Latest / onefjef / Six Months in Sayulita as the World Shut Down

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Six Months in Sayulita as the World Shut Down · onefjef

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My favorite few months of my life were actually during COVID.
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Sayulita, we had, you know, these beachfront houses
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'cause everybody was gone.
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We were renting, you know, 1,500 a, a month when they were
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supposed to be 600 a night.
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You know, we hired a lot of, like, the restaurants to come cater
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dinners and stuff to keep, you know, for that sense of support.
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Right, right, right.
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We also had, like, a, you know, pool.
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We were right on the beach.
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And it was just like I loosened up more in those months than I ever have in my life.
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This is episode 65 of onefjef.
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Hola mis amigos Hello my friends Hello once again Here we are.
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We are here.
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Estamos aquí.
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As always, I hope you're thriving, I hope you're living your best life,
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and I hope you're happy, wealthy, wise, all the clichéd shit, all of it.
1:04
I am also thriving.
1:06
I am also happy, wealthy, and wise.
1:08
Well, I wouldn't say all those things, but I'll let you guess which one I'm not.
1:13
You actually don't need to be happy, wealthy, and wise.
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I think if you get one or two out of three, you're in good shape.
1:19
And frankly, why am I deconstructing an old clichéd saying?
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I don't know.
1:25
I don't know.
1:25
This is what my brain does.
1:28
I met Mike Moll, who is my guest today, through Facebook, once again.
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Right after I moved here, I was scrolling through one of these expat or immigrant
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groups, and he had posted something saying he's moving to Mexico City, and he has
1:42
a podcast, and does anybody, I think, wanna come on or meet up or something?
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So I sent him a message that said, "Hey, I just moved to Mexico City, and I also
1:51
have a podcast. We should meet up." So we did meet up, um, a couple weeks after
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he moved here, and then he came over to my former apartment in Roma Sur and came
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on my podcast about a month after that.
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And it's a fascinating conversation.
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Mike's the kind of person that I would never generally know in real life
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or normal life, if that makes sense.
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I don't interact with a lot of entrepreneurs, which is what Mike is.
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But, like, that's the magic of living in Mexico City or any expat community
2:24
because there's fewer people, so you end up hanging out with people and
2:29
getting to know people that you never would get to know in the first place.
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And I kinda love it.
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Mike's relationship with Mexico is a really interesting one.
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He moved here from Toronto in 2019 and was here for the COVID
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lockdown and then on and on.
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I'm not gonna spoil the entire episode in the introduction.
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But before we get to that conversation, might I ask you to go to your computer,
2:55
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So there are many valuable reasons to sign up.
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The most important one is to support an independent podcast that you know
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and love and enjoy called One F Jef.
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Patreon.com/onefjef.
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Thank you.
3:36
And to all of my continuing Patreon subscribers, thank
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you, thank you, thank you.
3:41
But most of all, thank you for listening.
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Thank you for being here.
3:46
Here is my conversation with Mike Moll
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I lived in Toronto for most of my life.
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Okay.
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Well, I grew up outside of, but my adult life was in Toronto.
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Mm-hmm.
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And the girl I was dating at the time, uh, she was working in
4:01
a… It was like a translation job, kind of an admin role in it.
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And we started dating and, and we had talked about traveling,
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'cause I had traveled a little bit.
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This is back in 2013, 2014.
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Okay.
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I'd, I'd done some traveling in, uh, Italy and, and the
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Caribbeans and stuff like that.
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And, and… But this business that I was building, which was now starting
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to take some shape and have some team and have some revenue, it was
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like, "You know, we really don't need to be here for this." Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so we had started to plan around 2017 to, like, take three to six months and
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just try working in a different place.
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Yeah.
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Didn't end up happening.
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My, uh, dad and my mom got cancer at the same time.
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Ooh.
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Uh, Dad ended up dying shortly… Well, within three years of that.
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My grandfather also had, like, this freak medical situation where he's…
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He had a blood leaking through a pinhole-sized thing in his brain.
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Jesus Christ.
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Yeah, all at the same time.
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Like, the same year, the same month?
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Pretty much, yeah, yeah.
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Jesus Christ, dude.
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So we were just… I was, like, basically living and working out of
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the hospital- God almighty … for, yeah, about seven, eight months.
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And, and so everyone… So my dad got a little bit better and then didn't.
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My mom got fully better.
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My grandfather passed away.
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Mm. And around 2019, I just said to her like, "Look, we can't just wait around for
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more things to keep happening." Mm-hmm.
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"Because life's gonna keep happening." Mm-hmm.
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"Things are gonna keep moving." Absolutely.
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"And so let's just, let's just go." And so she did all the research on where to go.
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She said, "Hey, this, this Puerto Vallarta place," but obviously
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saying it in, like, the gringo way.
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Puerto Val- Puerto Vallarta.
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Puerto Vallarta.
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Um, and she was like, "Yeah, they, they have, like, they have this big
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gay district there-" Uh-huh … "called the Zona Romántica." I see.
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And she goes, "I feel like if there's a town that's like a… or a city
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that's very accepting of gays, it probably is a pretty friendly place."
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Sure.
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Natural logic.
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Yeah.
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So we went, uh, for three weeks and worked remotely and did all
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that, and it was like, oh, yeah, that, that worked pretty easily.
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And this was pre-COVID?
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Yeah.
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Oh.
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This is, this was, like- Mid 2019 Trendsetting Yep Yeah And then,
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uh, at the end of 2019, we went for another six weeks, different house.
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Okay Uh, like a house up in the hill, and we invited my sister and
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my niece, and we had a cool time.
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Yeah And I was like, "Yeah, we could, we could do this. Let's, let's do
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this." Yeah So we put our apartment up for rent in Toronto, and then we
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were in Bucerias first, and then we w- discovered Sayulita, which was amazing.
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And so it was, like, right around the time that COVID lockdown was starting.
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Yeah Governments were saying, "Hey, guys," like, "You should come back." Mm-hmm
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My fa- like, our, both of our families were freaking out, and I was like- Sure
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… "You know, we're in this little place.
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We found about 12 other people, this, uh, a family, these two brothers
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and this couple and their friend who were all like, 'Yeah, we're
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gonna, we're gonna stay, I think.'"
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'Cause, like- First of all, going back to Toronto in the winter, waiting in line
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to go get groceries- Right … like, I was like, "I don't… Why?" Yeah, no.
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"I think we'll be okay here." Yeah.
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And so we just hung out in Sayulita for six months during COVID and- Wow.
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Yeah.
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What was the most surprising thing?
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Like, what was your impression of Mexico before you, you came here, and
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then what was your impression, I guess, when you got here that was different?
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Yeah, I don't think I ever carried the like, "Mexico is dangerous,"
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this, this and that going on.
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But I feel like my family was freaked out about it, so.
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For sure.
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Yeah.
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I just, I've always been very detached from media and news, and a lot of
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people who give advice tend to give advice without experiencing it.
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For sure.
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It's like their feeling.
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I don't care about that.
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Yeah.
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Thanks for coming.
7:33
Right.
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Like, I just… She showed me some pictures and one YouTube
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video, and I'm like, "All right. Send it. Let's go." Right.
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But surprising, I would say the culture.
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Uh-huh.
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And I think being around Mexican people during COVID specifically
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just really broadened my thought process on how to live life, and
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just, like, the idea of, like, a real community really banding together.
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For sure.
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Yeah.
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'Cause like, it hit Mexico very hard, especially where
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we were, very tourist-driven.
8:01
Right.
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Right, right.
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Like, Sayulita shut down.
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Mm-hmm.
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Nayarit just shut down.
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Like, our group, like, single-handedly kept a few restaurants open.
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They, they- Huh … they told us as much.
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Wow.
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And but it was like this, "Okay.
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Well, we can't do this, so I'm gonna make soap, and I'm gonna give it to
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these people," and, "Oh, I'm gonna make this." And so, like, they just,
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they just figured it out- Right.
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Right, right … and really banded together, and some… You know,
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it's interesting how that happened 'cause when I asked about this
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community thing, it's like, "Well, we don't trust the government.
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We know they're, they're not coming for anything," so. Right. "Yeah, that's it.
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We've got us, and that's, that's how we roll." And it
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was so different from Canada.
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For sure.
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This individualistic- Yep … um, you know, my family goes here.
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Even within families- Yeah … like, you're old enough.
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You go over here.
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Yeah.
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You know, Grandma's dying.
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Put her in a home.
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Yep.
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Like, here it's such a foreign concept.
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Yeah.
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People talk about how warm Latin America is, but until you actually
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come here and experience it, it's… There's an immediate warmth to
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people here that really, um, it's off-putting, uh, as an American.
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You know what I mean?
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It's so funny 'cause my wife, who I met a year ago in Asia, is, is Russian,
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and, like, v- their idea of, like- Hmm
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being friendly to people on the street is to, like, just stare past them.
