Latest / Inside the Apothecary / #Ep05 - Fertility Preparation - Why Doing Everything Right Still Isn’t Working
Transcript
- Jaime: Okay, so if you're using the app Flow and you're just inputting the dates of when you have your period and then next menstrual cycle and just assuming, well, Flow says I'm ovulating on day 12, that doesn't mean that's when you're going to ovulate. Right? So this is where we need to know more information and not just assume anything because everybody's different. And I'm sure, you know, you and Mel, you know, and I, Mel, we've seen everything in anything when it comes to any kind of combination that a woman could quite possibly have. And MG Herbs: Thank you so much for being here with us today. If something in this episode resonated, just know there's always a way to explore it further and support your body the way it needs. You can find out more by going to the website nourishingapothecary.com or reach out if you're ready for more personalized care. Until next time, take care of yourself and keep listening to your body. Hello everyone. Welcome to episode five of Inside the Apothecary. Hi Jamie. Nice to see you. Today we are gonna, yeah, we're gonna hit a massive topic. We're gonna just touch the top of the iceberg of fertility foundations. We're gonna look at assessing the basics, roadblocks that our patients often hit, what is impacting their fertility. So they can definitely go check out the website nourishingapothecary.com and we have done the leg work for them. But what are some of the other things that are really affecting or impacting our fertility? We have other health stuff, you know, it's not just like this reproductive system is sitting alone and it's unaffected. We've got our metabolic health, for instance. This is something that I really commonly see with my men actually. I don't want to see high sugars and stuff with my women either, but high cholesterol, you know, Hey beautiful, I am so glad that you're here. Welcome to Inside the Apothecary, a space for real conversations about hormones, fertility and the body. This is where we learn to understand the body, not fight it. Jaime: Hello. How are going? You too. Ready for episode five. Yeah. Mmm. MG Herbs: and of course what we can do about it. high glucose, I'm always testing HbA1c, I wanna see what that usage is like. And that will impact fertility if those things are out of whack, if those things are high, it indicates there's inflammation in the metabolic system. Jaime: Just because you've had this for years and years and it's common for you doesn't mean it's normal. And also it doesn't mean we can't help with you either. Right? No, absolutely not. All right. So let's talk about some of the, what about some of the other roadblocks? What do you think there's a stopping women from conceiving? MG Herbs: because your body isn't broken, ⁓ it's communicating. take a breath, get comfortable and let's tune back into you. Jaime: Yeah, absolutely. It's such a big topic, but super important. MG Herbs: This is a big one. This is what we do every day. This is our bread and butter. This is what we have spent our whole careers learning and building up to. And this is what we support our patients with every single day in clinic. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Doesn't mean you have to put up with it. Jaime: Yeah. Yeah. And with men as well, like it's also their hormones. So it's also like what's going on with their testosterone. What's going on with like other markers with men as well. Like it's, yeah, it's not just the women hormones that we look at. So we do look at men as well. I think as well, thyroid is a big one. MG Herbs: Hmm. Well, I... Like of course there's the timing. Yes, if you don't know when you're ovulating that does make it quite difficult to conceive. Our ovulatory window is much shorter than I think a lot of women imagine and it can be shortened by other factors. So if you have a really short cycle you may not ovulate for very long. If you have a really long cycle then when you ovulate becomes even harder to pinpoint. That's if you're ovulating. You know like we said just because you're having a bleed, just because you might have a Mm-hmm. Jaime: Absolutely. And we love the beautiful results that we can get with our clients. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Yeah. We really have to start a baby wall in the clinic with a little baby photos. So yes, love it. So if we start from the start, when we see a patient in clinic, we want to assess the basics. We want to go through some of the really stock standard simple stuff that tells us quite a lot about their fertility. Jaime: Absolutely. think so. I know. I just like my Instagram feed for that. MG Herbs: ⁓ yay. Yeah. Definitely. So our women in particular and thyroid, if that thyroid is sluggish, if it's, you know, running in circles, if it's overactive, if it's under active, it's a biggie in the fertility kind of realm. This is something that like, it's not weird and wonderful that naturopaths are looking at the thyroid. This is something our doctors are really keeping an eye on too. The thyroid is important for not just conception, but for your pregnancy outcomes as well. So we're keeping an eye on the thyroid for sure. Jaime: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. MG Herbs: regularly doesn't necessarily mean you are ovulating. The other roadblocks that we have is the sperm, right? So yes, we talk egg, we talk ovulation, but it takes two to make this happen. It's a 50-50. So if the sperm aren't there, I always say to my patients, like when you ovulate, the egg, the oocyte is released and then she waits and she sits and she's, you know, kind of... Jaime: Yes. MG Herbs: And that's for both our men and our women, but let's start with our women first. What are we assessing? Jaime: I was just thinking that. So what we want to know is about your periods, right? So we want to go right back to the beginning. So what have your periods historically been like? So even when you first started getting your period, and then we want to know what they're like, even in the last, 12 months, right? Or has it been this way and something's changed? That's another thing that we're looking for as well. But then when it comes to the period, Yeah. And it's definitely an area that like, I think a lot of people don't realize that naturopaths can really help you with. I think another big one is autoimmune conditions. I'm always kind of looking, keeping a little sneaky eye out for it. And I almost would say with autoimmune stuff, the other thing I'm also looking at is like really intense, like allergic reactions, right? So if you get a lot of hay fever, like a lot of histamine stuff all the time, because for me, Absolutely. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Jaime: So I like to think about her as being like a cruise ship, right? Except we don't know the timetable, but like when she's ready to go, she goes. She's not waiting for anybody. So you've got to have the spermies little bags packed and ready to go. Waiting, ready, right? So we want to know about the length of your menstrual cycle. And that is just not the amount of days that you bleed, but the actual length of your menstrual cycle, which we've spoken about before in previous episodes. So we want to know about your period. So the bleeding itself. So we want to know how many days you bleed, how heavy is the bleed? What is the blood like? Do you go straight into bleeding or do you spot into bleeding? We want to know about the pain, how you feel and other digestive symptoms, emotional symptoms, sleep, headaches. We want to know about all of this stuff. MG Herbs: ⁓ a cruise ship. Mm-hmm. Yes, totally. Waiting there. Yes, I love that. I use the bachelorette. You know how like she wants them there ready and she will choose and she will give them the rose. So if they're not there lined up, she's like, I'm out of here. So. Jaime: What I'm looking at is if your body is fighting any fires, right? If your body is fighting any fires, whether it's psychological or whether it's physical and it's sensing, like I am feeling like I'm allergic to everything right now. It's like your body is pouring a lot of energy into that. So it's not going to be like, ⁓ yeah, no, sorry. I'll stop that right now. I'll go make a baby. So that's where we want to like. Hmm. Yeah, I just think of all the funny videos of the cruise ship with the people running after it going, ⁓ wait, I said I'd be here, I'm sorry. MG Herbs: I did it, I've paid for my ticket. Yeah, so basically, like, you know, she says she's waiting, if she has to wait too long, she's gonna go but she will start to degrade immediately. So the quality of that egg is not going to be as good if we don't have the sperm lined up and waiting and we want to line them up and we want to back them up. So generally, our stats are that spermies take about two days to get there. So we do need to start trying to conceive before our ovulatory window, prior, prior, prior. Jaime: Because we're gathering information as we do this with you. We're gathering information and thinking about and noticing patterns that might be indicating something that might be not quite so normal. So there's a lot. have a look and see, okay, is there anything that your body is really sensing like this is my number one priority right now, because that's what we want to focus on. And just it's all about bringing that body back to balance. MG Herbs: Yeah, so it's an assessment of their, like the woman's number one kind of ability for us to kind of know where her fertility is at is us looking at this cycle, right? Of course we look at it holistically, we look at other factors, know, chronic