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When Mortgages Become A Commodity · The Ground Game

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the ground game for mortgage professionals built for the fight.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hosted by Brian Lovell and Mark Milam.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to another episode of the Ground Game Podcast.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: As always here with Mark Mylam.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am Brian Lovell, and today we're going to have a conversation about the commoditization of our business.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mark, I'll just kind of kick it off with you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're starting to see a commoditization of the loan originator, specifically based on price.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of different reasons why.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just have a little bit of a conversation.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: What are we seeing and what do we think some of those reasons are?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: I so I kind of feel like this has been going on really in the post-pandemic environment.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's mainly a function of where rates have gone, right?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody you're rarely giving someone great news that they're super excited about this solution.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: You're presenting them with this interest rate that's been somewhere between the very high fives at its best to eight at its worst.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that that's kind of been the range we've been hovering in.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: So no one's getting those quotes and just has their socks knocked off at how affordable everything feels.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so the the answer then, you know, what what does that every consumer advocate say is the thing to do then is you should shop, right?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: That and I think the important distinction we need to make here is that competition's good.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're not saying shopping is a bad thing, it's the but there's a difference between shopping and commoditization.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: And commoditization uh occurs um when consumers fail to differentiate any meaningful difference between vendors, right?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's I can get socks here and I can get the exact same pair of socks over here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, socks are a commodity.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: These socks, these socks in particular, are a commodity.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I feel like the industry has got a lot more of now than it didn't have pre-pandemic.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think um there's definitely a lot of factors in it.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think AI plays a factor in it as well.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think we saw we were talking earlier about, I think it was GFE 2010, started to encourage that, you know, as buyers are shopping.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: How much of a role do you think one or both of those is playing right now?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely AI plays a role.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, even for me, I, you know, I'll get a we we get a lot of legal contracts, of course.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the first things I do in our closed-end, you know, uh enterprise version of Claude is I upload the contract and I say, consolidate this, tell me what I should be concerned about, right?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Help be my eyes and ears, backstop me so I don't have to read every single thing.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, 32 pages, yeah.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure that's what's happening with quotes.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: People are getting quote from lender A, quote from credit union B, quote from bank C, and they're uploading it and saying, which one should I pick?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: That I'm sure that's part of the the issue there.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's such great that happens with technology.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: That is the not so great.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, we're gonna we're gonna stare and compare on a screen and make the decision solely based upon the number.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: But the architecture of our industry plays a part too.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and all of how standardized we are and how confined we are to the criteria that we must meet in the way that we even present our information.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the obviously I'm here, I'm talking about the loan estimate.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: The loan estimate is the you know, what you must present, it's all got to look exactly like the competitor's loan estimate.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if you don't have any sort of differentiated way to present the information and you're solely relying on the loan estimate, boy, you you are really boxing yourself in there versus using something more evolved.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So um, Mark, give me like as an originator, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Give me like an example of where you're seeing this take like a take place in your business right now.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll give you the like real world example.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's Friday after 5 p.m., which not surprisingly is sometimes when you get client calls because they've gotten off work, they're super excited about some potential home, and they call you.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's in and of itself not a particularly unique situation.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: In this case, this real case, it's Friday after 5 p.m.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: You get the call.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, uh, you know, we have never spoken before, um, but we've been our our agent Kate has been telling me to contact you, and I it just something keeps coming up, but we have just seen a house that has just come on the market.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: We think it's gonna be it's gonna get a lot of offers.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Can you help us?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh or even if they even really get to the can you help us, it's we need help.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to look at my wife and say, we're we're not gonna make our dinner reservations.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, we probably need to find somewhere else to go for dinner.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to be here.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and that is part of my job, right?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is part of my job to make that decision.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to make that decision, but this is what I've chosen to do as my profession.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: These people do need it.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're getting the place they're going to live is more important than we're reading for dinner.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the ways, too, that you're choosing to differentiate differentiate yourself than another loan originator, another loan originator out there.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it could also be the reason why the agent trusts you as a referral partner anyway.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna answer the phone.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna help you.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we do that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: We have a great call, you get the the pre-approval done.