Latest / Being Different Together / #31 - Being in the Trenches Without Going to War With Yourself

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#31 - Being in the Trenches Without Going to War With Yourself · Being Different Together

0:08
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: In fact, we welcome them.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: This isn't about being right.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: It's about being different together.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello everyone.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to episode number 31 of being different.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Together.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Here we are being different.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: We're being different.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Together.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Man, it's a rainy morning here.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: It's a really rainy morning.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful Tampa Bay.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: It's not raining at the moment, but it's overcast.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: It rained a little bit.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: It's a nice way to start today.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: There's a specific color that the house gets when it's rainy outside in the morning that I really love.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: It's a very Florida color.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: I've never been in an in another state where it looks quite like this inside of a house when it's rainy.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: I think it has to do with how green it is here.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: It's so green outside.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: I wonder maybe in other tropical places if you go inside.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it it's a similar kind of vibe.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: But it definitely reminds me of a uh rainy summer morning.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Because in fact it is a rainy summer morning.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, you know what?
1:57
SPEAKER_02: It is.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so nice.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: And here we are getting ready to have deep talks with each other.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Deep talks.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Kitchen table talking.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, this week I proposed I submitted a proposal to talk about this topic.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: I submitted a proposal.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: I brought it up while we were making dinner last night.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: I remember it coming up earlier than that.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: You do?
2:31
SPEAKER_02: I think so.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: I think so.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Um maybe it's just because this has been one of those weeks that's so so busy that it feels like it's going by kind of like in slow motion.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
2:45
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that is indicative to the uh the topic at hand.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: Um which I would simply put as being in the trenches.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Being in the trenches?
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Being in the trenches.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Yep, being in the trenches.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: So now I've been thinking about that.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Because I my immediate thought was, okay, well, there's the trenches in life that happen because Well, what's a trench?
3:16
SPEAKER_01: When they say being in the trench, what they're talking about is we're during wartime people dig a trench and all the soldiers get in the trench.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's so like you're kind of underground.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: It's a fun place to be.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Symbolically, though, it's a really cool image because you dig yourself in in kind of in the street.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: You dig yourself out.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're dug in, you're you're you're focused now, you're gonna you know, fight.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: But you're also kind of like hiding.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: You're just hiding and popping out and fighting.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I wonder what the actual like strategy is with that.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: I wonder if it's like a you're waiting.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: I th I feel like there's like a waiting part of it.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: That you're you're sort of like waiting for a time to pass for when you can take action.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Um I also think you're you're hiding.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: And you're hiding, yeah.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: You're definitely hiding.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I've seen all those.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a war historian, but I just kind of get the general idea.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: I just think of all quiet on the Western Front.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, were they in fr see this is where I get into war history and I know nothing.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: I I mean, I just don't know what was the Western Front, why why is a trench involved?
4:21
SPEAKER_01: I know about trenches from World War I is what I think about.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, like lots and lots of soldiers down in a muddy trench and they're throwing chemical weapons at them and they're in gas masks and they're popping out of the trench in order to hand-to-hand combat against people who are attacking the trench, and it's kind of like you build this trench, and that trench becomes sort of like this line in the battle.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: It does.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Which is the battlefront.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: And then you're fighting over that territory.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: And we have our trenches on our side, and you have your trenches on your side, and we're just trying to make this progress across this battlefield.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of my understanding of the trench.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, when you're down in there, let's start with this.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: No fucking fun.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, it's no fun.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: And um, you might not even be sure if you're gonna get out alive.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, so for me, being in the tr why I brought this up is I feel like right now we're a little bit in the trenches.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Because there's a lot going on in this house.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: And uh if you've been f if you I mean if you've been following us.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: Not exactly existentially threatening, but but close.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: But I think that it it relates because the as I've been explaining to my clients, like not only are we going through this home edition that has now turned into now stuff is being done inside the house, and this is also snowballed into, which we did choose to get the flooring redone, which also means so many things are getting moved around, and like a room that normally has stuff in it has been emptied out.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: There's stuff in the living room that's not normally there.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty much pretty much a constant task list of things.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: There is a bicycle in the living room.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: It's like a constant task list of things we need to go through or clean out or reorganize.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about painting this weekend, and so um, but all so all of this is going on while simultaneously our lives are continuing to do what they do, which means sometimes there are other things like like your car battery.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: Yesterday we go to move Kelly's car from behind my car because of course we can only use one half of our driveway right now because there's a big dumpster on the other half.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: So she parked behind me because she was the last one in, and then I go to move her car so that I could go see my client, and I cannot move I cannot move her car.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: It will not start.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: And so and I mean, and you know, in that turn of time.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: The the car being in the middle of the road, which is easy to put it in neutral and get it down the driveway, but to then get it back up the driveway.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: It's also a hundred degrees that day.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: I'm in my work clothes.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, so that was just like all you have to do is step out of the front door and be drenched in sweat right now in Florida.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: So this hard.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, it's not terrible, right?