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Like, they don't- Yeah … they don't greet anybody.
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They don't smile.
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Yeah.
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It's so against the culture.
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Yeah.
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And we're at restaurants constantly.
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We were just in Querétaro, and, like, people were coming in being
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like, "Oh, buenos días. Provecho."
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Provecho.
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Provecho.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Like, "Enjoy your meal," and whatever.
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And, and I'm like, "Babe, they're talking to you." And she goes
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Why would they say that to me?
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They don't… I was like, "Yeah, but that's…" Oh.
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So she's adjusting.
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She's only been here for four months, and it's a culture shock
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in the weirdest way for her.
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It's, it is weird that, that we're so accustomed to not being, I guess,
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warm and friendly in our, in our home countries that to come to a place that
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is warm and friendly, it's like we have to get, you have to get used to it.
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It's like for me, it's also a matter of, like, slowing down.
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I always feel like I'm in a hurry, and Mexico kind of is like therapy
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to make me kind of realize, "Okay, you can slow down a little bit.
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You can, you can walk slower on the sidewalk because the person in
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front of you is weaving back and forth like they do here." Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And, and honestly, I feel like Canada and the US has a very superficial
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friendliness- Yes … which is nice, uh, unless you've got the, the BS
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detector, and it's kind of like- Mm-hmm
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you know, ask about this.
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"Hey, we should meet up." That was, like, another cultural thing, the like,
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"Hey, we should meet up." Mm. You know, when you go back and see friends from
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wherever, and, like, that means, like, "Yeah, it'd be nice if I happen to
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see you again- Mm-hmm … but I'm not gonna, like, make a plan with you."
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Right.
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Here, it's like, "Okay, like, when? When are we meeting? When
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are we gonna do this now?" Yeah.
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You know?
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Yeah, although plans here, maybe you haven't had this experience,
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but I'm having to adjust my understanding of what plans are.
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You know what, like, ahorita.
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It's like we'll do it when we do it.
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Maybe it'll be 8:00.
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Maybe it'll be… So you really have to call and confirm, things like that.
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But- Yeah … so you came to Mexico City.
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You were here during COVID.
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But you, how long did you stay after COVID?
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So I was here till August of 2020.
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We were supposed to actually th- two other couples that we were
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friends with were supposed to pack up and move to Spain- Okay
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all together.
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But j- because CO- it was COVID- Right, right, right … and everyone's like,
11:03
"We don't know what's happening." Right.
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Uh, we went sort of back to Toronto quickly for the summer.
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Yeah.
11:07
Did our quarantine, left for Portugal, and then my sister actually had
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a very severe medical emergency.
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Jeez.
11:13
Um, yeah.
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Some medical problems in your family.
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Wild.
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And so we left Portugal early and went back to Toronto.
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Okay.
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And then after, we're like, "Okay, she's stabilized. There's nothing
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we can really do for her." Mm-hmm.
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We came back to Mexico.
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Okay.
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So it's been, it's been in and out.
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Um, I would say since 2020, at least six to… at least six months
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in Mexico every year since 2020.
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Okay.
11:37
Yeah.
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You first came here in 2019, which was before the big wave of
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foreign immigrants started coming into Mexico City particularly.
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What's the differences that you've seen between when you first started coming
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to Mexico or Mexico City and then now?
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I think I came for the first time to Mexico City in 2022.
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Okay.
11:54
It was, it wasn't before that.
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So it was already starting at that point, yeah.
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It was already starting, and I noticed, like, between now or then
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and now, the volume is certainly higher, the temperature towards people
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more so than the volume of people.
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And what, what do you mean by that?
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I, like, I think most of the Mexican people that I interact with here
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are still, like, fairly- For sure
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indifferent about- Yeah … foreigners being here 'cause there's kind
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of an inevitability about it.
12:21
Right.
12:21
I find the people that have traveled more get it 'cause they're like,
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"Oh, this is everywhere." Right.
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"It's just a different type of person, and it, but it's"-
12:27
Right … it's happening everywhere.
12:30
But I think there's, yeah, there's a bit of a shift in energy of, like, level of
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invitation or level of, like, wanting there to be such a mixed culture here.
12:38
Right.
12:38
I feel like there's a lot of people that wanna c- reclaim
12:41
certain areas and cultures.
12:43
And, and listen, I 100% agree.
12:45
For sure.
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I don't think there should be signs that are, like, just English and not Spanish.
12:49
For sure.
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Because I've traveled to so many countries, I think over 20 now,
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I've seen how this works, and it's always a different person or
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a different group that's coming in and interrupting the space.
13:01
Yeah.
13:01
But it's, there's an inevitability about it with globalization and, and- For sure,
13:05
yeah … the way the economies are going.
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I think international gentrification is gonna be the story of
13:09
this, the century, really.
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And I don't know how you actually solve a problem like that or if
13:14
it's a problem even to be solved.
13:16
But it's definitely an interesting situation, 'cause in Mexico City I
13:20
feel like it's happened very quickly.
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Like 2020 is when it began, and then it just kind of exploded.
13:24
Yeah.
13:25
Um, I don't know how I'd feel about it, 'cause I think before 2020 it was
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pretty, it's a pretty homogenous city.
13:31
Yeah.
13:31
And there's so many issues.
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Like, you know, how much rents of course, blah, blah, blah.
13:36
How many, coffee costs as much as it costs in the States now.
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Um, by the way, how can Mexico City sustain this many coffee houses?
13:42
There's more than in New York.
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It's ridiculous.
13:44
Yeah Like every block.
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Two have opened in my neighborhood since I moved here.
13:47
Yeah.
13:48
Two.
13:48
That's crazy.
13:49
It is.
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What's your favorite thing about Mexico City?
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What's brought you back to Mexico City so many times?
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There's a building energy here.
13:56
And I go in phases.
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So I, I, I've built a couple of different companies- Mm … and part of what
14:00
I do is help people build companies.
14:02
Right Offers and, and sales strategy.
14:05
And so sometimes I just want to be at the beach.
14:07
Mm-hmm.
14:07
I want that like, you know, 5:30 in the morning, go to the beach and journal
14:11
energy- Right … for some time.
14:13
For sure.
14:14
But when I'm like in building company mode, I like to be in a busy city.
14:18
Mm-hmm.
14:19
And I've just found this place to just have the perfect mix
14:21
of art- Culture, food, people.
14:28
Like, it's just, it's just such a wonderful place.
14:31
Weather.
14:32
Weather, yeah.
14:33
Pollution's the only downside.
14:35
Yeah.
14:36
P- pollution and noise, but you're gonna get noise in most-
14:38
You are … in most places.
14:39
Mm-hmm.
14:39
You know, I've spent some time in, in Lima, Peru- Mm-hmm … uh,
14:42
in Cape Town, South Africa, which is ki- I mean, it's a big city on
14:45
the beach, so it's hard to say.
14:47
Right.
14:47
But I think in terms of, of quality of life, access to amenity, and
14:53
I find, you know, a lot of big performances and performers and shows
14:58
are coming- Mm-hmm … through here.
14:59
Yeah.
14:59
Like, we just saw Andrea Bocelli.
15:01
More than ever.
15:01
Yeah.
15:01
We just saw The Weeknd.
15:02
I saw Mark Normand, the comedian.
15:04
Yeah.
15:04
So, like- Oh, he came through when?
15:05
When was he here?
15:05
Oh, it was b- it was- It was a while back … last year.
15:07
Okay.
15:08
But just, like, I was like- Still … "Oh, he's … Like, he's coming?" Yeah.
15:10
Like, I- Crazy … I'd love to go see that.
15:11
And so, yeah, just kinda having that, that mix of, like, big entertainment
15:16
as well as, you know, there's just so much cool stuff happening,
15:19
like the fashion scene and the
15:22
It kinda reminds me, like, a little bit of Montreal- Mm … but less snobby.
15:27
Uh-huh.
15:28
Yeah, it's almost overwhelming how much stuff is going on here.
15:31
When I first got here, I felt like, "I wanna see all the things, do all
15:34
the things," et cetera, et cetera.
15:35
But then the longer you're here, you realize you just, you just can't.
15:38
The experience you're having is the experience you're having, right?
15:40
Yeah.
15:40
What would you say is the most annoying or worst thing about living in Mexico City?
15:46
Cell phone connection and Wi-Fi.
15:49
Yeah, although the Wi-Fi in this place is faster than any internet
15:52
I've ever had in the United States.
15:54
I've not had that experience- I think it's wi-
15:55
pretty much anywhere … I think it's, I think it's fiber here.
15:57
Yeah.
15:57
Yeah.
15:58
Uh, but I just, like, in terms of the flakiness of it- Yeah, yeah,
16:00
yeah … so for me, you know, coming from Canada- For sure … and listen,
16:03
if you're outside of a major city in Canada, it's not that great either.
