Latest / ADHDtime On Air / ADHD in the House: The Power of the Pause with Dan and Yulia

Transcript

ADHD in the House: The Power of the Pause with Dan and Yulia · ADHDtime On Air

• Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hi everyone. Thank you for joining me today at ADHDtime on Air. I'll be joined by Yulia and Dan and we're gonna be talking about a bunch of stuff, but including one of them is about taking a pause. And we're gonna talk about helping parents. thank you so much for joining me. Please introduce yourself better than I just did. Yulia: Thanks for having us, Daniella. we are pause people. Dan and I connected a few years ago. we're good friends, we're both coaches in the ADHD space, worked in ac education, with families, and we really care about supporting parents who have ADHD in the house. And we say it that way for a reason, and that's really the core of the message we want to share today is what does it mean? Dan: . Yulia: To have ADHD in the house? And how can parents be the architects of the everyday ordinary moments throughout the day and and Dan: Okay. Yulia: co-create more self, you know, more regulation, more calm, more connection, more collaboration throughout the day to help their kids regulate. Dan: Thanks, Julia. And when we think about life at home, as a father of two teens, two boys, 15 and 17, most of those daily interactions becomes what life is about. And when we're able to see them and architect them a little bit better, we're able to kind of create that calming connection that all kids need, but especially kids with ADHD. And we came together to create PAWS people and we like to begin every session with our cohorts and the parents with whom we work by literally stepping into the PAWS for second. And this morning I would just like to read a quick word from Victor Frankel who says, between stimulus and response, there's a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. And in our response lies our growth and our freedom. And today we're going to explore a little bit about the program we've designed to help parents when they pause, know a little bit more about what to do, how to act, what not to do, to create moments that create more calm, model self-regulation, which is what we want. kids to do and essentially have a higher quality of life because those moments are what make up the vast majority of our time together. Small moments. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, I appreciate that insight a lot. And I I live the I love the thought of ADHD in the house. I think that sometimes we think of us individuals with ADHD or our kids very in isolated and solos instead of part of a a system, which in this case is a family, if you're lucky. and I I really appreciate that that insight. I wanna take one step backwards and ask you guys. How would you define a pause? Yulia: It there's so many facets and it goes deep. Like the more you engage with the pause, the deeper you go. and I'll talk a little bit and I know Dan might have some stuff to share, but for me the pause, it it's a space that we step into. And not to be too weird, right? But to get a little weird, there's a s it's a space outside of time. And once you step into it, you can go inward and bring your attention, your awareness to what's going on inside. because so much of our environment can be triggering. So much of kids' behavior can be triggering. My goodness, like it's no surprise. And the pause is a way to, before we kind of react to the outward situation. To really go inward first and notice, am I regulated? You know, what's going on here? and so part of the pause is literally to do nothing. Dan: you Yulia: and notice. And we know that our so much of our thoughts, our emotions, our behaviors just run on an autopilot program. And that's just how we're wired. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But our default when we're triggered tends to be to react. And that doesn't solve anything, it doesn't make anything better, it makes things worse. And knowing that Dan: . Yulia: that's our default, knowing that. Simply by pausing in those moments before reacting and interrupting the very next thing that's about to happen, there's a space that con a conscious space you can create to choose what to do rather than go back to the impulse. And that's where we can rewire our own minds and nervous systems to start Responding just a little bit more effectively, nudging ourselves and our kids a little bit more toward regulation. Because it happens in the pause. So the pause is a doorway to self-regulation and to self-awareness. Dan: Mm hmm. Yulia: And it's a model. So I'll stop there. I'm gonna pause. Daniella Karidi, PhD: You're gonna pause. Dan: Thank you, Julia. And I would add to that, that was great. I would add to that, in the pause, we're able to check our internal narrative, our explanation as to what's happening and what's important. And in the pause, we're able to examine that closely and realize often the narrative We, parents, are telling ourselves, getting out the door, transitioning to bed, the thing that seems so important right now, in the pause, we're often able to realize, I can pump the brakes on that narrative, and when I do that, I can realize it might not be true. It might be partially true, but it's not the biggest truth that needs to be responded to right now. And also in the pauses where parents can look at the checklist we've created, the visual tools, right? Visual tools that prompt action and respond a little bit differently, not so much based on those narratives, but based on what actually might be happening, what your kid might actually need right now. And that creates... any number of different outcomes, both internally for us as parents, our calm, our nervous system, our heart rate, our ability to connect with our kids in that moment, give them what they need. And even when we mess up the capacity to repair more quickly, make it right and build connection in that way. So the pause is both a physical time, where we might be transitioning from dinner to pause and check in before we move on. And it's also very much an internal space where we can choose to do something different, what we call not the automatic default reaction we're used to doing, but something more helpful. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So when I think about any strategy that I recommend to my clients or I'm interact with people, the first comment that comes to mind is is like if I could have remembered to do this, I won't have ADHD. Yulia: Right. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So tell me a bit about your approach on shifting strategies or doing new things, like including a pause or or any other change that that you or others recommend on in behavior. Yulia: I'll just respond here and and we're both wearing t-shirts that say practice the pause, by the way. I Daniella Karidi, PhD: Very cute. Yulia: am staring at my little note card that that says take it with you. This is something Dan wrote at a conference for me. And I have my little doodle of the pause. This is us stepping into the pause. I have Daniella Karidi, PhD: nice. Yulia: pause the dog behind me, our mascot. And I have our workbook with our little checklist here. So there's in in my environment, Dan: . Yulia: there are lots of visual cues for me to pause and come back to this. Cause there's no way I'm just gonna remember to do this on autopilot. Dan: Yeah, what we know about the brain, one of the things we know is that under stress, under pressure, it's very difficult to remember the things we ought to do. That's why visual reminders are better than verbal reminders. Visual reminders prompt action. Verbal reminders can just tend to annoy our kids after a while and then they shut down. And Julia pointed to a few of the... visuals she uses when my boys were younger. We always begin, even with families with older kids, with, you we might be talking about ADHD, but what we're really talking about is self-regulation, self-control. It gets labeled as executive function skills when kids get bumped up against challenges in school, but at its core, it's self-regulation. And Vanderbilt has a... wonderful visual tool called the turtle technique. We call it Tim the Turtle. And if your viewers would like to Google that, turtle technique, they'll see it. And it's a picture of a turtle with four little frames. Tim gets hit on the head with a ball. In the second frame, he stops. In the third frame, he puts his head in his shell and counts to three. And in the last fourth, he comes out with an idea. And before we get into any of the roadmaps and the tools, by posting this on the refrigerator at home and taking off some of the things many families probably don't look at anymore that are on the refrigerator, this becomes a very simple, fun visual referent that parents can kind of point to and say, and begin to model. in that moment, in the pause, even by doing nothing. Model self-regulation, model doing something other than the default behavior, and it can become a talking point, something to laugh about. You know, could have thorns, buds, roses, and maybe a Tim the Turtle moment, when I was Tim and when I wasn't, and laugh about it together and practice doing it. And you don't even have to do it through words, you can just point to it. and then conversation can flow, awareness can build, and it becomes a cornerstone of the practice. This isn't a one and done kind of thing. There's opportunities to come back and reflect on these moments when we do it well and when we could do a better job. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I think people sometimes don't realize that executive functions and self-regulations are skills that we develop and we can get better at. can you give some examples in everyday life situations where struggles occur and where we have potential to get better at our self-regulation as a parent or as a child? Dan: If it's okay, Julia, I'll go with... Well, this is what we refer to as the predictable recurring challenges. It could be after dinner, before bed, when everyone's maybe a little wound up. It's a predictable recurring challenge. The morning transition out the door. Or when it's homework time and everyone's tired. In those moments, we're able to, if we see them, we see them coming, we're able to architect it a little bit differently. Maybe a snack is required to raise arousal a little bit. Maybe there needs to be some physical movement before we engage or a break halfway through. But in these situations, these predictable recurring challenges are opportunities to practice doing it together. to model it, to inquire in this moment, what could you use more of? What could you use less of? How can I help you right now? And when things maybe begin to escalate, pausing, acknowledging that contributing to the escalation isn't gonna help with the outcome, maybe just saying, you know what, I'm gonna come back in a minute because the way you're talking to me, for instance, doesn't feel good. And I'm going to come back. I'm going to give it a pause. And when we model it and show it and practice it versus getting engaged in the tug of war, which can happen at homework time, the red zone, the amygdala hijack doesn't become the main story, but can be avoided through these strategies. Daniella Karidi, PhD: You wanna add something, Yulia? You you look like you were talk thinking. I saw I saw the thinking. Yulia: No, you're right. No, I'm thinking of, you know, just some some examples of this. There is a a mom who told me, you know, one of the models we introduce is the zones of regulation. Just knowing what zone you're in. There's four zones. It's so simple. They teach it in kindergarten. it's like blue zone, you're low on energy, green zone, you're good, you're focused, you're calm, yellow zone, you're losing a little bit of self-control and you're getting wiggly or silly. And then red zone, you're like, you've lost it. You gotta stop. So that's just a really direct example of a model that's part of the pilots, the checklist we have. And I had one mom tell me, you know, one of she has like