Latest / Shouty Brain / #4: Sarah
Transcript
- Trevor Holland: Hello, my name is Trevor Holland and welcome to the Shouty Brain Podcast. Once again, before we get kick off any further, I need to tell you I fucked up again on this one. The recording quality on my side of things is all over the shop. So once again, I apologize for that. I've since fixed the problem, but I can't unfortunately time travel and fix my own fucked up audio from this episode. It's not bad, but please bear with me. It is amateur hour here, and you know, this is what we've got. But it's much better now, as as hopefully you can hear. This week I've got a very special guest. Her name is Sarah. She is a photographer, writer, disability advocate, actor. I think I've covered it. She refers to herself as having a tapaz career, a little bit of everything. Fantastic guest, really interesting conversation about her Audi HD, her physical disability, and all sorts of stuff. So please enjoy. Hello, Sarah. Sarah: Hi, are you alright? Trevor Holland: Yeah, I'm really good. Thanks for joining me today. So we talked a little bit before we started recording. the the vibe really today is to to talk about you, what you do, what your kind of life is like and specifically kind of focus a bit on on your Audi H D 'cause that's kind of what brought me to you in the first place. I s I I I I stumbled across your your profile on Instagram. Sarah: No problem. Trevor Holland: And you had some content on there when you were talking about talking about having ADHD and having autism and what it's like. So first a little bit about you, Sarah. So from your Instagram, you're a disability advocate, you are an actor, a photographer, a writer. you told me just a minute ago that you have a tapaz career. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I say. Like, I used to say that I was freelance but I now say that I have a tap out of jobs because I literally can't stick to one thing. I think it is the ADHD brain. I like to do a lot of different things because I get bored so easily. So it's the photography, the writing, the social media, acting, whatever missed out. Yeah, just loads of different things. So I started off as a writer. So I always remember, me nan had this poem that I wrote when I was eight and it was called The Ghost That Likes Toast. And I did me masters and me BA in English and I always wanted to be a writer. And so I'd say that I'm a writer and I love to write. I write short stories, I write poetry, I write articles. I've written for the Huff Post, I've written for Metro, I've written for Cosmo and that's always there, that's always been like the little moneymaker but then I've always acted, I've acted since I was a kid and like the last year, two years I've got back into that and I love that but then I've also always had a camera in my hand, I've had a camera in my hand since I was four and I just literally like it's just one of these things I think it's just the creative mind, I can't get away from it. And I just then fell into social media and I wanna, well, it's like a need in me that I have to tell people or I have to educate people about like disability and I'm an Ambuletier wheelchair user. So like every time I go out, I get comments about things and like, there's just... People are horrible, do you know what mean? Like, I've had some nasty comments when I've been out and about. But then I also spin that on its head and I'll say to my editor, someone said this to me, can I write about it? So, it's just, I just can't pin it down, Trevor. Like, I need to do everything because I will get bored. But then there's the other side of it where I procrastinate to shit out of things, so. Do you know what I mean? So I'll go weeks without not doing anything but then I'm like I need to work and which job shall I do? Trevor Holland: absolutely. In terms of in terms of work, because what I've found in the in the in the time I've been speaking to to people with with Audi H D in particular is the prevailing career seems to be people seem to be self employed. that seems to be the the majority of people, and I I know that that the the statistics aren't very favorable for for Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: people with autism and being employed in a traditional capacity. I I am employed. I I I have a a full time job at the at the moment. Who knows how how long that's gonna last. But I I find that really interesting because I think really if I'm being honest, being self employed is what I wanna be. Because I've I've been doing this shit for too long, Sarah. I've I've been answering Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: to to people for too long. I've been having to live I've been having to live by a predetermined structure that isn't mine for too long, where I've been trying to just keep up with someone else's fucking ro routine. Sarah: Yeah, it's someone else. yeah I totally get it. So my brother, my brother's so ADHD and he's going through the process of getting diagnosed at the moment and he was in like growing up he was constantly working for other people and he was constantly getting sacked and he just couldn't, he could not like stick down to a job and 10 years ago, well while he was in these jobs even Sorry going off on a tangent. He was constantly making a business plan for his own business and he was determined to do it because he just knew that he couldn't stick to all these rules and all these structures of everybody else and 10 years ago he made his own business and it's so successful and he loves it and he's his own boss and he gets up at his own time and he does his own thing and it's amazing and he loves it and so like yeah. exactly what you're saying like you're your own boss and it's just it's just better. Trevor Holland: I still find it a little bit intimidating though because I've got obviously these two sides of me. One of them is the perfectionist who just will not settle unless I am satisfied that it is absolutely watertight and perfect. But then the other side is like, fuck it, that'll do. Sarah: Mm. Trevor Holland: And and I don't n n neither of those sides ever ever overall wins the the the argument, but I'm like I like I wanna do it all, but I can't be asked to do anything. Sarah: I got it. yeah i'm like that with when i'm when i'm shooting a self tape for an audition i'm like i've done it and i'm like it's amazing it's i've done it i've done it and then my boyfriend will watch it back and he's like maybe you should do it again and i'm like but i think i think it's great i've done it i've done it i can't be doing it again and i genuinely can't be arsed but then i'll watch it back and i'm like but it's not perfect maybe i should do it again but my adh decides like fuck it i can't be arsed like you've done it like it's Trevor Holland: You know, yeah. I actually I I think that actually is thinking about it, the ADHD tends to be the one that wins that argument most of the time because I I like to just I'm arrogant enough to think that I can do it in one. And most of the time I can. even if it's not perfect, I'll be like, It's still fucking better than most people will do. So I'll just think Sarah: Yeah, I'm the same. Trevor Holland: I won't do any homework, I'll just turn up, I'll do it, one and done, fuck it. It's fine. Sarah: Yes, yes. So I, in uni, oh my god, I was so bad in uni. Like, know, you know, like the ADHD, you've surely heard of like the little lies that ADHD is tell. And so like, people would say to me in, at uni like two weeks before like an assignment was due and they're like, oh, have you done your essay? And I was like, yeah, I did it ages ago. And I'd be like, fucking hell, haven't I even looked at the assignment? And like the night before. Trevor Holland: Go on. Sarah: I'd be sitting there like scribbling away at my assignment like shitting myself and then I'd hand it in and like my god it's so bad it's so bad and then I get like a 75 and I'm like distinction baby like and I'm like but I'd lie to everybody that did it like three weeks ago I hadn't but I'd be like because I wanted I wanted everybody to know that I was great that I was a great student Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: I was like perfect, that