16:06
Oh, is that right?
16:07
Yeah.
16:07
But I was doing a comparison, 'cause I lived in Vietnam for 10 months last year.
16:11
Mm-hmm.
16:12
And kinda like there's a lot of, a lot of similarities between Vietnam and
16:15
Mexico, like more than you'd expect.
16:17
And even my wife, who lived there for a decade, when she
16:19
got here, she's like, "Huh.
16:21
This is-" Hmm … "very s- very similar." Like, like what?
16:25
There's a, an attitude about work that is similar between the cultures.
16:32
What do you think that attitude is?
16:33
I'm curious.
16:34
It's kinda like, "I'm here, and I'm getting paid to do what
16:38
you're getting me to do." Mm-hmm.
16:39
But, like- Nothing beyond that, and after the clock is done- Right … I'm out.
16:46
Work is not life.
16:46
That, that real balance of- Yeah … of work and, and life- Yes … that is
16:51
ingrained in c- again, coming from Canada where it's like, "You're making six
16:54
figures, why aren't you making this?"
16:56
Uh-huh.
16:56
Mm-hmm.
16:57
"Why don't you have this car? Why don't you have this apartment?" You know?
16:58
Win, win, win.
16:59
Win, win, win.
16:59
Yeah.
17:00
Yeah.
17:00
Like, this, this relentless beating of the drum of, "You gotta do more, do more, do
17:05
more." So- I don't, I don't care for that … so culturally there is that similar.
17:08
There's also this, like, energy where it's like, if you're not
17:12
doing something terrible, but it's not the right way, it's fine.
17:17
Mm-hmm.
17:18
You know, where it's like you can kind of get away with more stuff.
17:20
Again, I'm comparing this to Canada and the US where it's like- For
17:23
sure … very strict, here's the rules.
17:25
Yeah.
17:25
We don't even understand where the rules came from.
17:27
We are gonna enforce them to a T. Right, right.
17:29
I feel like there's this kind of looseness and this openness, which is like, if
17:32
you're not hurting anyone, if you're not doing anything terrible, like, it's okay
17:35
to go a little bit outside the lines.
17:36
Yeah.
17:37
Yeah, yeah.
17:37
That's interesting.
17:38
You know?
17:38
Um, but then there's like, you know, the cellphone service
17:42
and the internet in Vietnam.
17:43
Right, right, right.
17:44
And the coffee shop, like, work culture, which th- that's a whole argument of
17:48
should you be working in a coffee shop.
17:49
I don't often, but when I do, I like to not have to put in a 17-character
17:53
password reluctantly for the wifi.
17:55
Like, what are we doing?
17:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:57
In Vietnam, they're like, "It's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,"
17:59
and you're good, and it's lightning fast.
18:01
Your phone is, you know, 5G, $6 a month- Right, well Asia … or $5 a day.
18:06
You know- I mean, it's, yeah, it's- There's things about Asia that are true.
18:09
You know, stereotypes th- and the internet is, yeah.
18:11
Yeah.
18:11
Even when I was there in Korea, I lived in Korea, I mean, 20, 25
18:14
years ago now, and the internet then was even, like, super, super fast.
18:17
Yeah.
18:18
Yeah, yeah.
18:18
So go ahead.
18:19
Yeah, and then there's, there's these little things that are off about-
18:25
customer service related to, like, amenity or fun or interactive things.
18:32
Like when we s- when we were in Vietnam, like even go to the movie theater.
18:37
Okay.
18:37
They have this, like, very specific process where you have to, like, buy
18:40
the ticket from the same guy that you get the food order from- … but then
18:46
you take the food order voucher- … and you go to the food order table.
18:50
And you're like, "Well, hold on.
18:51
I just wanted a movie ticket." This guy's trying to choose, like, what
18:54
flavor of this, and what size this, and which, which candy would you like.
18:58
I'm like, "Just go buy it over where the food is." Like, what are we doing?
19:01
And, like, there's some things in Mexico that we've run into where it
19:03
just, like- Ugh … is so illogical in terms of, like, the way it functions.
19:08
What do you got?
19:08
You got anything example-wise?
19:10
Oh, boy.
19:10
I'm curious.
19:11
Yeah.
19:11
Um- 'Cause I would say the garbage thing- Yeah … that was surprising to
19:14
me, the dinging bell garbage, you know?
19:16
But the more I thought about it, it, it, it annoys me a little bit 'cause
19:19
I'm never ready to take out my garbage.
19:20
Mm-hmm.
19:20
But, uh, I lived in New York for 10 years, and there there's garbage
19:24
all over the street all the time.
19:25
Right.
19:26
And, like, you just don't see that here, right?
19:27
Yeah, which is beautiful.
19:28
It's amazing.
19:29
Yeah.
19:29
Right.
19:29
So it works.
19:30
Yeah.
19:30
We went to, uh, when we were in Vallarta, we went to, uh, Sanborns,
19:34
which is, like, that department store.
19:35
Yeah.
19:35
We just, we needed to go in and get a deck of cards or something like that.
19:38
Sure.
19:38
And the, on the corner is where the exit comes out, and then one
19:44
meter to the right on the main street is where the entrance is.
19:47
Right.
19:48
And, like, we walked in the exit- Because the- Sure … the
19:52
signage isn't really great.
19:53
It happens.
19:53
And the lady was like, "No, no, no, no, no.
19:56
Get out." I was like, "Huh?" Like, there's a gap right in front of her
19:59
to walk into where the entrance is.
20:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:01
Nothing blocking it.
20:02
Right.
20:02
There's no pillar, there's no desk.
20:04
Right.
20:04
It was like, "Can I just take two steps past you and continue?" Right.
20:08
"No, no.
20:09
Go outside, turn around the corner, walk down the street, come back
20:13
in." And it was like- … "Huh?
20:15
What are we talking about?" It's like- It's like if you brought, like if
20:17
you brought a water bottle with water with- through TSA, you gotta go all
20:20
the way back around and do the dance.
20:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:21
Mm-hmm.
20:22
And, like, the whole, you know, having to lock up your, your
20:25
backpack in a grocery store.
20:27
Oh, I've never had to do that.
20:28
Yeah, it's- I've never brought a backpack to a grocery store,
20:30
so I guess that's probably why.
20:31
Got it.
20:31
Yeah.
20:32
Like, very, very prevalent in, in Vallarta.
20:34
They have, like, lockers or, um, someone at, like, a f- a, a desk.
20:37
Mm-hmm.
20:38
Where you have to go, you give the bag, you get a ticket or a card.
20:40
I've had that in the States, though, like in the museums and stuff like that.
20:42
Yeah.
20:42
A museum, yeah, but a grocery store.
20:44
It is, it is weird.
20:45
Yeah.
20:45
And I get, you know, fine- I mean, how- … it's anti-theft … theft.
20:47
Yeah … and I get it, but it's like, I don't know, stuff
20:49
like that drives me crazy.
20:50
Yeah.
20:52
Yeah, yeah.
20:53
I haven't had to deal with paperwork from Mexico City fortunately
20:56
yet, but apparently that's just a nightmare having to deal with
20:59
paperwork, 'cause they will look for anything to reject on these papers.
21:02
Yeah.
21:02
And just stacks of papers everywhere.
21:04
It's still very much a paper-based government and bureaucracy
21:07
and so forth and so on.
21:08
Yeah, we got married in Vallarta.
21:09
Yeah.
21:09
And it was like, "Go to this office, get this thing printed, go to
21:14
this place, get this document, get this, get this, get this." Yeah.
21:18
"Bring it here." And it was like, you don't even book an appointment,
21:20
you just kinda go up to the window and you're like, "Hey, it's us.
21:23
We're coming back to make sure our documents are good."
21:25
"Oh, yeah. Just come on through." Like, like, the structure of- Right … that.
21:29
Mm-hmm.
21:29
And, like, in some ways, if you can make friends and get away with stuff-
21:33
Sure … and it's faster- Sure … cool.
21:34
Yeah.
21:35
But if you're on the outside looking in on that, it's- Yeah … kind of a pain.
21:37
I've heard some nightmare stories about getting, like, a, you know, going in
21:40
and getting your temporary residency and all that kind of thing, and trying
21:43
to get it all, 'cause you, one thing's wrong, you gotta get back in line
21:45
again and all these kind of things.
21:47
Have you been basically digital nomading since 2020, or do you still
21:50
go back to Toronto from time to time?
21:52
No, I, I spend less than a month in Canada a year on average.
21:57
For the last, what, five years or so?
21:59
Yeah.
21:59
Six years?
21:59
Yeah.
22:00
Yeah, since 2020.
22:01
You know, you don't know when you're planning on going to work remotely.
22:05
It's like, am I gonna be able to focus?
22:08
Is there gonna be- Yeah … complications?
