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Becoming Anchored S2E6: All Things OCD with Amy Mariaskin · Becoming Anchored

0:04
Hi everyone.
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Welcome to the Becoming Anchored podcast.
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My name is Laura Dineen and I have the lovely Amy Mary Askin
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on the show with us today.
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So thank you so much for being here, Amy.
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It's a true honor and joy just to work with you and
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call you friend and colleague.
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And so I'm so glad that our listeners have the privilege of hearing from you today.
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Oh, I'm so excited about this, and it's always such a pleasure to speak with you.
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So I'm looking forward to it.
0:33
Same, same.
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Well, if you're new to the show, welcome.
0:37
Lauren and I started this podcast a few months ago, and Lauren had the
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idea last year, and I jumped on board.
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And it's really just been such a fun, fulfilling activity for us.
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And we also get to talk to people in our Nashville community that we just
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so look up to and enjoy speaking with.
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So it's just been such a fun thing for us to do.
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If you are new to the show, really the purpose of the becoming
1:03
anchored podcast is to really Ride the waves of life with you all.
1:07
So we talk about our things on the show.
1:09
We talk about our own grief and pain, and we also talk about, um, things
1:13
that we're celebrating or victories.
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Um, and so really we are human first and foremost with you all, but then we also
1:21
have the amazing gift of social media.
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sitting with clients every day.
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And so we also share some of the wonderful stories that we have heard over the years
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through our own therapeutic experiences.
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So we're, we're so thankful that you are here with us today and I'm just
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so glad to have Amy on the show.
1:39
Um, just a quick disclaimer.
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This is not therapy.
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And so if you are local to Tennessee, please reach out either to us at
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Anchored Counseling or to OCD Nashville.
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And at the end of the show, Amy can share more about her practice.
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Um, but we would love to see you and we're located, um, we're actually neighbors.
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So you're right.
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Your practice is right up the road from us.
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Um, so we're located just south of Nashville in Brentwood, and
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we would love to to see you.
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And if not, we encourage you to reach out to someone local.
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To someone local to you.
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So we are going to be talking today about all things OCD and.
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OCD recovery and this big, Amy and I were trying to decide what we wanted
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to talk about and I was kind of between three or four topics and so we are
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just here to talk about the world of obsessive compulsive disorder and Amy is
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really a true expert on this and really looked up to in the field and so we
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are certainly blessed to have her here.
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On the show today and even as a part of the Nashville mental health community.
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So welcome Amy.
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Thank you so much.
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It's um, I, I always, I'm, I'm actually doing the work right now of not allowing
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my imposter syndrome to come out and correct you about some of these words
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like, Oh, expert or, or things like that.
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So I'm glad to be here.
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I know I'm that way too.
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Or I'm like, do I, sometimes I walk into the office and I'm like,
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what, what do I actually know?
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Do I know anything, but you do and, um, yeah, you are an expert.
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And I understand as well that it can be hard to receive that affirmation
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and to really just soak that in and, um, claim that if you will.
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So I'm just curious, I would love for you to share a little bit more about
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yourself, about the practice and the type of clients that you guys see.
3:45
Thank you for that opportunity.
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We've been open, so the name of our practice is the Nashville
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OCD and Anxiety Treatment Center.
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A lot of people also know us as OCD Nashville because that's kind of our
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social media presence on Instagram and Facebook and places like that.
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And I got into this field For well, to back way up, I was in a Ph.
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D.
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Program for psychology and really thought that I was going to likely be
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a faculty member somewhere, you know, doing research, doing academic work.
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And then I was in grad school.
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Two things happened.
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One after the other, number one is that I got a diagnosis of OCD
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myself, and I had had symptoms since I was about six or seven.
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Just didn't, didn't really know what they were.
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That happened, and then right after that, I was given my first opportunity
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to work with a client with OCD.
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And I was like, uh oh, here we go.
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Speaking of imposter syndrome, right?
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Um, I just, I became fascinated with OCD.
