Latest / Psyched For Sanity / Episode 23 - Emotions 101: Happiness

Transcript

Episode 23 - Emotions 101: Happiness · Psyched For Sanity

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, this is Psych for Sanity.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm one of your co-hosts, Dr.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Tara McKelvey Parker.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a licensed clinical psychologist.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I specialize in assessing and treating complex trauma and attachment wounds from childhood.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I am your other host, Dr.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Brindle Doss.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a licensed psychologist specializing in geriatric psychology, forensic psychology, child treatment, and assessment.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a weird experience this morning.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always up for hearing about your weird experiences.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're a good friend.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Very tolerant.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I so, you know, we record pretty regularly these episodes.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I this morning, I was pulling out of my driveway, and I really was so excited and I was really giddy and happy.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Giddy.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was so excited to record this morning.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was, well, I know why, but I mean I was just really like happy and like really like pumped.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, huh.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed that because I'm not someone that would identify walking around as feeling very like happy all the time.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's not that's just not how I am.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how you are.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Not just giddy all the time and everything.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't think um, I don't think I'm like a happy person, but I just I noticed very specifically that I was specifically happy about recording this morning.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't usually like the word happy.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I really don't like it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have beef with happiness.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Beef with happiness.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of beef with happiness.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is the problem with happiness.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's very like, I feel like it's unidimensional, happy sad.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like the word happiness so rarely describes my internal emotional or affective experience.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I know I'm not sad.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I just feel like happiness, like like I I think of happiness on Christmas morning when you're like super excited, open gifts or be with family, or see someone else open up your gifts, right?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or birthdays or like big events.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I associate the word with happiness.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that got me thinking about, you know, the emotion of happiness.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I I think a lot of people think that the goal in life is to be happy.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you're describing happy as this giddy, really excited, right?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like ramped up state.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think, but I think I'm not alone in that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people really think that happiness is supposed to be this like super like intensive experience.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if that's how it shows up.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: That you feel happy all the time.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And happy, happy is like an emotion that needs to coexist with a lot of other emotions.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Happy, sad, you know, angry, all of these things are really normative.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if the idea in our brain, or if the expectation is that we're happy all the time, yeah, then it's like none of these other emotions are okay.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: We need to sort of be good all the time.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: It puts a lot of pressure on this idea that happy looks like that.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: When really happy or so different in our research.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's different, yeah, it's different.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what the the goal of life is to be to be more um fulfilled.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, to find meaning.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, more cal content.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what I've done like in we're in our conversation about this episode is I realized that happiness, in terms of the definition, is not that giddy, intensive, overwhelming state.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like calm, comfortable contentment connected to purpose and meaning.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not that high energy, giddy, everything is really great.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's more basically like well, you know, when someone says, Oh, how are you doing?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm doing okay.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually meaning, oh, I'm okay.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the social niceties that we often say to not tell someone that we're struggling.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: That actually people can feel okay.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Comfortable.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So comfortable.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Calm contentment, comfortable, right.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we wanted to do an episode on happiness because we thought this is a really misunderstood one.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So misunderstood.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, happy is happy by definition, but the goal of life is to be happy in this other way.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: This calm, content, comfortable.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: I really do feel like I am okay and I know what I'm doing in life, and there's meaning in it, and I feel fulfilled.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that is inclusive of a broad range of emotions.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Happiness, quote unquote, being one, right, but also negative emotions and experiences and trials and tribulations and hardships kind of can coexist.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, being a person that is overall like you feel like an overall happy person does not mean that hard feelings don't show up.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like more, it's this sort of more robust um way of being, yeah, sort of, or feeling more confident, yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: More confident, confident, comfortable, anchored in meaning, fulfilled, and able to tolerate and experience a bunch of different things, positive and negative.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where like I feel like in our research together, we like were talking about this, and it really exp well I think it confirmed my beliefs and my beef with happiness with the word.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because the whole time we were thinking about this, you know, and doing our research, and then everything that we researched was what you were already saying, and I was like, No, I felt very I felt very validated.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: You felt very validated because at first I was like, We why do we need to do an episode on happiness?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, meh.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well pass.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because, but listen, but we in our research, it's one of the most searched topics.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like how, you know, how do I feel happy?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's because I this episode helped me realize this ide what life really needs to look like.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think I'm one of those people who probably like unintentionally falls into this trap of thinking that we need to feel happy, meaning Christmas morning.