7:26
SPEAKER_02: We're still like cooking dinner and sleeping and all the thing.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: It's not essential threat.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: I think it it falls into the category though of like there are some trenches that like sometimes the universe throws a cosmic rock at you and it's not something that you invited.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: Like someone in your family gets sick, or you have to recover from an addiction, or you get in a terrible accident, or you know, like things happen that are outside your control.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: The country goes to war, for example, or you know, they're it like the bad you know, a natural disaster.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Like the people in like the people in Venezuela right now, like the last thing the people in Venezuela right now are thinking about is you know an addition on their head.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: They don't even have a house.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: So when I think about trenches, I think about a couple of different categories, you know, like one is like this, you know, when when tragedy really existential tragedy befalls, and it's like your whole routine is blown, and you're just in survival.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: How do you you know, getting through something like that?
8:19
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about that.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: And then I was thinking about well, about the trenches that what's more relevant at in it right now, because I'm not surviving a hurricane, to me, what I started thinking about was the trenches I put myself in.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, and we did choose to do this edition.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: We chose it.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: We we did choose it.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: Now here's the point that I uh I just want to bring up why I why I wanted to bring up trenches, besides the p point that it's on my mind, but it I didn't really think about things in terms of this um as much as I do now until a couple years ago when a teacher of mine pointed out that when and I mean those of you that have worked with me know that I really like um time management, productivity, all of these sorts of strategies, not in the like let me kill myself to you know be more productive.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: But I have never met anyone as passionate about time management.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: Nerd alert.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: Well the thing is for for me with the with the time management thing, it's like you only get one life, and it's like what is really important to you?
9:32
SPEAKER_02: What is really important to me, and how can I make sure that I create time for that?
9:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, time is a non-renewable resource.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Once today is done, today is done.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: Now, that could easily get someone to some sort of fanaticism.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: And so to guard against that, this whole trenches lesson for me has been really important.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: And what it's Do you mean you you think you see that you could be a little fanatical about time management?
10:00
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Is that your confession?
10:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, I gathered.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that that's news to anyone.
10:10
SPEAKER_02: Um I think that I've let go of a lot of that because of this lesson about I swear to God, I thought you were gonna say because of being married to you.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: No.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: Because of this lesson about these trent the trenches.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: And so once I understood that, like, hey, you know what?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes in your life, you're gonna be in the trenches.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: And it could be an addition, it could be a hurricane, it could be you're sick, it could be your spouse is sick, it could be you gotta take your dog to the vet today, and all that shit on your list is not gonna happen.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, and recognizing that and being able to it, I I guess what I'm trying to say is that being able to recognize the times in which I am in the trenches has really helped me to not beat myself up when I'm not moving towards my goals.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: Like I love goals, I love goal setting.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the reasons for me that we are continuing on with this podcast, or at least that I'm continuing to show up and get these edited and uploaded, is one of my only goals for this year, knowing that we were going into this edition, was to publish 50 episodes.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm just like staying, you know, true to that and clear on that.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: And so I guess this whole being in the trenches thing just makes me think of yeah, just letting myself off the hook a little bit.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Like when it's a time that shit is hitting the fan, how about I just make sure I drink enough water today and eat some good food and get some good sleep.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: And like, and that's more than enough.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: And so yeah.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: So that's my understanding of trenches and being in the trenches and why it's important to recognize that.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: You want me to say something now?
12:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: I that I just wanted to make that point before we moved into the approaches.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we don't.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: I I'm happy to sit at that point as long as you'd like.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Is there more you want to say about it?
12:31
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm good.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I think if I'm listening to you and understanding what you if I were to grok it, what what I think you're saying is that you're very passionate about time management.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: That's really important to you.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that you learned along the way is that part of how you can um add to your own suffering is by adding pressure to yourself about your tasks when other things have arisen that actually are it have higher priority.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: Even if they were they were no they were nowhere, they nowhere appeared on any sort of list that I made or I had no idea that they were coming.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's like there's always the other duck.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, you get all your ducks in the row, and then there's oh there's the other duck.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: The damn wandering ducks.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's there will be wandering ducks.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is kind of part of anything, right?
