Latest / The Kink Consultant / What Allows Us to Feel Safe in Relationships? Exploring Power, Kink, and Connection with Aubrey Aust

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What Allows Us to Feel Safe in Relationships? Exploring Power, Kink, and Connection with Aubrey Aust · The Kink Consultant

0:08
It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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to it. Hey everybody, welcome to this
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week's episode of The Kink Consultant.
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I am joined by Aubrey Aust and she is a Master's student at NYU
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working on a thesis on what creates safety in relationships
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and using BDSM and kink as one of the examples of how people
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are negotiating and communicating to create safety
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within their relationship. So once I heard this was the
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work she was doing, and although the thesis itself isn't totally
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focused on BDSM and kink, I immediately needed to have her
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on the podcast. So welcome, Aubrey.
0:56
Thank you so much, Amanda. It's such a pleasure to be here.
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Can you tell me a little bit more about your thesis and
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you're studying? I believe it's relational
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psychology. Relational psychology and
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philosophy, correct? Actually, my background, my
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formal background is in political theory.
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I was really fascinated by systems of power and how they
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shape our inner lives or longings or limits.
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I studied Arentian political theory and a lot of the works of
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Hannah Arendt, and so I was writing a lot about desire,
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control, intimacy, surveillance, how desire is constructed, and
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how societal factors contribute to that.
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I started to pivot into relational psychology when I
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came to the realization that the systems that we're navigating,
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of course, is a political aspect to that.
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But ultimately, at the end of the day, they're relational.
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And once I started getting more interested in how these systems
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live in the nervous system, in our attachment styles and the
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way we move toward or away from love or connection, I started to
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see the psychological aspect of that and wanted to bring it down
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from the macro level, the big political level, to more of the
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interpersonal relational level. Now I'm out NYU, pursuing my
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master's degree, where I'm ultimately studying what allows
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us to feel safe in relationships.
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That's the very simple question behind everything that I'm
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doing. And so I'm exploring that
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through frameworks like attachment theory, polyvagal
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theory, somatic psychology, and the ethics of care.
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What does it truly mean to care for someone?
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What's the morality behind that? And so I'm using BDSM in the
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kink world to see this as almost a relational laboratory because
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it externalizes what most relationships suppress in a lot
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of cases, Yes, power, vulnerability, the need to
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negotiate safety in real time. And so it's this incredible
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container for me to explore all of these topics in a really
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fascinating way. My mind is just like firing off
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1000 questions. The safety aspect in
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relationships, is that something that everyone needs to be aware
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of, right? Like I think on a subconscious
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level, we probably are. We know whether or not we feel
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safe in something, but do you think this is something that can
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be picked apart and explored for every couple?
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Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yes.
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And how do we do that, right. Specifically within the context
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of BDSM, you have a site where those relational dynamics are
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made visible and explicit, right.
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So that's what makes this such an interesting modality, because
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powers not assumed. It's negotiated.
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We don't imply consent. It's constructed and especially
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vulnerability, which is so huge to what I study.
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It's not hidden, but it's held. We're naming a lot of it in a
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lot of cases. So in most relationships, you
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know, just blanket term relationships, we aren't really
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naming those power dynamics at play.
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They still exist, but they're not brought to the forefront,
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right? And a lot of times we inherit
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those dynamics, we perform those dynamics, but we're not actively
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examining them. So when?
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We think look like when we're performing them but not
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examining them. Yeah, great question.
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It's our everyday scripts. It is what we have inherited.
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It's largely cultural. It is it can be so much of what
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we grow up with, what we've come to expect.
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And if that fits you, that is absolutely fantastic.
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Go with that. But there's also value to
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questioning, are these really serving me?
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Is this how I want to go about my life?
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Is this making me feel safe, held all the things that we want
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to feel relationally. And it's worth taking that step
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back, not necessarily in order to make change, but just to
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examine it for yourself. That's kind of heavy work.
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I very much specifically focus on kink and BDSM and it's it's a
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finite time, like even in 24/7 relationships.