young kids under the age of eight. And one of the their boys would like yell, one of the boys that they is very loud, and the brother gets really. angry and is very reactive. And one of the things she told me once was, now when his brother yells, he says, you know, he's in the yellow zone. So it's not like the behavior stopped right away because you know they're applying some of these different skills, but now there's so much more understanding and awareness. And so many parents tell us, you know, I was kind of losing my cool. And my six-year-old said, Mom, you're not being Tim the Turtle right now. Dan: Mm. Yulia: Do the Tim thing, do the turtle thing. So there's generally like so much more awareness, more playfulness. The kids listen to people they like and they live in their emotions, in their in their senses, in their imagination. And so often adults kind of project. Onto kids, adult judgment, adult skills. And so the biggest shift that we get to see is it's this like flipping of that switch. Once you shift away from that old way of thinking, there's so many opportunities throughout the day. Like transitions all throughout the day, the trickiest procedures we have to get through. And so we have parents making them, bedtime schedules really visible and stepping into their authority and not letting their kids negotiate endlessly Dan: you Yulia: like what the limits are. There's so much more safety there. And a lot of the friction points that you experience, these predictable challenges throughout the day, a lot of these are preventable. So you can, with a few tweaks throughout the day. lower the temperature at home and find a new baseline of regulation. Give your kids more access to that thinking brain when they're in that green zone more often. And there could be some really huge shifts. And like you said, it's a developmental process. So really slowing down and playing the long game, knowing that All these little interactions, these moments throughout the day where things used to go sideways, we can pause and calm down before it escalates. Or we can get ahead of it because it's predictable. We can shift the sequence of this little routine to make this thing happen faster or easier. So yeah. Dan: And I thank you, Julia. I want to add quickly, you we have a cast of characters that each tell a story about self-regulation. Parents can realize when they're familiar with the zones that they in fact come in like one of our favorite characters, the Tasmanian devil, too hot too often, which is a triggering factor. which is the defining factor in how the situation unfolds. And when they're able to, you know, one of our favorite sayings is know thyself. When they're able to connect their behavior, their internal state to this visual, they can begin to what we call, for any scuba divers out there, plan the dive and dive the plan a little bit more smoothly. These recurring predictable scenarios aren't going to disappear, but we begin making micro-course corrections sooner, because we see it coming. And when we show up differently, this is the know-thyself piece, our kids not only feel it, but we're also modeling for them exactly what we want them to do. And they're not going to learn this stuff through more talking and a lecture. or a TV show, they're gonna learn it by observing it, seeing it, feeling it, repeating it bit by bit over time, which is our job. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, a hundred percent. I I had a conversation with a mom that her kid wasn't a reader and she looked at me and I have the opposite problems. I have over over readers. so she's like, How did you do that? And I looked at her and I said, Do you do the kids ever see you holding a book? Do you ever read? Are you ever like, do you have bookshelf? Like, I think that we forget sometimes that our behavior really much affects the the kids behavior even if we do it in an unconscious way. and then that whole conversation made me realize that when my kids were about eight, I switched to a Kindle like really really early, when Kindle just came out. Like then I was like maybe they don't know that this is a book behind what I'm holding. They might think I'm playing. So I started saying out loud things like if they interrupted, I said let me mark rum in the book. I would say things like I'm gonna put down the book Even though it was a Kindle, this show they can so I can model so tell me a bit about modeling the paws. Now that I did that long intro. Yulia: Well, I just wanna say, Daniella, what you the example you just gave is you by speaking out like that what you're doing and how you're thinking about it, you're making something that's totally invisible to your kids visible. So that's just the the frame we wanna use here. It's like there's all this invisible stuff happening. Executive functions are a set of mental skills. we're constantly coaching ourselves inside our head, we're constantly Tolerating frustration or something, we're problem solving. And so the more visible we make that, the more kids that's one way to model the executive function that's happening in the pause. And Dan, I don't know if you have more to say on Dan: Thank you. I do. That's our self-talk. That's our metacognition. When we're young, oftentimes our behavior happens first and then we think about it. But as we mature and become young adults and adults, our thoughts begin to govern our actions and our behaviors. And like Julia said, this is all invisible to a little kid. So when we speak our internal thought, internal dialogue, this internal debate about, if I'm gonna leave in 10 minutes, I should probably begin to gather my stuff now. Again, we're modeling for them self-regulation skills and the idea that it just doesn't happen. A smooth transition or a fun meal is a function of some planning, some organization, and by making it visible in a fun, playful way, by the way, we're not saying, listen to me say this, maybe we're just speaking out loud and being playful. Because when we're playful, we're in the green zone. And when we're in the green zone, we can learn and adjust and adapt. And kids will learn by observing, by hearing, and eventually begin to get on board with it and see that it makes sense. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I very much appreciate that. I have listeners that say things like, I heard this they on social media, I heard this on the thing. there's a lot of information going out in the world. if you had a chance to send out into the world some good information about parenting and ADHD, kind of fixing some of the things out there that we would so first share with me something you wish people knew about parenting and ADHD and then if you have something you wish you think people are getting wrong, I'd love to hear that too. Dan: Something I think I'd like to share is we have this medical model which points to the child's brain. I remember when I was getting my master's in special education, my teacher was always so emphatic about, it's not an ADHD kid or a dyslexic learner. It's a student who has dyslexia. It's a kid who has ADHD. But we have this focus on the kid's brain and the chemistry of the kid's brain and fixing the kid's brain. Whereas we try to pivot to the interaction of the brain and the environment, the biopsychosocial model. It's different than the medical model. You know, for instance, kids with ADHD get corrected at school a hundred times more than they get validated. You got to catch Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Dan: them being good frequently and often. And when parents understand that, depending on how I architect the space, the moment, the interaction, I can either exacerbate these challenges with my language, with my tone, with my look on my face, or I can step in and make micro-course adjustments to so many aspects of the interaction, the transition, the homework time, to, as Julia said earlier, nudge the kid in the direction of self-regulation. So I think we really get that wrong. We are trying to actively push back against this medical model because kids internalize the shame. They believe they're broken, that they're bad, people are mad at them. And this becomes, this can become and often does become the headline of the newspaper. And we're trying to actively flip that script, as we say, and look at all the things parents can do, the micro course corrections we can be making in our spaces and moments and interactions to actually make it easier, deal with the challenges when they come up more helpfully and not just have this tug of war, which we get phone calls about when they're 12, 13, 14, 15, and it's kind of become. very red hot issue. Yulia: I wanna I wanna jump in here and and say that one of the core reasons Dan and I decided to partner together because we both have our own separate practices. We're doing a lot, but we wanted to do this together because the phone calls we get over and over and over for many years have been: I have a teenager or young adult, their confidence is on the ground. They're struggling in school or they've dropped out of college. And I'm looking for an executive function coach to help them because I need to take a step back. We're arguing too much. I'm micromanaging them. I don't know how much to help or when to step in. That's it's like the details are different, but the story is identical. And what we realize that parents don't know is how much influence they have in the early years. Before all these predictable challenges, the the the executive function coaching in industry has exploded. And they're just waiting for these kids to hit this wall. And all the research shows, and Danielle, I was excited to come on your podcast because you're the research queen. that the APA, the CDC, all the research points to that the early years that parent behavior training. Is the first line of defense for ADHD in children. When they're younger than six, it's before even medication is considered. Or when they so when they reach 12, you want your kid to get direct skills coaching, but again, it's the parents that are recommended to understand this stuff because they're looking everywhere except for themselves for the solution, and they feel like there's nothing they could do at home. Okay, I got my kid evaluated. I spent thousands of dollars. They're on medication. They have a therapist, which isn't research backed ADHD treatment. you know, and but we're still having all the same issues at home. What else can I do? And they're stuck. And so they think, you know, the coach is gonna be able to facilitate that. So to me, it we call this the legacy window, the age up until age 12, where parents have the biggest influence to practice these types of skills little by little, make these little micro course corrections so that their kids can launch later with support, right? But have a better baseline for their nervous system to be actually regulated. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I appreciate both those insights. I think it's very important both perspective we use when we enter the conversation about ADHD, what model we're looking at it, and in addition, the idea that we have some opportunities for early intervention. I think that the research has shown across a variety of disabilities or variety of of neurodiversity or variety of con human conditions, I should say. That the earlier we intervene, the better. Some of the more most clear studies are are we can find in the hearing impairment world, where we know that if we can catch a kid before they're four, we don't have the the the negative effects of language cognition, if we can catch their. And now we're he seeing that if we can correct our hearing as we age, we can reduce our chances of dementia. So Even though we know that early intervention is so Dan: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: useful, if you're a parent that's listening now and you think, my god, my kid is no longer 12, I passed the window, I will add that early intervention is the best step, but kids not lost, and you're not the worst parent. Listen to this, you can get help at any point. And the studies of hearing aids show that, right? So at any point we can help our kids or in ourselves. So if you hear this and you're like, okay, it's a lost case, please don't don't take that conclusion from this conversation. What you should take away from this conversation is that we can help. And if we start earlier, it's better, but we can help at any stage, both as a parent and as people with ADHD, we can get help. Yulia: Yeah. Beautiful. Thanks, Daniella. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Sorry. I had a ki question I wrote here looking like I I went I heard you guys speaking at the Neurodivergent conference. So I kind of went for the f hold the whole thing and they did a great job, by the way. And you guys, if you're it I'll put the link to the conference if you just so people know about this conference. But going back to the the main topic, I wrote a question. So you talk a lot about the words architects and you talk a lot about parents being able to control their responses and the environment. tell me a bit about that term and the way you use it and the beliefs that behind it. Dan: I would say that that's a great question. Sometimes we swap the words architect and pilot. We use them together. When parents understand that oftentimes the outcome can be written on the wall based on the language you use. How come you did that? Weren't you paying attention? These types of questions, how we enter into the interaction can either move it in the right direction or move a child into the yellow zone, even the red zone, faster than we can imagine. And this has to do with the predictable recurring challenges. When we understand that curiosity is a much better entryway than an accusation. Wondering is a better way to approach a kid than the narrative in my head that I think explains what happened and questioning a child based on that narrative when that narrative could have nothing to do with what happened. These are all micro-course corrections, whether it's based on the zones of self-regulation or the biopsychosocial model or even Being an authoritative parenting, it all lands in being an authoritative parent with love limits boundaries, high expectations. When these steps of the checklist are the guiding principles for what we say, how we enter, we're all in the energy business at the end of the day. It doesn't matter how we make our living when we come home, we're in the energy business. And when we can architect moment spaces and interactions based on these models versus our gut or the thing I heard on Instagram of which there could be hundreds this week, that's kind of like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. Whereas when you architect it, you can come back to these models, which is in our system, our pause people system. You're not going to get it right all the time, but you're going to begin to get it right more often. And kids begin to feel it. They begin to feel the difference a lot because they realize their parents are, have a coach and their parents are trying to learn something different to be more helpful. So these are all small ways we can architect moments in our homes that nudge our kid in the direction of self-regulation and our family towards co-regulation. Yulia: I I just want to add to that if if you zoom out and you look at how sensitive self-regulation ADHD is to the environment. Example of this is my kid goes to camp, they're not allowed to touch their phone, there's all these rules, there's a very strict bedtime, there's quick consequences. They had the best time on the planet. They were engaged. They were hiking. They were reading. They went to bed. They got, all this stuff. The environment was so well regulated. It was predictable. They knew exactly what the expectations were. And yet when they're home, my God, it's like pure chaos. So the environment carries the cognitive load oftentimes of our regulation, the visual stuff in the environment, the sequencing of the transitions and all that. It carries so much of the load, and ADHD sp especially is so sensitive to environments that are chaotic, right? So if you know as a parent that you're the architect of the environment at home, then when something is going sideways, rather than looking at your kid and getting frustrated with them and blaming them for this thing they are doing wrong, you Look at yourself instead and say, I architected that. I I realized there's a couple different things I could do differently next time. We could plan it a little differently next time so that we avoid this thing. And so this is a really empowering message. because very often parents feel lost, they're not sure what to do, and they're they're still seeing the issue as something being inside the kid versus in between us in the space of the interaction, in the space of our home. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I love that perspective. I think that that I think that I once realized that we were really struggling in the morning. so I I put some old phones around the house and we were filming our morning routine for a few days in the room in trying to figure out where the most hiccups are. one of the things we realized is that that the minute we get from upstairs to downstairs, there's this intensity that happens. and that has something has to sh change in maybe there's things that have to be brought physically downstairs. So there maybe there's things that have to be brought upstairs. So we do them before the intensity. and also we realize that we consistently forget to feed the dog. We walk out the dog the door, get to the car and someone says, Shit, we didn't feed up the dog. Let's go back in and feed the dog. And and I wanna say that we filmed for three days and consistently we'd forgot to feed the dog. And we had to go back in. So we put up some reminders and systems. I think that as parents, we have more control on some of these environments than we are letting ourselves be aware of and also we we we giving an opportunity Dan: But. Daniella Karidi, PhD: to control, to like bring it up to surface. So I really appreciate