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Ep004: Turn Your Life's Work into your Most Valuable Asset · The Connect Practice Track & Grow Podcast

• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Fellow real estate professionals, Chris McCallister here.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: This episode of the Connect Practice Track and Growth podcast was recorded for the broker owners in our audience.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: There comes a time in every entrepreneur's life when they start to consider what comes next.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I found that many great brokers are completely unaware of the value of the business they have poured their hearts and souls into over the years.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Waking up to the fact that your business not only funds your current lifestyle, but can also be a major financial asset you can leverage on your terms is what this episode is all about.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is an in-depth discussion I recorded with Kristin Leinbach at 90Minutebooks.com about my book, Leverage Your Real Estate Legacy, turn your life's work into your most valuable asset.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it makes you think about what is possible for you as you contemplate the next phase of your career and life.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: Hey Chris, it's so good to talk to you again.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'm really excited about your new book, Your Real Estate Legacy.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: And this is really a book for real estate brokers, and it speaks to how they can turn their life's work into their most valuable asset.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: I, before we get started, I really do want to read a little bit out of your introduction, if that's okay with you.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, that'd be great.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: That'd be perfect.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I like it because it says, you know, this book is about change, choices, opportunities, and closure.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: Most of all, however, this book is about new beginnings.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: Every real estate broker who has owned and operated a sales and or property management company for any appreciable length of time has in the process built a personal reputation, a brand reputation, and a business that is potentially a valuable financial asset.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_04: In short, whether they ever consciously thought about it or not, they have built a legacy.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_04: And when you really talk about that, I like the way you look at it because you really look at the whole lifespan of the business, right?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_04: Looking at what they have built for themselves, for their company, and the possibility that they can have a valuable financial asset.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: Talk to me a little bit about that opportunity for brokers after, you know, maybe they've been in for 20 or 30 years and that now they're looking at that next chapter of their lives.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: And you really kind of talk about that being your mission to help brokers, owners everywhere where when they are ready to leverage their legacies and turn their life's work into a foundation on which to build the next chapter of their lives.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit about that.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: That sounds sounds exciting.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, a lot of real estate brokers, you know, they spend their entire careers, you know, helping other people with their real estate and financial decisions, and they don't really spend a lot of time on their own, you know, financial well-being.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes brokers lose sight of the fact that the brokerage that they own, that operation that they're running has value in and of itself.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: And to be conscious of that allows the broker to make better decisions, you know, for however long they want to operate that brokerage so that when the time comes, they've got something to sell.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if you know somebody happens to be listening to this, you know, I always say brokers of a certain age who, you know, maybe thinking that you know, maybe it is time to and I hate the word retire, but maybe it's time to go do something else.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, part of that transition may be selling their brokerage.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: Now, somebody else may be listening to this, and you know, they've got a few years before they, you know, ever plan on selling or doing something different.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: But that doesn't mean this book won't help them make better decisions between, you know, now and that future time, so that not only can they, you know, get paid now as they're working, but also have, you know, something to sell at the end of.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_04: I like that too, because a lot of times exactly what you said, we're so focused on putting out fires or finding the next best house for your next client or making sure that your agents are okay.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, there's so much in the business that you don't really have a lot of time to make that conscious effort to work on the business.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: But really, that's kind of what's necessary, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_04: To take that time to kind of look at what you've got going on right now and what you might want to do later.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think if just picking up this book, you know, or listening to this recording helps people just stop for a moment and and take stock, you know, of what they've done, what they have, and what they want to do in the future, then, you know, I feel like this book has been valuable, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: But it's at some point we're just in the thick of it in the day-to-day, and we don't stop to think about, you know, what the next thing could look like, what our future might hold.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's a perfect lead-in to your chapter one, because chapter one being necessary endings.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: You know, when it comes to having been in real estate and been a broker for possibly 20, 30, 40 years, what does a necessary ending?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: And it can be kind of like a real estate transaction, right?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: A necessary ending could be a different look for everybody because everybody has their own dream home that looks completely different than everyone else's.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: What would some of the necessary endings be that could be more personalized in different situations?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think there's always necessary endings throughout life.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, retirement just happens to be one of them.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I'm not saying that somebody who's decided to sell their real estate practice and move on to something new is necessarily retiring.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: They may have, you know, new goals or bigger goals either within or without the real estate industry, but something always has to end before something else begins.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, graduating high school or college is an ending, changing jobs is an ending.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Almost every ending, you know, is the prelude to a new beginning.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the important thing to keep in mind.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I think too, when you say necessary ending, it feels exciting, but it's kind of mixed with a dash of scary, you know, at the same time.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think it's even a dash of melancholy, right?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, could be the happiest ending, you know, in the world.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: And still, you know, like your kid going off to college or going off to get married, happiest day in the world, and yet, you know, there's an ending that they're, you know, they're not going to be in your house anymore.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, necessary endings are, you know, sort of tinged with some sadness, but they are, you know, that's more than offset by the excitement of what comes next.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: And it really sounds like you're looking at the mindset, you know, of why people are looking at having a necessary ending or what they're about to do.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'd say there's probably as far as different motivators of why people are thinking about either having a transition in the business or retiring or changing position, because some people might be doing it because they fear Zilla, or some people might, you know, be doing it because they're just making a conscious decision that coming out of the pandemic, they just want to do something different.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's true.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the last few years have been rough for many real estate brokers.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, can I say the existential threat of Zillow?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's sort of encompassing all of the you know internet forces that have changed our business so dramatically.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: But it's, you know, it's not just Zillow, you know, that's disrupted our business.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Zillow has also, you know, brought us a lot of great things.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I remember when we used to advertise our listings in the newspaper and paid hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars a month for privilege.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, now thanks to the internet and technology, which does include Zillow, you know, it's basically free to, you know, market our listings to the entire world.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a plus, that's an improvement, that's a benefit of technology.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, the whole piece where we sort of turned over our market making to Zillow and then essentially have to buy back our own, you know, the leads that are generated by our own listings.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, that whole thing, in my opinion, got a little twisted.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just one of the things that's been tough.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, the pandemic was tough.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't that many years ago.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: We had the Great Recession.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I think real estate brokers across the board have been buffeted by forces out of their control for honestly the last few years.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I like that you just used the word honestly because I was just getting ready to that made me think of, you know, when we're thinking mindset and we're thinking of looking at what is happening in your life.