Latest / Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360 / #486: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices | How DragonPass Is Elevating Travel Loyalty Through Trust, Technology, and Time

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#486: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices | How DragonPass Is Elevating Travel Loyalty Through Trust, Technology, and Time · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Good afternoon, good morning.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Mark Johnson from Loyalty360.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hope everyone's happy, safe, and well.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Want to welcome you back to another edition of our Leaders in Customer Loyalty series.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Industry Voices podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: In these episodes, we speak with the leading agencies, technology partners, and consultants in customer channel and brand loyalty about the technology trends and best practices that impact a brand's ability to drive unique experiences, enhance engagement, but most importantly, impact customer loyalty.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Travel, as we know, is one of the most aspirational, experiential, and emotionally rewarding activities that individuals and families can partake in.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Even when traveling for business, expectations, especially for the frequent and elite level traveler, are that the experiences should be personalized, immersive, and emotionally engaging.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Business travelers have distinct expectations by data, their past experiences, and unique contextual factors.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Travel brands must understand these evolving expectations and how quickly they are changing.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Loyalty lounges and the sky clubs of the past are changing and transforming radically over the past few years.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Airlines, credit card companies, and organizations like Dragon Pass are collaborating to create unique differentiated lounge experiences and technologies that enhance emotional connections and deliver memorable moments of all driving emotional loyalty.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're going to explore the concurrent state of travel and dive into a very unique customer loyalty study that highlights key behavioral attributes marketers should be aware of.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Trust, rewards, simplicity, recognition, and exclusivity.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: These are all critical drivers of emotional loyalty.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to be joined by Andrew Harrison-chin.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: He's the chief marketing officer at Dragon Pass.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to discuss why brands should prioritize these emotional triggers and how they can better connect with today's traveler.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Andrew.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for taking the time to join us.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: How are you today?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Very well, thank you.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me on the show.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for taking the time to join us.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: First off, can you tell us a little bit about uh Dragon Pass, what you guys do, how you do it?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we uh Dragon Pass is a technology company.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: It aggregates uh travel and lifestyle loyalty solutions all around the world.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh these solutions are generally offered to customers via a loyalty program, whether it be your bank, credit card, airline.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we're very fortunate enough to serve over 40 million customers in over 100 countries globally.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, supply chains are incredibly fragmented, they're super complex.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is critical for us is how we simplify that complexity to create a seamless customer experience for our clients and of course our customers.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and a little bit about you.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to know a little bit more about you personally, uh, kind of your role at Dragon Pass, what you do there, and then maybe some roles that led up to kind of your current role.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I joined Dragon Pass uh 10 years ago, um, right at the beginning of the international expansion.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I was brought in to lead the international expansion as Global MD at the time, which translated then later into CEO.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then recently, at the beginning of this year, I transitioned across uh to group as the CMO, uh, responsible for being a brand ambassador for the company, supporting it in terms of how we are received externally, working more on the business than in the business.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but prior to that, I um I worked on the structured rates and inflation desk at Barclays Capital.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I then ran Package Bank Accounts Division at Barclays Retail and Corporate.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So very much in the latter role, focused on benefits and the challenges, particularly that financial institutions face between benefits offered to customers.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I see you recently achieved uh a$1 billion valuation.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So congrats on that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: In your space, uh, at least in the airline space, right?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: In the lounge space, there's a there's a great deal of competition.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, groups like Collinson, the airlines themselves, a lot of uh credit card uh programs have uh high-tier programs now as well.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're you know upgrading their lounges, everything's all about experience now.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how do you compete or coexist or complement uh these other offerings?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good question.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, first of all, I think we're very lucky to have some great competitors in this market, some great companies really pushing us to constantly and improve and innovate, right?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's always healthy.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And with more focus than ever on clients, consciously trying to drive loyalty and engagement.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are plenty of opportunities to go around for everyone.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's fundamentally put in the customer first year, which I think is really good.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so currently today uh we do compete very heavily with companies like uh Collinson, particularly on supply chain and enablement of our global networks to clients.