this conversation about you know being the architect of the space and and and the behaviors and the the environment. because I can tell you that it does make a difference. Now, did it, as you were saying before, does it solve everything? No. did we magically not forget to feed the dog? No. There were times we still forgot. But did we increase the chances of us having a smoother transition or having a less forgetting to feed the dog? We moved his bowl by the door. We did all these strategies to make Dan: and Daniella Karidi, PhD: it easier. physical space strategies, planning strategies. but also as a result of this whole exercise, we did also find out a few things that that are not so conscious, we brought them to be to be visual. Yulia: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: and that is about like some of the communication strategies and about some of the space issues and things like that. So I think that understanding that parenting is more than just the interaction between you and the child, but also all these around us is a really good strategy and I really appreciate that you bring that to the conversation. Yulia: Yeah. I want to say one more thing that your story really lands in my heart because you, Daniella, you have a PhD in this stuff, right? And yet, and I know you personally, I remember when you did this, and I was so impressed Dan: Thank Yulia: that you would go to that degree, right, to really learn and understand what was going on. And that I mean, just modeling that level of problem solving, but just to tell parents out there, like, this is so messy. And that's okay. And there's like no way to always be in the pause, but it's just a matter of returning to it as often as you can remember, and not believing that there's something broken or wrong with you because there's all this chaos or things are messy. That we're human and we also have to acknowledge the broader environmental context that all of us are in. The chaos in the world, the bombardment of stimuli from our electronic devices. When I was growing up, there were so many more opportunities for me to naturally practice self-regulation, to tolerate waiting, or I used to run home from the bus and I'd catch the last three minutes of The Simpsons and be so upset because I didn't make it home on time to catch the episode. Now I had to wait a whole week. And that could happen the Three weeks in a row. You know, so kids nowadays their environment shifted so much that a lo the so many more people are struggling with self-regulation, whether you're diagnosed or not. And so just like just keep putting it into this context. You don't have to change everything. Like there's these little tiny changes you can make and you could change how you respond. That changes the Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Yulia: trajectory of how things go. Tiny bit by tiny bit and celebrate like the hell out of every tiny pause. Like, my God, we paused and ritualize it and make it silly and fun. because you're also, you know, the biggest thing we are concerned with is the quality of life. Like if you just zoom out, like you only have so many years. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I I wanna tell you that that during the Olympics, I I loved how every time at the end of a gymnastic routine, they automatically celebrate, right? At the end of the of going Yulia: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: down the hill, they're like they're not waiting to get their square Yulia: Ha Daniella Karidi, PhD: to celebrate. They're just like, we survived this, we did this, we're great. It became a thing. I put the dishwasher, the things in the the dishes in the dishwasher and I'd go, yeah. like Yulia: Ha ha ha. Daniella Karidi, PhD: hey, if they can Dan: Hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: do that after doing a gymnastics routine, I can do that after I load the dishwasher. Yulia: Right, right. Dan: And there are so many moments in the day those little high fives and acknowledgments add up. You know, those are like paying it forward, catching them being good, releases a whole different set of chemicals than they're probably battling all day at school when they're being corrected and they're masking and they're not sure what's going on and they're just trying to hang in there. When they come home, what they need is a place to feel safe, supported, heard, calm, a place to unwind before getting into the homework. Don't say, was school right away when they get in the car? Just give them a snack. That's our other tagline. Pause people. Please stop talking. Yulia: Yeah. Dan: sometimes just don't say anything, which is hard for everyone. But in that space can... Daniella Karidi, PhD: I I think Dan: can creep in. Daniella Karidi, PhD: about me meeting your kid where it needs the pause because my kids, for instance, we'd have they'd come into the car and they'd always not always, but a lot when they were younger, it would be like the breaking moment. They would cry about something silly or caught get into a fight with us on purpose and I would love it. I would say it means they feel safe here in my car. It means that they feel comfortable to fall apart. It means that they this is their yeah, getting over a fight because your sister sat two inches too close to you. That's okay. It means that you held it in all day, you know, and and we would literally say that out loud. I would literally say like great job choosing a stupid topic to fight over. I love it. Yulia: Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: let's keep on doing that. And and And I think that as parents we have to give that space for our k for the our kid to behave in a way that and for the paws to work for them. If I had a quiet car, that would have been the worst for my kids. My kids would have died from that. But but on the other hand, knowing that your kid is a kid that the paws could be a little fight with their sibling actually, or their paws could be crying, or their paws could be choosing the music in the car. giving them the