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: You really encourage your brokers to take an honest assessment of what it is in their life, of what they're thinking about in their future.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me why that's so important when it comes to leveraging your legacy.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm a huge fan of focusing, you know, on my unique ability.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the things that I'm really passionate about, that I'm, you know, better at than anybody else, and that can really help people.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: And as I get older, I have less and less tolerance for doing anything else.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes, you know, a new beginning might be that, you know, I want to continue to own and operate my brokerage, but there are certain things that I don't want to do anymore, you know, that it's time to, you know, delegate those to other people so that I can focus on the things that still bring me joy.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, for other people it may be that, you know, they don't maybe they want to get out of the day-to-day, but they still want the excitement of growing a business.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe for them they need to find some new partners or collaborators that complement their talents and unique abilities that you know together, you know, they can go forward to the bigger future.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I I think anytime you uh start thinking about ending something and going on to something else, you want to think about those things that you're gonna take with you.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what you want to take with you are the things that you enjoy the most, that you're most passionate about, and that you're you know, quite good at.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes it's not really retirement, but it is about, I think they used to say in the 60s, an agonizing reappraisal, right?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's an opportunity to decide what exactly do you want to do, you know, for the next chapter of your life and make sure it's something that you absolutely enjoy doing.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: I like that too, because so many times you building a business, building a brokerage, you've had to do a lot of things that you did not like or enjoy doing.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so that that's kind of offering a view of the exciting part of the necessary ending of wow, I get to do something that I actually am really good at and love doing.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you know, for many of us at this point, you know, 10, 20 years more, whatever that you've been, you know, you wouldn't be in the you wouldn't have been in the business that long if you hadn't succeeded.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: And my guess is compared to where you were 20 years ago, you know, you probably succeeded be beyond your wildest dreams.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, for many of us, it's hard to actually admit that we've accomplished something that you know we set out to do.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, let's face it, getting yourself to the point financially in life where you know you're secure is a gigantic thing.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: And and for me, it's sort of hard to believe, right?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: I sort of tell people, you know, maybe it's time to surrender to your success.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, not only do you deserve to do what you want to do going forward, but 99.9% of the time, you know, you can afford to do it too.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: So surrender to your success, what you want to do, find a new way to add value, you know, go forth and do it.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: That's so great because when you're talking in chapter two, and I'm excited to get into chapter two when you're talking about legacy, because when I think about the word legacy, I tend to focus only on financial legacy, right?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: But you really have a deeper definition of legacy beyond the financials.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: Let's talk a little bit about that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, in the book I talk about that your legacy is years in the making, right?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the end product of all the decisions, actions, and even the mistakes you've made.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it takes time to form a legacy, sometimes it takes a life, but definitely it takes a career, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: But no, if you've never consciously thought about your legacy, and I do think it's important to think about, even if you've been at this for a while, it's never too late to start thinking about it, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you feel that you've got X number of years ahead of you, you know, say it's 15 years, you know, what do you need to do right now to sharpen your focus or hone your personal skills and capabilities so that you know 15 years from now you're absolutely proud of what you've accomplished.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, all that falls into the whole idea of a legacy.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the thing is, you kind of you go ahead.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, go ahead.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: No, I was gonna say you and you really break it down too of and this is something great that you write in the book as well.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_04: A legacy isn't something you achieve, it's something you create through your thoughts, actions, and communication over time.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit about that because I think it I like how you kind of put those into steps.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think the biggest thing about legacy comes down to relationships.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, sometimes that's relationships with your clients, sometimes it's relationships with your agents.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's often about leadership.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, my view on this business is that you know, relationships are where it's at.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Relationships are you know infinitely more profitable and more valuable than any single or even series of transactions.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, all of those ways that you choose to operate in the world, all of that plays into what your ultimate legacy is going to be.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_04: And when you talk about really kind of a legacy can live on without you, I always, you know, going back to the money, we think of leaving money to our children and that legacy is going to live on.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: But you really believe that the real estate brokerages can go on as a living legacy as well.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: What does that really kind of entail as far as in your thinking process?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, a lot of people think that if you sell your business, you know, whatever legacy you had, you know, is gone.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: You turn your business over to somebody else, they're gonna do with it what they will.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: And my position is, you know, if you build a legacy uh, you know, over time with your clients, with your people, and so forth, there's nothing that says that you can't, you know, transfer your business to somebody who sees the world as you do, right?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: And oftentimes there are people that see the world as we do, but they have different skill sets and different goals and aspirations, and they may able to maybe be able to take what we've built and multiply that into something bigger and better, you know, over time.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I mean when I say your legacy can live on without you.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: And when you're talking about, you know, your the your people and your clients, and I think, you know, we get into such this mind frame that our brokerage is our baby, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: We're very protective of it, but we're also, I think, super protective of our clients, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like no one is ever going to be take be able to take care of my clients like I do.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_04: What would you say to uh a broker who's kind of in that mindset at this point?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think we're all in that mindset at some point in our lives, God.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: I know I have been, but you know, nobody could possibly, you know, take care of this person the way that I can, etc.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: And some of that's ego, you know, sometimes, you know, you get involved with somebody and you just want to make sure that, you know, take what you signed up for uh till the end.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, that one of the things that helped me, you know, a few years ago, actually, when I hired my first assistant, and her name is Susan Elliott, and she's still with the company.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I flashed on it, you know, as we were having one of our multiple meetings before she came on board.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: What I realized I needed was you know, a better me than me.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I like that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: I see the world in a certain way, and I did want this person that was going to be my assistant, my partner, and ultimately, you know, interacting with my clients and building a bigger practice, you know, than I did.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: That, you know, there's certain things that I care about that I wanted that person to care about, and I knew Susan cared about.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: Now, that doesn't mean that Susan's abilities to execute don't, you know, are are far more advanced than mine is.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: She's a wonderful salesperson, a consummate professional.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: But we see the world the same way, and that fact alone means that she's gonna do better a better job for my clients than I ever did.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I mean by you know, find somebody who's gonna be a better you than you.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: And would you say that there's really is necessary fact uh that there's gonna have to be a transfer of trust at that point?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's what selling a business is, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: I shouldn't say that.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people sell their business, money changes hands, uh, everybody goes on their merry way.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I think when you're dealing with a business where the asset is really the relationships you've cultivated over time, it truly is a transfer of trust.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: I understand there's money involved and so forth, and you know, things happen, but this has been your baby for years and years, and the person that you choose to sell that to, you would if it's important to you, I want you to have a comfort level that this person is at least going to try, you know, to expand your legacy.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And in that respect, you know, it truly is a transfer of trust.