so like we don't want that at all, but anyway, does that?
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: does that answer?
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: gaps where you're like oh, what would I do with this?
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: No, no, 100%.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: And that was the big question is like I mean, one of the big fundamentals of the equation, if not one of the most important ones, especially for uphill speed and strength, is power.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we want power.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: So if we want to build power, how do we build power?
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: So that got to the question.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: One of the things I noticed with you is especially now, like every now and then, the last second, the last time I saw you, you're on the incline so, and you're on the incline like do you ever use that for strength?
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Or like what do you do, what are you doing with that?
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I like that question, yeah yeah.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: So I I have had some conversations with some of my like ultra friends and stuff.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Um, it obviously depends on something Like if it's if it's like the ascent versus just like a 50 miler, you know, even if it's at altitude, it's like you gotta look at how much of the, how much gain are you having and how much do you just like doing the incline versus like doing something really hard.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: It's like, obviously the incline is hard, so you're getting quote unquote, a big bang for your buck.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: But if that's like a lot of what your workout is, it's like, well, at some point you're not running fast, right, like even um, running quite slow, but even even high.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, your heart rates up.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: So it's like from a strength perspective perspective, I think if somebody is not doing much leg exercises in other in places and they're just like this is like I wanted, I wouldn't tell somebody not to do this because this is going to be where they.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're literally stepping.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: You're doing step ups, yeah, for somewhere in the ballpark of 30 40 minutes for most, like generally good runners.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, even if you're really fast, 19, 20, 21 minutes is still yeah, like your heart rate's probably 170 something in most cases.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: And you're literally just stepping up the whole time, especially the middle third man.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: The middle third is such a bitch, it's so fucking hard.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Like I'm six feet tall and it's like you get to like I don't know 100 or 200 steps On a good day and with shoes on, and I like I struggle on that middle section, like it's like I don't know.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: But here's the deal.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I can't complain because, like I know people that are like like John is is is, john Aziz is not that much taller than me, he's just an athletic freak Dude.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Doc Miller's my height and we're probably I might have a little bit.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he might be a little faster than me on the incline.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Last yeah, it was last march I did it when I pr'd something like that um, that was not on a taper, like that was not on, like really just was, like happened to be a cool day and worked out well, yeah, okay so like I definitely know I could go faster yeah, my goal before I get too old is to get close to 20.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: You could definitely do it.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: A few years ago I went like 25 something but it was like I wasn't running much, yeah, and then I really have never done it where I was like wicked shape.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Like I never did it during my marathon stint last year.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: I just I don't know, it just has never lined up to where I'm like oh yeah, I'm gonna go like 24, something today or something, so I would like to.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Before I'm 40 or early 40s, I'd like to try to go at least somewhere like around 22 23 100, so I'm gonna need some.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna need some people, I think the big thing.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I'll probably call you one day like dude, drag me up the sucker I've got a buddy of mine and this is this goes into the power conversation one of my best friends, brad he um, he's a training partner of mine.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: He's a schemo athlete yeah and dude, like he kicks my ass on the incline every fucking time we go up there, yeah, and it's a lot of it's because he just can generate.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: And same with my other buddy, nick, shout out to nick tusa um, dude, like their hiking ability is like they can just generate so much, even though, like, my muscle groups are bigger and I might in some instances be a better runner.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: But like, when it comes to that ability on the hiking side, especially on the super steep stuff, to generate that power, yeah, that's where I need to bridge that gap.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: That's why I ask a lot of these questions.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's partially selfish, it would be interesting to know, especially something this would be cool to do a test with like 100 local people that have done it, like at least 10, 15 times a range of.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: You know, somebody can break 20 all the way to like 40 or 45 or something.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: I'm going to age myself here for a second.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: When testing was first done way back in the day with like Jack Daniels and stuff, when he like was riding a bike next to somebody with like a VO2 like tube, when he like was riding a bike next to somebody with like a VO2 like tube, I mean one of the first, like the two biggest runners that I think I don't want to say the first people that were tested, but Steve Prefontaine and Frank Shorter were good at the same time In 72, prefontaine gets fourth in the 5K and Frank Shorter wins the marathon, but their VO2 max test and their lactate thresholds were flipped.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: And so it's like if you I mean if you know anything about those terms you'd probably assume that Frank shorter had the better lactate threshold because he can hold you know, just hold for longer, for a non-scientific way of saying it and Prefontaine's heart could pump blood like crazy.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: And so it was.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: It made sense that his like mile 5k, 10k was typically better than what Frank could do.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: So it's like think about that, with like the incline Right, like there's stuff that we don't know, somebody's power metrics like how quick can they do like a reactive jump, or like how long could they hold 10-pound dumbbells in their hand or have like a weight vest.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: And here's a hot step up just at the gym, like would somebody, would you crap out even if that same person had a better 10k time, right then.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: So you know, I mean, there's like I don't even I, I would have to really like sit down with like 15 people more like physiologic, physiologist type people and and and really like try to like make some assumptions, and it'd be, it'd be fascinating truthfully, Dude.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I would love to see the correlation between 10K time and incline time.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: I think there's something to that.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: It'd be interesting.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Cause, like the times could very well be close in some cases.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously 23 minutes, right right, you know like there's a certain place where that becomes a not so great statement.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: But, like for some people, they might be able to run, like you know, a 36 minute 10k and they may not go that much faster exactly in the incline, most likely they would.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: They're probably somebody that could go 25 minutes in an incline, but anyway, it's like you don't know, they might be really weak stepping up muscular, yeah, like you know.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: but that's the thing is like all right.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: So here's my here's the million dollar question would Would you even correlate?