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Uh, with this field and this work and I find the treatment of OCD to be endlessly
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creative and collaborative and effective.
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And so I ended up, uh, getting my degree, ended up doing some research in the area.
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And since then it's really been my, my my passion and I haven't looked
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back and, and, um, and I do, uh, consider myself somebody who likes
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to do a lot of different things.
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So I, I think, you know, OCD affords that amount of, uh, variability day to day.
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So I opened up in 2018, I opened up this clinic and we have grown, we have one
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location in Brentwood, we have one in Mount Juliet now, and we're able to serve,
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I think we're about, we're almost to 650 clients and we have, um, 18 therapists.
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Yeah, it's been, it's been a labor of love.
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It's also been a lot of labor, which you and I have talked about, but,
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um, but that's a little long winded.
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My nuts a little long winded.
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Uh, Synopsis of the clinic.
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Yeah.
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Gosh.
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Yeah, and I can certainly, um, just attest to that.
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Yeah.
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It is a labor of love both being a therapist and
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wearing many hats like we do.
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Um, this morning I was vacuuming and swiffering the kitchen in our office
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and then I saw a client and then I had a meeting and then we're doing this podcast.
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So I can certainly relate to just the many hats and I'm, I'm like you in
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that way where I really enjoy changing things up and, um, kind of dabbling in
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different things at any given moment.
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Um, but I am curious when you are seeing someone with a new
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diagnosis or, um, perhaps they don't know that they might have OC.
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So for those of you that are listening, sometimes we abbreviate
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that we drop the D and, um, we, we kind of abbreviate it as OC.
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But what is that like for them to receive that diagnosis?
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I'm curious as well.
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I think a lot of times it gets missed in the therapeutic world.
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And so, um, you know, we are known for the treatment of eating disorders
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and sometimes clients have been in therapy before and have never had
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treatment for their eating disorder.
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And I, I understand that that's probably similar to the, to
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your experience with clients.
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So can you just speak a little bit more to really why OCD gets missed and what
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your clinical thoughts are on that?
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Yes, I think a lot of people, despite there being increasing public
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awareness of The heterogeneity or sort of variability of OCD, the
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different ways that it can show up.
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I think there is still this reliance for many clinicians
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who don't specialize in OCD.
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There's this reliance on the presence of overt physical
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compulsions that are somewhat stereotypical in nature, I would say.
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So your classic cleaning and checking, evening things out,
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wanting things to be just so.
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And I don't at all want to invalidate those.
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symptoms.
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Those are true symptoms of OCD.
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That's sort of the tip of the iceberg.
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Um, and yeah, and so I think part of it is that certain content areas are
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either overlooked or, or misperceived.
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And then part of it is that sometimes there can be mental compulsions.
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So in terms of areas that are overlooked.
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We know that one of the most common manifestations of OCD is this
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intrusive, unwanted, persistent thoughts of a taboo nature.
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So they might be thoughts of violence toward loved ones.
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Again, that's not, or just people in general, animals in general.
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And they're, they're what we call Ego dystonic, meaning they are not consistent
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with what that person wants to believe.
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It's almost like somebody just, you know, climbs up on your shoulder
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and yells into your ear like, you know, go, go hurt that person.
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Or they can be, um, of a sexual nature of a blasphemous nature.
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It's really anything that kind of, you know, Subvert your values
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or makes you feel like, um, you, uh, kind of out of left field.
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So that's a huge category content wise.
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And then, as I mentioned, too, uh, you have covert compulsions.
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So these can be things like mentally reviewing something
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over and over and over again.
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um, counting to a certain number, there are these kinds of invisible symptoms.
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Um, even avoidance itself can be a compulsion.
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Um, so I, I, that's a broad answer.
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I'm glad to get more into detail, but we do see it a lot.
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Um, did you have any follow ups before I get into like what it's
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like with clients in the room?
