Latest / Sales Against the Odds / Why Great Leadership Teams Outperform the Rest with Mark O'Donnell
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Mark O'Donnell: People have to be unafraid to just smoke out all the issues, big and small, in the business with the definition of an issue, not as the negative, a problem, but as an opportunity. It's an idea. [00:00:30] Lee Brumbaugh: Welcome everyone to another episode of Sales Against the Odds. My name is Lee Brumbaugh, Visionary of Sales Xceleration. Saying visionary today, uh, because I'm very excited to be with our guest, Mark O'Donnell, who is the Visionary and CEO of EOS Worldwide. He's been a serial entrepreneur, EOS implementer, and also is the co-author of the new EOS Mastery book series, which I was checking out before this podcast. [00:00:55] Lee Brumbaugh: Mark, thank you so much for, uh, joining us today. [00:00:58] Mark O'Donnell: Yeah, thanks for having me [00:00:59] Lee Brumbaugh: talk a little bit about from business owner to EOS implementer. Tell us a little bit about your journey and really how it prepared you to be so successful in the visionary of EOS [00:01:10] Mark O'Donnell: I think it's an interesting story, not only because it's, it's my story and we all think our own stories are interesting. It's that I had no intention on being an EOS implementer. I had no intention at all. I had a company that I started with my brother in 2007, which was a vertically integrated pharma biotech services business, and we caught the entrepreneurial bug. [00:01:36] Mark O'Donnell: I started 23 total companies. Nine of them were, let's face it, were the sustainable ones. The rest, may they rest in peace. And we're, in a lot of ways, just succeeding in spite of ourselves. it was chaos and mayhem. We had four companies on the Inc. 500/5000 list simultaneously. And while on the outside it looked really successful, it was a lot of work and it was just, yes, chaos and mayhem would be like my, my first and middle name. [00:02:09] Mark O'Donnell: So I, started reading all the books. I hired a business coach. And have you ever seen the show The Men Who Built America on the History Channel? [00:02:19] Lee Brumbaugh: I have not. [00:02:20] Mark O'Donnell: I mean, it is fantastic. I mean, there was no laws around how to run a company, and so people like John D. Rockefeller and, you know, they just kind of ruled the world kind of thing, with no limitations whatsoever, right? [00:02:36] Mark O'Donnell: I read The Rockefeller Habits, the book, and which became Scaling Up. I hired a coach, and it was a little bit like, I just couldn't get my team, 'cause I had my brother as my core business partner, and then I had two other business partners and a bunch of engineers, right? [00:02:52] Mark O'Donnell: And I just couldn't get the adoption of my team to do planning in any systematic way. And so I was struggling with this and, and it just wasn't working. And I finally got my brother, he would watch the documentary, The Men Who Built America, but, uh, he finally finished, uh, Rockefeller Habits on Audible. [00:03:14] Mark O'Donnell: And he finishes Audible and it says, "You may also like Traction." He dives in and he listens to Traction. He's like, "Mark, this, we can do this. The other stuff's just too complex, so we can do this." I was like, "Okay, whatever." my optimism on my business partners and my brother adopting any system was really low. So I read the book. I listened to the book, then I read the book, Traction, and I was like, "Oh, this is like every business book I've ever read with templates." And most business people, especially engineers, love templates. I mean, you know, why reinvent the wheel? And so I started self-implementing EOS and went onto their website and I signed up for EOS Implementer Bootcamp. [00:04:04] Mark O'Donnell: I didn't know it was to become an implementer. I just thought it was for EOS worldwide to teach me how to implement EOS better. [00:04:13] Mark O'Donnell: So I show up. I think Gino has said that my 90-minute meeting practice was the worst he's ever seen because I didn't practice at all, and I just showed up and, you know, kind of wong it, winged it. [00:04:25] Mark O'Donnell: I go there and I'm like, "This is interesting." Like, these people, I felt almost like I accidentally joined a cult or I was with my people for the first time ever 'cause the culture was just so thick and so palpable, and there were other entrepreneurs here thinking like I think and, and just their core values, I shared them, which I didn't experience before in my life before that time. [00:04:50] Mark O'Donnell: And so I was really just energized by this. And so I went back to my business partners. I started, they adopt- We hired an implementer, actually, Jonathan B. Smith, at the same time. So I went to boot camp and hired an implementer simultaneously. You know, it's kind of unusual. [00:05:07] Lee Brumbaugh: Yeah. Yeah [00:05:08] Mark O'Donnell: I was getting results in my business right away, and in