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think at the top end, like you're Joe Gray's the World, you're 17 Minute, you're Remy's I think you could correlate VO2 max to incline, right, yeah, but for, let's say, your 20 to 25 minute incliners, that's like an aerobic.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: What would you?
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: This is a.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: I haven't even thought about that, because that's not like an aerobic.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Like what, what?
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: like what would you yeah, this is something I haven't even thought about.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: That like, how like, because that's not vo2 I mean like you're not pounding over 200, like your heart rate's not over even 190 at that point, like maybe in sections, but like yeah oh, I'm gonna.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: I'll have to.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: I might have to come back to you on that, yeah, so that's an interesting thought.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: I've been like combing through this uphill athlete book and I recommend this to anybody like I've been reading this like like a madman lately.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just to like kind of like have a better understanding of, like, all right, my lactate threshold and like where are my pace zones and heart rate zones and all these other things, and like, okay, like a lot of people train so much time in zone two, you know, and that for me that's like 130 to 140 something somewhere in that range.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Um, and I generally spend most of my time there, so I don't know yeah.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: I this, this is the tough part about running topics or like the physiological stuff, because you know, one of the age old questions is you know, like, how much do you run?
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, coming like going back to my old college days, if you really correlate everybody's mileage, the majority of people that ran more happened to just ironically be the faster ones.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, there were some like I was actually kind of a weird case Once I got to my last year.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: I was only running 60, 70 miles a week and I broke 15 in the 5k and I was running that was about the same time as two or three of my teammates and they were running 90 and they had been for a long time.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: I tried, I never responded to it well, and so I ended up having to do more anaerobic work because that was at that point, a weak point and I just so I I mean I literally started sprinting a lot throughout the winter and stuff.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: I was doing stuff with my, my middle distance crew because I had done so many vo2 reps.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't getting anywhere.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: So, like, with the incline, it's just this one thing.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that you just kind of.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: You, just there it is.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: It's kind of simple, like you just go up a bunch of stairs, right you know it's, like it's obviously hard as hell, but it's.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: You don't have like different pace zones, you're just going up, like you're not doing like 400 meter repeats or like mile repeats on the road or like I mean, there's even, there's even trail stuff that people do that they'll like.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Do reps of it yeah not that people don't do reps at the incline, but it's such a I mean, that's so much more of a buy-in time-wise that it's like okay, unless you're doing an ultra, most people aren't going to do that Like I thought it was cool that I did two.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I have friends that have done nine, eight or nine in a row and I'm like holy crap.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: And so I don't really have a great answer for you, because it's like, well, I think the strength and power component is what is where people plateau.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but are the times for somebody's incline at the time that they did it, relative to when they're saying why haven't I gone faster, like I could be, like like I did the 25 something like six years ago?
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and I mean I, I've I've gone 28 or 29 a few times since, just kind of like doing it randomly.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's almost no good way to correlate.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Why the two or three minutes?
