Latest / Sales Trajectory Podcast / Building Queensland’s Next Era: Growth, Design & the Decisions That Matter - Naomi Herzog, Director of Growth and Strategy at Marchese Partners Architects,

Transcript

Building Queensland’s Next Era: Growth, Design & the Decisions That Matter - Naomi Herzog, Director of Growth and Strategy at Marchese Partners Architects, · Sales Trajectory Podcast

• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by Naomi Hertzov, Director of Growth and Strategy.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Marcese Partners Architects.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Naomi.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Great to see you today.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Jay.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to be here.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got some exciting news.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you share that right before we start?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's great to have professionals on our podcast who are taking on new opportunities in their career.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about what's happening in your world at the moment.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just took a new role with Marcese Partners Architects coming off a four year stint at Thomson Adset Architects, which was a fantastic opportunity and uh really allowed me to grow professionally.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been able to now translate those skills and what I've learned from the last four years at Thomson AdSet into this new role as director of growth and strategy at Marcese.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very focused on the Brisbane market for obvious reasons, but Marcese's naturally and organically grown over the last, I think, about 18 years now here in Brisbane.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they've just are really ready to hit their straps and they look they were looking for somebody to help them get into, you know, basically build the business and take it into the new era.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So very exciting to be a part of that and to help drive and facilitate that.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Such an incredible bunch of architects, and they've had such an amazing reputation to date.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just really helping them formulate a plan and a strategy and looking at those sectors which they naturally fall into, which would be multi-res and hotels.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a very strong history and seniors living, and that is going to translate beautifully into really chasing some of those large-scale multi-res projects in Queensland.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: So not just in Brisbane, but certainly a Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast as well, because as we all know, they are hot to trot those markets and they're doing some beautiful luxury residential projects on both those coasts.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an exciting time for me.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it was uh yeah, it's a bit of a crazy story.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh very long ago when I was uh young and pregnant, I was a bit disillusioned by what I was seeing, just particularly in the property sector and just re even just the residential sector.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we came out of the floods, 2011 floods, and we were looking for a house, but we were looking for a place to rent and also a place to eventually buy, like within those 12 month period.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I just was shocked at the quality of housing that was available to young families in Brisbane.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I really I I just went down this rabbit hole of there's got to be a better way.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's got to be a better way to build, and there's got to be other options there, um, particularly for young families, you know, who are looking for uh a house that's not a boxed air-conditioned brick four-bedroom home, something a little bit less traditional, somewhere people can really feel like they're a part of the natural environment as much as not living in an air-conditioned box, basically.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so and also a home that's quality and that there's, you know, certain aspects of it, such as installation, fan, screens, you know, everything that comes with a comfortable and quality home.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So to it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, hundreds of square meters of space, but certainly a home um that is well designed and is good quality and has what it you need to survive a Brisbane summer, really, ultimately.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's that is what I was looking at.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the homes, the rentals that we were in, some of them didn't have fans, some of them had enormous mould problems, you know, there's so many things that it just was extraordinary that young families and I was about to have Tobias, my second, and it was really demoralizing bringing him home into and put him in a a room which was riddled with mould.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't matter how many times I got the clove oil out, it just seemed to keep coming back.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it it I just felt it really took me down a rabbit hole.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I started looking into monolithic domes, expandable polystyrene kind of spray that you could put into that and then render it with a natural like limescale rendering, which would obviously help to combat any of the emissions that would come out of that styrene product.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, just looking at different ways of doing it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, you go down the journey and naive and um just no experience, and you start to realize that there's a reason why people don't do that.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's because the councils won't let it, and uh apparently your neighbours don't like anything that's out of the ordinary, or and same with uh developers who have got covenants over estates.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, after lots of different research and trying to find somebody who would help us do something a bit different, we we came across Dan Burnett, who was an architect who was starting out in shipping container designs, and that was when we embarked on the home that we built, which is a shipping container home in Oxley.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really the moment in time where I realized this is what I want to do, this is what I want to be a part of.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: We completed the house in a lot longer time than we're surprised, surprise.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So Dan Burnett runs Block Modular now, and we were his very first project.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: We were the Guinea P project with the uh indeed.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Block Modular just won the um award for best residential home in Australia.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they won it for the three sisters out at Stratty, which is an incredible project.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it all started with the little old house in Greenview Street in Oxley with Dan.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a journey, and as much as it was difficult and challenging, I felt like I was I felt so alive, but I it just it really sparked that passion for property and how can we do things differently.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I got into it.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I then looked for a job at simultaneously at at going into this project.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to get a job with a project management firm that in construction so that I could learn um a little bit uh more about how to manage these kind of projects more effici effectively.