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But this is about how you move in the world, even like what
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preconceived notions culturally you're taking through everyday
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life and how that's affecting your experience in partnership.
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And that's why the political theory background that I have
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really does contribute well to this because at the end of the
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day, there are so many societal factors at play in how how we
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desire, how we're allowed to love, and how we can move about
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the world, right? And so that's something that we
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can't ignore when we're talking about relational safety.
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So all of that kind of comes together in realizing, yes, we
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have autonomy and choice and we can make these decisions, but
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also consciously recognizing the factors that contribute to how
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we go about that. How can we get better at that?
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Great question, I'll tell you when I'm done with my thesis.
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Like can you just give me the answer of like how I can
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incorporate this in my life and go be better?
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It's, it is one that is ever unfolding and one that I'm
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trying to answer right now. It's the willingness to examine.
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And I think it comes down to that at the end of the day, that
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each and every one of us has things that we are hesitant to
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question because we are scared to know the answers.
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And our brains are neurologically wired to protect
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us. It's, it's a defense mechanism.
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And so we shouldn't fault ourselves for the things that we
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put in place to naturally protect ourselves.
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But it is, it's worth asking ourselves the question, is this
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protecting me or is this preventing me?
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And that doesn't mean, like I said, there have to be immediate
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changes to anything. It's just a worthy examination
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into your own personal life to see if the things that you're
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doing are ultimately serving you.
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I always say with kink, it starts with curiosity.
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When someone tells me, oh, my partner's not kinky.
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I'm like, well, are they curious?
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Because I'm a firm believer in everything, every aspect of my
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life. If I'm dealing with a curious
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person, it's going to go well. Right.
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I love that. So it sounds a lot like your
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willingness to inspect and ask questions, that's so much a part
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of this, too. So it's sort of the curiosity
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extends into this. I want to know, are there
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specific questions that I could start asking myself that would
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help me start to uncover it? Like, I mean, yeah, I'm
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definitely guilty of protecting myself from asking the questions
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that I might not want the answers to.
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The way I think that also presents, if I may share, is
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that I immediately put up a defense of I'm going to be be
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fine no matter what. So you be there and do your
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thing. And you're probably imagining
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this is an avoidant attachment style.
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I would love to get more into attachment styles because I have
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a lot of spicy thoughts on attachment style.
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I. But first of all, I want to tell
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you, you are not alone in this, that every single person has
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that experience of those internal questions of saying,
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what will this bring up for me? And we treat attachment styles
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like it is a clinical lifelong diagnosis and attachment styles,
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of course, yes. There's a huge part of how we
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are raised in early childhood that contributes to our lifelong
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attachment patterns and how we generally move about the world.
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It's great to recognize that. And it's important to know that
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attachment styles are not fixed. They can change over time and
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they change relationally. And so it's based on the people
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in your relational ecosystem constructing those fields of
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safety that either contribute to a world in which you feel like
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you can cultivate that safety or that make you feel unsafe.
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And so based on that, your attachment style can shift
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throughout your lifetime. So when it comes to, you know
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what, how do I start? How do I even start this form of
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inquiry, right? Because these are big scary
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questions. It's about asking what happens
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when people choose how they want to be held, they want to be LED,
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how they want to be surrendered to.
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And I'm talking in terms, of course, that would apply to BDSM
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dynamics, King Dynamics, but it can also apply to societal
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scripts at large. What happens when you name your
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needs? We can take this outside of
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kink, yeah, and just apply it to the day-to-day.
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And I like that because I like taking it outside of kink,
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because as soon as you put it into the kink context, I'm like,
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yes, I get it 100%. Relating it to the outside world
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should be so simple, right? Because I think once you get
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into kink, you see power exchange everywhere and you just
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start to focus on it. But yeah, I'm trying to think
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like, outside of the kink part of it.
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How does it apply? Because negotiations apply in
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every single relationship in your life, whether it's
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recognized or not. There's a power dynamic there.
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I hate to think of it that way, but it's true.