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Because I wasn't running that much during the sub 26 one and I was running a decent amount last year but I didn't do it at the right time.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet you I would have gone the same time or faster, probably, yeah, and so I like I, I say all that with oftentimes most likely the people that are running more are going to do it faster.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: But there you'd have to compare people like a one versus one thing.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Like it'd be interesting to know what Joe does.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure I'm assuming he's done 18 or 19 minutes on that.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: Joe's like 17 something, oh, jesus.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: I think that's right.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: I mean that makes sense.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely 17.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: I mean he's gone 205.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: If Campbell went sub 19,.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: I think it's like high 17s.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nuts, that's so fast and he's obviously ran 205 in the ascent yeah.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: So it was like 31, something dude that's so fast.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if he's training for it.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: I mean he might have literally just jumped into it.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he can you know and so it's.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: You'd have to really evaluate through, like your threshold or you could.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: You could just say zones, but like I like to look at it more as, like vo2 stuff, your, your speed.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: A lot of people don't work on that.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: That would actually correlate back to your power question from earlier.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: I didn't even mention this, but I think people sprinting and sprinting up hills for even eight seconds is something that almost nobody does.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like stuff hill strides too.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: And most people like strides are the best way to do that.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: But like, that is probably what's lacking for most people when they're looking at their plateaued incline, yeah, it's like, are you doing anything explosive?
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Because when you get to that last third you got a whole ass, dude, I mean like it doesn't seem.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Once you get over the hump, you're not moving.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Because you're not moving fast.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like power would be the thing yeah but even for like, I'm gonna like this is gonna be a random note for some people but even as somebody ages and we're talking about health and not falling power, exercises are one of the best ways to prevent that, because they need fast reaction times.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you don't think that because we're talking like about an 80 year old here and so you're not thinking like quick stuff, but it's, it's quick relative to what they're not doing.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Um, if that makes sense, yeah, and so think about that from a running perspective.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, most people aren't doing power exercise in the gym, most people aren't sprinting, most people don't do enough strides.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: That's probably where a lot of these like mid twenties, low twenties, you can drop most cases unless the person's just really good at the incline Cause.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: There'll be some anomalies where someone's like oh yeah, I went on like I had the buddy.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: I did that sub 26 with.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: He grew up in Manitou.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: When he was in high school he went 20, 30 or something.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Wow, and he was, just, he was, he was, he was a good runner and he was really small and light and stuff.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: But like when he told me that I'm like, but like I, some of the things that you and I have done with like 5k and 10k aren't much different right, right and so like where do you?
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: like why can I not do that?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so again it would go back to timing, and but he was really.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: He was a very good 815 under runner, so his power was like, I mean, he was springy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: And it's like there's your Cam Smith, dude Like.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, if he's a freak athlete.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: There's so much power in those legs Like that's.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: That's what blew me away Like one of the like dude.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Also, he's a phenomenal VK runner.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: And then you can.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: And you can correlate the VK to the inc.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: Inclined athlete, like you're gonna be good at the vk yeah, well, and look at joe's joe gray's history too like I mean, he was a track runner right and so, like I think he's a phenomenal example of what can happen, going from either a certain type of training or just going from a certain history to trails and obviously look how successful he was.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: He's coming on monday, by the way.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: He's coming on, oh nice, I'm so excited.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Funny if he heard, if he wasn't before, he might.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: He's coming on monday, by the way, what's that he's coming on?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Oh nice, I'm so excited.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Funny if he heard.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: If he wasn't before, he might.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: He might shout out joe um I think I've met him one time on a trail, but oh, he's so nice, he's a good guy.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard he's a good dude.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, he would be a fun example to see test results of like stuff in the gym, yeah, like the hibble center down to our cross-country guys, guys did three tests.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Dude, I don't even know if he lifts.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know either.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask him.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: I'll find out, yeah yeah, ask him.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: I'd love to chat with him about it because I'd be so curious to see what he's done, especially as he approached 40.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: And he's obviously still doing very well in certain areas and stuff.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: in every race I see him he's like relatively doing very well, the fact that he just ran 205, what was it last year?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: The ascent in the ascent and stuff.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: It's like I mean obviously that's impressive, but I'd be curious if he does anything, because some people that's what let's say he doesn't.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just for a moment.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: There are some anything from ultra trail runners, even olympians in the 5k, that are running 12, something for their pr which is just out of this world, bonkers.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: There are some people that don't lift weights, but we don't have every mark of test results of, if you compare, if we somehow got every runner to do every test VO two, max lactate threshold test, a bench press, a but you know, just like, over and over and over again, we had their single leg power and their jumping power.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Um, I mean, they have a force plate in the treadmill at the hibble center, like our guys, as you could see left and right, like like is it equal in terms of their force production?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't know those things.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: So that that same person that ran 1250 and like does body weight exercises, somebody might see that and go, oh look, I don't have to do that.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: It's like.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Well, no offense, but you're not this person, right?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: everybody's different, like and we don't have their like.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: We don't have the genetic.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: The genetic part is unquantifiable, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: And then the muscle fiber makeup.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Nobody tests that.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: So you don't like somebody might just have naturally had something, or their background like like a Joe yeah, I mean, he was, he went to the steeple trials.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I think so.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: He was in his twenties yeah.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like to to have done that amount of the athletic part of a distance runner, like that would be at the higher end of somebody whose power markers are just through the roof right, and then you and then you throw that on the trail.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: And he also happens to have some other things, like he's good at racing, he's good at uh, he just happens to be good at uphill running, or he just trained his face off, yeah, to get good at it.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: But he had those other kind of high vo2.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so, yeah.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: So it's like anyway, I don't know.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: I know I'm saying a lot of stuff, but it's like you just don't know all the markers and so it's either.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Well, why does this person?