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: And you have a really great concept, a kind of a way of looking at every part of how you do all your businesses, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_04: You everything is a process, there's no knee-jerk reactions that are happening here, just like you took the time to really find somebody that was a better you than you, and taken the time to create that level of trust.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: That is really kind of pervasive, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: You are always creating those levels of trust and working with the people in your business as well as your clients and then maybe the buyer as well.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: Would that be accurate?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I would say that the most important people, the most important biggest asset, whatever you want to call it, that our business has is our people.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't, I strive to never see, you know, our agents or our staff or our property managers as expenses.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: I try to look at them as investments.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I want to invest everything I possibly can in these people so that they take care of our clients and are also able to, you know, take care of themselves and achieve all the goals that they want to achieve.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's a perfect segue into chapter three, your people.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: Part of leaving a legacy includes your people, like you said, to be able to leave a legacy, you're leaving your people as well.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: What would be a framework that you would suggest to a broker when it comes to how they treat their people?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, I I think tech technology, communication, things like Zoom, so many things are different now than they were even 20 years ago, 30 or 40 years ago.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, a lot of us, we brokers of a certain age grew up in a in an environment where management was, you know, all about command and control.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: It was about having the right answers.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it was, you know, it was almost I I don't want to say militaristic, but you know, I know what's right, you do what I say, and that's your job.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: But that's not how people see the world anymore, especially young people.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I don't know uh I leadership today doesn't have a lot to do with management because we used to define management.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think coaching today has everything I think management and leadership today has everything to do with coaching.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: And coaching is very different from command and control.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Coaching is about providing support, guidance, it's about providing resources, it's about hiring the right people and you know encouraging them and motivating them.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: And helping them see and achieve their personal goals.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, if you hired the right people, those personal goals automatically align with the goals of the company.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that I think is the holy grail these days that we as brokers have to learn to become coaches as opposed to simply managers.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: What would be if somebody has been kind of a command and control type of broker, what would be something that you could suggest to them that would maybe help them kind of pivot towards being more of a coach and instead of a policeman, you know, or a c what are you like a general in the military?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think that's a great question.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: I first of all, I think it's I think it has to be something that you want to do, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: That you have to be willing to, you know, make a an investment in your team members.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: And here's the rub you know, the bulk of that investment is really an emotional investment, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: And for many of us, you know, especially since you know our agents are not W-2 employees, they're independent contractors.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: They can come and go as they please.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I think there's a fear amongst many of us that you know, if we go ahead and pour our hearts and minds and so forth into these people, well, what happens when they leave?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I've struggled with this, you know, and we've all had people who have left, and I've had people who have left, and it's been devastating.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it it hurts my feelings.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: But the fact is, sometimes people do leave, and sometimes it's people that you've invested everything you have in, and they leave.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, my ongoing, I don't want to say struggle, but I'm constantly trying to become enlightened enough to not be so attached that I can't see the benefit that you know we've been able to do something for these folks that allowed them to, you know, do something bigger and better and make more money and do more things.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: That, you know, I'm sorry we couldn't provide it, but I'm very happy that we were able to find a platform for these people to move forward.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: Do I like it when people leave?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, I absolutely hate it.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, do I sometimes take it badly?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I know I have, and I know I will, but it's a fact of life that I don't think that you can let that stop you from making, you know, the type of investment in these people that they need to make to really put their hearts and souls, you know, in the business like you do.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: I know I was gonna say, too, if you have been more of a general command and control type of broker, and you do start to pivot towards putting more investment in your people, putting a little more emotional time, offering them a little bit more of the perk, as you say, maybe a little bit more freedom or encouragement, that may actually they you might be pleasantly surprised how well people respond to the difference.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I gotta tell you, uh, you know, once I learn to, you know, hire the right people, invest in my people, the next thing that I had to learn to do that made all the difference in the world was I just had to get out of the way.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, many times the secret sauce is simply letting people do what they were hired to do.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: And what's hard is, and I sort of alluded to this when I talked about Susan, you know, just because another team member may not do something exactly the way you do it, doesn't mean that it's wrong, as long as your goals are aligned and that the outcome is the same.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that in and of itself was a hard thing for me to learn.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not saying I've learned it.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I still catch myself, you know, no, do it this way.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the fact is, it just doesn't matter.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: What matters is the client taken care of, you know, did we get to the end goal?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: Is everybody happy?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: The how it happened is a lot less important than how somebody goes about doing something, how they get something done is a lot different than making sure that we both have the same vision for the outcome in mind.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: And when you talk about kind of people's unique way of getting there, you also have a concept that you call the unique ability team member.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: That is very intriguing.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit about that and what's kind of is that a little bit more of the secret sauce of really kind of productivity and the legacy part of a business.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think we all have a unique ability.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's the things where we're better at than anybody else.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's the things that we're passionate about, the things we love to do.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: And the trick is when you're building a team around you is to find other people who whose unique ability aligns with the with the jobs that you need done, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you have uh an accounting person, you know, my unique ability has nothing to do with accounting, but there are people out there who absolutely love and thrive on accounting.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to make sure that when I hire somebody for bookkeeping or accounting, that their unique ability is about the numbers.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if I hire a salesperson, their unique ability is about sales, if I hired an administrator, you know, they like the details, you know, all of those things.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: And when you bring these people together who have defined unique ability and that becomes the culture of your company, they come together, they form a unique ability team.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: And that team learns to, you know, adapt to the changing business, to changing objectives, to changing goals, to the changing business, because each of them individually are so capable, they learn to work together and collectively they become even more capable.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: And that sort of leads to, you know, the thing that I really wanted to get across in this chapter is when you do decide to sell your business, it's great, it you shouldn't have to, hopefully you won't have to worry about your team because you know how capable and adaptable and self-sufficient they are.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: They will continue to be that way, you know, when the business, you know, trans transfers to new ownership.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: So if you've invested in your people, if you've hired the right people, if you've cultivated that culture of of celebrating unique abilities, you really don't have to worry about what's going to happen to those people when you decide to step out and do something different.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: And when you talk about you know, selling and the buyer's viewpoint, are there, as you as a buyer, are there certain things that you are looking for when you are thinking about acquiring a company?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I am always interested in, you know, acquiring companies in the markets where we do business.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: But the thing that I look for more than anything else, I'm looking for a company whose team members have skills and capabilities that my team lacks, right?