hiring an implementer, I realized it was like, "Doctor, heal thyself." [00:05:16] Mark O'Donnell: You just couldn't do it. So I, hired Jonathan, became an implementer. I was implementing for my portfolio companies, and I just immediately saw the results that I was getting for the leaders that I had in my businesses, the aha moments that were occurring, the growth. And at one point, uh, another implementer, Sue Hawks, who's still an EOS implementer today, she sends me a lead for a potential client, and I'm like, "Well, what do I do with this thing? [00:05:47] Mark O'Donnell: I don't even know. I'm not really an implementer. I just went to boot camp." she's like, "Just, dummy, go do a 90-minute meeting for these people. You're going to have a lot of fun. worst case that happens is you hand it to another implementer." Okay, fine. So I go and do this, and it was fantastic. [00:06:03] Mark O'Donnell: I mean, the gratitude, the impact, and just those 90 minutes for free was just really, really just more than I could ask for. And, and I didn't own the company, which is even better, so I had no responsibility for these humans. I walked out of there with no to-dos, nothing. It was just absolute freedom and wonderful. [00:06:22] Mark O'Donnell: So I started implementing EOS and made the decision then about a year later to exit the day-to-day of those, the companies that I owned using the tools of EOS And eventually sold those businesses in 2018. Implemented EOS, 500 plus full-day sessions, over 100 clients, and, then became a coach. And I started coaching other implementers on how to build their practices, and I did that for about a year. [00:06:55] Mark O'Donnell: I was just really, really passionate about helping not only my clients, but helping other implementers build their practices, build their businesses. And so then I became head coach a- at the time of COVID. And at that time, we were just a in-person company. Me and one other implementer were the only people to ever do a virtual session for a client before, ever. [00:07:19] Mark O'Donnell: So I was sleeping under my desk, teaching implementers, in some cases, how to open up a laptop. [00:07:24] Lee Brumbaugh: Yeah, no, they're still [00:07:26] Mark O'Donnell: and we were like on the phone like, "Hey, you got to hit the Zoom thing." "Well, what's the Zoom?" You know, "Where's my camera?" I, you know, my laptop's from 1998. So we went through that entire crucible. We found EOS was just even more important during that time than ever. [00:07:41] Mark O'Donnell: And then in, July of, uh, 2020, I, stepped into the visionary CEO role at EOS Worldwide, and we've grown just about 500% since. And it's been just a, a lot of fun. you know, what makes me qualified other than just being passionate about the tools, the system, the people, the, what the impact that we, we make I've kind of played every role. [00:08:07] Mark O'Donnell: I've been a self-implementer, so I've self-implemented the tools. I hired an implementer. I was an implementer. I was a coach, was head coach, and now visionary. So I kind of sat in every seat [00:08:20] Mark O'Donnell: So I suppose that makes me at least a little bit qualified, [00:08:23] Mark O'Donnell: Well, I love the story. I mean, obviously some of the, the coincidences that came about, but it's just, this is what you get when you, you talk to an US implementer, by the way. Like, it's rare to find a US implementer that doesn't have a passion for what they do. [00:08:36] Lee Brumbaugh: When you're seeing companies grow and get traction, set good rocks, and get into issues, I mean, it is, it is a fun job to do to see the business growth of these companies, and for you to do it at multiple levels, albeit by coincidence or not, your brother getting an audiobook, it's really cool to see, so [00:08:51] Mark O'Donnell: Right. The Amazon recommendation engine's good for something. [00:08:56] Lee Brumbaugh: So you mentioned the growth, and obviously 500% is, is growth. But, you know, obviously SX and EOS, we've, we've got a lot of strong alliances, so we've seen this grow as we've grown over these years. But, and maybe I'm, I'm saying this word wrong, Mark, but I was thinking about this, this podcast, and it almost seems like a momentum. [00:09:13] Lee Brumbaugh: And when you think about it, you know, you've got this business operating system whether it's the implementers, but it almost just seemed like EOS is just this momentum overall. So what do you think sort of the biggest areas that have created this, culture, fostered this momentum? D- and do you see it that way? [00:09:29] Lee Brumbaugh: 'Cause it just seems like it, it's a buzz that's out there. Like, how, how did that momentum really come to be? [00:09:35] Mark O'Donnell: momentum's a good word. I would probably call it a Movement. [00:09:39] Mark O'Donnell: and the reason why I would use movement, and if we, if we think about an organization's purpose or even an individual's purpose. And when we talk about in EOS the core focus of the