was doing everything on time and then I like I wasn't having to melt down when I knew that my ADHD was just like I've got this don't worry about it you're fucking sounds like and I wasn't really wasn't Trevor Holland: Well, I used to be embarrassed about it. So I w when I was at school I I I remember there there were plenty of times when I would be doing my homework on the bus to school that day. I I remember I took I took Latin at school and to a certain p I dropped it eventually 'cause I like w what the f wh why am I learning Latin? but I remember we would have vocabulary tests every now and then and I I remember that it was it it I think it was third period so we'd have our morning break and then we'd have Latin and I would I remember sitting in the quad ten minutes before the start of Latin memorising the vocabulary and getting a hundred percent on the test because I was really good at very last minute stuff. I'll I would for I would forget it within ten minutes of the exam. But I had these kind of strat strategies and I used to be embarrassed about it. So I think I used to do what you what you were saying, which was to to kind of I didn't want people to think that I was a last minute person and I I I had my shit together. But now I flipped that on its head and I've I've really leaned into the fact that I'll just do it on the night. Sarah: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: And I don't I don't hide behind it or pretend anymore. It's just like that's the way I approach everything and it wa it it works for me, so sod it. now what I was gonna ask you though is is how how long how long have you been self employed? I mean w what what was have have you had more traditional jobs prior to to what we do now? Sarah: Yeah. I had more traditional jobs when I first left school and uni but then it just didn't work out for me and it was mainly because of my chronic illness not because of ADHD or autism but it was like I was just really I've been chronically ill pretty much my whole entire life and like chronic pain and stuff like that so it was like I couldn't hold down a normal job but like what is it called the other self-employment, other employments, whatever it's called. Trevor Holland: I think it's just called employment. Sarah: couldn't have an important whatever job because of that really and I needed stuff to work around me so it was just it was just better. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Do mind talking a little bit about your about your physical disability? Sarah: Yeah, so I have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, hypermobility type, so I have chronic pain all over and I dislocate and I was diagnosed with that when I was 19 but I started with chronic pain when I was about 7 and I had a hip operation when I was 13 and between 13 and 19. I was just having loads and loads of pain and dislocations but the doctors were saying the pain was all in my head and yeah and my mum was like no she's dislocating her jaw, she's dislocating her shoulders and the pain isn't in her head and I was like no it's really not like my shoulders popped out but my doctor was sending me to psychiatrists Trevor Holland: Did not see evidence that he had dislocated things? Sarah: Yeah, but they were still just like... I was like a melodramatic woman, wasn't I? So it was just like, and because my jaw would like come out and pop back in while I was in school, it was just like, maybe it's just like, I don't know the way they were like making out like I was a bullshitter, do know what I mean? Like, cause the first time it happened, I remember the exact, I can like picture it. I was in high school, I was 14 and I bit into a tuna baguette and my jaw popped out and by the time I got to the nurse, it had gone back in. and was like, I couldn't talk and I love to talk so I went to the hospital and the x-rays and everything and they were like, yeah there's clearly signs of damage but... and then it carried on happening and then me mum and dad eventually paid private because no one had taken me seriously and within five minutes I was diagnosed with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome because he just did like all these bendy things with me and different like bends, my knees bend backwards and he had me in for two weeks of intensive physiotherapy and then I've got chronic migraine I've got a condition called hemiplegic migraine where the left side of my body paralyses and the first time I had that I got sent to hospital because we thought I was having a stroke your speech slurs, your mouth, your whole side of your face like does all this it's absolutely horrific took two years to diagnose that because you don't actually get, well I don't actually get a migraine with it so it was absolutely terrifying and that was when I started having that when it was covid so I missed covid because I was in bed for like two years it was horrific I'm under amazing treatment for that now thankfully yeah I mean if I start listening all my conditions will be here all day so but they're like the main ones but Trevor Holland: And so you're you're a wheelchair user, but I've do you y do you use a wheelchair all the time or not not all the time? Sarah: No, I use it mostly when I'm outdoors and then I use crutches indoors. Trevor Holland: Wow. It's it's it's crazy that Sarah: And then there's the ADHD and Autism. I've started collecting conditions Trevor, it's just like a fun game that I do now. Trevor Holland: Well it's it's It's it's n it's nuts to me when I hear stories about how dismissive doctors can be, about stuff like that. I mean I've I you know I to to a to a lesser extent, you know, because my not being heard was my you know, my my my brain stuff. but but yeah, th it's been a frustration for a for a long time. But Sarah: yeah, massively. Yeah. Trevor Holland: Tell me about how you came to be diagnosed Audi H D, when when that actually occurred and what brought it on, if you don't mind. Sarah: Okay. So, so like I've always like felt that there was something like different about me. Like I've always like, you know when you just, you just know like even as a kid I was like I think, I think differently and like I like blurt out things or like why do I think this way or why do I say things in like I remember I was in uni and I'd like I just like say inappropriate things at inappropriate times and then I'd be thinking to myself like why am I saying that like shut up and like some people don't say this and like or I'm like just just just things and then me my nephew was my nephew started getting like told in school my nephew by the way isn't like my sunshine and light I absolutely adore him I don't have kids don't want kids like kids are not for me I love my dog you can see from my cup my dog is my whole entire world right? Background of my phone he's my absolute baby but my nephew is my whole shining light and I adore him and so he started getting called like naughty and disruptive and like just horrible words in school and he was missing and he started bringing them in at play times and stuff and he was missing his play times and I was like Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: this doesn't sound like my nephew, I know my nephew and he was seven and so we started looking into ADHD for him and because I knew what he was like, I knew he jumps from couch to couch he like standing on the table and pretending he's a helicopter he's very very hyperverbal and I was like okay so maybe it's something else and so we proper looked into things and yeah Cain's ADHD and then I was like hang on a minute all these things that this kid does I do and I was like I've never really looked into it before because I just thought ADHD meant you bounce off the walls and you jump around a lot and you're very hyperactive but I didn't realise with women it's a lot of internal thoughts and it was like a lot of talking and there was a lot of it and I was just like hang on a minute is that is is that me? and when I started looking into it for him I was like my god because I'd never ever seen it in that way before and I'd never like it just didn't it never occurred to me that that was me and I was just like fucking hell my god are all