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Yeah, no, I mean that all, I'm just like soaking it in as you're sharing, that
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all tracks and makes a lot of sense.
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And I think oftentimes like the taboo piece that you shared, perhaps there
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is a level of shame that a client is experiencing and they are not wanting
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their therapist to know that they're having this thought or there's like
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the thought about the thoughts of the meta thought of like, Oh my gosh,
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this must mean that I'm a bad person because I'm having these thoughts.
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And I'm, I'm the only person in the world that struggles with this.
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And so there's lots of different reasons, I'm sure.
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why OCD gets missed or even misdiagnosed as generalized anxiety
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disorder, um, and not to discount the pain and suffering that might come
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from generalized anxiety disorder.
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But I'm sure that all of those pieces are kind of moving puzzle pieces
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to the equation, um, that maybe proceeds when a client comes to y'all.
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Yeah, I think that's right.
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That's very well stated.
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And then at worst, I think sometimes there are people who overcome this
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tremendous amount of shame and self judgment and they disclose symptoms.
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And unfortunately, if they disclose them to a therapist who
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doesn't understand OCD, they might misinterpret these as what we would
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call egocentronic or wanted thoughts.
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And they might kind of say things like, well, let's make sure to keep
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people safe from you or keep you safe.
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And, and that's feeding, you know, That's feeding the intrusion.
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That's feeding the obsession.
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So we definitely need better education about that.
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I think it's a real honor and sort of a sacred space to be able to sit
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with clients who are able to bravely state, I've had these thoughts.
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And guess what?
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I've not had them once or twice.
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I'm having them constantly.
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Maybe they're having them about me when they're sitting across from me.
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You know, I could get up and harm you or what if I did something inappropriate?
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And I just think that there is such a, it's, it's so special for us as therapists
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to be able to hold space for that and just normalize it and say like, yeah.
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That's kind of how it works, and furthermore, not only am I here
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to, you know, provide space for you to talk about it, but we have
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some really effective tools to help you respond to those thoughts in a
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way that's not going to hurt you.
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Feed them.
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Sure.
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Sure.
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Yeah, and I think when a client hears that there's so much hope in that and so
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much Empowerment and that's a lot of the work that I know that your clinic does and
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mine does as well around like cultivating hope and providing an effective treatment
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plan plan with evidence based therapies, um, and really letting a client know
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that we're like in it with them.
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Um, that's all just such beautiful work that you all are doing.
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And yeah, speaking to the psychoeducation, I think it's twofold.
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I definitely know that you all are out and about, um, you know, teaching
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on, you know, the symptoms of OC and how to spot it if you're a therapist
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or perhaps you're not a therapist and you're wondering whether you have OCD.
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So I definitely think the psychoeducation and increasing that is an important
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piece of even recognizing the OC so that you can get appropriate treatment.
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And one thing that I talk to many therapists about in the community is
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just this idea that in grad school we don't get a lot of training
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on, um, kind of more nuanced.
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specialties, and I think that there's maybe even room for that.
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So a lot of the people on my team treat eating disorders and
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body image concerns, and we don't really get much training on it.
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And I think the same is true for perhaps the specialization of OC and
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Um, so I think there's maybe many areas of improvement, and I know that they
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certainly have a lot to teach us as we're going through graduate school programs.
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But, it can just be, um, a lot when you exit your grad school program and you're
13:14
maybe expected to know how to diagnose all the things and how to screen well
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and ask appropriate assessment questions.
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It's like, it's so much for any new therapist.
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It's so much, and then there's this further question around, well, do I
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want to then seek training opportunities in licensure, which provides a broad
13:34
base, kind of a more generalist base basis, and then knowing when to
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refer out for specialty treatment, like eating disorders or things like
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that, or do I want to specialize now?
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And of course, all those common kind of clinical, uh, skills are
13:50
going to be taught, but they're really taught within this.