organization, where you take the, the core values of a business and you add it to the core focus, been called mission statement and lots of things over time, you end up with the soul of, of the organization. [00:10:03] Mark O'Donnell: And for us, I think there's three tiers of core focus. The first tier, passion plus niche is core focus. And so you take the first part, passion. A passion is usually internally generated. You know, you might be really passionate about, you know, World Cup, FIFA, soccer, football. [00:10:24] Mark O'Donnell: you're passionate about something. And EOS started out as Gino's passion for helping entrepreneurs get what they want from their business. And it was just internal for him, those aha moments going off and with his clients, the light bulbs. and that's part of the reason why our logo is a, a light bulb. [00:10:45] Mark O'Donnell: but it was really about that internal motivation. Then later we took that, that passion and it was transformed into a purpose. And that purpose was helping entrepreneurs get what they want, but then it started to become about those entrepreneurs, not n- necessarily about the internal gratification of the activity, if that makes sense. [00:11:11] Mark O'Donnell: So that's been our, our purpose. And just recently, I would say that I started to recognize this, well, probably close to five years ago, maybe more, and, and in hindsight it was obvious, it was already there, is that that last level of core focus is a cause. And a cause goes beyond you and your locus of control and influence. [00:11:39] Mark O'Donnell: And EOS, because it is so simple, it creates results for clients, it's timeless, it's based in first principles and other... It's based on the things that will never change. you read the things and you're like, "Oh, I've read this in every business book ever." Yep, you did. And you're going to read it in every effective business book for the next thousand years and probably more. [00:12:05] Mark O'Donnell: So it's based in first principles, and so it just is so easy to use, so easy to translate from one entrepreneur to another. And because that effectiveness occurs, it's just word of mouth. It's organic. People care about each other, and they care about alleviating one's pain. And so when you have an entrepreneur sitting with another entrepreneur, one's getting what they want from their business and the other isn't, they want to share EOS, they want to share traction. [00:12:36] Mark O'Donnell: Because they want to help their friend alleviate the pain. And so to me, that's how it's become a movement, and it just extends so far beyond what EOS worldwide can influence, what any group of implementers can influence, and it's really just taken on a life of its own. It's a, just a very much a network effect type business model, and so that helps [00:13:05] Lee Brumbaugh: I will say, you know, in working with and some of the US implementers, whether it's the Kirk Schneibers of the world or the Laurie Clemons, like again, serving in the community, it's always, it was always about how do we, goes back to the core focus, how do we help clients get better? [00:13:17] Lee Brumbaugh: How do we help them grow? How do we help them be successful? And you can see it, 'cause people aren't looking at the dollar signs. They're looking at that passion for helping them grow. And it's evident, it's contagious, I guess is, is another way to put it. [00:13:27] Mark O'Donnell: and self-implementation. So we have sold well over four million books to date. It is free to implement EOS, so there's literally no barriers. You don't have to hire an implementer to get started. Just go to the website, download the tools. You can probably find the book at your local thrift store, and you can getimpact and results in your business without paying a dime [00:13:52] Lee Brumbaugh: Yeah, love that. You know, one of the areas I was looking at, and I mentioned books and kind of your mastery series, I was looking at and I clicked on Amazon, actually ordered it, 'cause I was like, "Oh, I need to hit that." It's one of those areas that comes up, especially so much in sales, was the focus on issues, [00:14:06] Lee Brumbaugh: I think it's your latest book, right? And so, you know, so many times with SX, an advisor comes in the business owner already thinks they know what the issue is, right? It's, "Salespeople don't work," or, "I got to fire these three popole or w- people," or, "We're not using our CRM." And then we dig in and we see that it's really not, it's not the root issue, right? [00:14:24] Lee Brumbaugh: Sometimes it is, but oftentimes it's not. How does EOS, and specifically this book, help business owners go deeper? What gets missed in really getting at the root cause? What, what do you see how that's missed? And specifically, is there areas of where you see that's missed when you look at it from a sales lens? [00:14:40] Mark O'Donnell: I think number one, what the purpose of the book is to really just build the muscle, build the skill of