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but where we more closely collaborate is with the airlines, for example, where they may want to offer their lounges in our global network, which allows them to generate additional revenue, or they may want to offer a lot of our ancillary services to their customers in which they can sort of burn their points on those services.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Naturally, for the likes of the credit cards, we work very much symbiotically with them to co-create solutions, whether it be the Visa Airport Companion or the MasterCard Travel Pass, in which we act in the back end to aggregate all of the different benefits and suppliers, particularly in the airport ecosystem, that allows them to offer this seamless customer experience to their clients and to their customers.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you talked about a little bit, uh Dragon Pass, uh, you know, they work globally, operates globally.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you connect travelers to lounges, airport dining, and different experiences uh, you know, through digital access.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you are actually becoming kind of an OEM almost for airline lounges, right?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Bringing the best of a breed in a number of different areas to help the you know the airlines themselves and their customers.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying our best.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a long way to go.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, travel is doing incredibly well, and many lounges have become a victim of their own success.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: As we've seen, you know, with Amex Centurion, for example, there's there's cues out the lounges.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, really for us, it's how we support partners on creating options, uh, how we create capacity management systems that allow customers better transparency and access, much like if you turn up to a Michelin star restaurant on a Saturday night, uh, maybe different for you, Mark, but for me, they're gonna turn me away nine out of ten times if I haven't got a reservation.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really around how we manage those expectations and work better with partners to ensure that continuity of service.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that really is becoming a bit of a challenge in in the lounge industry, particularly the busier hubs where actually the airports haven't been able to expand with more space in the lounges.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: But we are we're trying our best to continue to improve the customer experience with partners.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what types of customers is dragon pass targeting, or you know, is there a kind of a best customer profile?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good question.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: It really varies.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for us, it's around how we offer a premium customer experience, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that is someone who's been saving up for 20 years to go on that big trip, or whether it's someone who travels weekly.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: The way we see it is that fundamentally we want to be offering exceptional solutions that deliver quality at a competitive price, right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds like marketing terminology there, but I I am the CMO.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: But fundamentally, we are looking to offer solutions to customers who want to use them.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that really varies as we see through our loyalty index, which I know we're gonna touch on later, is you know, the traditional demographics are on the segmentation, is not what it used to be, right?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Customers are incredibly varying, and we are seeing a huge change in this and how we engage customers.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, it's keeping an open mind in terms of those customers who are gonna travel and do want to use lifestyle benefits to engage with clients, how we um how we target them with relevant solutions.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at the state of travel, you talked about uh travel coming back internationally.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, what are you seeing?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in the US, there's definitely a resurgence business travel.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the more elite uh tier-based travel seems to be doing well.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are you seeing internationally?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's the state of travel?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's very much consistent.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think if we split it into business travel and then your elite tier-based travel that we talk about there.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what we are seeing is the surge in business travel, um, but also more frequently tacking on leisure travel whilst in location, particularly look for longer locations, which is actually very good to see.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, however, with the advent of you know teens and Zoom, there is much more scrutiny on the need to travel from a budget tree perspective.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you generally see these meetings, they're trying to cram a lot more in.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we are seeing that business, but it it's just sort of a more outcome-oriented, more transactional from what we've seen traditionally.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the elite tier-based travel is a really interesting one and it varies starkly on locations and also organizations.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: From our observation, the large hotel chains and some of the airlines, that they're doing it really well in terms of focusing on their particular niche.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: But where they are struggling is when they start to go out of their verticals and try to monetize wider ancillary services, um, the user experience, uh, the relevance, um, the positioning isn't always strong.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we've seen as a large opportunity for improvement.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, excellent.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at uh kind of managing travel experiences, expectations, obviously the the elite tier uh uh that you partner with airlines and and car dischars to help bring to bear are are very important.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: But are are there other groups that uh have interest in kind of different travel experiences, the lounges?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's definitely changed in the US.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm uh platinum on Delta, it's not part of the membership anymore, so you have to kind of obviously uh uh buy into that uh subscription.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So things have definitely changed.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is, you know, how are you, you know, or what are you seeing in regard to maybe different tiers, different demographics, and how they are uh engaging with with travel type offerings?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it really varies um across different countries.