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Why is this person beating me in the ascent every year, but I beat him in the 10 K?
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: It's like completely different race, right, right.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: It's's always with my training partners.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: I'm like what the like um shout out to nick tusa phenomenal athlete, stud, absolute stud.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: But he was telling me he's like, you know, when I was in high school, he's like dude.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I used to like squat no, I can't remember, it was deadlifter squat like almost 500 pounds and he's like my size, that's he's probably he's a little bit taller.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: he's a few inches taller than Maybe a little leaner than I.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Am like build wise, but we're built pretty similar and, like dude, it's like I've never squatted anywhere near that.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: I would imagine like that, whether that's a genetic predisposition or the fact that, like he built that you know and has that background and that base translates so well.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: He's like the fastest hiker I've ever seen in my life Like so that's interesting.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that then it goes into the hiking conversation, right, you know, like an efficiency.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: So has he done the ascent?
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: He's not.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: He's going to be doing a 25.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: I can't wait, that'd be interesting.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this would be fun.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: We, we, we would need a few of us.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: It'd be fun to like make a huge like personal study and look at people's like PRs and like, uh, maybe do some testing.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've I've thought about talking to the people at the Hibble center and being like, hey, I want to like get like a hundred people in town and like, do all this stuff.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: Do you know how many people on this?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: podcast would probably volunteer to do that.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I mean.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how much that would take or if they would.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, I don't know how that would work, but I'm tempted because I think a lot of people would.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, runners are so data-driven and it would just be fun, because then you'd be like okay, then people could choose in the future.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Do you want to continue doing that yourself?
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Do you want to know these numbers and stuff?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: But it'd be cool to just simply have stuff like in a chart, maybe.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, like, what correlations do we see?
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: yeah with like somebody's max speed or their power or something like that.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: And there's no matter what way you slice it, there's gonna be some outliers where somebody's just really good at racing.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you take like a to go to a different sport.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: You take like a kobe bryant, like he wasn't the best at anything.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, until he became the best at it.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: You know, like sure you know he may not get the goat vote with michael jordan and stuff, but he's a top three, absolutely, you know I mean it's like, and he worked his way there and he just outworked everybody, but he had enough of things of all the main areas to be able to be able to do that, where it's like like most people could just couldn't, no matter how hard they worked, and but so with.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: But distance running is cool because it's like most people could just couldn't, no matter how hard they worked, and but so with.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: But distance running is cool because it's it's such a grinding sport.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like that's.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: It kind of has a similar mentality, but somebody might just literally like quote-unquote the balls in their hand and it's game time, like they can just shut off the world dude it takes so much practice well, that's the interesting thing about racing too, like, especially at a high level, like one.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: One of the things I've noticed is like I've trained with people that, like you, could be absolutely.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: You whoop my ass any day when it comes to training, right, but I'm not, that's.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not there to race on the training day.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: But it's a completely different person.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: When you show up to go race, like, yeah, you're like, fitness obviously is the biggest indicator of how you're going to do.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: But what's between those years matters a lot.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: If the fitness is there, it's.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: How early are you going to put yourself in the race?
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: How aggressive are you going to be?
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Are you going to race smart?
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: You wait for somebody else to blow up?