health disease, other symptoms, but what if they're not having a period? Jaime: Mm-hmm. Yes. MG Herbs: Yeah, happy, happy little home for little Bubba to grow for sure. Jaime: Mm-hmm. Mm. MG Herbs: The other thing with the autoimmune stuff, like I put my endo girls in that category nearly all the time, because if your immune system is super stimulated and it's overreacting to everything, and that can be hay fever and allergies and stuff, or it can be like that endo picture, we know there's almost always high histamine stuff going on, mast cell stuff going on. So we want to just settle it all down as much as we can so that the body doesn't then think that our embryo is an issue as well. Jaime: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. MG Herbs: Don't go, hey, I'm ovulating, let's do it. It's probably... Jaime: Mmm. Mm-hmm. I was having this conversation with my client yesterday, right? And so she has gone down the path of she's doing some ovulation induction. And so because of that, they are assessing like every single day, right? To see what she's ovulated. And so she's worked out the last couple of months, she was ovulating between days 14 and 17. Now, if she started, if she ovulated on day 14, and she only started trying the day before, what if it took her husband's spermies two days, she's missed it. So we want to have a think about like, why aren't you having a period? And there's a lot of reasons for that, right? So the whole PCOS picture is one, right? And so that is definitely important, but we also see it in women that are over-exercising, under-eating, under significant stress, or they've been through a significant stressful or traumatic phase in their life. So we want to look at the bigger picture and like zoom out. MG Herbs: Yeah. Jaime: Hmm. Yeah, no, I definitely think that's a really important point. And that's kind of, think with endo apart, people don't think about when it comes to fertility, they're thinking about, because there's like bits of endo everywhere. And yes, okay. But we're looking at it from a broader picture about what's going on and the way, yeah, like Mel said, the way that your body is going to perceive that egg, the way that it's MG Herbs: Thank ⁓ Two days is best case scenario. Two days is full of banging awesome sperm who have these long tails, they can swim, they know where they're going, they're like boom. Most of our sperm is probably taking longer. Jaime: Right? Yeah. and try and see what might be the reason or like, you know, has this happened to you before? And maybe this is your tendency to potentially have, you know, faces of your life where you won't get a period and what might be driving that as well. MG Herbs: . Jaime: Yeah. So can I tell you a little tip that I like to give my clients? Cause I think this is really cool. And look, we're all little, this is a bit of a TMI discussion, but this is what we're all about here. And this is what we do all day every day. So we need to get ahead of the game here. Right? So what I say to my clients is after you have your period, you'll have a phase of a few dry days vaginally. Right? So what I say to everybody is after your period of a morning, and I get, is the, this is the TMI, but it's just between us. It's all good. the little home for your little embryo in your uterus, we think about the beautiful uterus home and that lovely little environment and we want to get her as like lovely and nestled and happy as possible. There's a lot of things to take into consideration. So okay, then what are the things that we can do to improve fertility? MG Herbs: Yeah, for sure. I think that we will be very much looking forward to doing an entire episode on PCOS, on endometriosis, probably multiple on those things. But let's assume for now we're getting a fairly regular bleed. Does that mean we are ovulating? Because we're looking at these different phases in the cycle, right? We are looking at Hehehehehe Mm-hmm. so much, so much. So I think we address those factors that present in the individual human in front of us, whether it's a man, whether it's the woman, whether it's both of them come to see us as a couple, we're going to look into all of these different things. And this is why naturopaths have a model of holistic care. We're looking at that whole human, we're looking at all of these systems interacting together. Jaime: So much. Mm-hmm. MG Herbs: Hit us, hit us. Jaime: What I say to everybody is of a morning before you go to the toilet, just feel a little bit on the inside of yourself, just on the side. And you'll notice it'll be like dry, dry, dry, dry, slippery. And the second you feel it goes slippery, that's the beginning of your go time. Right? So then you're looking and matching up where you are at in your cycle as well. Mm-hmm. MG Herbs: each particular phase, the length of it, and then the bleed is kind