Latest / (re)Visitation Rights / RVR Halloween 04: Texas Chainsaw Massacre The Next Generation | Leatherface Was in His Bad Bitch Era

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RVR Halloween 04: Texas Chainsaw Massacre The Next Generation | Leatherface Was in His Bad Bitch Era · (re)Visitation Rights

• Revisitation Rightspod: Ready for this bullshit? Can't believe you like this fucking film. Texas Chainsaw Massacre Ford, the new, or not the new, the next generation. ⁓ released in 1994. Actually, same same year as ⁓ see same year as Shawshank and Stark difference in films. Stark. It came out in two it came out in ninety five. Ninety five? I thought it was ninety four. Yeah. No, it says nineteen ninety four right here. Release date was ninety five. It was sh it was supposed to be released in ninety four, but ⁓ that's we'll get we'll we'll get in. We'll get into that. We'll get into that. Get to it now. So so I I sent something ⁓ in in ⁓ the podcast group chat, but there was there was a lot going on with this movie that happened, which production rights was kinda going back and forth. ⁓ Matthew McConaughey was in trying to think of his breakout. role movie, but it was a movie when he was the the lawyer. A time to kill the kill. I got a story about that, but we'll keep so he was in that. And then I think that was also when Renee was also in Jerry Maguire. So what I was reading, I was just doing a whole bunch of just deep diving. They ended up I guess holding that movie because I guess they thought that we have these two up and coming act actor and actresses in this movie that we can probably, you know, capitalize on that. So I think that was a story of why they kinda held that movie. Because both of those movies were red hot in the movie theaters and they were getting critically acclaimed. And I guess the movie that we end up seeing that was released in the movie theater was a different cut. I guess they cut some scenes. I guess there was a scene in the beginning that showed I think Renee's character was assaulted by her dad. That kind of gave kind of context to why she was so fierce and strong against Leatherface, but that was taken out. So it was a recut. And then it kind of changed between production studios, there was a lot of lawsuits. It was it was a mess. It was a mess behind the scenes. It was a mess of a movie. But Matthew says that Matthew says that this was he doesn't take anything back. He does not regret making this movie because he remembers when he was a first time actor making $300 a week on something on set. He's like this is this is where the magic comes from this type of stuff. This indie low budget movie and I think he really leaned into this and he really liked to play that villain because he doesn't play villains often in movies. He definitely leaned into it. Definitely leaned into that. Listen, I I honestly I got nothing to say about this movie. I so I guess I'll start. I I liked it for the first maybe 25 minutes. So this is my first time watching. Is this your first time watching? Okay. Yeah. ⁓ I remember st I remember ⁓ when Netflix used to mail TVDs to your house. I remember ordering Texas Chainsaw Massacre, one, two, three, four. And I remember watching up to three. And I said, you know what? I don't want to watch four. I think I just one, two, and three were enough for me, and I think I just sent it back without watching four. so I thought I was getting so the first twenty, twenty five minutes, I thought I was getting like a prom night, but the leather face version of a prom night. So I was like, Okay, you know, I'm I'm here for that. The guy, you maybe the They leave the group leaves ⁓ in a limo and the limo breaks down, you know, something along those lines. And ⁓ so I I was into it. And then I wasn't. It it kind of fell off a cliff after after the prom scenes. I it it's like they they started making a movie and then got bored halfway through with it and was just like, All right, we're just gonna throw it and see what happens. Then it was some weird fucking government conspiracy and it just got it got really bad really quick. And because if it wasn't for the first 20 minutes, even though the first twenty minutes weren't good, it was setting I thought it was setting up something different. ⁓ this would have been like a zero point five rating for me. This was awful. This was like a chore for me to work through. I've never Seen Renel Zeg Zellweger that bad in a movie. I'm not a huge fan, but she's not a bad actress. She's a good actress. I'm just not a big fan of hers. Just, you know, aside from a few movies, I didn't I'd never really liked anything she was in for the most part. but she was bad in it. Like I know when that's when she was first starting out and everything like that, but you know, completely different from that in Jerry Maguire. And then I think Matthew McConaughey was he played like a I think he should have played Leatherface instead of this weird tow truck driver slash bionic man slash weirdo like over the top. He was shot, stabbed, fucking beat. Was I dunno what the fuck he was doing with that other girl. And it was just some wild off the wall shit throughout the whole movie. That just didn't really make sense. It didn't really feel like it flowed together at all. Everything just felt like, ⁓ I got an idea. Cool, let's just put this here. ⁓ I got another idea. Let's do this type of scene and put it here. It just didn't feel very cohesive to me. ⁓ I don't know what the fuck ⁓ this is another case of Leatherface just not being scary. He was basically like a fucking screaming cartoon, then he putting lipstick on, he's putting on a dress. He's a bad bitch. He was a bad bitch. He said I wanna be a bad bitch in this movie. I guess so. But then if you're gonna do that, do it all the way, you know. If you're gonna go that route, get him in the fucking woods chasing them with a fucking chainsaw and a dress. Go completely like that. You know A bad bitch in fa with fashion sense. I I just think you needed to pick a fucking lane because the tone was all over the place. It was horror, it was comedy, it was satire, it was a fucking conspiracy movie, it was I I don't fucking know. I don't know what it was. ⁓ You know where this ⁓ this film premiered first? Yes. Yes. Where? ⁓ South by Southwest. I can see it. I I don't really see very many good films coming out of South by Southwest. Damn. I just personal So I I also went back. So I also went back and I looked at some of the reviews and some of the reviews from movie critics, they actually liked this film when it came out. I I I don't see how. I know you liked it. And I'm not trying to be a dick, but I I don't see how anybody can like this. Like there was not one redeeming quality to this movie. It wasn't shot well. It wasn't edited well. It wasn't acted well. There was not one redeeming quality to this movie for me personally. What I have came to understand about Leatherf like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the entire franchise, it's it's pretty much riding on the first one's coattails. And