13:24
SPEAKER_01: Samsara is I understand it, the world is not perfect.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: So it's never gonna line up.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: It will actually never according to Buddhism, it will actually never satisfy, no matter how much you try to make it perfect, no matter how much you try to optimize it, it will always in some way fail you.
13:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, it's it's like for me, I think what I get into is kind of peeling back the layers philosophically um to explore um you know some of these things in a way that I that that for me is just a uh I just think I have a different angle on it than than what's interesting to you about it.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm also interested in maximizing my time and I share your uh realization that we have one life to live that we remember at a time.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Unless we're illumined beings.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: In which case maybe that changes, but I don't really know um in this moment.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: I can't say for certain.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: That's a mystery to me.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: So I I agree.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: And it's really in keeping with my Zen training to to be as present as I can and do everything that I can with my fullest sense of self.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: And um and also, you know, that that I that there's this piece of wanting to um live in keeping with my uh in keeping with my values particularly.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Um I think that you know what I started thinking about was just some other things, if you want to go ahead and talk about that.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: But I didn't know if you it sounds like maybe you had a lot more to say about all of that.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: No, I just wanted to I just wanted to share why I was bringing up the trenches and why that wh why that's been helpful for me.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: Why I feel like that's a helpful thing to bring up for our listeners.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think that you've got some interesting things you Yeah, well, I mean I think it's I think it's our I think it's a pattern, right?
15:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've fallen on something that it's like it happens to everyone.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: What's the saying?
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Rain falls on the just and the unjust.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of things.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: No matter what, you never you never meet a per I never, I mean, people love I don't know, I think I just have an open face or whatever.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, but people tell me their stories all the time.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Random people will just start talking to me about their lives.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: And um everyone has a story, and it usually involves loss and trials and tribulations and gains and celebrations and tragedies and um like any of those.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, moments of heroism and every hum it seems to me that every human life is full of those stories.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: So we're we're you know, we're in the trenches, we're out of the trenches.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: We're you know, we're underwater, we're above the water.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: We're you know, it's like this is part of what it is to be human, I think.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, we can't predict that they're going to happen, but we know that they're going to happen, if that makes sense.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, right.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you're gonna sometimes there are obvious trenches, right?
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Like you're I mean, chronic illness, for example, or um caring for a sick parent or a sick child or a sick spouse, or yeah, or like you have a newborn.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: You have a newborn, right, exactly.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: Which again, you know, you probably chose, maybe.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: Right.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: Um and and it's something that you might be really happy about.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: And then also is hard.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, right, and that's where like the voluntary voluntary quote, I'm using air quotes because you know, maybe everything that happens to us we're involved in in some way, but um, you know, like this kind of uh idea of I'll finally be okay, or this is I, you know, this is what this is the next thing on my list I need in order to be okay.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: I need to lose 20 pounds, or I need to get shredded, or um, I need to optimize every biomarker.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: This is I see this a lot right now in my clients.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I need to optimize every biomarker.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: Um I have I I am noticing this trend where people will wake up in the morning and they're rested, but their biomarker app will tell them that they haven't slept and then they become quite upset and start to um focus a lot on the fact that they're not sleeping well.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: And there's a really interesting thing that happens when you focus a lot on the fact that you're not sleeping well.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: You stop sleeping.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: You don't sleep well.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like taking your blood pressure.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and this is how you know that we're just not animals.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Animals just like lay down and go to sleep when they're tired, they eat when they're hungry, they poop when they have to, they pee when they they don't, you know, they're they're not they're not like I mean, this is how you know humans are very unique.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: We have sleeping disorders and eating disorders, and that'll tell you right there.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Sure that there's that there's a level of suffering that we put ourselves into.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Um that other other animals just don't do that to themselves.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: And um so anyway, I found that I I've been thinking about this really this this really cool quote by Young that I that I found.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: But what I wanna what I wanna do is float an idea past you, which is to say, do you do you part of what I see, part of what I think is going on in terms of like this optimization culture that I see a lot of, particularly on social media, in now I'm living in North America, so I'm gonna say I'm a North American commenting on my experience in North America, is a real um you know, kind of fanatical obsession with optimization, actually.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Are you are you seeing that kind of fanatic?
18:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean that doesn't surprise me that that you're bringing it up.
18:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if my algorithm in social media is a quite attuned to that because I've just watched other videos.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: It's it's home improvement and gardening and in music.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: I get the I'm not watching, you know, like so I don't see it quite as much, but I definitely see it.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: And I mean for years now, especially I feel like with the ri for some reason, I feel like with the rise of podcasts and then biohacking, I feel like that because I think w the pod podcast as a medium is great for um uh disseminating information on biohacking because podcasts are things that you can listen to while you're running or walking on the treadmill or like doing the things that you would be doing to biohack yourself.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and maybe certain podcasts are designed for that kind of personality that would that would want to multitask, you know.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: Also, just full disclosure, I get a lot of my information from podcasts, so of course, you know, I'm not talking about what's on YouTube, but I'm sure all this stuff is also on YouTube.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: It is, you know, I mean it's all everywhere.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like YouTube is social media too.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, the the optimization, like um like have you heard of looks maxing?
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what that is?
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh you mentioned that earlier, and I have never heard of this.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: All right.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: So here's the quote from Young, and then we'll go to looks looks maxing.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: The quote from Young is I become a fanatic when I attack outwardly a thing which inwardly I am obliged to concede is right.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: I become a fanatic when I attack outwardly, a thing which inwardly I am obliged to concede is right.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: So what do you think about that?
20:35
SPEAKER_02: Like as you hear it, what um I feel like I gotta break it down a little bit.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: Like I kind of want an example.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: Can you can you give me an example of what he means?
20:50
SPEAKER_01: What if I said to you, I can't stand vain people.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: It's just nothing that annoys me that I hate them.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Vain people.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Just constantly looking at themselves.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
21:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, okay.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Is another way of putting this that we hate in others what we actually have within ourselves.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: You're getting close to the idea.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: I think it's an idea that gets misunderstood because people I think in the way that we talk about yin and yang as being not opposites of one another, but complementary to one another.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Like that you said it in the last uh podcast that we did that the yin side of the mountain is the shady side.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: And the yong side of the mountain is the sunny side, and the sun is going, you know, over the mountain during the day, and it's not two different mountains.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: It's not the sunny mountain and the shady mountain.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's not two different mountains.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: There is a hole inside of what's happening.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes there's light shining on it, and sometimes it's in the shadow.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: So Jung's idea.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: of the shadow is in my opinion is really based on this kind of idea.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: Which is that our our ego is paying attention to some things.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: That's the sunny side.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: But then there are parts of it that it can't see.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Like literally one side of the mountain cannot see the other side of the mountain, right?
22:14
SPEAKER_01: So he talked about this the psyche is being separated in that way and that we and he you know coined this term the shadow.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Which the shadow is not the opposite.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: So in other words, if you were to think, okay, well I really hate vain people it would mean that if if you if you misinterpreted this quote it you would you would tend to and I think these kinds of quotes do get misinterpreted a lot is that you could think to yourself, okay, well then secretly I really think it's correct to be vain.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: If you if you read his quote in one way you could say well then I re then then then it's like that's not what he's saying.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: He's not saying it's correct to be vain.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: What he's saying is there might be a part of you that you don't know about that very intensely wants to be admired.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Right?
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Take it another step.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: People who have really severe anorexia nervosa who are very very very incredi like have this incredible body dysmorphia get so so tiny right 85 pounds, 80 pounds, something like that.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: They will often really really hate overweight people.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: And be very very judgmental of what they see as people who are overweight which could be not even someone who is overweight but they will be very very judgmental of that.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: How could she wear that how could oh my God that person blah blah blah blah blah blah blah this whole thing right and it's not that being overweight is correct.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: That's not what Jung is saying.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: What he's saying is that the anorectic secretly wishes to just be able to eat and enjoy it.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: Which is something that overweight people do.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
24:03
SPEAKER_01: They're eating and probably enjoying it.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean I hope so I yes yes well as someone who's been gaining and losing the same 20 pounds for the last 40 years I can tell you I love to eat.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean and luckily for me it's only 20 pounds.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm very grateful for that.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: But um you know it's okay so does that make sense now in terms of fanaticism?
24:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's like if I can look to the parts of myself so how did so how why does this matter Kelly?
24:33
SPEAKER_01: How does this relate to the trend why does this matter?
24:36
SPEAKER_01: It matters for me because if I can look at myself having an extreme or fanatical reaction to something it's a way for me to learn to pause with myself and say hey that where am I in conflict?
24:53
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm having a really strong reaction about this thing.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Where am I in conflict with myself?
