Latest / hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic / How Phones and Algorithms Are Slowly Reshaping Childhood, Parenting, and Emotional Health | Dr. Shefali Tsabary
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: The algorithm creators learned our children's brains [00:00:05] way better than we parents know our children's brains. Now we are in a new era of [00:00:10] parenting. We are now directly in competition [00:00:15] with algorithms that are crediting on our children's attention [00:00:20] and attachment, and they are going to rival you in every way [00:00:25] because they are shinier, glossier. [00:00:27] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: They are adapted to your child. [00:00:30] What do children need the most? Children need safety, soothing, [00:00:35] uh, a sense of security to feel significant. Right? To [00:00:40] feel like they belong. [00:00:42] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:00:42] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And in order for those [00:00:45] ingredients to be rooted, the parent needs to be [00:00:50] acutely present and bonded and connected. [00:00:55] [00:00:55] Dr. Taz: My next guest is a global wisdom teacher whose work sits at the intersection [00:01:00] of psychology, mindfulness, and spiritual awakening. [00:01:04] Dr. Taz: Dr. Shefali [00:01:05] is a three time New York Times bestselling author and the founder of Conscious Parenting [00:01:10] and the Life Coaching Institute, where she has trained more than 1200 coaches [00:01:15] worldwide. [00:01:15] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: For them to be on social media is hell [00:01:19] Dr. Taz: [00:01:20] yeah. [00:01:20] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Because they're trying to find themselves through [00:01:25] these curated feeds that are irrational, [00:01:30] unreliable, unrealistic, and the bar [00:01:35] is so high. [00:01:35] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:01:36] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right? Look at these women on social media. You never see them out on the street, but [00:01:39] Dr. Taz: the, [00:01:39] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:01:40] and everything, every post curated, filtered, doctored, [00:01:45] edited, and it really puts pressure on the girl. [00:01:50] To want to be like that because she's mirroring, she's finding herself through that, [00:01:55] and she's finding that she can't be that. [00:01:57] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Who looks like that? Nobody. [00:01:58] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:01:59] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. [00:02:00] So she wonders who she is because she's not getting real feedback about [00:02:05] who she really is. In real time, [00:02:06] Dr. Taz: I invited her to Whole Plus, because True healing [00:02:10] requires more than just treating symptoms. It requires understanding the unconscious [00:02:15] beliefs, driving how we show up in our relationships, our work, our [00:02:20] parenting, and our daily lives. [00:02:22] Dr. Taz: Today, we're unpacking what it really [00:02:25] takes to awaken ourselves and create emotional freedom for the next generation. [00:02:30] Please join me in welcoming Dr. Shefali to the show. This [00:02:35] episode is sponsored by Whole Plus, a holistic health platform built around education, [00:02:40] personalization, and integrative care. Whole plus blends holistic, integrative [00:02:45] and functional medicine clinics with learning resources like blogs, YouTube videos, [00:02:50] and of course, this podcast. [00:02:51] Dr. Taz: So you're not just treated, you're informed. The [00:02:55] platform also includes holistic health quizzes and a curated wellness shop, helping you make choices [00:03:00] that support your body at the root level. Whole Plus is holistic [00:03:05] healthcare designed for real life. Visit us@wholeplus.co to learn [00:03:10] more about the platform. [00:03:11] Dr. Taz: Again, that's HOL ps.co. [00:03:15] Dr. Shifa, I am so honored that you're here. I've been wanting to meet you for a really, [00:03:20] really long time. I've seen your work. I know how involved you're in when it comes to [00:03:25] parenting and the space of conscious parenting, and I'm excited for our audience to learn more [00:03:30] about this. [00:03:30] Dr. Taz: One of the things I know, and I was actually looking at some of your bio and [00:03:35] notes and I was like, I wish I had dug into this earlier in my parenting [00:03:40] career because now my children are 16 and 18 and so much of you of what you say resonates. [00:03:45] So thank you for being here. Welcome to the show and let's just jump right in. [00:03:49] Dr. Taz: Talk to [00:03:50] us about conscious parenting. What does that even mean? [00:03:53] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Well, so this whole [00:03:55] approach that I've pioneered called Conscious Parenting is really, now it's [00:04:00] become such a thing, right? But back then, when I talked about it first in 2010, [00:04:04] Dr. Taz: Uhhuh, [00:04:04] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: my [00:04:05] book, the Conscious Parent came out. Nobody was talking about how the [00:04:10] parent needs to really examine themselves, right? [00:04:13] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And how every [00:04:15] moment that they are with their children. Uh, is an [00:04:20] opportunity to look in the mirror and to observe, to be alert [00:04:25] to all the ways that we project our needs, [00:04:30] our wants, our fears, our expectations on our children. [00:04:34] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:04:34] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And [00:04:35] conscious parenting is about turning the spotlight within [00:04:40] so that you can look at yourself and raise yourself. [00:04:43] Dr. Taz: And so as [00:04:45] parents, you know, walking into parenting itself can be very challenging and [00:04:50] overwhelming, right? Especially as brand new parents. What, you know, what do [00:04:55] we as parents need to be thinking about as we're entering this journey? Or if [00:05:00] you're in, if we're like me in the middle of this journey, or even kind of as our children are about to leave the home, [00:05:05] how does that become practical and tactical for us? [00:05:08] Dr. Taz: What are things that we need to be thinking about [00:05:10] or looking at as we are. You know, trying to examine ourselves, examine our [00:05:15] behaviors, our impulses, those type of things. [00:05:17] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah, there's so much that parents need to [00:05:20] pay attention to, and that's why I wrote these books. You know, one for daughters, one [00:05:25] for sons, because we are now in an unprecedented [00:05:30] era. [00:05:30] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Where parenting has to uplevel itself like [00:05:35] never before. Because it's [00:05:36] Dr. Taz: exhausting. [00:05:37] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. It's now at another level because we are [00:05:40] competing with these algorithms that are so designed [00:05:45] to manipulate, exploit, and profit off our children's attention [00:05:50] and attachment. [00:05:51] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:05:51] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So what do children need the most? [00:05:53] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Children need [00:05:55] safety soothing. A sense of security to feel [00:06:00] significant, right? To feel like they belong. And [00:06:05] in order for those ingredients to be rooted, the parent [00:06:10] needs to be acutely present and [00:06:15] bonded and connected. It doesn't mean you have to be hands on 24 7, right? But you have to be [00:06:20] present. And given that we all are so distracted. [00:06:24] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. [00:06:25] When I wrote my first book, the Conscious Parent in 2010, I had a hard time focusing. [00:06:29] Dr. Taz: [00:06:30] Yeah. [00:06:30] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. And I never carried a phone in my pocket back then. [00:06:32] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:06:33] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So can you only [00:06:35] imagine [00:06:35] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:06:35] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: How much we are missing? I mean, you know, when you go on a train ride, you go on the plane, [00:06:40] nobody's looking up. [00:06:41] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:06:41] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So children need that attuned [00:06:45] their, their mirror neurons need to be turned on to [00:06:50] understand who they are in relationship with their caregivers. I doubt a [00:06:55] lot of that is happening today, and this is why technology can be [00:07:00] so dangerous for our children because it is, it's ready to sneak in. It's always [00:07:05] available. [00:07:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: It makes them feel safe because they're in a bubble, [00:07:08] Dr. Taz: right? [00:07:09] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: It makes them feel [00:07:10] secure. It makes them feel significant. Because it's always, you know, if you go to [00:07:15] chat GPT, it'll always tell you you're right. [00:07:17] Dr. Taz: I know, [00:07:17] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: right? So it's not real life. Real life is [00:07:20] messy. It's nuanced, it's emotional. It's, um, where you learn [00:07:25] how to be regulated within