solving issues fast and permanently. That's the goal. And in order to do that, number one is you have to create a, an environment of open and honest. People have to be unafraid to just smoke out all the issues, big and small, in the business with the definition of an issue, not as the negative, a problem, but as an opportunity. [00:15:14] Mark O'Donnell: It's an idea. It's, a obstacle. It's a barrier that may or may not have a negative connotation, sort of neutral on the positive and negative. It's just really anything that is left unresolved in the business is the definition that we give to an issue. And so you got to name all the things that are unresolved. [00:15:35] Mark O'Donnell: You got to get it out on the table, and then you have to come together as a team to solve them fast and permanently. And so we go through in that book the, Ten Commandments of decision-making and really how to think about going from unresolved to resolved. And when you think about it from a, a sales lens, you kind of end up with three major things that are open questions for a team. [00:16:07] Mark O'Donnell: Number one is, do we have the right product in the right market at the right time? Because if you don't have that, then you're going to struggle no matter how great your people are or how great your sales process is. It's not going to matter 'cause nobody wants the thing, or there's just not enough humans who want the thing. [00:16:28] Mark O'Donnell: And so you got to have the right product in the right market. And so if once you kind of get over that hurdle, to me, that's step one. And let's just assume that you're selling a product that people want in a market that's plentiful enough, that you can sell into. then to me it is right people, right seats, and how to think about right people, right seats because [00:16:52] Mark O'Donnell: While you do need a cohesive go-to-market strategy with the process, if you don't have 100% right people, right seats in the sales organization, starting with that sales leader all the way down through that entire sales organization, you're just not going to hit the revenue you want ever [00:17:10] Mark O'Donnell: And if you have 100% RPRS and they fully fill those seats 100%, the process is just, it's really more of a unique, go-to-market that is differentiating for you, not necessarily, necessary because the RPRS already know what to do and you don't have to teach them what to do because they already know what to do. [00:17:30] Mark O'Donnell: They just have to do it your way, which is the definition of the process. [00:17:34] Lee Brumbaugh: Most companies don't have the bandwidth to build a high functioning sales department to allow them to meet the revenue targets with Sales Xceleration they don't have to. Our experienced fractional sales leaders consult and implement your sales strategy, infrastructure management, and team development. [00:17:51] Lee Brumbaugh: Discover how we deploy these proven sales solutions to address your sales challenges. By going to our website, filling out the contact form, we'd love to hear from you. [00:18:03] Lee Brumbaugh: [00:18:03] Lee Brumbaugh: So when you're going through this, right, and you've got that, that owner, that pull and tug, right? And the sales team is, saying, you know, we, we don't have necessarily maybe the right products, or we need to refine that, right? And the owner is saying it's the right people, the right seats. how do you collectively, you know, get to the point where the leadership team is be able to really address kind of the elephant in the room that it may not be the right person? [00:18:25] Lee Brumbaugh: Like, I've been in those meetings. You know, we've been on those offsites, and it's, you got to get to once a capacity with that sales leader sometimes. Like, any stories or examples of where you got the owner to realize that, I'm sure you've got plenty. You're laughing because you have plenties. [00:18:38] Lee Brumbaugh: But where it's like we got to address the elephant in the room, which may be the person, or it's like you said at the beginning, where our products is not aligned to what the market needs. Like, how do you get those tough conversations? Is it uncomfortable? Is it, what's it look like? [00:18:52] Mark O'Donnell: from my experience, the number one thing that EOS does and w- how we would help solve a, a sales issue or any issue at all is it all starts with the strength of the leadership team. At its root, at its core, what EOS is doing is helping a business owner create a world-class leadership team that is open and honest. [00:19:18] Mark O'Donnell: They're transparent and vulnerable with one another. They have a high degree of attention to results, and they have peer accountability. what I've seen multiple times is I'd go into a session, and EOS implementers doing thousands of sessions, per quarter are seeing this too, is that they come in, they miss the sales goal for the quarter. [00:19:42] Mark O'Donnell: let's just assume that it was a reasonable goal and it was a little bit of a stretch, not a layup, but they had to strive for it. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't a gimme. And we report we are off track by however, much, and the team starts to discuss and debate the, all the reasons why we missed revenue. [00:20:04] Mark O'Donnell: And the sales leader is just sitting there quiet, not saying anything. it's literally a spectator support for them. Like, they're just in the stands while everyone else is talking about the issue that they own. That is the most common thing I've seen so many times in my session rooms and others, where it is up to that facilitator, that team leader, whoever's running that meeting, if it's an implementer, it's their role to say, "Timeout The singular person whose face we should be looking at is checking his or her phone trying to coordinate lunch, and you guys are talking about the revenue miss. [00:20:48] Mark O'Donnell: this literally happened to me, and I'm just like, "Okay, I'll change the name to protect the innocent." His name is Mike. so he's just sitting there I'm like, "Hey, everyone should be talking to Mike. Mike needs to give us the reason why we missed. Why'd we miss?" Mike just shrugged. [00:21:09] Mark O'Donnell: "I don't know. Just the customers weren't there." [00:21:12] Mark O'Donnell: And I've seen that happen over and over and over again where the team, the level of accountability, the peer accountability to the sales leader or any other seat, quite frankly, but it does happen, very often in the sales seat where the taking of accountability for the overall revenue goal is just missed, and then they're non-participating in solving the issue. [00:21:38] Mark O'Donnell: and then just goes with a litany of excuses. I've seen that probably 40 to 50 times [00:21:45] Lee Brumbaugh: the other thing you said a little bit on, on the litany of excuses is, The leadership team believes that these from a gets it, wants it capacity, they're still checking the box, they're open and willing to change and pivot and be open to suggestions and new ideas and building good rocks. [00:22:00] Lee Brumbaugh: Like, that's something you can work it, right? Work with, because somebody that's truly wants it, you know, capacity is you start questioning. But always work with somebody. [00:22:08] Lee Brumbaugh: somebody that wants it is in, and is open to taking the suggestions, running with it, those are the ones that, you wanna work with and typically I've seen can work. But yeah, when they're checked out and doing the lunch orders, that's a different ballgame altogether. [00:22:21] Mark O'Donnell: if they've got to come with ideas, they need to come with, what are the activities that lead to this miss? Do the volume too low? But also I, I do think that so many times, and let's just say, which I've seen as well, the sales leader is just banging their head against the wall. [00:22:40] Mark O'Donnell: I mean, they've, they're trying everything. They feel like they have RPRS, in their sales teams below them, and they think they're hitting the activity, but it's just not breaking through. it is a product issue more often than people think [00:22:58] Lee Brumbaugh: Yeah, that's well put, 'cause it is a natural inclination for the business owner just to point the finger at sales. And that's the big thing with, with SX that we try and do is understand value proposition, ICP alignment there. Again, if, uh, there's 15 things that can fall down, and if your sales process is broken, if you don't have a value proposition that resonates, all of that can be aligned. [00:23:19] Lee Brumbaugh: That's the biggest thing that we try and do is make sure that that is synced together, 'cause it's sometimes not the person. It, it can be a market fit, to your point. You know, other area you hit was, data, you're at the meeting and they're saying they've got a target, they missed their target. [00:23:32] Lee Brumbaugh: I think the best leadership teams often have a good understanding of the data and how to use it to pivot in the business. Oftentimes, though, I'll see a good leadership L10 scorecard, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a good sales L10 scorecard or even a good operations L10 scorecard. How does good leadership scorecards and data align to good operational data at the other functions? [00:23:57] Lee Brumbaugh: How do they use that well? Talk to me about what good data looks like and how that makes an organization able to grow. [00:24:04] Mark O'Donnell: I think the mistake people make is they don't begin with the end in mind when creating their leadership team scorecard and then translating it down to their, their sales scorecard. So we use a tool called the Getting What You Want tool, and it's really you taking your revenue numbers, your profit numbers, your measurables in terms of size and scope, and really defining what it is that you want to get out of the business in the week, in the quarter. [00:24:32] Mark O'Donnell: You start with the quarter, and then you