I don't know if I I mentioned any other episodes where we reviewed this, but when I went to Hollywood Nights and there was an entire crew of Teenagers all with Texas Chainsaw Massacre shirts on. I'm like, this franchise is alive and well. And I was, you know, thumbing through Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it now, but I was thumbing through like yesterday and people were I think it was Texas Chainsaw or something else, and so many people were like, I love this movie, I love this film, I love this film. Part four? I think they've only seen this one. No, I think they've only seen the first one. Okay. And they kind of discount and they and they discount two to two through four. I think it's very easy to go from one and then the remake that came out in O three and then I think ⁓ six and then I think probably kind of discount the everything else that was around it because you know they just made a joke of himself from two to four. Yeah. Well, and then seven, eight, and nine. Seven eight. Three D Leatherface and then remake. The re remake. I don't know if we have a story for three D, but we'll get there. We'll get there when, you know, we review that one. ⁓ yeah, I mean I ca listen, like I said it on the first one, I can see. How you know people, you know, it had its moments. It just didn't I don't know, it just didn't get you there. ⁓ but like, I don't know, like Leatherface doesn't have a he doesn't have anything. Like he's not he has no code. He has no, you know, he's just not a villain of any sorts. He's just there there. Like he's not there's nothing to him. And there's no method to his madness. Yeah, nothing. Really? It's like, yeah, the family points and he goes and kills. Like it's not and I I I get it. If you're gonna if you're gonna pretty much say he's you know, mentally stunted or whatever, be consistent throughout the first four at least. You know. He's in this one he's he's like screaming for no reason. He's you know, and it's not like he's It wasn't it wasn't a brutal movie. There was no real brutality except for the last part of the house where just, you know, it was just people getting stabbed, shot. Like it was just not a Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie to me. Again, there was no suspense also. And like that's the one thing that I would give the first one is there was a lot of suspense to it. You know, there's a lot of suspense to even part two, not a lot of suspense, but there is suspense. Part three, there's plenty of suspense in it. This one doesn't have suspense and This one also didn't have an interesting family. Like they were they weren't creepy. They weren't disturbing. They were just fucking obnoxious. Sexy? Sexy? Yeah, like I don't want, I don't want the Sawyers to be like, you know, like a good looking. Like, that's not the Sawyers. Because she was ⁓ old old girl was looking at the cop and she was flirting. It's like, ⁓ no, you want to close, you want to you know, like I don't I don't know. There was just so much wrong with it. What is a porno? It it's it felt like a cheesy 80s porno horror. If you were to kind of create a horror movie around a porno, it would feel like this. ⁓ you I know we just like if the writing was such a mess, like if it would have just a little simpler, just like develop a premise of any sorts, not just throw everything together. It's like, all right, we're gonna throw conspiracy, we're gonna throw fucking prom night, we're gonna just do whatever we want and just mix it together and hope it works. ⁓ so if you said it was recut, I'm curious to see the original. Yeah, I think they cut maybe fifteen minutes, but I mean I'm just looking so it was acquired by Columbia TriStar. And then there was like a lawsuit because there was supposed to be an expected date for them to release it. They didn't because they were trying to get their royalties. It was it was a lot, a lot going on behind the scenes with this one. A lot going on. And then it I I guess when it first released released, it only released in a couple of cities. Orlando was one. And then it went, you know, worldwide and then and yeah, it was it was messy. Looks like it was just really messy behind the scenes, just trying to get it. Yeah, so it says in on September twenty second, nineteen ninety five, in twenty seven theaters including Atlanta, Georgia, Orlando, Florida, Madison, Wisconsin, Portland, Oregon. This cut of the film ran ninety five minutes. So I think the original one was a hundred and two minutes, which ran at South by Southwest when it was premiered. And it says it w had glowing reviews. I don't know about that. But it's also South by Southwest. So I don't know. South South by Southwest is not one of my favorite film festivals. I put that nicely. ⁓ a hundred and two minutes for I I don't think any horror movie should be over ninety minutes. I I think a sweet spot for a horror movie is seventy five to ninety minutes. ⁓ like a real horror movie, not like this elevated horror where you need forty five minutes to set up and then forty five minutes to close it out and then you need a story in there too. So, you know, but it's just ⁓ a hundred and two minutes is just too long for especially Texas Chainsaw Massacre. So I'm and I'm also a little confused. So the director and the writer of this one, Kim Finkel. was the writer of the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre in nineteen seventy four. I thought Toby Hopper wrote that or he just directed it. It was both of them. It says both of them. Hm. Okay. I don't I don't know. I just ⁓ like I didn't like the whole dress thing. I didn't like him fucking throwing temper tantrums. Like Leatherface is not too throwing fucking temperature. Yeah, cool. You want to wear a dress fine. But like I said you you have to commit to that. They didn't commit to it. Like you can't just put it on for ten seconds and put on lipstick again and then tie it into the prom and then never use it again. Just show it. Like I no, you gotta I think you needed to commit to that. If they were to commit to that, then I would understand what kind of movie it was. But that was just thrown in there. Leatherface and Yeah. ⁓ Skirt and Tim's I mean, would that be so much worse than Matthew McConnie and his fucking remote control leg? Which all the purple juice is just flowing out. He had a fucking Had a fluid leak. ⁓ it was just like, yeah, it was just leaking everywhere. It was everywhere. So one through four, ⁓ as much as I hated two, this was two is a masterpiece compared to this. ⁓ and I I think the thing that really pushed me over the edge was the secret the secret society or secret service, whatever the fuck that was. You've been doing this for a thousand years and you're just a part of the plan. Yeah. No. That that right there I was That just pushed it from like a two point five down to a one. I mean it's just ⁓ I don't know. Original four would be I think four would be at the bottom. Four, one, two, and then three. I'm going four, two, three, one. I st I still think one is the I think the cinematography and