22:10
Like, there's so many reasons to, why it's like, it won't work or it couldn't work.
22:15
Uh, uh, ultimately most of them are just excuses if you- For sure … you can
22:19
kind of just figure out how it works.
22:20
But no, I've been, I've been, you know, in, in Europe, a bunch of
22:24
places in Europe, uh, in Namibia and South Africa and Asia, but
22:29
not one week here, one week there.
22:31
When I go somewhere, I go for, like, one to three months- Yeah, 'cause it's
22:34
exhausting otherwise … two months.
22:35
Yeah, and I just find, like, learning how other people live and seeing how
22:39
the world works has just made me so much more creative, tolerant, happy.
22:46
Yeah.
22:46
I don't know.
22:46
There's something about it that, like, really lights me up.
22:48
Yeah, yeah.
22:49
W- do you have any good, like, what's, uh… Six years of digital nomadic
22:53
traveling around, you've gotta have, uh, like, one or two solid travel stories.
22:59
Sure.
23:00
My favorite few months of my life were actually during COVID.
23:04
Mm-hmm.
23:05
Sayulita, we had, you know, these beachfront houses
23:07
'cause everybody was gone.
23:08
We were renting, you know, 1,500 a, a month when they were
23:11
supposed to be 600 a night.
23:13
You know, we hired a lot of, like, the restaurants to come cater
23:17
dinners and stuff- … to keep, you know, for that sense of support.
23:18
Right, right, right.
23:19
We also had, like, a, you know, pool.
23:21
We were right on the beach.
23:22
We got, we bought a ping pong table.
23:24
We played, you know, we had ping pong tournaments every single night.
23:26
And it was just like, I- loosened up more in those months than I ever have
23:33
in my life, 'cause I've always been a very straight line, kinda strict,
23:38
don't be like, don't be a second late.
23:40
Like, I've, I've always been a very, um- Right … not neurotic, but like close.
23:45
Yeah.
23:45
Kind of- I, I, I relate … you know?
23:47
Yeah.
23:47
And, and I just, there was something about just seeing this other way of
23:51
life that, like, it opened my soul.
23:53
And like, I almost went, like, to the far end.
23:56
Like, I almost went hippie for a bit.
23:58
You know?
23:58
And then I was like, "No, I like, I like money and, and not
24:02
wearing tank tops every day."
24:03
But- … but there was like, I don't know, it just, it really opened
24:06
my, my mind and my soul more than anything that's ever happened.
24:11
Hmm.
24:11
I would say, like, right up there would be, uh, you know, self-drive
24:15
seven-day safari, you know?
24:16
Oh, wow.
24:17
Four vehicles.
24:17
That's fun.
24:18
You know, these four-wheelers, literally driving it through,
24:20
like, riverbeds and up mountains.
24:23
Uh-huh.
24:23
And the guy was like, "Just learn to drive.
24:24
Get up the hill." "It doesn't matter." Like, driving on the wrong side of the
24:27
r- the road with a left-handed stick shift, trying to- Uh-huh … manage it.
24:30
It was like- Yeah … sleeping in these rooftop tents.
24:33
So, so, so cool.
24:35
Um- Nice … I haven't, honestly, I haven't had that much bad stuff.
24:38
I've had a lot of bad dates.
24:40
Like, real nightmare-ish dates.
24:42
G- give me, give me one.
24:43
Oh, boy.
24:44
I love these stories.
24:45
Yeah.
24:45
I was, I was living in Querétaro at the time, and I met this yoga
24:50
teacher, super cute, and she lived near San Miguel de Allende.
24:55
Okay.
24:55
Just outside.
24:56
Yeah.
24:56
And we had gone on one date, and it was fine.
25:00
Mm-hmm.
25:00
She was very sweet and da, da, da, da, da.
25:02
Yeah.
25:02
And she, she asked me to do something again.
25:04
Mm-hmm.
25:04
And I don't know, I don't know if I would've asked her to do something.
25:07
It was kind of just like an okay- Sure … time, you know, not a great
25:10
conversation, not… Like, the energy was okay, but- Right, right, right
25:13
anyway, so she said, "Hey, I've got two houses, and they're in this gated
25:18
community, and we've got, like, pools, and we've got da, da, da, da, da." Mm-hmm.
25:23
She said, "Just come spend the day. It's such a cool place." Okay.
25:26
Um, and it was, like, quite a big… It was, like, a gated community with, like,
25:30
five other gated communities inside of it.
25:33
And so we're at her place, and you know, we're sitting out in the backyard.
25:36
We go for a swim.
25:37
We're just- Mm-hmm … chatting, da, da, da, da, da, and all of a
25:39
sudden she, "Oh, we should have some wine." I said, "Yeah, okay.
25:43
Why not?" Yeah, sure.
25:43
It's Saturday.
25:44
Okay.
25:44
Let's go for it.
25:45
What she meant was, "I'm gonna drink two bottles of wine."
25:50
And I'm talking, this girl was, like, you know, 5'3", 90 pounds.
25:54
Right, right, right, right.
25:55
Maybe.
25:56
Right.
25:56
Maybe.
25:56
Right.
25:56
Tiny, tiny human.
25:57
Right.
25:58
And she got blackout drunk And so, like, she kept trying to- Mm … you
26:03
know, sexually advance, and I was like, "Hey, I, like, I'm out on this." Right.
26:09
"Actually, I gotta, I gotta go." 'Cause I did have, I have a cat.
26:11
I, I owned a cat at the time.
26:13
Okay.
26:13
And I said, "Hey, I gotta, like, I gotta go home- Right … and feed the
26:15
cat. I've been gone all day." Right.
26:17
"This has been super nice." Like, I had been there for several hours now.
26:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:20
I, I was kinda ready anyway, and she just, like, refused.
26:24
Huh.
26:24
And now the problem was, where she was, Ubers and cabs couldn't get to it 'cause
26:29
there was two sets of gated guards.
26:31
Sure, sure.
26:32
So unless she- Let you out … gave them permission- Yeah,
26:35
right … to let the Ubers come in.
26:36
So I had, I kept ordering them, and I'm sitting on the front lawn, and
26:40
she's just, like, yelling at me and, like, telling me off and whatever.
26:44
And all the Ubers kinda got to a certain point, and then they
26:46
were like- They would turn around
26:47
canceled.
26:48
Uber c- so it was, like, five- Your rating's going down
26:50
too … five cancellations.
26:51
Right.
26:51
And I was like, "You know what? I've had enough," 'cause she just
26:54
kept, you know… You know, when someone's blackout, it's, like, the
26:57
same question over and over again.
26:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:58
It's very annoying.
26:58
There's no logic.
26:59
Very annoying.
26:59
It's just loop.
27:00
Yeah.
27:00
And I was like, "You know what? I'm just gonna walk." Right.
27:02
I'm gonna walk.
27:03
It was, like, I don't know, maybe two kilometers to get outside of
27:07
this- Right, compound … compound.
27:10
So I start walking, I've got my bag, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
27:13
She goes back, and I was like, "Okay, perfect."
27:15
Good.
27:15
You know, it was, it was pretty unpleasant, but like- Sure.
27:18
But- At least- No harm, no foul … like I can go home now.
27:20
Yeah, yeah.
27:21
She wasn't giving up.
27:22
She was going home to get her Jeep.
27:24
She then proceeded to drive up over the curb, onto the sidewalk,
27:28
and hit me with her Jeep.
27:29
Wow.
27:29
She wasn't going super fast.
27:30
Oh, good, good.
27:31
But she… And then she, like, was super apologetic, and I was like,
27:34
"No, no." She's like, "Let me at least drive you to the front gate now-"
27:37
Oh … "because I've hit you with my car." And I'm like, "No, no, no." No.
27:40
I'll go.
27:40
"Leave your Jeep right here. I'm out." So I got- Yeah.
27:44
She hit me with her car.
27:45
Well, she liked you.
27:46
I guess.
27:46
Yeah, she clearly likes you.
27:48
You really charmed her.
27:49
Yeah, yeah.
27:50
Do you have a lot of Mexican friends?
27:52
Yeah.
27:53
Well, let me preface.
27:54
I don't have a lot of friends in general.
27:56
Okay.
27:56
I don't… Like, I, I'm not a big go out to a lot of social things anyways.
28:00
Yeah.
28:01
Um, but relatively speaking to, like, the friend group that I have in Mexico City,
28:05
it's probably 60% foreign, 40% Mexican.
28:10
Okay.
28:10
Yeah.
28:11
Yeah.
28:11
'Cause I feel like a lot of the gringos and expats here don't necessarily
28:16
interact with a lot of… It's like an outsider group, and that happens
28:20
with every kind of foreign group.
28:21
That's always, like, you know, they connect as a community, and I feel like
28:24
that's part of the animosity towards gringos here is that there's not a
28:28
lot of effort made to integrate or try to accept the culture or learn the
28:32
language from a certain subset of the gringo community or the expat community.