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you a good example is we have an ultra-high net worth client here in the UK, whereas you know, these these clients, these customers need to have millions of pounds to have a bank account.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: However, um over 60% of their customers are traveling economy class to Europe, uh, generally via EasyJet to their second, third, and believe it or not, their fourth home, right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so actually, these customers aren't traveling business class, so they haven't got access to lounge, they haven't got access to fast track.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, we're a perfect bolt-on for the economy class flights that they're taking, because these customers generally, and for most people, the most valuable asset is time.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So what we are seeing is these different trends whereby believing ultra-high net worth always travels business class is not the case.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what we're seeing is, you know, Gen Z, for example, in many instances, some locations actually prefer to go to dining rather than to lounges.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're seeing in certain locations, and it really depends on capacity constraints, Singapore, for example, or Dubai, you know, the fast track lane is so efficient there, so customers aren't as engaged to purchase that up front or to use it as one of their redemptions from us.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas locations like Kuwait, for example, London Gatwick, Manchester Airport, we're seeing huge engagement in fast track as a solution.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what we are seeing is customers have become a lot more demanding around sort of their time and simplicity.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the evolving trends that you talk about are very different globally.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we could spend all day talking about that, but those are just a few of the the tidbits.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully they give you some insight.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's definitely uh very uh good to hear.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it it it's it seems that uh there's the not the unanimity as there once was, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit more diverse and uh kind of fractured and how organizations and brands should be managing that.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it could be slightly more complex as well, just kind of understanding what a customer has interest in.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: It may not be the same based on what they look like from a transactional or even economic perspective in the past.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, completely.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're actually seeing it with certain card types and regions whereby, you know, you may have the elite tier status in terms of a card, but actually you've got someone spending a quarter of a million dollars on one of the lower tiers.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's because actually they choose not to go to the higher tiers.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's how you start to then position the right benefits to these customers.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the solutions we've worked on with some providers is spend-based rewards or action-based rewards, is regardless of where they sit, how do you make sure that they're engaging with you?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then you reward them with those behaviors for the actions that they've taken.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we start to drive the right type of engagement for customers rather than just giving them benefits and hoping they're going to use it?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Transparency is absolutely critical, and relevance and engagement are absolutely critical.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, excellent.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you look at uh kind of customer loyalty, very important.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you guys also uh just did a a study on uh customer loyalty.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about the study?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what made you conduct the study and at a high level, what uh brands can take away?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's been super fun actually in terms of um conducting the study.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's into uh into the dynamics that define transactional relationships and lifelong commitments between a consumer and a brand, right?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we did a spin on the the five languages of love, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure if you're familiar with the test, but it's how people give and how people receive love, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to question how do people give loyalty and how do they want to receive loyalty, right?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So through our psychological modeling, we identified five languages of loyalty.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it was trust, it was rewards, it was simplicity, uh, recognition, and exclusivity.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um the reason we did it, uh, being completely candid is curiosity.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: We were trying to disprove our assumptions and really understand our customers better because traditionally we've had this maniacal focus on understanding our customers, but there is a much wider audience out there that we could potentially be serving.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we have not put enough focus in the past on trying to understand how do we unlock that potential audience.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but maybe worth going into the five languages.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um because it starts with the basics, right?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what we found is the highest achieving language, uh, which was good really good to see, was trust, 37%.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just doing the basics right.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Customer service, right?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Compliance, brand recognition.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know that if someone has your data, it's not going to end up on the dark web.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: When something goes wrong, you can pick up the phone and you can get an answer, right?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they can solve it and actually turn a bad experience into a positive experience, which was which was really good to see.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: The second one down was rewards, right?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: How do you create relevant benefits?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really uh where corporates need to lean in a bit more, is to understand the basic customer needs.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: What are those customer needs?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Are these rewards relevant to what a customer is going to do?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who never travels, right?