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I started at Gallagher Jeff and that was that the rest is history.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I never looked back.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so pleased I made that decision and uh it is taken to me to where I am now and it is just been such an incredible journey and something I'm genuinely passionate about and think about all the time.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So business development what it means to me, I mean, in my world it's business to business, so B2B.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of what we do is client relationship building and looking to align ourselves with other partners in architecture as well.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a a real big shift that we're making um at the moment, particularly any savvy architects are learning that relationships with other architects are just as valuable as relationships with clients and other stakeholders in the industry, other consultant services and engineers and things like that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it is really about relationships and it is really looking at strategic relationships that are going to benefit your business, whether it's direct client relationships, whether it's other architectural practices, structural engineers, you know, whatever it may be, looking strategically at your business and how you can leverage relationships to grow.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, that's fundamentally what business development in a B2B kind of situation is.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is also about maintaining relationships and looking at ways to continually improve those our service as well.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's being more efficient in our workflow, I don't I don't profess to have all the solutions to that or know, you know, all the solutions from a technology or workflow positioning or anything like that.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I do know that there are if something's not working, that it's worth exploring because if it brings back hours in the day uh to our their team, then it's worth it because we are we are needing to look at ways to deliver more efficient ways to deliver architecture all the time.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is a tough business, it's a tough business model.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So the more we can work on building really deep, long-lasting relationships and look at really efficient ways of delivering our service, I think those two are really the most important aspects of a business development role.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And facilitating that change as well, you know, just being that person in the business that's positive and always looking for solutions and really helping to bring other people along for the journey.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it's scary and change is hard, but just being that positive kind of reinforcing energy that's like we can do this, you know, it's just step by step explaining the why to everyone as well, why this is going to be good for them, why this is gonna benefit them, how is it gonna work for their individual daily lives.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, I think uh business development is is very much about relationships and and efficiencies.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're able to look at it's easier to get caught up in the areas that are potentially not really doing the job you're meant to do.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what I love about your position there.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're able to take it where you want to go, but you're also able to align that with the company strategy.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to us a little bit about the clients, the the business current or some of the projects business is working on, and then maybe lead into where you're sort of looking to grow.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um a couple of examples of projects that we're currently working on is Chevron One, which is a uh really large-scale 41-level um apartment, luxury apartment building on the Gold Coast.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: That one is uh the clients Benson Property Group and an extraordinary project being delivered by Icon Constructions.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah, something else.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is luxury at its finest, and it has been one of those projects I think that's really gone through the tough times of COVID, and we're they're about to close it out this year.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think everyone, as much as it's such an impressive project, I think everyone on that project is pretty keen to say goodbye to us and see it opened and functioning and and have the residents move in.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: But from scale and quality, it is just extraordinary.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it was one of the one of the projects that's that really, I suppose, excited me about coming over to Marcase, knowing that Marcese was on that project.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other major project that they've currently just gone into construction with multiplex.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the biggest and most impressive Tier One contractors in Australia, they're uh developing Palmera, so they've been designing Palmera and now they're going into construction with Multis.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the biggest project they have done today in the Brisbane office, which is 52 stories, 347 apartments, and incredibly again, very high-end luxury.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is where the market is.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's extraordinary.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Who are all these people buying these multi-million dollar apartments?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, uh it is pretty impressive.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've seen the renders, the interiors team here are just extraordinary.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the client on that one is central equity.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: These these are the kind of scale of projects that this firm does.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they've done a lot of seniors living in the past, they've done a lot for Aura, um, and they've done a lot for Retire Australia as well.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So they have a an incredible reputation already for high-end luxury living.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really exciting, and I think it's really obviously where the market is as well at the moment here in Queensland, both on the Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast, and in Brisbane.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I'm most excited about is helping them realize and catalyse on that incredible experience and having the team here and knowing their background.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been having little interviews with everyone at the moment, uh, just trying to understand their background, who they are, what they've done, the projects that have excited them the most.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the sheer experience and scale of project that this team has been involved in is so impressive.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can't I I'm blown away actually by some of the projects that these guys have been a part of.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I must ask the question here that I would love an opportunity to ever have a look at any of these projects if you're able to get a an opportunity to take a visit.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: It would be like a kid in a lolly shop.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love love going on to construction sites or uh development sites.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's incredible.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose if you look at it right now, and I was talking to someone the other day, so let's let's move in towards the what's happening in the future of Brisbane and the transformation of the city.