yourself. [00:07:28] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So a, a huge [00:07:30] dependence on technology is teaching our children to outsource their [00:07:35] regulation to these. We do it right every time. We are bored, every time we're waiting. Yeah, [00:07:40] we regulate ourselves through the phone. But when we were growing up, [00:07:45] we regulated ourselves through our internal regulation system. [00:07:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:07:50] So children are missing a lot of what they need today because [00:07:55] parents are distracted and parents are outsourcing their parenting, and [00:08:00] the algorithm is just too. Too amazing. It's too powerful. [00:08:05] It's too alluring. [00:08:06] Dr. Taz: You know, Australia just banned social media. [00:08:09] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yes. [00:08:09] Dr. Taz: For [00:08:10] children. How do you feel about that? [00:08:11] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I feel like it's too late. [00:08:13] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. It's, it's not that, you [00:08:15] know, not happy with anything. Of course. It's amazing. [00:08:18] Dr. Taz: It should have happened a long time. [00:08:19] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: It should have happened a long [00:08:20] time ago. We shouldn't even be at this place where I've had to write these books. [00:08:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:08:24] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You know, the only [00:08:25] reason I was even inspired to write these books is because I saw that [00:08:30] now we are. [00:08:31] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: In a new era of parenting, we are now [00:08:35] directly in competition with algorithms that are [00:08:40] crediting on our children's attention and attachment. And they are [00:08:45] going to rival you in every way because they are shinier [00:08:50] glossier. They are adapted to your child and [00:08:51] Dr. Taz: addictive. [00:08:52] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah, because they're adapted, [00:08:54] Dr. Taz: you know?[00:08:55] [00:08:56] Dr. Taz: I had the roughest time with my daughter [00:09:00] the day she got her phone. [00:09:01] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Mm-hmm. [00:09:02] Dr. Taz: And I had the roughest time with my daughter [00:09:05] prior to that because her friends in her elementary school got a phone [00:09:10] and I was the mother who would not allow that. And the battles in our home. And the [00:09:15] behaviors that ensued and the things that she was getting exposed to [00:09:20] created such a wide rift between the two of us. [00:09:22] Dr. Taz: I don't know that I was emotionally [00:09:25] regulated in dealing with some of those battles to be a hundred percent honest. But now as [00:09:30] she's, you know, 18 years old and you know, ready to start her next chapter, [00:09:35] she's grateful and kind of on her own [00:09:40] realizes the insidiousness of social media and. The phone and the [00:09:45] distractibility, but I'm thinking about, as I'm sure you are, all these parents that [00:09:50] are walking into this space completely unprepared and not realizing [00:09:55] that that phone and that technology is such a weapon against [00:10:00] them and that a community that kind of poo-poos it or like [00:10:05] enables it is another enemy against those of us that are trying to like.[00:10:10] [00:10:10] Dr. Taz: Let our children be children, you know, how, what would you say to [00:10:15] parents of younger children, parents of middle school age, children, teenagers, [00:10:20] you know, how, how do we handle those situations? I, I [00:10:25] didn't have an answer back then. It was a fight. It continued to be a fight until we finally [00:10:30] caved and she got a phone in like, I think it was seventh or eighth grade, but that was late. [00:10:34] Dr. Taz: In [00:10:35] comparison to her peers, you know? Mm. And we felt, and she felt like we were the weird ones, you [00:10:40] know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How do we help support parents in these decisions as they move [00:10:45] forward? What would you want not just parents to know, but communities of parents to know [00:10:50] as well? [00:10:50] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah, and, and that's exactly why I wrote these books is so that parents [00:10:55] have the language. [00:10:56] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: To understand what children [00:11:00] need and why technology is eroding that. [00:11:03] Dr. Taz: Yeah, [00:11:03] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: right. Research [00:11:05] shows that the minute you introduce digital learning, it actually [00:11:10] reduces the child's attention and their capacity to learn. Um. [00:11:15] And when parents are scaffolded with this knowledge, with this awareness, [00:11:20] then they can scaffold their children. [00:11:21] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:11:21] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right? But if the parent is unaware of what are the [00:11:25] risks and why, uh, what technology offers will actually [00:11:30] rival your own parenting. And actually put you in competition, like you said. [00:11:34] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:11:34] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:11:35] You and the phone were in a power struggle. [00:11:36] Dr. Taz: We were in a complete power struggle. [00:11:37] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. Yeah. And suddenly you're fighting this [00:11:40] unknown entity and it's now a third variable in your [00:11:45] life. [00:11:45] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You, your daughter, and the phone. [00:11:46] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:11:46] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And her relationship with the phone is taking center [00:11:50] stage. And I cannot tell you, countless families have come to me telling me [00:11:55] how. The phone or the screen or the video game has taken [00:12:00] center stage in the family, axis in the triangle, in the, you know. So what do [00:12:05] we do? [00:12:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Well, we need to understand that this is [00:12:10] dangerous for young minds, just like we protect them from crack cocaine and [00:12:15] alcohol and nicotine. This is another drug, in fact, even [00:12:20] more invidious, more, more dangerous, and we need to. [00:12:25] Not only create boundaries, we need to [00:12:30] really double down on our attention, on our presence, on our [00:12:35] connection. [00:12:35] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: There's a lot we can do. But we need to be aware of the dangers. And, [00:12:40] and that's why in this book I outlined scientifically why it's dangerous. But then I give [00:12:45] real tools. So for example, the other day I was with a family who was so [00:12:50] upset because their eighth grade boy was addicted to video games. Mm-hmm. [00:12:53] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Wouldn't leave his room, wasn't coming to [00:12:55] have a shower. [00:12:55] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:12:56] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: They were, they like the womb has eaten them up. The video [00:13:00] games have swallowed my son. Right. And they, they did not want to fight him [00:13:05] because every time they did, it was World War three. [00:13:07] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:13:08] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Been there. So, [00:13:09] Dr. Taz: yeah. [00:13:09] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:13:10] Right. So I've, I, what I have been training these parents to do, and it's all in the book, [00:13:15] is you don't take out the, the drug without creating a [00:13:20] replacement. [00:13:20] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Mm-hmm. So keep that, stop fighting about it. Because the [00:13:25] more you fight about it, the more the child is drawn to get his connection and [00:13:30] dopamine and security and safety from the screen. So don't do that. What you do [00:13:35] is you start on the side rebuilding your connection, rebuilding your [00:13:40] foundation. Mm-hmm. [00:13:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And for boys especially, you take them out. You, you meaning [00:13:45] on the court, on the field, right? [00:13:46] Dr. Taz: Anywhere. Yeah. [00:13:47] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Run outside because [00:13:50] boys regulate through their body. Girls can process, [00:13:55] girls can cry. And I, and I don't mean this, you know, I know these are stereotypes and I [00:14:00] culture very [00:14:01] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: bad, but they're very true. [00:14:02] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: They're [00:14:03] Dr. Taz: true, [00:14:03] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: but they're brain based. Yeah. You know, [00:14:05] there are physiological, biological differences [00:14:07] Dr. Taz: mm-hmm. [00:14:08] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Between how boys behave and [00:14:10] girls behave that are innate. And of course there's crossover and this intersection and culture plays a [00:14:15] big role of course. But boys reg, they're physical, they're kinetic. [00:14:19] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So [00:14:20] I was training these parents that. Every, every day [00:14:25] let him go on the screen. But just before he goes or just after, take him [00:14:30] outside and play with him and keep him active, and keep him