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: My goal is to find a merger partner or you know, collaboration or even an acquisition where what I'm interested in acquiring is capabilities that I don't have right now, you know, and then what I provide in return is an opportunity for those team members, you know, to be as happy and as wealthy as they want to be for years to come.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: But that's really what I look for.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: How does this new opportunity, how does this other company, how does it complement where we are and how together can we form something that's you know way bigger than the sum of the parts.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: And when you talk about opportunities, you also talk a little bit in the book about the legacy of expanding opportunities for the future of the company.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit about that, because I like the way that you worded that.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, my my plan is that I don't intend to, when the time comes, to sell my company to to just anyone, right?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: I want to leave a positive legacy.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: I want that legacy to be able to grow, you know, beyond my time with the company.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: And quite frankly, the greatest legacy I could leave my people is expanded opportunities for them to continue to learn and grow after I'm out of the day-to-day.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I think too, that is a necessary mind shift, right?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: Would you say that they have to still at that point you're kind of stepping away from the command and control and knowing that you're going they're going to be able to grow on without you.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's absolutely the case.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_04: When you talk about being the buyer, that's really the chapter four.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: You know exactly what you want from a successful sale, including prior terms, any desired future involvement in the company.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: That's the end-all be-all, right, for the broker.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_04: But when you talk about being the buyer, why is that kind of an insight that a lot of people miss?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: And why is that so powerful in your process of thinking?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes people you know feel they have a business or another asset and they, you know, they put it on the market and somebody shows up, and that's the end of it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: When I think about you know, leveraging my legacy and having my business go on, I really I want to choose my buyer, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be the buyer of my buyer.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't intend to sell my business to just anybody, right?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: I hope to sell my business to somebody who appreciates what we've done and has uh and ideas for building on what we've done and making it bigger, better, and like we just said, expanded opportunities for everybody in the organization.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, be the buyer means that I want to be very selective about who I ultimately sell my business to or choose to collaborate or merge with in the future.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_04: When you talked a little bit about people just kind of want to cash out at the first opportunity, is that good or bad, or can that really be quantified?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't know that it's good or bad.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, sometimes things happen, you know, sometimes there's financial setbacks people have and they need to get, you know, sell something for money that they need immediately.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes people, you know, get sick or you know, something happens in the family and they decide that it's time to stop this and go take care of something else, right?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not I don't think cashing out at the first opportunity isn't of itself bad if it you know can't be avoided.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: But if that's your first strategy, I just think it's a little bit short-sighted and that you know your business uh is probably worth more than that and you deserve that.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's a great way to look at it too.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's I think because you know, having come out of COVID and maybe exactly the health issue maybe is going on, or they just suddenly realize, you know, I'm done with this, even though they have that temptation to jump out at first opportunity.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_04: What would be kind of maybe a couple of questions that you would recommend them ask themselves to see if is that really what they want to do?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because maybe they feel like that's what they want to do, but what would be something they could kind of ask themselves to see if that really is something they want to do?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think you've got to uh you know have an honest assessment as to where you are in life and what you're enjoying, what's bothering you on a daily basis, etc.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: What I find interesting is that a lot of brokers I meet, they're just blind to the possibility that anybody would want to buy their business.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that just sort of cracks me up because I think it's just they're so deep in the day-to-day that they just never considered the fact that they may have a desirable asset to you know uh another broker in the market or outside the market.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, some people you know have to sell to the first person that brings cash, etc.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Some people have a magic number in their head that you know may or may not have any basis in reality.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, to talk about in chapter four that I think everybody, every broker owner of a real estate company or any company, quite frankly, owes it to themselves to spend a little time and really come up with you know a sort of a market value for their business.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think knowing that number influences the decisions you make on a day-to-day basis.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes that true number, you know, is as much well, the true number, you know, is usually just math, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's usually a multiple of your last three years prof or gross sales and so forth.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I submit that knowing that number matters because that's the first step into being more, I guess, enlightened as to how you run the business on a day-to-day basis.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_04: And would you say you and I'm sure this is pretty common, but would you say that a lot of brokers are kind of functioning on a magical number that they they don't know?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I mean.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that we they have a number in their head that may have basis in reality or something.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if somebody offered me a million dollars, I'll take it today.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, maybe that's overvaluing your business, but who knows?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's undervaluing your business.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, my advice is why don't you get a handle on you know where you are based on the numbers, and then you can make decisions going forward to enhance that terminal value, you know, that you actually sell for at the end.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're the buyer, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: When you're the one that's actively setting criteria and be selective about who you're going to pass your business on to, you know, you don't have your back against the wall.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: You're really not in a hurry.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: If you do this exercise and think about it before you have to, you're gonna see that there are an abundance of options available, right?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's only because you're in charge.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you're the one that's gonna decide, you're the one that that is in a position of strength, you're the one that's gonna decide if and when a sale is going to take place and at what terms.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: You need to be the buyer, but you also need to be practical about you know what is the business worth today, and then ask yourself what are the things that I need to do to improve the value of my business going forward and influence that by how I manage on a day-to-day basis.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and that when I think too, of when you're in a situation of not really knowing the value and you just kind of want to have a fire sale, you really are gonna take the first offer of anybody who has a bucket of water.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: But you're really leaving, you're really gonna leave a lot of value that you would you don't even realize.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what we're getting ready to talk about and in chapter five value creation.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: What before we get jump into chapter five, what would really kind of the shocking reality be if someone had a fire sale really only to realize later, wow, they left a lot of value behind?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: Or have you worked with somebody who you saw that happen to and they had no idea what they had just given away?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's like you know, anything else.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: You suddenly have seller's remorse, right?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: But he wants to realize they sold anything for less than it was really worth.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, which is really the point I want to make, is better you start thinking about the valuation of your business and what it will ultimately be worth or what you want it to be worth now, while you have the space and luxury of time to, you know, consider it and do something about it, versus having your back against the wall for whatever reason and being forced to accept something that, you know, maybe is less than what you could have gotten.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: In chapter five, when you talk about that value creation and kind of buyer's remorse, it's almost like I I think back of when I was younger and I had asked for a raise.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: I was working in a pharmacy and asked for a raise and he immediately agreed.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I was all excited until he immediately agreed, and then I left feeling horrible because I immediately thought, ah, I just gotta ask for more.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: But that's what really can happen if you're not looking at your legacy, your brokerage as a kind of an appreciating asset, right?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_04: And tell me a little bit about that idea because I really like how you talk about being a thoughtful steward, stewardship of your business as well.