25:00
SPEAKER_01: You know like if there's a public figure that an interesting um experiment and sometimes I'll give my my clients this um when they're working on like their shadow when they're working out the out on the feminine and masculine parts of themselves specifically in that way and I'll say make a list of three women who you really admire and then a list of three women who you really don't who you really judge and then make a list of three men who you really admire or that would be such a good actual size.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: It's really really good and then a list of three men who you really don't and why who are the villains who do you see as the villains and they could be fictional characters they don't have to be real.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: But to look at those polarities those conflicts because the the people that you write down will be representations of you right both you know it's like the James the James Baldwin quote what somebody says to me about me reveals them.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: That's the James Baldwin quote right so in other words if somebody says to me you're the such and so it's if if somebody accuses me of something it's generally a confession.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: It's generally a con confession and it may not be so specific.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: It might be it's not like the opposite or one thing is right or one thing is wrong.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: It's usually a confession of a part of ourselves that we're in conflict with and it's like the energy shows the conflict for example you know I remember in the 90s and 2000s the um I think it was called the American Family Association or something like that.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: And um it was a very evangelical right wing kind of movement that started and there was all this um stuff about family values family values family values family values family values and is this the guy that like got caught with prostitutes and cocaine or something yes I mean all of those guys eventually get caught with prostitutes and cocaine I think the only one who never did was Billy Graham.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: And he was probably the most moderate centrist from Tampa.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: He was probably from Tampa it could be but he was also kind of a centrist he wasn't really extreme.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: You know when you look at the ones who were really extreme they were either stealing money from their congregation or doing something untoward you know what I mean with their money or they're you know uh I mean really doing very you know or or okay so what is all that I'm I just said a lot of words.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to pause.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: Reflect back to me what are you what are you getting out of all of that and where does all that lead you and fanaticism the trenches okay well I mean just kind of thinking about where where where this all begins for me.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah and um okay so like if I and yeah and the fanaticism part of it so I feel like for me well okay let me back up and try to paraphrase um I think what I'm understanding from you is that when we talk about being in the trenches part of where your mind goes is this idea that when we are criticizing someone else I mean to put to put very simply when we are criticizing someone else or maybe also a part of ourself which is something I'm adding in there.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: But when we are criticizing someone it will often um indicate something about ourselves.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: You know like you said it's a confession.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: So when we criticize it's actually a confession.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: If we just just assume that that is true or where is this true maybe look at where is this true then then I think of uh number one did I get that I think so yes okay so then when I think of um this idea of being in the trenches and just my own experience of what what recognizing when I am in the trenches does for me is it lets me just take the fucking pressure off.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Right it really lets me take the pressure off.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: And it relates to I'm also reminded of I think we've talked about on the podcast our practice of having a bed day you know I feel like bed day bed days and just to just remind everybody what a bed day is is when you're like you know what I need a bed day and it's a day where you get to lay in bed and do what you want without being sick without being in the trenches.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Being bed days are trenches prevention okay they also are trenches treatment it's treatment or prevention depending on on when where you place it right yes this this medicine is preventative and curative dependent on situation yes okay so um and in the past I would just push myself through I would not take the bed day I would make myself still check all the boxes get all my steps do all my tasks continue to work towards my goals even when that my world is falling apart and that doesn't do me any good so so where does the critic critical part come to is maybe if I see someone else resting that's right and I go oh my god you cannot like how are you okay there's dishes in the sink the bed isn't made and you're still on the couch yep you know um I would never do that.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh actually Nissa you should do that that that's it that's it that's it and so so yeah that's where I feel like there's some connection there between the trenches that we're talking about.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah no I think I think that that's those are great observations.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: And it reminded me of something too I mean for I mean I just want to say just because I I have a feeling some of our listeners are maybe similar as somebody that's pretty type A and pretty driven and has a lot of big dreams and is genuinely pretty motivated.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Like that is medicine I need.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: Because I can't be that all the time.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't be that all the time.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: And the truth is the same for people who have type B personalities because they probably are judging you as being uptight.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: So if if someone with a type B personality so we'll we can talk more about what that means but you know s someone who is maybe less driven for example you know they could be like God and really they could hate on it you know like and I'm really you know I've seen I've seen that sure in in folks I've known sure you know and friends yeah who are sort of like why would you put yourself through why why are you doing that?