regulated and keep him moving. [00:14:35] And the more you do this without touching this, like let him do his regular screen [00:14:40] time. [00:14:40] Dr. Taz: So it's not like, okay, your screen time is up or this [00:14:42] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: is the, no, you should have some boundaries around screen [00:14:45] time. Like, okay. Maximum two hours a day. Right. That's a lot, [00:14:48] Dr. Taz: right? That's tons. Yeah. [00:14:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. But what [00:14:50] I'm saying is don't take it out cold Turkey because you haven't replaced it with another [00:14:55] regulatory system. [00:14:56] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So first, create another regulatory system. Create the connection, create [00:15:00] the ritual, create the bonding, create the Let's move every day, and then [00:15:05] you. Create stricter boundaries around, around the, so [00:15:08] Dr. Taz: connection. First [00:15:09] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:15:10] connection has to be first you, you can't take it away. And then you not be home and you not be present [00:15:15] and you be distracted. [00:15:15] Dr. Taz: It's so hard. ' [00:15:16] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: cause they're looking for something. Right. The, the [00:15:20] algorithm creators learned our children's brains. Way [00:15:25] better than we parents know our children's brain. [00:15:26] Dr. Taz: This is so wrong in every way, but how, [00:15:30] what do we tell parents that are just busy? You know, we were in that boat, two working [00:15:35] parents, you know, gone a lot, you know, doing different things deep [00:15:40] in different issues outside of the home. [00:15:41] Dr. Taz: Right. Or sometimes even inside of the home. But I said, [00:15:44] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: listen, what would you [00:15:45] tell a parent who says, you know, there's crack and cocaine in the [00:15:50] neighbor's house and I'm too busy. Mm. It's, it's, it's that. Dire. [00:15:54] Dr. Taz: The [00:15:55] phone is equivalent to crack. [00:15:57] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: It can be because it can be so addictive [00:16:00] and it creates a lot of offshoot problems. [00:16:02] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Like, because the [00:16:05] algorithm is adaptive, right? [00:16:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:16:07] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: What your daughter is seeing, forget that it's all [00:16:10] fake and filtered and [00:16:11] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:16:11] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Bullshit. [00:16:12] Dr. Taz: Right, [00:16:12] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: right. Right. What she's seeing [00:16:15] is only what she's seeing. [00:16:16] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:16:17] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So I'm not even seeing what she's seeing. You are not even seeing what [00:16:20] she's seeing. So I call it in the book False Reality syndrome because [00:16:25] everyone has a false reality of reality. [00:16:26] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Like we don't know what reality is anymore. [00:16:29] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:16:29] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And when you [00:16:30] stop knowing what a shared reality is. You stop being human like [00:16:35] we are here because we have a shared story. [00:16:37] Dr. Taz: So are you worried with like AI [00:16:40] and relationships? I, and i's [00:16:41] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: it's, it's the end of [00:16:42] Dr. Taz: who they're gonna choose to partner with and how are they [00:16:45] gonna partner? [00:16:46] Dr. Taz: Right. Are you worried about these things? [00:16:47] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right? Partnering is such a, a lofty [00:16:50] dream. It's like we're not [00:16:51] Dr. Taz: even there yet [00:16:52] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: there. Let's talk about [00:16:55] how are they going to regulate? Yes. How are they going to partner? But [00:17:00] before even how they're gonna partner is how are they going to regulate? I see [00:17:05] myself, there's not a moment. [00:17:07] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Oh, my train is late. Okay. I'm on my phone. [00:17:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:17:10] Email. [00:17:11] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I mean, I, I drove into the city to see you today. [00:17:13] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:17:14] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I, I am [00:17:15] like embarrassed to say, I don't think I noticed. A single street. [00:17:20] A and before I used to notice every shop facade and the, the [00:17:25] new restaurants. And I used to pay attention to people huddled. [00:17:28] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Now it is winter, so you know, [00:17:30] not no one's, no one's looking all happy. But I miss the whole thing. [00:17:35] But, and I was working, but we've become so addicted to work. [00:17:39] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:17:39] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: We've [00:17:40] become so addicted to money. We, we are. Rapacious. And [00:17:45] hungry. And greedy now and, and not you. I'm just saying [00:17:47] Dr. Taz: in general, [00:17:48] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: all of us. [00:17:48] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:17:48] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And not even for [00:17:50] money, but for status. For being busy. Well, when you have children, [00:17:55] at least for the first 10, 12 years, you have to be present. [00:18:00] I mean, if you're lucky and you have a slew of amazing nannies who have PhDs in [00:18:05] child psychology, great. This is the trade off of having children, but even the [00:18:09] Dr. Taz: nannies [00:18:10] and child psych, [00:18:10] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: they're on the phone. [00:18:11] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. [00:18:12] Dr. Taz: Like are they really gonna connect with our children? [00:18:14] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:18:15] Right. [00:18:15] Dr. Taz: You know? [00:18:15] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. And children need reliability. My daughter's 23, just the other day, [00:18:20] she said, all I like is your presence. [00:18:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:18:22] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You know, I like your presence around me [00:18:25] and. It was so apropos because that's all they need, but they need presence. [00:18:28] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Presence is [00:18:30] not just being present. It's, it's being attuned, available, [00:18:35] focused, um, resourced, you know, ready to [00:18:40] be attuned. Go. Yeah. Like in, in synchrony with your children. Not a [00:18:45] checked out, just the body there person, you know. [00:18:48] Dr. Taz: So this is. You know, I'm [00:18:50] embarrassed to say that I've been incredibly busy for most of my child [00:18:55] rearing years, and it's something I think about a lot when I'm advising younger [00:19:00] women as they enter. [00:19:01] Dr. Taz: You know, like I'm always like, I don't advise doing what I [00:19:05] did. Mm-hmm. We did it unaware. We did it kind of blind. We walked into it. [00:19:10] I think there has to be some training of young women and young [00:19:15] girls and young men as they enter into a family dynamic [00:19:20] of what the stress threshold is with the hum of cortisol is [00:19:25] within that family so that somebody has the ability. [00:19:29] Dr. Taz: To [00:19:30] regulate not only themselves, but whatever's happening with the children. But I think what [00:19:35] I see on my end frequently with my patients and with friends and everybody else, [00:19:40] is that it's two very stressed out people. Maybe two very high powered people. [00:19:45] Or two people having to work very hard, you know, just due to the standard of living demands [00:19:50] nowadays, who themselves are very stressed and not self-regulated. [00:19:54] Dr. Taz: [00:19:55] Coming into a home and not being just physically or emotionally. [00:20:00] Able to be present for these children that are so right [00:20:05] desperately needing us right now. And I think, you know, is there a way for parents to [00:20:10] check themselves? Is there education we can start giving young families or [00:20:15] even midpoint families or, and I'm sure with the 23-year-old, you're gonna tell me, parenting never [00:20:20] ends. [00:20:20] Dr. Taz: So even like later in life, you know, how can we check ourselves a little bit? [00:20:24] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Well, [00:20:25] we are. Blessed and privileged to be living in a, in a time where [00:20:30] we've kind of deconstructed those institutions that were so rigid that you [00:20:35] had to get married. You had to have children. Right? So now we have more opportunity, we have more options, we have more [00:20:40] choices, and I seriously, you know, advocate for women. [00:20:44] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:20:45] Really thinking hard if they have that maternity, that maternal energy [00:20:50] and for fathers mm-hmm. If they're willing to do this. [00:20:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:20:54] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Because don't do this [00:20:54] Dr. Taz: [00:20:55] if you can't, [00:20:55] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: if you can't, don't do it just to check a box anymore because [00:21:00] children are a full-time job. Mm. And, and, uh, the most important job you can [00:21:05] do, I think. [00:21:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Mm-hmm. Um, and some of it is, you know, annoying and frustrating [00:21:10] and, you know, brain chewing, numbing, but, uh. This is what it [00:21:15] is. Yeah. You know, they're little, they wanna play. They, they're messy, they're chaotic. They don't, they're not [00:21:20] predictable. They're not a shiny trophy. They're just, you know, day to day moment by moment.