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, I've met brokers who, you know, they take every dollar they possibly can out of their business every month.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: They maximize the money that the brokerage throws off.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: They and usually that's at the expense of you know reinvesting in the business or investing in their people or you know, expansion to fend off future competition.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's really about you know benefiting and functioning in the now with no consideration of the future.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, on one extreme, there's running your business as a cash flow machine and taking everything out you can.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's the other extreme where you know you reinvest every dollar you possibly can in the business because you have a vision for what you want it to become, and that's not necessarily healthy either.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I want our brokers to focus on both monthly cash flow and profit and appreciation.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the best example is you know what it's like to own a rental property.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: So when you manage a rental property for monthly cash flow, you know, cash flow is the margin between the rent you collect and all the expenses that that you know have to get paid.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, there's a profit there, right?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: So you're pulling money out of the business, hopefully, every single month or paying down debt, et cetera.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: But on top of that monthly profit, there's also the opportunity for the underlying house asset, the building itself, to appreciate over time.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: Now, some people I know, you know, property owners, they take everything out every single month, they do everything they can to never put a dollar back into the business, or I'm sorry, back into the property, and you know, they live in the moment at the expense of that future value.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, on a property that's proper to cared for, when you know enough money is set aside to do basic maintenance, preventive maintenance, you know, updates in line with the neighborhood, et cetera, if if you've taken some of that monthly profit out to put back in, you're gonna be assured that when the time comes to sell that property, you're gonna get top dollar.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: But if you take money out every single month as much as you possibly can, you know, you're gonna be left with a shell when it comes time to sell, and you're not gonna get near what market value could have been for that property.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's the same thing with the brokerage, right?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't take a certain amount or a certain percentage of that money that is generated free and clear every month and reinvested into the business, you're not gonna have as valuable an asset when it comes time to sell, you know, as you could have.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_04: And what would kind of what would that look like in practice as far as an example of we know what it would look like if somebody who's just really kind of gutting the business and taking everything out as possible, but what would be a couple of examples of something that if someone has been doing that, that they could kind of get into putting some of the money back in and what would really be the benefit of that that they would maybe see pretty quickly?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't know that I don't know that there's any immediate benefit that you can see on that day of putting money back into the business.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's no silver bullet.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I don't believe in a lot of shortcuts, to be honest with you, but I think you do have to have some faith in your own capabilities and your own vision that you're willing to invest in yourself, right?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: And let's face it, owning a brokerage isn't for everybody.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of broker owners who open brokerages just because they were great salespeople, right?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think every, you know, I think all successful brokers, you know, understand sales and have been uh successful salespeople, but that doesn't mean every successful salesperson should own a brokerage.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes there's a disconnect between what broker owners signed up for and what reality is.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, practically, you know, there's a set of business skills that that you have to be able to lay on top of the practice of helping people buy and sell houses.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, as a broker, you have to have some expertise in accounting and finance and budgeting, right?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you have to know how much money you're making, you have to know how much you have to set aside to uh invest you know in in the business and the building and your people, you know, and at a minimum, you have to have a a vocabulary, right?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: That allows you to talk to your accountant or your banker in a in a language they understand.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I don't know if I answered your question, but the fact is some people are never going to find that balance between you know doing what they have to do to make a living every month and doing what they have to do to reinvest in the business.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, cash flow is absolutely critical.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: But here's the other mistake I see people making.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they forget that cash flow is a two part equation.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: And some brokers, especially brokers that have been in for a while and are trying to protect what they have, they protect their cash flow by flashing expenses, right?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: When you start flashing expenses, you're gonna you're gonna stop investing in the future.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think they forget the fact that you know the other side of the cash flow equation is tied.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Line growth.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: And in any business, but especially in a real estate brokerage business, if you're not busy growing, you're busy dying.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: So you've got to manage both sides of the equation.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: No matter how long you've been in the business, you've got to be looking for ways to expand that top line growth and always being, you know, alert to you know spending your money and your investment dollars wisely.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's a critical capability.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, managing income and expenses as a broker is just as important as marketing and sales.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, if that was never your forte, and you're at the point in life when you're reading this book, and you know, maybe it's time to do something different, that's probably one of the main reasons people you know start to get serious about selling their business because they realize that what it takes to be that particular brand of business owner just isn't their unique ability.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: And for many of us, you know, the best thing we could do is to go back to being a fabulous realtor or sales team leader because that's what we are better at than anybody else.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that's really the power of knowing their numbers, right?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: That they can kind of do a self-assessment, an honest assessment of hey, do I hate dealing with and do I feel like I'm being tackled by the numbers every month, or do I feel like I'm able to tackle the numbers?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe they do need to make that transition.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I talked a lot about coaching, but you manage numbers, you coach people, right?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: You have to know your numbers, you have to manage your resources, you have to allocate those resources intelligently.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: But there's another piece, you know, to the numbers.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's the that the reason that some brokerages sell for more than what the numbers would dictate is because of the goodwill that's built up over time in the community, and that gets back to the whole conversation about legacy.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, there's an art and a science devaluation, there's the numbers, you know, X multiple times three years average income.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's usually that multiple usually is within a range, right?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: And some brokerages sell at the lower end of the range and sell some brokerages for no, you know, obvious reasons sell at the higher end of the range.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it's those brokerages that have created a lot of goodwill and a legacy over the years sell for more than brokerages that don't.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: So if you have a brokerage where you know there's they made a great living while they owned it, but there's not much left at the end that's going to sell for less, and somebody who found a balance between taking money out monthly and reinvesting in the business and building their legacy.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm here to tell you a discerning buyer will pay more for that business that's generated and accumulated all that goodwill in the community.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: I know as a buyer, I certainly do.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_04: And when you talk, I and I like the way that you put that, it's really kind of an art and a science, right?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because you write in the book here, the art behind business valuation comes in when a buyer and a seller agree that the goodwill built up over time is worth a sales multiple at the higher end of the range.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: But if someone's trying to do that on them on their own or they're trying to have a fire sale, they're gonna miss that art part of the sale.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're just gonna take what they can get and the chance that they're gonna achieve anything above and beyond that or realize anything above and beyond that is is limited.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_04: And what would be a question that our listener could ask themselves to see if they have created something that would be able to give them the higher end of the range?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_04: Or what would they could they look at within their group of agents or their setting to see where they would be?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think the only thing they could really do, or one of the things they could do, is to step back and try to put themselves in the shoes of a potential buyer.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: Ask themselves, okay, if I was coming in from the outside and I wanted to buy this business, what am I paying for and what would I pay for it?