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: For example, um, lounge and fast track wouldn't be relevant, but actually local gym classes and coffees, maybe, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we curate and create the right rewards for the right customers?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then really simplicity.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Simplicity came in at 20%.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how is this really easy to use?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is this sounds very basic, but it can often be very difficult given the complexity technologically across many, many organizations.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've got up to nine different integration approaches on fast track alone.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: How do you take all that complexity of all these different legacy systems with companies around the world and consolidate it into a platform and monitor it to make sure that there is continuity of service so that customers can get access to these benefits?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a big thing.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: We do uh an annual uh uh emotional loyalty report uh with uh a number of our suppliers, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and emotional loyalty is something that's very important to brands, but it's a process, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and oftentimes it's one of the processes that kind of get put on the back burner when there's some financial considerations that that may be you know, headwinds or tailwinds that may be impacting things.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that process you mentioned is very, very important, and brands that stick to the process and have uh kind of the insight that they can derive from it are the ones that seem to be, you know, winning in that regard.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't agree with you more.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, it's just truly understanding the customer need.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So uh having been at Barclays previously, we always had a dichotomy between the customer experience and commercials, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do you drive as much customer engagement without breaking the bank, basically?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And really what we've done is we've worked with clients to understand what are the key drivers that generate them revenue, and then actually how can you start to reward benefits based on the right behaviors?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is through integrations into their systems, getting trigger-based rewards.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: It could be through spend, it could be through deposits, it could be something through acquisition, cross-sell.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, actually, how do we start to work more holistically with organizations to create a customer profile?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you run that customer pretty much as a PL, not to sound really transactional here.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Understand the emotional levers that are going to get them to engage with you over another company and reward them for those behaviors.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then hopefully there's a bit of a flywheel there that continues further engagement.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in terms of in terms of back to the languages, that starts with being able to have good customer service if something doesn't go right, relevant rewards and really easy to redeem.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and then actually it's that recognition part was was the the fourth language that we had.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and being able to personalize it.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Mark, thank you so much for spending uh at um you know Walmart today.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a free coffee for you the next time you're at Starbucks.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you're a Starbucks fan, we we go through the data, we interest tag, we understand how to position the right uh benefit to you.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and on the loyalty languages, the last but definitely not least um was exclusivity.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we like to call it surprise and delights is something that you don't generally get access to.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I was really surprised that this only came in at 5%, but I was actually with a client, a US client out in Saudi Arabia, and they were looking to curate a supercar event in which you'd pay just over$300.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh essentially in Saudi Arabia they said, this this works out in the States, it's not going to work here.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we said, but but why not?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, because most of these people, despite these cars not being released yet, have them in their garages already.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that sort of form of exclusivity and how that is applied is is very difficult.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we found that actually it didn't translate as well uh through the loyalty language as we expected.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it was great to see that trust was number one.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about a little bit.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh were there a couple things that you thought you may see going into the study that that you did not see, or maybe even the reverse thing, the things that you didn't think you would see that you kind of ended up seeing?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um well, exclusivity, I really thought it was gonna test higher.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people, the special backdoor entrance to a Taylor Swift concert, or you know, a supercar before it's been released.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, these all sound really grand and amazing.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, wow, definitely people are gonna are gonna prioritize exclusivity.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really surprised to see that only in at 5%.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: But what I was really pleasantly surprised was the fact that people don't take customer support for granted.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I actually just spoke to a colleague today who's shifted air carrier to Singapore Airlines from uh another airline, which I won't say, uh, because just because of the customer support, he said they were absolutely exceptional, and that was the reason he now wants to fly with them.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's pretty indifferent between the two airlines, in my opinion.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I was pleasantly surprised to see that customer support is still appreciated and acknowledged in terms of driving loyalty and stickiness.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, excellent.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: In the report, uh talked about convenience and personalization being essential in travel experience.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about it uh pretty consistently throughout this interview.