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And is confronting those tough realities, that's the first
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step. And when you're able to do so,
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then you can start thinking about, OK, considering the
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forces at play, how do we incorporate regulation, rupture,
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repair, mutual recognition, the things that you need to feel
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safe in those relationships. But in order to do so, we have
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to rethink what we mean in terms of freedom.
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What does trust mean to us? And from an attachment
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perspective, it can offer something really radical because
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when you have that awareness, it offers you this structured
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container where the body can feel safe.
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Even, you know, in kink, it can be the content of the experience
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is really intense. But that awareness, whether we
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are applying this to kink or to the larger picture, that's what
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makes that experience transformative.
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When you said the force is at play, right, I immediately went
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to external factors that society cares about as opposed to the
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internal ones. Like society cares about who has
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more money, who has the better job, who's better looking, those
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types of things. Are those some of the forces at
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play in terms of this, or is it more the emotional side of
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things? Absolutely.
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Both, yeah. And they are both so present and
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both so valid, and they're constantly intertwined and at
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play. And it depends on the
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individual, on the circumstances.
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We are all dealt a certain deck of cards at birthright.
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Yeah. And that largely influences how
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we move through the world. And so it's recognizing how that
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influences your day-to-day experience, but also realizing
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what it looks like to deal with that shadow self and coming to
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terms with the things that sometimes we don't want to talk
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to about ourselves, right? It's not something that can be
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forced. We aren't ready to ask those
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questions until we come to them ourselves.
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But it's once you, I love what you said about curiosity and
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that point of inquiry because I think that is so central to any
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type of play. But even if you're just going
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for self examination, that has to be at the center I.
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Love exploring and digging into the shadow self because that's
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where all the interesting stuff is.
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Not always the good stuff, but the outcome of exploring it is
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good. It's the shadow self.
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How much of that is making its way into your work, if any?
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Because it is sort of like a hokey science.
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Not science even. It's sort of like a hokey
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concept. Right.
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So oh, I am big on the young and shadow self and everything that
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we've disowned. You know, our hunger, our rage,
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our tenderness, our need. And so I think it largely plays
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into our need for safety because a lot of the things that we're
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scared to name are the things that we need the most.
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And so often it's looking at the parts of ourselves that are
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shamed, that are ignored or that are even punished in early
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relationships. And like you said, that can be
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incredibly difficult. And so it's the opportunity to
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invite those parts to come forward, not to take over, but
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just to be seen or expressed or related to.
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And that integration, it's not about winning or losing it, but
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it's about bringing those inner dynamics into the light, into
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that relational awareness. It's, it's not even about the
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ACT, it's the meaning underneath and knowing, can I still be
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desired here? Can I still be safe in this
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space? Can I still be loved?
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And so it's about providing language and structure to
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explore those questions. So I am largely dealing with
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concepts of the shadow self because I think it's such a
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pivotal role in how we go about even having the ability to name
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our needs. You just just said something
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about providing language, and I think that that is one of the
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biggest hurdles. It is one of the biggest
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blockers to people being able to do this work is language around
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feelings. It's not taught like you're
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taught the basic ones. So it's like, I'm sad, I'm
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happy, but to explain, I'm feeling like I'm not enough, and
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that's affecting my nervous system right now.
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Can you see me and tell me that everything's OK, right?
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No one taught me that sentence. Do you know what I mean?
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I pieced it together over time. I think the language piece of it
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is that's the part that I even struggle with, you know, and I
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know a lot of my clients struggle with the language is
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not something that your research is looking into, like how to
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communicate this through. We're talking specific words
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like. That's part of the issue.
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Yeah, that is such a fantastic point.
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And you're right, it's not something that's taught in our
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day-to-day because first of all, I am inspired by the growing
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awareness around on mental health in general, which I think
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is fantastic. Naming needs naming.
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What's going on? We often don't get past the I am
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happy, I am sad level right. Yeah.
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There's a lot that's still shoved down underneath.
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Part of my research is talking about trust built through
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conversation and what that looks like and what the body needs in
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order to feel safe and open up. Because oftentimes we process
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our emotions physically before we're able to do anything
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psychologically. When you feel like, you know,
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that clenching in your chest or your heart rate speed up or
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there's just a feeling that comes over you that you cannot
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pinpoint because logically you're saying, I don't, I can't
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really lock this down, but there's something in my body
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that I feel coming up that I can't ignore, right?