the family in one saves it from being an absolutely awful movie. Because that like I said, that dinner table scene and just the cinematography of it probably Two of the best things in horror movies ever is that specific dinner table scene and the cinematography and the first Texas Chainsaw Massacre. ⁓ there there's not much in horror movies. What? You ⁓ you can't legally do that anymore. those conditions would never fly. Like er every actor would walk off the set. It depends. Unless you're maybe Tarantino. I mean it depends on what kind of actors you get. You know, if you if you get people that are willing, obviously. But I don't know, I kinda felt like if we're going by the movie, Matthew McConaughey was scarier than Leatherface. Like I would f if I was in that situation, I would feel more fearful of Matthew McConaughey than Leatherface. Like Leatherface was just not scared. He was a brains. And that was not saying much because he played a fucking idiot in the movie. I don't know, man. I think if they would have leaned into the prom night aspect of it, I think it and then just made it like a straight black comedy, like part two, I think it might have been a little better. It started really good. It just It started good and then it just started to slowly go down the downward slope and it never recovered. Yeah, it's just that they they started perfectly like all right, we're getting to prom night. ⁓ they're stranded. You know what's about to happen. And then it shit the bet. Which sucks because it it was on its way to being probably the best entry. If it would have even been half the movie prom night was, it would have been the best entry in the in the in the series. Actually no, I can't say that because there is one entry I really did like. I actually enjoyed. Only one. But ⁓ that's where I know her from. ⁓ Tony, who played Darla. She was in Darla was the home. It's I mean the ⁓ the easy woman. She was in ⁓ varsity blues. That's where I know her from. I don't know who you're talking about. The one that They came into her house at the very beginning and then we found out later in the movie that she was a part of the family. ⁓ the ⁓ yeah, the Matthew McConaughey's was something. Something. Sister or lover? Or both. Both. Love sister lover. Yeah. Alright, since who'd she play in varsity blues? She was the teacher who they found at the strip club. Really? I I would have never put that together. Alright, so since you did kind of like this movie, how would you defend this movie to somebody In 30 seconds or less. 90s hokey over the top goofy. Yeah, but you said that about part two. Yeah. But that was eighties hokey goofy over the top. And and trust me, I've seen so many bad horror movies that this one doesn't s phase me one bit. But now it's an entry to what people consider one of the better franchises. I'm just that's very questionable. I mean that's what the internet says. And you know the internet has never grown outside of the first one or we're talking about the listen, that the first four. I I have read that this is considered one of the top ten horror franchises. I mean, that doesn't say much 'cause I'm just saying. There's not can we name ten fran horror franchises outside of these four? Yeah, you can. Pumpkinhead? Is Pumpkin Head in the top ten? We gotta see what the new one. The new one comes out next week, right? I didn't know there's another one coming out. ⁓ I was thinking ⁓ like what is it, ⁓ Wishmaster or Deatmaster? One one of those? Wishmaster, right? I mean, isn't there like enough of those that there's a lot of bad qualified as a franchise? Yeah. You c we'll see. What what can you not count? You can't count Candyman, right? There's only three. Is Hatchet considered? I think Hatchet has four, so I think you can consider that a five. I think Hatchet is better than Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Which hatchet? The Mary Hatchet? No, the one the one with Daniel Fisher or Daniel Harris. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's eight or nine. Yeah, Mary Hatchet. ⁓ I think that's only there's only four of those. No, there's like seven. The one where they're in ⁓ Kane Hodder plays Hatchet. He played Michael Myers too, right? And not Michael Myers, ⁓ Jason. ⁓ I I would I would say Hatchet. So if you go to the top if you go to the first four, I would say Freddie is probably the best horror franchise in for the first four. I don't I don't know if there's they're saying Evil Dead is counting. You can count Evil Dead. they said you can count Insidious, the Conjuring. I guess that's the same thing. Yeah, I don't know. Problem is those are PG 13. I don't think you could really count PG 13 as a real horror. That's more just jumping. I mean obviously you have to count it. It's just my personal opinion. I don't think you can count PG 13 as as real horror. I don't think Evil Dead was PG-13. No, but I think the conjuring and insidious series. I think most of them I don't don't even know if ⁓ any of them are rated R. No. I mean it's not I mean they're good. I I I enjoy them for what they are. I just I I don't know if I can can you know there's no gore. There's no nudity there's no language so therefore it qualifies for PG thirteen. Yeah, I j I just think that there's it I think if it was rated R, it probably would like if it and everything that came with being rated R I think it would probably be the best horror series because they are technically good. But I just don't have to. It's really bad or it's good. There's no like ⁓ it's okay. There's like seven of ⁓ Yeah. I mean to to me, ⁓ you know, I don't know how everybody else feels, but I don't I don't think there's a middle of the road. I think you need middle of the roads in franchises. ⁓ Like Texas Changewell Massacre had no middle of the road so far. I guess no no three is kind of middle of the road. Yeah, but now it's about to pick back up with ⁓ the next installment. They didn't have a standout though. Well, we're talking about one through four, right? Yeah. I think one stood out because of, you know, the feel and the cinematography and, you know, just the overall aspect of it to the start. But I don't think it was a standout movie. Same with three. Three was kind of middle of the road. Two and four were bad. I d I don't know. I I think that's something we kinda gotta go over at some point just to see what the best kind of overall horror franchise would be. I I think it's gonna be Freddie for the initial movies before any kind of remakes or anything. Or maybe my maybe Halloween. There's only been one remake of Nightmare at Elm Street and that didn't go over well. Well no, you 'cause I mean you can't Well, you have to count Freddie versus Jason, but I'm talking about like the original like group of movies before it started getting before they just tried to cash grab it. 