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: So the only advice there, or the best advice I can give there is put yourself in the shoes of a potential buyer.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: And what would you be willing to pay?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_04: Be the buyer.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: Be the buyer, that's right.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's it.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_04: And when we go into chapter six, price and terms, you really the gold standard for the broker would be you want to maximize your sales price, but not at the expense of the success of the company.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_04: You want to continue to be proud of your creation.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me what that means.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, you one of the best ways to realize more money for your brokerage is to provide some terms, right?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: To function at least to a certain degree as the bank for the buyer.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: So if somebody's gonna hand you a certain amount of cash uh for the brokerage so you can walk away, you know, you're going to get X.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: But if somebody hands you, if you make a deal that's part cash and part terms, where you know they pay you money over two, three, four, five years, if you're willing to accept terms, you're gonna realize a heck of a lot more money, you know, for your brokerage if you're able to do that than you are if you're just looking for it to be you know cashed out immediately.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_03: A broker owner who's willing to extend payment terms is going to realize substantially money over the agreed upon time frame than they would with a single cash payment.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: And you really believe that the, and you wrote this, and I I really like the way that you put this.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: You said, I believe every business owner owes it to themselves and their heirs to have a basic understanding of the true financial value of their business and how they are intentionally or unintentionally influencing that value positively or negatively.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_04: Is that are you speaking here only to the valuation process as far as the selling price?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think you have to start somewhere, right?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: So this gets back to the discussion.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's a value to the business based on the math and what an accountant would say, and there's a price for the business that somebody would pay based on the goodwill that's been built up over time.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, a quick Google search will give you different resources for value in a real estate brokerage or property management business.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of resources out there that'll help you come up with a base number.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's really not what I'm skilled at, but there's people out there that are one of the one of the companies that is out there.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's called Dye.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: And they are a company that really brokers the sale of real estate brokerages across the country.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a great resource.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: If you Google EDI-performance.com or just Google EDI, it'll come up as a potential resource for you to value your business.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_04: I love that too, because there are so many ways for people to look at the sale of it.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_04: When you talked a little bit about kind of holding the note of versus making a clean break, talk to me a little bit more about the idea of earnout over time as well.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you always have the option of an outright purchase, which makes sense when you want to get the most money you can get as fast as you can get it.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: But the earnout over time will help you maximize the value of the sale because structuring an extended buyout with you know some seller financing.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: So in an earnout over time, you know, the seller may remain the majority owner of the practice over several years and gradually, you know, they monetize more of the value of the business and give more responsibility to the buyer.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's textbook for what an earnout over time is.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, some people may be fortunate enough that they have a son or a daughter or you know, somebody internally in the business that you know wants to succeed them.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's a wonderful option too, you know, this to sell the practice to a trusted associate.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: And usually, you know, that transition takes several years because it involves a ton of coaching and mentorship and training and relationship building, but it's a terrific option to protect your legacy and to maximize the amount of money that you ultimately receive for the sale of your business.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a year?
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_04: Oops, sorry, I was asking real quick.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a year time frame that that you commonly see kind of work out as the best time for people to start that process before they plan to retire?
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I would say if you've got a you know, somebody in the business, you know, I'm gonna assume it's a younger person, you know, a relative, son or a daughter, whatever, I don't know that there's a time that's too early to start thinking and acting that way.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I you know that could that if that is the plan and everybody's on board, you know, that process could take five, ten, fifteen years.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: Who knows?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: But that's unique to everybody's situation.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_04: I like that.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: When you talk about two, the succession option, an internal succession option, is that different than the earn out over time?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's just it it can be structured many different ways.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think it can be structured as an earn out over time, but maybe it takes longer.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: And there's probably also more of an emotional investment in the person who's going to succeed you and ultimately own the business.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I think financially they're there's they're similar, but the internal succession potentially you're going to realize more money, but it's going to take longer.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_04: What would be a few other ways that you now you can either, you know, as you personally have worked with or that generically, what are other ways that people tend to sell their businesses or buyers tend to buy the businesses?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think in the real estate business, it's almost always a combination of cash and seller financing.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's always something up front, more of a down payment, and then the financing happens over, you know, say five years.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_03: The other option is, you know, to trade your company for ownership in a bigger company, right?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're being bought out by a larger company, if somebody's acquiring you, you know, one option is to you know trade your company for stock, and then you own stock.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to continue working within the larger company, maybe this is your chance to do something new or focus completely on your unique ability, that's great.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: But you always have the option of selling your stock and cashing out in the future.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_03: So personally, I love that, and I think that's attractive that you know the buyer is really looking to you to complement their company's skill set, right?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_03: To um you know, to become part of a large organization with additional resources and have ownership in that organization.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's an attractive outcome for many broker owners.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_04: And especially if they are people who hate the numbers, they just want to get back to selling how that would be a really attractive offer for them.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: It really comes down to making the sale work for you and your legacy, though.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: And that's really kind of what we're talking about now.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit about as far as like you what you tell somebody when you're consulting with them about making the sale work for you and the legacy.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, there's many ways to structure a sale.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's a million different possibilities.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_03: You have to be very clear on what your wants and needs are and what you want for the next chapter of your life, and that's what has to dictate the price and turns you choose.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_04: That really kind of goes back to that self-assign self-assessment, honest assessment, and taking the time to do that, take a moment, take a breather to look at what you really want the next part of your life.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's excellent.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: As we're moving into chapter seven, we're talking about timing.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_04: What do they say?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_04: Timing is everything.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: So what would be kind of your concern or risk that someone could put themselves in when it comes to timing, whether they're uh emotion trying to kind of make an emotional decision, I guess, and kind of just only looking at the time they're in at the moment.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we can't control the future, we can't always predict the future, but I still think that it makes perfect sense to plan your exit well in advance when you think you're going to be ready to leave.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think that if you don't take the time to think these things through before you have to, set yourself up for you know a lot of grief and a lot of seller's remorse.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, timing in this chapter refers to when you want to execute the sale.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're struggling, if you're burned out, if you've got external pressures, you know, your timing's going to be immediate.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: On the other hand, if your business is running well, it's growing, you've got cash flow to enjoy your life and reinvest in the business and so forth, then why would you sell anytime soon, right?