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That's, that's affect theory. That's how we are responding in
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response to someone else's nervous system.
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And so social baseline theory teaches us that we regulate
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ourselves based on our relational environment.
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We are relational creatures, right?
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So we naturally respond and regulate our nervous systems
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based on those in our relational environment.
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So when it comes to using that language to express it, of
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course it's going to be difficult.
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And we can't even name those emotions for ourselves, but
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we're just like, something feels kind of funky in my body.
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Yes, that's tough. That's challenging, right?
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And so there is a component of introspection to that of, hey,
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maybe I need to take a step back for myself, sit with myself, sit
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with this feeling for a moment and recognize what's coming up
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for me. And even if you can't name it in
14:47
that moment, can you feel? It and I don't want to minimize
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that feeling part right, right. I also think that's something
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that we learn. We are not taught to pay
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attention to our bodies in that way.
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It's like, yes, so the same way sad, happy, sick, good.
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Those are like the two things that you get.
15:04
I'm certified through Somatica, which is a sex relationship
15:06
coaching course. And it really opened up my world
15:09
into checking into your body. But like, that's why I
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personally could never take it for granted because I had to
15:14
learn it from a course. And now I work with my clients
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on it. And you're speaking about the
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same thing. And it's just to me, I'm like,
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let's not skip over how hard it is or how it's something that
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you also need to teach yourself similar to the creating your own
15:28
sentence about how you're feeling.
15:30
You need to think and figure out how to feel.
15:32
Where am I feeling in this? This in my body, which is such
15:35
an important question to ask. And that's why I'm like my PSA
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16:09
I love that you brought up somatics and somatic psychology
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because part of my research is also speaking with therapists
16:16
and saying what is coming up, especially in, you know, couples
16:19
counseling or for people who are exploring kink dynamics or
16:23
whatever. What tools are not out there in
16:25
terms of education that you feel like would be helpful?
16:28
What is missing in that context? And there is a huge gap right
16:32
now, especially in what I'm seeing in higher level education
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where we're not teaching somatics.
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And I think there is such a huge connection between mind and
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body, and I think noticing and acknowledging that integration
16:47
is absolutely essential to healing.
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So first of all, I'm making a push for more somatic psychology
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to be taught in therapeutic programs.
16:55
But it really does teach us that the body, it's not just the site
16:58
of experience, it's also where a lot of our history is stored and
17:01
how we hold these patterns of attachment, of trauma, of
17:04
relational adaptation in our posture, in our breath.
17:08
And so even, you know, as we just spoke about before we can
17:11
name exactly what has happened, the body has already explored it
17:15
and felt it. The body is a primary
17:17
participation participant in meaning making and we need to
17:19
figure out how we incorporate that into our communication and
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what it means for us to process emotions.
17:27
I recognize there's definitely a divorce between what's going on
17:30
in our mind and what's going on in our body.
17:32
Yeah. I do not know if that is a long
17:35
term survival instinct thing that as we evolved or is that
17:38
cultural norm now is to ignore your body.
17:41
It's becoming more of a cultural norm because we are being taught
17:45
that we require there to prioritize a lot of things
17:50
because, you know, hustle culture or repressing a lot of
17:53
parts of ourselves simply. Hating their body?
17:55
Yes. Being taught to hate your body.
17:57
100%. Specifically women, but now I
18:00
see it over the past few years moving into men as well.
18:04
I agree. And that divorce and disconnect
18:06
is only going to continue to rupture unless we bring greater
18:10
awareness to somatics and taking a somatic lens to how we're
18:14
processing emotions. And so I'm, I'm grateful I'm
18:16
seeing a trend that more therapists, especially this
18:20
newer way, newer generation of therapists have a greater
18:23
awareness of it and are starting to integrate it more.
18:25
But as far as, you know, like upper level curriculum and
18:28
stuff, there's still a place where we need to integrate it.