[00:21:25] [00:21:25] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So do it with this awareness that you're gonna have to really be [00:21:30] resourced to provide that level of wisdom and [00:21:35] compassion and understanding and patience. [00:21:37] Dr. Taz: Where does community and extended family fit [00:21:40] into this equation? [00:21:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: If you, if you're lucky. You have amazing community. You've [00:21:45] won the lotto. Mm-hmm. [00:21:45] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Because the very fact that we are raising children in this [00:21:50] nuclear isolated, two person, stressed out. If two person, most, many [00:21:55] think, right. Sometimes it's not even two. [00:21:55] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:21:57] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Is untenable. It's just not [00:22:00] possible. And then that poor single mother who's trying to do everything, she's go trying to go to work, she's trying to raise her [00:22:05] children. [00:22:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And she's burning out. It is impossible. Even with a male partner or a female [00:22:10] partner, it is impossible. So we do need to call in kinder community [00:22:15] and or built community. Right. The other day I was talking to a single mother and I said, you have to take your [00:22:20] son to, uh, big Brothers Big Sisters and get him a [00:22:25] mentor. [00:22:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:22:25] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Because you cannot do it. [00:22:26] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:22:27] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. Especially boys need [00:22:30] male mentors. You know, because they, they have a different, [00:22:35] uh, connection than say a male and a female. Because older boys know [00:22:40] what, what it's about, you know? Yeah. And they can, they can guide them through these rights [00:22:45] of initiation into manhood. [00:22:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:22:47] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And our boys are missing that. [00:22:48] Dr. Taz: They are missing that. You [00:22:50] know, I was raised in a very dysfunctional way. I'm just gonna be a hundred percent honest. I don't need to go into all the details and stuff [00:22:55] like that. And one of the things I promised myself when I got married is that [00:23:00] we would create community for. [00:23:02] Dr. Taz: Our children, right. Regardless of [00:23:05] differences or misunderstandings or things like that. And so one of the things [00:23:10] that my two children have had that I personally did not have is aunts [00:23:15] and uncles and [00:23:16] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: amazing [00:23:16] Dr. Taz: grandmothers. And you know, we were very [00:23:20] isolated. My parents were immigrants, we were very isolated. [00:23:22] Dr. Taz: We had nobody. And so I, [00:23:25] I would also. A, want your opinion, and B, advocate for the fact that like [00:23:30] I, I know a lot of people will put their boxing gloves up and not want [00:23:35] community, or not want somebody from the family to help out. But [00:23:40] if, if we can make peace with those people, they're kind of our advocates too. [00:23:44] Dr. Taz: [00:23:45] Usually. As long as they're healthy, they're, they can be advocates as well for this fatigue and exhaustion [00:23:50] that absolutely. Families are going through today. I mean, my mother has had to intervene. Mm-hmm. [00:23:55] Between my daughter and I. Yeah. She's been a game changer. Yes. You know, because she is today a different person than Absolutely the [00:24:00] woman who raised me. [00:24:00] Dr. Taz: Right. And it's been just a voice of reason. My two sisters have stepped in [00:24:05] so many times, you know, over and over again. These are people, you know, my [00:24:10] sister-in-law, like all of them have come together at different moments. Yeah. To be like, yeah. [00:24:15] We're a sounding board for, for people in this, in this structure. [00:24:18] Dr. Taz: You know, I know a [00:24:20] lot of people don't have that, but I know also a lot of people push that away. [00:24:23] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Mm-hmm. [00:24:24] Dr. Taz: What, [00:24:25] what's your take on family structure and family systems? [00:24:28] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I think it's vital, [00:24:30] pivotal game changing. If you have healthy people around you, [00:24:33] Dr. Taz: they have to be healthy. [00:24:34] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. Yeah. To [00:24:35] call them in and rely on them. [00:24:37] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You know, this very western, you know, [00:24:40] individualistic. I got this, I got this. Yeah. I'm so reliant. You know, you and I are from, from a [00:24:45] different background. Right [00:24:45] Dr. Taz: time, right [00:24:46] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: background where we, where we have everyone helping us. [00:24:50] Right? Right. So I love that, that that's important because the mother cannot burn out. [00:24:54] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:24:55] If the mother burns out, we have nothing left to give. Right. Because she's the [00:25:00] emotional nurturing. Uh, pivotal Center. You know, she's the [00:25:05] fountain of that emotional sustenance. And fathers have a different, you know, of course they can be the [00:25:10] fountain too, but typically it's the female. [00:25:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:25:12] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Who has that. So if she's burning out, she's doing no one [00:25:15] any good. [00:25:15] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So she needs help. So her being a superwoman and trying to do it all is [00:25:20] actually her ego and it's to her detriment. Mm. So, um, yeah, [00:25:25] I think. Community. I mean, in this book I talk about calling in the brotherhood, calling in the [00:25:30] sisterhood. We have to have community. [00:25:32] Dr. Taz: We have to do, alright, so you've got these two books. [00:25:34] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:25:35] Raising Conscious Sons. Raising Conscious Daughters. I know you're really upset about [00:25:40] technology. [00:25:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. [00:25:40] Dr. Taz: What, tell us about these two books. What, what can we find in these books? What [00:25:45] can we learn in these books as we move forward? [00:25:47] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Wow. So it's been such a [00:25:50] journey. I interviewed a hundred children to write these books. [00:25:52] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I did a lot of [00:25:55] research and understood not just the science, but what solutions could work. [00:26:00] And I have a practice in In on Zoom. [00:26:02] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:26:03] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And I work with [00:26:05] parents in a very practical way. So this book is going to lay out the [00:26:10] key symptoms we are seeing in this era. What are they [00:26:15] eating disorders? [00:26:17] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Comparisonitis, uh, perfectionism. [00:26:20] Uh, boys are lost. They don't understand what, what is masculinity anymore? How [00:26:25] to be male? They don't know. They're totally confused. Mm. Um, they're intimidated. They're [00:26:30] committing suicide at rates that are astronomical. It it alarming. Like [00:26:35] we should be ringing the bell every day. [00:26:37] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Boys are committing suicide. Boys are committing suicide. We [00:26:40] should not be resting. We should not fall asleep. [00:26:41] Dr. Taz: Yeah. We're not talking about that. Are we? [00:26:43] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Girls are anxious, [00:26:45] more depressed than ever. Uh, they are, you know, isolating. They are [00:26:50] feeling this pressure to be every kind of woman. Now. She has to be the career woman. [00:26:54] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: She [00:26:55] has to hustle. She has to go to the gym. She has to eat healthy, she has to eat organic. She has to be vegan, she has to have children. She has to [00:27:00] not have children. She has to have a lover and have many lovers have, have a hus, I mean, [00:27:05] not have a husband. [00:27:05] Dr. Taz: Exhausting. Hmm. [00:27:06] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: She, yes. She has to figure out who she is, is she, you know, [00:27:10] what pronoun what? [00:27:11] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: It's too much. So this book outlines all the [00:27:15] problems in very clear, easy to understand ways, but then in each [00:27:20] chapter I give solutions. And you know, as I was writing the [00:27:25] solutions, I was like, oh, every parent