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Um, with respect to like depth in a particular area, um, which is certainly,
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you know, which is certainly kind of how we've developed our clinic, which is, you
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know, we're here to, uh, that's why I call it a treatment center and not a counseling
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center, even though we have folks who stay at the clinic for, you know, As long as,
14:11
as it's helpful, you know, we're not like, well, you get, you know, 12 sessions.
14:16
Yeah.
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Not real life, but it is also, you know, because it's so directive
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and it's so, um, goal driven.
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That was important for me to have that in the title, but I think like another
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thing we were thinking about talking about today is ERP in particular.
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And I think that that is, I know I'm putting the cart before the horse a
14:43
little bit, but, um, I think there are also a lot of stereotypes about what it
14:47
means to use particular treatments or what it means to do treatment generally.
14:52
That it, it sort of misses the boat of being dynamic and collaborative
14:56
and creative and compassionate.
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Other good words that start with C, apparently.
15:02
No, yeah, and I mean, yeah, thank you for sharing and I definitely
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want to hear more about your take on, um, I know you've mentioned
15:08
compassion, providing compassionate ERP and just what that means for you.
15:12
But yeah, I concur.
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Our, our practice does have counseling in the title, but we function a little
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bit more like a treatment center as well.
15:20
Well, as far as like the urgency around treating the diagnosis, a lot of times
15:25
people come to us and there's just pretty severe or significant pain and suffering.
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And so we want our clients to really have a treatment plan in place and,
15:33
and perhaps a medical team or dietitian in place so that they can really, um,
15:38
start to feel better because I know that they're suffering and a lot of times
15:41
with OCD or an eating disorder or both.
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clients are really suffering.
15:44
But yeah, tell us your thoughts on what the stereotypes are
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that you have seen around ERP.
15:50
I'm so interested to hear.
15:53
Well, and I will say I think that, I think that these notions of So, first
16:00
to back up, ERP is exposure and response prevention, which is an evidence based
16:04
treatment for OCD, and it consists of gradually and progressively helping
16:10
people kind of move toward things that would otherwise, you know, that would,
16:16
that spark anxiety or would otherwise be avoided, while also reducing the.
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Extent to which people are using compulsive behaviors like handwashing
16:26
or reassurance seeking or, um, counting, checking, what have you.
16:31
And so it's kind of those two things in tandem, um, and it
16:34
has a great evidence base.
16:36
But I think part of the reason that ERP gets a bad rap is because, like
16:39
any other treatment, it can sort of be applied in a really heavy
16:43
handed, rigid, and uncollaborative, um, sort of unilateral fashion.
16:50
And so a lot of times, and in fact, I just wrote an email today to somebody
16:55
who, who kind of, you know, they, they want to get treatment for OCD,
16:58
but they've heard things about ERP.
17:00
And the things that they've heard are, well, goodness, are you just going
17:03
to make a list of everything dead?
17:06
invokes distress in me and then sort of forced me to confront these things.
17:10
And, um, I told this person, I'm just really glad you brought that up as a
17:15
concern because No, because no, no, that's not, that's not how that works.
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In fact, I tell people when they come to therapy, which is such a brave
17:24
act of self advocacy and curiosity, they're already doing an exposure.
17:30
Absolutely.
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Yeah.
17:32
Nine times out of 10, the bravery that it takes for, for folks to show up in our
17:35
offices and say, I'm afraid about this, or I have these thoughts and I haven't told
17:39
anyone, you know, that is an exposure.
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So I think the stereotypes are like, well, if you have contamination OCD,
17:45
they're going to have you eaten off the toilet lid or the toilet seat.
17:50
Um, no, you know, it is, um, Now I have had, I work with kiddos too, and sometimes
17:56
when we do wild out a little bit, we'll have, you know, we'll just have a, we've
18:00
had a, there was a kid we worked with once, a while ago, who was talking about,
18:05
um, eating Oreos off the floor and we call them eos and we had like a Florio.
18:10
I love it.
18:11
. We did it.
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Okay.