these things I've been doing all these years that and so when I looked into it for him I was like my god and then when me and him are together we're just were the same and I was like my god and so I started looking into a diagnosis for me and then I was like am I also autistic because I have real bad sensory issues and so I ended up getting my autistic I ended up having my autistic assessment first and in that assessment he said to me I can't officially diagnose you with ADHD but you really need to get an ADHD assessment I went, oh I've got that next month. And was like, okay because you definitely are autistic but you very, very much ADHD as well. I was like, oh no, no, no, I know I am. And he was like, but I'm getting that next month. He went, yeah, can't diagnose you with that but you're both. And I was like, thanks. Trevor Holland: So so yeah, you y you you suspected that you had ADHD. How did you arrive at the at the thought that you might be autistic as well? Sarah: It was because of the way I shut down, like, and I can't talk about my feelings and I can't, like, the way I am with sensory things, like, I made a, I made, I've got very contrasting lists of me ADHD and me autism and it was, some of the boxes on the ADHD didn't make sense for... autism and the... I don't know why I'm doing this... like the the autistic like things just ticked, do you know what mean? like and so it was just... I knew that it didn't make sense. Do know what mean? Trevor Holland: Right. So you had y you got your autism diagnosis first and then you had your ADHD assessment separately with and I assume you were then diagnosed then as well. now, how long ago was this, if you don't mind me asking? Sarah: of your course. two years. Trevor Holland: Okay. And what's what's changed in your life since since being equipped with this information? Sarah: So I started medication for the ADHD and I was like suddenly just like I can focus now. Like okay, okay. The first day that I took it I felt like my head was a cloud for the first day which was just strange but then after that it was like wow okay this is how people work. It was just... Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Right. Sarah: odd like and then there's days when I when I've like forgot to take a shocker and I'm just like it's weird like I can't function at all Trevor Holland: You w and you wonder how you could ever before, right? Yeah. Sarah: And... Yeah. Yeah. It's so odd. Like, and I feel really sad. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sarah: because I'm like, I genuinely can't do anything. and feel really sad on those days. but yeah it's strange because I actually like taking them because I know I can like do- I can't do everything because I still procrastinate loads but they do help Trevor Holland: It it makes d it makes different a difference in in ways that I yeah, I've been taking ADHD medication now for Jesus, nearly fifteen years and Sarah: soon. Yeah. Trevor Holland: When I try think about what it actually does for me, I find it difficult to put into words, but I do remember when I f when th that first experience, I remember leaving boots with my little pack of methylphenidate in my pocket and to had a little bottle of fizzy drink with me and I took it in the middle of Bromley and I'm like 'cause I think initially I was given the the Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: immediate release version and since then I'm I I I I'm on the prolonged release. I have been for years now. But I remember that first one. I d I just see I don't know how much of it is is my own memory letting me down and how much of it I'm kind of sugarcoating or or whatever. But I just seem to remember Just quiet. Sarah: Yeah? Trevor Holland: I just I just remember suddenly I was just going about my day and then suddenly I was aware of the fact that there was silence in my head for the first time in my life. the fuck? I almost felt like I was in a sensory deprivation chamber because I'm like almost like dis almost unnervingly quiet. And I didn't know what to do with the quiet. Because I'm so used to there being noise all the time that suddenly there wasn't any. And I felt a bit weird about it to be honest. I I I I I I just didn't know what to do with myself. And then I started being really retrospectively pissed off that I'd had to do twenty eight years with that noise. And I thought Sarah: noise yeah because that's what that's what i meant about like the cloud i was like what is this yeah Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: so odd. Trevor Holland: Is it's so so yeah, the the with with the with the ADHD obviously you have the option of of of medication which does quiet down some of the more destructive parts of it. It it it takes the edge off probably more more more accurately. It takes the edge off and it makes you more capable of just living a life that seems to function in in in in ways that otherwise wouldn't. But it doesn't stop you from having ADHD. It just stops you from it it it means the difference for me it meant the difference between being able to hold down a job and not. For me it meant the difference between paying my bills and being chased by bailiffs. For me it meant having one girlfriend for a number of years rather than one girlfriend every couple of months. it changed the kind of stability of my life. But I still have all of the same flights of fancy, the same impulsive ideas. But I have a way of taking a step back before I jump off the the cliff. I I I'll still have that I'm gonna do this. And then I'll be but what if I don't? And I never had the what if I don't before. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, same. Because I was, I'm very, very impulsive, especially with like buying things and like shopping and stuff like that because I'd be like... I'm like, I don't give a shit about money and but like now I'm like, and I get such buyer's regret like horrifically so bad to the point like I'd cry yeah so bad and I'd never be able to save and I'd never be able to like like with money it was terrible I was never in like debt or anything but I was always like on my last pennies and things like that Trevor Holland: Really? Sarah: But now I've got like savings and I'm good with money, but like I would buy things and I'd like sit holding them and being like I shouldn't have bought you I shouldn't have bought you and things like that and it was so stupid and it would just be like I remember buying this is such a ridiculous story, but I remember buying a clock Right and it's 40 quid and I hate the sound of ticking clocks I hate the sound of them and I don't know why I bought it but I was like I fucking hate you I you, I shouldn't have bought you. And I'm like, now what the fuck was I doing? Like I just took it back, but I hate taking things back to a shop. Like that's an autistic thing. Hate phone calls, hate taking things back, hate returning things, hate like speaking to people in a shop. But I always go shopping with my nephew because he's great at this and I'll go to him and go and... and get a worker and he's just like, "'Scuse me, my auntie needs somebody' because he's so ADHD and so confident with that type of thing and I just like retreat. And I can't go and find a worker. That's fine, Auntie Sarah, I'll go and get someone. He orders in restaurants and everything for me because if I'm like having a quiet day. Trevor Holland: Before I forget if we're talking about this retreat, I just wrote down the word retreat before I forgot about it. Because I'm interested because I I'm I'm very similar to you in that sense. I I I flitter between and it's all depends on the alignment of the stars as to whether as to whether I'm gonna be sociable or do not do not talk to me. now, how does that tie in Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, so. Yeah, same. Trevor Holland: To acting. Sarah: This is what I was about to say. I knew you were going to ask me that. Because I said this to my friend a few weeks ago. I was like, how can I be autistic and be an actor? Like, how does this work for me? And she was like, because my friend, she's autistic and ADHD as well. And she's like, I could never do what you do. I could never be on TV and stuff. And I was like, I know, but how do I do it? Like how? Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: and she's like, just because you've got the confidence to do that and I was like, I know but like how do I? and I was like, because sometimes I don't want to speak to anybody and like I don't like going to parties, I don't like speaking to people, I don't want people to know who I am and she's like, but other days you're ADHD and you do and I'm like, mmm okay but it's like, am I masking? Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: Um, like... Is it... Is it... I don't know. I don't know. Is it my job? It's my job. Trevor Holland: Sure. I was gonna I was gonna ask whether it does tie into masking in some way, because th there is the argument that for autistic folks, so much of your life is a performance anyway. because you are inventing a character that you think is one that's gonna be accepted by society. So you you you like right today I'm gonna be this person because this person would talk to these people, though they would they would gesticulate in this manner, they would they would do this with their face when they talk. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yes. Yes. Trevor Holland: So I'm gonna be that person and I'm gonna largely get away with it until I burn out. So does it help you in a way, I guess, maybe? Sarah: Yeah. And this is, sorry. And this is what I was just about to say. Like I've got a post coming up about being a linguistic chameleon because my brother and my nephew take the piss out of me all the time saying, go, what voice is Auntie Sarah gonna do today? Because whoever I'm with, I'll take on their accent or I'll take on their voice or I'll take on their mannerisms. And I do I do voiceovers as well. And so I can do a different accent. I can do so many different accents. and so whoever I'm with I will be that person because who and they're like who are you Auntie Sarah? Who are you going to be today? And so is sometimes I'm like who actually am I? Am I even Scouse? Trevor Holland: That's fascinat I Sarah: She's like, I was born in Liverpool but like... Trevor Holland: I I find that absolutely fascinating because I I wonder if it's i if if you're able to do that because you're autistic. because I I everything that I know about how to interact with people i i is is stuff that I've I've had to observe and learn. so I can pretty much infiltrate any situation and be alright there, right? But only for a short amount of time. But I'll be able to turn up and I if as long as I know what the vibe is and I've I've already done my due diligence, so I've already kind of scanned the room and I've worked out This person, that's their motivation, that's theirs, that's theirs. that person's cheating on their wife hundred percent. I work out everything about everybody. And then I think this is the now the person that I need to be to like eth you know, to to admission impossible my way into this room and no one notice that I'm fucked up. Right. Right. So it must be Sarah: Yeah Yeah? Yeah? But I'm also reading a book at the moment about acting and it says you're born, you're born to copy people and to act. The first thing you do is copy people. That's how you learn. So we're... Trevor Holland: Yeah. But I think that's the same thing every everyone to an Sarah: So are we wrong, Trevor, being autistic or are they neurotypicals? Trevor Holland: Well, I think everyone every ev yeah, but I think I think everyone mirrors to an extent, don't they? But but we we r rely on mirroring to survive. I think that's the difference. Sarah: No, I'm joking. Yeah. yeah definitely and so i think when when my brother my nephew like anti-serial you're gonna be today i'm like whoever i'm around like whoever i need whoever i need to copy because i don't bloody know Trevor Holland: Mm. actually caused me a little bit of an existential crisis at the time when I was having my autism assessment. One of the things I brought up was and I still don't know the answer to this is I spent so much of my time mar so much of my life masking and performing that when I in the cold light of day sit down with myself, I do not know what my actual personality is. I don't actually know who I am. I know who I Sarah: Yeah? Trevor Holland: I I don't I don't know what my my real personality is and I don't often often I don't know how I genuinely feel about things. Do you ever get that feeling? How do you what do you do with that feeling? Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. It's like... Because you surround yourself with so many different, well, not so many because the social circle's small. You surround yourself with people and you're like, I was this person with this person and then I'm this person with this person. You come home and you're like, now I'm, and I don't know, it's difficult, isn't it? Because, Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: When you try to unmask, there's just what's left. Trevor Holland: It's only been two years for you as well, so it's not it's not I mean I I've only been a few weeks into this. That that was what one of the things I I I I kind of made made a conscious decision at the time. It's like right now is where I I go through a period where I try to unmask myself and and try to be more try to just find a way to be genuine in a way that is uno unapologetic. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: in in a way where I'm I'm I'm don't want to I don't wanna be a people pleaser anymore. I don't want Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been saying that but I find it so difficult. Like my mum's such a people pleaser and she's ADHD. She won't admit it but she has. You know when you just know that everyone around you is ADHD? But going back to what I was just saying before, I have called myself the girl of make believe since I was like 17 and it's not made me, it's not... hit me until recently in therapy that that's my like ADHD Autism. masking, unmasking, I don't know because I wrote a poem about me, her, the girl of make-believe when I was 17 and Like, as if she doesn't exist. And forever, that's who I've called myself. and it makes sense to me. with my Audi HD, but I didn't know I was Audi HD then. Do you know what I mean? I'll on air, yeah. Trevor Holland: yeah, that's that that's really interesting. Sarah: Okay, yeah, got you now. Trevor Holland: It's the the people pleasing part is is probably the most difficult because that's probably my strongest defence mechanism and always has been. Is to to not upset Apple cards and to not stand out too much because I want I don't want anyone to be upset with me. I don't want to ever confront anyone. I I don't want even to think that someone might be annoyed with me, 'cause I think that anyway. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: So if I do if I do everything I can to make sure everyone's always in a good mood with me, anyone likes me, then it makes my life a lot easier. But for me for me to be genuine and unmask myself, I'm a bit less apologetic about who I am. But that feels like I would be changing my personality to do that because that's my nature now, is is just try to keep everyone happy all the time because I don't Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: I can't live in a world where people are out out l coming out for me, you know. I can't be that person. It's tough. Sarah: yeah yeah but then you you you you're people pleased to the point where you'll say yes to things when you want to say no and then you're gonna say you're gonna say you so i'll say yeah i'll come to that thing when i don't want to go and then i'll event when it comes to the time i'll be like no i'm not coming and then i've upset them anyway So I'm like, and then I'm annoyed with myself, and then I think they're annoyed with me because I've said, because I've eventually cancelled anyway, and then I'm upset either way. Trevor Holland: That's one area that really helped me actually is is is knowing that I'm autistic and then letting the people around me know that I'm autistic is when I am asked to do something in three months time I can now just say you know what probably not I don't really fancy that that's not really my kind of thing and I'm less inclined to to make that false promise that I'm gonna do it. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I need to be better at that. Trevor Holland: Have you got the thing that a lot of people have got, including me, the the the sense of justice, right and wr. Yeah. Now that's that's I think the part of my autism that's come out the most recently. Is in in this kind of trying not to be a people pleaser thing, the only part of my life where Sarah: Yes. Yes. Massively. Trevor Holland: I'm not a people pleaser is when I see injustice happening somewhere. And I will be the one who will address the elephant in the room that no one else would address. And it will frustrate me. And I'm talking more in a kind of work scenario when we're having a a meeting with 20 people and that meeting doesn't make any sense. The the meeting happening in the first place, this could be a fucking email. Why are we all here? You know, it's that feeling. But then when I when I see that something doesn't make sense Sarah: Okay. Yeah. Trevor Holland: And no one is saying it. And I know that, because I'm looking at the faces around me and I'm seeing everyone is thinking that I'm thinking here, but I know that I'm gonna be the only fucker who's gonna say it. And I know that no one's gonna back me up on it, even if they agree with me. But I can't not say it. I'm gonna have to say, right, excuse me. What you've just said is wrong, and this doesn't make any sense. And it started to get me not in trouble. Sarah: Yeah. Say it, yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: But people I'm st apparently I'm getting a bit of a reputation for being the guy who will just say the thing that no one else will say. And I like that, actually. I like that. That's cool. That makes me feel a bit of a badass because I'll be the one the one who will just not put up with the horse shit. And that's great. 'Cause I've wanted to be that person for a long time and I'm I'm b I'm I'm becoming that person now. That's great. How does that manifest for you that Sarah: Yes. Yeah. makes it. Trevor Holland: the the the the the justice side of things. Sarah: so I don't like confrontation, hate confrontation but if I know that something needs to be said and it won't be I don't give a fuck like there's like, if there's family feuds going on and like I'm not gonna say specific things but like there's things going on in my family and somebody won't say shit I'm gonna say it and I don't give a shit to be honest like I'm standing up for people, I don't care. Like even... I had an example of something completely different when you were talking and it's gone. But even if I'm out, if somebody's saying something, like being a knob to somebody, like... When I was out a few weeks ago, there's like, this guy was like saying shit, you know as I'm just going past in my wheelchair and they think I'm not gonna say something back to them because I'm alone in my wheelchair. A group of people. Like, I get shouted like, Timmy, retard, all this type of stuff. I'm just, no, serious, a group of them. And they think because I'm alone I'm not gonna say anything and I'm like, Fuck off, I'll run you over. And they're just like... Trevor Holland: my god, the little wheelchair lady's got a voice. my god, she can Sarah: But most people are not... Yeah, like, oh, she's not gonna say anything because she's alone, do you know what mean? And I'm like, get to fuck! And they're all like, and then people around me are looking at me like I'm the bad guy. Am I... What? They can say whatever they want because... Wait, no? Trevor Holland: It's weird though, isn't it? Because yeah, you n you never you never want a confrontation but then there are certain things that will just completely overwrite that instinct. Because you see Sarah: Yeah? Because sometimes I won't say anything and then other times I'm just like, it's not the fucking day for it mate. Like, you've caught me on a day where I'm gonna fuck you up. And I will run you over. Trevor Holland: Yeah, I think that's what it is. I think it's it's when you are maybe over stimulated or you're overwhelmed you or you're already starting to run out of fucks and then something will happen that will just cancel out your fear of confrontation and you'll be like, No, t not today and you'll do it. Sarah: Yeah? yeah yeah like it's not not today satan yeah but Trevor Holland: I mean the the times that I d I do say what needs to be said through all those times there are a hundred times when I haven't and I'll I'll still think about a thing that happened thirty years ago or twenty years ago or however long ago where I think I should have said something and I still think about it and I still replay that conversation. It's always the shower. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, same. Yeah. Should have said, yeah, we should have said something, yeah, same. Yeah. I'll be like in the shower, yeah, I'll be in the shower and I'm like, bitch, why didn't you say this? Yeah. Yeah. Or I'm like, it's like 3 a.m. and I can't get asleep and I'm like, why the fuck didn't you say to that fucking bitch? Trevor Holland: Always the fucking shower. Yeah. I know. And do you also do it where you're not only are you replaying previous highlights, you're you're you're planning y you know that the conversation's gonna be happening at some point in the future and you are working out all the different ways that might play out. And you're assuming that it's gonna be a a an adversarial conversation. Even though it's probably not an in in in your own experience will tell you it's never been. But what if this is the one that turns into a confrontation? And so Sarah: Yes! Trevor Holland: in in my head in the shower, I'd be like, Well, I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna say that. And I'm like, and if I do, that's gonna be wicked because it's gonna be like the because it's the the most cutting thing that I could possibly say in that moment. I'm like, I'm gonna do it. That's gonna be great if that happens because that person's a fucking arsehole and they're gonna deserve it. And then you actually have the conversation. And it's like, yes, yes, yeah, yeah. And everyone's such so nice to each other. But it's the same shit every time. But I love those Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: Pl planning the planning the battle that I'm gonna that I'm never gonna have. Sarah: Oh yeah. Yeah. Or I do it in the car and I'm just like yeah I've got this, I've got it, I'm gonna do this. And then I completely forgot everything that I was gonna say. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: Just like, okay. Absolute loser. Trevor Holland: Can you hear my cat? Sarah: You Trevor Holland: He's he's he's lonely, he feels he he's a very needy child and Well, it's like I haven't spoken to him for f f forty seven minutes. and so it's it's it's cr crisis point. He and he can get into this little kind of partition y thing that I've made. He can get into it easily. But he yeah, he's he he's not g he's not willing to accept. Yeah. Sarah: Abandoned. terrible. No, let's just kick it off. Trevor Holland: You're a ca y I know you love your your cockapoo, right? Sarah: Yeah, my boy. Trevor Holland: i are you primarily a dog person? Do you like cats as well? Sarah: I like all animals but the dogs. We're a very big dog family. What I was saying about my brother's business is his dog business. He's a dog walker and pet sitter. Trevor Holland: great. I hear I hear that a lot with with autistic people of this connection with animals. I'm learning I'm learning I'm learning about this more and more and I've been absolutely obsessed with with all creatures since I was a teenager and and this isn't an uncommon thing either preferring them to people most of the time. Sarah: Yeah, so we've always got the ducks. animals, you know, massively. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, literally on my keys I've got a keyring that says I prefer animals to people. Trevor Holland: Right. Right. And I take it to the extent where If I see any kind of creature on the street. Sarah: Are you saying you're gonna stalk them? Because I do. Trevor Holland: I I I wanna meet them and hang out with them. But I will also I'm never gonna kill one. Ever gonna kill it. I w I'll I will sidestep an ant on the street. I'm not gonna kill a kill a thing. Why would I kill a thing? And I I Sarah: Yes, same. What? No, obviously. Yeah. I slow down my car to like to to look at to look at them and and my boyfriend's like there's cars behind you I'm like I don't give a shit if there's a dog Trevor Holland: So like I'm I'm pretty unflappable when it comes to excuse me, the ki the kind of films that I watch. Any amount of gratuitous violence doesn't faze me in the slightest. I'll watch a film where a thousand babies are beheaded. Not that I have, but if that film existed, I'd be like, it wouldn't faze one dog gets punched I'm like Sarah: Same. Yeah, fine. No, not watching it. No. If it- no. No, I'm not watching it. No. No, no. True, true, true crime. Serial killers. I'll watch it go into sleep. One animal even remotely gets hurt. Absolutely not. I would rather die. Trevor Holland: If I know that there's a danger for an animal in a film about happening, mate, it's crazy, isn't it? Right. It's so intense that that that feeling of I will I do not want to witness that, even in a fictional capacity. Sarah: No. No. So there was a film when I was a child called Once Upon a Forest and it was fictional and at the very end, the little animals, it was animated and all the little animals can't find their family and all of them then get reunited and the little mole can't find its family and his glasses are broke. Trevor Holland: Right. Sarah: I sobbed, was sobbing and then eventually his family come in, I'm still sobbing and my grandad had recorded that and then Snow White on the same on the same video and I always wanted to watch Snow White and he always fast forwarded it and he always stopped it with a little mole and I used to sob my heart out and I was like we can't watch it, we can't watch it, I can't see the mole, I can't see the mole Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Mm. Sarah: he's like it's fine it finds its family and I was like no but he doesn't find it for two minutes and he's just like Sarah it's fine he finds it and I'm like no we're never watching Snow White ever again because I always think of the bloody mole Trevor Holland: What do you think it is about animals with people like us? Sarah: I we've just got like a connection with them because they... I don't... They just have unconditional love, isn't it? And they rely on us. Trevor Holland: I see I just see purity when I see animals, right? I just see this purity to them. Sarah: They're precious, they're like... Like my dog just loves me. He doesn't judge me. There's no... He doesn't... he doesn't... yeah? Like people always want something from you? Trevor Holland: And I think Sarah: There's always a judgement, like, you have to, like... How'd you explain it? I don't know. I feel like with people there's just something isn't there? like... there's an expectation. Trevor Holland: Yeah. I think Sarah: and Trevor Holland: I think People overco have overcomplicated their own lives for for generations and we've evolved into these creatures that shouldn't have lives as complicated as they are. We've become too intelligent for our own good. but also Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: People are unpredictable. People have ulterior motives. And people, you know, if you want to go down this road, people are the enemy of animals. You know, they they they they just fucking ball t bulldoze their way through the planet and don't give a shit. And then you just see animals just doing animal stuff. And they're just living. Sarah: Yeah. Nah. Do know what? Yeah. Do know what I don't like? You know when you lose your animal? Someone just says to you, yeah. Just get another one. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. okay. Sarah: Just it, just get it, just get another one and you're like, that was, that was literally my family. That was my, that was my baby, like they were part of the family. Just get another one. Trevor Holland: I don't know why people don't understand that. It's like telling someone to have another baby if your baby dies. Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: And it's it's the same people who will because I've got I've got a hairless Sphinx cat and he's the most beautiful creature in the universe. But some people think Sphinx cats are are ugly, right? And th for someone to to say to you, your cat's ugly, they think that that's just an innocuous thing to say. Would you tell someone that their child is ugly? You wouldn't. So don't tell me my fucking cat is ugly. You Sarah: Yeah, yeah. And now? Now? Yeah? Trevor Holland: Asshole. Sarah: Yeah? And now? Well, I've got a post as well coming up about things that have triggered my RSD recently. So my brother's my dog Walker and he said to me the other day, he went, someone called Ted Scruffy the other day and I was like, what? and I literally felt like a gut punch and I was like he and I was like because everyone always says to me oh my god he's so cute he's so cute and I was like someone said he was scruffy I was like are you joking I went where did they live and he told me like he told me the area and I was like I'm coming with you next time and I went what are you gonna say he was like what are you doing I know you can't come with me I was like I'm fucking coming with you I went and you can point that fucking dick I'd out to me he went what are you gonna say to them I was like Trevor Holland: Ha ha. Sarah: I don't know yet but I'm gonna fucking say something when you call me saying something I went, he is not scruffy I went, he is groomed every single time he's just like calmed down and I was like no I was like no, he is not scruffy Trevor Holland: But you see but it's a really weird thing to say about an animal as well. They're scruffy, what they don't make enough effort before they leave the house. Sarah: Yeah? I know, I was like... Trevor Holland: Mm. Sarah: So weird. Trevor Holland: So have you actually had had this situation? Have you had the have you had the confrontation? Have you seen this person? Sarah: No, no, no, not yet, because my dog had surgery last week so he's not been allowed out. Trevor Holland: I saw on Instagram. What's is is i is is Teddy, right? Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, it does. Trevor Holland: How how how is he okay? Sarah: Yeah, yeah, he's fine. He had like a fatty lump underneath his armpit, because of the location of it, if it got any bigger, it was going to restrict his movement. So he's fine. He's just got, he's just got like, it's a horrible wound. But he's fine. He's trying to jump everywhere and he's not supposed to be jumping, but he's very bloody lively. he's fine. Trevor Holland: Has he like a little little bo little bald patch and stuff where he's had surgery? Sarah: Yeah, yeah and he's got loads of stitches but he's wearing pajamas, he's got camo pajamas on today. So he can't scratch it. I've got him all kinds of pajamas Trevor, he looks absolutely ridiculous. Trevor Holland: He can't see him at the moment 'cause he's got his camo pajamas on. He's invisible. Sarah: Yeah, he's in the bedroom with me boyfriend. He's got camo pajamas on and a big massive watermelon inflatable cone. Trevor Holland: Love it. I don't think I even knew about that. That that was that inflatable cones were a thing. Sarah: haha Yeah, they do cheese ones, doughnuts, everything, but I've seen the watermelon and we all love watermelon so I was like, he's having that. Trevor Holland: Tell me because we just talked about we just talked about watermelons, I'm I'm obsessed with melon as a thing. but but tell me about some food textures that you cannot handle. Sarah: my god, I'm worse with like, erm... tactile textures than food textures but food textures I don't like like grizzly like chicken or anything my boyfriend hates it when I do that do know if if ham's got like white bits on or it's got that like gristle in it I would like spit it out like horrible Trevor Holland: Ha ha ha. Sarah: I can't touch felt. I can't touch sponge. Trevor Holland: I saw I saw a felt come up on your Instagram. I wanna Sarah: Yeah, sponge absolutely knocks me sick. my