Latest / Empower Your Menopause / Episode 102: What's Really Behind Your Fatigue?

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Episode 102: What's Really Behind Your Fatigue? · Empower Your Menopause

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, here's something many of us might recognise.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know the feeling when you've had a full night's sleep, but you wake up the next morning feeling as though you haven't slept at all, or you get to three o'clock in the afternoon and you wouldn't be like, How on earth you're going to make it through the rest of the day, never mind everything else you've still got left to do.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a woman over 40, chances are someone's already told you that it's the menopause that's at fault, or aging, or that you just need to helpfully get more sleep.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: But fatigue isn't always that simple, and there can be a big difference between being tired after a demanding day and feeling so completely exhausted that even resting doesn't seem to help.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Empower Your Menopause, the podcast all about health, happiness and hormones for women 40 and beyond.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Coach James Ellis.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Coach Julie Medesi.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're talking about something that comes up really frequently in our conversations with women, and that is fatigue.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't just mean feeling a little bit tired at the end of a busy day, but that persistent lack of energy that can make everyday activities just feel absolutely harder and more exhausting than they already are.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the challenges here is that we use the word tired to describe all kinds of different feelings, different experiences.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we might simply just be short on sleep, sometimes we're physically worn out, sometimes it's mental exhaustion or the cumulative effect of trying to manage far too many responsibilities without enough recovery, and that tends to sort of like outline just about every single client we have at Fabulous Beyond Court.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there's something else that might be happening that needs some real attention.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there are hormonal changes that can influence our energy in midlife, of course, but there are also nutritional, medical, psychological, and lifestyle factors to consider as well.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And very often several things are all happening at the same time.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So today we want to look at what distinguishes regular tiredness from more persistent fatigue, what might be contributing to it, and how we can begin addressing those causes without simply adding another dozen things to your already, no doubt, overflowing to-do lists.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think that's probably where we need to begin because before we can talk about what might help, we need to understand a little bit about what this experience feels like.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there's probably no one better that I can think of right now to actually ask about this, but you know, my uh colleague Julie, because Julie's gone through all kinds of tiredness and stage of tiredness at the moment with a house move, with trying to work at the same time, with trying to do everything at 100 miles an hour as ever.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, Julie, there's quite a difference between feeling tired and experiencing the kind of exhaustion that doesn't seem to improve.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, talk us through that a little bit.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a topic I'm extremely familiar with, um, both professionally and personally.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I like to put tiredness into three different buckets.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got ordinary tiredness, if if there is such a thing, um, and that's what happens when you don't get enough sleep, right?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um physical activity, mental activity requires a little more effort, but when you get adequate sleep over the course of a day or two or three days, um, and you're focused on properly nourishing your body and recovery activities, we would expect improvement to happen pretty quickly.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the kind of stuff you can bounce back from, just getting better rest and recovery.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Then we've got fatigue, and fatigue is something that's a lot deeper.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: It might feel disproportionate to the amount of activity you're doing.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, just having to get up and prepare a meal, for example, can feel like a lot of extra effort, more than it probably really is under normal circumstances.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're fatigued, it's quite disruptive to your daily life.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you find it very difficult to concentrate, you feel really unmotivated, probably, and physical capacity is is really lacking in in most activities.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then we go down one more level, and and I would call that exhaustion.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And exhaustion is the level of fatigue that that is so intense that getting up and walking across the room feels like about as much as you can accomplish in a day, right?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the other thing I want to put caveat here, these are not clinical definitions, these are just the way I look at these things because you know when you're when you're fatigued or when you feel exhausted, I mean, there are a lot of different factors underlying this, right?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, but the the main message here is that this kind of persistent fatigue or feelings of exhaustion aren't really resolved by just having an extra lie-in or having a nap.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and especially because there can be, as I said, a lot of underlying conditions or stressors that don't seem to alleviate at all.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: They just, you know, never seem to get a break.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And recovery is going to look a lot different depending on what's causing that.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So someone who's sleep deprived, as we said, may just need to get a few more nights of extra sleep.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody who's have having that chronic overload and that overwhelm that James mentioned James mentioned earlier, um, they might need to find ways to reduce the demands on their time, on their mental energy.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got someone, you know, exhaustion could be related to a medical issue like a thyroid disorder or an iron deficiency or something like that that would require medical treatment.