28:36
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's important.
28:38
I think learning the language is important.
28:39
I think, like, even- Or at least trying.
28:41
I mean, make an effort, you know?
28:42
Yeah.
28:43
I mean, even thinking about in Canada, like the frustration of someone who,
28:46
especially who's like came over 20, 30 years ago- Mm-hmm … you know,
28:50
and like you didn't learn English.
28:52
Like it's so, it's so insulting, and you kinda wanna just
28:55
be annoyed with the person.
28:56
So I- Yeah … because I've felt that about other people, I was like, "I don't
28:59
wanna be that guy." And admittedly, it took me longer than it should have to
29:03
get into it, but, you know, then I spent a year really dedicating to it and-
29:07
It does give you a really strong new perspective on how fortunate we are to
29:11
come from a countries where the language that we learned as kids is basically…
29:16
I don't know.
29:16
There's a name for the international language that everybody has to
29:19
learn or everybody does learn.
29:20
But boy, what a gift, right?
29:22
'Cause how hard would it be, uh, like as a Chinese person, to come
29:25
here who doesn't know Spanish.
29:26
Like, what would you, you know, what do you do?
29:28
You end up speaking English, right?
29:29
Yeah.
29:30
Yeah.
29:31
Perspective is a gift.
29:32
Yeah.
29:33
And I think, I think for me, you know, travel is perspective if, if you, if
29:38
you integrate, if you do it right.
29:40
And that's why, like, when I go somewhere, I tend to, you know, find
29:43
my gym, find my grocery store, find like the places- Mm-hmm … that I'm
29:47
going to go to every single time.
29:49
Also a bit of a creature of habit.
29:50
Right.
29:51
And then whatever happens outside of that, that's fine, but at least
29:54
I'll get to see in that little hub or in that little bubbled area, like-
29:59
How do the people of that country spend their time- Yeah, yeah, yeah
30:02
… energetically and things like that?
30:03
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
30:04
Do you have any thoughts on the difference between expats and immigrants?
30:09
Because a lot of people would argue that expats are people coming from a
30:13
richer country to a less wealthy country to, to stay for a period of time,
30:17
but they're gonna leave, whereas an immigrant's going to another wealthier
30:20
country from a poorer country because they need money for their family.
30:23
Yeah, I don't, you know, I think that people use the term expat to avoid using
30:28
the term immigrant because there's an association with it that, you know-
30:32
That they don't wanna, yeah … that's, that's a negative thing and, and like
30:35
million different variations of the subject matter on, on immigration and
30:39
those practices and stuff like that.
30:40
Sure, sure, sure.
30:41
But I think if you've left your country to live somewhere else, it's immigrant.
30:48
Like, I understand that, you know, the connotation between
30:51
the two is kind of like one's punching up, one's punching down.
30:54
Yeah.
30:54
But I think that's just a, an, an ego-driven bit of language.
30:58
That's interesting.
30:59
Yeah, I can see that.
31:00
I can s- so you consider yourself an immigrant?
31:02
Yeah.
31:02
Okay.
31:03
Yeah, absolutely.
31:03
Even when you're going to a country for, say, two months?
31:06
No, no.
31:07
Yeah, two months, like, so Mexico's very different than
31:10
the other places that I've been.
31:11
'Cause you've come here many, yeah.
31:11
Yeah, I got, you know, I have my residency here.
31:14
I have a bank account here.
31:15
I have, I don't have a company here yet, but that's coming very soon.
31:19
So no, I, like this is the place where I plan to, like, lay roots,
31:23
live, pay taxes, et cetera.
31:24
Oh, okay.
31:25
Um, I'm actually a non-tax resident of Canada, so I'm even more disconnected
31:29
from Canada than the average person.
31:31
Huh.
31:31
I don't, I don't have, uh, healthcare there.
31:34
I don't have, uh, I don't contribute to, like, old age pension there anymore.
31:37
Uh-huh.
31:37
Um, I don't have credit there anymore.
31:39
Like, I'm- Huh … I'm detached.
31:41
How does that happen?
31:42
Uh, unlike the US, you're allowed to do it.
31:44
You can make- Right … a declaration of, uh- Oh … but there's an exit tax.
31:49
So depending on your assets, uh, whatever you own, you get taxed on the way out.
31:54
Oh, okay.
31:54
But I'll always have my passport and my citizenship there.
31:57
Right.
31:58
Any thoughts or advice for people?
32:00
I mean, there's probably a lot of people … I don't wanna become one of these podcasts
32:04
that's like, "Five things that I should've known before I came to Mexico City." Yeah.
32:08
Is there anything that you wish you had known before you came here?
32:10
I think the biggest thing is I have friends from ar- around the world and, and
32:16
a lot of them have come to Mexico City.
32:18
Right.
32:18
And it's really interesting for me to see the mixed reaction Because
32:23
all it takes on a trip is the, you know, got food poisoning, someone
32:27
was rude- Mm. Something happened- Right … and then all of a sudden
32:29
you're like, "Oh, this is a bad place."
32:31
So what I have started doing before I travel to a place is I actually try
32:37
and consume about two to three hours of YouTube videos- … from different
32:43
creators- Right … about the place.
32:44
Right, right, right.
32:45
Because I think if you know that there's gonna be some cultural differences-
32:50
Sure … this is a perfect example.
32:51
My grandmother came down for the first time last year.
32:53
Okay.
32:54
She came for two weeks.
32:55
She's never been to a place that wasn't on a resort-
32:57
Mm … or that wasn't in Florida.
32:58
Mm-hmm.
32:58
And they've traveled Europe and various places, but, like, being
33:02
in, like, suburban Mexico was never something that she's done.
33:05
Sure.
33:05
And so, you know, you, you kinda l- you're like, "Okay, well how is this gonna
33:08
compare to her, like, super quiet suburb- Right … of Toronto?" Right, right.
33:11
Like, okay, well, it's gonna be noisy.
33:13
Uh-huh.
33:13
The sidewalks are gonna be kinda sketchy- Yeah … especially in Vallarta.
33:16
Yeah.
33:17
Um, and so, like, what I found myself doing is, like, before she came, I'm like,
33:21
"Look, the way that people make a living and sell is, is they're out in the street.
33:26
You can go to the store, too, but, like- Yeah … there's a water guy.
33:29
There's a knife sharpening guy.
33:30
Yeah.
33:30
There's a gas guy.
33:31
There's a tamales guy.
33:32
There's a this.
33:33
There's a sweet potato guy.
33:34
There's a that.
33:34
And they all have their own sounds- Yep … whether it's, you know, a
33:37
prerecorded thing or a bell or a, a vocalization, whatever that thing is.
33:41
So I was like, "You know, she's gonna have a really hard time
33:44
with… 'cause it's so noisy compared to what she's used to." Yeah.
33:47
You can't, you can, Europe- you can hear a pin drop in her house.
33:49
It's- I'm sure … suburbs- Yeah … you know, up against a ravine, deadly quiet.
33:54
Mm-hmm.
33:54
So when I was, when she was coming down, I thought about how I
33:57
should prepare her, and so I did.
33:59
I sent her some videos that kinda talked about how the culture is, what it's like,
34:03
'cause I think if you, if you think it's gonna be like home- And then you get
34:08
there and it's super different from home.
34:09
Right, right.
34:10
There's this automatic, like, I'm uncomfortable.
34:13
Exactly, yeah.
34:14
And, and the time it takes to adapt to that discomfort can make someone
34:17
be like, "I don't like this place."
34:19
Uh-huh.
34:19
But I think if you understand the cultural differences before you go, it's
34:24
like there's that expectation of it.
34:26
Mm-hmm.
34:26
And I, I feel like it's the same thing as like when you
34:28
watch the previews for a movie.
34:30
Yeah.
34:30
Right?
34:30
When you wa- You're like, "Okay, like I know this, the general gist.
34:34
I know this is the general storyline.
34:36
I know these things." Right, right, right.
34:37
I think, I think nowadays- It's getting, it- … honestly, movie
34:39
trailers d- or the whole movie, it sucks … it makes me angry.
34:41
It makes me… Yeah, I was about to say.
34:42
No, they're terrible.
34:42
It makes me so angry.
34:43
I agree.
34:43
I can't even watch them 'cause it tells you the whole story.
34:45
Agree.
34:45
What are we doing?
34:46
Agree.
34:47
But comparatively, if you, if like no one told you anything, and in your
34:50
mind you're like, "Oh, it's gonna be this type of action movie." Right.
34:54
And then it's like super romance driven, and it's got all this other weird stuff,
34:57
and you're like, "Oh, that's not what I was expecting, so I'm mad about it."
35:01
Right.
35:01
So I think- Right … w- the more you can circumvent that, the
35:04
more you can get ahead of it and understand a little bit more about
35:06
what you're going into- Managing expectations … manage the expectations.