god. Velvet. Trevor Holland: Yes, thank you, Velvet. I was hoping you're gonna say velvet 'cause that f freaks me out. stroke it stroke it one direction, I'm perfectly happy with it. But knowing that it's got the other direction, I can't touch you there. Yeah. Sarah: Vile. Yeah. And... Vile. Vile. And Scousers love grey velvet. What the fuck? Like, every- all of them have got grey velvet everywhere. The fucking mings they need to stop. Ugh! Vile. Erm... I'm gonna get cancelled by all the Scousers. Trevor Holland: Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. It's it's fine, they should know better. Sarah: I like this shot. Dirty cows. What else? I'm doing this, I'm, ha ha. Trevor Holland: What happens if you b have if you bi you buy a new top and it's got a scratchy label in it? Sarah: No, I'm not about that life. Even when I was little, me mum used to have to cut everything out and then put like, erm, that like little tape over it because I was a demon when I was a child. Absolute devil. hate to do. Trevor Holland: See, I have the same problem. So my my autism will not allow me to wear clothes with a label inside. But my ADHD will not give me the patience to unpick it. So I will cut it out and so I'll end up with a big I'll I've then I've got then I've got a big hole. I've got I've got a big hole where the where the thing used to be. Sarah: no and then you've got the horrible thing, no see my... Yeah, no. See, my boyfriend's ADHD and autistic so I always say that I'm like more ADHD than autistic but he's more autistic than ADHD and we've literally just been on holiday together and... Trevor Holland: Ha ha. Sarah: So when we when we went out he was meticulously planning everything and I was like just let's just go let's just go we'll just get we'll just get there we'll just like find a restaurant and we'll be sound like it doesn't matter and he's going no babe we need to like find a few different places and we'll see if they're the wheelchair accessible I was like when we get there we'll find out and he's like no no no we'll I'll have a look first and I'll see if the wheelchair accessible and I was like no let's just go I'm starving come on and he's like well let's just find if they're accessible and then we'll get and I'm like I'm fucking starving we'll just find out when we get there but if we turn up and they're accessible and I'm like and so he's like trying to find all these fucking restaurants and I was just like... and then who's doing that for every day, making an itinerary. Trevor Holland: interesting that you could that that you've got this dichotomy, you know, where y y y you both have both conditions, but the opposite ones are the the the the favoured one. so does Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. He's such a planner. But then on the other hand, I love to plan certain things. I'll plan, like, so we, I'm a massive musical theatre fan and I've got our theatres booked, our theatre booked up to 2028. So I've got that all done. I, I, because I need to know that we're seeing all these shows. So like that's done. He hasn't got a fucking clue. Like, I'm just like, are you free in January 2028? And he's like, whatever, do know what I mean? And he doesn't care about all that type of stuff. Like, we're going to a wedding in... his mate, we're going to a wedding in September in Germany. His friend, he's not got it planned at all, but he's got a plan. He's not. But if it was down to me, it'd be sorted. I don't know where the fuck we're going. He'll sort her at some point. But like all the other things but like and then we're dead messy. Like our house is like just fucking all over the way. But planning that type of thing when we're on holiday is like and it fucking does my head in because I'm just not like that. I'm like dead spontaneous. But then I like to like But if I'm planning something on the day as in I've had it planned for weeks and something goes wrong I will have a fucking meltdown I will lose my head and if we're supposed to go at a certain time I will be raging but I'm always late always late, late for everything but I'm I'm late on my time but if someone else is late I don't like it Trevor Holland: It's that lovely, beautiful contradiction of Audi H D, isn't it? It's like it make it makes you a hypocrite. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, if I'm ready, but I'm 10 minutes late, that's fine. But if you're not ready, I'm gonna fucking kill you. Trevor Holland: It's and and I'm I I get accused by my wife a lot of being time blind as well. So so sh sh I do I do all the cooking at home and so s you know, if the conversation is what time's dinner and I'll say it's in about forty five minutes. She's lived with me for long enough to know that forty five minutes means an hour and a half. But I still am adamant that it means forty five minutes. You know, I've got no idea how long things take. At all. Sarah: I'm definitely time blind, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, same. Trevor Holland: And I'm I'm late a lot. But yeah, if if if I'm ready to go, if my wife and I are going out somewhere, and I'm ready and I ask her how long it's gonna be until she's ready and she says thirty seconds. If it's thirty one seconds, I'm fuming. Sarah: Yeah, that's what I'm like. Yeah. Trevor Holland: It's what a piece of shit. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it just, it does my head in. Because he'll watch me getting ready and like doing my makeup, I've done my hair and everything and then I'm dressed and then he'll start to get ready and I'm like... You've seen me do my makeup for the last 15 minutes and then it took me 4 minutes to put my clothes on. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: And goes, it'll only take me five minutes. Well, why the fuck didn't you do it when I was getting dressed? and I'm like, I'm going to sit in the car, because I'm that region. Trevor Holland: What I'll ask you before we wrap up is I I wanna know How you How how how are you at regulating your emotions? Sarah: Did you just hear me say that I was raging off to the lead? Somebody not being ready? No, I know. No. I think I'm better than I used to be because when I was younger I was absolutely horrific. I used to like throw TV remotes. I threw an iron at me brother once. Yeah, I unplugged it from the wall and threw it at him. No. Yeah, I used to punch walls. Trevor Holland: Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, but that's just perfectly normal shit to me. got no creases on his head anymore though, do I say? Sarah: So I don't do any of that anymore. I'm not like, I'm not angry. Like I'm very, I'm very sensitive but I've always been too sensitive. Like always, like I've always cried. I don't cry as much anymore but I'm like, I'm very emotional as in like I get, I suffer very, well very, I suffer a lot with RSA. and I do find things difficult and little things bother me but they always have you know like being left out of things that I don't even necessarily think I'm being left out of and But I think I'm better at managing it and speaking about it now, whereas I used to just hold it all in. I think that's just learning about myself a bit more. And yeah, I think I'm a lot better. I think that's with age as well. Trevor Holland: think talking about is is is important. So RS so RSD for those who might not know is rejection sensitivity dysphoria, right? and so where I've got a bit better at that is I'm not h hiding how I feel about a certain thing. So the classic is in in a work setting or even in a personal setting when someone might send you a message saying we need to talk Sarah: Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Holland: then that's that's all they'll say about it. Right, well what and and so that then becomes the most horrendous thing. at work it might be an email, a meeting request and it will just have catch up as the n as the title and you've got no idea what it's about. And it's in three and it's in four days time. And so you what you're gonna spend the next four days Just at crisis point. Or I'll go, Could you just you you know what I'm like, so could you just tell me what this is about, whether I'm in trouble, how long it's gonna be, and what I need to know beforehand. Let's not fuck about and so people are a bit more forthcoming with me now, which they have to be, because how can you live like that? Just thinking everyone hates you all the time, because th that's w we're we're always on the cusp of thinking everyone hates you all the time. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Trevor Holland: So anything that's gonna possibly reinforce that preconceived notion that you've got is you've got yeah. Yeah, the reason I asked was 'cause you were talking about the raging because I that's the one the one thing I think that's that's where it manifests the most noticeably. By and large, people will will have no idea that I've got either ADHD or or or autism. but when they see me like for example the thing it's something about b being taken by surprise in a painful way. So I'll s say if if if if I hit my head, not in a really painful way, but if I just not 'cause I'm quite tall, if I hit my head on something, I'll be so unspeakably angry about that. Even when I'm eating and I I I catch the inside of my cheek, don't talk to me for ten seconds. Literally ten seconds. Any Sarah: Yeah. Trevor Holland: After that I will be fine. But for those ten seconds, if you talk to me, I do not know what I'll do to you. But but if I hit my head, I have such rage about it. I have destroyed things in my house because I've hit my head on something. I hit my head on a on a shelf, I destroyed a cupboard door, and it i I just can't do anything about it. That that is I I've I've never hit a person in my life. I'm I I've never been a violent person t in any capacity. But I will destroy things in my house. And then I find I it goes through a like a a a loop because the thing that ends up bringing me back and calming me down is then repairing the thing that I've destroyed. I'll go out and buy a new cupboard door, I'll fix the cupboard and that will calm me down. Then it's nice and therapeutic. But then you're going through the embarrassment of my god, I've lost my fucking mind over hitting my head. What what sort of Sarah: same, yeah. Trevor Holland: How am I a functioning adult? 'Cause I can't even handle that. Yeah. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so an example of that then, my chemist is constantly getting my prescription wrong, so I have quite a large prescription and constantly raging already, constantly getting it wrong. They leave out one of my main painkillers, okay, and they're doing it every single week and... My mum sort out my prescription because I can't ring the chemist because I'm autistic and I don't like using the phone and so my mum does this for me and every Friday they're forgetting it. So I ring my mum and I like doing my prescription every single Friday because I've done it every single Friday evening since I was 18 and it's my routine. Because I'm autistic I don't like changing my routine and so every Friday they've forgotten my prescription and every Friday they forget. And so this Friday gone. It was a forgot again. and I started doing this to my face and then punching the bed for a good like 20 seconds because I was absolutely fucking raging because it was forgotten again and then I rang me mum and me mum went it's fine we'll just sort it out on Monday she just doesn't get it. Like it's a routine, it's a thing that I do and it's constantly forgotten and so it made me enraged even more and it's just like a throwaway thing for everyone else but it's a thing that I do and it's part of my routine and it's Trevor Holland: It's not a throwaway thing though, is it? It's it's No. that seems to tie in with s some of my intolerances as well and it makes me sound like a complete arrogant piece of shit. But I know that I'm smarter than those people around me, that's just the way we are, right? but when people are consistently fucking stupid and that you know, that kind of always making the same mistake over and over again, always getting something wrong, it's like Sarah: No, it's not for me. Yeah. Trevor Holland: Come on. Why can't you just understand this? Why can't you just get this right? How hard is it? And yeah, that that sends me through a loop when when I s when I see people being thick. Sarah: Yeah? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, can't. Stupidity just fucking pisses me off. I can't deal with it. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sarah: But no, like when there's just like things that mess up you and it's out of your control as well and you're just like, my fucking godly. But my boyfriend was like, it's fine, we'll get it taught us and all this. But know when you're just like, my naughty fucking god. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sarah: for ya. Trevor Holland: Especially if you make a special effort to to double double down in in terms of like making sure that everything's in place to so that making that mistake becomes almost impossible. It becomes harder to get it wrong than to get it right. You're laying out everything, other than picking up the fucking drugs off the shelf and putting them in a bag yourself, you are doing everything possible to make sure that they cannot get it wrong. And when they still do, it makes you just despair for the fucking universe, doesn't it? Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. yeah yeah yeah just like dude my god i will literally come and do it myself like i can do it myself Trevor Holland: Ha ha Yeah, exactly. Sarah: Mike, stop fucking at me, Trevor Holland: Jesus. Yeah. But yes, on on that note, Sarah, I just wanted to say thank you so much for for joining me and having a lovely chat about everything that we talked about. It was so much fun and so good to listen to all listen to your stories and find out more about you. so here's a bit where I completely forget how to speak. so I'll do the arbitrary later. Sarah: don't. Thank you very much. Trevor Holland: But yeah, thanks very much Sarah. Speak to you soon. Sarah: you Thank you, you're welcome. Trevor Holland: That was the fantastic Sarah. Hope you enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy this podcast, please do subscribe, leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. Once again, we have audio and video versions of this. So depending on what you're listening to at the moment, if you go onto my YouTube, you'll find the the full video version. Or if you're already on YouTube, if you just go to shoutybrain.com. slash podcast you'll see links to all the various different platforms where the podcast is available in audio form. speaking of shoutybrain.com interestingly enough I've got a red bubble shop that I've opened recently where I've got some of my weird little doodles and stuff on there I'm trying to kind of sing from the rooftops that people with neurodiversity especially Audi HD should be able to wear that As a as a badger of pride. So I've got lots of bits and bobs on Redbubble. So please do check that out if you get the opportunity. Lots of really good deals on there. Try not to pimp myself too much. But once again, if you go to shoutybrain.com, there is a link to the Red Bubble shop in there, as well as as usual, the links to my social media, my my YouTube, my Instagram, my Facebook, and so on. So please do check those out. Please do follow. Because it really, really helps me build a bit of an audience for this podcast. if you want to follow Sarah, which I strongly suggest you do, on Instagram she as she is at from Sarah Lex. So F-R-O-M-S-A-R-A-H-L-E-X. that's gonna be in the show notes or if you're on YouTube, that's gonna be in the description as well. on there you'll see all her really really quite funny and and and sometimes poignant content. as well as links to her other accounts for Teddy the Cockkapoo and for her photography. Really good stuff there. So please do check her out and give her some support as well. That's it for me for this week. I'll be back next week with another special guest and hopefully there'll be no further issues from a technical perspective. But we never know. This is me we're dealing with and it's all a little bit shambolic isn't it let's be honest. But thank you once again for listening. Take care. Enjoy yourselves. See you soon okay.