of, you know, the beginning again, essentially. And then we start all over again. Ovulation is a part of this and it's something that's really important for conception. Does a bleed mean that we are ovulating? Jaime: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. No, not necessarily. And also, when are you ovulating? When? Yes. MG Herbs: We nearly always will make sure, well, we will always try and make sure that our patients are on a natal vitamin, right? For sure. We need our natal vitamins, we need our folate, we have ones that we love that are on our website that we approve of, they're us approved. But our natal vitamin tops up all our bases, it does not affect our fertility so much in a positive way. We need really specific fertility factors. it's the river that the fish need to swim in. So we're looking for the river. This fish can't swim in a barren creek. So yes, I think it's great tip. Jaime: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Totally. Right. So this is where we want to get ahead of the game here. Right. Cause like we said, we want to have the little sperm is with his bags packed, ready to go. And sometimes it's honestly just as simple as the fuck that you guys have just been missing each other ships passing in the wind or whatever that's saying is. So this is where these little bits can actually make a really big difference. I think so. Like it's not going to help you get pregnant is what we're saying specifically, right? Like it's important. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yes. It's nice to be in tune with your body too, because we use our bleed. If you got high blood pressure, natal vitamin is not going to help. If you got high cholesterol, a natal vitamin is If you're stressed out of your brain, you know what, maybe some B vitamins might give your nervous system a little bit of something, but we need to get the stress down. If you have irregular periods, the natal vitamins are not going to do that. So yes, we take our natal vitamins. We need to do that. We have the ones that we prefer. We like the most bioavailable forms of those nutrients, but we want to make sure that we are then addressing the two foundational things that make a baby. we're so focused on the bleed first and foremost and then when we start trying to conceive we're focused on ovulation but there's all these bits in between there's all the gray so it's nice to be in touch with yourself what if that slipperiness doesn't come the whole cycle we go okay that's a really good indication that is a really good assessment you know that's a sign that we can use that there might be a roadblock there that we can tailor medicine to that we can tailor treatment for Jaime: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Hmm. MG Herbs: It's the egg and the sperm. We want to make sure that they are as awesome as we can possibly get them. And that is both for natural conception and for IVF. Because if you guys need to go down the IVF route, for most, 95 % of my patients are going to be using their egg and their sperm. So. Jaime: Yeah, absolutely. No, I completely agree. Um, and look, I know sometimes when you guys hear this stuff, it seems overwhelming and you're like, Oh, go, I've got to think about this. I've got to think about this. But I flip it and go, look at all this new information we now have about factors to take into consideration. Because in my mind, I would rather you be thinking about all of this information rather than going, Oh, it's unexplained infertility. Right? So this is how I look at it. Don't be overwhelmed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And then also, I think with this as well, a factor that comes into play is your age. Right? Yeah. So the, is where working with a fertility naturopath is so beneficial, right? Because it's specifically for you. So when we have a couple that have been trying to conceive and they're 28, 29, verse a couple that are 38, 39, the way that we look at the egg and the sperm often is quite different. MG Herbs: Absolutely. Jaime: Just kind of go, this is the information you are taking on board as things we can do to be helping to improve your fertility. And more and more we know, the better we can get at getting you the most accurate results to get you this beautiful fertility baby that we're working towards. Right? MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah. Cause we want, we want the sperm and the egg to be as fresh as they both can possibly be when they meet. We want them to then go out for dinner. We want them to like get to know each other and we want them to go home together. They need to go home, like have a nice clean bed for their first night together. It's really important. This is part of implantation. So, you know. Jaime: Right. And then also if we have a couple that's 40, 45, right. So again, very different