35:09
Yeah.
35:09
I think the experience is better because then it's like you're
35:13
going through the tutorial like, "Oh, I know what's coming next."
35:15
Right.
35:16
You can kind of predict a little bit more.
35:19
Uh-huh.
35:19
And I think for some people, especially who haven't traveled much at all- Uh-huh
35:23
… and so when you've got that experience where you're like, "This is what my
35:26
life looks like"- Yeah … "this is how the people around me are, and everybody
35:29
stays in this town," so like it's this cyclical thing that's so predictable.
35:33
So I think to go out of that and expect it to be like, "Oh, it'll just be
35:37
like home"- Yeah likelier to create a disaster or, like, the feeling
35:42
of- Right … this is really bad.
35:43
Right.
35:43
Versus if you're like, "Oh, okay, I know it's gonna be different.
35:46
Maybe I don't understand it.
35:47
Maybe it's kinda weird.
35:48
Maybe I don't like it, but, like, I know it's coming."
35:51
So for me, that's what it is.
35:52
I think it's like do the research about what it, what it really is.
35:55
Don't just save a bunch of restaurants and hope for the best.
35:57
Mm-hmm.
35:58
So my, my grandmother was, she's kind of at the age, you
36:00
know, she's in her late 80s.
36:01
She's like- Yeah, yeah … whatever happens happens.
36:03
But I, again, made sure she was kind of prepared, and she came down,
36:07
and she complained, but- Of course
36:09
she ultimately came back this year for double the time.
36:11
Oh, nice.
36:11
She came back for a month this year.
36:14
But, like, my mom grew up in the suburbs, never lived in a city.
36:18
Yeah.
36:18
Um, never was close to the action or, like, crime or poverty or-
36:21
Yeah … anything that's going on.
36:22
And for the first, you know, year that I was in Mexico, year and a bit, I
36:26
would get these, like, anything that happened, cartel violence- I get those
36:30
kidnapping.
36:31
I get them.
36:31
Yeah.
36:31
She for- she would just- Yep … forward me the news article.
36:33
Mm-hmm.
36:33
I'm like, "Cool." The city's sinking.
36:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:36
Like, that was, like, 3,000 kilometers from where- It doesn't matter.
36:39
Yeah.
36:39
It's the only news they get about Mexico- Agreed … is that, yeah.
36:42
But then, you know, because I had this place in Sayulita, I had her
36:44
down for 10 days, and on the second day, we were sitting on the beach,
36:49
and it was like, you know, there's just a big mix of people around.
36:53
We were having a margarita and just sitting on this kind of, like,
36:55
slightly, uh, elevated part of the, the beach just kind of looking
36:59
around, and she just looked at me, and she goes, "I get it." You know?
37:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:03
And so sometimes it's like you just have to go and see what it is-
37:06
Yeah … see what it's about and, and not every place is for every person.
37:09
There's a bunch of places I would never go back to.
37:11
Sure.
37:12
Just 'cause, like, energetically, I just- Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course … you know?
37:15
But I think experimentation and, and exploration is so important,
37:20
and, and if you're not going in with an open mind, you're gonna
37:24
find things that you don't like.
37:26
Yeah.
37:26
You've really gotta learn to exercise your flexible and open muscles of your
37:31
brain to adapt to another country.
37:33
Yeah.
37:33
I was also thinking about, you were talking about the, the noises, you know,
37:36
the knife sharpening guy with the bike and all that, and then there's the, the guy
37:40
picking up the garbage with the recording.
37:42
These are the things you hear every day.
37:43
But, like, a knife sharpen- it's not everything.
37:45
It's very specific things.
37:46
Like, the knife sharpening thing, there's a lot of things that could be biked around
37:50
the city with a noise, but they aren't.
37:52
But knife sharpening… And, and the weirdest one is, I think, the
37:55
kom- komote man, the, the sweet potato one, which is insanity the
37:59
first time I heard that, the sque- squealing steam whistle driven- Mm-hmm
38:03
just to sell sweet potatoes.
38:04
And they're not that good.
38:05
Yeah.
38:05
Have you had one?
38:05
No, I haven't.
38:06
No.
38:06
They're like a- But it's similar to the bun, it's similar to
38:07
the bun bao guy in Vietnam.
38:09
Oh, huh.
38:10
They've got this, like, it's, like, an oven attached to their bike- Right … and
38:13
these, like, steamed buns with meat in it.
38:14
The, the b- they sell- Oh, that sounds delicious … bun, bun
38:16
bao, is what they're called.
38:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:17
Yeah.
38:18
But they have this, like, recording that's, like, this perpetual
38:20
bun bao day, ba, ba, ba. Uh-huh.
38:22
I don't know the whole thing, but- Yeah, yeah … yeah, it's
38:23
same, same kind of thing, so.
38:24
In Korea, it was, like, fruit trucks would drive around with the
38:26
same recording of fruit being…
38:27
Yeah, that drove me insane.
38:29
I've got this.
38:30
But it's Korea, so it was, you know, Korean.
38:32
Oh, Korea.
38:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:33
Yeah, same here.
38:33
Yeah.
38:33
Yeah.
38:34
Um, but yeah, it is strange.
38:36
I find these things charming about this place, you know?
38:38
Mm-hmm.
38:39
I love it.
38:39
You, you… It's, it's, like, so old school in a weird sort of way.
38:41
Uh, especially, do you know the recording of the, the, the, the trucks that drive
38:45
around, get the old, old appliances?
38:46
Oh, for the mattresses- The … and the refrigerators- The … and
38:47
the microwaves and stuff … it's the recording of his daughter.
38:49
Yeah.
38:50
Right.
38:50
I love that.
38:51
I love that.
38:52
And the knife guy, I just think it's amazing that there's a guy biking
38:55
around the city playing a whistle who will sharpen your knives like
38:57
some sort of a, a weird Robin Hood character for knife sharpening.
39:00
I don't know.
39:01
Yeah.
39:01
Weird, weird.
39:02
Uh- But I think it's, you know, it's, uh, the more places you go, the
39:05
more you realize, like, that's super normal life for a lot of cultures.
39:09
Yeah, for sure.
39:10
But again, it's just that, like, when you're so detached, just, you know, in,
39:13
in a Toronto, in a- Yeah … in a New York, I mean, I guess the bigger cities
39:17
you would k- see it a little bit more.
39:19
But you're like, "Oh, you're selling this?
39:20
Oh, do you have a permit?
39:21
Where's your permit?
39:22
Here's your fine." Like, it's so- Right … it's so-
39:24
Right … strict and overdone there.
39:26
I think it's a little bit too loose here.
39:29
Yep, but, you know, but that, but that's the culture, and that's how commerce
39:34
has been done here for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, so who
39:36
am I to- Yeah, although I imagine in the United States at least that there used
39:40
to be a lot of people selling things in the streets like there are here, and I
39:42
wonder if, if Mexico City will, like in 100 years if it'll look more like, you
39:46
know, the United States in terms of like they'll eventually be like, "All right.
39:48
We don't want all this noise," you know?
39:50
I wonder if that's just a matter of time.
39:52
It's a good question, but I mean, this is an older city and country
39:55
than- It's very, much older … right?
39:56
Yeah, for sure.
39:57
Compared to like a Toronto.
39:57
That's true.
39:58
That's true.
39:58
So it's like, I think it's just, I don't, I actually don't have an
40:01
explanation about how that comes to be.
40:03
Yeah, me neither.
40:04
But, but there is a beauty, like b- beyond just the commerce part, there is a beauty
40:08
to this idea that I have this idea, I'm gonna formulate this product- Mm-hmm
40:13
… and I'm just gonna go out and see it.
40:15
And like I, you know, believe me, some of these guys that are out
40:18
here, I wish they spoke English.
40:20
I would hire them as salespeople- Oh, like who- … you know, heart- Like, like,
40:23
like for example, what are they selling?
40:25
Oh, they're just good salesmen.
40:26
Right, right, right.
40:26
Like they can, they can just, they just gladly, like the guys with the rugs.
40:30
Uh-huh.
40:30
Because that one's like such a- They're bold … an operation, right?
40:32
Yeah.
40:32
Like on the big trolley, then they take the rug and they open it all the way.
40:36
Open it up.
40:36
And they fold it back in.
40:37
They keep going.
40:37
Yeah.
40:37
I mean, these guys are getting rejected thousands of times a day.
40:40
And they keep doing it.
40:41
You know, they're selling like, what, two, three towels a day?
40:43
Yep.
40:43
Like I want those sales guys on my team.
40:45
For sure.
40:46
Are you kidding me?
40:46
Yeah, that's crazy.
40:47
In opposition to that, somewhere like Thailand where it's super illegal.
40:51
Oh, is it?
40:51
Oh, yeah, yeah.
40:52
Like- Oh, I was there like 20, 30 years ago.