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I have experienced all three of those things, and right now I'm sort of in the middle of uh of fatigue and and you know, going a little past that with everything that's going on.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I did actually in my professional days have a period of severe burnout where I was my doctor wanted to put me into the hospital for a couple of months, but figured I would get better rest at home.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when you're talking about that kind of physical exhaustion, there really are other things that we need to take into consideration.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the reason this is important to understand is because if you're, you know, you're following all following all of the good advice you find online and with Dr.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Google and the internet and and whatnot, and you're still feeling exhausted, maybe you're not doing something wrong, but maybe you haven't actually identified what's causing that fatigue and what's driving that fatigue to continue.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that brings us to a much bigger question.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if fatigue can have so many different causes, why does it seem to be such a common complaint in midlife?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And James, this is this is definitely in your wheelhouse.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I suppose the place to start is let's have a look at what's happening in people's bodies and what happened to their lives after the age of 40 and why that might affect your energy level.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So the important point, as Julie just said, there's not one you universal explanation that actually just sort of like takes over everything, can just explain midlife fatigue away.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: There can be lots of things happening all at the same time, and their effects can obviously build on top of each other.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So a really simple one is you know, you're feeling tired, you want to go to bed early, you have a bad night's sleep, you wake up the next morning feeling even tired, right?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got to be in the middle of the night because you had a hot flush or something like that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing can lead on to another, uh, and then they can build and build and build.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, first of all, hormonal changes they absolutely disrupt sleep.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that fluctuating estrogen and progesterone, particularly during perimenopause, up to the first years of uh menopause can really contribute to loads of symptoms that interfere with sleep and well-being.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the the key ones that we hear reported all the time within those, I don't know, I think we're up to about 3,000 now, symptoms of menopause, according to the latest influenza that I I heard about.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, hot flushes, night sweats, insomnia are all classic, classic perimenopause and early menopause uh symptoms that are reported, right?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they can obviously affect sleep continuity and daytime functioning as well.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing to think about is it's not just the amount of time that you spend in bed that can help with this, but the actual fact that sleep quality is really really important.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so it may be that you are sort of like going to bed, thinking you're getting a good night's sleep, 10 o'clock at night, wake up six in the morning in a good eight hours.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: If that's been disrupted sleep because you've either had anxiety or hot flushes or night sweats or any of the other many contributing factors that can play into it, then that sleep quality is not as good.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Then obviously, you know, if sleep quality is not as good, the time in bed isn't really important.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably better to have five hours of great sleep than eight hours of disrupted sleep.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, menopause isn't the only explanation for pus sleep.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: You also get things like sleep apnea, which tends to increase in midlife.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And for any of our listeners who are having neurodiversity, sleep apnea and neurodiversity seem to be linked increasingly.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: We seem to be seeing that a heck of a lot.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Then you've got things like restless legs, you've got persistent pain or constant pain or chronic pain, maybe from some things.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: You've obviously got stress and anxiety that play into your sleep, and some medications can contribute as well.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, once again, anybody who's neurodiverse or is taking medication, let's say for ADHD, which is actually a stimulant, take that at the wrong time, have a cup of coffee during the daytime, and you are probably not going to be sleeping that night if you're on that stimulant.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, all these things can play into it, and just to give you a sort of some context as to how big this is, there was a meta-analysis study done in 2024.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, meta-analysis, just as a reminder, is the kind of study that looks at all the past studies into one, or as many as they can find, into one issue, tries to discard the ones that they don't think are robust evidence, looks at the ones that have some robust evidence, and then tries to draw a conclusion from all those studies together.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So while you might get a regular study that looks at a thousand people or 50 people, this has again a cumulative effect because they're looking at all the studies.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So this 2024 meta-analysis looked at almost 30,000 women, it was 29,200 and something across 37 studies, and around 50 percent 51% of women who were in those studies experienced poor sleep quality during menopause.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that is more than half.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's not a lot more than half, but it is more than half of women, right?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So the studies did vary in sort of like what they were asking, and things like that, so it's a bit of an estimate, but that's quite a lot, right?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it happens a lot.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: We know that hormones are playing a part.