32:26
unknown: Mm-hmm.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: I get plenty of exercise walking from my bed to the kitchen.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh and you're over here like I gotta get my 10,000 steps and they're rolling their eyes at you literally right oh yeah I've definitely had that yeah so it's it could go both ways and I think back to back to sort of like the broader point.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah the culture which is that it's like one of one way of being is not better than the other.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not better to be organized than it is to be unorganized.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: It's really your own indiv that's my opinion is that it's really your own individuation path you know learning how to be true to yourself and listen to the messages the breadcrumbs that are coming from this unconscious part of you that is leading you forward into your own destiny and that's uniquely you right I mean the Greeks believe that you were born with your geniuses around you.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: They look like these little cherubs and they're like the gifts that are yours.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know and they're they're only yours.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: They're only for for you.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: You're born you're born with your geniuses and everybody has them no matter what no matter what they are like there's a there's a house across a a couple of streets down from us where their genius is having 14 rat terriers in the front yard and they're really good at it.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean they've got those four those dogs are I mean it is a pack to end all packs.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: And they're very happy with that pack.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: And that's their genius.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh you know and and like when I'm not wrapped up in my own kind of like I'm just gonna call it blah blah yeah I I mean I can I can really respect then the difference.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: So so just to bring it back to like our our our thing you know people are different.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: We are different from one another.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: We have different gifts and talents then and there isn't one you know this idea that there's kind of like one right way to be well of course I believe in ethics and I believe in morals and I you know and I try and live my life that way in accordance with some principles where by and large I'm not a rule and I'm not harming people I mean you know of course I'm not making a case for sort of like moral relativism or anarchy or anything like that.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not taking it that far.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: Nor am I saying that nothing means anything.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh I don't believe that I just really do think that within the confines of us living together cooperatively in a society there's room for variation.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: And if there's variation in the same person over time.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: Yes and there's room yes there's room for variation in other people and there's room for variation in myself.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: So giving myself that freedom you know I think I've told you this one time one of the one of the first retreats I went on with Technant he was talking about how monks renounce things and he said that the first thing that he renounced was fanaticism.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: And he thought it was the most important renunciation was to renounce fanaticism.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: Interesting so yeah you know and I I just want to I don't I'll have more to say about this later but I just want to say the timing of this is interesting because I did not know bringing up that being in the trenches would lead us to fanaticism but I just find it curious because the next audiobook I've been listening to is called Cultish the language of fanaticism and you know so it is a lot about cults and how cults cults in a very broad sense of the term because there's like a chapter on MLMs.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: There's a chapter on internet influencers and of course there's like the Moonies and the Jonestown and all that sort of thing.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: The Moonies I forgot about the moonies me too I'm sorry I'm not laughing at the Moonies.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: It's just the title is so silly the Moonies I forgot about them.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: Waco Texas I that that whole chapter is very very tragic but it's it's looking at how all of these different groups use language how the their use of language to I guess promote this fanaticism.
36:17
SPEAKER_02: And I guess one of the things with fanaticism is there's insiders and outsiders.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: Right?
36:22
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Which means there's citizens and aliens.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: It's like they're yeah some of them it's like actual alien like actually you're the alien and you need to go to Heaven's gate.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: There's that whole thing.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah that there's there's us it's kind of an us and them it's a us and them and there's a hard line and this is the line and you do not cross it um and so yeah it's highly polarized.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: There's there's this highly polarized part of it and that's how the how this language works.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: And so anyways I just think that it it's interesting that this idea of being in the trenches, which I guess now that I'm thinking about it and as you've described it to me I'm realizing that being in the trenches and honor the opposite of this is honoring those different parts of ourselves which which sort of dissolves the barrier between us and them.
37:19
SPEAKER_02: Flashback to episode number two on when your enemy button button button enemy button your enemy button your enemy button gets pressed which I'll link in the show notes.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: But I think that this it relates to a lot of the stuff we talked about in that episode of othering and so that's so then the split so part of where you're taking it is that the split in the individual psyche then gets projected outward.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: It dies yeah because it's not owned and that that's consistent with what Jung said is that if there's a there's a split like that that when we're not willing to see it we'll project that evil quote unquote outside of us it will become another we'll project onto it and then we'll try and decimate it or defame it or get rid of it or lock her up.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: We'll lock her up.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: Lock her up right yeah I mean really no I know and it speaks to a very um I mean what I would say is a very archaic part of of us that um I I I I would like to see us evolve further from from that kind of polarized view.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that that kind of polarization ultimately leads to war.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: We think that it's going to make us safer right but it actually makes us less safe.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah well isn't that and that's the irony isn't it like in chasing the safety and chasing the security we end up more and more isolated, paranoid.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: Conflict right and the more isolated and paranoid I am the more likely I am actually to instigate con conflict with others.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean it's so interesting I mean I talked I I give this example to to folks who come in my office and I'm trying to explain how this works really clearly with my relationship with the next door neighbors at the office which is that there's a body shop that is next to the office and they're doing work that they really it's illegal.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: They shouldn't be doing the work that they're doing there.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: They're not zoned for it and it's extremely loud.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: And you know I have clients who come in and they get on the table I mean maybe they're getting acupuncture I'm giving them time massage or whatever and it's and and all of a sudden it's like I mean you know they're sawing a car in half or something.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: And I don't mind if they want to do that.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: I just wish that they would figure out a time to do it after business hours, you know what I mean?