40:54
Yeah, there's a, especially in the islands now where it's more
40:56
populated, they've been arresting and deporting people for running
40:59
businesses like without- Oh, no kidding.
41:02
Yeah, it's very illegal to- Interesting … to do commerce and, and do a business
41:05
in Thailand without- Huh … permission.
41:06
It's super strict now.
41:08
And so it's like this idea of like, you know, I feel like I could
41:10
make this really cool bar of soap.
41:13
You know, you craft it in your kitchen.
41:15
Yeah.
41:15
You, you produce eight.
41:16
Yeah.
41:16
And you just, you just- You sell it … go out and sell the damn thing.
41:18
Right.
41:19
Go to the market with it.
41:19
And I think there's something very, you know, it's… There's something
41:21
very entrepreneurial about the culture, even though I feel like business
41:25
education and how companies work is not nearly as up to date here.
41:31
Uh, in fact, I was talking to my lawyer.
41:32
Right.
41:33
Then he goes, "Can I ask you something?" I go, "Yeah." He goes, "How do I build
41:36
this company to sell it?" I go, "What?" I say, "Well, you gotta, like, build a lead
41:41
system that doesn't involve you." Mm-hmm.
41:42
"You need to build operations that doesn't involve you. And then when
41:45
you can be out of it for a few months without touching anything, you've
41:48
installed that many systems and people, then, you know, it's sellable."
41:52
But he goes, "Yeah, but there's no market for it here." Like, in Canada, there's,
41:56
you know, private equity, there's Flippa, there's like- Right, right … it's, it's
41:59
culturally you build a company to sell.
42:01
Right.
42:01
But here it's culturally you build a company to hand it
42:04
down to your- Right … kid.
42:05
Sure.
42:05
And if they don't want it, it just kinda goes by the wayside.
42:09
Right.
42:09
And he was asking me, he was genuinely like, "The education for us…"
42:12
And he, he's a successful guy, but he just said like, "I don't even
42:15
know the first thing about thinking about building this up to sell it.
42:19
I'd love to sell it." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:20
"So I'm not gonna have kids." So, like, even the buying market
42:24
for buying a business here, it's so, such a foreign concept- Huh
42:27
that it's like, "I don't know that I'd be able to sell." That's interesting.
42:29
So it was a very interesting conversation that I hadn't even really
42:33
considered, 'cause- Yeah … you know?
42:35
Yeah, yeah.
42:35
I love stuff like that.
42:36
I also think it's interesting and wonderful, frankly, that you don't…
42:40
I mean, I've been to a lot of countries and there's still, you know, I was
42:42
at, you know, in Moscow years ago, and, you know, you're looking at the
42:45
Red Square, you turn around, there's a mall with a McDonald's in it.
42:48
There's certainly, like Wingstop is weirdly popular for some reason- Yeah
42:51
… that I never will understand, but you don't see a lot of other fast food.
42:54
I mean, you see 'em, but there's not nearly as prevalent.
42:56
And so, and because you have a lot of these, like, local businesses,
42:59
and it's much more charming.
43:00
Like, in the States, anywhere you go, it's always the same, because
43:05
it's the same goddamn businesses every- it's Target, Walmart, KFC.
43:09
Jimmy John's.
43:09
Like, one thing about the whole, like, community supporting community,
43:13
neighbors supporting neighbors thing, it's like when you need to get your
43:16
stuff washed, you go to this laundry guy.
43:19
Right.
43:19
He's your neighborhood laundry guy.
43:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:21
You need the, like, the torta guy, he's here.
43:24
The beer guy is here.
43:26
Right.
43:26
And like, you, you just buy and do commerce and support
43:30
within your community.
43:32
You know, it's interesting, 'cause I think, think in Canada and the US,
43:35
Amazon is murdering small businesses.
43:37
Yep.
43:38
Absolutely.
43:38
Like, if that's why you're seeing the same place everythi- everywhere, because,
43:41
like, it's between Amazon and then the big box stores, and then nobody else can
43:44
afford, because this whole, this idea of, "Yeah, I'll shop local," no you don't.
43:49
You have 30 package coming a week on Amazon.
43:51
What are you talking about?
43:52
Mm-hmm.
43:52
Yeah.
43:52
And although it's here, and although people use it, Amazon and, and those
43:56
things, but, like, there's still this, this- idea that, like, I'm gonna keep
44:02
my money in my neighborhood, support my neighbors, like we'll, you know.
44:06
And I, I l- I love that.
44:07
I love how every neighborhood… I mean, this area's a little bit harder
44:11
'cause it's- Yeah … so dense.
44:12
Yeah.
44:13
But a lot of, like, more suburban areas, uh, they do.
44:16
They've got the, like, the guy or the girl that does each of the
44:20
things, and it's in your little hub.
44:21
Like, even the neighborhood we're in has that.
44:24
And, like, there might be a couple competitors, but- Right
44:27
but that's where everybody's shopping- Right … all the time.
44:29
Right, right, right.
44:29
Yeah.
44:30
I love it.
44:30
I imagine it's somewhat what New York City was 50 to 100 years ago.
44:34
You know what I mean?
44:34
Yeah.
44:35
Uh, which is why I do wonder what it'll look like here.
44:37
Of course, the city's sinking into the ground, so who knows,
44:39
maybe there'll be a canals again.
44:40
'Cause I don't know what they're gonna do about that situation.
44:43
Like, it's interesting to me that the, one of the biggest cities in
44:46
the entire world ended up being built in such an unfortunate place.
44:50
A foot a year.
44:51
A foot.
44:51
You don't, a feet, you know, whatever, millimeters or something.
44:54
I, I use feet.
44:55
I'm Canadian, so it's- Oh, is it Canadian?
44:57
I get you.
44:57
Does Ca- Canada use feet too?
44:58
We do.
44:59
Oh, all right.
44:59
Yeah.
44:59
Wow, I didn't know that.
45:01
Do you use f- f- Fahrenheit?
45:02
We, for measurement we use feet and inches.
45:04
All right.
45:05
And then, uh- Which is i- I mean, it's idiotic, feet and inches,
45:07
if you really think about it.
45:08
Horrible.
45:08
It's, it's stupid.
45:09
But, like, it's so trained into my brain that when I go to convert to
45:12
centimeters, it's such a struggle.
45:13
It's very hard.
45:14
I, yeah, I can't do it.
45:15
Celsius to Fahrenheits or Fahrenheit to Celsius is pretty easy.
45:18
Reasonable.
45:18
And frankly, I think, I have this theory that, like, weathermen or weatherwomen,
45:22
weatherpeople in countries that use Celsius have a much easier job,
45:25
'cause you don't have to be specific.
45:26
You c- it's like a ballpark, right?
45:28
You say th- 30 degrees, it's gonna be, you know, you've got, uh, like three or four
45:31
degrees Ce- Fahrenheit that it's gonna… Anyway, I don't know why I mentioned
45:35
that, but I think it's interesting.
45:36
How long do you think you're gonna be here?
45:37
Good question.
45:38
So I recently got married, um, and- Congratulations … we just
45:43
met, we just met in, in April of last year, so it went s- Wow
45:46
it went really fast.
45:48
Mm-hmm.
45:48
And everyone in my family was like, "Whoa, like, are you, is everything
45:51
okay? What's going on?" Yeah.
45:52
"Did you get her pregnant?" Yeah.
45:53
Like, "What happened?" 'Cause I was a very single guy for a long time, although I
45:57
was in long-term, long-term, long-term, and then super single, and then- Right
46:01
you know what it is?
46:01
It was like we connected, and she was this independent, happy, take it or
46:09
leave it with you 'cause I've got a great life- So if you wanna come into
46:14
my world, if you wanna come into my life, you better make my life better.
46:17
Right.
46:18
But I don't need anything from you, and I can handle everything on my own.
46:20
She had a phenomenal life where she was.
46:22
So, like, that was very attractive.
46:24
You don't find- For sure … that all the time.
46:25
For sure.
46:26
Someone who's, like, very independent, like, didn't need a person.
46:29
Yeah.
46:29
She was good to go.
46:30
But yeah, we just connected on so many levels and, you know, I think
46:34
our upbringings were similar even though it was Canada versus Russia.
46:36
Right.
46:37
Our value systems are very similar, what we wanted of life, how we
46:40
wanna live, how we wanna travel.
46:42
Everything was so- Mm-hmm … the same.
46:44
Yeah.
46:44
And I was like, "You know, we could, we could drag this out for another year
46:47
and, like, wait for the air quotes, you know, responsible or the, the
46:51
normal amount of time to wait," but I'm like, "I don't, I don't want to."
46:53
Yeah.
46:53
"I just wanna start building our life." And so- Yeah … we said, "Yeah, let's
46:56
do it." But it brings up a couple of challenges in that her family's in Russia.
47:01
Right.