'Cause this is ninety five, so I think around this time they had a new nightmare. I think that was around the same time that that came out. When did the remake come out? Twenty twenty ten, right? Twenty eleven, something like that. Let me see. ⁓ so West Craven's new nightmare came out in ninety four. Yeah, but I wouldn't And then the remake came out in twenty ten. Twenty ten. Yeah. I don't think the new nightmare is technically a you know. I I would still say it's part of the original series. I mean I have it on D V D, so I still think it's three, one, two, and four for ⁓ for Freddie, but But you know you you know what it is for for this franchise? It's it's the first one that people hold to such a high regard. And then it I think it jumps from there to the Michael Bay production company remakes. I think it'd be one and it's O three and then the O six ones. Those are the ones that kind of prop up this this franchise overall. Yeah, it w when we talk hard of people, I never nobody ever really brings up Text Chain to a Massacre. ⁓ I I mean that I think that's again, I think that just goes back to just like the lack of films. And I don't know, I've I have seen a lot of resurgence. Like I ⁓ that game that game was huge when it came out, I think it was two years ago. And it was all online and people were streaming it and it was really good and it was based off of the original, not any of the newer ones, but you know, you could either play as Leatherface or a family member or some of the people trying to escape the house. Is it a computer game or is it like PlayStation or? You can get it on you can get on PlayStation or Xbox or you or computer. I mean I tried to play a couple times. I never made it out. They got me every single time. I I would never get out. I don't play video games, so it's probably too too advanced for me. Nah I mean you know you gotta you have to be very quiet and make sure that you don't Let them hear you, but Leatherface is already like looking to kill you. And then if you wake the grandpa up, you're you're you're done. If you treated this movie as a comedy, do you think you would have liked it better? Sober or high or drunk or all the above? Any which way that it would be a comedy as opposed to comedy. If you were high you'd be like, Yo, what's going on right now? I've seen bad movies and this isn't the worst. I think ⁓ Lady of the Water, Lady in the Water is still the worst one I've ever seen. As a movie. You know how I feel about Mighty Shyamalan. I know. As a movie, I don't think it's worse. It's not it's terrible. I just don't think it's worse. But I like terrible movies. I love bad movies. See, I don't mind bad movies, but they have to know they're bad. Like I I think that was the problem with Lady in the Water. I think it was trying to be good and didn't lean into the badness of it. I disagree. I I also think he's a great producer too. So any anybody that funds their own movies, I'm always I'm always in for. But ⁓ he had your boy in ⁓ from lanterns in Old. I don't know if you watch Old. You talking about Shamelon or Yeah yeah Sha Shama Shamalon Shamalama Lamalama Lama. He had the what is it? Midsize sedan. That was his name in the movie. You know, actually in in looking at this ⁓ film up to the first four outside of Roger Rockmore and the third one. This produced, you know, two blocks two box office Hollywood stars that came out of this incredibly bad film. You gotta throw in Vigo Mortenson from part three. He's been in some he's been in some movies. He has, but he's no Roger Rockmore. His name is Ken Forey, damn it. Same thing. ⁓ not I mean y yeah, you gotta count you gotta count ⁓ Vigo in there too. So I ⁓ and and I'm kinda th and I guess the question is I wonder if it hurt that they held this movie or would have done better had it came out earlier. Like had it came out before a kill, a time to kill and Jerry Maguire. I wonder how that would have impacted both ⁓ Renee and Matthews, you know, careers. So I I'll I'll alter your question. Do do you think it would have affected Jerry Maguire or a Time to Kill's performance after seeing this movie? No, because Jerry Maguire had Tom Cruise who was smashing box offices at at that time. And then ⁓ time to kill. I actually have never yeah, Cuba Samuel Jackson, Sandra Bullock. I mean they had such a strong cast. It's to kill a mockingbird. This none of these and ⁓ shit, they had Kevin Spacey in here too. Yeah, these movies wouldn't have been hindered by not at this movie coming out beforehand. Not at all. I think if anything it hurt because you saw it it almost feels like these two actors would have had a step back with their quality as actors, putting this out after. Yeah, I think this would have hurt them more than helped them. Especially especially Renee Zellweger. I I thought she was extremely bad in this movie. ⁓ she just didn't give me I don't know, the acting was bad all across the board, but she just didn't give me like final girl energy. Although none of them really the only horror horror movie that they've but they've both really been in. I think. I Dallas Buyers Club was a horror movie. Was it could be. Yeah, I'm just looking at all these movies that I was just scanning their movie filmography really quickly and I don't see anything that they've done that is in the same universe. No, Dallas Buyers Club's not a it was a joke. Dallas Buyers Club's not a ⁓ a horror movie. ⁓ yeah, I don't think I've ever s remember seeing any of them in a horror movie. How to lose a guy in ten days. I don't know that. Yeah, you know how you do that? You wait nine days and then take ⁓ to see this movie. That'll lose the fucking guy in ten days. No, you know, this isn't this is this is this is charming. ⁓ this is charming. Awful. Terrible fucking movie. ⁓ see I this is like short like to me, this is like Shawshank. Like Shawshank was so good. There wasn't much to talk about. This is so bad there wasn't much to talk about. I I know you liked it, so I I really need to understand how you liked it. And I know you like cheesy horror. I like cheesy horror, but this was Not cheesy hard. This was just bad. I think I'm holding the beginning in revere. And then I I don't know, my brain kinda did something weird where it kind of retcon everything that happened after. Maybe it was just in utter disregard. The first twenty minutes when they had the prom stuff set up, I'm like, yo, I'm locked in. Mamba mentality. I'm in here. I'm here. And then I think even introducing Leatherface in this movie cause the girl is outside, she thinks that, you know, there's a a fly or something on her her head. And then he just grabs her and then he puts her in the freezer. She keeps on screaming. He puts her back in, she pops out again and then he puts something on top. And I kinda wanted her to survive, but you know, obviously she didn't. And then they brought back the infamous meat hook. And then that's that's it. They get the gold plated ⁓ chainsaws. You get ⁓ the fucking men in black. And you don't even get the prom night. I mean, that would have been crazy had he just came to the prom and then just started ripping people up. In the dress, in the heels, with the chainsaw. They didn't have the budget for that. They didn't have the budget for it. I would have been okay if they went that way. I probably wouldn't have