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Claudette Atkinson - Why Distribution Keeps Reinventing and Thriving · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries about partnerships, and channel on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My name is Alex Whitford, I'm the VP of Revenue here at Chanix and this week I'm very excited to welcome our special guest, claudette.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: How are you doing?
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm doing well, alex.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm doing extremely well.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe, if that initiates that you give us a little bit of an introduction about who you are and what you do, okay.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: So, claudette Atkinson, I've done a number of things really.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm an industry veteran.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I guess you would call me.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I look a lot older than I should suppose, having been in the channel that long.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: But you know, I've worked in distribution.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: So I've managed business units in distribution.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I've worked at Partner.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: I've worked at various vendors, including IBM, I've worked at Cisco and I've worked at Palo Alto Network.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: So you might say I've been around the block a little bit.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: And some hell of a names in there as well.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I know you've been part of some huge transformation, but more importantly, you're part of my favorite area of the channel, which is distribution, which I love.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Distribution.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's at the coalface, while being the most strategic, while being the fastest, while being the most complicated, and the best people are there exactly exactly so.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: One of the things I find really interesting and I've done this myself, negotiated internally, but I've also negotiated on this podcast um, hey, distribution's about to die, like there's no way it's gonna make it, and then three months later, it's like oh, maybe distribution is the core of the channel.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: How do you think and why do you think distribution continues to thrive even though everyone's predicting its death?
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I think I've been around long enough for every one of those moments where somebody said this is the thing that's going to kill distribution.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I think for me and as I said, I've worked in and around distribution for a long time that distribution does well is reinvention, right.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: They figure out very quickly where their role can be.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: So if something new comes out, I think one of the things that you know many people are talking about now is the role of the CSP, right, the AWS, the GCPs of this world, and how that affects how business goes through channel and I've seen really good examples of distributors making acquisitions.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: That allows them to operate and to kind of mitigate any impact to their business.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: So I think, creativity they are incredibly good at being the band-aid, I think, over, you know, the vendors, businesses in some way, but finding the gaps it's like, you know, water always finds the exit.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I kind of feel like distribution is they find that point where they can add the value and they reinvent themselves to do that.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So I think they've been doing it for years, right?
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: So it's just something you know really cool to watch that you know it may be presented as a problem.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: It may be presented as something that you would see a threat to their business, but they are always managing to create this level of reinvention yeah, I am.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I have a mentor of mine.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I was a running joke on this podcast but I hate the word strategy.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I think strategy is that is a nonsense term that can be used when they're really they're just talking about how do we do things properly, um, but a mentor of mine just says strategy is customer feedback executed and I think distribution is uniquely placed because they get feedback from everyone.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: So they get to hard pivot because suddenly you know the vendor says hey, we need this, or the partner says, or their competitor or whatever, and so they have to actually chase and drive that value.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: No, I agree, I agree, and I think the other thing that they have is data, and many of them use it well to create the opportunities and to find out where those opportunities are, because it's not like you know 30 years ago that the deal might land in your lap and all you've got to do is quote it at 30 percent margin.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: You know they're fighting for every piece of it and they have to be creative.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: So I think it's, you know, testament to what they do being able to use the data that they gather to create opportunity both for the vendor, the partner, and even some of the distys are working with end users to do that.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: So you know, creativity is definitely part of it, using the data that they have.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: So you've worked your way through the whole channel stack so disty vendor reseller.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about how, having that that I suppose 360 view has influenced how you sort of build strategy?
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: that's a really good question because I think, um, for me, empathy runs through it, right, because if you've been in someone's shoes, you kind of understand what impact the next decision that you're going to make will have.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Right Now you may still make it, but at least you might make some kind of like adjustments based on how does this particular thing that I want to do look if I'm a partner?
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: How does it look if I'm a distributor?
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Right, and I think having that view allows you to make better decisions.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: That is less impactful in a negative way on the channel.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So that's how I use it.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I you know, sometimes there's days you're like, oh, I must do this thing and I'm sitting there.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: I go.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: No, sit back a little bit.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: If you're sitting in distribution, if you were a vendor manager, you're a key count manager sitting in distribution.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: How do you receive this and what's in it for me?