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of like things that go into it too.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: So and responding.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, covering moves.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: Like you know, know, it's not like you get timeouts.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like it, even if, even if you're doing something like the ascent and you do get most people walk to some degree, yeah you know, but uh, you still I mean you're just going it's not like like, oh, you know, like everybody gets a five minute break at the hour and then you know, it's like like every other sport, you get breaks.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: It's true, you know.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: So it's like you, just you have to literally be constantly responding, in a sense, yeah, to what's happening and how you feel.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: And then if you're racing other people that you care about trying to beat or something like that, then you have to be able to respond to what they're doing.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just there's so many aspects and those are the intangibles and stuff we try to teach our college guys at uccs.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes you just can't figure out why this person's as good as they are yeah yeah, you know like you.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Just you say the general things like oh, he's a big engine or something.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Well, it's like that's not not true.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I just ran a 30 minute 10k, yeah, but like, is he have a bigger engine than everybody else or does he just know when he puts his spikes on?
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that it's game time.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, like this was some of the things, like one of the things that blew my mind this summer.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: I raced a lot of those dirk series races, yeah, yeah, and the dudes that were whooping my ass, dude, were sub 14 minute 5k guys.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: They're so fucking fast yeah um, and yeah, it's like that.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: If you want to level the playing field, you either gotta get I mean, I don't know, I have I'm not to run sub 14 in the 5k.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: It's just not going to happen.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: But I can whittle my 10k time bound Like that's totally possible.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: You know, like different things like that, like you have to level that playing field in one way, shape or form.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: If not, you could be good at the mountains all you want.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: That's not going to help you, you know.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this might sound the exact same to things we were saying, but I've always wondered, in the same wavelength as we just talked, like looking at all these different numbers with the incline or something like that, whatever races, it'd just be interesting to take a lot of people from um, a different background and and kind of quote unquote, level the playing field and see, I mean, the ascent would be a good way.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: Most people don't want to do that once they really want to do it.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like trail runners obviously love it and stuff, but I don't know, I don't have like a perfect like sentence or this like thing to say that this is how we should do it.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: But it'd just be fun to look at people's times and stuff like that and go, okay, like what needs to get better, for this one to get better, right.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: Or like, okay, hey, your 10K time is better than mine or whatever, but my ascent's better, or whatever the situation is, and see how close whichever one.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Let's put it this way.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Let's say, with those two examples, somebody wanted the ascent as their number one thing.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as their like number one thing.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where?
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: Because the, the trail world is still so young where would track running, road running be specifically.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: How much would that help somebody?
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: Because, like, like my roommate Willie, he's not my roommate anymore, but at one point I mean, he went out and he got, he got, he got.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Second a couple of years ago at I think it was the Palmer park um fall series and Ace Brown was the only one that beat him.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, and that dirty boy that previous season he had never ran a trail race before.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: He didn't do one workout, he was just running a lot.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: And I mean I'd be curious if there was another like 10 people as fast as those guys in the same race.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't think there was anybody for another little bit after that.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting because it's like, right at that moment Willie would have beaten Ace almost inevitably on the track Right, and so it'd be kind of cool to like get some of those things like almost like a city competition in a way, where there's like a track, a road, a trail race or something like that Like the triple crown idea.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's pretty close, different modalities.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Well, the other thing too, dude is like so here's my the million dollar question as well is like we've got trail.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: So this is, this is taking trail aside.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: Who does better at trail?
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Is it the road, is it the track or is it the nordic skiers?
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: Because I have gotten fucked up personally by way more nordic skiers than I have track guys like the skiers are so fit yeah, so that I like this question.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: I I have no idea, but this would be, this could be that'd be in line with some of the things we're saying.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: It'd be fun to at the very least take times that are already have already been done and like.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Get people to like, input all their stuff and like and then look at it all, have graphs and all that stuff to see, like if there's anything major, and then if if there's not, like try to interview people or something like that try to get some more details on their training, something like that.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: You know we did.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: This person also do way more threshold right.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Uh, zone two maybe for this person and you know that that I would find fascinating.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing too.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: I would love it is.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: I can't speak so much because I I don't come from a traditional rotor track background but, like what I can understand because I've done a ton of research this this off season, um is into norik skiers and like dude, they're constantly hitting, like constantly testing their latte threshold, constantly pushing that, and I think there's something to do with that.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: And, dude, they spend a lot of time in that zone four, a lot, way more time than people think yeah um, yeah, I don't, and then most of their other time in zone two.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: So I I think it's just like figuring out that pyramid yeah and just like having that so dialed and that translates it must just translate really well into the trails, I don't know yeah, that's, that is fascinating.