liked it, but I would have understood it. Like like number two, I didn't like it, but I respected the swing that it took in being campy and cheesy. I probably would have respected the question. You're you're a director, you're a writer, you're on set. Allegedly. And they press play. Allegedly. And you start to see the film kind of play out. At what point do you start to think this shit is going downhill? And is there anything that you can do to change it, or do you just kind of let it ride? And I'm I'm talking in the aspect of someone who has a major production studio behind him. The script's already written. Like, do you rewrite the scripts in the midst of production or do you just kind of try to or you just like, all right, you just gotta we gotta let it rock. So that that to me that's a problem with writer directors, right? So she was the writer and the director of this. So Kim Hankles are he? Yeah. All right. Alright, so he so he was a right he was the right director. so he had to know it was going off the rails to begin with, 'cause the story was like it just wasn't a good story to begin with. Like they they veered from what would have been a good story. Okay. So either he has to reel McConaughey in, but then if you kind of calm him down a little, whatever's left of the movie is boring. So like he made the movie interesting with his over the top take of The character. I think you gotta put a pause on that fucking leg, first of all. I don't know whose idea to put a fucking remote control leg on him was, but that was a terrible fucking idea. ⁓ I think you ha you have to learn how to rewrite on set. Like you need to rewrite as you go. ⁓ you know, even if McConaughey and Zellweger weren't the actors they are now back then, you know, the potential was there, right? So They should have been good enough to be able to rewrite on set as well. So I d I don't know. But you you should have known this was going off the rails relatively quick, depending on how you shot it. You know, 'cause I mean, if you shot all the prom stuff first, then, you know, you might not have known. So you wasted thirty-five minutes already. Thirty, thirty five minutes when they get stranded. ⁓ unless you shot, you know, the the family stuff first, which I doubt because that The prom stuff was probably a little easier to shoot. So usually you get the easy stuff out of the way. I like to get the easy stuff out of the way first. ⁓ I I d I don't know. Like I've had I've made some bad movies and like I know it was bad like probably halfway through. Did what I could to try to fix it and then just try to fix it in post. Some of them I was able to fix. Some of them will never come off the hard drive, locked away. So I don't know. Like you kind of gotta know immediately. that it's going off the rails. But she wrote ⁓ he wrote it. So you know, he wrote Leatherface an address. He wrote Leatherface having temper tantrums. He wrote Leatherface being chased by fucking CIA or whatever the hell that was. So he deserves everything he got. He wrote in this And this was done over s the course of six weeks. Yes. Very small budget, so I What was about Jim also kinda thinking if he were I think it was I thought I saw six hundred thousand. Yeah, six hundred yeah, six hundred thousand to a million. So that's another question. He's seeing this shit go off the rails and he doesn't have the funding to Huh. But you gotta think about it. Adjusted that way. Six hundred thousand back then is probably three or four million now. So if you get three or four million dollars to make a movie now, it shouldn't be bad unless your story's bad and his story was bad. I I don't think there was any saving this movie. I don't think there was anything you could do. It was just a it was just a bad entry. ⁓ I'm trying to think if there's any like I mean, you know what? It did have a little bit of that grimy Texas atmosphere. You know, there was some parts of it where it felt a little You know, had a little bit of that grime in it. I'll give it that. ⁓ and I I will say it's never boring. I don't know if that's because it's so bad, like you can't turn away, but it was never boring. That's pretty much I got for positives. I I don't think I could really and the actors committed to what they were doing. Bad or good, they they committed and they went for it. ⁓ I just think it was it had so much potential to start and then it just shit itself. ⁓ I I I I don't know. I I think fucking it's just so fucking bad. I don't know. Who knows? So we're gonna tell horror stories. It's just Yeah. I I I don't know. You're the one that liked it, so I I can't I can't I can't shit on it for an hour. There's there's not much I can say. I would have never picked a chain Texas change to a massacre though, just just trying to let you know. No one's again no one spoke up in the no one spoke up, so I was like, ⁓ somebody else was supposed to vote. Nobody else voted. I put my vote, we needed a tiebreaker. We didn't get a tiebreaker, Justin. So But I think this is better because you've never seen some of these films. You've already you've already seen Freddie. I've never seen everyone. but but you've seen most of ⁓ I didn't the only one I didn't see wasn't. You but you but you've seen more of them than you have of these films. Yeah. So I've seen one, two, and three. That was it. For night for Nightmare on Elm Street? No, for Texas. For Texas Change of Mask. I saw one, two and three. So four through nine is all first time watches. And they will be I've seen more of those. They will be last time watches as well. No, you said you like one. I liked one of them. But I I I I can't watch it on its own because out of context it won't work. So you watch that one and then you watch the one that came up before. How do you know what I was talking about? Well, there's only I mean that whole universe is all just kind of convoluted, the same way how Halloween is, but ⁓ Yeah, I I don't really like how they they retcon the Halloween franchise, but that's ⁓ we didn't do that one, so I'm gonna let that die. That that that'll be next year's Halloween is Halloween. No, we can do the trash ⁓ screen film that you everyone likes so much and they rear. Nah, we'll do Halloween. I don't know, man. I I I wanted to hear Justin's thoughts too, because I I think this was something he would probably like. Cause he kinda liked two as well. So I I think this is kinda along the lines of two. It's more so more two than it is one three. You know what that I think Yeah, they're they're kinda paired. I think this was missing the brutality and like the vi like just the violence. I mean they they had like the last scene in the house with the shootout. Like why would you put a shootout in fucking Texas Chains or Mascara? The plane just going and ⁓ yeah, that that's where the budget went. That's where the budget went right there. He swipes at the plane. How are you gonna fucking try to hit plane with a chainsaw? That's that's where the budget went right there, the plane. That's where all the money went. I guess so. That and the suits for the FBI