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Then you've obviously got changes in body composition, which are kind of like a byproduct of menopause, but also a byproduct of general midlife, middle-aging, whatever you want to call it.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: We all go through that, man or woman, you know, changes in activity and changing nutritional needs as well.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we talk about it a lot: sarcopenia, muscle mass, and strength declining with age, the older you get, particularly if you're not doing resistance training.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why, if we haven't hammered that home enough right now, your strength training is absolutely imperative.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: You've got changes in activity levels, so the way you used to sort of like go out and do stuff when you were younger, you're probably not doing as much anymore.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, even something that is an enjoyable night out, you know, think about the amount of calories you would have burned in your 20s if you're up until three o'clock in the morning dancing all night, you're probably not at 50 with two teens downstairs and a job to get up to the next morning.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably not dancing until three o'clock in the morning, so you lose that kind of that activity that happens there, that's those kind of uh uh factors, and then of course, body composition as well.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that we know about menopause is that when it comes to body composition changes, tends to be more accumulation of fat around the middle as well, so all those kind of things can affect um your sleep and your energy, and then the one thing that we see absolutely loads is actually inadequate etogent intake.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's quite a scientific way of saying you're not bloody eating enough, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because most women that we know have have lived a life of extreme calorific restriction in some way, shape, or form.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we you know, there's all kinds of figures quoted around about the number of diets that women go through in a life, 130 or whatever, but it doesn't matter whether it's 100, 150, or 200, or 50 or 40.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: The truth is that women or many women have become conditioned to actually think they need to eat less than what their needs are because of those restrictive diets that are out there.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So inadequate energy intake, protein, you know, for many years protein wasn't seen as a vital macronutrient.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: We now know that it is, um, and then certain micronutrients as well.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So things like all your B vitamins and things like that that really can contribute, you know, if they're lacking, can contribute towards lack of energy and fatigue.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Iron deficiencies, another one, you know, iron deficiency is usually 99 times out of a hundred a result of some kind of um something that's happening.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is it's actually a uh a repercussion of something else that's going on in your body.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to look into things like iron levels and things like that, and then of course, just mentioned restrictive diets, really, really important.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another thing.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Then we also need to look at the cumulative load of midlife, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because we talk again about this a lot: demanding careers, changing professional responsibilities, aging parents, kids, grandkids, caring responsibilities, financial pressures, you know, relationship changes.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: How many women might be going into sort of like second or third big relationships when they hit their 40s and 50s?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Really possible.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody stays together for the rest of their life, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you've got all those household responsibilities as well, and then of course, within all that, you've got less time to recover.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So stress can influence sleep, can influence concentration, mood, how you actually perceive fatigue can be a challenge as well.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So throw all this into the mix, and you've got tons of stuff without even going into things like medical contributors, you know, thyroid disorders, diabetes, depression, the effects of medication, sleep disorders.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: So lots and lots going on.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just a case of shit, I had 40 and my body has suddenly decided that it feels fatigued.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's there's so much stuff going on.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is it any wonder that you feel fatigued?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we need to normalize this as well.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And by saying, although it isn't nice, you know, it is a very likely thing.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the one thing that surprises me is that 50% of people looked at in that study that that wasn't a higher level.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I hardly speak to any woman in the boy who doesn't tell me that she feels knackered.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, Julie, how do women recognise you know at that point where simply resting isn't really catching up or helping them catch up, and they're on the verge of, you know, for want of a better word for it, almost sort of like adrenal fatigue, where their body is so tired that their hormonal system's disrupted by it, and therefore, you know, it might need something that's a little bit more prescriptive when it comes to how we can help or how we can how we can tackle this as a challenge.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, when is rest not enough?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And how do women recognize that?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I that's a great point, and it's a great question because I think we get so used to managing everything, right?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: We don't even realize how much energy it's taking.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk about this invisible workload.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many things that we're carrying, and we don't even know.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Remembering everybody's appointments, remembering I have to order Lurl or toilet paper, you know, for the bathroom.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have to fill the pepper grinder because it's empty.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the kids need their football jerseys for practice and on and on and on.