39:31
SPEAKER_01: Or on the weekends or on the other side of the other side of the building if they would not do it out right outside my window.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: And it's like the there have been times when I've tried to talk with them and things have gone well and there have been times when I've tried to talk with them and it's gotten kind of heated and it's been an you know one one of one of our colleagues at the office has come over who's and he's attempted to help you know kind of negotiate with them and then unfortunately the community police got involved and came over and had to talk with me about it.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: And what I mean what I find with them is that it's it's like if I show up to the office and I'm a little already feeling like a little mad, that will impact the way I look at them across the fence.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Now look I'm not saying that everything in the interaction that happens is my fault.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not putting myself in that position because they are doing things that I don't agree with.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: So this is one of those places where the where the quote could get misunderstood right I'm not saying they're correct in doing what they're doing.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: The the conflict that I have you know so what is my conflict?
40:31
SPEAKER_01: Why does it irritate me so much?
40:32
SPEAKER_01: Well one of the reasons it does is that they're is that they're just doing whatever they want to do no matter how it makes me feel they do not care.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: And I personally don't give myself a lot of freedom to do whatever I want to do without I see without caring what somebody else thinks.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: That that is not that was not in my breast milk.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah so maybe some part of you said jelly you know well I don't know if it's jelly.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: It it's just it it just brings up that kind of conflict that I I don't yeah maybe it's not jealous.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: It's more like maybe I maybe I do secretly sometimes want to do things that would upset other people and I don't let myself do them.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: And so there's a thing that I deprive like the anorexic judging the overweight person.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: You get it that's exactly it.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and and I think if you if you if you like apply that situation to something like this looks maxing thing for example okay looks maxing.
41:31
SPEAKER_02: What is looks maxing?
41:33
SPEAKER_01: It's like you're doing you're doing all available optimizing procedures in order to in order to maximize the look the way that you look okay in order they call it looks maxing or looks optimizing and it's it's kind of like so there's all it's more than doing your makeup.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: It's more than doing your makeup but it also involves that.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: So it involves skincare it involves um these these routines of uh facial sort of um working the muscles of the face in a certain way there's this thing called mewing which maybe I don't know just if you just go Google it but anyway you you you know you put me you put your tongue on the top of your mouth and you swallow and that uh it changes the shape of your jaw.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm here to tell you though, you know, there's no amount of jawline that will cure loneliness.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's kind of like what's going on there.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: You know there's this idea that if I if I get you know if I get enough sleep then then my blood sugar will be safe.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean there are people walking around who have enough money.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: This is the thing there are people walking around who have glucose monitors because they can afford them and they're using them to optimize their looks.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: And they're not brittle diabetics that are walking around right now who don't have health insurance who can't afford insulin.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: It's banana I know I know um but yeah I see that and I just like I shake my head I'm like I I don't understand this culture at all.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: But so much of it is shaking your head.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: Well no I'm just curious about it.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm not I don't hate on it or anything I'm not I don't have I don't have that kind of energy.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: That's not accurate.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: It's it's more Okay well I definitely judge it.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: So I I'm just curious about I I'm just really curious about it.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: It's like what is going on here?
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and really simply it probably is just who has the money for what and um and how seductive it can be to think that if I if I have all my hundred ducks in a row and my face looks a certain way on TikTok then I'm okay.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm So then what happens when your hundred ducks aren't in a row and you don't and it and it's not wake up tomorrow with a sty.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: So that so this I mean really so I guess I bring that up to circle back around to the idea of like the trenches we put ourselves in.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: Like there's a looks maxer out there who's hitting himself in the face with a hammer literally?
43:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah literally why?
43:43
SPEAKER_01: To change the shape of his jaw.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh God.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: To strengthen his facial muscles to strengthen his maxillas that our maxillas have shrunk because we we don't eat properly and etc so um you know in head forward posture and all the sitting that we do in chairs
44:00
SPEAKER_02: And that's a good they're a good point.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: That is most of my day working with people with their necks and their head forward posture.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: But it it it's like when it crosses over into that fanaticism and then it becomes a trench that you can't get yourself out of, and then you know what's happening?
