Latest / The Psychology of Relationships / Breaking Free from Anxious Attachment: Calming Your Nervous System in Love w/ Kirstie Taylor

Transcript

Breaking Free from Anxious Attachment: Calming Your Nervous System in Love w/ Kirstie Taylor · The Psychology of Relationships

0:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm Julie Kraftcheck, and I'm U.A.
0:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Xu.
0:03
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the psychology of relationships.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've ever felt consumed by overthinking, fair of abandonment or needing constant reassurance and relationships, you may resonate with an anxious attachment style, but anxiety doesn't have to define your love life or your future partnerships.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, we're joined by Kirstie Taylor, dating coach, writer, and author of what I wish I knew about love, to explore what it really means to navigate anxious attachment and move towards greater security and relationships, anxious attachment develops as a protective strategy rooted in early relational experiences.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: While it once served a purpose, it can later create cycles of reassurance seeking emotional reactivity in self-doubt.
0:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Kirstie shares practical tools for regulating anxious thoughts, strengthening self-trust, and reshaping core beliefs about love in Worthie-Dess.
1:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether you're in a new relationship or a long-term partnership or a day-dague, this conversation offers insight into how to build emotional security from the inside out, because when anxiety no longer leads the way connections can feel steadier, safer, and more fulfilling.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember to subscribe to the Psychology of Relationships on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.
1:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And if this episode gave you clarity, we'd love a rating and review.
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the Psychology of Relationships and you're listening to an episode that just might change the way you shop for love.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Enjoy!
1:40
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2:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Last year, I went through many different life changes.
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2:59
[SPEAKER_03]: The date of the podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington Post calls one of the top 10 podcasts about love and sex.
3:07
[SPEAKER_03]: On each episode, we'll talk to real data.
3:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Before we got on this call, I was trying to research, what is the average American study the most in school, like how many hours are spent, and I couldn't find the exact numbers, but basically,
3:20
[SPEAKER_03]: your basics, math, English, biology, those are when we spend the most hours on studying.
3:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yet when it comes to matters of the heart, like love, relationships, communication, you know, the basics, human survival skills we spend zero,
3:38
[SPEAKER_03]: hours on and curiously so nice to have you on her show because we're here to talk about what you wish you knew about love.
3:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's just start right there.
3:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody teaches us about love.
3:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And you've said that you have felt that you're a victim to your own love life.
3:54
[SPEAKER_03]: What does that mean?
3:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, we grew up learning so many antiquated ideas around love, whether that be from, you know, the movies we watch, the Disney movies we watch for the princess is saved by the prince or the playing games that we heard and old teen bug issues and everything.
4:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Those, right, those beliefs that we form from those messages and everything really affect our love lives.
4:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And it did for me.
4:20
[SPEAKER_04]: For me, I thought I was this broken person who needed to be saved.
4:24
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was a half that needed someone else to be my whole actually.
4:28
[SPEAKER_04]: I was probably felt like a force.
4:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And I needed a three force for someone else.
4:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And I led my love life like that for way too long.
4:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's because no one really gave me any other better advice.
4:40
[SPEAKER_04]: No one told me that love could be differently and I never even stopped to think that I had control over my love life.
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So take us back to this Christy, the one that did not know about love.
4:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you kind of describe what you were going through?
4:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You clearly said some of it, but were the day-to-day feeling of looking for that person to fill you?
5:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
5:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's what I think.
5:03
[SPEAKER_04]: just hearing that takes me back to when I was in college which was almost a decade ago.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And thinking to my college boyfriend when I just every day worried about what he thought of me and if I was enough and how I could change myself to be enough for him and just feeling so anxious and so
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[SPEAKER_04]: hopeless, but without any self-awareness.
5:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I had no idea.
5:28
[SPEAKER_04]: I was just functioning on autopilot.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We get into a fight.
5:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I do everything blood, sweat, and tears to fix it, even though he really doesn't care.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And I just will completely change myself for this person because I guess at the time, I just wanted to be loved.
5:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I wanted someone.
5:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I wanted to be with someone.
5:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that resonates with all of us because we all feel that way, and that's why so many people are in this dating game because they want to be loved and they want to find someone to love.
6:00
[SPEAKER_03]: But why do you think people struggle so much with finding love?
6:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, we don't learn about it in school, we have no basic skills around it, but the other side of it is maybe because of all the struggles it makes love more worthwhile.
6:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we're supposed to go through all of this turmoil.
6:17
[SPEAKER_03]: What are your thoughts on that?
6:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I actually think it's a bit of both and I do think a lot, especially because I talk about attachment theories, it forms from our relationships with our parents.
6:27
[SPEAKER_04]: So I didn't have a horrible relation to just my parents, but I didn't have the best and I definitely never felt really loved by my dad, which daddy issues, we can get into that, won't do that right now.
6:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a whole podcast episode.
6:41
[UNKNOWN]: Right?
6:41
[SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, going through all those struggles, like you said, is a chance to learn about yourself.
6:48
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a chance to grow the moment we have a relationship, our first relationship.
6:52
[SPEAKER_04]: It's basically all of our insecurities reflected back onto us.
6:56
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you have the self-awareness and when we get older, you have the maturity and the emotional maturity to do something about that.
7:02
[SPEAKER_04]: You can grow as a person, you can grow as a partner, and you can find someone
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[SPEAKER_04]: who is a way better partner for you than that older version of yourself who wasn't so self aware and who hadn't done the growth.
7:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So we hear from data is all the time that really resonate with this anxious feeling.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I 100% resonate with this.
7:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you and I both were more anxious, data is an avoidant data is, do you think it's a nature or nurture thing or a little bit of both?
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think sometimes modern dating lends itself to anxiety, but then also what you were just say about the way you were raised in all the impacts of your life.
7:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that question.
7:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I've never been asked if I thought it was nature and nurture.
7:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Part of me wants to say, well, big part of me wants to say that it's nurture, that it definitely forms with our parents and then our first relationships, whether or not those went bad or not, but you make a really great point.
7:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Modern dating definitely doesn't help.