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so we assume that since we're coping with it, we're fine, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love that word, fine, I'm fine.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but coping and recovering are definitely not the same thing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the challenges that we face with fatigue is that women are very good at adapting to it, right?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: We it just feels normal because this is our life day to day.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you get through your workday, you manage all those responsibilities James mentioned, you keep showing up for everybody else.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of times that feels harder because we're operating with a lot less energy than we used to have.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the change isn't like flipping a switch, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that happens gradually over time.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that whole thing where people are telling you it's just menopause, and I say that in air quotes, or just in air quotes aging, you know, we just accept this as our new normal, right?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is normal now, this is what I need to just live with.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: But just because you can function doesn't necessarily mean that you're functioning well.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's good to look at patterns and not just specific symptoms because we might not notice those specific symptoms, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: When you have those days, like how how long have I been feeling this way?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is this something that just happens occasionally, or is this something that happens all the time?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did this come on suddenly?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Have I noticed this sort of decline over time?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Does sleep or rest make a meaningful difference?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I do mean a meaningful difference, like when you get a good night's sleep, can you bounce up and just be rare and ready to go again?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or does a good night's sleep feel better, but you still don't feel quite right?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is it, and this is a big one, is it affecting activities that you used to manage comfortably?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's a big one.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: When these things start to affect our daily life, I mean, that's the basis on which um not that this is a disability, but when someone is, when when a medical establishment is diagnosing a disability, they look at how it interferes with your daily life, your ability to function on a daily basis.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um thinking about that from that perspective, um, are there other symptoms like breathlessness?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you feeling dizziness?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a lot of sleep disturbances?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: How are your moods?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: What's happening with your weight?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is it going up?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is it going down?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is it fluctuating?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are you struggling to concentrate?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And do you feel really bad or significantly worse after physical or mental exertion?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because those are all really important to discuss with your healthcare professional and identify what might actually be going on underneath.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we said there's there's ordinary tiredness that you've had a demanding couple of weeks, there's a big project, you're burning the midnight oil, but that improves pretty quickly with adequate adequate recovery.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Then you've got a more persistent re fatigue.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And as I mentioned earlier, it might feel disproportionate to the activity you're trying to do.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: It might interfere with your daily functioning, um, or it might not improve with rest.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now, these aren't diagnostic categories, as I said, they're not clinically uh established categories.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we it's important that you you know you can experience both, you can fluctuate between all three of them, but none of those things tells us the underlying cause, you know, and that's like I said, I experienced extreme burnout myself.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things it taught me is that there's a point where another night's sleep or a day on the extra day on the couch isn't enough.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean that everyone who's having experiencing fatigue is burned out, but it does mean that we have to look beyond some of the obvious solutions.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're experiencing that kind of persistent exhaustion, it's it's really worth taking seriously rather than assuming you just have to become better at managing everything, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say make sure to seek medical advice if you're experiencing really deep fatigue that's persistent for a long period of time and you don't, there's no clear explanation for it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: It is severely affecting your everyday activities, or it's getting worse for there are other symptoms with it, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it doesn't improve with sleep or whatever, because your clinician is going to look at your medical history, medications you're on, sleep patterns, and other th other symptoms you might be having.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I can say in the UK, certainly the NHS recommends that you seek medical advice for any unexplained fatigue that lasts several weeks, you know, and and has any of those factors that I that I just described.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the pushing harder, you know, really isn't always the answer.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that's something that that's something that we do really well as women, right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we need to be able to make that distinction, right?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: We we're we're really advocates of seeking medical attention when it's necessary, but we're also very big advocates of seeking the support that you need.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if this isn't a medical issue, if you feel like this is something that you're managing, but you could use some support with, that's when finding that professional help, seeking coaching, that kind of thing is really important.