can do this. It's so easy. But [00:27:30] we don't realize the power of our. Right? Mm-hmm. We don't realize [00:27:35] how much power we have and if, and I train parents, you, if you [00:27:40] make these tweaks 20 minutes a day, your relationship with your children will [00:27:45] profoundly change. [00:27:46] Dr. Taz: Wow. If you're listening to this and thinking, I [00:27:50] know something is often my body, but I don't know where to start. This is for [00:27:55] you. That's why I created the circle. The circle is my private community [00:28:00] where I and my team focus on understanding your body from hormones and stress to [00:28:05] metabolic health and longevity with real life guidance that you can actually [00:28:10] use. [00:28:10] Dr. Taz: This is about clarity and consistency and support beyond the exam [00:28:15] room and maybe outside of all the different appointments and experts that you've been running [00:28:20] around to. You can try the circle with a one month trial using the promo code [00:28:25] podcast@wholeplus.co back slash circle. Again, that's whole [00:28:30] plus HOL ps.co/circle. [00:28:34] Dr. Taz: All right, [00:28:35] let's jump back into the episode. [00:28:36] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. You don't need more than. 20 minutes of [00:28:40] conscious parenting. Yes. [00:28:40] Dr. Taz: Give us three of the tweaks. What are some just, oh my god, a sneak, a sneak tweak peek. [00:28:44] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:28:45] Yes. Give us [00:28:45] Dr. Taz: that [00:28:45] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: so much. So, for example, you know, with, with our [00:28:50] sons, the most important thing you need to do is stop asking him to use [00:28:55] his words. [00:28:55] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:28:56] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Like, stop asking your son questions about how he feels. [00:29:00] He's showing you through his body. So begin observing his [00:29:05] body. Number two, I'll tell you, I was [00:29:07] Dr. Taz: about to be like, what is this body saying? [00:29:09] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You For the [00:29:10] boys. You for the girls. [00:29:10] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:29:11] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So boys kind of, they withdraw and they shut down. Yes. And you think [00:29:15] they're okay because they're like, I'm okay. [00:29:16] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I'm okay. [00:29:17] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:29:17] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And they're, they kind of give off this air [00:29:20] of indifference and apathy, you know? But that that is there [00:29:25] with Royal is saying something. It's saying, I'm checking out. Don't let me check out. I don't [00:29:30] wanna be checked out. Come get me. And the way to connect to a boy is [00:29:35] only through movement, physical activities, side by side, not face [00:29:40] to face. [00:29:41] Dr. Taz: Not face-to-face. [00:29:42] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. Because you, you know how men are. Yeah. You know, [00:29:45] and, and again, these are stereotypes. Right, right, right. But they kind of work. No [00:29:48] Dr. Taz: one get mad at us. Yeah. [00:29:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Don't get mad at us. [00:29:50] Don't come yelling at me. [00:29:50] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:29:51] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Um, you know, I see it with all my brother, my cousins, my, you [00:29:55] know. Yeah. Um, but when you're side by side and playing a game and, and you both are. [00:29:59] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:30:00] Out there at war or, you know, shooting hoops. He, he will open up. Yeah. But he will [00:30:05] open up not in the way girls open up. [00:30:07] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:30:08] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. But you will see his [00:30:10] relaxation. And, and the last thing I'll say about boys is they need their fathers, they need male [00:30:15] mentors, they need guides, they need safety. You think boys are not emotion. [00:30:19] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:30:20] They have feelings. [00:30:20] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:30:21] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: All children have feelings. The reason why a boy is not accessing them [00:30:25] is because he's getting two very contrasting messages. On one hand, he's told by [00:30:30] all the left, you know, left wing politicians and woke people, and [00:30:35] Right. Us women. [00:30:35] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:30:36] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Use your words and use your, you know, right. [00:30:37] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Tell us about your feelings. Right. So he thinks, okay, I [00:30:40] can do that. But then when he does that, then he's got the alt right. And, you know, the macho [00:30:45] mm-hmm. Machismo of the world, telling him he's a wimp. Yeah. And he's like too much like a girl. [00:30:49] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:30:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:30:50] And that's not being a boy, that's not being male. So he's kind of like really juxtaposed, like, [00:30:54] Dr. Taz: which way am I supposed to [00:30:55] go? [00:30:55] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And too much pressure on the boy. And, and one more thing about the boys. They have this kind of [00:31:00] almost existential. Existential nihilism because they're [00:31:05] being told college is not important anymore. But, uh, their parents are still pushing them. They're being told [00:31:10] that AI is gonna take all their jobs. So they're like, okay, then what's the point? [00:31:13] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And they see everything just falling [00:31:15] apart and they are being outsourced. Right? So boys like to contribute. They [00:31:20] like to feel useful, you know, they want to solve problems, right? Most. Of us in [00:31:25] straight adult relationships. We, women always complain like, can you not fix my problem? Right. Just let me [00:31:30] complain, let me [00:31:30] Dr. Taz: just whine, [00:31:30] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: ine and, and men just don't get that. [00:31:33] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. I do couples counseling all [00:31:35] the time. I go, it's so easy. Just shut up and listen. And they go, but then we feel responsible. [00:31:39] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:31:40] [00:31:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Boys feel like that too. But everything is taken care of. Uber Eats [00:31:45] comes through the door, Uber comes through your doorstep. It's all handled. [00:31:48] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:31:48] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So the boy is finding [00:31:50] very little to be useful for and, and if he's not useful, he [00:31:55] doesn't see purpose. [00:31:55] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: If he doesn't see purpose, he doesn't see himself. [00:31:59] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:31:59] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So that's on [00:32:00] the boy side. [00:32:00] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:32:01] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Some of the things for the girls, oh my goodness. [00:32:05] Girls. Oh, we both have daughters, so we have [00:32:09] Dr. Taz: [00:32:10] girls. [00:32:10] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah, it's. They're so amazing. Mm-hmm. Right. They are [00:32:15] so attuned and in touch. And the other day my daughter told me, these are the [00:32:20] four things you need to do before you apologize to me. [00:32:23] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Gosh. I was like, my gosh, [00:32:24] Dr. Taz: [00:32:25] okay. [00:32:25] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You need to acknowledge that you don't know anything. You don't know my reality. You need to [00:32:30] be. Accountable. You need to be something else. I'm it tuned around. I was like, oh my God, this, I'm too [00:32:35] old for this. Okay. Yeah. Like, I'll tell you what you need to do, woman. Mm-hmm. So, um, they're [00:32:40] so amazing girls, you know, they, they articulate, they're bright, they have their words, [00:32:44] Dr. Taz: they're [00:32:45] sassy. [00:32:45] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: They're so sa because, you know, they're. The left and right hemisphere is [00:32:50] connected. You know, boys are compartmentalized, girls are fully on, and if they are, you know, [00:32:55] raised with, uh, a certain amount of love and respect and [00:33:00] honor, they're gonna be sassy as hell, you know? And I love that. Wouldn't [00:33:04] Dr. Taz: know what you're talking [00:33:05] about. [00:33:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. I love that. But, but that means they're empowered, [00:33:08] Dr. Taz: right? [00:33:08] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Girls today know how to use their [00:33:10] voice, most of them, and they can use it. They have the language, they, they're just so [00:33:15] articulate. Mm-hmm. However, because girls are relational, right? [00:33:20] Because their juice comes from relationships. Like women like us, you know, [00:33:25] they need to be in relationship. [00:33:27] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: They need to