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: But I mean even think, like, think of uh we already mentioned joe but like I mean, ally mac was a yeah, you know uh, ncaa, ncaa runner before she had gotten some injuries and stuff, and then I think she just quit and moved on to the trails and stuff, but I mean Walmsley was a solid college runner and it's like and he's obviously doing pretty damn well, so it's like and I don't.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: I just don't think enough people have done that to where we can see oh, here's this huge correlation, but they're all good enough, and I obviously don't know all the names.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm missing like 25 people.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: Uh, sage canaday yeah, he's another one like he would be one you know.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: So it's like there's there's enough examples and they've been fast enough relative to the fields where it's like how could this gym in college?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know anything about I don't remember some of my roommates mentioned it.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: I just I just know um.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: I knew he was nasty at air force, but I didn't know how.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I I think you, I think he was like a low 14 kind of guy.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, um, I'd, I'd have to.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: I'd have to look myself too.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: I know he had our old uh um down at valley park, our old 6k course at uccs.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: He had the record, did.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: I don't remember what it was.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: I would assume somewhere in the ballpark of 18 minutes.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: As far as a record goes, I mean, now that we've moved to an eight K it's we've had a lot of fast people there.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: But I mean that just says something there.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: I mean this is that altitude.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, even if it was just 18 something, that's pretty dang good and I'm sure, and that's the beginning of the season, yeah, so whatever that translates to later in the season, especially on the track, I would imagine he was probably a 29 something dude in the 10.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: So fast.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just guessing yeah, just relative.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: Like, given that first number, I would imagine that's probably where he's at Gotcha and it's like, and then look, I mean I mean, shoot, he won UTMB, right, yeah, I mean 106 miles.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: That's a lot different than what he was doing when he was younger, and the same kind of things with Joe and Allie.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just, it's very interesting.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's such a weird sport man, it is crazy, it really is.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: And it's cool that it's going to.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's expanding, yeah, some of the stuff we've mentioned, but just to get bigger, yeah, so that there's just more, more competition in general and stuff.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: Like I, in some ways I'm bummed that, you know I I'm not 25 right now saying all this like like me, but at the same time I mean I don't regret the things I did with my younger years of of training, but um, these young whippersnappers I never had interest in it for the longest time and some of it was just due to the numbers, like you.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Just it was like there was there was very few things where I was like, oh I, I know this Joe guy or the whoever and he did this and that's really cool.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: It was just like I don't know, I just never had an interest in in.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: Most of the people I was around were also track and road runners, right, so nobody was really thinking about it.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, no-transcript.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: I'm like dude, really like hour almost an hour 20 now.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, can we get into some questions, ah?
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, try to think of like the ones I asked you last time.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: I got some new ones.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: What's your take on ai oh?
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: good question.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: Um, I should have expected that, given how big a big of a deal that's become um I've been more open to like this.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: Just the chat.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, what is the chat?
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: gtp or whatever the acronym is like I'm more I I understand it more, like what one of the uh business coaches I work with uses it here and there and stuff, and it's's like I like it for ideas, you know.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: It's like I mean, think about, you know, if you and I were like working together on a regular basis and we both were just not having a great week or somebody's really stressed with something like that, we need some ideas.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: You type it.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing, like how it comes back and it's like hey, I just, you know, can I get five ideas for you know, some email templates to run, or something like that?
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: And it's like, not, that's really not that much different than Googling people who've also created free templates online, you know, and so, and I was so resistant to it at first I was like no, this is so stupid, like this is going to ruin our lives, and it's like so that side of it I like I get it.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: It's literally just narrowing down the internet to do something quicker.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: Obviously, when it gets to if you're writing something school is going to be a nightmare.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know how teachers are going to deal with this.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: This is going to be terrible Is college even a thing in 10, 20 years.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: That's a deep question.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: That's a big question.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: To some degree, yeah, one of my best friends is a deep question.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: That's a big question.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to some degree.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: One of my best friends is a software engineer.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: He's a really like he used to work for Amazon, like he's a good software engineer.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: He knows a shit about artificial intelligence, machine learning, whatever, and like we talked about this.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: I think I might have even said this on the podcast before.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: Like we talk about this, often I'm like dude.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: He's even said to me.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: He's like dude, do I even like save for college for the kids, like I'm not really sure, like where?
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: Because he's got a, I think, a six-year-old and like a four-year-old and yeah, that's a weird place we're in.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's, that's interesting.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: But I mean what I?
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: What I would do, like I don't have kids yet, but I'd probably make a, like it's's plan, a investment account for kids' college.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like okay, if this isn't a thing and you buy them a house.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do you like?