agents. And the fucking Matthew McCartney's leg. Taxishain saw in black. That fucking leg. The entire time. And then she goes upstairs, has the gun, the gun is like shooting blanks, and then she's like, And then she jumps out of the window. I have you seen all the Texas Chancel Massacres yet? Or are you still missing? Alright. We'll save it for the end, but nah, I don't want to do it now. I was gonna ask a question, but we'll we'll save it for the last episode. I'll write it down. Cause I think the last episode is gonna be more of a recap because the last fucking movie, I don't think we could talk about that for more than ten minutes. We've stretched this one for fifty minutes and there's no way this was more than a twenty minutes. No, I I think I think Texture Shansol is more about like the legacy than the movies just because of the inspiration and how people revere it and how people love it. I was actually listening to another podcast back and forth from a couple years ago. I I pulled it back up and they actually did review the one that came on Netflix, and they were kind of going into how a lot of rappers actually play. Pull so much from the original Tech to Shansaw and how they were all on the podcast saying, Yeah, I love it, I love Leatherface, but they didn't like this one. So I think we might be underestimating how much people actually love this franchise, even though it's not the best of all horror franchises. It still is probably up there in terms of cult following for how people feel about him. I I I just can't see it. I I I don't see it. I people ⁓ people Killing people chainsaws, what's not what is there not to love for people if you are a fan of horror? See, I I'm a fan of horror. I d I just don't see it. Like I could see the first one and the impact it had and how people take inspiration from that and everything like that and how it kind of spawned a separate a separate kind of horror. But everything after that, like there's no excuse for that. Like you you were set up perfectly to continue ⁓ to get better. And they didn't. They got progressively worse as it went along. Bad writing, bad directing, and they were all inconsistent. That's the problem. There was no consistency. So at least with Freddie, Jason, ⁓ Michael Myers, Hellraiser, even Candyman. It was all consistent. Except for that bullshit that remake Candyman. But that's another fucking story. But they they all have a consistency. No John Carpenter. They were not walking through those doors to for this particular franchise. There wasn't someone who was able to make just amazing stories. And the thing with you know John Carpenter, he Halloween, but he also did other great horror films. Mm-hmm. Wes Craven was able to do other great things. I don't know what Toby Hopper did outside of this Texas Chainsaw. Like I can't look at any other movie and say, ⁓ no, he did this. Like for, you know, Carpenter, up there with Halloween, The Fog is one of my favorite horror movies. And although I haven't seen it, although I haven't seen it, the thing is highly regarded as a phenomenal horror film. So he was able to do multiple things. Yeah. Nightmare on Elm Street, Scream. You know, there's there's a ton of stuff that he was able. So to have two of the top ten horror franchises, you know, even if you don't like Scream, it's still considered one of the top franchises. If you don't like Nightmare on Elm Street, it's still considered one of the top. You know, just like Jason, Michael Myers, shit like that. But they all had really good entries. They've had bad entries, but they've also had middle of the road and they're very consistent story-wise, you know, tone wise, story-wise. Like they do get a little cheesy. Like there wasn't there was what, four and five, like half of four and five, Freddie became he was more about the one liners where his one liners, they were always there, but they weren't as cheap. And like they didn't feel forced. You know, then they started to force the one liners with Freddie. And then Jason became like some mythical creature. You know, it's it it it's hard. The the thing with those, those all those franchises outside of maybe Halloween, 'cause they kinda after four and five, the writing got really questionable. And then they kinda retconned after ⁓ H two O, ⁓ Resurrection. But the the like you said, the the stories they followed. Like Freddie, it was a consistent story. Jason was a consistent story. Halloween was a consistent story. Scream was very consistent, even though they had different murderers, they were still within that same construct of, hey, we're doing this because of you killed or you know, you did something related to a family member. And then all four of these beginning Texas Chainsaw films are completely different families, completely different backdrop. It's not the same. It's not the same family. Outside the only two were O three and O six where we had the same family. It was the only similar cast. Like that family stayed the same. Outside of that, every other Texas Chan style film that they've done has been a completely different set of families. But you had grandpa. I think just grandpa was in one and two. Well, two grandpa didn't really talk 'cause he was just there. He was in the chair. He was in wheelchair button. He was still there. But he didn't he didn't he didn't have any lines. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know man. I I I kinda I definitely feel this is the worst franchise. ⁓ worst I guess you would consider like a top tier horror or more popular horror franchise. I I definitely think it's the worst. I think you could probably say there was three to me, there would be one good entry, two okay entries, and six bad entries into I I I don't think you can say that's a good franchise. When there's more bad than At least if it ⁓ was okay. I'm not. He's got the he's got the reins to do another one. I'm not interested in that at all. I'll see it. I'll I'll I'll go out there and I'll watch it. I'll support it. I mean I'm gonna watch it now that I've seen all nine of these, but I I don't have ⁓ I don't have faith that you know, I don't think anybody I I don't really see anybody making a good entry into this. Like I I think it's Jordan. Very hard. No, because everybody has their own style that they bring into certain things. And even though Leatherface doesn't have like a like a specific tone, like there was no tone to Leatherface. I think people will bring what they normally bring to their projects. And I don't think that belongs in a in a Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie. I I you know they they're all so the only thing that really is consistent is the opening scenes to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, right? It's a group of friends doing something, going somewhere, something happens And then something happens. ⁓ I I don't that's the only consistent thing is how they open the movies, how they get to Leatherface. That's the only thing that's been pretty consistent throughout. ⁓ there was one that didn't do that. It was ⁓ Text Chain cell three D. Yeah, but yes and no. But you still had the friend dynamic to open it. The opening, remember the opening was there they were trying to smoke ⁓ out. No, three D was with Trey Songs. They smoked ⁓ out, they were trying to smoke ⁓ out. 