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty incredible.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, we've both listened to Brisbane.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for many people.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and I talk about this from a style's perspective.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you look at it, we're in this transition of getting ready for the Olympics.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: The city is completely changing, as you mentioned, there's a lot of high-end quality development going on.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, this is a great opportunity that a lot of people want to get a pace of the action off.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it potentially also could be a bit of a trap for a lot of people as well.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I suppose what you don't want to be doing is taking on projects that don't really suit your needs or where your business really wants to go to.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So from you from your point of view, I mean, you know, is all the work good work to get from from your side.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, where do you see this all going at the moment?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're in 2026 now.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's not that long to go.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's right.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Looking at the current pipeline, what's currently under construction or about to go under construction in Queensland right now, it is genuinely extraordinary.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not only do you have, you know, almost, I think, double digits now, they would be in the capacity expansion program, which is all the ho the new hospitals that are being built.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got tens of billions of dollars worth of work happening in that space.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then compounding that, you've got an Olympics going on as well.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And everything that has to happen as part of that, you know, we are, yes, um, lots of lots has been happening in Brisbane for the last 10 years, and it's a completely different place, as you and I well know, to what it was, you know, 15 years ago.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's completely changed.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: But there's still a long way to go before it becomes a city that can host an Olympics.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of challenges and there's lots of things to do.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what's happened and what we're facing at the moment, and I'm hoping that things do calm down and change a little bit, is just that sheer escalation in construction costs, the industry shift and and a lot of decisions and a lot of projects not being built purely based on construction costs.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So town planners and QSs are insanely busy and have been insanely busy for the last couple of years.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: But when it when the hard realities of the QS uh estimates come back and they realize that those construction costs do not fit on that viso, those projects they just they go on hold.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had often said, you know, particularly at my time at Thompson ad said, if you're not building a hospital or you're not a part of the Olympics program, you're not going to be doing much else.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I really hope that's not the case.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I really do hope that we are able to find a way through this and look at more innovative ways to build and look at more efficient ways to build.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I don't know this what the solution is, but I think in tough times like this in crisis situation, a lot of innovation does happen because everyone's backed into a corner and they have to find a a better way of doing things.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's it can be a really exciting time for Brisbane because it has to be done.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: We need places for people to live.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: We need we ha we're committed to an Olympics.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: The IOC are going to ensure that we deliver an Olympics.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that commitment as well for the hospitals.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've ever been to a regional hospital in the last few years, but they are all long overdue.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's pretty dire the situation.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it is good to see that happening.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Seeing it all flood into the Queensland market at the same time was confronting.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: There is collateral damage because of that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there are, I think there's a lot of opportunity.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just hope that we are not going to get stuck in this situation where construction costs actually stop the rest of the industry and the sectors like, you know, seniors living, for example, aged care, education.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so many other sectors that are going to be impacted by these rising construction costs.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, we we may face a situation where you, if you are not on Olympic or Olympic related work or hospital projects, you're not doing much else.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I really hope that that does not happen.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fair point.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and I suppose um I was talking to someone this week and they're saying how the um the Victoria Park precinct's being handed over shortly uh for the project.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got that that off that big project there.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know there's still a lot of talk about the cross river rail that's still going.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just so much happening here.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we deal with a lot of a lot of our clients and a lot of our industry uh building wall frames and roof trusses for for new housing.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, there's definitely a lot going on.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose it comes back to that to that point before, like we were talking about is that not every job is a good fit for what you're looking for.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the part where if everyone sort of stays in their lane.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I really like the part you spoke about, about also about you know, networking with other architects and other designers.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been doing a lot more of that recently as well, because I think it's good to collaborate because I think some people are like, hey, this is not a good fit for us, but we know someone who really specialises in that area.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did a lot of that um at my previous firm and you know, it was really successful and it it opens up opportunities as well for both businesses.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that could like as much as sometimes, yeah, you you do say, okay, this probably suit this firm better.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of the time what we were doing was we were looking at our weaknesses and and our gaps and how do we fill that those gaps with another firm.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: So bringing the two firms together to actually have the most compelling team.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and you know what, like it's always it's always um a journey, you know, you don't always get the first project.