47:01
She lived in Vietnam for a decade- Right … so her whole life is there.
47:04
Right.
47:04
This is her first stint on this side of the planet.
47:07
Oh, no kidding.
47:07
So we are getting her residency through spousal- Uh-huh
47:10
which we're gonna have soon.
47:11
In two years she'll have permanent, basically just automatically gets
47:14
it- Yeah, that helps … 'cause we're married and I'm a resident.
47:16
Yeah.
47:16
So we do have to come back and be here for a few years, 'cause I'd
47:20
like her to get a Mexican passport.
47:21
Right.
47:22
'Cause the Russian passport, and with that war going on and the sanctions, is
47:25
like- Do you have a Mexican passport?
47:27
Uh, no.
47:28
I'm, I'm eligible for it.
47:29
I could get it anytime.
47:30
How do you get eligible for a Mexican passport?
47:32
So within two years of getting your permanent residency- Okay … if
47:37
you're in the country for 18 months out of the 24, you have to pass,
47:42
um, a history test and you have to prove, uh, language proficiency.
47:46
Okay.
47:47
And that's it.
47:47
If you can speak and you know the history, uh- Oh … and you've been a resident and
47:51
you, you're up to date with everything here, they'll give you a passport.
47:53
Okay.
47:53
So I will be getting it when she gets it.
47:55
Mm. And so in two years we have to, like, be back here for two years.
47:59
Huh.
47:59
But I don't know in the meantime, like, are we gonna- Yeah, yeah, yeah
48:02
do some more of Asia.
48:03
We s- she still has all her stuff over there.
48:05
Right.
48:05
Um, you know- Stuff … and because we're here on a, a shorter term basis she's,
48:09
like, you know, hasn't met a ton of friends, hasn't d- Yeah, it's, it's hard
48:12
… delved into life- Yeah … as much.
48:14
But I think, you know, this is a great test, the, the three and a
48:17
half months that we're gonna be here, where it's like she can see
48:20
it, she can decide if she likes it.
48:21
Mm-hmm.
48:22
If she decides it's not for her, tough loss for me 'cause I love it here.
48:25
But I think, uh, she's warming up very, very quickly to it and, uh- That's good
48:30
… sees what I see in it and, and there's again these similarities to Vietnam.
48:34
For sure, yeah, yeah.
48:34
So I think it doesn't feel as foreign to her.
48:36
That helps.
48:36
Yeah, yeah.
48:36
But, you know, until she learns the language, she's in the process.
48:39
Mm-hmm.
48:39
And until she, you know, makes a friend group and finds this and
48:42
this and this- Mm-hmm … you know, we'll have to, we'll have to see.
48:45
But we're gonna go back to Asia in September for six months.
48:49
And then in March of next year maybe Cape Town, and then probably
48:54
float back here at some point.
48:55
I don't know.
48:55
Yeah, I find that it's easier often to make friends in expat communities than
48:59
it is, or immigrant communities if you will, than it is just in my own country
49:04
because people are more open to it and looking for that connection that they
49:07
don't have, which I kinda love about it.
49:08
I always liked living in countries where I'm an outsider.
49:11
I don't know what, what it is, but I really, I, I enjoy that
49:13
experience 'cause every conversation feels like an airport bar.
49:17
You know what I mean?
49:17
Yeah.
49:18
Anyway, last question I ask everybody on the podcast, uh, what
49:21
do you think happens when we die?
49:23
I think we're dead.
49:24
Really?
49:25
Yeah.
49:25
That's it?
49:26
Yeah.
49:26
Yeah, I don't, I don't have a specific belief in an
49:29
afterlife or a spirit or a soul.
49:32
I think I, I'm, really believe in science, and science doesn't leave a lot
49:37
of room for it- Mm-hmm … necessarily.
49:39
Although it is, you know, there's a lot of science on consciousness
49:41
that's, like, pretty weird.
49:43
Yeah.
49:43
I feel like I've already made my bed.
49:44
If there's a hell, I'm probably going 'cause I don't, I didn't
49:47
bow down, so- Right, right, right
49:48
it is what it is at this point.
49:50
Right, right, right.
49:50
Right, right.
49:51
All right.
49:52
Anything you wanna promote, Mike?
49:53
Sure, yeah.
49:54
Um, you can find my stuff at solopreneurcoach.co.
49:59
Uh, I help people with business-to-business offers, uh, learn
50:03
how to maximize what they're doing for profit, and how to sell what they do for
50:08
more because most people are undervaluing themself, which makes them underprice
50:14
themselves, which is- I can relate
50:16
a really shitty- Yeah … shitty trap to be in, and I, I don't
50:18
think it needs to be that.
50:19
And coming from someone who never fathomed entrepreneurship- Mm-hmm … I was always
50:24
like, you know, I worked in a corporate insurance job- I'm sorry … um, and
50:29
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah before.
50:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:31
You know, so it's been 14 years now.
50:33
Uh, and at the beginning, I was stuck in this like, "Well, this guy is
50:36
my competitor, and he's been around for longer, so his price better
50:39
be higher than my price." Mm-hmm.
50:41
And when I realized, oh, wait.
50:42
No, that's just how you position it, how you get it out the door, and, and
50:47
you can actually just charge whatever you want as long as you do good work and
50:50
people perceive the value to be that.
50:52
Right.
50:52
And there's some really, you know, specific tactics and, and ways
50:55
to do it in a, in an honest way.
50:57
I think if you're not that good, you shouldn't sell it for more.
51:00
Um, but if you can- Right … if you're, if, if you have a talent and you have
51:03
the ability to help someone solve a business problem with your skill, um, you
51:07
should, you know, value it the right way.
51:08
Yeah, I think that's extr- I mean, I've been a freelancer on and off for years,
51:11
and I can completely relate to that.
51:12
It's very, very easy to undervalue yourself, especially when work
51:16
is light and you're trying to get work and so forth and so on.
51:18
But I often think though, having been on the other side of it, like
51:21
hiring people, people who lowball, you don't often wanna hire them because
51:25
you think that they suck, right?
51:27
Um- Yeah … 'cause there's a value proposition to how much you cost, so.
51:31
Here's, here's the challenge, is that nobody wants to pay more.
51:34
They like the idea of paying less- Of course … but it's because of
51:38
the, the current nature of, of where their perceived value on the thing is.
51:42
Uh-huh.
51:43
So if somebody comes in and they say, "Here's a list of the 20 things I
51:46
do to manage your website"- Mm-hmm
51:48
and someone else comes in and says, "Here's the 20 things," and they're the
51:50
same things- Mm-hmm … I'm like, "Okay, I mean, who's the best price?" Right.
51:53
But if that person can really make me understand the value of, "Hey,
51:58
if your website's improved, these things will happen for your business.
52:02
It, these are the outcomes.
52:03
These are the results," like, now my perceived value of the issue is higher,
52:08
and I actually wanna pay more, but nobody out of the gate wants to pay more.
52:11
We think we want the cheaper option- Of course … until we're presented in the
52:14
right way by the right person, and then we're happy to pay more because it's
52:17
gonna give us the thing that we desire.
52:19
Right.
52:20
Right.
52:21
Mike Moll, thanks for coming on, man.
52:22
I appreciate you.
52:23
Thanks, Jef.
52:27
And there you have it, my conversation with Mike Moll.
52:32
Thanks once again, Mike, for coming on the podcast.
52:35
Very much appreciate it.
52:36
If you'd like to follow Mike on Instagram, and I know you would, you can follow him
52:41
at themikemoll, T-H-E-M-I-K-E-M-O-L-L.
52:47
Go do that immediately.
52:48
After you do that, follow my podcast on Instagram, @onefjefpod.
52:52
That's O-N-E-F-J-E-F-P-O-D.
52:55
And then if you want to, go to TikTok, follow the podcast on
52:58
TikTok as well, @onefjefpodcast.
53:01
You have to add the cast to that one.
53:04
So you've just listened to this episode, and now you're thinking, "Ah, there's
53:09
a question I have for Jef or his guest that was not answered in the podcast."
53:15
Well, you know what you can do?
53:17
You can write the podcast an email at onefjefpod@gmail.com, or better yet,
53:24
you can leave a voicemail for the podcast, and that's it, 1-669-241-5882.
53:38
Oh, the last note did not work out, but the rest of it did.
53:42
Am I right?
53:43
I am right.
53:45
Call that number.
53:46
I'll play your voicemail on the air if you leave a good one.
53:48
Even if you leave a bad one, I'll play it.
53:51
Because I love you, that's why.
53:53
Because I love you.
53:55
And I will end this episode, as I do many episodes, with a quote from
53:59
the late, the great Rumi, known by his parents as Rumiford, known by
54:06
his friends as The Room Machine.
54:11
"Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world.
54:16
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself
54:21
I'll see you next week.
54:22
Very good, Jeffrey