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh obviously you're retrieving credit, you're spending money, you're you're you're taking time, all told by the soup to nuts, you probably spent 90 minutes, maybe two hours on it, getting them pre-approved, getting figures in front of them, making a video to go along with the figures that you're sending, talking about pros and cons of each option.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is the first time we're really talking, and it's a lot happening at once, right?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: You made the request through the portal so they can upload whatever documents you need.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're doing your verifications if that's what you're doing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then off they go.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then invariably the next morning, there's 50 questions.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Can we hop on a phone call and just go through this?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're trying to get comfortable with this because Saturday, by the way.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And preparing to make their offer, and that which gets into how long do the contingencies need to be?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: How quickly can we get an appraisal back?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Can we get an appraisal back in due diligence?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's gonna bubble our offer up to the top.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any way we could waive the financing contingency completely?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Stop me if you've heard this before, right?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: The Smith song.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Stop me if you've heard this one before.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so Saturday goes a lot like that.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Agents texting, needs an updated letter, different price point.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we're going in.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: These are our contingencies, they're super tight.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do closing in two weeks.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Can we close in two weeks?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we can get closed in two weeks.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: We do everything in-house.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: They make the offer, and lo and behold, their offer gets selected on Sunday, and then they start shopping.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: On Monday, when everybody else is available.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now they want the lowest rate, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And they're going online and they're seeing this thing here with you know, a consumer direct lender that's headquartered out of Manhattan, and we get into the shopping thing.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's, I think, unfortunately, the most common uh repetitive commoditization that happens in our industry.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: We take all of the differentiation up front because no one makes any money until the very end.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, correct.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like you can ask for 50% up front, and they get all the value of it, including the terms and the offer and the pre-approval letter and the tight turn time and the local.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, the very pre-approval letter that we're generating has got a logo on it and a name on it that that listing agent probably recognizes and has come to associate with trust.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: When this guy says or this girl says, I can get it done in this amount of time, I know they can because I know the reputation of that company.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: I also know where they are physically.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: I know I can walk over there if I need to or drive over there if I need to.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then the shopping process, of course, introduces this whole other lender that doesn't possess any of that you know, credibility or location.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that is where I see it.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I see the biggest commoditization in our industry.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all around the fact that nobody particularly loves the rate they're getting.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I was gonna ask you, like, I think in a different market, maybe rates are lower, and I don't know what lower would look like.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not, you know, is it 4%, 5%, 6%?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: But in a in a different market, is there less or more or the same uh of this right now?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's less, the better the news gets.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: I yeah, the moment, and this is not not unique to mortgage consumers.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is anybody.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I you just told me a story about buying a car.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you get the sticker on the car and you're like, that seems crazy high.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: What's your first instinct?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go shop.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: See if I can't find it somewhere else.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it seems crazy high because rates right now on the mortgage side, rates right now are a lot higher than they've been for the past, you know, yeah, decade and a half.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we find ourselves in the situation where you know they get the rate and they're like, holy moly, that's a lot different than the rate I have on my current home.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and then that introduces that shopping commoditization experience.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think if they were getting a rate at four and a half or five, that probably wouldn't see it as much.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I can remember, you know, go back a couple of years when inventory was really, really tight and uh sellers were getting 50 offers on their property.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and one of the strategies that a lot of loan officers would do then to help their buyer win a deal is they would call the listing agent and essentially, lack of a better term, make an argument for their borrower and them getting this home.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Those again are differentiators, you know, in the market.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, like the seller may have taken a contract based on whose name was on that pre-approval letter.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have a good feeling about this has a high likelihood to happen exactly the way the contract says it's going to.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned things like waiving contingencies on appraisals or financing or whatever it may be.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then you come to find out down the road that, hey, that's not the case.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they went, they went somewhere else.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I do feel for listing agents in that uh I actually had this happen uh not that not that long ago that the listing agent called me even before I could reach out to her.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: I call that a comfort call, by the way.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: The comfort call is where you call the listing agent and say, Hey, I've done everything.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: These folks have been thoroughly pre-underwritten.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: I know when we get to the closing table, your seller's gonna be happy, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but this listing agent actually called me.