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: But we certainly did get projects together, and that was really a great partnership and it worked really well.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you you work through, you know, a lot of the nuances and things like that, you know, about collaboration and making sure that people the communication lines are always opened and whose, you know, roles and responsibilities, making sure there's clear delineation between the two, but also very clear to the to the client, you know, what each firm is bringing to the table and how it is unique, but also how you come together as as one firm is really crucial in all of that messaging and narrative and working that through.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh that is the future here in Queensland.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Scaling up and employing a whole bunch of people specifically for a project is really damaging when you have to let them if you have to let them all go culturally.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for those that core staff, it's there's nothing worse than having to let go a team of 20 people because you don't have the follow-up project.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So partnering also helps to alleviate that.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: But also we looked at a lot of um contract work as well, like contractors.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So coming on board who people, particularly people who are it's in their senior years, they don't necessarily want to commit to a full-time role.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: They want part-time work, work their hours, um, but they're very senior, very efficient.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're fantastic.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're f fantastic to be a part of your pool of resources.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it gives them the flexibility that they're looking for, but also it gives the business the flexibility that um they're looking for as well to scale up and down according to to projects.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there are we do have to think a little bit more laterally about how we approach taking on new work.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, back to your point, Jace, um, just looking at projects that suit your your skill and capability and experience.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't stress that enough more, like really understanding the skill set of your people and pull it putting two teams together that really complement each other but also f like fill that that team structure in the ways of you know making sure that everyone that's is in that team is fulfilling a skill set that is needed, required in that team, not doubling up, but not having gaps in there as well, is so crucial to a successful project.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: A company who can look after their staff who are really talented and understand um, you know, have have great experience, but also you know, that ha are able to mentor and train and bring other people along for the journey.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Companies who can keep those people, and they're normally that project architect level, are going to be the winners really in the long term.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of architectural practices are losing project architects to contractors and to project management and client side as well, because they're offering a lot more money and sometimes a better work-life balance as well.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, and something that I'm seeing here at Marcese is really acknowledging that, you know, how can we provide a better culture, a better work-life balance, and provide, you know, the tools of tools and teams and structure the teams in a way that everyone feels supported and you can get really good outcomes and deliver really well.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, that's the future.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Burning people out is not the future.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: They will just leave.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's refreshing to hear because we're doing a lot of work in that space with our talent acquisition and we love working with companies that that have that strong culture and that strong growth mindset.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think if I go back to what you mentioned before, I think it's a great idea as well.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, yeah, you know, here's a chance for somebody that may have sort of hung the boots up and like, oh, maybe I didn't want to retire, maybe uh, you know, I'd be keen to do one or two days.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the part as well about.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Taking on that mentor sort of role.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people are craving for it.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: They want it.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're right.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we don't, we always try and, you know, at when we're working with our clients, we want to make sure they're focused on the role.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: What's the outcome for the role?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: We want new business.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, don't bog them down doing everything else.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Give them the tools and the pathway and the culture to be able to really specialise in what you love doing.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's done with yourself.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were looking for that next strong opportunity to do what you you do and and your passion.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really refreshing to be able to chat with you about that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's the government doing to house a lot of these people that we need to do all this construction in Queensland at the moment?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's such a great question, Jace.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: It I think there's so many different types of housing.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and everyone has different levels of income and different needs as well, you know, particularly where they live.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that doesn't always match up.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like you think about the workers in Queensland at the moment, particularly like frontline workers, you know, nurses, paramedics, teachers, police force, you know, they are all servicing our city.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the dense city is.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: For them to be able to live in the city or close by to the city and be able to get to their work um, you know, and do the massive shifts, you know.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: They were working night shifts, they were some of them are working twelve hour shifts.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot of pressure on them in their working life.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And to expect them to commute their the level now that they're going to have to, because they can't afford to live in a close proximity to the city, is just extraordinary and not viable.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And people will leave and there will those regional centres, I don't know what would will happen because it will take there will be the these teething problems in the meanwhile while satellite cities are being become more established.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: But in the meanwhile, that you even look at those satellite cities, you even look at regional areas and regional towns, it's so unaffordable to buy in those areas as well and to rent.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the solution?