18:30
So it's about raising attention for that and making sure that it
18:34
does get into more therapeutic programs.
18:36
Totally. I think like that is the change
18:39
we need to see and be more aware of.
18:41
It's also hopeful because I feel like that's what you and I like.
18:44
If we're out here doing it and we know more people are out here
18:46
doing it, hopefully that change is coming.
18:49
It's difficult work. It is you.
18:51
Are you talking to anyone who does EMDR therapy?
18:54
Yes, I have been exploring EDMR therapist because that's also a
18:57
great way of integration and somatics and EMDR different
19:01
modalities, but same incorporating the physical.
19:04
And I really personally tend to go away from Cartesian dualism,
19:09
the idea that the mind and the body are separate and am in
19:12
favor of more integrated approaches to healing.
19:14
We talk about physical and emotional safety and so it it is
19:18
inspiring for me to see more methods like EMDR become
19:21
popularized and further integrated.
19:23
I've done EMDR therapy. It is the toughest therapy I've
19:27
ever done. It's intense.
19:29
If you explain to someone that you really barely talk about the
19:33
issue, you just think about it and move your eyes or tap in a
19:36
certain way and then change what you're thinking about, it sounds
19:40
like a simpleton game. It sounds like the kindergarten
19:42
game that you play. It is the farthest thing from it
19:46
it takes. It's like there's an emotional
19:48
hangover from it, but it works. It works and it's interesting
19:51
because I love what you said about that emotional hangover.
19:54
There's also that integration period afterwards, right?
19:56
It's it's almost like you need aftercare from that.
20:00
Exactly. Tense.
20:01
Yeah. Do you know?
20:01
Sometimes in the kink world, there's this argument about
20:03
whether or not you need aftercare, right?
20:06
And I ask a lot of people this question, whether or not it's
20:08
provided. I mean, that's up to certain
20:10
people whether they're willing to play with it or not.
20:12
But do you think that type of power exchange and then getting
20:17
back out of power exchange into equilibrium or whatever you want
20:20
to call it, do you think it requires aftercare?
20:23
I would encourage the person to center their own agency and
20:26
choice and if someone's adamant about no aftercare whatsoever,
20:29
you know, trust their voice on that.
20:31
I also think that there is a huge aspect of integrating the
20:34
experience, the power dynamics at play.
20:36
The aftercare is incredibly important and so I would be
20:40
curious word of the day as to why someone would be against
20:45
aftercare, but if that is part of their process, I think that's
20:48
also incredibly valid. Valid, but is it valid because I
20:53
used to be AI don't need aftercare person, but I think
20:55
that was from my work as a pro and I don't think that I didn't
20:59
need aftercare. I think that I was too focused
21:02
on I'm doing a job. I think that's why I'm so
21:05
curious about it now as someone who's like an I don't need
21:07
aftercare person to this is what I need now.
21:10
And what I need is I need you to be available to text me the next
21:13
day because I want to be able to, to reach out and know I'm
21:15
going to hear from you, right? If you can't facilitate that, I
21:18
can't play with you. So like, I'm aware of that now.
21:22
That wasn't really an option as a pro.
21:24
And because I wasn't just a pro Dom, I was also a pro sub, which
21:27
is I've talked about that different world, different
21:29
expectations, but it made me think I didn't need aftercare.
21:33
As I grow older, I'm realizing that was a mental block.
21:36
You're right, people should have agency to decide.
21:38
Like, I had agency to decide then, but it was that curiosity
21:42
piece is so important of like always curiously.
21:45
Yeah. Like, could aftercare make
21:48
things feel better? Does aftercare make things feel
21:50
worse? If so, why?
21:51
What's coming up, I mean? I wouldn't.
21:53
I'm not in a place to prescribe mandated aftercare for anything
21:59
based on the fundamentals of psychological safety.
22:02
You are. I mean, in BDSM you are creating
22:05
scenes where you are intentionally creating scenes of
22:08
potential rupture, right? And rupture and repair.