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how does Dragon Pass, you know, leverage technology, the process, mobile apps, real-time access uh to meet these rising traveler expectations?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um so personalization stems to clients and to customers.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if I maybe just segment those two.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we need to provide our clients with technology options, uh, whether it be in their environment or our own, that allows them to fulfill what they need to fulfill, whether it's APIs, SDKs, whether we create the apps, uh, whether they use our app.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then from a customer perspective, it's really truly understanding the customer better.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you do that?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's through the right data segmentation, it's through interest tagging, customer feedback uh reviews and customer feedback and our customer support, feeding that back into product improvement, uh, and A-B testing is obviously incredibly important to constantly improve the service.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and we touched on it a bit earlier, is where clients really lean on us to help them overcome that dichotomy between between customer experience and commercials, is how do you find the balance beat between creating uh loyalty without shifting into the red?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and that's what we touched on, those sort of action-based rewards, spam-based rewards.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: How do we start to utilize that?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And where there's a lot of investment that we're doing at the moment is AI, but fundamentally AI needs to start, as our CHRO always says, um AI needs to start with intelligence.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really around how you get the right people in the room to understand the psychological levers that drive loyalty and how you start to build relevant solutions.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then really the ability to continuously evolve and iterate.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And because we deal with so many different companies outside of our ecosystem, it's also the ability to monitor.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So where they are having challenges from an infrastructural perspective, how we support them on that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Atlanta, for example, we actually give one of our terminals for them to use.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in Spain, for example, we actually integrate into their systems.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Milan, for example, we use dynamic code.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, really that flexibility of being able to consolidate everything into our platform so that our clients have full access without needing to do any of these complex uh integrations, um, with all the compliance, the data standards, whether it be Saudi, Uzbekistan, India, you know, all of that, we look after it.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's really where technology plays into it is the sexy stuff, you know, customer segmentation, but also the more, the less sexy stuff like compliance, data storage, tokenization, payments, uh, and access.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, basically creating a as seamless a solution for clients as well as for our customers.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's a big push right now for value.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's a big discussion we have within the brand community, the member community of Loyalty 360.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that value can take uh kind of different form factors, right?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: It can be convenience, it can be simplicity, it can be discounts, it can be leveraging points uh within a program to kind of help them buy more groceries or buy more uh you know, gas, fuel, whatever it may be.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh travel's a little different as we know, but what are you seeing with regard to kind of the value, how it's being looked at, or kind of uh maybe even defined in different opportunities?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what personally for me, what I've seen a lot recently is time and convenience.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what we're seeing is that actually people are willing to pay more for certainty, transparency, and frictionless experiences.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we had a client actually on points redemption where um if you purchased a hotel room, you got points for it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And actually the hotel room was marginally more expensive you went direct, but they got the points, and they were inclined to purchase it to get the points, which they then wanted to translate into value elsewhere.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we are seeing is really that simplicity, the overall value creation and transparency around that.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and time is also a big one in terms of time and convenience.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you partner with uh leading banks, airlines, and travel brands.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what types of partnerships are most effective do you think in driving both customer acquisition and long-term engagement?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, that's another area brands kind of struggle with, uh, especially in the US, where there's been a pullback and in some of the uh, you know, uh airlines and their issuance of points and you know, partnership programs.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's obviously not the most uh you know frequent type of partnership, but you know, what are you seeing in regard to partnerships?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: What's working?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: How can brands leverage partnerships to drive unique engagement?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I wouldn't necessarily put it to a particular industry, right?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's airlines, there's different companies doing it better in in different areas.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would keep it maybe a bit more top line in terms of those companies that keep the message really clear and simple, easy to access the benefits, or to purchase the offerings that are relevant and prompt customers to drive the right behaviors and reward them for it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the companies that are doing really, really well.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we touched on it a bit earlier with some of the airlines doing really well in terms of you getting points and driving engagement and upgrades, and when you're in a certain tier, you know, there's a bowl of fruit waiting for you or a bottle of wine, these really nice touches, the surprise and delights, which they're doing really, really well.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, the access to monetize those ancillary services, they aren't doing as well.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, that's really where this golden opportunity is, is they're trying to offer these tours in cities, they're trying to offer different solutions in cities, but they aren't really doing it very well.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that really comes down to understanding your customer better and that that it's sort of interest tagging.