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: We do need to look at a variety of different types of housing and we really need to look at the NIMBYism that happens in Brisbane and on the surrounds of Brisbane.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like we really need to put mechanisms in place to to stop just one person completely derailing a affordable housing development or a seniors living development or something that, you know, is actually going to increase density in the areas that we need it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, you know, areas that we need it are ones that are connected to transport, connected to amenity, connected to parks and recreation, you know, these are all things that we as taxpayers pay a lot of money for.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So why would we not want more people being able to utilize them and and access them?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because that means that those services eventually improve as well.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just find it extra and it's where the infrastructure is, you know, the the sewerage, the water, you know, all of that is also that's where it all is.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a lot that needs to happen in that space, and I get it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Brisbane's been a fantastic place to live, you know, it's been a big country town for a long time and people have lived a wonderful life.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I often say, you know, people in Brisbane want to live in the city, but they just want to live the city with no people.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that's not how cities work.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I find it extraordinary that th this is still the conversation and that there's still a lot of issues um that are presented with creating density in the city.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I I understand because huge towers is not the answer everywhere.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think there needs to be a a real variety of different types of accommodation.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I do believe that, you know, smaller um multi-story, but smaller multi-story and and different levels and variances of that is a much better um solution and and does create better community and enables people to live um, you know, just a better a better life.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're more connected to the environment, they don't feel so disconnected if they're in a huge tower, um, but also looking at what that looks like on the ground on the ground floor as well, you know, uh ensuring that there's beautiful green corridors so that people can actually walk easily around um and in the shade and and it's inc encourages people because those cities are cooler because there is so much vegetation on the ground, making sure there's plenty of parkland so that families do feel like they can live in the city as well and access those great schools and be able to walk to school and keep the traffic off the roads and all those kind of things.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like making sure that our pathways and our connections within the city are really nice places to be encourages people to get off the roads and and walk more.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, we really do need to think about that and really create that those affordable homes for the nurses and for the teachers in our cities.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what that looks like, you know, I don't fully know.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's lots of great examples all over the world.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Where Jurgen here, he looks at co-living, he's very passionate, he's a German and they do it co-living really well overseas.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that is very much about a stud studio apartments with um shared communal spaces.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: So beautiful big, large shared kitchens and barbecue spaces and big, you know, dining areas where people can come together but then also be able to retreat into their own little sanctuaries where they can have their own ensuite, their own bathroom, and sometimes even a kitchen ad and enough space for them to feel like they can and really good for workers, for example, people who uh don't have a family.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: But there are other examples of co-living that actually support family units as well, which is really interesting and really exciting.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they are all genuinely a lot more affordable to live in, a lot more affordable to build because you're not building fifty-two uh kitchens, you're building like five.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's a there's a lot to be said for that kind of development.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, modular is another big one that will really help.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know not necessarily it it's I know it's on par within situ from a cost perspective, but it is a solution, particularly to get housing quickly into the market.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think there's a there's a lot to be said for that.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's really high quality.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is really high quality product.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there's modular um organization suppliers that have come into Queensland now like Modscape.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: They are a design-led modular solution, which is super exciting because the product that they are producing is beautiful and flexible.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's not, it doesn't look like a donga.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't look like a half-finished shipping container.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: These are really beautiful developments.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, we just we need to shift the way we think.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Where I live here, you know, near the city, there's still a lot of land along both the north and south side of the river.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: So perfect opportunity to utilize modular construction.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, you don't want to build ghettos, right?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, you can build where you can get temporary accommodation for workers and things like that because we're going to need it.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, look, I I think the the impact of uh you know shortages of housing and rent is huge.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other part I I've really I've seen some impressive work as well by the government is you know, for example, where they've they've taken away that one home on a 700 square meter block in wherever, and they've replaced it with, you know, the as you said, the new style of living, which is the the sharing and the you know utilizing and incorporating like CLT cross you know, cross-laminated timber into some of these projects as well.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: From what you're looking to work with in these sort of projects, say for example, you've got a fibro home on a 700 square meter block, what can you do with that as far as the future?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you're working with someone, what would you recommend to put on a on a site like that?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, 700 square meter blocks is great.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can put a duplex on there.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: If I i if it was me and I that say there's no planning restrictions on that site, I would put probably a like a three-level apartment block on there with a large floor plate, but a beautiful surrounding garden on the edging and enough room for a couple of kids to kick a a soccer ball on on a stretch so that every apartment, you know, has a really beautiful outlook and they have a large outdoor deck uh area as well and you know, three to four bedrooms per apartment with a, you know, really decent sized living space.