and a very different approach because we understand a lot about the mitochondria of the, of each of the egg and the sperm. And that's how we produce the energy. So the energy component of the egg and the sperm is so important. And we need to take into consideration like the health of you, the age of you. Mm. Mm. Mmm. I agree. Yes. Now let's talk about, Mel, I want to talk about the factors that are going to impact fertility. MG Herbs: Yes, so many, so, many. Where to begin? Well, if we kind of, if we keep talking about sperm, because you know that makes me happy, ⁓ that's a major impacting factor here. We are nearly always talking about our women. So let's do spermies first. If sperm aren't vital, conception is going to be less and less likely. Jaime: so many. Yeah. in terms of what recommendations we make as well. Mm. Mm-hmm. MG Herbs: It's the spark for life. Jaime: Hmm. Isn't it ever. ⁓ So that, that takes a lot of energy. Takes a lot of energy. Yeah. MG Herbs: Yeah, for sure. it does, it does. Making a baby is a miracle, honestly. Like it's the more I learn about it, the more I get into it, I think, how does this even happen? It blows my mind. The things that have to line up, you know, the stuff that has to be optimal, like to create this healthy little baby, it is so amazing. So there's... Jaime: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MG Herbs: implantation failure will be higher and the chances of early miscarriage will be higher as well. The sperm carry all that beautiful DNA so the factors impacting sperm are wide ranging. Jaime: Hmm. MG Herbs: But generally easy to fix and we see really good results when these things are kind of addressed. So we're looking at environmental exposure with sperm. They don't like heavy metals. They don't love being in like an environment where there's chemicals and know, like mining and shop fitting, like, you know, mechanic kind of stuff. Like we need to look at these factors. there's certain nutrients and you know, ⁓ Jaime: honestly, I actually don't know why we're here to be honest, because I, I, no, no, I was thinking a while ago about ovulation. And I'm like, if ovulation is the big show, it is the it is how we reproduce and yet, women for so long, we didn't know when it happened. We have no idea. MG Herbs: Whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not that type of podcast. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jaime: Yeah MG Herbs: Yeah. Jaime: We don't get a message to us, ⁓ my god, you're about to ovulate. Often women have no sign, there's no symptoms. Often there's nothing. And yet we just magically, it's supposed to happen. And I just think, what a flaw in biology that this is the big show. And it just goes under the radar. MG Herbs: Toxins that if they're too high even good stuff if they're too high sperm will be affected so a lot of my men will supplement zinc because zinc is well known to be something that is taken from the body every time that they ejaculate pretty heavily and also important for fertility, but if things too high that damages sperm If aluminium is too high that will damage sperm. I've had welders I've had people working in aluminium smelters, you know if lead's too high that's gonna cause you Yeah, like text message. Jaime: Yes. MG Herbs: Yeah. ⁓ you want to, we should do, you know, a whole podcast episode on the floor in biology of women's anatomy. That would be amazing. I think that that's a whole nother thing, but as we kind of wrap up this and, you know, try and put that all into like, that is a lot of information for people. One of our most important things to remember is that fertility is rarely, rarely, rarely about one test. Jaime: Mmm. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. MG Herbs: issues as well. they're pretty, they're pretty, like I wouldn't say they're fragile, but I want to say they're like, what's that word I'm looking for? They're affected easily by these factors. They don't like to be touched by these toxins. So environmental for sure comes into play with sperm. Jaime: Mm. I know. Yeah. MG Herbs: It is rarely about one supplement. And I think it's a reflection of our overall health and vitality. And that's why as naturopaths, we love it. I love working with this. I want people to be the healthiest and most vital. And that's when we are most likely to create this life, this little life, you know, between us. So we're preparing for conception. We are setting those foundations. We're trying to give three months at a minimum. Jaime: Mm. Can I just say if we're going to talk about environmental, that leads me onto nicotine and vaping. MG Herbs: Yes. Well, it's exposure. Yeah, definitely. Jaime: Yeah, that's why I'm like, if we're going to talk about that, we need to talk about this. They, really think this kind of follows on with each other. And I just, I know so many people are vaping these days and I feel like we've gone backwards and everyone's forgotten that nicotine is really harmful and does have a negative impact in terms of fertility. So vaping, smoking, we love it. If you can have stopped three months before trying to conceive really. MG Herbs: We're looking at regular cycles. Is ovulation occurring? Are we healthy in all other ways? Can we quit vaping, please? We need a bit of a plan there. But we're also kind of trying to optimize everything at the same time. So we want to treat the thyroid if there's any issues. We want to treat the high blood pressure, but we want to optimize those systems at the same time. And that's what's the beauty of herbal medicine is that it does both at the same time. Yeah. Jaime: Yes, please. Right? So if you're thinking of starting to conceive soon, stop. Start, start writing it in now, as soon as you can. MG Herbs: Because the beautiful thing is it does only take us 90 days to generally like it can take only 90 days for some of these parameters to just get so much better. ⁓ But yeah, we need to remove the environmental exposures, including. Jaime: Yeah. Yeah. MG Herbs: I always think if you take your medication, yes, it helps, right? For the most part, it can help. But with herbs, we're actually kind of addressing the underlying cause. We're fixing the issue at the same time as treating it. ⁓ You and I are very big on fertility care being super individualized. I that's a big takeaway for me with this one. Jaime: Mm. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. MG Herbs: recreational drugs, you know, we can talk about alcohol. So if we look at, you know, diet and lifestyle, we know that poor dietary kind of habits, lots of alcohol, lots of ⁓ oxidized food, like rancid stuff, deep fried seed oils, that kind of thing is all going to affect our spermies. They love antioxidants, they love, you know, beautiful, fresh whole food, they love ⁓ blueberries and capsicums, things that are purple and red, all those kind of things are going to be really nice for our spermies. Jaime: Mmm. sure is. Yeah, everybody's different. Like, and honestly, this is only just scratching the surface of fertility stuff. Like, like, like Mel saying, we're probably gonna have to do several episodes on this and kind of digging into some of the really big components of it. But this is just kind of illuminating to you all just the scope of what it could be when you're looking at fertility, which is why it's not just one supplement. It's not just that. Mm-hmm. Mm. MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah. Jaime: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, I knew you were gonna say that. I know you love to talk about the fatty head of the sperm. I actually was just talking to a client yesterday and her partner is vegan. And so we were saying that for him, he needs to be on the algae. MG Herbs: and they need lots of omegas because that's how they form their head. Lots of good fats. Yeah. Jaime: which is why seeing a fertility naturopath like Mel, myself or Danielle on the team would be really good at getting you that personalized approach to specifically what you need, which is ultimately what we want for you all. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Jaime: oils as a vegan alternative. So a vegan alternative for your Omega 3s, because like Mel said, it's really important if you're not going to have fish oils. And also, we've done a video, we did a podcast where we talked about the importance of good quality fish oil, right? So if you haven't, we're going to have that episode for you guys as well. But when we talk about these and Omegas from a vegan source, algae is the best, right? Because it's the most similar. And that is going to be really good for their little sperm heads as well. MG Herbs: We want that whole system approach. You know, we want healthier pregnancies, but I just want conception. That's the first thing, but we want healthier pregnancies and we want really, really healthy, super cute babies. And that's what I aim to make. Mm-hmm. Jaime: Absolutely. MG Herbs: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Inside the Apothecary. And in our next episode, we'll continue to explore deeper into our next topic, whatever that might be. And we will definitely be doing a PCOS and an endo and, you know, stay tuned for all of our other bits and pieces. It was good to chat. Jaime: Thank you. MG Herbs: And you know, you can still eat nuts and seeds in the diet. You can still do like avocado and flaxseed meal. Chia seeds are beautiful. Like there's other things other than eating fish as well or supplementing fish oil. ⁓ We can supplement choline or we can supplement flaxseed oil or. Jaime: really important if you're vegan. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. Bye. MG Herbs: ⁓ gosh, there's so many options. like, yeah, there's definitely things that we can work with, but if you're vegan, it's not, you might need to supplement that. You need to supplement that pretty much like a lot of the time. So yes, you need a little extra goo goo for the head. Jaime: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I agree. Okay, so then, so that's where the importance of food. this is where like what I say, because we talk about that three month window, right? I always kind of say to my couples, I think it's really good to put yourself through a bit of a three month, at least bootcamp fertility bootcamp. Right? So this is where you want to have a look at what are you eating? What's in your environment? MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jaime: you know, but then that also goes to other environmental stuff. So in terms of like what skincare, what laundry. So if you're using regular deodorants, lots of perfume, if you're using regular cleaning products, these things can have an impact on your hormones. And these are what we call as like endocrine disruptors or like hormone disruptors. So do you want to explain what that is? Or do want me to take one? MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. amount. Well, it's part of your exposure, right? Like if we're chemicals on ourselves, then it's going to upset the whole system. We're going to get toxin exposure. But when it affects our endocrine system, it's literally kind of affecting our hormones, right? We're looking at the possibility that some of these things that we're spraying on ourselves might, our body might think that that's the hormone and it'll fit into the puzzle piece that our actual hormone should be and it will dis- the endocrine system. Jaime: So I have a little way that I like to explain this to people. Right. So what I say is do you remember everybody, everybody remember how a while ago now it's like the world told us stop using BPA, right. And they, everyone, everyone go BPA free, right. Now BPA is like fragrance is like perfume is like a lot of these things, hormone disruptors. The way that I like to describe them is on the edge of your cell. If you can, on a video there's all these are MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Jaime: estrogen receptors that look like little locks. Estrogen comes along like a little key and locks and gets broken down. Now what happens is BPA and fragrance and everything comes along and it looks like estrogen. So it sits on all the locks. Then our estrogen comes along and is like, well, where am I going to go? All the spots are taken. ⁓ I'm going to build up in the body. So all these things like BPA, they mimic that estrogen and take all the estrogen receptors. Right? So they can really throw out the balance of our hormones. And that's what causes a lot of problems. And this is why you'll never go a hundred percent low tox. So don't, don't freak out, but it's what you can do to start to reduce the load in your body and in your environment for both of you. And you want to set this stuff up before you get pregnant as well. Right? Yeah. MG Herbs: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. One of the big. Well, cause our little bubbers are so sensitive to this stuff as well. So if it's out of the house as much as we can, it's really interesting. A lot of our patients like I see have bubba and then they're like, I don't want these toxins around my baby, but let's get the toxins not around you before bubba comes, you know, we use all this organic stuff, all this beautiful, you know, uh, toxin free kind of baby wash and like hair wash, you know, like nice stuff for our bubbers, but we need to do it for ourselves as well. Just do one. Jaime: Yeah I know. Absolutely. MG Herbs: at a time. Like I've written detox programs over the years and I will always say like you cannot, you don't want to go in and throw everything out and you know have to start from scratch. Like that's A, it's gonna cost a fortune. But B, it's super overwhelming. And often it will take a while to find the product that you most like using within, you know, like, so say you might need to try 10 different toothpastes to get a nice toothpaste and actual toothpaste that you like, right? So just start with one thing at a time. And then, you know, when it runs out, you swap, you look for the low tox option. Yes. Jaime: Mm. Hmm. I will do a little shameless plug on the nourishing apothecary website because we do have lots of low tox products on there. So cleaning and laundry and we have skincare and toothpaste like Mel said, lovely little options that I've sort of curated together on the website. Yeah. MG Herbs: Yeah. We've done the work for you. Yeah, we've tested it. We've done that work for you. Jaime: Yeah. And these are brands that we know like are really good quality. Yeah. Yeah. MG Herbs: and love. Yeah.