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: But those who do understand their customers well, within those respective, you know, banks, airlines, and travel brands, those are the ones that we are seeing better acquisition and better long-term engagement and that sort of better brand value.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say it really differs through organizations rather than um rather than sectors.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we've talked a little bit about the role of the airport experience uh in in uh a number of different uh areas, right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see it evolving?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: It went from purely functional spaces, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: A place to get some food, place to relax a little bit, uh, to more experiential base, something uh that may have a connotative, emotive uh appeal or kind of a uh aspirational appeal.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where do you see airport experiences uh kind of going forward?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's I I in my opinion, I would really see that experiential part playing out, and we are seeing that.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we ran a piece recently um in which it was layover cations, we called it.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what we are seeing is some of the transit hubs, particularly Dubai, you actually have people consciously taking time to go shopping there.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: You consciously have people taking time to engage at the airport and obviously outside of the airport, and actually many instances whereby someone is willing to take a layover at an airport because there's a lot more to do.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: The example I'll give you is I was in Bahrain this weekend.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had a layover in Bahrain, and it was so well equipped for families.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: There was a kids' area, there were trampolines, there were PlayStations, is that if I had to check out of a hotel early, I wouldn't mind spending five hours there because I could let my son riot in this closed safe area and just let him be as feral as possible.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whilst actually they had exceptional lounge access there, the Pearl Lounge, great dining options.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what we are seeing is airports are looking to get either via layover or customers who are obviously checking out of their hotels early to hang around the airports more.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, that experiential part is really leaning into that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely particularly from a family perspective.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing a lot more investment in family spaces.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that makes perfect sense.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh because that can be a good thing or a bad thing, right?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a bunch of three-year-olds kind of running around throughout the club, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: The this uh that can alienate people, but having kind of a dedicated area for them to play that can, you know, uh kind of cordon them off, kind of control the noise, control the chaos, I think is is would be obviously advantageous uh pretty significantly for the the airlines and everyone involved.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Completely.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, completely.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am I almost I don't really like to take my son into a lounge because I'm conscious of the chaos he causes for everyone else who just wants to have a stiff drink and a bit of peace and quiet.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, completely aligned on that.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh looking forward, you know, what's next for Dragon Pass?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you are working on new partnerships, uh, you know, what are you most excited about going forward uh about the platform and into 2026?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm really excited.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we touched on it throughout the the um throughout this call is investment in technology.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, both from an internal perspective, we've got a lot of investment in automations, RPAs, actually, how do we maximize operational efficiencies, uh, particularly in AI.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we set up an AI office earlier this year.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some incredible individuals who've joined us, and really that utilization of how do we get better data models, how do we start to understand our data?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Better, but then actually the investment in customer-facing solutions using AI actually to engage customers better with relevant solutions.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: How do we start to automate parts of our supply chain to actually mean that we can get more suppliers onboarding more quickly?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And sort of an investment, particularly in the lifestyle space.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we've recently conducted an investment in partnership into an organization that offers just under a thousand wellness classes around the world, whether it be beach football in Rio or Bollywood dancing in in Singapore.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're really looking to lean into a space of more lifestyle and travel benefits that cater to everyone, regardless of where in the world they are.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really that investment in technology is an enabler to give our customers more.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Technology is an enabler to give our suppliers more.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then fundamentally that means our clients get a lot more as well.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Andrew, thank you very much for taking the time to join us today.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was great getting to know you.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was great learning more about Dragon Pass and how you're making a unique impact in the travel industry and also the five triggers of emotional loyalty.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: That was great learning, and I'm sure every brand that listens to this is going to take something away from that.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for sharing.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, my pleasure.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I want to thank everyone for taking the time to tune in to our Leaders and Customer Loyalty Podcast.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't already, please subscribe to the Leaders in Customer Loyalty Podcast.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Follow Loyalty360 on YouTube and LinkedIn.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: The links are provided below.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And make sure you join us every Tuesday for another edition of our Industry Voices podcast.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, have a wonderful day.