18:13
But like that is, if that's empowering to sort of go above and beyond what's
18:17
typical behavior, sure we can go there.
18:19
Most of the time that is not necessary for exposure therapy.
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In fact, for a lot of people.
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The way that I conceptualize exposures are, hey, what are
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your symptoms preventing you from doing that you would otherwise do?
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Period.
18:35
Absolutely.
18:35
Yeah.
18:37
And that might be like, um, you know, for a lot of people, it's very values based.
18:43
It's, I want to get back to going to my place of worship.
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but I'm nervous.
18:48
I'm nervous.
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This is going to come up.
18:50
Okay.
18:50
Well let's do those kinds of exposures moving you toward things.
18:54
I want to be able to hang out with my little niece regardless of whether or
18:58
not I'm having these intrusive thoughts.
18:59
Okay, well let's do baby steps toward that.
19:02
Um, and so I think it's, it's, it's.
19:06
compassionate, consensual, and clear.
19:10
Sure.
19:11
Sure.
19:11
Yeah.
19:11
Yeah.
19:12
And I mean, this, I love this verbiage that you're using.
19:15
And yeah, I mean, I actually did see a post the other day and I actually thought
19:18
of you because it was talking about all the problems associated with ERP.
19:23
And I was kind of thinking like, wait, ERP is amazing.
19:26
We actually use it quite frequently.
19:28
Um, in the practice, for those of you listening, we talk a lot to clients
19:31
about approaching versus avoiding and Um, just that psychoeducation, that
19:36
avoidance typically makes anxiety worse.
19:38
And so I love everything that you're sharing, um, and I am
19:42
absolutely on board for this.
19:44
And I do think that there's maybe some misconceptions that sometimes can be
19:49
fueled, I think, in a negative way by social media or, you know, the media.
19:52
All of our accessibility online, but yeah, the consensual piece, the, the clear
19:57
piece, the collaborative piece, um, And, and also I think that you guys do a great
20:03
job around providing psychoeducation, like what ERP is and why we do it to
20:09
face those fears so that we can lead a more Meaningful and values based life.
20:15
I mean, all of that, I think, makes a lot of sense to me.
20:18
And if I were a client that would make a lot of sense to me to, um,
20:22
something that we see in the practice that we're consistently encouraging our
20:26
clients to approach is, you know, maybe perhaps a food that they've avoided
20:30
for a long time and they want to be able to go out to get pizza with their
20:34
friends, or we see a lot of, quite a bit of social anxiety in the practice.
20:37
And so really looking at, yeah, I want connection with other people and
20:41
I want to experience, um, belonging.
20:44
And I know that I need that to, you know, lead a meaningful life.
20:48
So yeah, doing values work with clients, I think is just such
20:52
a rich part of, of our work.
20:55
Yeah, I agree.
20:56
And I will say that ERP, it's very rare that Any, I think, you know,
21:02
any, any clinician who's really clinically minded and not sort of just
21:07
a technician is not doing a treatment like ERP for me is very compatible with
21:15
a lot of other treatments, you know.
21:17
Absolutely.
21:18
Yeah, cognitive work, motivational work, values work, mindfulness work.
21:24
And so I think there is this understandable tendency sometimes,
21:28
especially in social media and so forth to kind of look at the bare bones version of
21:32
exposure and response prevention and, um, and think about just doing it in a vacuum.
21:38
And in my whole Well, you know, something that's very important to me
21:42
is I recognize that the trust that it takes and the therapeutic relationship
21:47
that it takes as a groundwork for helping people to challenge themselves.
21:53
And in fact, we have some people who come in and that the issue is they have OCD and
21:56
they're challenging themselves too much.
21:58
They're out there grinning through it and then beating themselves up and
22:01
doing compulsions and this and that.
22:03
So I say that to say,
22:07
to clarify that, um, that yeah, all of these sort of like evidence
22:12
based practices can be woven together and can be individualized.
22:16
So you don't just come in and it's like, well, here's worksheet number one.