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or at least that things are just good, like like positive.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: More I don't like the negative stuff in there so much.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so you really yeah, because on Christmas, but think about it, Christmas morning, there's there's that extreme, you know, swing towards the positive.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that same vibe.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking that's how I generally feel.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um there's this term emotional perfectionism.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's in the trauma literature, and this idea, it is this idea that children who grew up in like traumatized, trauma, you know, traumatic environments, like neglectful or abusive.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um there is this idea that many of these children learn that to be loved, they need to be happy all the time.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: They need to be good, they need to be perfect.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they need to appear okay and like they have, you know, everything together.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I identify with that piece for sure.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think like I get kind of caught up in that idea of what life needs to look like as being positive and good and like mostly okay and happy.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So this episode was actually really good for me because I was able to really think a little bit about like, oh, well, if this is what, if this is what we're shooting for and this is what happy actually is, not this other idea.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I feel that way more than I knew.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Stop the presses.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Tara feels happy.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like the way that you we the way all comfortable, confident, contentment.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, punctuated by moments that are freaking hard.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it feels like I'm not gonna get out of those moments.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like it feels like I'm going to be caught in them forever.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there's still some work to be done there.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: But in thinking about this, like going over the cognitive, the physiological, the behavioral, like this idea, I was like, wow.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think I'm like there more of the time than I thought.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that was cool.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I just missed happiness.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: But well, what I love that that I also kind of like clung on to in our preparation for the like this conversation today was uh, and you mentioned this earlier, that happiness happiness widens our perspective.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that was pretty like helpful too.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: That was super helpful.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things where I was like, okay, then I think I probably feel this more of the time than I know, because so cognitive manifestations of happiness.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, happiness or this sort of calm, content, right, fulfilled state broadens our thinking pattern.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it helps us see more options, more perspective, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: More alternative.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when we're anxious or we're really angry and we're having an argument with our partner, then it's very, very hard to see their perspective.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: We may like be, you know, hellbent on winning.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: But when we calm down, right, and we like take care of our this just as an example.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: We can kind of calm.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the same goes with depression, which is like our stuck sadness that we've talked about in the past.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is that we talk describe like a depressive episode or feelings of depression as like a narrowing where your view kind of goes smaller and smaller like to pinpoints.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's sad.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't see it and I suck and life is terrible.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you cannot see outside.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the widening perspective that encompasses happiness.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought I was like, oh, that's really cool.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, happiness promotes creativity, optimism.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: When we feel happy, we feel creative.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is also so when we feel happy in general, things feel safe, manageable, and meaningful.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that too.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It feels really like calming, just even saying out loud.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think like prior to our preparation, I knew how I felt within my body and my brain for the most part, related to in like day-to-day, but I did not associate that with the word happiness because of my beef with the word.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's misunderstood in our pop popular um, you know, lexicon, our popular culture.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and now I do like, oh, I'm feeling I now more I'm I'm almost like reclaiming the word.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're like calm, comfortable.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I felt that's like confirmation, yeah, validation.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which feels really good because you now have like that for this state of you know, the sense of being or state of being.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I because I don't think that I people would describe me as a happy person.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, you can be a sour pus.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: A little sour pus sometimes.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: That took a turn.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't expecting that.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Could we put a want want here?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Want wa.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I have seen I I have seen the I've seen you bit b be in your negative feeling.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that like you're not oh yeah, yeah, just bouncing around like happy, go lucky, pop people all the time.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: But what I love is the kind of written reclaiming and understanding and a the word in a deeper meaning.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it definitely allows me to identify more with the word.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you like physiological.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk a little bit about physiological sort of manifestations of this state, like what you might notice in your body if you were feeling.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, it would show up in like a warm feeling in my chest, maybe.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um like my shoulders would be relaxed.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: What about for you?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely think about um body being at ease.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no tension or less tension.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Less tension, like actually feeling like your body can relax, then the muscle tension, the warmth.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I notice that sometimes.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think just energetically, it's not hyper.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's you know, and it's not shut down.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of regulated.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: In the yeah, exactly.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: In the middle, calm, just feeling, just feeling like yeah, calm, comfortable.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Comfortable.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Comfortable.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, what about behavioral?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Just kidding.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I did it right then.