break it up into to 13 weeks at a glance. And so you then reverse engineer what are the activity-based things that lead to getting what I want from the business. [00:24:48] Mark O'Donnell: And five to 15 numbers, less is more. Man, if I could get you down to seven numbers, great. [00:24:55] Mark O'Donnell: So now you've got a pretty good leadership team scorecard. Everyone on that leadership team has to have a number. Then we go dive into the sales scorecard. Now, inevitably, it is, what it is that we want, probably a revenue number, but we're not going to put the revenue number unless it's booked for the week or something like that. [00:25:14] Mark O'Donnell: So you can certainly do it that way. But then we do the same thing. We just reverse engineer the roles and responsibilities from the accountability chart to say, okay, let's say if I have five people on my sales team and they have varying degrees of quota just based off of maybe their experience, maybe their territory, maybe their product, whatever it is, and then we just reverse engineer, well, how many, you know, what's our close rate at each stage? [00:25:43] Mark O'Donnell: And what activities do I need to do based on my close rate to get it what it is that I, that I want from the business this week? And so I see a lot of people doing lagging indicators, non-activity based, even leading indicators that you don't control. So you want to keep it real simple and, The best sales teams that I have seen, they basically have the same number to varying degrees of weekly goal based on their product, experience, territory, whatever it might be. [00:26:16] Mark O'Donnell: And it's basically the same number times five, and they're reporting it in front of everyone in that, uh, sales team. And then that's just really, a compilation then that's reported. You just add them all up basically, and it gets on the leadership team, and it's represented as, as one number. That's what I've seen be the most effective, where it's just completely tied 100% accountability, 100% control since it is activity-based. [00:26:45] Mark O'Donnell: If you hit the activities and you are confident in your close ratios at each stage of the pipeline, then you end up getting what you want from the business. You end up hitting your revenue goals [00:26:57] Lee Brumbaugh: so many times all of it should be building towards what those leadership team numbers, if it's clear linkage, whether it's data or rocks, I mean, all of it should disseminate down, issues up, issues down, like all of that stuff. [00:27:09] Lee Brumbaugh: And that's what I love about EOS is It's not just the leadership impact team. It's really c- should spread across the organization. that's where I see it work really, really well. So, [00:27:19] Mark O'Donnell: Yeah. And there's just total accountability. There's no place to hide. And then it's just RP/RS and doing the activities that produce the results [00:27:28] Lee Brumbaugh: So EOS has worked with countless entrepreneurs, leadership teams, and I know it's changed, right? We were talking before the podcast in the AI world of, of how that's changing of how to be successful. But when you look at the companies out there that are outperforming their competitors year after year, what do they understand that everybody else misses? [00:27:48] Lee Brumbaugh: Is there anything that stands apart? For that SMB owner that's listening today, it's like you get it, others don't, and I think you can kind of just tell when you walk in to implement, you're like, "You're probably going to be successful because you get it and others don't." Anything that stands out to you, Mark? [00:28:02] Mark O'Donnell: By a country mile, it is the quality of the leadership team. [00:28:09] Mark O'Donnell: And when an implementer walks into the room, because we've got the pattern recognition of what a great team looks like, and they're not going to tell the client this, if you hire an implementer, don't make them do this, please, is we know who's going We walk in and we're like, "Oh, they're going, they're going. They're great. Eh, I'm not sure there." But with a high degree of accuracy, we can tell you who's going to make it on your team. And it might take two years for us to be direct with it, but we'll hint the entire two years . But it's really the ability to build that truly great leadership team. [00:28:48] Mark O'Donnell: And now we have some data that a third party did on companies. There's 4,000 companies in this, in this study, and there's 400 that just stood out from, from everyone else. And these are not companies running on EOS It was not intended to be a EOS study. But there's 400 that were just outperforming everybody else. [00:29:10] Mark O'Donnell: Turns out they were running EOS. And so they have a different angled view of why EOS works. And yes, it's, it is the leadership team hands down, but there's an- another underlying why the leadership team even matters. And it is where the entrepreneur, the founder, the leader is spending his or