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we don't want you to ignore what your body is telling you.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something we teach our clients regularly, right?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: We forget how to listen to what our bodies are are telling us.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes making progress means doing more, and sometimes it means recognizing that you need to do less.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So um we've talked about why fatigue happens, why we shouldn't dismiss it, but we don't want women to finish this episode thinking there's nothing they can do unless they have a medical diagnosis, because that's absolutely not the case, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there are practical ways to support your energy and recovery, provided we're addressing the right things.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I emphasize the right things.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So in a minute, we're going to come back and James will explain where someone starts, but let's take a quick break.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, it's James here.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just interrupting the pod for a moment.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: At Fabulous Beyond 40 Coaching, Julie and I are on a mission to help as many women over 40 as we possibly can as they navigate midlife, the menopause transition, so they can feel more like themselves again.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And while we offer paid coaching programmes, we also put out loads of free advice, including this very podcast.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't take advertising on here, but we know that everyone might not want or be in a position right now to invest in coaching, and that's absolutely fine.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: But there's one thing that you can do that won't cost you a penny, but it would mean the world to us, and that is help us spread the word.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you enjoy the podcast, please give us a follow, leave a review, share an episode, drop a comment, better still, tell a friend who you think really might benefit from listening because the more women we reach, the more women we can help, and that's really what it's all about.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's enough from me.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get back to today's episode.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And welcome back to Empower Your Menopause with James Ellis and Julia Medesi.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So just before the break, we're talking about practical ways to support energy and recovery when it comes to tiredness and fatigue.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start when we're talking about this with the cause and not the latest solution.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, despite what many influences might have you think, there's no universal energy boosting protocol that works for every single woman that's out there.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the most effective approach probably depends on what's contributing towards that extreme tiredness or fatigue.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than trying to overhaul everything, start with the foundations and think about which areas might need some attention.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the first one obviously is sleep, right?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you're probably sitting there raising your eyebrows thinking, oh my god, they're going to talk about sleep again.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, yes, we are really, because the truth is, you know, unless you try and improve the conditions for recovery, it becomes very, very hard to recover.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the usual advice kind of applies here.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Try and be as consistent as you can with sleep and waking times.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as a little aside, I was in bed at 5 to 8 last night, and I was asleep by quarter past eight.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right, so some things to think about then around sleep is obviously a sleep environment.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hot, cold, how do you like it?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: What can you do if you're experiencing hot flushes?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Can you think about things like layers?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, think about your evening routine.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked before about our 321 protocol, three hours before you go to sleep.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Don't eat anything two hours before you go to sleep.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Stop working, really key.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: One hour before you sleep.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Put phones down.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: It absolutely amazes me how many people that I speak to who say to me, Oh, I'm really tired, I never get any sleep.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: What's the last thing you do before you go to bed?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know I shouldn't do it, but I spend an hour doom scrolling on my phone.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've just answered your own question there, right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So think about that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then also think about things like caffeine and alcohol intake, and you know, if you some people just are not good processes of caffeine, and I love coffee as much as the next person, but if I have a coffee late at night, nine times out of ten, it's gonna keep me awake until until the early hours or make it more difficult for me to get to sleep, and also alcohol intake as well.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we tend to think of alcohol as a cure all for everything.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've had a shitty day at work, I'm just gonna have a couple of glasses of wine with my husband in front of the TV before we go to bed.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Alcohol, yes, it does make you fall asleep easier, but what it does do as well is it disrupts the sleep that you actually have, so it's a real false economy if you're using alcohol to soothe before bedtime.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe think about that, or maybe think about stopping it a little bit earlier.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you do want to drink at night and nobody's telling you not to, you know, maybe keep it to one or two glasses of wine and switch to water or herbal tea or something like that.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's loads of different alcohol-free spirits that you can get now, some of them um I've got substances in like GABA, which is a relaxant, so that can help you sleep better as well.