22:12
And so you need that psychological safety for the
22:14
system to revert back. Otherwise we'll go to its
22:17
adaptive survival strategies. I don't want to make any
22:20
overarching prescriptions on where, oh, someone denies
22:22
aftercare, they are going into survival mode.
22:24
No, but it can also be worth examining.
22:28
Is this just how my body has learned to protect itself?
22:31
And in negotiated power scenes, these ruptures, they can be
22:34
subtle, but it's still, it's even after the scene.
22:37
The task in that moment is not to pathologize any of this, but
22:41
to attune to it and to really reflect what do I actually need
22:46
in this moment versus what have I been prescribed to tell myself
22:50
that I need. And it's difficult because you
22:52
are the one who prescribed it to yourself.
22:55
Yeah, something that I'm learning as I get older is it's
22:59
no longer about learning, it's about unlearning, and that is
23:01
just as much work. Unlearning is everything because
23:05
what you're unlearning is the safety mechanisms that aren't
23:08
serving you, which is the foundation of your work.
23:11
Look at how full circle every sentence.
23:13
Becomes back. Yeah, it's a loop.
23:17
I guess on that point, who's doing it well, like what's the
23:21
poster child of couple or or an individual I guess who's feeling
23:26
safe in a relationship? Obviously we've talked about
23:28
attachment styles. There's the securely attached
23:31
person and I'm interested in the person who is able to move into
23:35
securely attached. Yes, the work they've done.
23:38
I know people who grew up in such an environment that they
23:40
just became securely attached. I cannot name a poster child for
23:45
secure attachment because at the end of the day, you know what
23:49
secure is for you, right? I can speak a lot to the
23:52
conditions that can get you there and would love to speak
23:55
more about attachment styles and all the goodness that goes into
23:57
that. At the end of the day, it's it's
23:59
about Co creating mutual safety. And so let's talk about what
24:02
that looks like in practice, right?
24:04
That means both people, regardless of their role, I'm
24:06
just talking relationally, are able to track their own
24:09
regulation and have an awareness of the others.
24:12
So this is an ongoing dialogue that may not be verbal.
24:15
There's also a physical and somatic component to this, but
24:18
it's constantly going on between nervous systems.
24:20
So in secure relational dynamics, and we can talk about
24:24
this in terms of well negotiated kink dynamics or in terms of any
24:28
relationship, right? It's mutual safety that's built
24:31
on attunement. There's adaptability and there's
24:34
shared responsibility. So one partner's containment is
24:37
never imposed without negotiation.
24:40
It's offered, it's checked and it's received.
24:42
And So what does this look like when we play it out?
24:44
This means asking questions like, are we In Sync?
24:48
Is this serving both of us? And what do you need from me
24:50
right now? And you can get to a point,
24:52
especially negotiated dynamics, where for example, the Dom
24:55
learns the needs of the sub and is able to anticipate that and
24:59
push the limits to that edge. And another part of this, based
25:02
on the conversation that we just had, it means building those
25:05
rituals of return. So this can either be an
25:07
aftercare and integration in time to reflect, to name what
25:11
comes up. Because The funny thing about
25:12
memory, and this trips me up all the time, is when we remember
25:15
things, we are not remembering the event itself, rather the
25:18
last time we remembered it. Oh.
25:20
Yeah. So that is colored by all of
25:23
your experiences, by your feelings, by everything you have
25:26
integrated in the time from when the original event happen to the
25:30
time that you last remembered it.
25:31
And we're constantly building on that memory cycle.
25:34
And naturally that is going to bring up more emotions, A lot of
25:38
really crunchy things that we have to work through, right?
25:41
And so sometimes taking that space to reflect is absolutely
25:44
necessary because you might have something brought up for you
25:47
that wasn't at all there in the moment it happened.
25:49
But it's something that came up through the processing.
25:52
It's dialogical ethics. It's our sense of self is not
25:55
static, but Co created. And so This is why attachment
25:58
security are so important, because when we are remaining an
26:02
ethical relationship to another's experience, the safety
26:05
that emerges, it's not passive, but it's dynamic.
26:08
Oh, my goodness. I'm like having such light bulb
26:11
moments or just I'm having a reaction in my body to all of
26:15
this because it's. Yeah, it's very affirming when
26:19
you think like, as you're saying.
26:20
And I'm like, yeah, I definitely have.
26:22
And I would say it's a core memory that has informed how I
26:25
feel about my life and my body, specifically my body.
26:28
Every time someone says something, it just attaches
26:31
itself to that core memory. When I was six years old, my mom
26:34
told me to not eat in front of my dad because he thought I was
26:36
putting on weight. And I think she said fat.
26:38
I remember where I was definitely core memory.
26:40
I'm very close with my mom. It's like I've talked to her
26:43
about it, but I remember that's when I became aware of my body
26:46
and I was six years old. I did not feel good about myself
26:49
because I didn't know to be aware of my body until this
26:52
moment. And that's not the best way to
26:53
become aware. Now.
26:55
It is one of the biggest triggers.
26:57
No one can say anything to me about my weight at all or it
27:02
derails everything and I get emotional talking about it
27:06
because I've put thousands of dollars, multiple therapy types
27:10
into trying to get over it. And then someone can say
27:13
something. And it's partially what led to
27:16
the end of my last relationship was a comment about my body that
27:21
I just couldn't get past. And it brings up, well, why did
27:23
the person feel the need to talk about my body?
27:26
All of this is to say you talking about it's not just that
27:29
one memory from when I was six years old.
27:31
It's every time someone says something, it's like I get a
27:34
push pin and I'm like, let me add that to that memory.
27:37
So now I have this Pinterest board of pain.
27:40
Then I have created an Amplified and the way you put that just
27:45
really stuck with me right now because that memory is like
27:48
you're actually remembering the last time you thought about it.
27:50
When I tie it to the fact that and I'm only thinking about it
27:53
when I'm in pain, I put my hands over my face because I felt like
27:56
the need to hide from myself in that moment.
27:58
Thank you for listening to that. Story and thank you for sharing
28:02
that. Yeah, I and the only reflection
28:05
I have to that is you are not alone.
28:07
We all have our Pinterest boards of pain.
28:09
I love, I would love to coin that.
28:11
You got to coin that. That's a fantastic phrase.
28:14
And we all have our triggers and the things that we circle back
28:17
to, and they stick with us. Yeah, they stick with us.
28:21
And it's about acknowledging the presence that those memories
28:24
have in our lives, that the grief that we sometimes have
28:28
over those experiences, and recognizing that grief in and of
28:31
itself as an attachment event. As in, it's an attachment event
28:34
that we attach to any type of grief.
28:38
Yeah, I really to that for sure. Also, I think I should keep it
28:41
in because I think it's a good example of exactly what you're
28:44
saying. Of course, I think anyone who is
28:47
socialized as a woman can experience resonate with body
28:52
image issues. I know I absolutely struggle
28:54
with body image growing up and have my Pinterest board of pain
28:58
of memories of, you know, specific events and it can even
29:01
be things of family members who I dearly love who have made
29:05
comments that were incredibly hurtful to me.
29:07
And like like you said, you're mom did probably did not have
29:11
bad intentions. Something that I always try to
29:13
keep in mind in terms of parents is this is their first time
29:16
moving through the world as humans too.
29:18
And I'm. The eldest, like she was younger
29:20
than me when she said that sentence.
29:22
Do you know what I mean? So.
29:24
And we have to recognize that our parents are given a certain
29:28
toolkit. No one has the exact rule book
29:32
on how to raise kids. And it's, you know, you, you
29:35
work with what you got. But also, there's so much power
29:38
to acknowledging those memories and how they've shaped you.
29:41
And something that I've experienced growing up, finding
29:45
comfortability within myself is recognizing those experiences in
29:50
my youth and finally admitting that they were hurtful because I
29:53
am so quick to brush things off and say, Oh no, I'm fine, that
29:57
that didn't get to me, that doesn't hurt.
29:58
And trying to put up this wall of self protection.