her time. [00:29:35] Mark O'Donnell: And in the lowest performing companies, they're spending their time doing sales and marketing activity. [00:29:45] Mark O'Donnell: In the highest performing cohorts, they're spending all of their time, or most of it, on talent development, building out the leadership team. And so the art of delegation, of letting go of the vine, the visionary entrepreneur stop selling, stop marketing, hire someone like SalesX to go help you do that and let go of it, you will outperform. [00:30:12] Mark O'Donnell: Now, the data was really interesting, which was that they outperformed the comparative company by 35% annually on a revenue basis, and they sustained that growth rate 18% longer. So 35% over 10%, you know, it's like 13 and a half percent versus 10%, it might not seem a lot, but we compound that over year, over year, over year and two years longer, it's worth millions and millions of dollars to most organizations. [00:30:39] Mark O'Donnell: It's super impactful [00:30:41] Lee Brumbaugh: I'm going to ask you one last question, and this is actually from my, uh... [00:30:45] Lee Brumbaugh: and it's similar to the last one, but, um, you can take this personal or professional. I was with our production team this morning, and they said, "You are supposed to ask this every episode," so you're my first guinea pig on it. So, uh, [00:30:56] Lee Brumbaugh: personally and professionally, where did you win against the odds? So as you look at your career, what stands out to you where, where you won against the odds? [00:31:03] Mark O'Donnell: I would say that my entire life is a little bit against the odds. I grew up in a really interesting house. I was homeschooled all throughout high school, and my mom honestly was depressed most of that time. So she was supposed to be my teacher, but she didn't really teach us anything. [00:31:24] Mark O'Donnell: She was in her, in her bedroom. And so my brother and I, we needed to learn calculus because the state of Pennsylvania required a certain level of math, and we didn't have any money, so we would mow the neighbor's lawn to get money, and then we'd ride our bikes to the bookstore, Waldenbooks, when that was a thing, to buy ourselves a calculus book and then go teach ourselves calculus. [00:31:51] Mark O'Donnell: my dad worked really far away, three, four hours away, that he would commute back and forth, drive eight hours a day. So we were really just left alone most of the time. I finish high school, homeschool. I moved to Ireland for, uh, a little while. Didn't go to college right away. [00:32:07] Mark O'Donnell: Come back to the United States. I, went to, to school and figured out how to get myself into big pharma without a four-year college degree. [00:32:20] Mark O'Donnell: and then I had them pay for my four-year degree. I just kind of continued on that same type of very untraditional path. [00:32:29] Mark O'Donnell: I haven't really done anything, you know, the way most of my friends and, and colleagues have, have done it, just going, going to a regular high school, then going to college for four years, then getting your first job and working your way through. Um, I kind of had to hack it all. which I would say that I had sort of a chip on my shoulder as a result of not being able to do things that other people were doing, until I really just realized that it was a complete and utter competitive advantage that I was never handed anything. [00:33:04] Mark O'Donnell: I had to figure it out on my own. If I wanted anything, I had to go mow lawns and paint railings and whatever else, shovel snow [00:33:12] Mark O'Donnell: with complete and utter, you know, I was 10, 11 years old doing this, no parental supervision to, to speak of. It's really just created a competitive advantage where, I don't wait for anything or anyone to, help me or tell me how and when to do anything. [00:33:31] Mark O'Donnell: So, I would say that that would certainly be, against the odds. [00:33:37] Lee Brumbaugh: Great story. Thank you for opening up on that, Mark. And, I love these, where like grit, resiliency, like I wasn't born with this pedigree. I was rural Indiana. Like, so to, to pull yourself up and do that, really a remarkable story. [00:33:49] Lee Brumbaugh: It's great to see your path, but yet you're proud when you've accomplished those things with your hard work. And, you know, life knocks you down sometimes, you get back up and you do better. So thank you for sharing that [00:33:59] Mark O'Donnell: Yeah, sure [00:34:00] Lee Brumbaugh: Well, everybody, thank you so much for joining. This has been another episode of Sales Against the Odds. [00:34:04] Lee Brumbaugh: If you didn't get anything out of this on how to grow your sales team, how to run your business better, I think you probably were asleep for the podcast. Thank you, Mark, so much for joining us. Tune in again another two weeks where we'll have another business leader that challenges us how to, uh, grow our companies. [00:34:18] Lee Brumbaugh: Thanks everyone.