space to figure that out with you and also to be the what the pause that they need. And I think that we I I hear you guys a lot saying of different variations of pause, but I don't know if my audience knows that the pause doesn't necessarily need to be the same in this every situation in every person. Yulia: Yeah. And it could be different lengths of time. It could be strategic you know, before or after certain things. Like Dan and I paused before every single meeting. And for example, like this morning I came to the meeting like so dysregulated, anxious. I just needed like fifteen whole minutes to cry and talk and be quiet. And I just said, This is what I need. And we did that and I knew that that was gonna help me regulate. and so yeah, pausing looks different all the time. I mean there's this book I found that we're reading and it's a whole book about all the different ways to pause, short pauses on Daniella Karidi, PhD: To people that are to people that are not watching but only listening, she's holding a book that says, Do pause, you are not to do list and I will put a link to it because I know you guys are gonna ask. Yulia: Yeah, you're a book you're a book gal. So this book, he talks about planning Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes. Yes, I'm a bookout. Yulia: he talks about intentional planning of a pause like a weekend retreat where all you do is read and or a 30 second pause or a walk that you take a couple times a day, a quiet walk. There's so many different ways to include it in your life. And you could be really Dan: Okay. Yulia: creative about it. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I d I love that idea and it makes me think that I we do Sunday family meetings when the kids were smaller and you know we could it would be about discussing the menu and what was going on in our life and if you didn't attend you didn't get any choice of the food and there was one week that people were not cooperated and they got fish for a whole week because I got to choose. So It's a we we try to bring in topics and I love the idea of asking people if they could choose a pause, what would they choose to their life? What would they add to their current busy weeks? I think that's a great conversation question and I love it. I'm gonna take that. so I'm gonna throw it back out you. if you could add a pause to your current life, what would you add? Dan: That's a great question. For me, I think since Yuli and I have kind of created this space to think and act and do differently than what we normally do. I think there are so many opportunities. For instance, we often think of a pause as like stopping, stopping something. But a pause is really maybe not so much stopping as an invitation to do it differently. So maybe the pause I would want more of is the mindfulness to realize how often the pause is there. And at first parents say, I missed it. I missed the pause. I missed it. And we always say, don't worry, it'll be back. You'll have another chance really soon. So maybe a wish to see how many opportunities there are. We have a very action go-go gadget kind of culture where doing is where it's at. Action is where it's at. versus stepping into the pause and maybe finding something new. From the pause, you can see things differently that are all around you that maybe you don't make time to examine. And from there, maybe there's opportunities to grow and learn differently than the ways where we've grown accustomed to doing it. That's a tricky question, Danielle. That was a good one. Yulia: Yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking of just the the ways I've built in pauses and how many like more opportunities there are. One thing I like to I'd like to do a little more of is really pause before stepping into a room or an interaction and just take a few moments to like honor the person and set an intention like how do I want to show up? And It there's certain cultures in the world that they acknowledge the sacredness of everything, like everything is sacred, and to just bring a little more sacredness. Because I often think about like, what the heck is all this anyway? Why are we here? like my brain is seeking to figure out like what the heck Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. Yulia: is going on, and we're so in our lives that it's hard to pause and step back and be part of the a miraculous natural world and acknowledge that life is finite and we get to really influence so many things with the way that we choose to show up. so I want to do more of that. Dan: May I add, Julia, that was beautiful. are, you know, it's a miracle we're here. And we were talking earlier, Julia, earlier this morning, how if we could just all be a little bit more mindful that we co-create with the people in the moment, in the room, all of these opportunities. And when we see ourselves as co-creators of the outcomes we want, the things we want more of at home with our kids and our partners and our families. When we see it that way, I think we're able to enter the dialogue, the negotiation, the conversation, the moment very differently than just going with the narrative that's in our head in the moment that we are thrusting upon the situation, seeing ourselves as this co-creator. is a beautiful way to use the pause, think. It's very practical. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I like I think that the idea of for me in the past when I would think automatically about pause, I would think about the impulsivity of interrupting other people's conversations. I know I'm very famous of that. that is a skill that I think I have. I have this amazing skill of interrupting. but I I've been working many years in that when I learned how to do interviews and about taking the pause before asking my question and finishing the processing of the line listening. So I would like to add to my life more of doing that in my everyday life, not only in my work hat. It is somehow easier when I am in front of the screen and in or with my colleagues to use that tool. So I wish I can take that tool that I know I have and implement that pause and into Other parts of my everyday life. Another question I like to ask people that come on this podcast is: now that you have an expertise in a little bit more knowledge in the ADHD world or in the executive function world, what would you go back and tell young self? Yulia: Oof I was just thinking of how personal this is. I wanna cry right now because It's just been so hard to navigate. Even now as an adult with all these tools and support. And my relationship with myself and my family is totally transformed as a result of the pause. So I'm not sure what I would tell my little kid, but I would just give her a big hug. Dan: Thank Yulia: Just say like it's not you. You're okay. Dan: Maybe I would just add briefly that. This term ADHD or ADD, it's not helpful. It focuses our attention on one facet of this issue, which is attention. Equally as if not more important are the procedures these kids are lost in. The invisible sequence, the working memory, the processing speed. They're lost in these procedures. They need people to teach them how to do it. They need models and mental roadmaps. You should... Be more independent now is a terrible thing to say to a little kid. So there's the attentional piece, there's the procedures, and there's the emotional self-regulation. And they're all happening all the time, all at once. And when we focus on attention, that one small piece of it, which is really fragile, and we can miss what's right in front of us, because that's the way the brain is. It's confusing and it's really, I think, unhelpful. That's why we focus on self-regulation versus ADHD, because self-regulation is something everyone suffers with weaknesses in self-regulation and moment spaces and interactions. And it depersonalizes it, it destigmatizes it. And when parents can say to a child, this is something I'm also working on, which is what we want to happen in the pause. It's why we did this. We're in this together. It's in the house. It's not you. It's how we interact. It's how we set you up for success. So I think that's a much different way of looking at it. That's more integrative, makes it more accessible, makes it more practical, more opportunities to celebrate and laugh. and just keep trying. When things go sideways, which they will, then that's when we repair and we model repair, which builds connection and trust, which is what kids need. Daniella Karidi, PhD: For sure. Okay, follow-up question. What would you want to tell future self? Yulia: Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hm. Dan: I would want to tell future self that look what's happened in all of these, in the lives of these kids and families because the adults in the room realized when they step into the pause, they can show up differently. And I would tell myself, Good for you for thinking about it this way, for flipping the script, for taking the focus off of the kid who has a hard time all day at school, who needs a place to come home and feel safe. And by doing that, you've created a lot of new patterns in the lives of these families and ripple effects that just feel a lot better for everybody. Yulia: A tough question, Daniella. Dan: Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hey. Dan: That's like the fourth hard question. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Ha ha ha Yulia: It's funny because it it's this is the struggle, right? It's like being able to actually step into your future self. That's Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Yulia: what we're like talking about. We're talking about regulating, right? yeah. I don't know, like thank you. Thanks for not giving up on me. Thanks for sticking with it when it was hard. And For taking the big risk. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I like that. before we finish, tell people where they can find you. and any other things you wanna closing words as we like to say. Yulia: So just real quick, logistics-wise, we have a a website we share called pausepeoplecoaching.com. And we wanted it to be a resource. so you can download a free poster, it's like an instant download, and put it up on your fridge. And it's a nice reminder to pause and go inward. We also have our own websites. I'll let Dan talk about his, but I am at mindfuleducation.com and I love working with young adults and adults. I love working with families. Dan and I work together with families who are in that legacy window. We bring our combined expertise, and we have a really cool program up on the website right now for the fall. that we'd love for families to check out. if this resonates with you and if you're ready to jump in and do this, let's go have fun. and Dan, I don't know if you wanna add to that. Dan: Thanks. My website is either my name danlebowitz.com or Innovative Learning Services. They go to the same place. 31 years ago, I was in my first public school teaching job. I've been in education ever since, so I bring to this a lot. teaching and learning related knowledge and information regarding learning disabilities and challenges and working with schools, working with teachers and I work directly with kids of all ages, elementary school, K-6 teaching certificate through high school, adult clients. And a lot of this work is really for parents. I think we can't emphasize enough how much of the progress families seek begins with the parents. So if they're interested and they're curious, it's super therapeutic. It's not therapy. It's not clinical. It's not clinical. It's lighthearted. It's introspective. It's fun. And people begin to feel the difference very quickly. So we would welcome any curious parents out there who might like to reach out. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Well, thank you both so much for coming and talking with me, and taking a pause from whatever you are doing and and to take it to talk about the pause. I really appreciate it. And I will put in the show notes any relevant links and thank you everyone for listening. Yulia: Thank you, Daniella. Dan: Thank you, Daniella.