7:59
[SPEAKER_04]: people who are anxious, it will make you a lot more anxious.
8:04
[SPEAKER_04]: All of the playing games, even just a lot of people are how they function on dating apps right now, where they're just like, oh, this doesn't work out this person like big deal.
8:13
[SPEAKER_04]: There's all these other people I can swipe on.
8:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely doesn't help for an anxious person when they're just waiting for someone to be like, I'm out of this versus people who are actually really committed to finding a relationship and putting in the effort.
8:24
[SPEAKER_04]: So I would say that it is mostly nurture, but if you are predisposed because of your past, modern dating will definitely trigger it.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely will fuck with you.
8:36
[SPEAKER_03]: There we go, perfect way to hold it on a whole other level.
8:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And it all stems from your childhood, right?
8:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Every expert will say, all of this bullshit that comes with modern day day, stems from your childhood.
8:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And I find this so interesting is that when you're a baby, you are given unconditional love.
8:54
[SPEAKER_03]: You can cry, shit your hands, whatever your parents are still going to take care of you.
8:57
[SPEAKER_03]: But at a certain point, you start experiencing conditional love.
9:01
[SPEAKER_03]: You feel like your parents will only love you if you earn their love.
9:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So I would love to hear your thoughts on what is a relationship between early childhood experiences love and how that manifests into adult love.
9:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
9:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
9:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think it's really interesting.
9:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Some kids don't receive
9:20
[SPEAKER_04]: that unconditional care at the beginning.
9:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Some, I mean, back in the day, our parents really didn't have a lot of resources.
9:26
[SPEAKER_04]: So a lot of parents would just let their kids cry it out.
9:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And that forms something inside of them that's like, if I am sad, I can't rely on other people because when I show a motion or something, my needs aren't going to be met.
9:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Growing up more, if you're
9:43
[SPEAKER_04]: teenager I guess is the word if you go to your parents for emotional support and you're met with I'm too busy or I'm unavailable right there's a lot of parents that mean well but they're just not available then you're being taught that you either have to do really well at school for your parents to notice you and to give you that love or you can't rely on your parents you can't rely on anyone to give you that unconditional type of love and I think it's
10:09
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very interesting because I definitely don't think relationships are unconditional love, but to the extent of, as long as you're a good person, as long as you're showing respect and you're building trust in everything, then in that sense, in that environment, it should be unconditional, which we would hope to see for our parents, but not everyone sees it from their parents, and it doesn't always have to be malicious from the parents.
10:32
[SPEAKER_04]: It can be unintentional.
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So was there any points of your child that you've got a pinpoint now that you're in light of, that you're like, oh, this plays it to my anxiety and daily.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I've heard you're listening to this, be like, oh, no.
10:47
[SPEAKER_03]: By the way, let's copy out this by saying every parent has fucked up.
10:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, there is like no perfect parent out there So this is not to throw anybody's parents under the bus.
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and it's so easy to blame our parents That's like the easy way out.
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think attachment theory is doing that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's more of just let's take ownership and understand ourselves So we can work with when we got
11:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Totally.
11:09
[SPEAKER_04]: You both make such a good point.
11:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's our parents just make mistakes.
11:13
[SPEAKER_04]: No one's perfect.
11:14
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure make mistakes.
11:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we're exactly I mean, I think the big thing is my dad.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He just wasn't an emotional person growing up.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I can't recall at all him saying I love you or that I was beautiful or anything like that.
11:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's very interesting that he's got in a lot better at it as an adult.
11:33
[SPEAKER_04]: It's actually funny that I'm sure my younger self would have loved to have heard my dad say I'd love you more And now he says in all the time when we hang up and it almost kind of feels uncomfortable because I'm just so not used to it And I you know cringe a little bit, but I'm I'm also trying to work on him like okay He's trying I'm trying like let's try we don't have a horrible relationship at all So definitely that was my dad comes up for me
12:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess, how does it play out into today?
12:03
[SPEAKER_04]: It's actually really funny.
12:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Now that I'm sorry, putting those two together with my current dating, I have always, only ever felt really emotionally connected to a person if it's my partner.
12:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I have always struggled with friendships and I used to really feel uncomfortable hugging people and saying I love you to my friends, but I'd never had that issue in a relationship.
12:25
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that it's almost that I was, I never received it from my dad and I was overcompensating in relationships and trying to heal that wounds that I never had with him with my partners.
12:36
[SPEAKER_04]: same boat.
12:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Same.
12:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I've never felt close like platonic relationships.
12:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I was never comfortable being overly affectionate and I would be very envious of my friends who can have these sleepovers and feel so comfortable in each other's space and I just don't get it but with a romantic partner I'm like on top of them all the time.
12:58
[SPEAKER_03]: get in my personal space and that's interesting that you bring up that point because my dow is exactly the same way lacking emotions and I always felt like I had to earn his love which plays into my anxiety.
13:12
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's talk about this anxious attachment style because so many people identify with that.
13:18
[SPEAKER_03]: How did you first discover your anxiety showing up in your dating life?
13:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It's so funny.
13:23
[SPEAKER_04]: You say that.
13:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I took a year break from dating because I had two back to back relationships with guys.
13:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I really wasn't that interested in, but it was the classic anxious avoidant trap, but didn't know at the time.
13:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And I had a friend who was a therapist and training.
13:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And she was like, oh my gosh, you need to read this book.
13:42
[SPEAKER_04]: It's called Attached, and I had the epiphany moment that so many people have, which is I read about an anxious attachment.
13:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, wow, these people literally like pride open my mind and just took it out and made a book about it.
13:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Because that's how I felt.
13:56
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, this is exactly what I'm experiencing.
13:59
[SPEAKER_04]: And I never put the word anxiety behind it because I've always struggled with depression in my life.
14:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And I never
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[SPEAKER_04]: even considered that I might be anxious especially in my dating life and once I read that I was like anxiety That's it and dating anxiety and dating that is what I'm experiencing.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so fascinating because I feel like I've always experienced anxiety and Dating and I would show up for me a lot after a great date if they were to text again or to plans Where to happen.
14:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I was very anxious about the next step occurring that was always my thing
14:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think even, you know, in my current relationship, there are times that I feel anxious and it's not because of my partner, it's my own stuff and I've identified that I know that I, you know, I think I realized and this is maybe my only criticism of the book attached is it kind of makes it feel like there's something wrong with you.
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: where I feel like what I've learned to embrace more is like I'm anxious in some ways in relationships and not in others and I actually thought I may be suffered from anxiety and I like signed up for this whole program to counter the anxiety and it realized I had no anxiety outside of dating.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess my question for you at a long-winded way was how did you learn to kind of overcome it or is this something that you just live with?
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Because like for me, I kind of just live with it in my, I needed a partner that would accept it.
15:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that you said that at the end, that's such a beautiful realization, because I think it is a tooth, I know, it is a two step process.
15:31
[SPEAKER_04]: There are things that you can do to work on yourself, and I did that during that year dating break.
15:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I identify my protest behaviors.
15:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I've, you know, learned healthy, healthier coping mechanisms.
15:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I saw it there, but I said at the time, and I helped, he helped me realize what red flags ignored and why I didn't create boundaries with people.
15:48
[SPEAKER_04]: but I honestly think the biggest healing moment was when I got into my current relationship with my securely attached boyfriend.
15:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And I forget where I read it, but we often hear this message that we have to love ourselves for others to love us or we need to fix our ship before we get into relationship.
16:07
[SPEAKER_04]: But when it comes to dating and it comes to relationships, that wound and that those painful memories and everything are
16:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So part of the healing is having healthier human interaction.
16:22
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you have this belief that you're not worthy of love, you can do all these things to feel more worthy of life in general, but it isn't until you're with someone who stays with you during those dark moments, who sees you what you consider your flaws and still stays with you, that you really start to fully heal.
16:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And I am definitely on board with Julie saying that you're, you feel like this is just me.
16:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say I'm like secure leaning anxious.
16:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I'll ever be 100% secure.
16:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm fine with that.
16:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just a little bit of an anxious person.
16:58
[SPEAKER_04]: That's my personality.
17:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And we did this, we had another episode, a way, way back about attachment theory, and we did like a few different tests, and there were some that, you know, would be like, oh, with this person, I am scoring this way, and then with this person in my life, a different way, or maybe I am of a little anxious about someone texting to make plans, but once I'm in a relationship, if they want to make plans with their friends, I don't care at all.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't mean that you're anxious across the board if your identified as anxious either.
17:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Totally, and yeah, it's unique for everyone.
17:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe you really struggle with the beginning of a dating and once you get into relationship, everything cools, but that's as kind of what you just said.
17:40
[SPEAKER_04]: So it is just different.
17:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Some people are really triggered by one thing.
17:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Some people are triggered by other things.
17:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
17:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's, I think it's very easy for us to talk about this anecdotally, but when you're in it,
17:53
[SPEAKER_03]: it's really hard to crawl out of.
17:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So one major hang up, a lot of our listeners experience, it's like waiting for the techs back or waiting for the callback or waiting for some some signal back and that waiting period creates so much anxiety.
18:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So step number one is figure out the why behind why we get so anxious around this type of behavior.
18:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Why do you think that is?
18:17
[SPEAKER_03]: What is the why behind it?
18:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Fear of abandonment is a big one for people.
18:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Fear people will leave their lives.
18:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Fear being alone.
18:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Some people might think that there's they might have a scarcity mindset.
18:29
[SPEAKER_04]: They may think I had this really great day with this person.
18:31
[SPEAKER_04]: We clicked so well and if it doesn't work out with them, I'm never to find someone I click with that well.
18:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Those type of things, so scarcity mindset, fear of abandonment, it's all kind of just a fear, a fear of losing love, a fear of not finding love.
18:45
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very fear driven.
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely agree with that.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's, will we see people struggling with dating?
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It always roots down to a fair.
18:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know for me too, like, I think one of the things that I started to do was I would just reach out first.
19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't mean that you're always the one owning the movement of a relationship.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: That's clearly not a good place to be in one side.
19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I was sitting waiting for the phone to ring or to buzz for a text,
19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I would just look at it and be like, is it worth my time to sit here, feel like anxious or is it worth my time to gain control?
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: There could be no answer if I reach out or the person could say that they are not interested, but at least you know.
19:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was kind of like taking that fear of rejection by its head.
19:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
19:33
[SPEAKER_04]: If you get anxious because you worry about whether or not someone will text you back or say if they had a good time in the day, take that power back from that situation and be like, I'm going to text this person and say, I had a great day.
19:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you're not feeding into your anxiety and your fears.
19:48
[SPEAKER_04]: You're being like, I can take control of situation.
19:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I can trust myself and then I can find out what their feelings are, rather than just like wondering, it's so funny.
19:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Our minds think that if we wonder about something enough, we'll find the solution.
20:02
[SPEAKER_04]: But that is definitely not the case.
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We just drive yourself crazy.
20:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Basically, our minds are like our worst enemy times.
20:09
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, because we think we know everything, but our minds are just an echo chamber for ourselves.
20:13
[SPEAKER_03]: We only know what we know.
20:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
20:15
[SPEAKER_03]: fear is an interesting concept because on one hand, fear can be debilitating.
20:20
[SPEAKER_03]: On the other hand, fear can really protect us.
20:22
[SPEAKER_03]: It saves us from burning ourselves on the stove, saves us from oncoming cars.
20:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So when we're experiencing that anxiety, which stems from fear, how do we decipher if it's
20:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Productive fear versus anxious fear.
20:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so pinpointing what the fear is if it's fear that You will be alone forever You can maybe take a step back and be like where is that coming from?
20:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that true?
20:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that a place of there's evidence behind this fear or is this fear because I've been told that if I'm going to be if I'm single past 35 I'll never find someone the pool's getting smaller
21:03
[SPEAKER_04]: is the fear based in a place that's actually productive, that's actually helping me, or is the fear based on all these things that aren't serving me anymore, and maybe they were protecting me at one point.