44:17
SPEAKER_01: It's a level of obsessiveness, maybe.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: Some people say that they don't think that Hitler was a sociopath.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: They say they think he had obsessive compulsive disorder.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: That he was so rigid about things having to be a certain way.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: That then he you know had an obsession about what would clean everything up and he was compelled to follow it through no matter what.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: And he did.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Millions of people died.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: I know.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean, i i it's like it's pretty intense, I think, this this stuff.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: You brought it up when you when you brought it, I think we should talk about being in the trenches, and I was like, oh, I've been thinking about it all night.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: It's such a deep, it's just such a deep topic.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: I know.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: I know.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: All right.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: So well, what do we do?
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, maybe bring intentionality, right?
45:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean I don't know.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Intentionality.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: It's like sometimes doing more is acting the same.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's it's like sometimes doing more for some people is laying on the couch.
45:23
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what you mean by sometimes doing more issues.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're a type A person and you're compelled to just keep doing more.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the thing about doing more, maybe the way to think about doing more is that maybe the doing more would be to act maybe doing more is actually doing less.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, doing it differently.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: You can't be different by acting the same.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: To go back to intentionality quotes.
45:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:46
SPEAKER_02: Um Yeah.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, you know, what I kind of feel like I hear in all of that, um, which came up I feel like a lot with intentionality is um and if you're just t tuning in, we have a whole fourteen episode series on intentionality, so go check that out.
46:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, episodes sixteen through twenty-nine.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, totally.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think really the takeaway for me with that is like just being easier on ourselves.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:21
SPEAKER_02: And unless you're so easy on yourself, you need to be a little bit harder.
46:26
SPEAKER_02: Right, trying isn't doing.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: But it's like it's finding that it it's like dialing it into that middle way.
46:34
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: Of you know, if you tend to push to just like do a little bit of the opposite, not like totally 180 change everything that you're doing the way you're doing it, but maybe do things a little bit the opposite.
46:49
SPEAKER_02: So if you tend to push yourself a whole lot and you're really in a time where pushing yourself is really pushing, it's gonna push it to push yourself, then maybe push less.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: And if you've been sitting on the couch for three years and you just cannot motivate or whatever, like you're not moving forward, then maybe just like just do something new.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, like you don't need to go like move across the country and then get a PhD or anything, but like, you know, maybe like go for a walk or you know, you know, like just do something a little bit different, but it not not this flippity floppity 180, because I think you because we have those opposites within us, if we flip and flop, we're missing all of that nuance in between.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, right, and like is if you look at modern diet culture, most people are flipping and flopping.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: And the people of X reality culture I mean, I feel like the people that I've seen that do that that do that uh maybe go on a diet or take up an exercise regimen and are able to sustain it in a way that they're not hurting themselves.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: It's usually pretty moderate.
48:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's usually coming out of I I mean, what I think is like, all right, are are are you what's your what's your motivation in doing this exercise?
48:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what do you you know, how take a moment and kind of reflect in on am I am I am I doing this because I love myself or am I doing this because I'm at war with myself?
48:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Like so many of these h health optimization technologies, I think, that are being sold to people are really um benefiting.
48:33
SPEAKER_01: Like these companies that make these and are selling you these tech these things, they're really benefiting from our tendency to go to war.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: And to hate ourselves.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, not only will we go to war with you, we'll go to war with ourselves.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: Like if we don't have an enemy outside of us, we will create one inside of us and go to war with it.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so next episode.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: The enemy within.
48:54
SPEAKER_02: Healthy enemies.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: I know.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: That'll take a week to think about that one.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Oh boy.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: All right.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: Anything else you want to leave our listeners with?
49:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: No, I think there's a good place to wrap it up.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: I think it's so um please, uh, if you haven't already, if you would um like this podcast.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: Subscribe, rate, and review, babies.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: Subscribe and review.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you can just like it because we don't push to YouTube.
49:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, we don't push to YouTube, but if you're on Apple Podcasts or if you're on Spotify, please follow it.
49:37
SPEAKER_02: Give us a follow and on Apple Podcasts you can leave a review.
49:41
SPEAKER_02: It helps our family.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: And it will really help us reach more people because you know, it's all um it's all about just gathering more people to be different.
49:53
SPEAKER_02: Together with Muffin Man!
50:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I know the Muffin Man.