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, obviously it's easier to think about the future and think about you know what could happen in a few years from a position of strength than it is from a you know position of having your back against the wall.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think it's important for if someone's kind of working through this process mentally as they're listening to this, do you think it's important for the brokers to have kind of a firm date or maybe not in concrete, but a firm date where they think they they know that they want to be able to sell or retire or transfer?
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't think it hurts.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, sometimes, you know, if somebody arbitrarily says, I'm gonna I want to be able to retire when I'm 55 or I'm 60 or whatever, and you know, you know, your family may have something to say about that.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: Your significant other may have plans for what they want to have in life going forward.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, an arbitrary date, you know, maybe a mutual decision that gets that gets made.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's those who fail to plan to fail, isn't that how it goes?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that it's a bad thing to to pick an arbitrary date for which you're going to have you know your financial house in order.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's a bad thing at all.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I also think that you need to be flexible on that date.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: And if things are going well and you're living the life you want to live, you know, and that date rolls around and you decide it's too early, great, it's too early.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I want you to be able to make that position from a uh you know from strength, you know, not from uh you know forced adversity.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it really comes down to your personal circumstances.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: I was gonna say that's kind of a theme throughout the book, is kind of avoiding those knee-jerk reactions or doing anything without planning or being intentional about it.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that could be, and tell me what you think, that could be a real risk, is if someone has been in their business for a long time, they've always done kind of knee-jerk reactions because they're always putting out fires.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_04: There kind of becomes a mentality of instead of playing to win, they're playing not to lose.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_04: What have you seen as far as to how that can affect not only the broker's mentality, but the legacy as well?
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: I do believe that it's never too early to plan your exit.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's your choice when you act on it.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of times when we've had some success, you know, we naturally sort of kind of transition without even realizing it to protecting what we have versus, you know, growing and working towards something new.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I I always think of that, you know, the last thing you want to do is, you know, find yourself behind the eight ball because you've spent, you know, the last few years playing not to lose instead of playing to win.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I want every broker owner to be playing the win, and that's why I want them to be thinking about these things, you know, sooner rather than later.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you know think it through, be ready if and when something happens and the time comes.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: Better safe than sorry, I guess is my message there.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_04: And you speak several times in the book about a self-managing real estate brokerage, and we really haven't spent any time talking about that.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: Let's talk a little bit about what that means to have a self-managing real estate brokerage and how that can kind of work for you as far as control and kind of the mental space that will give you.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think when your business is running well, when it's you know basically managing itself, it's an outcome, right?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's the result of having hired the right people, investing in them, giving them free reign to do what they have to do.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's striking that balance between you know realizing a certain amount of monthly cash flow that you can take out of the business versus reinvesting in the business.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's making sure that you're always, you know, gaining market share instead of losing market share and getting to that point where you know the business is stable, it's sound, it's a little aggressive to say that it's running itself, but they're you know, for a lot of us, after a certain amount of time, you do get to the point where you know the business sort of takes on a life of its own.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, that's sort of the essence of the self-managing real estate brokerage.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, I it's a it's ask anybody, would you like a self-managing real estate brokerage?
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: And any broker's gonna say, Yeah, that sounds great.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, sure.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, please.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, that's kind of everything I do is designed to, you know, make our business that much more self-managing so I could be freed up to to do the next thing.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, if you're managing own a self-managing real estate brokerage, again, that's sort of indicative of the fact that you're in control of your destiny, right?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: You're in a position of strength to decide if, when, and how you're going to you know transition out of the business by selling your practice.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_04: And that's such a great lead into chapter eight, your bigger future.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_04: And this is a really it's kind of a feeling of peace of mind, excitement, and just it's like a smorgasbord, right?
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_04: You're excited for what comes next because you know your future will always be greater than your past.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_04: Let's talk a little bit about that.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_04: The kind of the smorgasboard of opportunities that we get to be excited about.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think retirement is the worst thing in the world.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, hope I never retire.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: Anyone I know who has retired and walked away from, you know, what they've done for years and years, I hate to say it, but they tend to die.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I think you have to always be looking ahead to something new, something different, something more aligned with who you are today.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, we don't have a better word, more often than not for retirement, but you know, when you sell your business and transition out, I want you to be thinking about what you're going to transition to.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's so critical.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now the last thing you want to be is, and I've met these realtors who are basically dying on the job, you know, because they're, you know, helping people buy houses and sell houses till you know their dying day, which if that's what they want, I'm not taking anything away from that.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm not sure that's what their families would have wanted.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if you lose sight of possibilities, you tend to become slowly unhappy.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't think dying on the job, you know, should be the goal.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think always being on the lookout for what's next and what would just thrill you to do something, you know, that's something new, I think, is critical.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the last thing you want to do is spend your whole life striving and driving.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I am the master in driving, and you know, I have been for years, and I've worked very hard to not identify 100% with what I do in my work.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't want to die on the job.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_03: I want to continue to succeed, but I don't want to succeed at the expense of my health or my relationships.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I want to become more and more effective, maybe you know, if not more efficient, more effective, but you know, personally, I want to be spending less time in my business.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: I want to spend less time in my self-managing company and more time doing new things, you know, and sometimes the first step into figuring out what those new things are is like we said early on, you've got to surrender to your success.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if you objectively step back and look at what you've got, you know, decide, you know, start to open the possibilities for the future, and you're able to do that, you can build on what you've done, you can build on your legacy on your legacy, you can leverage it.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think that kind of speaks to you know, the earlier chapters in the book, too, of having the time to look at your mindset.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_04: Are you still command master and commander?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_04: You know, are you still chasing it down?