'Cause he did something and then they end up like burning the house. No, no, no. I'm saying the beginning. So I mean that was the opening, but then like the actual start of 'cause that was I guess just s setting up the story so it can go backwards. But I meant like the the friend ⁓ like the friend group, like going on a little like a little bit of a road trip. So they went on a road trip to get to the you know, the house she was given, right? So so it did kind of I mean, aside from starting that you know, one way where they burn the house and shoot. But I think that was more of setting up the weird angle that it took later on. Hey, people were cheering for Leatherface and Matt movie in the movie theater. It's like, woo But ⁓ motherfucker was doing plants and shit and ⁓ feeding food and, you know, it was like what Leatherface is fucking gardener in this movie. But it was ⁓ you know, so I don't know, I just don't see anybody You know what is too? A lot of there's not a lot of great writers nowadays. Like I think you need somebody No. I think you need a I would like to see him tackle a horror. You know, I I would like to see a lot of bigger directors try to tackle different genres. ⁓ because as much as like actors get praised for their range and, you know, and then they get knocked for their lack of range. I think a lot of directors have no range. A lot of writers have no range, you know. ⁓ I think that's something that's missing. Like Tarantino does the same movie nine times already in different settings. He's only got he's only got one more. You know, so I I would really like to see him tackle a horror. Like I would like to see I would like to see everybody tackle a horror, you know, somebody's different perspectives on it. I just don't even know who I think could you know who I think ⁓ pr might have a good promise because they made ⁓ they did a trilogy. The two in the the second and third one were a little sus, but the first one was good in my opinion. I think maybe Ty West, because Ty West when he did X, I felt that film really did lean into that eighties slasher horror type kind of there was a little bit of comedy in there, but that would be someone who I think that might be able to at least visually recreate and make it interesting. So I actually like the third one best out of that. I like Maxine. Really? I did not like X and I didn't like Pearl. Pearl is weird. I see Maxine 2, like, I liked it, but I felt like if they toned down that 80s feel to it just a tiny bit. I think it kind of went just a little overboard with the 80s feel. I think if they just toned it down a little bit, it would have been a good movie. I think it was okay. But I I think that was the best of the entry. X to me was a little boring. Like I didn't That was my favorite one. I didn't really get into it. Shit. So shit, put Mig off. As a scream queen in Texas Chainsaw. And she's already a little crazy, like you know, as an actress when she's on set. So I would think that that would be a really good combination if they could get her running for her life from Leatherface. See, I don't feel she would have. That would be something I would be seated to watch. I don't think she has like that survivor final girl feel to her. Like the vaccine, infinity pools. Yeah, nah. It just she doesn't have that feel to like it's weird because like the one who Alright, so we'll we'll just get into it quickly. So for Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the the one who felt the best was Jordana Brewster. But the one who actually like you look and you like was Jessica Beale. So you can see Jessica Beale being that the one who survives. You know, she has like she's a little more athletic than everybody else was, you know, she but Jordana Brewster played the tougher girl. So I think if you switch, if you put the way Jordana Brewster played that character in Jessica Beale, I think you would have like a perfect final girl for this series. I I don't think any of them had like the whole thing. But those two were probably the best. Like stretch. I ⁓ she would she played a good character out of this franchise. What? In Texas Changes. Out of this entire franchise. Yeah, out of this entire G two. Those two. Those two. Yeah. Yeah. So like What's her name? ⁓ Hardesty from the first one, Sally. Sally. Sally Hardesty. Yeah. like no, she just she was scared and screaming the whole time. Like I get it too. Like that was, you know, the point of it. But like she just didn't really feel like a survivor to me. Stretch was cool. She played like the tough girl role, but the way they made her just it just didn't work. ⁓ the third one was no third one. Absolutely absolutely not. ⁓ this fourth one. Renee Zellweger, I didn't get that feeling from her. She was way too soft throughout. But like Jessica Beale, like she had she has like a little muscle tone to her, like she's athletic, you know, but then When she got in the car and she was being saved, she went catatonic. So it's like you can't be catatonic and then snap out of it instantly and then fight Leather Fiddle. Like that that just didn't like really land. But I I thought the way Jordana Brewster played it was really well. ⁓ she just didn't give me the feel. Like she didn't have the look for it to me. So I think if you switch like put her performance, ⁓ put Jessica Beale in her performance, I think you would have had ⁓ a great like final, like final girl. I that's what that's I remember watching that movie. That's what's big and hard. It's like, ⁓ no, she's gonna make it. Yeah, she's gonna she's gonna survive. I was like, what? ⁓ shit. So I I and like the last the last one was a joke. So I I can't even get into that. But but you know, it like I know that's big and horror. Like you need a strong final girl, and I don't think any of these movies had like the strong the strongest possible, except for the remakes. I think those are the two strongest ones. ⁓ I just think those two particular remakes. Yeah, those two particular. Those two particular, not not the ones after. Not the ones after, just the Jordan Roos the Jessica Beal. I think you combine their performances and put them in ⁓ those two remakes, I think those two remakes would been much stronger. I just think they were they lacked a little bit in each one. But like as as far as like writers go, I think writers and directors to the new one. I I don't see him being a good one for it. ⁓ Tommy or Curry? Curry. I I think Ty would probably be a better choice than him. ⁓ I I can't really see but again, I would want somebody not from horror to try it. Like I wanna I wanna see like Steven Spielberg do a horror. No, he did one. A real horror. Like I w Disclosure Day. It was a horror of a movie. But like I'll like I wanna see people like expand their range. Like I you know, ⁓ writers and directors don't get shit on