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: So kind of having that constant thought of what each other's experience could be is something I think that that helps me do yeah, I was.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Uh, I was talking to a chap by the name of dan daniele best name in the channel also.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: He runs a distribution strategy.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I know him yeah, really good guy, um and he was talking about the power of lateral moves and he was saying like it's great if you can work the left and right in the channel.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: That's how you move up because of that empathy right yes I think everyone is that and if you're at a dista, you've got a vendor, that's easy.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: You've been the reseller lands, easy.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: And then, once you've been there, you're like, okay, they're just, they're just different yeah, and and that whole piece.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I remember having this conversation with um, an account manager at a company, one of the vendors that I worked at, and he had been an account manager and a very aggressive or I should say passion passion account manager and he moved to do the channel role after he'd been doing the account manager and I remember speaking to him afterwards about it.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I said, oh, how are you getting on in that channel role?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: He said it's the hardest job I've ever done and I think what it reminded me of this phrase my dad always used to use you know, walk a mile in someone's shoes, right, so that you experience and understand.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: And I think you know.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: that's definitely what I feel gives me a unique view in terms of saying, or being able to have a conversation with a distributor and saying you know what I get it, I understand because I've been there right I'm constantly on this podcast pioneering or calling out that I think marketing in the channel is underrepresented, uh, under loved, because I think there's a huge value there and sort of marketing and distribution maybe that's that times 10, because I think, yeah, people talk about distribution strategy and it's partner acquisition how do we sell more?
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: And they sort of forget that marketing is there to sort of drive that behavior.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: What's your view on how the channel views marketing and distribution and those two worlds coming together?
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I think that most vendors expect it.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Not sure that all vendors pay enough for it.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Right, that's what I would say and what I see in our distributors in terms of marketing is just innovation, right Every time, because you can't keep paying and doing the same things every quarter.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: That whole adage of knocking your head against the brick wall right, you know, it's kind of like.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: You need to kind of like create and reinvent, and I'm astounded a lot of the times that some of the programs and the things that our guys put together I think you're right they're not necessarily seen and given the credibility and um accolades that they should get.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: But I see some really good stuff coming out of many of our distributors and things I think we wouldn't necessarily think about.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're very focused, as when you're in a vendor, you're very focused on, perhaps, the end user piece right, and we want our distributors to provide scale because we don't have limitless people to handle every partner.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: So you want your distribution piece to be scaling and to be able to do that in a meaningful way and actually doing that using data marketing campaigns, whether it's LinkedIn or it's, you know, whatever they're doing to build pipeline is really credible In some cases I see it better than some people who you know been in the industry who think that they know everything around marketing.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Some of the things I see coming from some of the really young people in some of our distributors is incredibly creative.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more and I think that's one of the interesting things about distribution.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Average age of the talent distribution is different.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: It's significantly younger, which comes with definitely some upsides and some challenges.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: One of the really tough things I think, having managed distribution teams and then managed distributors is retention.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: The really great people is tough, because I did and I know a lot of people who work in distribution.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: They go perfect.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to work my way up and I'm going to jump to a vendor and double my salary.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's the goal, which puts disties in a hard position.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: They don't make the margin that a vendor does Right, and yet they've got to maintain structure and performance and cadence.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: How do you think they go about doing that?
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends on the distributor.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: What I've maybe what I'll talk about is what I've seen.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: That is good.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, you know some of the distys that I've worked have created academies so they're bringing in young blood all of the time, continually training that and accepting that there is that piece at the top that when they've done three years they might end up going to to a vendor right now.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: You know I've always had this rule that I don't go and poach from distribution right wherever I've worked.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: But ultimately those people are still going to want to come to you and it might be the next step of their career.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: But I think this constant feed of talent, I think, um, creating the right culture in the company so that you know people want to stay around for a little bit, and generally I see the culture in distribution is tends to be a bit more fun, tends to be a bit more family-like in some ways.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So I think, if they get that right, but they keep this continual talent coming through and maybe partnering I've seen some good partnering with, you know, apprentices.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I know one of our Disney takes in apprentices and trains them up and you know I've seen many success stories of those.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: But I think it's a constant thing.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's any one thing.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: They've just got to keep it moving.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Make sure you've got you've got good, good leaders looking after those people so they want to hang around.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've seen disney's who've got people working there for 16, 17 years, so you know it can be done.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: But you're right, there is this pressure to keep moving in order to sort of like you know, the younger ones or people who feel that the vendor is the next step just to make sure that you've got backfill coming in to keep that constant.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm a big lean in person, so I think the right way and it sounds like we've landed on the same conclusion you can either try and avoid it, yeah, and shout at the vendor for taking you people, or I actually think the right way is lean in and go.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: It's probably a good thing if we create this academy of talent yes, that loves our company.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: That then goes to work for the vendors exactly.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: That's a good thing, right, taxate which are not distrib, so they're a distributor, um, but what they've done brilliantly is they bring talent in and then those talent leaves to manage to manage their business.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's perfect, right, because then they understand all the nuances and the culture and the people and the structure and I just sort of go.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: That's the right way to do this yeah, it's genius in a way, because ultimately you're building a fan base within the vendor right.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we all know right that distribution leaders have an ability to.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: while they can't direct individual deals nor should they they can course correct right, they can prioritize certain initiatives and over a long enough time horizon that can make a wonderful difference, yeah, but also I mean the other thing for me is many of the distributors that I've dealt with over the years are developing such amazing services right that you know if you've got somebody within the vendor who understands that and how you can leverage that to do more of the vendor's business.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Guess what?