22:20
You know, or I know some clinicians will say things like, well, do you
22:23
want to do ERP or do you want to do, um, metacognitive therapy, or do
22:28
you want to do inference based CBT?
22:31
And it's sort of like, well, why not integrate what's going to work
22:34
best for you instead of sort of this forced choice that's very rigid.
22:38
Absolutely.
22:39
Yeah.
22:39
And it sounds like you're doing what we call motivational interviewing and
22:44
ERP and perhaps some CBT and perhaps some acceptance commitment therapy.
22:48
Yeah, I love that.
22:50
And each human being is so unique.
22:52
And so, um, their story is so unique as well.
22:56
So of course we're going to hopefully an effective therapist will individualize
23:01
their treatment plan and want them to be a part of creating that because
23:06
I That is that consent piece that I think is so important in our work.
23:11
Yeah.
23:12
Yeah.
23:13
Are you open to sharing a little bit more about your thoughts on the
23:17
intersection of eating disorders and OCD?
23:22
We, you know, you know that at Anchored we see a lot of presentations across the
23:26
spectrum of an eating disorder diagnosis.
23:28
So, I know that our listeners might have disordered eating or body image
23:32
concerns or, you know, you know, may have received an eating disorder diagnosis.
23:36
And we're also here to say that if you have a concern about your
23:40
relationship with food or perhaps you are wondering whether you have OCD,
23:45
no matter whether you've received a diagnosis, you are deserving of care
23:49
and of support and of taking that courageous step like Amy mentioned.
23:54
But I would love to kind of hear your thoughts on the intersection
23:57
of those two diagnoses.
24:00
It's so fascinating because I think, Laura, it's like there's,
24:09
there's this, sometimes there's a clear boundary, you know, or a clear
24:13
demarcation between like when is something an eating disorder, when is something
24:16
OCD and I'm particularly interested in the kind of like the murky middle.
24:20
And so things like orthorexia, which is not a DSM diagnosis, but
24:26
is this presentation You know, frankly, obsessions about eating
24:33
clean, eating healthy, et cetera.
24:35
They may or may not be tied to body image.
24:37
Of course, if they're tied to body image or shape or size, it'd be
24:39
more likely to sort of kick it over to a, to an ED diagnosis.
24:43
But in OCD, we often see it as like a, Um, prevention of internal contamination by,
24:49
um, you know, processed foods or things that aren't, aren't, aren't organic.
24:53
And it, it, it is, um, it can escalate to a point where people are really
24:58
restricting and again, it may not be, it's based on health rather than,
25:02
than body image, a little bit of both.
25:04
So that's, that's one overlap.
25:07
I mean, I think with anything, so we've worked with people who have
25:11
binge eating disorder, uh, Yeah.
25:12
For whom the OCD almost becomes enlisted in the binging and so it's like well I'm,
25:20
I'm, I'm binging and then, but I can't stop until it feels right Which is not
25:26
tied to actual like satiety or body cues.
25:30
It's tied to this sort of just right feeling
25:35
And I think just generally there is this Subtype of sort of like a common
25:42
personality factor of perfectionism or tying one's worth to things being, you
25:50
know, I will say air quotes perfect because that's not a thing, but this
25:54
kind of moving bar of perfectionism, you know, so I'm striving and then, and then
25:59
I don't, uh, and then I meet this goal and then I'm striving harder and harder.
26:02
Um, and so.
26:04
Yeah, any, any follow ups on that?
26:06
I know I went sort of all over the map.
26:07
No, I mean, I, I'm with you.
26:09
I think that, that kind of thread around, uh, perfectionism and just
26:14
that thread to around avoidance.
26:17
That is something that we are talking quite frequently about, you
26:21
know, in our staff trainings and of course with our clients as well.
26:24
And it seems like that's a lot of the work that you all are doing.