enough for not expanding their range. Like I as weird as like Guillermo del Toro is, they're all weird movies. Like do something set in reality. You know, I mean they're di you know, they're they're different, but they're all have that weird ⁓ feel to it. So you know you're doing this. Do something set in reality. You know, do something different for you. Like I don't think it's very I think it kind of stifles creativity when you're in one lane constantly. You know, Like I like I said, qu I would love to see Tarantino do horror. I would love to see, you know, Jordan Peel do a romantic comedy. You know, just something Yeah. I mean, he was in comedy. You know, so you have the ability to do comedy. You know, do a romantic comedy. You know, I I I really want to see more of that. But, you know, budgets are budgets and, you know, people want to make money so they're not going to branch out. I I do think though that I do think ⁓ I know you don't see it but I think Mia Golf is I think she would do really good in a Texas Chansaw movie. Well, 'cause she's a screen queen. I think I I think you need more than a screen queen for that. So I think there's like Hora has two different types, right? You have the final girl and then you have the screen queen. I think she's more screen queen than final girl type feel. ⁓ but I I mean I'm not against it. Like she has that very weird ⁓ eclectic like style for it. ⁓ but again, like, you know, just seeing like Jordana Brewster take on six five, three hundred fifty pound leatherface, she's what, five five, a hundred and five pounds? Like she's getting red. And that's the glorious one that I think We've ever seen. No, I think the leather face was a little gory. But that was just wild gore. Like that was just gore for core's sake. Like there was no real Cause you know the scene, he cuts off the face, he takes it off, and then it's like still smoking hot and he puts it on his face where it's like bro didn't even disinfect the shit. Disgusting. He got COVID. Put some rubbing put some rubbing alcohol on that or something, and just like put that on before you put that on your face. But like She's getting ragdoll ten times out of ten. Like the no. Like just just give me somebody a little believable. But I think she had the best performance in the series. As far as like main character you know, main characters go. Yeah, which is it's interesting because that was the first one that I saw. I remember seeing the ri the remake, ⁓ the O three remake, the trailer, 'cause it was advertised everywhere on T V and I just was that was before I was in horror. I was way too scared to see it. And after I saw the beginning I never thought to go back and watch the original originals ever. Like nothing ever said go back and watch the originals. For some reason, whatever. See, and I'm I'm the opposite. Like I'll go watch the original before I watch a remake. Mind you, this is also before streaming was a thing. Blockbuster was still around. I don't think that they were carrying ⁓ Text Chainsaw two, three and four at Blockbuster at that time 'cause it probably wasn't moving. Yeah, yeah, they always had. They had cr like a well, at least by me, they had Nah. A massive power section. Nah, skipped it. Nah, skipped it. That's where I got all the good stuff. I will go there, find the I couldn't even my sis my sister used to be. I couldn't look at No? I couldn't even look at the the the VHSs because I would get too scared and I'll have nightmares. Nah, my sister was going, she's like, All right, Doctor Giggles, let's get shocker, let's get this, let's get that, let's get that, let's get that. And then I'm fucking like eight years old, nine years old watching this. No wonder why I'm so fucked up now. If only that director knew what the shocker would turn into Yeah, all these years later. That term. The term now. If you only knew what the shocker term would be. Well, he did have the finger licking part, so but that's it. Texas chained so a massacre four. Final thoughts? I knew you'd like go watch it. Go watch it. Go watch it. Go watch it to in to just embrace how bad it is. I think you should Fall in love with just the the writing and the directing and the acting. Fall in love with Matthew for the first time. Fall in love with Renee for the first time. Love it all. Embrace it all. Just savor that moment and just think that they were young actors at that point and they did not know that they would become Hollywood movie stars. And I think that is why this film is beautiful. I'm don't go see it. Unless you're watching one. Unless you're watching the whole thing through it, there's no reason to watch for. In my opinion. It's Halloween, so you gotta watch one a day anyways. You do. You do. But try to avoid this one if you can't. Go watch the watch this week. I watched Psycho Killer yesterday, Lake Legacy, and then The new Psycho Killer? Yeah, with ⁓ That was fucking George Awful George ⁓ Georgiana. Awful. So fucking bad. And then ⁓ I just started watch rewatching I started like midway, Friday the thirteenth. I'm watching a new beginning now or a new chapter. With the one where you had the other guy who got pissed because he was so shitty of a father that he let his kid be in a school with people who were need to be reformed and then he got pissed when his his son got killed because you weren't there. And now you wanna start killing people? How about you be a fucking father? How about that? That that's you know. You get into the evil word, accountability. And then and then that that but at at that point that shit was over the top goofy. Friday thirteen was long gone by then. I gotta ⁓ I gotta watch the shining 'cause ⁓ Melissa's never seen it. So we got ⁓ to stay in the ⁓ in the hotel in Colorado. So she's gonna ⁓ she's gonna watch it before we go. So I gotta watch that. I gotta try to get her to watch it. At night, in the dark. All right. I didn't watch that movie for the first time, I think until maybe like two years ago. And Kubrick is up there with me, but you know, I I have a I have like a book for him where he kinda goes through every movie. He was one of those directors that he pretty much adapted all of his movies from books. It's a hard thing to do. But he was also very, very, very tac like amazing with being technical. Cause I don't know, Space Odyssey is still a beautiful film and the topic of that movie is still very I mean I think it's more relevant today than it was when it came out. A lot of a lot of his movies are yeah. Same with Hitchcock. A lot of his movies are more relevant today than they were back then. Just goes to show you time doesn't change. And and and and so will Digger too. It might. I I gotta see it again. I gotta see it again. I I can't that's what I'm saying. ⁓ I'm I'm hearing that it's one of those movies that will age really well over time, but It's also a little cynical and it's talking directly to the audience and people don't want to be talked to and preached down to. So I I don't know. But that's all people do. Every movie all it does is preach to you nowadays. Brandon, done.