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see it?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see it?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Smile.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you scared?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that your reaction when I smile at you?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: When you raise your eyebrows, well, I can't help where they go.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: It starts making me think about the caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Just because you do the eyebrow thing like he does in the I don't I don't think I saw that one.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what I'm thinking about, and so I throws me off every time because I'm like, that's what's going through my head.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not scared.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: But your face was like, ugh.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe because I the caterpillar in Alice in Wonderland.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I don't think I saw that one.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was afraid.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: That movie's a little creepy.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tricky creepy and scary, yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nothing.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's something well, I actually do think there's some there's backstory about that movie.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: The people who made it and drugs being involved.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a different episode.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So behavioral manifestations of happy smiling.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, feeling connected.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right, like we just did there.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think also when you're feeling connected, you make more eye contact.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Smile more, your body language is more open.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: You look up more than versus looking down, potentially.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe, yeah, eye contact.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, instead of looking away.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know I do that when I feel anxious or ashamed.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so it's more connected.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can kind of um more spontaneous.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I would say, yeah, right.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like a bit more spontaneous, um, playful.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I like that too.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what else?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Creative.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: More open, like you said.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think those are all behavior, you know, what you might notice if you're feeling happy or content.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what about, okay, so why is it hard for some people?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: This one was interesting for me.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't, I'm at first I was like, why would it be hard for people Yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is our experience when we were writing this episode.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, How is it hard for people to be happy?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm over here like She got so mad at me.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you hear what is coming out of your mouth?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is very hard for some people to be happy.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I understand.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I understand people that have clinical depression.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I as soon as I said it, I and the daggers that you shot at me with your eyeballs were like piercing.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, well, well, but I am one of those people who've it has been sort of a struggle or a battle to feel that feeling.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So not as much as I thought after re-org reorienting and reorganizing my understanding, but still much harder.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about things like creativity, which is something that I value and something that, like, just as an adult woman, I'm getting to think about and like ex in in in terms of expressing my creativity, just growing up the way that I did, there was not a lot of um support around creativity, but but also just emotional safety to be able to be creative.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's to explore.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: To explore, yeah, because creativity is an ex exploration.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So is being happy, because being happy is open to new experiences.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Being happy means that you're connected.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: None of that stuff feels safe for people who experience, you know, neglect or or abuse.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be really hard for some people to feel happy.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, anything then you talked about, which was really important, I think that you know, people often say I they don't deserve.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: They don't deserve to feel happy.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't deserve to feel happy, don't even know what that means, what it looks like.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many like day-to-day obstacles, just sort of like surviving or putting your one foot in front of the other.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just like going on.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: You don't really get to have access to that right part of your brain that you know is emotional and creative and like houses all of those functions, you know.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't think, yeah, some people think they don't deserve it, or there's a myriad of reasons I think why it can be hard, like from a trauma perspective.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, but there's other yeah, kinds of things that make it hard.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: What else what else do you think?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: That make it hard to feel happy happiness?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's in the way.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that if you uh kind of in the same vein, if you have a lot of um self-hatred.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you really don't think that you are someone that is deserving or worthy.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: But that's that toxic shame that we've talked about and shame episode.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you have toxic shame, you know, generally speaking, that comes from some kind of like traumatic or neglectful experience, then yeah, you do not happy is like a it's not even something that you really even you're almost mad at mad at happiness because it feels so distant.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or or you don't even know it's an option.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just don't even know it's on an option for you to be.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense is how it feels sometimes.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have to come into you have to like believe that it's even or even know or become aware of this idea that you can be happy in this way that we're describing it.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Which is regulated, which is calm, which is confident, which is connected, which is like, oh my god, everything that is so hard for someone who has experienced abuse or neglect.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, that kind of correct yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that if you haven't grown up in even if you don't have specific index traumas or like a you know abusive or neglectful background, if you don't grow up in an environment that allows you emotional expression with safety.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely emotional safety for sure.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're not allowed as a child to express the range of your emotions without being punished, which I think a lot of folks struggle with, unfortunately.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then we get into the attachment wounds, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have complex trauma and that's severe and the severe end of the spectrum, but then we just have yeah, experiences growing up with our parents that we're challenging around emotions.