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: Are you still trying to, you know, I always look at it as are you still trying to get underneath the hood of your car and pull the pulleys and spark the park plugs, spark plugs and you know, like Fred Flintstone, you're picking up a car and you're just running down the road with it.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_04: Or would you rather just get in the car and turn the key or now push the button and take it, you know, the car take you where you want to go.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_04: And that's really kind of the beauty of your book here and the way that you've written it is kind of giving yourself permission to take a moment, to take a breather and look at what your future can be.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I like the part here, it's okay, you've earned it, enjoy it, leverage it, use it.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: Don't squander it.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_04: Your success is the raw material for the next incredible phase of your life.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I really believe that.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think if we're adding value, if we're doing what we love to do, I think we can have a long and happy and productive life.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes when you're in the midst of doing it, it's hard to come up with possibilities, you know.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I what I think works for some people is, you know, once they do transition out and sell their business, you know, maybe they don't commit to never doing anything they again, but maybe they commit to a sabbatical, right?
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_03: They go ahead and give themselves six months, a year, two years off, however long it takes to to try doing, you know, take a week and do nothing.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, uh if I were able to unplug and walk away today, I think I would want to hike the Appalachian Trail or you know, learn how to sail or travel, you know, whatever.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, just because you've sold your business and you're free, it doesn't mean you have to do anything forever.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to be retired forever.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_03: Consider it a sabbatical.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: Go do some things you want to do.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: And who knows?
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think for a lot of us, our future work life is going to be, you know, maybe we do something, you know, pretty intensely for you know a certain period of time, a couple, three, four, five years, and then we take some time off, right?
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe we continue to do the work we do, but we find a way to do it um 24-7.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_03: And by 24-7, I mean 24 hours a week, seven months out of the year, right?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it quite is.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think you have to get overly creative about what the next thing is or define that next thing because that's a super hard thing.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes you have to free yourself from what you have so that you have the mental space to even consider the possibilities.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why, you know, I think a sabbatical is a wonderful strategy for what to do next.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_04: And when you talk about freedom from versus freedom to, why is that really such an important mindset when we're looking at the leaving a legacy?
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of times, you know, we want to get away from something.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: So freedom from is the easiest thing to define.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's the easiest thing to um, you know, work ourselves away from the idea of what comes next, what we're going to be free to do, sort of that idea of positive freedom, that sometimes is a little bit tougher.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, freedom from is negative freedom, and freedom to is positive freedom.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, negative freedom is getting away from external circumstances, right?
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, some of those external circumstances are placed on us, you know, by other people or circumstances beyond our control, but more often than not, it's restrictions that we've allowed people to place on us, you know, and we just want to get away from that day to day, you know.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_03: So freedom from is pretty easy.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_03: Freedom to, that's a little bit tougher, right?
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: So probably freedom to is the freedom to control and direct your own life.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's a big thing.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, positive freedom means you gotta make some choices.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_03: You you you know, create your new unique purpose, design the life that you know you've never allowed yourself to even dream possible.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: It is a big thing.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's a lot of it it's too big to just think you're going to define it and you know live it in one act.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think that you have to free yourself from what you're doing to get some space, call it a sabbatical, call it a long vacation, call it what you will, to get clear on what it is you really want to do going forward.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_03: And if what you really want to do is nothing, go with it.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_03: But my guess is once you step away and get a little space, your next thing, whatever it is, it will appear.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_04: And the way that you said that, I just got the visual of you know, freedom from versus freedom to.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_04: Freedom from feels like you're driving down the road 100 miles an hour trying to get away from the monster, you know, the big purple monster chasing you down the road, and then freedom to feels like drive down A1A, and you're like, hey, can we go over here and have this some sushi?
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_04: Or hey, let's go sit at the beach and have some tacos.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_04: Such a different feeling.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think everybody should do that.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_03: They may not want to do that for the rest of their lives, it may make them crazy, but I think everybody wants to do it for a bit, and you got to give yourself permission to at least try it.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_03: My point is getting away.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_03: The only way you're going to even get a glimpse of what you've sort of been holding in deep down for years and years is to get away from what you've been doing, and I guarantee it'll come to you.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_04: And as we start to go into the conclusion of Leverage Your Legacy, is there anything that I should have asked you that I didn't?
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't think so.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Again, the message of the book is you know, yes, selling your business is is an ending, but it's also a huge beginning.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, taking time off for retirement doesn't have to be forever.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_03: You can try something, make it, you know, dig in, see how you like it.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And at this stage in your life, if you don't like it, you cut your losses and you move on.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, nothing is forever.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_03: Just because you've closed the entrepreneurial chapter in your life doesn't mean you're not going to write another one.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Your future is whatever you want it to be.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I I just hope that you know, reading this book or listening to this discussion, if it just gives people the idea to get some space and to, you know, sort of let some ideas and possibilities bubble up, I think ultimately they'll be happier, wealthier, and wiser for it.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_03: So surrender to your success.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's a bigger future for you out there.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's the best probably invitation we've had in a long time as business owners, brokers.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_04: Now that we have talked this through and our listeners have been able to listen to this, what would you suggest that they do next, or what step would you suggest that they do next whenever they're ready?
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, if they are, you know, if somebody listening to this is interested in uh, you know, trying something new or you know, entering into some sort of collaboration, new relationship, or you know, selling their business.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not gonna hide the fact that you know we're expanding, you know, we're interested in growing our business.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_03: I've thought a lot about what I want to do in the future, and for the foreseeable future, you know, this is absolutely what I want to do.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you haven't read the book yet, download the book, take a look at it.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think those definitely goes into deeper in depth into some of the things we talked about.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_03: We also have a scorecard that you can check out at leverageyourlegacyscorecard.com.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_03: And you can check out our company.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's called Roost Real Estate Company, so Roost Real EstateCO.com.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I just want to thank everybody who's come this far and this audio.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_04: And thank you, Chris.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I really would encourage our listeners to check out that legacy scorecard, leverage your legacy scorecard.com, because that is such a powerful asset for them to kind of score where they're at right now and what their options and next moves could be for the future.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_04: If once someone has downloaded that and really kind of worked their way through that, what email address would you recommend our listeners reach out to you at?
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_03: They can always reach me at Chris at RoostRealestateco.com.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Chris at roostrealestateco.com.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, this has been a fantastic time that we've spent together, and I always enjoy our visits, and I look so forward to visiting with you again in the future.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Chris.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_03: All right, thank you, Christy.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And there we have it.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening in.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to continue the conversation, go to www.connectpractice trackgrow.com.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's connectpracticracgrow.com where we have additional information about the podcast, archived episode, and an option you can select to be a guest on the show.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's it.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be back next time with another episode of the Connect Practice Track and Grow podcast.