be seen [00:33:30] so. For example, one thing that girls need is repair. [00:33:34] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:33:34] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:33:35] So don't let your girl go to sleep where you're mad with her and you're not talking to her. [00:33:40] You may think I need space, she will die inside. [00:33:45] She needs like the circle to be complete and she needs the whole thing to be wrapped [00:33:50] up. [00:33:50] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Much like us adult women. [00:33:52] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:33:52] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But girls more so because they [00:33:55] are inherently relational. Their prefrontal cortex is not yet developed and [00:34:00] they develop their sense of identity through that mirroring. You know, they have a [00:34:05] very high, you know, instinct to, to be in relationship, to be [00:34:10] in connection. You know, their brain lights up with that. [00:34:13] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So. [00:34:15] Given that for them to be on social media is [00:34:20] hell [00:34:20] Dr. Taz: yeah, [00:34:21] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: because they're trying to find themselves [00:34:25] through these curated feeds that are irrational. [00:34:30] Unreliable, unrealistic. And [00:34:35] the bar is so high. [00:34:36] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:34:36] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right? Look at these women on social media. You never see them out on the [00:34:40] street. Right. But, and everything, every post curated, filtered, [00:34:45] doctored, edited. [00:34:47] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: It really puts pressure on the girl [00:34:50] to want to be like that because she's mirroring, she's finding herself through that, [00:34:55] and she's finding that she can't be that. Who looks like that? Nobody. Yeah. Right. [00:35:00] So she wonders who she is. Because she's not getting real feedback [00:35:05] about who she really is in real time. [00:35:07] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:35:07] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So it's really giving her a distorted [00:35:10] perception of who she is and she can't belong. She's not finding where she belongs. Yeah. [00:35:15] And she takes comparison. She takes criticism. [00:35:20] To heart because what people say about her is her identity, especially at that [00:35:25] age. [00:35:25] Dr. Taz: Yeah, [00:35:25] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: pre puberty. Puberty. Um, boys are different. [00:35:29] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You know, [00:35:30] boys get their identity through their achievement, through their autonomy, through their agency. Girls get it in [00:35:35] through their relationships, so that's why you'll find boys on video games. [00:35:40] Playing to like kill and murder and hunt and find the kidnapper. [00:35:44] Dr. Taz: Right? Right, right. [00:35:44] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: They're [00:35:45] on a mission, right? [00:35:46] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: All of them on their headphones are on a mission, but girls are just scrolling, [00:35:50] finding, [00:35:51] Dr. Taz: trying to [00:35:51] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: find something, looking for themselves. [00:35:53] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:35:53] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And [00:35:55] becoming more perfectionistic because the internet is perfect, right? Everyone's social [00:36:00] media feed is perfect, and they are falling into [00:36:05] deep. Anxiety and depression and that suicidality may not [00:36:10] be complete suicide, but a lot of suicidal thoughts. [00:36:13] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Lot of self-harm. [00:36:14] Dr. Taz: [00:36:15] Yeah. [00:36:15] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You know, [00:36:16] Dr. Taz: I see that. [00:36:17] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So this is, uh, really, [00:36:20] really tragic. And [00:36:22] Dr. Taz: how do we help our girls then? I [00:36:25] mean, even as they, when does this end for them? I mean, as they hit. [00:36:30] 16, [00:36:30] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: 17, you're seeing how us women, right. You know, you [00:36:35] know, forties, fifties, sixties, [00:36:36] Dr. Taz: right? [00:36:37] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: We are insecure, right? We [00:36:40] are getting plastic surgery up the wazoo. [00:36:43] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: We are, so why [00:36:45] shouldn't they be, right? Mm-hmm. All I'm saying is like it, does it ever end? [00:36:48] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. So [00:36:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: yes, [00:36:50] patriarchy has done a number on us. Yes, patriarchy has objectified us, but at some point [00:36:55] we women have to take charge of our own insecurities. [00:36:58] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:36:59] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And. [00:37:00] Say enough. You know, I'm not going to slaughter myself for [00:37:05] an image. [00:37:06] Dr. Taz: Right? [00:37:06] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And we have to teach our daughters. So how we are in the [00:37:10] mirror, how we are at home, right? How obsessed we are [00:37:15] with our, you know, our appearance. The more your daughter sees you [00:37:20] as a mother, unconditionally accepting of yourself. [00:37:25] She will indoctrinate that, right? [00:37:27] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:37:27] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Now, of course she's gonna go to college and there's gonna [00:37:30] be other influences. [00:37:31] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right? [00:37:31] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:37:31] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But in the early years, and that's why I wrote these books and [00:37:35] I devoted one to each sex. Yeah. 'cause there's so much to write. [00:37:38] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:37:38] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Um. In [00:37:40] the early years, we need to really give our daughters a voice and hear them and [00:37:45] see them for who they are, not for how they look. And be [00:37:50] very careful about the messages that culture gives them, about their worth and their [00:37:55] identity, and um, and start teaching them early. [00:37:59] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: That culture will [00:38:00] objectify you and this is how you combat it and it's not easy. [00:38:03] Dr. Taz: Yeah. What are [00:38:05] traps that parents fall into very easily that they may be unaware of? Things that we may say, [00:38:10] or things we may do and, and we don't even realize, you know, that well, this [00:38:15] is set up, you know? Yeah. [00:38:16] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I think. Partly due to my work as [00:38:20] well, we may have swung and overcompensated the other way. [00:38:24] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So [00:38:25] we were raised with the traditional parenting where it was the child is seen, not [00:38:30] heard, the child does what the parent says, and you are my, my mini me. And you will just [00:38:35] follow the tradition. [00:38:36] Dr. Taz: Yes. Yeah. [00:38:36] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And then when I came on the scene and I taught conscious parenting, [00:38:40] uh, I taught that we need to be. [00:38:43] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Accountable. We need to own our [00:38:45] unhealed baggage. Right. We need to look at ourselves. [00:38:47] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:38:48] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But I think people [00:38:50] have taken that and the whole new age movement too far. Gentle [00:38:54] Dr. Taz: [00:38:55] parenting too. [00:38:55] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. And to the point where we are now so careful of our children's [00:39:00] feelings that we are creating. Fragility. [00:39:03] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:39:04] Dr. Taz: I would [00:39:05] agree with that a hundred [00:39:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: percent. Yeah. So. There's a, there's a fine line, right? And conscious [00:39:10] parenting is not permissive parenting. It's very boundaried, it's very based in [00:39:15] reality. Right. So the other day, a couple came to me with, uh, [00:39:20] an overweight daughter [00:39:21] Dr. Taz: mm-hmm. [00:39:22] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Who was medically obese. Okay. [00:39:25] And they were like, well, you know, we don't wanna hurt her feelings and we don't know what to say. [00:39:28] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And [00:39:28] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:39:29] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You know. [00:39:30] I said the same thing as I tell other people. I said, if your daughter had poor [00:39:35] eyesight, wouldn't you take them? Wouldn't you take her to get glasses? Or would that hurt her feelings? [00:39:39] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:39:40] [00:39:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right Now your daughter doesn't have to like what you say because [00:39:45] children don't like what we