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's your down payment.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go nuts, seriously yeah.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Dude, especially like oh my God Dude I'm sure my mom will listen to this, but like dude if they like, oh my God.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: Instead of giving me that college money, and so they bought me a house, I'd be fucking loaded right now.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would help me out so much.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: I still haven't even purchased a house yet.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: Same dude and I have to go by.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: You know it's like stressful.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: We're literally in such a weird world at that.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: It is wild, but yeah, that's a AI, the robot thing, though I don't know.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, though I don't know.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like where that's?
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's gonna be like robot overlords, like uh, it's funny.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: Like I had john aziz on the podcast and like he's, he's a he's a brilliant aerospace engineer, he's probably one of the smartest people I've ever talked to and like I think we talked he, he, his take on it was that it's going to help the world and do amazing things which it will, because you could take chat gbt now and you could put your blood work in there and it'll read the whole thing for you and give you a whole bunch of information.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: Which I was kind of blown away by that.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't specifically do it, but I might try it sometime.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: It sounds cool, Right right, and we'll get efficient with it too.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: We'll figure out ways where it's like okay, let's say, we did that exact thing.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you didn't just put it into ChatGP gtp.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: It was like in some, some health organizations right which it will probably become, yeah, which most likely would be the case.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: But then it's like then I okay, that's cool yeah that has a potential for a lot of catches cancers early, all that shit.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I think I know we continue to get more efficient, just generally speaking.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: I mean not always, but that's just another way to like narrow down time.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, I just I could see that the robot, the robot overlords Skynet, bro, Skynet.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: Like is iRobot gonna be the you know?
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Well, did you see these new Tesla robots that Elon brought up?
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, what the fuck?
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just like the ones from the movie.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, right when I saw it it was like 2005 movie or something.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: How did we get here?
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, because I, I really, I mean, at the end of the day, humans are all making it, yeah, and so there's always some flaw.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, will the rope, will some sort of robot help us?
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Obviously, robots have been making cars yeah, you know this and the other, but the type of robot we're referencing I don't.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, is you know, there's that one new movie with Megan Fox who's like the robot oh, I didn't see that, I don't remember what it's called, but she's like the AI robot that husband's wife is like hospitalized or something like that, and she can't do all, and he works a lot and they have kids or something, and she's becomes the robot.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Obviously it's a movie, so it's going to go extreme or something, and she's becomes the role.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: Obviously it's a movie, so it's gonna go extreme, and it very much looks like she starts killing people or something.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: But like it's, it's like it doesn't even sound crazy to say that this like, would this happen?
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good, good, like, because, at the end of the day, we're making it, yeah, and we're basing it off of what we think needs to happen.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you not ever?
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: make a mistake.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: So it's crazy to me because, like I'm I'm in my 30s, I'm 33 and like I was born in 91, when I was a kid, like this was all very much science fiction.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: I never thought yeah movies never thought in a million years video games right.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Never think in a million years that like we'd get to this point where, like yo, we're just like giving birth to something like this is a new life form in a lot of ways completely new.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: Um, it's it's partially terrifying and also partially like okay, maybe a lot of hopefully a lot of good can come from this.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, it is crazy.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: It's interesting to me, especially on the sports side, like what can we do with sports and ai to like create, bring things to another level, if you will you know like optimization on every front, um, and then even goes to to like the conversation with, like peptides and stem cells and all this other shit.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: Like dude, there's a lot of stuff.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: Um, yes, like what I had.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: Um, oh, dude, she's absolutely brilliant.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: Meg cook on the podcast um, she's a chemical engineer.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: Um, great episode.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: Highly recommend you listen to that one if you haven't.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: But like, she is a chemical engineer and like, one of the things they were researching was just putting, um, I don't want to misspeak here, but like putting, like I guess creating tissue for, like, for things like that.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: Like, huh, yeah, it was interesting, it was.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: I gotta go back and listen to it because I don't want to say the wrong thing.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: But like dude, some of the like new technology they've coming out with is fucking wild man.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's bright future, kind of yeah, hopefully.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, I honestly thought we'd be like 70 or 80 yeah you know, when, like all this stuff was.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: I mean you look at tesla's stuff and it's like, are we gonna be alive?
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: When, like there's like a floating car probably?
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised we haven't done it yet.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: You know like I mean is it like happening right now in a lab and we just it's one of those things that won't come out for 15 years.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: It's like so on that, on that question, do you think we this is the last question do you think we went to the moon?