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I talked about sort of like sleep environment before, so yes, you know, night sweats, pain, all the other symptoms that can interfere with sleep are all things that we need to look at.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are one of those people who has uh who suffers from sleep apnea, then you know maybe it's something that you need to get looked at by your GP or by a medical professional because it is it can be a challenge.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sleep.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let's think about nutrition as well.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then, are we giving the body what it needs?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, once again, that idea of eat eating enough calories to support your recovery and support your daily activity really, really important.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Adequate protein, lots of nutrient-dense foods.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we talked last week about you know what the inverted commerce perfect diet is for people women in midlife.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Go back and have a listen to that.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Think about Mediterranean style eating, it's probably the best catch-all place to start, and then tweak as you tweak as you go.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Think about things like iron, B12, other nutritional deficiencies that might be there.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Get a test if you need to.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to know about testing uh or where to get testing, then come to us and we can we can help you out with that.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, try not to think that being tired and being feeling fatigued is another reason to start thinking about restricting your diet even further.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually a time when you probably need to expand your diet.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some really simple things that can help.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Tryptophan is uh the precursor to serotonin, which helps you get sleep.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Really abundant in all protein-rich foods, but especially abundant in Turkey, you know.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you want a couple of nights a week to add some turkey cold cuts into your pre-bed routine before uh or as part of your your your supper.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um sour cherry juice can also help as well.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: That also helps produce uh serotonin and melatonin, so really, really important.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And stay hydrated as well.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't necessarily need to find a supplement or superfood, but you can be thinking about the things that you can add in, things that do help and support it, and noticing that you know if you've been skipping breakfast, skipping lunch, surviving on coffee, and then wondering why you're out of energy by three o'clock, well, it probably lies in your nutrition as much as anything else.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, movement.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'll try and rattle through these.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I realize that I'm going long, the podcast's going long, but movement really, really important.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Physical activity, yes, it does support sleep, it supports mood, it supports cardiovascular health, physical capacity.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um unless it's restorative movement, sort of like uh a yoga or Pilates or a meditation routine or something like that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: You might want to think about putting other stuff that is more excitory earlier in the day, things like you know, your cardio sessions or your hit sessions, those kind of things.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Get your resistance training and it helps preserve strength and function, but is also a really, really good way of helping your body um get to sleep better and because it and it needs that sleep for recovery, which is always really important, right?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So really important uh to think about recovery, but then of course, stress, you know, and it's easy to say, you know, um reduce the load, who can reduce the load?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, tell me how to do it, yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, think about the things that really really drain your energy.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything you can do about boundaries?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, have you got a boss who expects you to be answering emails at nine o'clock at night?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is that contributing to your workload?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you, if you've got caregiving demands, can you find somebody to help share the load with that or some sort of support?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Think about opportunities for recovery in ordinary life.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: We've just produced a um a booklet document that can support that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Stop Telling Me to Take Up Yoga.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's 120 60 second stress-relieving recovery actions for women 14 above.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want that, we'll put the link in the show notes for you to download it.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, the relaxation techniques they can help manage stress, but if you're totally overloaded, then you need to reduce the overload as much as anything else.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we can't always change these circumstances immediately, but it might be worth just thinking about some small adjustments that you can make across all of those, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, we've said this a couple of times now, but let's talk about it again.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: If it could be related to a medical condition, a sleep disorder, or severe menopausal symptoms, addressing those causes can make a substantial difference.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it may be something that you also want to talk to your GP about.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, Julie, handing over the bath in to you to sort of like round this section off and bring it all together for as we head towards the end of the pod.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think you know, there are there are a few a few questions worth asking, right?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because the the first step here, and I think this is so common with with women, and certainly I am guilty of this as well.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as we think, okay, right, something's going on here.