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes it hard to notice and tolerate and well that then it but also means that disconnected occurs with happiness.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that sometimes I think about burnout in that way.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's because, you know, um, and that's one of you know, burnout or chronic stress or nervous system dysregulation, all of these things like you're saying, they kind of make it challenging.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: But burnout, you know, sometimes I think when we're just sort of like um maybe living uh up to someone else's expectations and just sort of doing what we don't really necessarily brings meaning to us.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um we kind of burn out easier, and then you know, so yeah, I think all kinds there's all kinds of reasons why it can be hard to feel connected to that experience or that it's possible to feel that.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think um in terms of happiness, there's something I wanna that was just so striking, and I don't want to miss it, mess it up, so I'm gonna read it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we could talk a little bit about what supports well-being and yeah, yeah.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, happiness is not the goal.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, calm, contentment, comfortable, and connected, not happy all the time.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing that really stood out to me.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um happiness is not a single um emotion, but a broader state that it includes positive emotions, a sense of meaning, and a purpose in life.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not the absence of hard emotions.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: That just encapsulates for me, and I didn't want to like miss that up for our viewers and our listeners.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: It just encapsulates to me like my new found appreciation for the construct of happiness and for the emotion.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely now can identify as a happy person.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know, and I can identify as someone who's fought hard to be here and is feeling happy more often than you thought um than I thought, based on this definition.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe we can talk a little bit about what, you know, what promotes happiness and well-being.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um kind of leave listeners with with some info on that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think one thing that kind of like in that little little part that I read there that was so impactful for me was connection.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Connection, yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Finding ways to be with people that are safe, um, secure, um, reciprocal even, or like where you feel wanted or valued, or where you feel like you can contribute.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that can lead to the state of happiness that we're describing, or the experience of the range of emotions within happiness.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And this is one of those things that lots of people have trouble with.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Connection.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, if you're kind of thinking through this episode, like, oh, okay, that that seems important, but it's hard to do.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of those things that you can really talk about in therapy.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, connection is so important, it's just so hard for many people, but it does like really promote this, you know, sense of happiness.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I think about it, if you think about when we talked about sadness recently, sadness is the message of sadness, the emotion is a bid for connection.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's like a kind of like an interesting mirror effect happening between those two emotions if you conceptualize it the way we're talking about, where sadness is telling you to pull yourself towards happiness.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right, exactly.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that so cool?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, so if you can really think about that when you feel sad and use that to propel you toward finding someone, you know, some kind of connection with someone instead of hiding away.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, you know, then that would be really good progress.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be really a really wonderful step in like being able to be connected.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: What other ways can people what else?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh well, so self-compassion.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one of those things that we talk about a lot that is really challenging for a lot of people to do.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just be being kind to yourself.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And compassionate and understanding and accepting of yourself in full form and sort of you know seeing yours but treating yourself with with love and grace.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that is I just I think we should always like anytime we talk about a thing like this, we don't ever want our listeners or our viewers to think that this is easy to do.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, for some it can be.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: It can be for some it can be, and for a lot of others it's not.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Another stepping stone toward health and growth.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So in terms if you really you're listening to this episode and it's sounding so nice to feel this way, because it when I heard the definition, I felt I it, I it was great.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: It felt really it felt really calm.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: It felt really wonderful.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is lovely, like I want this.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think uh so if you're if you're thinking about, you know, yeah, like you can definitely um you can make changes even even if it's hard.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And one of, you know, one of them is to think about your emotions, really, and like try to treat yourself with love and and and grace, even though it's super, super hard.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Just take like taking one little just sort of step in that direction if it's something that you value, if it's something that's important to you.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: We just take one step at a time.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and it can take a while, but it's worthwhile.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think another way people can like kind of uh get on the pursuit of this type of experience we're describing with in terms of happiness is I think maybe getting back or contributing.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, generosity, giving back, like for sure.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: That can definitely if self-compassion feels too hard or really impossible, which is is a tricky one, then looking at ways to give to others and contribute to something you care about would definitely from my mind promote feelings of how I navue happiness, you know, calm, comfortable, contentment, confidence, yeah, appreciation.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think emotional flexibility is another big one, and that is just being able to like get comfortable first with this idea that negative emotions are good.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have to feel all the stuff.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tricky one.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Getting on board with negative feelings are good and healthy.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Even if we don't like them.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Even if we don't like them and they're messengers, and you can get through it, it will not not not last forever.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I promise.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I promise, I promise.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's the shame and the meaning you're attaching to the feelings that are not great.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: If we can really like understand that piece first, sure.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's you know, I think that's really, really important.