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the future.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, and also duplexes, obviously, you know, some of the duplexes are getting a bad name because of the lack of acoustic acoustics treatment.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you build them well and build them with quality, you get great outcomes from duplex living.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And bringing, you know, in the city like they do have done in European cities, but even Melbourne and Sydney, bringing the homes forward right up to the boundary, allowing that to happen so that, you know, you're maximizing the amount of land that's available as well.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I would be pushing for that, like first principles, just to push the boundaries on planning to make sure that the home can come right up to the edge of the boundary, almost to the footpath.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, just just off the footpath.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that maximizes the amount of land space to to build, but also to be able to have garden and trees at the back so that it helps to keep the homes cool, but also the route surrounding homes as well.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, just a a more beautiful place to live.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to see a tray line or anything like that is so powerful.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing, isn't it?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes you look at it now and then you look back at all the inner city suburbs and you had all the nice little, you know, cottages and the very small front yard, but the bigger space at the back.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of like we're going back to where it started.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the thing.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, hey, look, as a timber supplier many years ago, we we were very happy when everyone decided to build up because more timber.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, uh the more you do build up, you've got the the extra cost of doing that.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, giant towers are not always the answer either.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: But more density, a hundred percent.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, you could probably really like if the if there was a bit more of relaxation, a bit more common sense um around how we use our lots of land at the moment, I think y we could get some really clever density on a lot of that inner ring.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: A small home with high ceilings and lots of natural light and ventilation does not feel like a small home.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people just need to get kind of and and a connection like an eyesight to a garden or or trees, all those things contribute to a small space feeling really like large and and lovely and and and beautiful to be in.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And good acoustic treatments as well.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big big fan of um ensuring that, you know, in dense housing that you're not able to hear your neighbours and you do feel like you have some sound privacy as well.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So these are all things that we can do uh and and easily can be designed with good design and and ensuring that the integrity of the design is not compromised when it gets into construction.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: These are all things that can easily happen to help create fabulous density that and people are able to live in the areas they want to live in.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think my mum is, you know, 70, she works she lives in Toomba.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: If she was able to afford to move into Brisbane into an area that she really likes, you know, somewhere that she can walk, Balimba, for example, you know, somewhere she can have a little town home um and be able to walk everywhere and enjoy the river and get on ferries and feel ex a accessible without having to drive, she'd move in a heartbeat.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: But she just she can't because she's like, there's no way I could afford anything in Brisbane.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sad, that's where she grew up.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's where she raised her kids.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like she'd love to come back.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it it is it is interesting.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think if I look as myself as an example, it came from 400 square meter home into an apartment that's probably around 120, 130 square metres.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it it it's a great living environment.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I love about the area we live in, I love about Brisbane.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a there's a lot of airspace.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know if I go across the river into near certain those areas, it's very, you know, high, high density.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I love going over there to visit, but I think for me it's about enjoying the living environment.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I must admit, you know, you do drive along certain roads and you see some projects are just built for cost of building and not really a lot of care in design and architecture.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's definitely you know great to partner with someone like yourself where you can say, Hey, we want to do something, but we want it to be, you know, really livable and a and an amazing experience to to be able to create.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's been really good to hear more about you from in that area.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: The experience this team has in seniors living and understanding, truly understanding what it means to age well and the well-being side of it and what that looks like, how that translates into the homes that are designed is extraordinary because they really there's a real science around it and a real depth of thinking, and that then translates into everything from how they design um their corridors and their balconies and their bathrooms and their communal spaces.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of these design principles come into every space that they design.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the also the really exciting part of working with a firm like Marcese is they have such a strong interior design team and they really understand how interior and exterior and even the urban urban design all comes together.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: They all should be at the very beginning, should all be having the one conversation at the very beginning, and then that's beautifully then translated through to everything, every aspect and every part of the experience that a person would go through in one of their developments.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's the future.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it's exciting working for a firm who's living that future.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: It is exciting times, and I think that experience in seniors living and what they've done there can so beautifully be translated into all other developments.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there are some real core principles about well-being and then what that looks like and how that can be translated at everyone's home.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's really exciting times here, and can't wait to see um yeah, some of the future opportunities you work on.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Naomi, it's been great to catch up with you today, and I love your work and I look forward to talking with you again shortly.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Dave.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me on.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a real honor.