do. [00:39:46] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:39:46] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But if you do it with compassion, if [00:39:50] you do it with connection. If you tell your child, it's just like [00:39:55] your eyes need help, your body, your metabolism needs [00:40:00] help, let me help you. You don't do it through shaming, you don't do it through [00:40:05] blaming, right? I'll tell you another example. A single mother came to me, her daughter's [00:40:10] 22, and she has not been to college and does not leave the house and [00:40:15] goes for a few hours of, you know, a, a little job. [00:40:19] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But [00:40:20] barely earning anything. And the mother is like, what do I do if I tell her, you know, you need to [00:40:25] get a job. She's going to abandon me. She's gonna go to the father. She's going, but she was [00:40:30] so afraid. That we are being negligent. Right? So I had to teach this mother, no, you will [00:40:35] be a negligent mother if you allow her to do nothing all day as an adult and [00:40:40] eat your food in the fridge, live in your apartment, use your electricity and water and [00:40:45] contribute nothing. [00:40:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:40:46] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: That is not developmentally appropriate. [00:40:48] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:40:48] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So, [00:40:50] um, I said the conscious thing to do is to be in reality. [00:40:55] Reality goes by the developmental level of your child, not the age, not the chronological age. [00:41:00] What is the child capable of? If your child is developmentally appropriate to do [00:41:05] something by themselves, sure you can indulge them in, but they should be able to do [00:41:10] it because if not, you may be enmeshed with them. [00:41:13] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right? [00:41:15] Again, the fundamental principle of conscious parenting is everything is done [00:41:20] through the parent looking at their own issues, so they're not dumping their own garbage. Right, [00:41:25] and with a deep compassion. [00:41:28] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:41:29] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: For our children, [00:41:30] everything comes from connection. Once you are good in the connection [00:41:35] and your child needs to understand, you're not judging them, you're not shaming them, you're on their team.[00:41:40] [00:41:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You will never abandon them. You will never, ever, ever. [00:41:45] Not be there for them, but you need to get a job [00:41:49] Dr. Taz: right? [00:41:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:41:50] But your numbers of your body fat or whatever your di, your [00:41:55] insulin, [00:41:55] Dr. Taz: right. [00:41:56] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Fasting. We can't [00:41:57] Dr. Taz: change those. That's the reality. [00:41:58] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: That's our reality. [00:41:59] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:41:59] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:42:00] So conscious parenting is so powerful, and that's what I teach in these books [00:42:05] because it gives you solutions in such an aligned way [00:42:10] that it teaches you to be attuned to what your child is going through, not what you think they [00:42:15] should go through. [00:42:16] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Who is the child? I have not the child I wish I had [00:42:20] or I should have had because I'm an amazing parent. [00:42:22] Dr. Taz: It was so hard for me because my child [00:42:25] and my daughter is, uh, very different from me in some ways. Very similar in other ways, [00:42:30] but different in the sense of her. Creativity, her goals, just, [00:42:35] there were some differences, right? [00:42:36] Dr. Taz: And I had to learn, I had to [00:42:40] literally spiritually grow to be able to parent her and understand that she wasn't [00:42:45] wired. Or maybe it's not even wiring, maybe she wasn't raised in the same [00:42:50] circumstances. Right. That I was [00:42:50] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: raised in no wired, no raised. [00:42:52] Dr. Taz: You know, so she's not gonna think in this way. She's gonna [00:42:55] think in a very different way. [00:42:56] Dr. Taz: It was, it was a season of growth to get there. But [00:42:58] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: she was your first born, [00:43:00] right? You were raised in a, in a kind of, I can imagine, right? [00:43:04] Dr. Taz: Yes. You already know. [00:43:05] You already know [00:43:06] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: a cookie cutter traditional. [00:43:07] Dr. Taz: You'll be this, you'll be that, [00:43:10] don't you? You be disowned. I was disowned about seven times, you know, from [00:43:15] 17. [00:43:16] Dr. Taz: 16, 17 through about 25, 26. 'cause you [00:43:19] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: weren't falling in [00:43:20] line, [00:43:20] Dr. Taz: correct? 'cause I was. You [00:43:20] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: weren't bringing home the gold medals. Correct. You weren't making and proud. [00:43:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:43:24] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So it was very [00:43:25] conditional. Very transactional. Very [00:43:26] Dr. Taz: conditional. Correct. [00:43:27] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And you hadn't yet grown up in terms of [00:43:30] your own evolution. [00:43:31] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:43:31] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But now you are, and your daughter is part of that awakening. [00:43:35] But so when we grow up from that traditional cookie cutter mentality, which is really most [00:43:40] parents [00:43:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:43:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: We immediately project onto our daughter kind of the same thing. Right. That [00:43:45] ownership you were owned. Right. You're thinking I was owned facts. [00:43:48] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I, I was cattle in my [00:43:49] Dr. Taz: right, [00:43:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:43:50] in my parents' farm. [00:43:51] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:43:51] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: She'll be a little bit of a cattle, you know? Right. Not so much. The farm will be [00:43:55] bigger. [00:43:55] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:43:55] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And it'll be in America a little [00:43:57] Dr. Taz: bit nicer. [00:43:57] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Nicer. I'll ask her whether she [00:44:00] wants cheese or, you know, or, or, or, uh, salami or whatever. I'll give her [00:44:05] options, but it'll be my farm. [00:44:06] Dr. Taz: Yeah. And. [00:44:08] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Hell no. Your daughter's raised in a [00:44:10] different time and she's wired differently. And the same thing happened to me. That's why very quickly I learned [00:44:15] how to do conscious parenting because I too did not recognize my daughter in me. [00:44:19] Dr. Taz: Yeah, [00:44:19] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:44:20] it's not because it's because she was being herself, but I projected my own [00:44:25] image. [00:44:25] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I wanted her to be like me. [00:44:27] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:44:27] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And how narcissistic is that? [00:44:29] Dr. Taz: I know. [00:44:29] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So [00:44:30] once I figured it out, and thank goodness I figured it out a little earlier, but I still had issues because the [00:44:35] ego is strong. I was able to release that and now help other parents do the same. [00:44:39] Dr. Taz: It's [00:44:40] so important. I, you know, I always say to younger people, like being a parent is a [00:44:45] spiritual journey. [00:44:45] Dr. Taz: You are responsible for your own emotional triggers and your own [00:44:50] emotional regulation. To be able to handle conflict. And I mean, I would add [00:44:55] now like you are also responsible for your cortisol and your stress levels. Yeah. Which is part of [00:45:00] why I wanted you on this show because again, if that ecosystem within the home [00:45:05] doesn't create a soothing environment or one where children can [00:45:10] speak or feel seen or heard or connect, [00:45:13] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: yeah. [00:45:14] Dr. Taz: They have [00:45:15] somebody else waiting for them, and it's not another person. No. They've got a whole world of gadgetry [00:45:20] waiting for them. You know, [00:45:21] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I'll give you another technique that's really good for emotional regulation, [00:45:25] especially when they're driving you banana, [00:45:27] Dr. Taz: right? [00:45:27] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And they're triggering the hell out of you.[00:45:30] [00:45:30] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I, I do this and my daughter sometimes gets annoyed with me, but it works amazingly. [00:45:35] So I, I'll say things like, I can see that your trigger. [00:45:40] I choose not to be triggered. [00:45:41] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:45:42] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So, and I'll talk through my process. So [00:45:45] I'm just going to breathe right now. So I'm just gonna breathe one time, then I'm gonna breathe. [00:45:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:45:50] So I just, I'll just narrate the whole thing. 