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I need to change, I need to change something, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe that isn't the very first step.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's just learning to actually pay attention to what's going on.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: So think about, you know, question number one, what kind of tiredness am I experiencing?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is this sleepiness?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it physical fatigue?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it mental exhaustion?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is this this persistent lack of energy that just doesn't seem to respond to anything that I do?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Question number two, what patterns can I recognize?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And think about all the things that Jane talked about, right?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: James talked about sleep and nutrition and hydration, stress, activity, recovery, all of those things.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a particular time when the fatigue seems to get worse?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that consistently helps?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and have you had any changes in your health or especially in medication or daily circumstances?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, have those things crop those things cropped up lately?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked to clients recently who have started caring for aging parents or others who are suddenly empty nesters.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have a lot of things going on in our in our lives right now.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then question number three is what is one appropriate next step?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it isn't overhauling your entire life all at once.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can promise you that.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe it starts with prioritizing that sleep schedule and being more consistent there.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's eating lunch that you tend to skip or breakfast, maybe it's adding in more protein, hydrating, making that easier is if you can't drink water, can you do herbal teas or something like that?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can reduce one unnecessary demand.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Learning to say no to things is not a bad thing at all.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be all things to everyone.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then finding an appropriate way to move your body.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's getting up and walking for five minutes a couple times a day just to start.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's adding in that strength training, which we so greatly encourage you to do.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then book, maybe book an appointment to discuss persistent fatigue with a medical practitioner if you're finding that you're just not really sure what to do.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think the important message here is that getting older is not just the price we pay.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, feeling exhausted isn't isn't part of that.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our bodies change, absolutely.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Our circumchance circumstances change, of course they do, because life changes as we go along.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes the support we need is going to change along with us as well.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it isn't it isn't a personal failing if you're feeling fatigued or a bit overwhelmed.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but understanding what's actually contributing to that is a is a much better starting point than continuing to demand more of ourselves and making that cycle continue to get to get worse.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I've got.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, excellent.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: So key thing to think about then is that we have um something for you.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've been feeling tired, overwhelmed, simply quite not yourself lately, it can be difficult to know which part of your health deserves attention first.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that is why we've spent a lot of time creating what we call the Fabulous Beyond 40 midlife health check.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a series of really simple online questions that you can complete in around five to ten minutes or so, and it will give you a report that will help you take a broader look at your well-being, recognize areas that you might need to pay some attention and start identifying some spots where you can make some meaningful changes.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a medical diagnosis, it's not going to give you a magic answer to every symptom, but it will help you take a first step towards understanding what's happening, what might be worth exploring further.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you can find that uh link to the midlife health check in the show notes.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really what today's conversation comes down to, isn't it?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Understanding behind the fatigue, or understanding what's behind the fatigue rather than simply accepting it.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because we, you know, we can't always control everything that's affecting us.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: We can't control the things that happen with our energy.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: But once we become more aware of what's happening, it allows us to get the right support and make more informed decisions about our health.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a much better approach than simply accepting exhaustion, exhaustion, and fatigue as our new normal, right?
• 36:40
  unknown: Yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it for this week then.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us for another episode of Empower Your Metaphors.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, if you've enjoyed this podcast, please help us by liking, subscribing, adding a comment, passing it on to a friend.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'd really appreciate that because it helps us help more people.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: We do keep the podcast ad-free for those reasons.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been coaches, James and Julia Fabulous Beyond 40.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're here to remind you to stay strong, stay fabulous, and we will see you next time.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Bye everybody.