26:28
So that's the word that really stood out to me as you were talking was
26:31
just that, that common ground of, um, and again, I know there are different
26:35
diagnoses and they have different kind of presentations and manifestations and
26:38
all the things, but there is that thread I think of avoidance, whether it's, um,
26:44
rooted more in OCD or rooted more in, um, fear of food or, you know, avoidance
26:50
of an emotion, um, but they can kind of show up differently, but I do think
26:53
that's a commonality between the two.
26:56
I love what you just said as well, that idea about avoidance of emotion.
27:00
And I know in acceptance and commitment therapy, that's bafflingly often
27:04
called experiential avoidance, which to me is not intuitive.
27:07
I'm like, I guess it is an internal experience.
27:10
Yeah.
27:11
You know, it isn't for either eating disorders or OCD.
27:16
It is not always.
27:18
This external feared outcome, right?
27:21
It's not always this, um, idea of for OCD.
27:26
You know, if I don't do X, Y, and Z, then something bad is going to happen.
27:30
Sometimes it's if I don't do X, Y, and Z, or I don't do it just so,
27:34
then I'm going to feel something bad.
27:35
so overwhelmed and so distressed, so distraught.
27:40
I'm not sure if I'll be able to handle that.
27:42
And so, yes, it, it goes back to what we were saying too, about integrating
27:47
different therapeutic modalities.
27:49
So people sometimes need a little bit of like distress tolerance skills
27:52
again, from dbt or things like that, so that they can Sort of whether
27:58
I would use your analogy here.
28:00
They're weathering the storm, right?
28:02
They their anchor is I am practicing weathering this storm and I have
28:07
some skills to do so So it's not just like well that scares you go do it.
28:12
Oh if that were true, you would have done it I mean most people with OCD are
28:14
like I don't want to live like this.
28:16
They would have done it So we help sort of scaffold and, and so forth.
28:21
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
28:23
Yeah.
28:23
And I, I just am with you on that.
28:26
And I do think that emotion piece and even like myths that I believed
28:30
about emotion before I started my own therapeutic journey a while ago.
28:34
And so really working through some of those myths with clients, I think can help
28:39
them perhaps be more successful at doing ERP, um, just this kind of idea that I
28:45
can handle hard things and I can tolerate.
28:48
Being uncomfortable.
28:49
We are absolutely doing that work with clients in our practice, whether
28:54
that's tolerating fullness or resisting the urge to engage in an ED behavior.
28:59
It's similar in that way to OC, like I can tolerate being uncomfortable and we need
29:04
repeated kind of practices around that to be able to trust that we can tolerate it.
29:09
So yeah, I love that work.
29:12
Yeah, that is so well said.
29:14
I don't know if that has been an affirmation yet.
29:16
about tolerating uncomfort.
29:17
Yeah, we can, we can have that.
29:19
What would you say is the affirmation?
29:21
Yeah, I can, I can tolerate whatever uncomfortable internal sensations
29:29
arise as I'm working toward living a life in accordance with my values.
29:33
I'm wordy.
29:34
If y'all want to like make that shorter, that's fine.
29:37
But I love it.
29:38
I'm here for, for the wordiness.
29:40
And I just think you're so wise.
29:41
And so I love it.
29:43
Um, I'm curious, how can our listeners find you?
29:47
Um, any last kind of nuggets of wisdom that you would like
29:50
to leave today on the show?
29:54
Well, as far as nuggets of wisdom, I guess I would just say if
29:57
there's anybody out there who is
30:03
Hearing, you know, parts of themselves in the kinds of things that either one of us
30:09
are saying and they've been reluctant to explore that or afraid to explore that,
30:15
it's never too late to get into therapy or start doing some of that self exploration.
30:24
I know, again, I said my symptoms started probably around age six
30:28
and I was diagnosed with OCD.
30:29
I want to say I was 24.
30:32
So, um, and you know, and you can read some scary research that says
30:36
things like, well, the longer time that has elapsed between appearance
30:38
of symptoms and effective treatment, you know, the worse the outcome.