'cause I'm trying to freaking not freak out. Right. [00:45:55] So I'm like, what do you want? You want me to freak out right now because I'll freak out because you are freaking out, but I'm [00:46:00] not gonna freak out. [00:46:00] Dr. Taz: Right? [00:46:01] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And she, you know. But what it does it, it interrupts [00:46:05] her the freak out. [00:46:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Mm. But it also teaches the skills and it actually does calm you [00:46:10] down. But you have to remember to do that, you have to do that. You to say that. Right? So what I teach in [00:46:15] all my books is that the parent has to activate their own self-talk. [00:46:20] They have to learn to talk to themselves and say things like, calm the F down. [00:46:24] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Like relax. [00:46:25] She's just seven years old. Don't smash her head into, right, like you have to talk to yourself. [00:46:29] Dr. Taz: [00:46:30] Yeah. [00:46:30] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You have to become your parent that you never had growing up and [00:46:35] you never learned these skills. You never learned this third voice. Right to keep you in check. [00:46:39] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:46:40] [00:46:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right between you, the, the trigger. [00:46:42] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And so you need to create the third voice, right? [00:46:45] That's the adult self that is training you in the moment. Calm down, take it easy. [00:46:50] Take it easy, right? You, we didn't have a coach with [00:46:51] Dr. Taz: someone sitting [00:46:52] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: on your shoulder. A coach. You need to activate your own coach. [00:46:55] [00:46:55] Dr. Taz: Ah, [00:46:55] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: and, and do it in real time. And it's, for me, it works in [00:47:00] two seconds, like. [00:47:01] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Because the minute I remember to use it, see, once you remember to use it, [00:47:05] then you're going to use it. And then you realize, I, I have to stay regulated here [00:47:10] so that they can borrow my nervous system because they have lost theirs. Hmm. It [00:47:15] never found them. Right. They never had, [00:47:17] Dr. Taz: yeah. [00:47:17] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So they. The best I can do in this [00:47:20] moment is let them borrow mine. [00:47:22] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But how will they borrow it? They can observe [00:47:25] it. That's one way. But it's even better if I tell her what the hell I'm doing. [00:47:28] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:47:29] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Right. [00:47:30] And now when her dog is acting crazy, she'll go and calm the dog down. Calm down. Take a [00:47:35] deep breath. [00:47:35] Dr. Taz: There we go. [00:47:36] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: You go. [00:47:37] Dr. Taz: This is so fascinating. You know, I only recently learned [00:47:40] about mirror neurons and this idea of co-regulation. [00:47:44] Dr. Taz: Yes. And coem [00:47:45] emotional. Yeah. You know, control within mm-hmm. A system or a family unit. I'm, I'm sure it [00:47:50] applies to work units as well, but you know, it, it's still a message of hope. As [00:47:55] frustrating as it is, because if we can do this within our homes, maybe we [00:48:00] can win Yeah. Against ai. Mm-hmm. And technology and all the other [00:48:04] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: forces way we can win.[00:48:05] [00:48:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: We can win if we take the power back, if we reclaim our parenting and [00:48:10] we, we decide that w. First, we have to enter our own worth, [00:48:14] Dr. Taz: right? [00:48:14] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:48:15] We have to believe that our children wanna be with us. We have to believe that they [00:48:20] want us more than anything else in the world. We have to believe that like we are, we [00:48:25] are powerful, we are important, we are, we are life-giving. [00:48:28] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: And then we have to [00:48:30] access that life-giving energy and show up, life-giving. [00:48:33] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:48:33] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: So if you show up [00:48:35] shaming, critical, demeaning, derogatory, your child is not gonna come to you. [00:48:39] Dr. Taz: [00:48:40] Mm. [00:48:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But if you show up like a light and you see the light in them, they will choose [00:48:45] you. They may not immediately choose you, but they will be willing, but they'll willing to choose you. [00:48:49] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:48:49] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But you have [00:48:50] to be the light that sees their light. But if you are a grunt, you know, [00:48:55] grouchy, distracted, anxious, stressed, out, human being who's always telling them, pick up your [00:49:00] shoes, you know, eat properly. Go eat your beans, and you are that vibration, [00:49:05] why would they come to you? Right? They would rather escape into their dopamine cycle.[00:49:10] [00:49:10] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Of, of just easy, you know? [00:49:12] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:49:13] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Easy, adrenaline, easy, [00:49:15] uh, feel good emotions. [00:49:17] Dr. Taz: Oh my gosh. We need these books. We need these [00:49:20] tools. [00:49:20] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. So important. It's important. These books are a wake up call. [00:49:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah, [00:49:23] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: they're wake up call. I, ideally [00:49:25] they should be read together because when you read them all, then you use some from here, some from there, [00:49:30] and together they will give you, you know. [00:49:34] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:49:35] 36 chapters of amazing tools and strategies and the science behind it. [00:49:40] [00:49:40] Dr. Taz: Well, it's such important work. You've always been doing important work, and I am so [00:49:45] thrilled and honored that you're here today. I hope parents everywhere are watching, listening, sharing, [00:49:50] and making sure. I mean, I wish I had. More of this information, you know, when I was [00:49:55] in the throes of, of parenting. [00:49:56] Dr. Taz: I'm sure I'm gonna continue to need it. You know, we're not, we're not outta the woods yet, [00:50:00] but, but thank you again for taking time out today. Of course. To be with us. Thank you. This has so [00:50:05] amazing. I do wanna ask you a final question, but I think I know the answer. What makes you whole? [00:50:10] What is my answer? I would, I think you're going to [00:50:15] say it is being in connection with. [00:50:19] Dr. Taz: [00:50:20] Others, maybe more specifically, being in connection with your children, your daughter. So, I don't know. [00:50:24] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I [00:50:25] think for me, um, it's, it's very close. It's being in connection with this, [00:50:30] this mission. [00:50:30] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:50:31] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: To help parents become more conscious. My daughter's [00:50:35] amazing and I love my relationship, but that's not really, I don't want to live through that. [00:50:39] Dr. Taz: Right, [00:50:39] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: [00:50:40] right. [00:50:40] Dr. Taz: That's fair. [00:50:40] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: I have my own thing, which is this connection to this important work. [00:50:44] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:50:45] [00:50:45] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Uh, which is to help parents wake up so that we can do [00:50:50] parenting the way we intended to, which we all came into this journey wanting to do our best. [00:50:54] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:50:54] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: But [00:50:55] somehow we got too triggered. We got lost. We got too triggered, you know? [00:50:58] Dr. Taz: And stressed. [00:50:59] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. [00:50:59] Dr. Taz: [00:51:00] Overly triggered, overly stressed. And again, raised in cultures that tell us something [00:51:05] else is more important. [00:51:05] Dr. Shefali Tsabary: Yeah. [00:51:06] Dr. Taz: You know? Yeah. So thank you again. Thank you for taking time with me [00:51:10] today. I've loved it. Thank you everybody else for watching and listening to this episode of Whole Plus.[00:51:15] [00:51:15] Dr. Taz: We will see you guys next time. Before you go take a second to reflect on what stood [00:51:20] out for you today. Then if you can leave a quick review wherever you're [00:51:25] listening, it really helps other people discover Whole Plus and start their own healing [00:51:30] journey. And don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Dr. [00:51:32] Dr. Taz: Taz md. I love hearing [00:51:35] how these episodes are supporting you.