30:01
So for me, a lot of my work that I'm going through is admitting
30:05
to those crunchy spots and vulnerability is so difficult.
30:09
And it's also a superpower. And so I think when you're able
30:12
to tap into that and expose those parts of yourself that I
30:15
know I try to hide for so, so long, there can be an incredible
30:19
release in that. And it is empowering to face
30:21
them. Most recently, someone I'm
30:22
dating saw an old photo of me and again, probably just didn't
30:26
understand it, mentioned how I was skinnier back then and used
30:30
the words like the skinnier word itself, which is triggering.
30:34
So I had my day of like really going through it.
30:36
But then I addressed it head on in a very way of like, hey, let
30:39
me explain how that made me feel and then try not to do that
30:42
again. And I felt that was me feeling
30:45
empowered. So although it was a painful
30:47
day, I have been feeling better about my handle on it, sort of
30:51
like the work I've been doing is paying off because I worked
30:55
through it with someone else and then moved past it.
30:58
But it's also, I want to call out that it's not totally
31:03
without consequence because I also immediately lost 5 lbs
31:07
based on that. So it's sort of like a, it's a
31:09
mixed bag and progress I think looks different and the progress
31:13
that I hope to make 10 years from now in this, I hope to
31:15
continue to grow on it. Your awareness through all this
31:17
is really beautiful, so thank you so much for sharing it, OK.
31:20
You should be a coach or like, is that the goal to be a would
31:25
you be a therapist? Would that?
31:26
I so my path is interesting because I am not going for
31:30
licensure. I want to be on the theory,
31:33
writing, speaking side of all of this.
31:35
So I'm going to actually this, you're the first to hear about
31:39
this. This summer I am going to start
31:40
trainings on relational intelligence 101, trauma
31:44
informed communication and the ethics of care.
31:46
And I want to connect with nonprofits, with organizations,
31:49
starting the conversation on how are we caring for ourselves and
31:53
others in this current climate. Love that.
31:56
That's sounds like it couldn't come at a better time.
31:59
There's certainly been a push for it, which I'm excited about,
32:02
yeah. Yeah, that's really exciting and
32:04
I can't wait to hear more about that when you're ready to launch
32:07
and go out there. Coming soon, I'm excited about
32:09
it. If people wanted to find you,
32:12
where can we find you, Aubrey? The best way to stay in touch
32:15
with all the updates? Subscribe to my newsletter.
32:17
My website www.aubreyaus.com/newsletter If
32:21
you want to subscribe to my monthly newsletter, I'm also on
32:24
Instagram at Aubrey Double under score Aust.
32:27
Find me on LinkedIn. I post updates on that.
32:29
But as my research unfolds, I'm continually using those little
32:33
corners of the web as my digital library.
32:35
So if you're interested in this and would like to stay up to
32:39
date, please stop by say hi. I'd love for more people to join
32:42
me on this journey. Awesome.
32:44
I will definitely be signing up for your newsletter because I
32:46
want to follow along. Aubrey, it has been such a
32:49
pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
32:51
Thank you for you held space for me.
32:53
I know you came here, but I've really enjoyed our conversation.
32:57
I had did as well. Thank you so much for having me,
32:59
truly. I followed your content for so
33:01
long and just an absolute dream to be here.
33:03
So looking forward to staying in touch.
33:05
I'm glad we were able to connect.
33:07
And when is the thesis coming out?
33:09
Like, is this something that will eventually make its way
33:11
onto your website, into a newsletter?
33:14
Like an attachment to the thesis, I mean.
33:16
Yeah, I'll give you the dream. Thesis will be published in
33:20
spring of 2026 and then hopefully we are looking towards
33:24
a book in the near near future. Well, we will definitely have to
33:28
have you back on then. I can't wait.
33:30
I will definitely read the thesis.
33:31
Thank you so much, Aubrey. Thank you so much for having me.
33:36
If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
33:38
a review and share it with anyone who might find it
33:41
interesting. And if you have any questions or
33:43
topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, feel free to
33:45
reach out e-mail info@thekingconsultant.com.
33:49
Until next time, keep on kinking on.