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you think so, I do.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too I.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: I was hesitant there for a little bit.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Had to do some serious research.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: Thanks to John Aziz.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's the aerospace engineer.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, he helped me a little bit Understand.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: I think I offended him because I was.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: I asked him this question.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think it actually wasn't the episode.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: I think I either cut it or asked him it after.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: But we put reflectors on the moon that you can see, so I took his word for that Interesting.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: I was like all right, I'll go with that.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: That's fine.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I never questioned it until recently.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: I was like oh, of course we went.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: This would be just the craziest thing if we did all this all these years of these pictures and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you know, I just thought it was a funny joke.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: Some and you know I just thought it was a funny joke some people were like oh yeah, you can see the strings.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: It's like whatever you know like okay, yeah, but even though it is still crazy to think, going to the moon.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: I just never questioned it until recent years and it's like here's all the social media and there's just constant doubting of things.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't blame anybody now for doubting.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: I I really was like questioning for a second.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: I was like fuck man, did we?
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: well, the reason.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: So it's I gotta I gotta stop going to route.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: We're down rabbit holes.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: My grandfather was a physicist, or was worked in the engineering and physics department at nasa, um, and he helped develop the first space flight simulator for the apollo mission.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: So I fucking drive him crazy, dude, because I I always like mess with him, uh, and we talk about this all the time and I'm like yo, he didn't go to the moon.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: He gets all mad at me.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: This is 85 year old man who's like shut the fuck up, um, but anyway, one of the things he brought up and talks about, talked about, was like these and apparently this had been addressed in a rogan episode as well was, oh, he's van allen radiation belts.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: That was why I was hesitant was because there's these.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: Evidently there's these radiation belts that are out, sit outside of the earth.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: Um, that I don't know.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm a, I'm an idiot, I have no idea.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: But like, apparently, like they're, you would get radiation poisoning in theory if you go through them.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: Or, like our, our metal of the saturn v rocket wouldn't be able to get through.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: Again, I'm not really sure, but just something interesting yeah, yeah but I gave him a hard time about that and he told me I was full of shit.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: So there you go.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: So, oh, I didn't expect the moon question today.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: That's a good one.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: All right, very, very last one.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: What's your walkout song?
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: My walkout song?
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: So like how much do you weigh?
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: uh, right now 165 165.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: So you are you middleweight or welterweight?
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Let's call you welterweight.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: So welterweight fight jeff.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: You're walking out like what what's?
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: Is it eminem what's playing dude.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it'd be cinderella man by eminem.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's funny.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I got that easily.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah it would, that would, especially if it's something like that, like mma, like if you I don't know if you, if you have you really heard like listen to that song yeah, okay, like right in the beginning, like the bass hit, it's just like right when it happens, I like, I like light up and it, just it gets me jacked up.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, like quite a bit yeah now, if it's like a different setting.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: It would be like more of a hip-hop kind of thing.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: But fair yeah, well, dude thanks for coming on the pod man.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: This is great episode fun can't wait to do it again, man man, yes, sir, all right.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think I told you this was a good episode, super insightful.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: Jeff is just the absolute well of knowledge and there was just a lot of really cool little tidbits of information.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: We were throwing out there.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: A lot of training theory, a lot of, uh, just a lot of and go and implement that kind of in your everyday training block is to hopefully build for whatever races that you guys have on the upcoming calendar for 20, the rest of 2024 and in 2025.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Really want to thank Jeff so much for coming on.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: One of the things we've been kind of throwing around was doing some maybe strength mini series ideas, which would be kind of fun to talk more about.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: I'm a big, big proponent of strength and conditioning training, so just some really good stuff there.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: If you guys happen to be on the front range and are interested in looking for someone to work with from a from a personal trainer perspective, go ahead and go give Jeff a follow.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: You can find his handle on Instagram at coach Jeff Wilson, at C, o, a, c, h, j, e, f, f, w Wilson, w, I, l, s, o, n, um, and his business itself is called total body or runningcom, so that's total body, runningcom you guys can go ahead on there If you guys are interested in looking for somebody to work with um as a personal trainer.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Uh, jeff is local to the Colorado Springs area and I know he takes on clients on the front range, so he would be more than happy to hear from anyone that might be interested in uh in um.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, looking for um strength and conditioning advice?
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: All right, guys?
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: I thank you guys so much for tuning in Um.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: Last but not least, if you happen to be listening to this on Spotify or Apple, go ahead and hop on and give us a five-star rating and review.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: That's how we can get this out to the world and hopefully provide some value to you guys.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: Have a great rest of your week and, yeah, keep a lookout out.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: I'll look at it for Friday's episode.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you.