30:41
And, um, You know, those are there's correlations and it's never too late.
30:47
It might take a little bit longer or it might not I feel like for me
30:51
there was this lightbulb moment and And so that's that's what I would say
30:57
in terms of the Just just something final that I want to say and then as
31:01
far as finding us we are We're in the Maryland Farms area of Brentwood for our
31:08
clinic for those of you who are local to the sort of greater Nashville area.
31:13
And then we have a location as well in Mount Juliet.
31:17
Um, and so that would be sort of physically where to find us online.
31:23
We're OCDNashville.
31:24
com.
31:25
On Instagram it's OCDNashville.
31:28
And I also have a book about thriving in relationships when you have
31:36
OCD, so kind of looking at the more relational aspects of OCD, and that
31:40
can be found on Amazon or, um, With, uh, my publisher, New Harbinger.
31:46
Amazing.
31:47
So, I have two things I want to say.
31:48
First, if you are not following OCD Nashville, I feel like I repost
31:52
every single one of y'all's posts.
31:54
I'm like, I promise I'm not stalking y'all.
31:56
But they're so good.
31:58
And Amy actually does the, you do the drawings, right?
32:02
I do.
32:03
So I've been a little bit remiss.
32:04
I haven't, I haven't been as active, but yeah, I do some little digital comics
32:09
in, in an effort to render some pretty complicated, I think, mental health
32:14
concepts into like digestible nuggets.
32:16
So you'll see.
32:17
See those there as well.
32:19
And it is phenomenal.
32:20
And I have personally read Amy's book.
32:23
I cannot recommend it enough.
32:24
I know that we recommend it to many clients in our practice.
32:27
So please look Amy and her practice up.
32:30
Um, we're so glad just to have you today.
32:32
And I know Lauren says hi and, um, but yeah, thank you for your time.
32:37
And as we close, is there any homework that you would like to give
32:41
our listeners for them to kind of marinate on or think on after the show?
32:49
Yeah, let's see, you know, one, one, I think now big caveat here,
32:55
reassurance seeking, seeking reassurance from others is something
32:59
that we often do in relationships.
33:01
It is a normal part of life.
33:03
It's also something that we do if we have a lack of information about something.
33:06
So if I'm not sure about whether or not it's safe to go on a hiking
33:13
trail without having, you know, uh, whatever those ices are.
33:16
spikes for snow, right?
33:17
That's a reasonable question.
33:19
Now, if I ask an expert that somebody who's been on the trail over and over
33:22
again, they say, you don't need it.
33:23
And then I seek out three or four more people.
33:26
Okay.
33:26
That might be sort of compulsive reassurance.
33:28
So what I would challenge folks to do is think about.
33:33
Are you, do you ever find yourself asking for reassurance that is truly just sort
33:40
of to assuage anxiety instead of in the service of getting new information?
33:46
Um, just notice that, be curious about it.
33:48
You know, many of us do it.
33:49
Um, many of us who are people pleasers do it more than others,
33:52
but if I got it, me, here we are.
33:58
Um, But be curious about that and then the homework is, after you've sort of
34:03
developed an awareness of that, see what it's like to maybe try to resist that.
34:10
Does it stick around forever?
34:11
Or does it sort of fade over time and help you develop a greater sense of
34:17
what it's Sort of trust in yourself.
34:20
I love this homework so much.
34:21
And yeah, I have personally worked on this in my own therapy and I'm here to
34:26
say it's not necessarily easy when you start, but this is why, um, ERP works,
34:32
right, is to really build that confidence.
34:35
It's in ourselves and to, to build that trust in ourselves.
34:39
So thank you, Amy, for your time today.
34:41
I know that your time is so valuable and we're just so grateful to have you on the
34:45
podcast and I would love to have you back.
34:47
Perhaps we can have Lauren with us next time around, but we would
34:50
love to have you back just to learn more from you moving forward.
34:53
Thank you much.
34:55
Appreciate it.
34:56
Bye.