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: That business is coming to you right.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: So you, that understanding and having by someone there is important.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: So one.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons everyone's calling the death knell of distribution is because service providers exist and managed service providers exist, and so obviously that means this day is dead, except distribution are turning into service providers.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: How do you see those sort of worlds coming together and how, again, distribution has made another what I think is amazing pivot to support that go tomorrow interestingly well, like with service providers.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Is it a threat to this team?
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Maybe not.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I think what they've got to do is understand what role they have to play within a service provider.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Right, because generally there are different types of or parts of their business that the disty can support.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: But generally I think, with the vendors that I've dealt with, the SP business is still going through the channel.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I think the CSPs slightly different, because obviously you know you've got this whole new scenario of quota that needs to be pulled down and you know people have made these commitments to the AWS and GCPs of this world.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: That is a threat for our distributors and they recognize that.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: But I think what I've seen is that people have started to go rather than going.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: The sky is falling.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: The sky is falling.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: It's like, okay, how do I mitigate this and how do I put myself in a better position to be able to defend my business?
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Now, you're not always going to be defending everything, but there are deals that sometimes go direct.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Right, that's just life.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: But how do you build your value so much so that if I've got a choice in how I'm going to go to market or who I'm going to deal with that.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I see value in using you and having you in that piece.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the conversations that I always have with the distributors that I speak to is what is your value proposition?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: What is the thing that for me, if I'm a customer, I've got this easy route over here that's got one person in between me and the vendor, or a route over here that also puts a vendor is, tell me why I've got that extra person.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Help me understand what the value is to my business, what I'm missing out on if I don't go that route.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: And you know that could be lifecycle services, it could be migration services.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: You know there's all sorts of things that the distilleries are doing now that can bring value to that change, but they have to start talking about it and letting those customers know what that value piece is, and so maybe moving ahead, then I think everyone's been causing calling out how distribution should have died or will die or could die, and I think we both firmly agree never going to happen.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: My personal opinion as we transition into AI, people who have the most data will win.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, I agree with that.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about where you think the innovation over the next three to five years is now I think it's exactly that right you're seeing um.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: You know, I think we're all on a.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I think everybody's a slightly different journey depending on how much time you've got on ai right.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: There's some people who are just using chat, gpt.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: There are some that are using perplexity, claude, all these other things that you can pull into your arsenal to make your life more productive and get to market quicker.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: But what I see is exactly that that AI move to integrate into processes that you know might take three people to do.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: It's not getting rid of a job.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: You can now employ three people to maybe be a bit more focused on business development and finding white space, etc.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: So I think that you're right ai and data for me, with our disties, is they've got so much of it and I think in some cases it's better quality than some of what the vendor might have, right.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: So, um, I think definitely those two things are going to play a key part as we move forward um, and I'm really excited to see what they do with it, because some of some of them, I think, already on a long way on that journey about what their plan looks like and how it will kind of appear on market or how it will be, you know, put out to market, um, and some others are at the beginning of that journey, but I think, like I said at the very beginning, reinvention is the key right, and that's what artistes do well.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: So they kind of see these things and they have to adjust and, as you said, you know you maybe have to change direction a little bit, you maybe have to do things slightly different, but you've got to embrace all these new things to make you better to the market awesome.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Well, claudette.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Just like I think vendors should leverage distribution data, I'm going to leverage some of your data.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: We always ask our current guests to recommend our next guest.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: That's a good one.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Let me think One person who I'm admiring their energy at the moment is a guy called Rob Tomlin.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Rob works for a distributor called Exclusive Networks and he is the recently promoted, actually, but he's the VP of Northern Europe.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: So I think he would be a really cool guy to have a chat with and he's also fun, amazing, claudette thank you so much for coming on and excited to get Rob on soon.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: No problem, thank you.