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, and I think we also want to honor like there's a difference between feeling sadness and experiencing stuck sadness, which is depression.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I always want to just put that caveat in there and that thoughtfulness about um like serious depressive episodes um can feel like they last forever and they can be very um encompassing.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I think emotion, as we've described it in our emotions 101 series, which we are soon to be concluding.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um true emotion in the tr in the purest form does not last forever.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that is a gift and a curse.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Messengers, it's giving you information.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're meant to be here to guide you about what you need and what to do and how to move through life.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're super important.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So emotional flexibility is like acknowledging that, right?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to sort of notice and feel and and regulate through without attaching all of this negative meaning to the emotion, which keeps us kind of stuck in depression or you know, chronic stress or whatever.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: The we get trapped in them instead of being able to fully process them out.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's right in the ways we've been describing and trying to absolutely.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we can embrace this new, as we discussed, this new model in my mind of happiness, I think it's more likely that we can learn to tolerate um the other parts of our feelings.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that you know, if emotions are messengers and then they operate the same way as like the nerves and the ends of our fingers, do they inform us about the world around us and give us information?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it can really change our perspective.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: On the harder parts and help that message.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and help us keep yes, c help us keep working towards these goals of connection and spontaneity and you know, if that's something that you value or self-compassion, or I mean, all of these things that we need to feel happy, we just have to the emotional the emotion piece is really important.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: So emotional flexibility.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um what else?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: The only other thing I can think of is like nervous system regulation just in general for people with really high anxiety or like a high level of fear or lack of safety in their bodies.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that kind of thing like runs the show.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it is like, you know, we stay in like some overreactive, maybe busy state a lot more of the time.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so then we're really like don't give room for things that are going to allow happy necessarily if we're kind of always like running for safety and doing and doing.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: So like it's probably harder to feel fear and levels of happiness at the same time.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's possible, but it's harder.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's way hard.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's what is a challenge, that's challenging for me because I feel a lot of anxiety and this sort of hypervigilance and um fear, danger.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not safe all the time, or it doesn't feel that way because it to put that down to focus on something that's good for me or that's creative, for instance, or that you know feels connected because I'm always sort of like bracing for impact.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Impact.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so if you're like if you if you're sort of in a constant state of anxiety, right, that is very challenged.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the things that we've talked about to activate the parasympathetic nervous system, you know, in our in previous episodes, like I think that is key for promoting the state we're talking about.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it gets you back towards happiness, exactly.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, calm, yeah, calm, content, no tension, like that's gonna take some real effort and trying to, you know, again, calm your body down through some some of the activities we've talked about.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are you, as we're looking at this episode and this new kind of view of happiness, what are you taking away from today and from our our planning and preparation from it?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want everyone to know is important for you about this?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that I mean maybe this would I doing this makes me feel hopeful.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel hopeful, actually, right after talking about it and thinking about it because even though, you know, like I've not not really I've been, you know, trying to heal and like doing, you know, this whole like whatever self self-work for the past two years.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really know what I'm doing.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kind of like doing what I think I should be doing.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like trying to feel better, I'm trying to feel happy.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't know this was like exactly what I was reaching for.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it just feels hopeful that even if I didn't really have a path, and I'm a psychologist here with a PhD, I was just throwing stuff at the wall, like you know, different strategies or different therapies or different, you know, whatever, reading books, like really trying to figure out, you know, how I can grow and heal.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm here and I feel like this I this is happening, like I feel more happy more than of the time than I thought, even though I didn't know it was what I was reaching for.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And also didn't exactly have a clear path.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people can do it if they just sort of like take one small step in the way that we're talking about.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, I love that, and I love that you feel hopeful.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in which that could be my takeaway, just that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: I really could be.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, like seeing you connect with the part that has been so challenging for you to like connect with has been truly wonderful as your friend.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um But I do think that like I hope that people also at home, when you're you know searching for like how do I feel happy on the internet and you're looking for that and you're looking for those answers, I think reframing what happiness is has really helped me.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm taking away has sometimes just a gentle shift in your perspective and having more knowledge and understanding of a construct that I kind of honestly thought was kind of one-dimensional is so much more complex and important than I previously gave it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can now say that I identify as a happy person.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you despite despite my friends.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And on that note, you really needed to say that again.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: You really need everyone to know you're a happy person.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I am, I I can own my my my awesomeness.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I encourage you guys to own your awesomeness as well today.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or any kind of professional mental treatment.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: We hope that we can share with you our experience authentically and genuinely, and we hope that actually will make you laugh.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can relate to our quest and our sight for sanity.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: The content we share is um our personal opinions and insights.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: They are not clinical insights to anyone, and they don't represent a reflect any entity that we worked at or have worked for in the past.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: But if listening to this podcast is to make you think, we'd really encourage you to speak as a mental health professional in your area.