21:15
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, wanting to belong is a completely normal thing.
21:19
[SPEAKER_04]: People think the moment they're lonely, they're like, I'm doing this wrong, I should love myself enough to never be lonely.
21:24
[SPEAKER_04]: But to want to be with someone as a natural human experience, it was a survival method.
21:29
[SPEAKER_04]: But to take a step back and be like, is this helping me?
21:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this serving me?
21:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Or is this keeping me stuck and holding me back?
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, am I playing the victim?
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Or am I making progress?
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe I follow on to that because I think this is something that a lot of people struggle with and I've definitely been here too.
21:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Is is it my own anxiety talking?
21:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it my gut telling me that this is not the right partner?
21:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
21:54
[SPEAKER_01]: What was your way to like decipher between the two?
21:57
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a really hard thing for a lot of people with anxiety or just relationship anxiety, right?
22:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a couple things to say about this, the gut feeling, a good question to ask yourself is, is this feeling persistent or is this feeling more triggered?
22:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So is this feeling, do I think about this when I'm just driving in my car and feeling okay?
22:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Do I think about this when I'm taking a bath?
22:21
[SPEAKER_04]: When I'm calm, do I think about this?
22:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Do I worry about this?
22:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Or does this worry come up after a fight?
22:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Does this worry come up when I don't hear from my boyfriend or partner?
22:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Does this worry?
22:32
[SPEAKER_04]: happen when we're having a disagreement something like that because anxiety will often be a triggered thing and a gut feeling will be a calm, assured feeling.
22:44
[SPEAKER_04]: That can come up sometimes when we're triggered and we're worked up but is still there even when we're not triggered and we're
22:51
[SPEAKER_04]: So for me, that's that's something I struggle with in my relationship, you know, at a partner can always be better, right?
22:58
[SPEAKER_04]: There's always something that you're like, I can change this.
23:01
[SPEAKER_04]: If only this were better, especially with social media, we look at couples on social media.
23:05
[SPEAKER_04]: My boyfriend was funnier.
23:06
[SPEAKER_04]: My boyfriend actually did TikToks with me.
23:08
[SPEAKER_04]: That used to be a big one.
23:10
[SPEAKER_04]: That used to be a big one, so that's a big boundary of ours, is that he's not on TikTok with me.
23:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And
23:17
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like does that actually bother me in our day-to-day, especially when we're just hanging out at home and we're doing things.
23:26
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I only think about that when I see other people's boyfriends on social media.
23:31
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's clearly an anxious thing.
23:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And then also another thing that I think is really beautiful to think about the only way that you'll know if you're going to be with someone
23:40
[SPEAKER_04]: you will be with someone forever.
23:42
[SPEAKER_04]: You will make a great relationship.
23:45
[SPEAKER_04]: As long as you have respect, as long as you have mutual connection and trust in all that, is that if you choose.
23:52
[SPEAKER_04]: At the end of the day, people who stay in decades, longs, relationships that are really great, is that they chose.
23:58
[SPEAKER_04]: They chose during the hard moments to keep loving their partner.
24:01
[SPEAKER_04]: They chose to work through the fights.
24:04
[SPEAKER_04]: They chose to compromise.
24:05
[SPEAKER_04]: They chose to figure things out.
24:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And they chose to stay.
24:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So as long as you find someone who's great, you find someone who you really enjoy your time with, you just have to make the choice.
24:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
24:14
[SPEAKER_03]: So here's the tricky part though.
24:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I agree.
24:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a constant choice, but we know a lot of people who chase the anxiety because they mistaken the anxiety for butterflies and chemistry.
24:28
[SPEAKER_03]: So we even heard people say, well, I haven't had to wait for a phone call.
24:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't felt anxious.
24:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
24:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Is there something wrong with this relationship?
24:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Am I bored by this person?
24:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So then it causes that yo-yo effect of roller coaster dating and then you don't know what a healthy relationship looks like anymore.
24:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So how can people stop themselves from chasing after that anxious feeling?
24:52
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, it's a process.
24:54
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a process going from I'm attracted to these people who make me really anxious or I'm attracted to these people who are emotionally unavailable to secure, which can oftentimes come off as boring is actually what's going to be a great relationship for me.
25:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So what I would say is really important to do is to start doing some post date check ins.
25:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what did I feel on that date?
25:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Was there any red flags or anything?
25:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Did I feel anxious?
25:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Or did I feel butterflies?
25:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Did I feel like this instantaneous spark?
25:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Do I feel like it's too good to be true?
25:24
[SPEAKER_04]: In that case, I might be like, what are those qualities I'm looking for in this person?
25:29
[SPEAKER_04]: What qualities give me that spark or those butterflies?
25:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it that they're really hot?
25:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it that we have like this instantaneous connection that I think is necessary for a good relationship?
25:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Pinpoint what those are and then ask yourself how those have gone for you in the past.
25:44
[SPEAKER_04]: How have those instantaneous sparks gone?
25:46
[SPEAKER_04]: How have those butterflies gone?
25:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Because chances are you're going to see, like, oh no, that led to someone who is emotionally unavailable, that led to someone who is scared of being vulnerable with me, who was putting on this really cocky attitude that I thought I was attracted to, but actually doesn't lead me to a healthy relationship.
26:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So first part is just kidding, really self-aware around that.
26:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And then changing slowly what you're attracted to, getting really honed in on what your core values are and start to look for those core values in the people you date.
26:17
[SPEAKER_04]: And it can be as simple as starting to ask different questions on the date.
26:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Trying to think of one now, right off the top of my head, something that's going to bring out a little bit more of a vulnerable side of them.
26:28
[SPEAKER_04]: What's something you're really passionate about at work?
26:30
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, what's one of your biggest fears in life?
26:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Just kind of seeing how people react to those kind of questions can help.
26:36
[SPEAKER_04]: But kind of just reflecting on yourself, be like, what have I been attracted to in the past and why have I attracted to those things?
26:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And did those work out for me?
26:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Reflections?
26:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Very powerful.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It indeed is, and I think one of the things that I love about attachment theory is what you can learn from it.