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'd worked with her before, and she's like, I'm so grateful that you're on the other end.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think we can get this closed by this date?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Have you verified everything?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I have.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: And she there were actually two lenders listed on the on the financing contingency, and she struck through the other one.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: The listing agent did.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that was not particularly well received by the buyers, and it actually worked against me, according to the selling agent.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: It actually worked against me, and the buyers did not wind up going with me.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you can see how how listing agents would feel that way.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: They would be like, hey, I know this entity, I don't know this one.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going back to my sellers, you know, vouching for this offer or at least advocating for the offer.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm only gonna advocate it with this side.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so it does beg to be this little bit of a dance of how do you underscore the importance or the differentiation without turning it in, you know, turning people off.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think in that instance too, um, you know, remember, most of the time uh we were referred to by the buyer's agent, not the seller's agent.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, when this when a seller is also saying, hey, listen, a large part of why we're taking this deal is because of whose name is on the pre-approval letter, should say a lot.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and you know, I'm not saying like maybe that could have gone differently if the seller would have picked up the phone and had a conversation with of why.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, um, you know, which is interesting about our business because on the real estate side, they're determining who's representing them before they even see the first home.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's it is starkly different.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not gonna say real estate agents don't get shopped because I know they do.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: But in almost every profession, and I'm not gonna let's don't isolate this to real estate agents.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Let's like, let's talk about CPAs, financial planners, um, you know, any professional that you're gonna go out and hire to help you with something complex you that is gonna be difficult for you to do on your own.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's tell me the last CPA that you talked to that said, if you find a cheaper quote with another CPA, shoot it over to me.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Or any financial planner that says, Hey, if you go across the street and you talk to another financial planner and they're less expensive, you know, I'll match it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, nobody in that profession says that.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's no different with real estate aid.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: The real estate agents that I work with would never say if someone's just charging you two and a half percent or two percent, just let me know and I'll cut my compensation down to two and a half or two percent.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is a very interesting thing how quickly the mortgage piece of it can turn into a commodity, particularly after you've given all the value up front.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to the all of the value up front, you know, it's for a borrower, they don't see all of this stuff, I think, sometimes.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like I don't know that they recognize that you sacrifice time on an evening or on a weekend.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that they understand there was a cost involved to even getting them pre-approved.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if they can't see all of these things, I don't want to place blame on anybody, but like whose fault is it when it comes down to this?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know that it's anybody's fault.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think, but I think every link in the chain could maybe do a little better job of education on that piece.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I would include uh us, the lender, uh uh, and the specific loan officer.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think the selling agent can can do their part, and and the great ones really do.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: The great ones say, hey, there is a difference.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Please don't make me walk in there with you know, consumer direct or whatever it is, that this particular pre-approval letter that no one's gonna know who that is.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you need to use somebody local and not just for the letter.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is the part that could get underscored a little bit better.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just we need a pre-approval letter from a local lender, which I think does get said a lot.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard it get said.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just we need the pre-approval letter, you need to use.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's the difference.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just we need the pre-approval letter, you really need to use a local lender for the transaction because it's going to be much more well received by the listing side, and it's going to give you a higher chance of your offer being accepted.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: What I do see, and I have heard happen a lot, and I've talked to colleagues about it, not just in our company, but at other companies, is the dialogue sometimes is a little bit more of you need a local pre-approval letter, and then do your shopping as you as you choose.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So is there is there ever a time where like matching is the right call?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And let me let me give a little bit of a setup to that because it we're in October of 2026 right now, and the market is moving swifter than I can like maybe going back to 2020, this is as swift as I've seen the the mortgage market move, meaning the rate market.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the conversation you have with a borrower on a Friday night today could be very different come Monday or Tuesday morning.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we set that up?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and is that going back to my original question?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it when is matching the right call?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I have tried to employ this on that Friday night call that I get now.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if that same Friday night call I mentioned earlier comes in now, it would be hey, uh, I am more than happy to sit down and have a conversation with you.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm gonna have to go, I'm gonna have to make it up to my wife tomorrow.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: So uh just just you know, sort of smiling as I say it.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: But let me let me say to you, I I view these things like a partnership.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: I am your partner in this, and I will definitely be here to help you.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna ask you for the same.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously, I know you need you want a great deal, a fair deal, you want incredibly good service, you want great advice, you want to get this house.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I am I am your partner to help you do that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Can we agree that you'll be mine to to work through this process together and have that dialogue up front?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And listen, if they're not willing to say yes to that on Friday night, then they've got the wrong lender.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you've got the wrong client.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's uh agree to you know, put down our guns and walk to our walk away from this.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: But if they say yes, at least then you've established I'm going a little outside the box here for you.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be your guy or girl, I'm gonna drive this home for you, but but I need to know that you're with me.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you can you can establish that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, here's the the thing about our business.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you're an unscrupulous lender, you still can't overcharge, you know?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and so there's this sort of you're they're going to get a reasonably good deal working with you, and they're gonna get all of that service that they need to get the home.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we kind of set at the beginning of this episode talking about, you know, vendor versus advisor, and you've done a really great job of setting up the advisor piece.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we kind of designed this to be a little bit in two parts.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna I wanna transition us a little bit.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna ask you a question that's gonna set up part two of this uh here in a minute.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: But what does a great originator provide that you can't see on a loan estimate?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Boy, there's so many things.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um first of all, is accessibility, right?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: And not just accessibility of I text them and they respond to my text, but uh the willingness to say, listen, this is complex enough that we should do a video chat.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know, tell me do you prefer Teams or Zoom or Google Meet, whatever it is, and then you set up the video call, you share your screen, you talk through the the pros and cons of these options.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, or maybe it's hey, I know you asked me for a 30-year fixed.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: I know that's what you told me that you wanted.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let me chat with you why this other thing might be as good, if not better.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And let me be clear, I'm compensated the same regardless of what you choose.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: I want, but I want to make sure that we at least turn this rock over and be sure you don't like what's underneath it better than the thing you thought you needed.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's uh certainly a big part of it.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Another part of it is boy, you've got a really complex income situation and your assets have moved around a ton.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I need to make sure we don't get you two weeks into this only to find out that you're not gonna close.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we got I gotta have the experience, the aptitude, the accessibility.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: All of these things have to come with, you know, this differentiated experience you're gonna get.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Then it's reputation.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Reputation certainly matters in all of that.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I think they're you know, the the great intangible, and real estate agents experience this experience this way more than we do.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: I have one of my favorite agents calls it the vibes.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you just gotta have the vibes.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: The good vibe of like, we're in sync.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: The way that you like to be communicated with is in my wheelhouse.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't always happen, you know.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes the vibes are off because how you communicate is not how they like to receive information.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's in and so maybe you're not the right person in that particular transaction, but that the great and tangible is yeah, you can fire a text to me and I'll give you the correct answer quickly.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just gonna be cut and paste from something I got out of Chat GPT, and then we're also gonna have this great partnership dialogue about making sure I'm doing everything I can do to set you up for success.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm gonna jump in here with one other thing about the commoditization flywheel.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's such a uh a well-used phrase right now, the flywheel.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: The commoditization flywheel looks like this it's you don't really provide a lot of differentiation.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: You quote, your quote is 90% of what you provide, okay, is the numbers, and you don't make a video, you don't call them to go through it, you just send it over and let them digest it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you give one option, maybe you give two.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, but that's basically it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Here are the numbers, evaluate me based on the numbers.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: You've already started it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's the first link of the commoditization flywheel.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Then they don't perceive a lot of difference between you and lender A, lender B.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: They throw you all into Chat GPT and say, please pick me the best one.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then that, but the agent really wanted them to use you because you're local.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so they the agent just says, just send them the quote, just send them the competitor quote.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then they send it to you.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then what do you do?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: You match it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Essentially telling them there really is no difference between that other lender and me, right?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: And stop me if that you've heard that one before too.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say I've been complicit in that particular scenario.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't want to be anymore, but but that has certainly happened to me, where I'm just like, send me the quote because we have to get the quote for fair lending.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then what do you do?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: You match it and effectively tell them there really wasn't a premium worth paying to begin with.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mark, you did a really great job of setting us up for the second part of this episode as we're talking about the commoditization of lending and the and the loan officer.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Talked a great deal about the flywheel to kind of get us started.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what I want you if you're you're watching the ground game podcast, we're gonna get into week two.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you turn in to the next episode where we're going to talk a little bit about what you can do as an LO to make sure this doesn't happen to you a lot going forward.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So tune in next week on the Ground Game Podcast.