26:53
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think you dated better after learning more about your anxious attachment?
26:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Ooh, I love this question.
27:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I became a lot more aware of kind of what I just described, which is the kind of people that I was attracted to, the biggest thing being.
27:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought I was really
27:14
[SPEAKER_04]: confident men, but I'm actually, I was attracted to this cockiness and that cockiness triggered my insecurities inside me and just triggered all this stuff I didn't like about myself.
27:25
[SPEAKER_04]: So some people would be like, oh, you should work on that which I did, but I also decided I'm not going to date those kind of people anymore.
27:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Someone who makes me feel that way is going to be a red flag for me instead of an attraction.
27:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And then another thing was when I would feel
27:41
[SPEAKER_04]: with some people called the ikk or cringe or whatever of my boyfriend at the time who will say just at the beginning of relationship or just even people I dated kind of right before him when I feel Grossed out by his behavior.
27:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna be like, what's that behavior?
27:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So he would text me consistently.
27:59
[SPEAKER_04]: That was a big thing with him and at first I was like, this is weird.
28:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Why is he showing me so much?
28:04
[SPEAKER_04]: It was almost like went into an avoided state.
28:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Why is he showing me so much attention?
28:09
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't like this.
28:10
[SPEAKER_04]: It feels weird.
28:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I'm not used to this.
28:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But then I took a step back and I was like, but I want to like this.
28:15
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what I've always wanted.
28:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I've always wanted a planner who is great at texting.
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So what is it about me that's being like, this isn't comfortable?
28:24
[SPEAKER_04]: It's most likely that I'm not used to it.
28:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know what I'm gonna do?
28:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is, I don't know, maybe this isn't the best advice, but I hope other people find it helpful.
28:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna ignore it.
28:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna keep dating him.
28:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And until I find something that he does, that's an unhealthy thing I don't like, I'm gonna keep dating him and help that these feelings just go away.
28:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Which they did, and it was beautiful.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think you've hit the nail in the head, the opposite side of anxiety and anxiousness is avoidance in a lot of times the reason why we're drawn to people when we are anxious that our avoidance is because we're essentially avoiding relationships because we know it's actually not going to be the relationship we need so it's interesting always to me that they are basically the same even though they seem so different.
29:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Totally.
29:08
[SPEAKER_04]: They're both based in fear, fear of intimacy, avoidance pull away, anxious people are scared of losing it, but we both get into this dynamic where it's not actually ever there.
29:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And a lot of types of avoidance are characterized as these demons are like the bad people, but it's really just, it's the same core problem that we're both dealing with and just manifest it in different ways.
29:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a fear of change too.
29:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in your example, you
29:36
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of inspired me with this thought, which is, I think in dating, we are always chasing to replicate the feelings we've had before.
29:45
[SPEAKER_03]: So we tend to, you know, we kind of overlay the current experience with previous and say, I don't feel like this before.
29:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And if it doesn't feel familiar, we kind of want to get away from it for some reason.
29:57
[SPEAKER_03]: But the reason why we're still dating is because the previous experiences have been worked out.
30:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe chasing
30:06
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a better way to go what you describe was a little bit uncomfortable, but you leaned into it because it wasn't a feeling that you had felt before.
30:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And in your book, you feel very strongly about the sentiment of not having someone or convincing someone to choose you.
30:21
[SPEAKER_03]: That shouldn't be that shouldn't be something that you're after.
30:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell us a little bit more about that.
30:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I talk about that a lot that you can't make someone choose you the fact is people love who they love and it's you know heartbreaking to think sometimes you want to be able to have a little bit more control over it but people connect and they're attracted to who they're attracted to.
30:41
[SPEAKER_04]: With that said, we oftentimes feel that, especially in relationships where things start out really good, there's all these fireworks, there's a spark, all of those type of things.
30:51
[SPEAKER_04]: We think that the moment the person starts to pull away, we just need to try harder.
30:56
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to try to convince them.
30:57
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to change ourselves.
30:59
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to prove that we are worthy of love, but at the end of the day, even if that person does, they're like, you know what, you know, us to ground, try this out.
31:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Does that feel good?
31:09
[SPEAKER_04]: You're always going to be in a relationship where you had to prove yourself and I don't think that's ever going to feel good for you and be a very deep connection with someone versus if you were in a relationship with someone who's like, let's choose each other.
31:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to be with you just as much as you want to be with me and we are choosing each other.
31:29
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a much more beautiful, stable feeling.
31:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So how did you come out of that because you said that you would chase?
31:37
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you learn that this was not the right approach and it was so much better in more fruitful to be with that person that also chose as you?
31:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean drawing boundaries was the biggest thing.
31:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I knew how I wanted to feel in a relationship.
31:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I knew that I had just been through enough that I didn't want to keep repeating the same crappy dynamic in my past relationships.
31:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So boundaries definitely helped.
32:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I said that I wanted, or I decided that I wanted to be treated a certain way with respect.
32:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I wanted to not be,
32:08
[SPEAKER_04]: made to feel like I was less than that my boyfriend or my partner and holding those boundaries and also holding boundaries for just feeling more like myself outside of the relationship too.
32:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I remember I drew this such specific boundary which was I told my boyfriend when we first started dating.
32:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I needed to leave his apartment by 10 so I could get back to my by 10 p.m. so I could get back to my apartment and have time to get a good night's sleep
32:36
[SPEAKER_04]: when your brain's just any work, when you're tired, you don't do well, but especially when you're writer, just does not end well.
32:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to do that boundary.
32:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And upholding that boundary, and even just having my boyfriend respect it, too, was just a game changer.
32:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, well, this is definitely not something I'm used to.
32:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was going to ask you that's a good follow-on.
32:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what were the signs that this one was different after you kind of did those back?
33:02
[SPEAKER_04]: There's so many signs while I talked about the consistent taxing was a big one.
33:08
[SPEAKER_04]: It was actually a great story.
33:11
[SPEAKER_04]: We were friends before, so we were friends for a couple of years, had a mutual guy, friend, group, and we did date for three dates.
33:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And when I said that that consistent texting really weird to me out, it actually caused me to decide not to date him anymore.
33:25
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not the best.
33:28
[SPEAKER_04]: I was just like, I'm not feeling this anymore.
33:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we should go back to being friends.
33:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And we were, we did that for about another six months.
33:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was during that time that I really realized.
33:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like,
33:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I'm just cut things off way too soon.
33:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I made mistake.
33:43
[SPEAKER_04]: He started dating someone else and I actually wrote an article about this, which is really cute to look back on.
33:48
[SPEAKER_04]: But I was like, I really feel like I made a mistake with this friend, and you know, now he's dating someone else.
33:52
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing I can do.
33:54
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, fate aligned six months later, we were at a friend's going away party and we hit it off again and we decided to go on a date.
34:02
[SPEAKER_04]: But that date was,
34:05
[SPEAKER_04]: be like two hours before he had to leave for a work trip for six weeks.
34:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
34:10
[SPEAKER_04]: So we went on our date.
34:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I drove them to the airport because I live nearby.
34:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And we had one like Peck kiss and he left on the airplane for six weeks.
34:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was during that time.
34:23
[SPEAKER_04]: There was, and it was to India too.
34:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
34:26
[SPEAKER_04]: There was not a single day that he didn't miss texting me, and it wasn't an overwhelming amount of text.
34:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And with that said, India, parts of India that he was in, did not have the best reception.
34:38
[SPEAKER_04]: So he really tried to text me and everything.
34:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was actually a really interesting experience to the beginning of our relationship because he would ask questions about me.
34:47
[SPEAKER_04]: That's another thing I wasn't used to.
34:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Truly genuinely wanted to know about my life.
34:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, wow, this is crazy.
34:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So on top of the consistent texting, respecting my boundaries, never pressuring me, sexually, never pressuring me to move into relationship too quickly.
35:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Always respecting and being open to talking about things, even from the get-go, even from the beginning of the relationship.
35:10
[SPEAKER_04]: clear signs that he was much different than the people I had dated.
35:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I think when they keep communication while they're away is a huge.
35:17
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the best way to tell.
35:20
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a big, it's green flag you could possibly find because a lot of people feel like especially at early dating you only went on one date.
35:26
[SPEAKER_03]: They feel like I'll just talk to you once you get back or once I get back, but in the communication going, it means they're serious.
35:32
[SPEAKER_03]: They want you.
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: If they want to communicate when it's not convenient for them, it shows that, you know, it's not just this is easy in the board or whatever.
35:43
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a really interesting experience that I know obviously not everyone can go through that Nord is that like something that you should have.
35:50
[SPEAKER_04]: go through, but it was really interesting because we just got to know that each other on such like a deep level, because again, he was asking so many questions and six weeks of communicating, he could learn a lot about each other.
35:59
[SPEAKER_04]: So it definitely was helpful for my anxiety in dating too because I could definitely reason with myself in those moments.
36:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, oh, he texted me a lot, oh, he made like our stupid dad joke and that's kind of cringe for me to be stuck back and
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have so funny as I've heard this happen so many times and one of my close friends has happened to and she first met her partner.
36:27
[SPEAKER_01]: She was not interested at all but she was chasing like guys in the band that were totally unavailable and it was that she, you know, did the self work and then she saw this person that was essentially there the entire time as someone completely different.
36:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think at the beginning he was boring.
36:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't interesting and then
36:48
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, she didn't see him as boring, I guess I don't want to say like all of a sudden you're into boring because that's not the case, but it was that she changed what she was attracted to and started to see him in a different light so you talk about this year break that you did was that kind of the pivotal point for you that you started to see things in a different way or was there something else.
37:09
[SPEAKER_04]: It was, well, the catalyst was those two horrible break ups with emotionally unavailable men that got me to take the year break from dating.
37:18
[SPEAKER_04]: But yes, it was during that time.
37:19
[SPEAKER_04]: I had been dating back to back.
37:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not even kidding you, it's a little bit embarrassing.
37:24
[SPEAKER_04]: back-to-back relationships for a decade, and I really just never took a break from it all.
37:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I never just tried to love being single, and I'm not saying that people have to love being single forever, but just enjoy it for a little bit if you are.
37:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, during those moments, I was like, okay, I can see the light, this is, this is...
37:44
[SPEAKER_04]: this work that I'm doing.
37:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I read attached.
37:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I read research papers.
37:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm missing a therapist.
37:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I talked with friends.
37:52
[SPEAKER_04]: All of that just really opened my eyes and jeez.
37:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm so thankful I took that year off because it
37:58
[SPEAKER_04]: made all the difference.
37:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when you say a year off, you mean no dating at all.
38:03
[SPEAKER_03]: There was absolutely no dating.
38:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Or the most part, I've always wondered if someone would ask me that question.
38:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Good one.
38:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave it to you, eh?
38:14
[SPEAKER_04]: For the most part, I did go on a couple of dates.
38:18
[SPEAKER_04]: There was actually one time where I saw like a cute yoga.
38:21
[SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't a yoga instructor, but he worked at the front desk of a yoga place.
38:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, I was really in to him, bubble-bub, there was this whole story, but I laughed and I was like, I should have asked for his number.
38:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I called the studio because I was like, this is a moment for me to be proactive.
38:36
[SPEAKER_04]: kind of take things into my own reigns.
38:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I call this studio.
38:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyways, we went on a date, did not go well.
38:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so there was like little things like that, but nothing like that.
38:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So now that you've learned all about yourself, we kind of started off this conversation with some of the lies that we've been told to about just, you know, the magazines we read or the movies we watch.
38:55
[SPEAKER_01]: What are some truths that you've learned now that you've had this reflection time?
39:00
[SPEAKER_04]: So the big one we touched on already is you do not want to be with someone you have to force to choose you, that's a very big one.
39:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Relationships should be work, but they should not be hard painful work, like crying on the floor of your bathroom after you have a fight because they're stonewalling you or something like that.
39:21
[SPEAKER_04]: You
39:23
[SPEAKER_04]: You can create boundaries from the get-go with people, and even on the first date, and doing that's going to feel a whole lot better than not having any boundaries.
39:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Ooh, a big one is the things you feel like you have to hide on dating apps or on the first date are actually the things that you should be showing on your first date.
39:39
[SPEAKER_04]: or on the apps, things that you should lean into.
39:41
[SPEAKER_04]: And okay, let me, let me reel that back in, especially with the U.S. And react to this.
39:47
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like, my first level.
39:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just gonna tell everybody about it, okay?
39:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so to an extent, if you're like, I, there's a limit.
39:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's a limit.
39:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you're like, I'm I need to act chill.
40:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to act like the cool girl the not as you being like I need to hide that I am someone who has a lot of emotions.
40:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to hide that I'm someone who has a lot of needs So instead of and when you hide those feelings of a most that you're an emotional person when you hide that part of yourself Love is never gonna feel good.
40:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You're gonna find people who don't want that for me because if they're attracted to you when you're not showing it Then they're not gonna be attracted to you when you do show it and
40:24
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what a lot of people, the toxic cycles people get into.
40:28
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you're like, I need to hide this about myself.
40:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, in terms of your authentic self and like a deeper sense of who you are, you should actually find ways to show it on first, second, third dates.
40:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe not the third example.
40:41
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm to put it in your profile.
40:44
[SPEAKER_04]: They'll figure that sooner or later.
40:46
[SPEAKER_03]: But that'd be a special surprise.
40:50
[SPEAKER_03]: You have a very interesting viewpoint on soul mates.
40:52
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't believe in soul mates.
40:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell us about that.
40:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, maybe this is the realist in me, but I just truly can not believe that we are only going to be a good connection with one person on this planet.
41:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, geez, even if we get a little bit more bit here, like God forbid your partner passes away, I would really hope that if they do that, that happens in your 30s, your
41:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I really hope that you can more than move on, but eventually find another person that you can love and be in a great relationship, too.
41:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think that when it comes to the idea of soulmates, people can get so caught up in that idea that they disregard red flags.
41:31
[SPEAKER_04]: They think that it doesn't matter because that person's my soulmate.
41:34
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't need to put in the work because that person's my soulmate.
41:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Things like that, it's just not realistic and I don't think that it creates a healthy mindset for
41:44
[SPEAKER_04]: when they believe in that.
41:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's such a high expectation for someone.
41:47
[SPEAKER_04]: It is really, it's very high expectation.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You're everything, yes.
41:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, yes.
41:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Find a great connection.
41:54
[SPEAKER_04]: But don't buy into this idea of like the other half.
41:57
[SPEAKER_04]: You are a whole, if you don't feel like a whole, like, change things about your life, build up a life that you really love, and also bring in your partner then you'll be two holes and think, like, two holes is better than one hole.
42:08
[SPEAKER_04]: It's even better.
42:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Whole with a W, I just want to make sure that people are hearing that, right?
42:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you can bring her with a doppiege hole too, but I'm exactly, I think that's exactly.
42:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Julie, actually, I don't know your take on soulmates.
42:23
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you think about soulmates?
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I used to believe in them, but I feel like I'd be, well, actually, okay, I do believe in soulmates, but I don't believe in them that they should be the person you end up with.
42:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I believe in them in the sense that soulmates are here to teach you a lesson about you.
42:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to shake your soul and I've read a lot of articles about this that there's a big difference between a soul mate and a life partner and the life partners who you go through life with and the soul mate is the person that teaches you the lesson and I definitely have had both my past ex I believe was my soul mate because it really changed how I viewed love in it.
43:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, Kirstie, I know you don't believe in soulmates, but I kind of feel like we're soulmates right now because everything you said, I resonate with so much, but I really think that like that he was there to teach me about myself, and to take that your break and step back, all of that was my story too, and that allowed me to find the partner I have today that is more of who I can see myself doing life with.
43:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, hey, that's, that's a different mindset of behind them.
43:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And I love that.
43:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I also have heard people say that we have multiple soulmates.
43:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I mean, I definitely can get behind that, especially with the idea of soulmates even being platonic.
43:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that.
43:39
[SPEAKER_04]: That's amazing.
43:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I just think of the idea of it's the one person must serve one.
43:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe in the one.
43:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't believe in the one either.
43:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
43:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So many.
43:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And also I agree.
43:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it has to be romantic by any sense.
43:52
[SPEAKER_03]: My soulmate is my cousin.
43:53
[SPEAKER_03]: she has she and I just have a soulful connection she gets me I get her but I don't I agree like it doesn't have to be a romantic soulmate at all right so now that you've learned all the things you've learned
44:10
[SPEAKER_01]: for anyone that's struggling right now because we know a lot of people are which is why we want to do this episode with you because I hope that other people also find you to be their soulmate that they can really resonate with what you're saying.
44:22
[SPEAKER_01]: What is one piece of advice that you would have of something that you now that you wish you knew back then that you now know.
44:29
[SPEAKER_04]: You would think this would just pop into my mind since that's basically what my entire book is.
44:33
[SPEAKER_04]: There's so many things and I feel like I touched on a lot of them.
44:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm trying to think of something I haven't already said.
44:40
[SPEAKER_04]: The biggest one is honestly the one I already mentioned about the authenticity.
44:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Really trying to show your authentic self on dates because that was by far one of my biggest issues.
44:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think would have scared away a lot of the people that I ended up dating.
44:53
[SPEAKER_04]: but don't take things so personally.
44:57
[SPEAKER_04]: That's definitely a big one.
44:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't take things personally because before it just used to be, you know, you're not going to be a match with most of the people you date.
45:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I read somewhere that was like the best mindset you can have in dating is that you're not going to be a good match with 90% of the people you date.
45:14
[SPEAKER_04]: especially if you're showing up as your authentic self, which is so true.
45:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So get really good with rejection, rejection doesn't have to always feel so personal.
45:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but just even nowadays with modern dating, geez, you could be a good connection with someone, and then could just not be interested in a relationship.
45:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Or they could secretly be married.
45:34
[SPEAKER_04]: I really hope that doesn't happen, but I just hear that so much.
45:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Or like, they're they're divorced, but they're actually just separated.
45:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Those type of things in your all the time.
45:41
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like every rom-com on Netflix or
45:43
[SPEAKER_04]: right.
45:45
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, don't try not to take things so personally.
45:48
[SPEAKER_04]: If you do, don't beat yourself up.
45:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe get a second person's opinion on things.
45:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Usually our friends can be a really great objective standpoint to things.
45:57
[SPEAKER_04]: But if you take rejection personally, it's going to be really hard to go through dating and not feel completely hopeless.
46:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Very good advice.
46:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah.
46:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's so many takeaways I've had from this entire conversation.
46:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for shedding light on your own experience at how this can relate to everyone.
46:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the biggest takeaway I have is that while it is important to do the work on yourself, that doesn't mean that you don't get into relationships either.
46:27
[SPEAKER_01]: no one is going to be perfect ever.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of it is relational awareness and how it comes up for you.
46:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That being said, I do think one of the best things that you mentioned, and I've done myself to, is taking that break.
46:42
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're feeling like you are so burnt out and you're doing the same thing over and over and over again, sometimes the best way to speed up is to slow down and take that time of reflection.
46:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't mean it needs to be forever because I think there is a time in the place of not taking that break versus like perseverance and just keep going and getting through it so much of it is the relationship with yourself.
47:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you feel like you're in more of that confidence state, I think it becomes a lot easier to keep going with dating because you can say like actually I want to feel this way or I know this is important to me.
47:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Last
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So look at the language you're using, look at how you're showing up, look at is it the definition of insanity that you're doing the same thing over and over and over again or is there progress being made because I think that can give light into is it a break that's needed or is it just to push to keep going right I love that.
47:43
[SPEAKER_03]: the break thing really is resonating with me because I think a lot of our listeners will say that they want to take a dating hiatus and they mean cold turkey hiatus not talking to anybody be a hermit or come themselves and I truly believe that's not the most healthy way to reset your dating mentality.
48:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I think a reset or when you take a break is when you're not so results driven or
48:13
[SPEAKER_03]: you're not tied to the result of finding someone.
48:16
[SPEAKER_03]: When you're taking a break, you're in this experimental open mindset stage where you try different things like getting the phone number of the yoga front desk person, that's something you would never do normally.
48:28
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not tied to the result of marrying that guy.
48:31
[SPEAKER_03]: You were just kind of like, hey, I want to experiment and see how this makes
48:35
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I love that.
48:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that goes into my next takeaway, which is we want to change our dating situations.
48:44
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why we're dating the previous relationships and workout.
48:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
48:48
[SPEAKER_03]: We're so scared of change at the same time.
48:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So if we can lean more into the change, the only way to have change is you lean into the change and not
48:58
[SPEAKER_03]: fight against it, it will garner more change.
49:02
[SPEAKER_03]: That is just how it works.
49:04
[SPEAKER_03]: A plus B you will see in this situation.
49:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And the anxiety that comes up, I like that you described kind of feeling the anxiety and not avoiding it.
49:15
[SPEAKER_03]: because when we overcompensate and avoid it, then we just push it down and it just erupts at some point.
49:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's important to disclose the anxiety, to communicate about the anxiety.
49:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Julie, you talked about controlling your anxiety, so if you know, you have those anxious feelings coming up.
49:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Be the first person to call and reach out.
49:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Be the person to say, hey, I get a little anxious if I don't hear from someone in three days.
49:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to tell you upfront and I appreciate persistent communication.
49:42
[SPEAKER_03]: all of the things to know that we are in control of our love lives and we're writing this book ourselves and it can go in any direction so don't put it in the hands of someone else because they're just going to scribble whatever they want on it and it's just not going to be pretty.
49:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I think just one last takeaway I have to the kind of relates to what you said in many ways.
50:01
[SPEAKER_01]: One is, you know, what why are you taking this break?
50:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it about you?
50:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And can you start to peel back the behavior a little because what we talked about with fear, I think that really resonates so much that fear is what is at the root of so much that drives us.
50:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you can look at, I'm doing this out of fear and identify what that fear is, then that's so much more powerful than just saying, oh, the apps are broken or I've anxious attachment or whatever it is.
50:33
[SPEAKER_01]: How can you make it actionable at the end of the day?
50:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how can you look at what it is that's truly driving you and learn how to get ahead of it and not be so scared?
50:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think when you're able to be fearless in, say, fuck it, like, I don't care if I am rejected or whatever, that's when your dating life starts to really make moves.
50:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so much of this really is hiding behind fear.
50:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And we often don't think about fear or we think about anxiety.
51:02
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, like anxiety is just leaning into the fear opposed to owning it and making it work for us.
51:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
51:09
[SPEAKER_04]: That's well put.
51:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I always say I've been using this analogy a lot lately, but kind of to sum up what you just said in a good way is to stop dating on autopilot, which a lot of chance that autopilot is in those very fear, anxious states, and to start taking control of the plane and being like, what's going on here?
51:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, how can I do things differently?
51:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Because often we'll just date date date date date, not be aware what's going on, not be aware what doesn't make us feel good.
51:34
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like taping that step back and
51:36
[SPEAKER_04]: healing back the layers like you said and getting off of autopilot.
51:40
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just the best thing you can do for yourself.
51:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
51:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We hear people taking breaks of day-day and just uninstalling the apps and then a month later, reinstalling them and then uninstalling, reinstalling.
51:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a big difference between taking up break to reflect and try new things versus a break to just repeat the same patterns.
51:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Right and like you guys said change the change us if you want change you have to create change and change feels uncomfortable So just because it's uncomfortable does not mean it's not the right thing to do Yes, embrace that discomfort so your book what I wish I knew about love where can people find it?
52:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it's on Amazon Uh my publisher is thought kind of log so it's sold on thought kind of log as well It's Apple books too.
52:24
[SPEAKER_04]: You can find in the link in my profiles on my social media.
52:27
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah
52:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to the Psychology of Relationships today, so you don't miss an episode.
52:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye!