Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / Alex Murdaugh's Double Murder Conviction Overturned | SC Supreme Court: “Shocking Jury Interference”

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Alex Murdaugh's Double Murder Conviction Overturned | SC Supreme Court: “Shocking Jury Interference” · True Crime with Gavin Fish

• 0:01
  You know the what do we? Want to call it the Alex Murdoch
• 0:06
  case is and I typically don't want to call cases by the name
• 0:12
  of the perpetrator. I usually want to call them by
• 0:14
  the name of the victims in this. So I guess the Maggie and Paul
• 0:17
  Murdoch case, but this is one that I was Youtubing at the time
• 0:24
  it was happening, but I wasn't live streaming.
• 0:27
  I wasn't doing the Daily News stuff.
• 0:29
  I was doing deep dives into cases at the time.
• 0:31
  So it's this might be the first time we've talked about it here
• 0:33
  on my channel, but I've followed it with extreme interest because
• 0:40
  of the nature of I guess the circumstances of everything that
• 0:45
  happened down there. Small town, kind of like multi
• 0:49
  generational power dynamic. It just and then like a family
• 0:58
  that seemed to have been able to get away with anything and then
• 1:04
  the I guess the second generation patriarch going off
• 1:08
  the deep end and in order to cover up his other crimes.
• 1:13
  Completely offs his wife. And son, I'm not even going to
• 1:17
  say allegedly, OK, he was, he was convicted of it, but that
• 1:24
  conviction was overturned by the South Carolina State Supreme
• 1:29
  Court. And I kind of think
• 1:33
  appropriately so because you guys know, I think every
• 1:38
  defendant deserves a fair trial with good representation.
• 1:48
  And when that doesn't happen, it threatens that protection for
• 1:53
  all of us. And the Supreme Court of the
• 1:56
  state of South Carolina, I, I shouldn't say agrees with me.
• 2:01
  I should say I agree with the, the state Supreme Court there in
• 2:05
  South Carolina. We have their decision, their
• 2:09
  opinion that remanded this back and ordered a new, new trial.
• 2:17
  We're going to, we're going to get into that opinion.
• 2:19
  We, what else do we have? We've got so much to go over
• 2:24
  today. We've got that.
• 2:25
  We've got, we've got headlines in the Nancy Guthrie case, Anna
• 2:31
  Kepner, Judge Kevin Mullins, the Lake and Snelling case.
• 2:36
  We've got some good news. And of course we've got three
• 2:37
  questions. So as they say, we got 10
• 2:40
  gallons of content to put into a 5 gallon show.
• 2:44
  Feel like this one might be a long and in depth 1.
• 2:49
  Hope you will stay with this video.
• 3:02
  Contains mature themes and discussions intended only for
• 3:06
  adult audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.
• 3:11
  Hello there, my friend. Welcome back to another true
• 3:14
  crime conversation with me, Gavin Fish.
• 3:17
  I have been battling like gremlins all day today.
• 3:21
  In fact, I'm wearing this sport jacket because I've been so
• 3:26
  cold. But it looks like it is my
• 3:29
  father's sport jacket. It's it's, it's the smallest one
• 3:32
  I own and it's still, it's way, way too big for me, just like
• 3:38
  I'm drowning at it. Might as well be.
• 3:41
  A double breasted coat, so there's that.
• 3:44
  Plus we weren't live yesterday because we had.
• 3:48
  Gremlins that I was blaming on like living in a small town in
• 3:51
  bad weather and everything, but it turns out that I just, We had
• 3:57
  just a bad network set up and whoever set up that network,
• 4:00
  that guy's name was Gavin Fish, did a terrible job.
• 4:04
  But today I've spent all day fixing that.
• 4:08
  So I'm hoping that we are in the clear there, that this will
• 4:12
  reach you wherever it is that you are.
• 4:14
  Tell me you put GF in your comment and tell me where you're
• 4:17
  tuning in from. I just love to read your
• 4:19
  comments and know where you're watching in addition to all
• 4:24
  that. I've told the story a couple.
• 4:27
  Times on the channel here where a scout master of mine, I, I
• 4:34
  told him at the tender age of 12 or 13 that I just didn't think
• 4:38
  that I ever had it in me to kill a person.
• 4:40
  And as a Vietnam veteran, he looked at me straight in the
• 4:43
  eyes and said, yeah, you do. And that has been a lesson that
• 4:46
  I have that I have taken with it scared me to death.
• 4:50
  It's a lesson that I've taken with me my whole life.
• 4:53
  Well, I found out yesterday that he died the day before
• 4:57
  yesterday. I'm pretty sad about it.
• 4:59
  The age of 80, which you know, seems it's it's too young and
• 5:04
  and then my my beloved Uncle Phil, my mom's oldest brother or
• 5:09
  only brother passed away a couple days ago as well, so.
• 5:14
  Just a lot going on over here in my world.
• 5:19
  In the case of Uncle Phil, I'm I'm sad for my aunt, for my
• 5:23
  cousins, but after a long illness, I'm happy for him that
• 5:28
  he is. He doesn't have to to deal with
• 5:32
  that anymore. So mixed feelings, of course,
• 5:37
  mixed feelings. Of course, my mom now is the
• 5:41
  last surviving member of her immediately, her immediate
• 5:45
  family, her, her parents are gone.
• 5:48
  Her little sister is gone. Her older brother is gone.
• 5:51
  So I'm thinking of my mom, thinking of my aunt, all my
• 5:53
  cousins, my aunt and uncles, grandchildren.
• 5:57
  And so forth. It's it's just a lot going on,
• 5:59
  but that's the way it is. In every life, right, in every
• 6:04
  life, there's always life that goes on.
• 6:07
  And you know, this is an I'm sorry to just go on and on and
• 6:11
  on, but if you live in my area and you read the reports that I
• 6:15
  put out in in on the EYT Media network on Explorer, Venango
• 6:21
  Explorer, Clarion Explorer Jefferson.
• 6:22
  Right now I am working on a long series about the battles of drug
• 6:29
  addiction, people who live with drug addiction, people who live
• 6:32
  beside, people that live with drug addiction, those that
• 6:35
  respond to it privately, publicly, through law
• 6:38
  enforcement, through the courts. I've had some of the most
• 6:40
  amazing conversations, had some of the most just amazing.
• 6:44
  Today I talked to a 30 year EMS veteran that told me some of the
• 6:51
  most surprising things that I can't wait to include in my
• 6:56
  report. So for those of you that are
• 6:58
  local, I know that there are a few of you that that watch that
• 7:01
  are local. Keep your eye open for those
• 7:05
  reports. And then one other thing I
• 7:09
  wanted to mention before we really get into it, something
• 7:11
  that I'm so excited about. I know I'm like on a roller
• 7:14
  coaster of emotions here and things that are happening in
• 7:20
  life. Look what I'm wearing.
• 7:22
  You see what I'm wearing right there?
• 7:24
  That this, that there's a reflection.
• 7:26
  You guys couldn't see it this. Well, it's got a white.
• 7:29
  It's got a white face. This is the first really nice
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  watch I ever got. Fun fact about me, my my modest
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  and small collection of watches are all either gifts or bonuses
• 7:44
  that I've gotten over the years. This one is the first one I ever
• 7:48
  got. It is a chronograph and you guys
• 7:53
  do you guys know what is happening right now?
• 7:55
  I have partnered with Fan of Them to give away this Omega
• 8:00
  Speedmaster. Now, I'm not wearing a
• 8:02
  Speedmaster right now. I wish I was wearing a
• 8:04
  Seedmaster right now. I'm wearing a Daytona.
• 8:07
  But I love watches. I just love the craftsmanship of
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  them. I love that they're something
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  that you can pass on to future generations.
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  And I've teamed up with fanofthem.com, which is a.
• 8:21
  Veteran owned small business. To give away this Omega
• 8:27
  Speedmaster, it's about a. 49105 thousand dollar watch.
• 8:31
  Pretty awesome. And to enter all you need to do
• 8:34
  is go to fanofthem.com/gavin Fish, you buy a, some cool merch
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  or a digital download one of their collectibles and you get a
• 8:46
  chance to win this Speedmaster I and, and by doing it, you also
• 8:53
  support the show. I'm, I'm, I'm always blown away
• 8:58
  by the amount of support that I get from you guys from, you
• 9:02
  know, the comments and the likes and the people that subscribe my
• 9:07
  patrons, my members. I am so, so, so grateful that
• 9:12
  you guys do this. And yeah, just I hope that I
• 9:18
  hope that one of you really enjoys the Speedmaster.
• 9:22
  Definitely go to the link in the description or to
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  afanofthem.com/gavin Fish. Grab some of that limited
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• 9:33
  this amazing Speedmaster. Thanks again for your support
• 9:36
  and good luck. Can't wait to see.
• 9:39
  Can't wait to see the winner on that.
• 9:44
  OK, Have we already done the intro?
• 9:48
  I've been talking for almost 10 minutes.
• 9:49
  Yeah, we did the intro. What are we doing?
• 9:52
  OK, we are jumping into this case.
• 9:55
  We're jumping into this case. This, My friends, this is Alex
• 10:00
  Murdoch, OK? He's an attorney.
• 10:06
  He is a convicted murderer whose conviction was overturned by the
• 10:13
  South Carolina State Supreme Court.
• 10:15
  Why was it overturned? Well, first of all, what was he
• 10:17
  convicted of? Well, he was convicted of
• 10:21
  murdering his wife, Maggie and their son Paul.
• 10:28
  And you know, this was a the Murdochs were a powerful kind of
• 10:34
  dynasty down in South Carolina. He he was a well known attorney.
• 10:44
  He had ties to local prosecutors.
• 10:47
  He knew local law enforcement. And I mean, they were already
• 10:53
  under scrutiny because in 2019, Paul, that young man.
• 10:58
  Right there. Do I have a picture of just
• 11:00
  Paul? I guess I don't.
• 11:02
  Anyway, Paul, the young man in that picture right there was
• 11:05
  involved in a boat crash. That killed a young woman named
• 11:10
  Mallory Beech. So there was already there was
• 11:13
  already some, some, what do we want to call it some scrutiny,
• 11:20
  right? Because not only did Mallory
• 11:24
  lose her life, but it appeared that Paul was he was protected
• 11:31
  by his extremely powerful, powerful family.
• 11:36
  And in my opinion, he should have been prosecuted.
• 11:43
  Should have been prosecuted. I mean, if you've if you've
• 11:46
  looked at all this, if you've watched the doc or the
• 11:51
  documentaries on this case, if you've read about, Oh my
• 11:54
  goodness, it is. So Alex and Maggie protected
• 12:00
  their son, I think from prosecution.
• 12:02
  OK. But in the meantime, Alex was
• 12:07
  committing all sorts of financial crimes.
• 12:11
  Now that that part, I don't think that part has been
• 12:15
  overturned. But you know, he the
• 12:18
  prosecution's. Theory is that Alex.
• 12:22
  Killed Paul and Maggie because he was trying to.
• 12:33
  He was. Trying to distract.
• 12:36
  Well, I don't, I don't know. He's trying to distract from his
• 12:41
  financial crimes and his personal scandals.
• 12:44
  He had millions of dollars that he had stolen from clients and
• 12:47
  associates. And of course, the prosecution
• 12:50
  just had tons of evidence on this, including video recorded
• 12:53
  by Paul minutes before the murders, which prosecutors said
• 12:58
  placed Alex at the scene of the murder, which was their dog
• 13:03
  kennels, despite the fact that he had denied it.
• 13:07
  The prosecutors had evidence that Alex had changed his story
• 13:11
  over and over again about where he was that night.
• 13:15
  There was testimony about his financial crimes, his
• 13:18
  misconduct, his opioid addictions.
• 13:20
  Speaking of addictions, you know, tons of like digital and
• 13:25
  forensic evidence. The, the defense was like, you
• 13:30
  know what I mean? They, they did everything that
• 13:32
  defense did right. The investigation was flawed.
• 13:35
  You focused on our client with from the beginning, you didn't
• 13:39
  focus on anybody else who have, who could have committed these
• 13:45
  crimes. There was no direct physical
• 13:47
  evidence. You were focused.
• 13:49
  You were ignoring other suspects.
• 13:53
  You know, he, my client, lied about some things because of his
• 13:57
  paranoia and addiction, not because he was the killer.
• 14:01
  But in 2020. Three, the trial took place, he
• 14:05
  testified. In his own defense.
• 14:07
  Which hardly ever happens. I feel like I'm screaming let
• 14:09
  me, let me pull. Sorry about that guys if I'm
• 14:11
  blowing out your eardrums. He admitted that he lied to
• 14:15
  investigators about being at the kennels, but you know, said it
• 14:21
  wasn't me, it wasn't me. But anyway, March of 2023 he is
• 14:24
  convicted of both murders and he receives 2 consecutive life
• 14:31
  sentences done right. All all is groovy at this point
• 14:38
  except except. There's this woman right here.
• 14:45
  This woman's name is Rebecca Hill.
• 14:47
  OK, Rebecca. Hill was what was she?
• 14:54
  She was the. Court, court clerk.
• 15:00
  Is that what she was? I think that's right.
• 15:04
  Why am I? Why am I?
• 15:05
  I didn't write jot this down. Anyway.
• 15:12
  The defense after the convictions accused Rebecca Hill
• 15:19
  here of improperly influencing jurors by making comments about
• 15:25
  their client's credibility, his body language.
• 15:28
  He was she. They said she was encouraging
• 15:31
  jurors to not be fooled by his testimony.
• 15:34
  They said she was discussing evidence and impressions outside
• 15:38
  normal courtroom procedures. She was pushing jurors toward a
• 15:41
  quick guilty verdict, and the defense said, you know what, She
• 15:46
  was too personally invested in the case and its outcome.
• 15:50
  And you know what this is? The kind of crap that you see.
• 15:54
  In small towns where where a guy that has too much power, and I'm
• 15:59
  not saying appears to have too much power, he has too much
• 16:01
  power, is starting to get his comeuppance, right.
• 16:05
  I mean, where else are we seeing this?
• 16:06
  We are seeing this in the case of Judge Kevin Mullins down in
• 16:12
  Kentucky, right? In Letcher County, Kentucky,
• 16:16
  Kevin Mullins was killed by Mickey Steins, the sheriff in
• 16:22
  the town, right? And so we're going to see the
• 16:24
  same kinds of things in this one.
• 16:26
  Did Judge Mullins deserve to be killed by Mickey Steins?
• 16:31
  That's the that's the kind of stuff that that Rebecca Hill
• 16:35
  was. Feeling, apparently.
• 16:38
  Right. All the evidence points me in
• 16:40
  that direction anyway. And so yeah, the.
• 16:46
  Afterwards, Rebecca Hill wrote a book.
• 16:49
  She wrote a book about the case called.
• 16:52
  Behind the doors of justice. And that became a major issue
• 16:55
  because the defense argued she had a financial motive now to
• 16:59
  help produce a dramatic guilty verdict.
• 17:02
  And some jurors later testified about comments that Hill made to
• 17:08
  them allegedly during their deliberations, and questions
• 17:13
  emerged about whether. She blurred the lines of ethics
• 17:18
  right while the trial was ongoing and then separately,
• 17:23
  investigations. Started and accused Hill of
• 17:27
  sharing sealed evidence, improperly misusing her office,
• 17:31
  making false statements underoath.
• 17:34
  And using her position for personal gain, tied to media
• 17:38
  attention, tied to the book. She eventually resigned from
• 17:42
  office. And then she was later.
• 17:44
  Charged with those misconduct related crimes, ultimately
• 17:47
  pleaded guilty to several offenses tied to her handling of
• 17:52
  the case and the courtroom material.
• 17:53
  So that is that is our background.
• 17:56
  That is what got us here. OK.
• 18:00
  And, of course, not burying the lead.
• 18:04
  South Carolina Supreme Court was like.
• 18:10
  We can't be doing this. We can't be doing this.
• 18:12
  Now before we get into that, let's see where what you guys
• 18:17
  are saying over in the live chat already looks like we got
• 18:21
  several people putting Christine Meadows is saying I'm looking
• 18:24
  dapper today. I'm wearing my feel like I'm
• 18:27
  wearing my dad's suit. You know, this was a Sport coat
• 18:29
  that I bought. That was, too.
• 18:31
  Small for me. And now I was wearing a 52 long.
• 18:37
  At my heaviest, this is a 44 long and like the shoulders are
• 18:45
  about two inches. Too big on each side.
• 18:47
  They're. Funny, but thank you.
• 18:49
  Thank you very much. Let's see, New Hampshire is here
• 18:55
  tonight. Let's see.
• 18:58
  Barb Olson says you'll have to take up tailoring as a side
• 19:01
  hustle. You know what Barb?
• 19:05
  This is a bit of a tangent, but I just had measurements taken
• 19:11
  and have ordered my first. Made to measure dress.
• 19:15
  Shirt it's my first time purchasing.
• 19:18
  It's not bespoke. It's not, you know, it's not, it
• 19:23
  didn't have to spend a lot of money on this, but it, it's made
• 19:25
  to measure and I'm going to, I'm going to see how it goes, see if
• 19:29
  I like it. And if I do, I'm probably going
• 19:32
  to start. I I think I will probably buy a
• 19:34
  maid to measure suit. Just Ducky Gavin all fancy with
• 19:38
  his blazer. The UK is in the house.
• 19:41
  York P as in the house. Calgary is here.
• 19:44
  Austin, TX is here. I do need a new Sport coat that
• 19:48
  fits me. We're going to see how this
• 19:49
  shirt. Goes and then then we will I.
• 19:54
  Just I'm so cold. That's the other thing about
• 19:56
  losing weight, guys. Like I'm always, I'm just always
• 19:59
  cold, always cold. South Lake Tahoe here.
• 20:02
  Northern Kentucky here. Suburb of the Windy City is
• 20:05
  here. Flood City, PA.
• 20:07
  Savannah GA's in the house. England is here.
• 20:11
  Glad you are here. Erie, PA.
• 20:15
  Oh dear. Josh Ritter's mom passed away.
• 20:17
  I didn't see that. I'm very sorry to hear that.
• 20:20
  I'll have to reach out to Josh. Georgia is here.
• 20:23
  Thank you guys for the condolences.
• 20:25
  Appreciate that those were two really, really good men who who
• 20:30
  made my childhood just a little bit happier.
• 20:33
  Both of them just. You know, I never, I never am
• 20:37
  terribly. Sad when somebody old who's
• 20:40
  lived a full and rich life passes away.
• 20:44
  Of course I met. I will miss them, but both of
• 20:49
  those guys, both of them in different ways made Uncle Phil
• 20:56
  and Bruce made my life so much happier as a child and I already
• 21:02
  had a really happy childhood. Both of them.
• 21:05
  Amazing and thank you guys. I appreciate that.
• 21:09
  Marie Jubenville, thank you very Meadowbrook.
• 21:11
  Thank you very much. Meadowbrook, Alabama is.
• 21:14
  Here, Sharky Sharona, thank you for covering stories of
• 21:17
  addiction. I'm learning so much in that
• 21:19
  series. Oh, well, thank you.
• 21:24
  I appreciate the hug. I'm Goddess, I appreciate that.
• 21:30
  Let's see, Mary says. Glad you're reviewing Maggie and
• 21:32
  Paul's case. I've always believed.
• 21:34
  Alex was guilty. It's a shame.
• 21:35
  Becky Hill interviewed. Yeah, yeah.
• 21:37
  This is the crappy thing. It's because I believed Alex
• 21:40
  Murdoch did the murders. I feel like there's so much
• 21:43
  evidence and we now have to go through a second round.
• 21:47
  There will be. Tons of time and treasure
• 21:51
  invested in it. But it is the right thing to do
• 21:57
  and we are going to get into, we're going to get into it here.
• 22:03
  Let's see a couple other things. Let me see if anybody else is.
• 22:07
  Yeah. She was the county clerk of the
• 22:09
  court. That's correct.
• 22:10
  She was the clerk of court for Colton County.
• 22:14
  Court clerk. Yes, that's what she was.
• 22:17
  Thank you very much. Bean Town in the house.
• 22:19
  Lansing, MI. Seawater says get my shirts
• 22:23
  handmade to measure by. I tailor they are perfect.
• 22:27
  Well seawater is. That is where I decided to try
• 22:31
  mine at. I tailor that that's what I'm
• 22:34
  doing. I'm glad to hear that I chose
• 22:37
  the 8020 by 8020 cotton. Feel like it's going to be a
• 22:43
  fabric. I like natural fabrics.
• 22:47
  So yeah, I'm. I'm glad to hear that.
• 22:49
  Thank you. Robin says my dad always had
• 22:52
  tailored suits and they always fell so nicely on the shoulders,
• 22:55
  cuffs and pant cuff. You look fabulous, darling.
• 22:58
  You know my dad is the same way. Always tailored suits always,
• 23:03
  always looked great. So yeah.
• 23:07
  And I'm trying to up the old game.
• 23:09
  Myrtle Beach, SC Baby Shark. Welcome, welcome.
• 23:12
  Glad you're here. I'm trying to up my game.
• 23:15
  You know, when I was walking around at nearly three bills, I
• 23:20
  really was. Just trying to cover my body so
• 23:22
  nobody would notice how ginormously fat I was.
• 23:26
  And of course everybody noticed how.
• 23:31
  Fat I was, so I. Now that I'm down below 2 bills
• 23:37
  and continuing to drop, I am I'm trying to trying trying to.
• 23:45
  Get the right drape. You know, trying to trying to
• 23:48
  look better, trying because I feel better, I want to look
• 23:53
  better. You will.
• 23:55
  Look marvelous. Feel marvelous.
• 23:58
  Yes, indeed. So OK.
• 24:00
  Guys, will you come with me please over to this here Acrobat
• 24:06
  file. This is the Supreme Court file.
• 24:10
  It's a 29 page filing. These actually go pretty darn
• 24:13
  quickly, but I, I think it's important that we go through the
• 24:17
  whole thing. It will give us background, it
• 24:20
  will give us the opinion. This is the state of South
• 24:23
  Carolina in the Supreme Court. The State V Richard Alexander
• 24:27
  Murdoch Oh, Dang it. OK, The only.
• 24:30
  Thing I'm sympathetic to in Alex Murdoch's life is that his
• 24:35
  family named him one thing and called him another.
• 24:38
  I also am a middle namer and my parents.
• 24:43
  Said that John Gavin Fish sounds way more musical than Gavin John
• 24:47
  Fish and that's why I was called.
• 24:51
  I was named John but called Gavin Poor.
• 24:54
  Poor. Not so poor.
• 24:56
  Alex Murdoch, Appeal from Colton County.
• 25:01
  Here is the opinion filed yesterday, May 13th.
• 25:05
  Reversed and remanded. And then it just lists the
• 25:11
  attorneys. OK, Pair curium.
• 25:14
  For six weeks in early 2023, the eyes of the Nation focused.
• 25:19
  This is the court writing this, by the way.
• 25:21
  The Eyes of the Nation focused on Colleton County, where the
• 25:24
  state prosecuted notorious former attorney Richard
• 25:29
  Alexander Murdoch for the murders of his wife Maggie and
• 25:33
  son Paul. Interesting that they use the
• 25:35
  word notorious. Holy cow.
• 25:38
  Both the state and Murdoch's defense skillfully presented
• 25:41
  their cases to the jury as the trial court deftly presided over
• 25:45
  this complicated and high profile manner.
• 25:48
  All right, so they're like, the defense did a good job, the
• 25:50
  prosecution did a good job, the court did a good job.
• 25:53
  However, their efforts were in vain because Colleton County
• 25:56
  Clerk of Court Rebecca Hill placed her fingers on the scale
• 25:59
  of justice, thereby denying Murdoch his right to a fair
• 26:03
  trial by an impartial jury. Our justice system provides,
• 26:07
  indeed demands, that every person is entitled to a fair
• 26:11
  trial, which includes an impartial jury untainted by
• 26:15
  external forces bent on influencing the jury toward a
• 26:19
  biased verdict. Although we are aware of the
• 26:22
  time, money, and effort expended for this lengthy trial, we have
• 26:26
  no choice but to reverse the denial of Murdoch's motion for a
• 26:32
  new trial due to Hill's improper external influences on the jury
• 26:36
  and remand for a new trial. Because we order a new trial on
• 26:41
  this basis, it is not necessary that we review every evidentiary
• 26:45
  issue Murdoch raises on appeal from his conviction.
• 26:48
  However, we address the admissibility of Murdoch's
• 26:51
  financial crimes to offer guidance on this thorny issue to
• 26:56
  the trial court on remand. So they've got some
• 26:59
  instructions, all right. So they're like, we know that
• 27:01
  you're going to spend a lot of money on this.
• 27:03
  It's going to be a lengthy trial.
• 27:05
  But we have to do it because everybody is entitled to a fair
• 27:09
  trial by an or in front of an impartial jury.
• 27:15
  Otherwise, it all falls apart, right?
• 27:18
  And we want this. I mean, I don't, I, I don't
• 27:23
  want, what I don't want is for somebody like this to nullify
• 27:31
  the impartiality of the jury. Got to keep the jury clean.
• 27:35
  And I know that some people might think, well, that's Rich
• 27:37
  Gavin, you taint the jury pool by talking about cases like this
• 27:40
  all the time. Now, that is what Vaudir is for.
• 27:44
  That is what Vaudir is for. They are to find an impartial
• 27:47
  jury and now they have to do it again in a county where, I mean,
• 27:53
  the eyes of the world were on the county.
• 27:56
  Everybody has heard about this, but there is a voidir process
• 28:00
  and practice that we'll find an impartial jury.
• 28:04
  OK, number one, in terms of guidance, here we go.
• 28:10
  Factual and procedural background.
• 28:12
  On March 2nd, 2023, Murdoch was convicted of the murders of his
• 28:17
  wife, Margaret Murdoch and his son Paul Murdoch, as well as two
• 28:20
  counts of possession of a weapon during the Commission of a
• 28:23
  violent crime. The trial court, Judge Newman,
• 28:26
  sentenced him to life in prison. While his direct appeal of these
• 28:32
  convictions was pending at the Court of Appeals, Murdoch filed
• 28:36
  a motion to hold the appeal in a bands to allow him to file a
• 28:40
  motion for a new trial. The Court of Appeals granted
• 28:43
  this motion. On October 27th, 2023.
• 28:47
  Murdoch moved for a new trial, asserting Hill tampered with the
• 28:50
  jury by 1. Advising it not to believe
• 28:54
  Murdoch testimony and other defense evidence 2.
• 28:58
  Pressuring it to reach a quick guilty verdict and three,
• 29:01
  Misrepresenting information to the trial court in an attempt to
• 29:04
  have the court remove a juror she believed to favor the
• 29:07
  defense. He attached affidavits from
• 29:11
  several jurors to support his motion.
• 29:13
  Chief Justice Beatty appointed former Chief Justice Toll Post
• 29:17
  trial court to preside over this motion as the trial court judge
• 29:22
  had recused himself. The post trial court conducted
• 29:25
  the hearing of this motion on January 26th and 29th of 2024.
• 29:30
  During the hearing, the post trial court asked each juror
• 29:33
  one. If the guilty verdict was an
• 29:35
  accurate statement about the verdict at the time 2.
• 29:39
  Whether the verdict was quote based entirely on testimony,
• 29:42
  evidence and law presented close quote in the case 3.
• 29:45
  Whether they heard Hill make any comment about the case before
• 29:49
  the verdict and four, whether their verdict was influenced in
• 29:53
  any way by any communications by Hill.
• 29:58
  Juror X, who testified on the first day of the hearing,
• 30:01
  acknowledged hearing Hill say before Murdoch's testimony.
• 30:05
  Quote, looks like the defendant is going to testify.
• 30:08
  This is an important day, close quote or quote.
• 30:11
  This is an epic day, close quote.
• 30:13
  And that it was rare for a defendant to testify.
• 30:17
  Juror X said these statements did not impact the verdict.
• 30:21
  Juror Z, who submitted one of the affidavits Murdoch attached
• 30:24
  to his motion for a new trial, was the first juror to testify
• 30:30
  on the second hearing date. When asked whether she heard
• 30:33
  Hill make any comments about the case, Juror Z responded that
• 30:36
  Hill said, quote, to watch his actions, close quote.
• 30:40
  And quote, to watch him closely. close quote.
• 30:44
  Jersey added that Hill said more, but she could not remember
• 30:47
  anything else. Jersey explained Hill's
• 30:49
  statements influenced her finding Murdoch guilty.
• 30:53
  Because, quote, to me it felt like she made it seem like he
• 30:56
  was already guilty. close quote. Remember, this is just me.
• 31:02
  Sorry, taking a break. For those of you listening, not
• 31:05
  not watching, remember that. When you are sitting in a jury,
• 31:12
  especially on a homicide and this.
• 31:15
  Is a double homicide and I happen to be, I know I bring it
• 31:19
  up way too often. A former juror on a double
• 31:22
  homicide case. There is tons of weight, man.
• 31:25
  There's tons of weight on you because you're like, dude, I'm
• 31:29
  not a lawyer. I don't know the law.
• 31:31
  The judge has read to me what what I'm supposed to consider
• 31:35
  for the law, but they won't let me take that those instructions
• 31:38
  to read them. If I have questions, I have to
• 31:40
  come back. And then the judge just reads
• 31:41
  them again, you know, and you're confused.
• 31:44
  You're not a lawyer. You're confused.
• 31:45
  And then you're in a room with other people that range on the
• 31:50
  spectrum from brilliant to idiotic.
• 31:52
  And you can't believe that these are the 12 people that were
• 31:55
  chosen. And and they.
• 31:57
  Thought the same thing about me. Right?
• 32:00
  These are the 12 people that are chosen to do this.
• 32:02
  There's just so much pressure. And I can see how how comments
• 32:09
  like this, though they may feel banal, I can see how they can
• 32:15
  add pressure to a juror. OK.
• 32:22
  Continuing the document at the state's request, the Post trial
• 32:27
  court questioned Juror Z about her affidavit, addressing each
• 32:31
  paragraph in turn. Juror Z's affidavit gave a more
• 32:33
  detailed recitation of Hill's comments.
• 32:36
  And this is there's a quote from the affidavit toward the end of
• 32:40
  the trial, after the President's Day break but before Mr. Murdoch
• 32:43
  testified, the clerk of court, Rebecca Hill, told the jury,
• 32:47
  quote, not to be fooled, close quote, by the evidence presented
• 32:51
  by Mr. Murdoch's attorneys, which I understood mean that Mr.
• 32:54
  Murdoch would lie when he testifies.
• 32:57
  She also instructed the jury, quote, to watch him closely,
• 33:01
  close quote, immediately before he testified, including to,
• 33:04
  quote, look at his actions, close quote and quote, look at
• 33:09
  his movements, close quote, which I understood to mean he
• 33:12
  was guilty. Should I stop with the open
• 33:14
  close quote? I probably should.
• 33:16
  OK, getting back to the court's writing, This is not in the
• 33:21
  affidavit. Juror Z testified that when the
• 33:24
  jury began deliberations, Hill told the jury this shouldn't
• 33:27
  take long. In addition to referencing
• 33:30
  Hill's statements, Juror Z averted in her affidavit.
• 33:33
  I had questions about Mr. Murdoch's guilt of guilt, but
• 33:36
  voted guilty because I felt pressured by the other jurors.
• 33:41
  You shouldn't, you shouldn't do that.
• 33:43
  You should vote your conscience as a juror.
• 33:45
  Having said that, I think I put a lot of pressure on other
• 33:50
  jurors that I served with because I felt so.
• 33:53
  I mean, that's part of the deliberation.
• 33:55
  But if if you're only feeling pressure as a juror, that's not
• 33:59
  a, that's not a reason to change your mind.
• 34:01
  If you are convinced by another juror of of something, then that
• 34:06
  that's a good reason. OK.
• 34:10
  After reviewing the affidavit, the post trial court question,
• 34:13
  Juror Z, this is from the post court trial.
• 34:17
  I asked you previously, previously was your verdict on
• 34:20
  March 2nd, 2023 influenced in any way by communications from
• 34:24
  Becky Hill, the clerk of court? You answered the question yes,
• 34:28
  in light of what you said in the affidavit, which is I had
• 34:31
  questions about Mr. Murdoch's guilt but voted guilty because I
• 34:34
  felt pressured by the other jurors.
• 34:36
  Is that answer that I just read a more accurate statement of how
• 34:40
  you felt? Juror Z answered affirmatively.
• 34:43
  The Post trial court then asked if she stood by the affidavit
• 34:46
  and she answered yes. Juror Z subsequently submitted
• 34:51
  an affidavit to clarify her testimony in which she explained
• 34:54
  that she felt influenced to find Murdoch guilty by Hill's remarks
• 34:57
  before she entered the jury room, and once deliberations
• 35:01
  began, she felt additional pressure from other jurors to
• 35:04
  reach a guilty verdict. Although the Post trial court
• 35:08
  did not admit this affidavit, it accepted it as a proffer.
• 35:12
  Thus, the affidavit is part of the record before this court.
• 35:15
  Juror P testified that on the day murder or Murdoch murder,
• 35:21
  Murdoch was to take the stand, Hill made a comment to watch his
• 35:25
  body language. He denied Hill's comments
• 35:28
  influenced him in any way. The remaining jurors testified
• 35:32
  that they did not hear Hill make any comments about the case and
• 35:37
  they were not influenced by any comments Hill made.
• 35:41
  Following the jurors testimony, the State called Hill as a
• 35:44
  witness. Although Hill denied making most
• 35:48
  of the comments the jurors related, she admitted that on
• 35:50
  the day Murdoch testified and within earshot of some jurors,
• 35:54
  she spoke to the bailiff about Murdoch's decision to testify.
• 35:58
  Oh, so she's, she's like, I did not tell them that, but it, they
• 36:01
  may have heard it. She also stated that she gave
• 36:04
  jurors a, quote, little talk instructing them to pay
• 36:08
  attention and that the day was a big day.
• 36:11
  She denied attempting to influence the jury.
• 36:15
  That is completely out of bounds, completely improper.
• 36:20
  Makes me wonder, is clerk of court?
• 36:23
  Is AI think clerk of court? Is an elected position.
• 36:30
  Is that correct? I want to look that up.
• 36:43
  Yeah, is it? Let's see, in South Carolina,
• 36:51
  yes. In all 46 counties of South
• 36:53
  Carolina. There's got to be a training
• 36:58
  though. Come on.
• 36:59
  I mean, come on. OK, Continuing in discussing her
• 37:04
  book Behind the Doors of Justice, The Murdoch Murders.
• 37:08
  I don't mind her writing that, by the way, I I honestly don't
• 37:11
  mind her writing that, except she was influencing the jury
• 37:18
  that I might. OK Hill claimed literary license
• 37:21
  to explain some of the more dramatic passages.
• 37:24
  She denied wanting a guilty verdict because it would sell
• 37:27
  more books, claiming the outcome of the trial did not matter to
• 37:30
  her. But she acknowledged as true a
• 37:33
  passage in which she stated she believed Murdoch was guilty but
• 37:37
  was concerned he would be acquitted because of his
• 37:40
  family's goodwill in the community.
• 37:44
  The Post trial court also questioned Hill about the favors
• 37:47
  she granted the media. Hill denied allowing the press
• 37:50
  to view exhibits, including the sealed exhibits.
• 37:53
  However, she subsequently pled guilty to perjury stemming from
• 37:58
  this denial. Although the Post trial court
• 38:02
  limited discussion of Jurors 785, whom the trial court
• 38:05
  dismissed on the day deliberations began for
• 38:07
  allegedly discussing the case with third parties, it allowed
• 38:11
  Murdoch to question Hill about bringing into the trial court's
• 38:15
  attention social media posts that Hill mistakenly believed
• 38:19
  were from Jurors 785's ex-husband.
• 38:23
  It's a small place, small place, right?
• 38:26
  So they're putting two and two together.
• 38:29
  Hill claimed. The jury was very talkative
• 38:31
  while while Hill walked her to the trial court's chambers and
• 38:36
  volunteered that there were restraining orders on her
• 38:39
  ex-husband when they divorced. In response to the post trial
• 38:42
  courts questioning, Hill continued to deny initiating or
• 38:46
  engaging the juror and discussion of these matters in
• 38:50
  contrast to Hill's testimony. Juror 785 take 2, Javi.
• 38:56
  Juror 785 averred at the hearing before the trial court and in an
• 39:03
  affidavit Murdoch attached to his motion for a new trial that
• 39:07
  Hill interrogated her about the social media posts and whether
• 39:11
  she had been in contact with her ex-husband.
• 39:14
  Again, completely out of bounds. In the affidavit, Juror 785
• 39:20
  related that Hill, knowing the jurors fears about her
• 39:22
  ex-husband, informed her that law enforcement officers
• 39:25
  questioned the ex-husband about the posts, offered to reinstate
• 39:29
  straight restraining orders Juror 785 had against him, and
• 39:34
  speculated that the Murdochs probably got to the ex-husband
• 39:38
  when he called Juror 785. On the morning of the verdict,
• 39:42
  Juror 785 asserted Hill asked her whether she and the other
• 39:45
  jurors were inclined to vote guilty or not and told her that
• 39:48
  everything Murdoch said had been lies.
• 39:51
  She also stated that before Murdoch testified, Hill told the
• 39:54
  jurors not to be fooled by the evidence.
• 39:56
  Murdoch Murdoch's attorneys presented.
• 40:00
  Wow. Guys, in my experience, just
• 40:05
  reporting from court, like the entire staff of the court is so
• 40:14
  just so careful not not only not to influence the jury, but not
• 40:23
  to appear to even come close to anything resembling jury
• 40:28
  tampering or or even talking to the jury.
• 40:32
  Like the only people that should be talking the the clerk of
• 40:36
  courts should not be talking to the jury.
• 40:39
  There is there are tip staff that are specifically that
• 40:45
  right. They are.
• 40:46
  They're like the jury staff that, that usher them in and out
• 40:52
  and make sure that they are in the jury room, make sure that
• 40:54
  they get their lunches and all that stuff.
• 40:57
  Clerk of courts might be a like a supervisor of that tip staff.
• 41:05
  But why? Why?
• 41:08
  I've never seen anything like this.
• 41:10
  And in, in the three counties where I cover this stuff, I know
• 41:14
  the clerks of court. They are always so professional.
• 41:19
  I I and I live in a small place where this kind of stuff could
• 41:24
  happen, right? Well, it could happen anywhere,
• 41:27
  but where it where I feel like it's more likely.
• 41:32
  Oh my goodness. Let's let's pause here and see
• 41:34
  what you guys are saying over in the live chat.
• 41:39
  First of all, Robin, thank you very much for the Super sticker.
• 41:44
  I deeply appreciate you. Let's see.
• 41:53
  Let's see, Sarah Autumn, 27, says the important question is
• 42:01
  how many other trials did she do this to?
• 42:04
  I feel bad for that county and the job they had to have ahead
• 42:07
  of them. That is an important question.
• 42:09
  How many times did she do that? Sounds like when I'm at work.
• 42:15
  Minneapolis checking in. Yeah.
• 42:21
  Being in a room with people who you can't believe were chosen,
• 42:24
  ranging from brilliant, idiotic. Yeah.
• 42:26
  That, that is honestly, I, I, when I was in that jury
• 42:31
  deliberation room, there was one person that always comes to my
• 42:34
  mind. It was really funny because I
• 42:36
  was maybe 2526 years old, like I was a young man when, when this
• 42:42
  happened and I really wanted to be the foreperson and couldn't
• 42:48
  believe it that nobody wanted me to be the foreperson.
• 42:51
  Well, of course they didn't. I was a kid, right?
• 42:53
  Who wants, who wants a kid in charge?
• 42:55
  So I remember the foreperson and I remember like, I remember his
• 43:00
  face, I remember his voice and, and I remember thinking actually
• 43:07
  this, this guy. And as a younger guy, I really
• 43:10
  thought I had it going on. I really thought I was the
• 43:12
  smartest person in the room, in any room that I was in, as young
• 43:15
  people tend to do. But I remember thinking, man,
• 43:20
  this guy, this guy is brilliant. He's really, really smart.
• 43:23
  And then I remember another juror who was juror number one.
• 43:27
  I was juror #2 I sat next to her in the jury box for the entire
• 43:31
  trial. She took the most notes of
• 43:34
  anybody. And when we got into the jury
• 43:37
  deliberation room, it was like she was attending a different
• 43:41
  trial. She was writing on things that
• 43:43
  that didn't happen, like weren't sad, weren't testified to.
• 43:48
  It was, it was crazy, Robin says.
• 43:53
  I think it would be very interesting if you could get a
• 43:55
  court clerk to come on and share what should have happened.
• 43:58
  Yeah. Except it would probably be,
• 44:03
  yeah, that there would probably be an ethical boundary that
• 44:06
  would keep most of them from doing that.
• 44:08
  But it would be cool. Would be cool indeed.
• 44:12
  See if there's anything else. OK, great comments, guys.
• 44:15
  Great comments. Let's see.
• 44:17
  Information junkie says you were discussing cutting your hair a
• 44:19
  few episodes back. I vote to not cut your hair
• 44:22
  super short again. I know you've been waiting on my
• 44:25
  analysis. So there you go, guys.
• 44:28
  I am so ready to cut this hair. And it's borderline right now.
• 44:31
  Like I can I can cut it and donate it if I cut it short.
• 44:40
  And I I am like so past having long hair.
• 44:45
  So thank you. I was waiting for that analysis
• 44:48
  information, Jackie and I would love to hear the analysis of
• 44:53
  other viewers. If you guys want to put it in
• 44:55
  there, put GF in the comments so that I don't miss it, don't
• 44:57
  accidentally miss it. OK, let's continue coming back
• 45:00
  over here. Push the right button, Javi.
• 45:04
  Is that the right button? Thank you, Javi.
• 45:06
  OK. Rhonda Mcelveen, the Barnwell
• 45:11
  County Clerk of Court who assisted Hill with the trial,
• 45:14
  testified that Hill repeatedly told her she wanted to write a
• 45:18
  book so she could buy a lake house and a guilty verdict would
• 45:22
  be the best way to sell books. Mckelveen testified that after
• 45:27
  hearing, Hill had given a juror a ride home.
• 45:29
  What? Mcelveen counseled her that it
• 45:33
  was inappropriate and while Hill admitted she gave the juror a
• 45:37
  ride, she claimed the bailiff was with them and they did not
• 45:41
  discuss the case. Although Mcelveen did not hear
• 45:45
  Hill say anything appropriate to the jurors, she stated that Hill
• 45:48
  made comments to her staff and media members strikingly similar
• 45:53
  to those jurors Z reported, such as advising them not to be
• 45:57
  fooled by Murdoch's attorneys and to look at Murdoch's actions
• 46:00
  and movements while he testified.
• 46:02
  Finally, Mckelving testified that Hill seated a writer with
• 46:05
  court personnel. This writer wrote the foreword
• 46:08
  for Hill's book. Oh my Goodness.
• 46:13
  Wow. I, I, I was not paying attention
• 46:19
  to any of this when it was happening as far as like Hill's
• 46:24
  prosecution. OK.
• 46:26
  Next, Murdoch called the alternate juror to testify.
• 46:29
  She described the incident in which Hill made her comments
• 46:33
  before Murdoch put up his case, stating that while the jurors
• 46:35
  were assembled in one of the two jury rooms or were standing in
• 46:39
  the hall, Hill stood at the doorway and told them.
• 46:42
  They're going to say things that will try to confuse you.
• 46:45
  Don't let them confuse you or convince you or throw you off.
• 46:49
  The alternate juror also testified that Hill told the
• 46:51
  jurors not to be nervous. And don't be afraid to show your
• 46:54
  emotions because that's what they want to see.
• 46:58
  The alternate juror related she heard a court staff member say
• 47:01
  deliberation should not take long, but she could not remember
• 47:05
  who said it. In its order, the Post trial
• 47:08
  court declared the burden was on Murdoch to show both an external
• 47:12
  influence on the jury and prejudice from that influence.
• 47:16
  It then found Hill made improper comments to the jurors on the
• 47:19
  day Murdoch testified, EG this is an important day or this is
• 47:22
  an epic day, and that they should watch Murdoch's body
• 47:25
  language. The Post trial court determined
• 47:27
  Hill's denial of making these statements was not credible,
• 47:33
  finding Hill wanted to write a book which she believed a guilty
• 47:36
  verdict would help sell. She was attracted by the siren
• 47:40
  call of celebrity, and she allowed her desire for public
• 47:43
  attention of the moment to overcome her duty to her oath of
• 47:46
  office and her oath as a witness.
• 47:49
  Next, the Post trial court found these comments did not affect
• 47:54
  the juror's verdict. It explained Juror G's
• 47:56
  assertions that Hill's comments affected her verdict were
• 47:59
  ambivalent, self contradictory, and not credible, emphasizing
• 48:03
  Juror Z had acknowledged her statement in her affidavit that
• 48:06
  she had voted guilty due to pressure from other jurors.
• 48:09
  That was the more accurate statement.
• 48:12
  The Post trial court further found that Hill's comments,
• 48:14
  quote, were limited in subject and not overt as to opinion,
• 48:18
  were only heard by at most 3 jurors, and were made in a case
• 48:22
  with overwhelming and compelling evidence, close quote, and that
• 48:25
  the trials trial court's extensive instructions cured any
• 48:29
  effect. From these comments, the Post
• 48:31
  trial court concluded that while it found Murdoch had failed to
• 48:34
  meet his burden to prove prejudice, any presumption of
• 48:37
  prejudice was overcome. It therefore denied Murdoch's
• 48:40
  motion for a new trial. Murdoch timely appealed to the
• 48:43
  Court of Appeals. This Court certified the appeal
• 48:47
  of the denial of the motion for new trial and subsequently
• 48:50
  consolidated it, consolidated it with direct appeal.
• 48:54
  OK. And then it goes through the law
• 48:56
  and analysis. I don't, I don't know that we
• 48:58
  need to go through all the law and analysis.
• 49:01
  Let's because this is all going to be case law.
• 49:05
  Let's let's skip the 78,000,000 pages of this, get to the next
• 49:12
  part. It goes through rules and and if
• 49:17
  I were an attorney maybe I would analyse this a little bit, but I
• 49:20
  am just, I'm not OK. Now, so they go through all the
• 49:26
  case law for those of you listening, not watching, I yadda
• 49:30
  yadda about, oh, about 12 pages of.
• 49:33
  That OK, now we get to evidence of Murdaugh's financial crimes,
• 49:42
  OK Because we order a new trial on the basis of Hills and proper
• 49:48
  influence on the jury on appeal from the court denying
• 49:51
  Murdaugh's motion for a new trial, it is not necessary that
• 49:54
  we address the evidentiary issues Murdoch raises on appeal
• 49:58
  from his convictions and sentences.
• 49:59
  We elect, however, to offer the trial court on remand the
• 50:04
  following guidance regarding the admissibility of evidence of
• 50:07
  Murdoch's financial crimes. OK.
• 50:11
  At the time of the trial, Murdoch had been accused of and
• 50:15
  indicted for numerous financial crimes.
• 50:18
  During his testimony before the jury, Murdoch admitted he
• 50:22
  committed the financial crimes, although he had not at the time
• 50:26
  been convicted of anything. After trial, he plead guilty to
• 50:29
  the financial crimes in both state and federal court.
• 50:33
  He was sentenced to concurrent 27 years in state prison and 40
• 50:38
  years in federal prison. The State sought to admit
• 50:43
  evidence of these financial crimes during Murdoch's murder
• 50:46
  trial for the purposes of showing his motive for
• 50:48
  committing the murders. The State filed A pretrial
• 50:51
  motion in which it argued the evidence demonstrated quote,
• 50:55
  Murdoch accrued substantial debts over a period of years and
• 50:58
  to cover those debts began engaging in illicit financial
• 51:02
  crimes involving the theft and misappropriation of money from
• 51:05
  his clients and his own firm. close quote.
• 51:10
  The State emphasized that several series of events
• 51:13
  unfolded in the weeks and days leading up to the murders
• 51:16
  threatened to expose Murdoch's financial crimes, The state
• 51:19
  wrote in its motion. Quote, all of these factors
• 51:22
  start to converge on June 7/20/21, the date of the
• 51:26
  murders. That's the end of quote.
• 51:29
  The state explained its motive theory.
• 51:31
  The murders serve the Murdoch's means to shift the focus away
• 51:36
  from himself and buy himself some additional time to try and
• 51:39
  prevent his financial crimes from being uncovered.
• 51:43
  The State also stressed Murdoch's attempts to cover his
• 51:45
  financial misdeeds after the murders to support its theory of
• 51:48
  motive. Murdoch filed in memorandum
• 51:52
  arguing the financial crimes evidence should be excluded
• 51:55
  under these rules. 402-4034 O 4B.
• 52:00
  The trial court conducted A lengthy pretrial hearing but
• 52:03
  declined to rule on the admissibility of the financial
• 52:05
  crimes evidence at the time. During various breaks in the
• 52:09
  course of the trial, the State presented the testimony of eight
• 52:12
  witnesses regarding Murdoch's financial crimes outside the
• 52:15
  presence of the jury. After hearing this testimony and
• 52:18
  the arguments of both sides, the trial court found all evidence
• 52:22
  of financial crimes that may likely have led to the motive or
• 52:26
  lend itself to motive for the crime committed was admissible.
• 52:30
  The trial court stated the jury was entitled to consider whether
• 52:33
  the apparent desperation of Mr. Murdoch because of his dire
• 52:36
  financial situation, threat of being exposed for committing the
• 52:40
  crimes for which he was later charged with.
• 52:43
  Listen, you don't need to put a with after you've already done a
• 52:46
  four for which he was later charged.
• 52:49
  You could just edit out the with OK.
• 52:52
  And we can thank, I can thank Misses Curtis in 9th grade for
• 53:00
  for teaching me that one. Anyway, where we resulted in the
• 53:04
  Commission of the alleged crimes, the trial court also
• 53:07
  found this evidence of other crimes is admissible and it's
• 53:12
  non propensity as it does not suggest to the jury that the
• 53:15
  defendant has a tendency to commit murder.
• 53:19
  I specifically find that these other crimes will not lure the
• 53:23
  jury into declaring guilt on a different ground than the
• 53:26
  specific charge. The trial court found the
• 53:29
  evidence had sufficient probative value that was not
• 53:32
  substantially outweighed by any danger of unfair prejudice.
• 53:36
  The trial court issued a written order setting forth its ruling.
• 53:40
  The State then presented testimony to the jury from the 8
• 53:43
  witnesses who testified earlier, along with two additional
• 53:45
  witnesses. Through these witnesses, the
• 53:48
  State proved Murdoch committed wide-ranging financial crimes
• 53:52
  over numerous years and several general categories, including
• 53:56
  the following. One, Murdoch stole money from
• 53:59
  his clients by billing personal expenses to them under the guise
• 54:02
  of those expenses being costs associated with their cases. 2
• 54:07
  Murdoch stole money from his firm, his law firm, by
• 54:10
  instructing law firm employees to make checks payable to
• 54:13
  Palmetto State Bank, whose then chief executive officer Russell
• 54:18
  Lafitte enabled Murdoch to convert the funds for his
• 54:21
  personal use. Three, Murdoch stole money from
• 54:25
  his clients and his law firm by instructing law firm employees
• 54:29
  to make checks payable to Forge, a fake account Murdoch created
• 54:34
  to imitate the legitimate Forge Consulting LLC firm that Murdoch
• 54:40
  then deposited and used for personal expenses.
• 54:43
  And four, Murdoch stole money from Tony Satterfield by filing
• 54:47
  an insurance claim in relation to his mother Gloria
• 54:51
  Satterfield's death and collecting the insurance
• 54:55
  proceeds for personal use instead of providing the
• 54:57
  proceeds to Tony and Gloria's other son.
• 55:01
  What a winner. The State also presented
• 55:04
  evidence to the jury that Murdoch's years of appealing
• 55:07
  money or, I'm sorry, years of stealing money in these ways was
• 55:11
  about to be exposed. For example, law firm employees
• 55:14
  testified they asked Murdoch on at least two occasions in the
• 55:17
  weeks leading up to the murders about discrepancies in his
• 55:20
  financial disbursement documents in individual cases.
• 55:24
  Jeannie Seconder, the the firm's chief financial officer,
• 55:28
  testified she confronted Murdoch on the morning of the murders
• 55:30
  stating quote, I have reason to believe that you received
• 55:34
  attorneys fees in a certain case directly to you and you need to
• 55:38
  prove to me that you did not close.
• 55:41
  Quote. Other evidence indicated
• 55:44
  Sekinger was referring to $792,000 in missing attorneys
• 55:51
  fees the firm was supposed to receive from Murdoch's Co
• 55:54
  counsel Chris Wilson. The state also presented
• 55:58
  evidence that Mark Tinsley, the attorney representing the family
• 56:01
  of a young woman who died in the boat wreck that, of course,
• 56:04
  wrong button Gavin was Mallory Beach had scheduled a motion
• 56:11
  hearing for three days after the murders in which Tinsley sought
• 56:14
  to compel Murdoch to disclose his detailed financial records.
• 56:20
  Murdoch challenges the admissibility of evidence of his
• 56:23
  financial crimes under Rules 401-402-4034.
• 56:26
  Four B. And then what is it?
• 56:31
  We won't do the parentheticals as to Murdoch's relevance
• 56:34
  objection. The state argues that because
• 56:36
  Murdoch was charged with murdering his wife and son,
• 56:39
  seemingly inexplicable, I'm sorry, inexplicable conduct when
• 56:43
  standing alone, it was important that it offer evidence to
• 56:46
  explain why he did it. The State also argues Murdoch
• 56:51
  himself placed the issue of motive front and center through
• 56:53
  his own actions by suggesting to officers who arrived at Moselle
• 56:57
  on June 7th that the killer's motive stemmed from the boat
• 57:01
  wreck. Now, here is the court saying we
• 57:05
  agree with the State that evidence of Murdoch's financial
• 57:08
  crimes made the State's theory of motive more probable.
• 57:14
  Thus, we find the trial court acted within its discretion in
• 57:18
  finding the financial crimes evidence was relevant under Rule
• 57:22
  Four O 1 and Miss and admissible under Rule Four O 2.
• 57:29
  The more difficult question is whether the trial court should
• 57:32
  have excluded all or some of the financial crimes evidence
• 57:36
  pursuant to Rule 4 O 4B or Rule four O 3.
• 57:39
  We address this question as two distinct categories of issues.
• 57:44
  The first of these categories, whether the trial court should
• 57:47
  have excluded all the financial crimes evidence, is a point on
• 57:50
  which not all members of the court would have ruled the same
• 57:53
  way had we been the trial court. We each agree, however, this was
• 57:58
  a decision within the discretion of the trial court under the
• 58:01
  facts and circumstances that existed in the murder trial.
• 58:04
  What they just said there was like OK under four O 1 and four
• 58:08
  O 2. We all agree the court acted
• 58:13
  properly. So we just have these other two
• 58:17
  things now under, you know, four O 4 BI think it well under
• 58:24
  either 4 O 4B or four O 3. We all would have have ruled
• 58:32
  differently were we the trial court.
• 58:34
  However, we all agree that what the trial court did was
• 58:40
  appropriate. So they're like, yeah.
• 58:46
  So anyway, as to the second category, we will address
• 58:50
  whether the trial court should have restricted the extent to
• 58:53
  which the state was allowed to present the evidence, that is,
• 58:56
  whether the trial court should have excluded some of the
• 58:58
  evidence. We unanimously hold the trial
• 59:01
  court allowed the state to go too far.
• 59:04
  And let's see, allow the State to go far too long and far too
• 59:09
  deep into aspects of Murdoch's financial crimes that were not
• 59:13
  probative of the State's theory of motive, which gave rise to
• 59:17
  considerable danger of unfair prejudice and therefore should
• 59:21
  have been excluded. Interesting as to whether the
• 59:27
  trial court should have excluded all evidence of Murdoch's
• 59:30
  financial crimes under Rules four O 3 or 4 O 4B.
• 59:33
  We have discussed the principles applicable when a trial court is
• 59:36
  asked to exclude evidence of other crimes in numerous cases,
• 59:39
  and no further elaboration on those principles is necessary
• 59:42
  here. And then there's a whole bunch
• 59:45
  of case law as to Rule 404. B.
• 59:49
  The difficulty lies in the application of these principles
• 59:51
  to the facts and circumstances of any individual case.
• 59:56
  Here, the trial court correctly understood the applicable
• 59:59
  principles of law and thoughtfully applied those
• 1:00:01
  principles to the facts and circumstances before it.
• 1:00:03
  The trial court explained its view of the logical connection
• 1:00:06
  between the financial crimes and Murdoch's motive.
• 1:00:09
  The state argument that it presented A valid theory of
• 1:00:12
  motive and Murdoch's response that fabricated motive theory is
• 1:00:15
  illogical and plausible and not supported by the evidence was
• 1:00:19
  not a dispute for the trial court to resolve by making this
• 1:00:23
  evidentiary ruling. That was for the jury.
• 1:00:27
  The trial court's job was to turn was to determine in its
• 1:00:30
  discretion whether the State's theory of motive was reasonably
• 1:00:35
  plausible and, if so, whether the evidence the State presented
• 1:00:38
  could reasonably support the theory.
• 1:00:40
  We agree with the State that under the facts and
• 1:00:42
  circumstances in existence in Murdoch's first trial, the trial
• 1:00:46
  court acted within its discretion in deciding not to
• 1:00:49
  exclude the evidence under 404B as to Rule 4.
• 1:00:52
  O3. The trial court balanced the
• 1:00:53
  probative value of the evidence against its potential for unfair
• 1:00:57
  prejudice and concluded the probative value was not
• 1:01:01
  substantially outweighed by any unfair prejudice.
• 1:01:04
  The trial court specifically found Murdoch's Commission of
• 1:01:06
  the financial crimes does not suggest that the jury or to the
• 1:01:10
  jury that the defendant has a tendency to commit murder.
• 1:01:13
  As we will discuss below, we find considerable unfair
• 1:01:16
  prejudice in allowing the State to go as far and deep into
• 1:01:19
  detail as it did. However, we hold the trial court
• 1:01:23
  acted within its discretion in admitting some evidence of his
• 1:01:27
  financial crimes. And then there's case law.
• 1:01:30
  We emphasize, however, the trial court should have limited the
• 1:01:33
  State's presentation of this evidence.
• 1:01:35
  We illustrate this point with an example from the direct
• 1:01:38
  examination of Tony Satterfield. State, why were you the personal
• 1:01:43
  representative and not your brother Satterfield?
• 1:01:45
  Because my brother is a vulnerable adult and he has a
• 1:01:48
  disability court. Can you repeat those words for
• 1:01:50
  me, Satterfield that my brother, he's a vulnerable adult and he's
• 1:01:55
  not able to function as a normal human being to deal with stuff
• 1:01:58
  like that, state he's a vulnerable adult.
• 1:02:01
  Satterfield yes. This particular testimony
• 1:02:05
  continues. The court had 0 probative value
• 1:02:08
  as to Murdoch's motive for the murders and obviously high
• 1:02:12
  potential for unfair prejudice as it portrays Murdoch as a man
• 1:02:16
  who preys on vulnerable victims. Interesting.
• 1:02:27
  I'm sure that when the Satterfield made that testimony,
• 1:02:30
  the state was like, can you repeat that, please repeat that,
• 1:02:33
  right? Much of the additional details
• 1:02:36
  the State presented as to Murdoch's financial crimes had
• 1:02:39
  little or no probative value for the purpose of establishing
• 1:02:41
  Murdoch's motive. The State's theory of motive
• 1:02:44
  centers on the point that his financial crimes were about to
• 1:02:48
  be exposed and he needed time. The fact he committed some of
• 1:02:51
  those crimes against a vulnerable adult adds nothing to
• 1:02:54
  the theory. To the extent many similar
• 1:02:57
  details may have had minimal probative value, that value is
• 1:03:01
  substantially outweighed by the unfairly prejudicial sympathy of
• 1:03:05
  the jury was likely to feel toward this victim.
• 1:03:08
  By our calculation, the state spent a total of 12 1/2 hours of
• 1:03:13
  actual testimony before the jury over 10 days of trial to
• 1:03:17
  introduce evidence related to Murdoch's financial crimes.
• 1:03:20
  We are convinced the state should have effectively
• 1:03:23
  presented evidence to support its motive theory in a fraction
• 1:03:27
  of that time. So this is a bit of a win.
• 1:03:30
  This is a bit of a win for Murdoch if he's getting a new
• 1:03:33
  trial, which he is. The court appears, to me anyway,
• 1:03:40
  to be limiting what what the trial court should allow the
• 1:03:46
  state to do. They're saying that there was
• 1:03:50
  prejudicial testimony. Who?
• 1:03:56
  12 1/2 hours of it? Well, Moat, I don't know.
• 1:04:01
  Some of the 12 1/2 hours was prejudicial testimony.
• 1:04:05
  OK. By holding the trial court in
• 1:04:07
  this case acted within its discretion and admitting some
• 1:04:10
  evidence of Murdoch's financial crimes, we certainly do not
• 1:04:13
  intend to require the evidence be admitted on retrial.
• 1:04:19
  So you don't have to do it. As is often the case, the facts
• 1:04:22
  and circumstances on retrial may be material different from those
• 1:04:26
  presented in the initial trial. Thus, the trial court must trial
• 1:04:31
  court on remand must do, as the trial court did here, carefully
• 1:04:35
  and thoughtfully apply correct principles of law to the facts
• 1:04:38
  and circumstances before it. We do intend to require,
• 1:04:41
  however, that if the trial court decides to admit evidence of
• 1:04:45
  Murdoch's financial crimes on retrial, the State must complete
• 1:04:49
  its introduction of that evidence efficiently without the
• 1:04:52
  lengthy presentation of inflammatory details with little
• 1:04:55
  to no probative value that was permitted in the first trial.
• 1:04:59
  Interesting guys. Oh, listen, you can never trust
• 1:05:04
  a jury. I, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not
• 1:05:08
  saying jurors are bad people. What I'm saying is you can never
• 1:05:11
  trust them to come back with what you think that they should
• 1:05:15
  come back with. I personally have watched 2
• 1:05:19
  murder trials in the last two and a half, three years in
• 1:05:24
  Western Pennsylvania where I was just like, dude, because I was,
• 1:05:29
  I was Privy to all the other hearings, right?
• 1:05:31
  The jury got this wrong. The jury got it wrong.
• 1:05:36
  And in both cases they, they convicted the guy.
• 1:05:40
  And in one of the cases, one of the jurors is an acquaintance, a
• 1:05:46
  friendly acquaintance of mine. And I just like, I won't talk to
• 1:05:49
  him about it because I'm like, dude, you just got it so wrong.
• 1:05:53
  Anyway, conclusion. Let's see before we get to the
• 1:05:56
  conclusion, let's see what you guys are saying over here.
• 1:06:02
  Clarinet girl, says Gavin. As a S Carolinian, I watched
• 1:06:06
  every second of the trial. Stealing money from his longtime
• 1:06:09
  lawyer friends is despicable. It is, I agree, Robin says.
• 1:06:14
  But also, you shouldn't put a with if you have a 42.
• 1:06:20
  Exactly, exactly. Poor English skills brought to
• 1:06:24
  you by. Not paying attention.
• 1:06:29
  That is funny. And Mooney is like, there's no
• 1:06:33
  way this man spent millions on an addiction.
• 1:06:36
  Yeah, I don't. I don't know what he was
• 1:06:38
  spending it on. I don't.
• 1:06:42
  I don't know. Yeah.
• 1:06:46
  Great comments. OK, Conclusion.
• 1:06:48
  As the 4th Circuit declared, the Remmer presumption is alive and
• 1:06:54
  well. It serves to protect the right
• 1:06:56
  to a fair trial by an impartial jury for all defendants.
• 1:06:59
  Here, Hill, the Colton County Clerk of Court, egregiously
• 1:07:04
  attacked Murdoch's credibility and his defense, thus triggering
• 1:07:08
  the presumption of prejudice which the State was unable to
• 1:07:13
  rebut. As noted at the outset, Hill's
• 1:07:16
  shocking jury interference was accomplished outside the
• 1:07:20
  presence and knowledge of the outstanding trial judge, the
• 1:07:23
  superbly competent and professional counsel for the
• 1:07:26
  State, and the defense. Another, another compliment to
• 1:07:30
  the court and both sides of this.
• 1:07:33
  We are accordingly constrained to reverse the Post trial
• 1:07:36
  court's denial of Murdoch's motion and remand for a new
• 1:07:40
  trial consistent with this opinion.
• 1:07:43
  Reversed and remanded. KITTERIDGE, CJ.
• 1:07:48
  Few, James Hill and Vernon, JJ, concur.
• 1:07:55
  So Kitteridge is the chief judge.
• 1:07:58
  I don't know what JJ is. I guess they're associate judges
• 1:08:03
  or junior judges. I don't know.
• 1:08:04
  I don't know what they call them there in South Carolina, but OK.
• 1:08:08
  So what did we learn? One, Miss Hill acted as a piece
• 1:08:13
  of dookie. I was about to say that Hill is
• 1:08:15
  a piece of dookie. I don't know if I'd go that far.
• 1:08:18
  She certainly acted like 1 and she pleaded guilty to her
• 1:08:22
  actions. And therefore I am not going to
• 1:08:26
  use alleged. I like this picture where she's
• 1:08:29
  like, oh, I am underoath. I will not perjure myself later
• 1:08:34
  on. I, I, I plead guilty to perjury.
• 1:08:39
  She acted like a little piece of Duke Duke.
• 1:08:42
  And she is now giving this murderer a, a new trial.
• 1:08:53
  And you know what that makes me guys?
• 1:08:55
  I don't. I don't pull this one out very
• 1:08:56
  often. It makes me.
• 1:09:07
  That's what it makes me. It makes me PISTI am OFT of the
• 1:09:14
  of the of the pissiness. That's what I am.
• 1:09:18
  This woman right here thinking long carefully while she's in
• 1:09:23
  court who acted as a piece of dookie.
• 1:09:28
  And now, I mean, what's going to happen?
• 1:09:31
  Well, I mean, the the state has been constrained more than they
• 1:09:35
  were before. The state has been constrained
• 1:09:38
  in the amount of evidence that they can put forward on the
• 1:09:41
  financial crimes. And the court basically said you
• 1:09:46
  can only, you can only present evidence of financial crimes
• 1:09:51
  that go to motive, not go to character, not you may not
• 1:09:58
  prejudice the jury. And so if we've got, if we don't
• 1:10:03
  have this lady outside the courtroom prejudicing the jury
• 1:10:09
  and we don't have the state inside the courtroom prejudicing
• 1:10:14
  the jury because of presentation of his financial crimes, will
• 1:10:20
  the next jury be a little more sympathetic to this guy?
• 1:10:32
  I don't know. I hope not because I think he
• 1:10:36
  murdered his wife and son, which is just a new level of evil.
• 1:10:42
  It it's a it's a different level of evil.
• 1:10:45
  Like on on the murder spectrum. It's it's to me, murdering your
• 1:10:53
  own wife and child is beyond it's like from, I don't know,
• 1:11:00
  from manslaughter to Jeffrey Dahmer.
• 1:11:02
  It's past Jeffrey Dahmer, right? It, it's, it's beyond
• 1:11:06
  cannibalism. It's beyond serial.
• 1:11:11
  I that that is just my opinion. It's just, it's just terrible.
• 1:11:15
  It's terrible. It's terrible.
• 1:11:20
  So I, yeah, I fear a little bit that there will be an idiot
• 1:11:25
  juror that will, you know, cause a mistrial or I mean, just as
• 1:11:34
  bad would be, or even worse would be somebody who is sincere
• 1:11:40
  and is able to convince the other jurors that he is not
• 1:11:45
  guilty. And that I mean that is.
• 1:11:49
  That's a frightening thought. See what you guys are saying
• 1:11:55
  over here? Robin is asking how much do I
• 1:12:00
  pay my little sister for the pist residuals?
• 1:12:04
  I pay her nothing for nothing except I really, really love,
• 1:12:11
  you know, I, I, I, I did buy her a, a frozen yogurt while I was
• 1:12:18
  in town couple weeks ago. I did do that.
• 1:12:23
  Yeah. All right.
• 1:12:26
  That's, that is our report today, guys, on the on the
• 1:12:32
  situation with Alex Murdoch. I mean, the good news is we will
• 1:12:36
  be and the bad news is we'll be talking about Alex Murdoch now
• 1:12:40
  for the for the foreseeable future.
• 1:12:42
  Dang it, but. I mean.
• 1:12:48
  That's what we do here, right? But we're not done.
• 1:12:52
  Don't despair, my friends. Do not despair.
• 1:12:56
  We have more stuff to do before we call it a night.
• 1:13:00
  What should we do first? I think we stay in order.
• 1:13:06
  Let's head on into three questions.
• 1:13:08
  It's three questions with Gavin Fish.
• 1:13:15
  Okie, dokie guys, in this segment, as you know, unless
• 1:13:20
  you're new here, and if you are new here, thank you so much for
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  Just really excited. OK, question number one in oh,
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  in this segment, I answer 3 questions that are sent to three
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  questions at gavinfish.com. Three questions at gavinfish.com
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  spelled out THREE questions at gavinfish.com.
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  I solemnly promise that I will answer all of y'all's questions,
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  but and I will do so completely into the best of my knowledge.
• 1:14:41
  I, I particularly like the kinds of questions that y'all can
• 1:14:44
  answer in the in the live comments and in the comments
• 1:14:50
  afterwards for the re Watch crew on Spotify and on YouTube and on
• 1:14:55
  Facebook and wherever you get your podcasts.
• 1:14:59
  But you can ask me anything. The only, the only catch is I
• 1:15:03
  get to answer the questions in the order that I deem that I
• 1:15:08
  want to order them in. So this one from Kelly.
• 1:15:11
  Will you be following the Sandra Birchmore case?
• 1:15:13
  Yes, I am drawn to cases of corruption and acrimony.
• 1:15:18
  I especially abhor police corruption.
• 1:15:24
  Police corruption on like an office level or on an individual
• 1:15:27
  level. I hate it.
• 1:15:29
  And poor Sandra Birchmore was abused and murdered and we will
• 1:15:35
  be following the case. Yes, thank you, Kelly.
• 1:15:39
  I will. I will put a button on my stream
• 1:15:41
  deck here so that I don't forget.
• 1:15:43
  Thank you so much for that. CM Warren, 58, says in a court
• 1:15:46
  of law, would you rather be a defender or a prosecutor?
• 1:15:52
  I feel no, I, I don't feel more more drawn to either side.
• 1:16:05
  I think that both sides are important.
• 1:16:07
  I think of the both. I think that attorneys that go
• 1:16:10
  into criminal law should be both.
• 1:16:12
  They should, they should start somewhere and try the other
• 1:16:15
  side. Like Josh Ritter, right?
• 1:16:19
  He's a prosecutor in Los Angeles County for years and now he's a
• 1:16:23
  criminal defense attorney. And I think that's terrific.
• 1:16:26
  So I'm not drawn to either one. But you know what?
• 1:16:29
  I am drawn to a better living. And if you're a good defense
• 1:16:33
  attorney, make a good living is so that's probably where I would
• 1:16:37
  go And and I would be OK defending the O JS Simpson of
• 1:16:42
  the world. The Believe it or not, the
• 1:16:46
  Stephens Stern, the the, the David's Burke, I, I would be
• 1:16:55
  fine defending them because I deeply believe that our system
• 1:16:59
  of our judicial system is the best in the world, certainly
• 1:17:02
  flawed, but it's the best in the world and that defendants
• 1:17:06
  deserve a vigorous and and competent defense.
• 1:17:13
  Having said all that, I am not a lawyer question #3 what's 1
• 1:17:22
  hobby you've always wanted to try this from Kim?
• 1:17:26
  Guys, here's the thing about me and you may have picked up on
• 1:17:30
  this. If I have an interest in
• 1:17:33
  something, I do it. I try it there.
• 1:17:35
  There is nothing that I have always wanted to do that I have
• 1:17:40
  not done it. And it's something that is a
• 1:17:44
  bit. I mean, you can, you can
• 1:17:45
  definitely. What's the word?
• 1:17:48
  I'm looking for you. You could criticize me for that.
• 1:17:53
  I mean, you know, there's a there there, there's a family in
• 1:18:00
  Northern California that made a whole video on me and they and
• 1:18:03
  they talked about how, oh, he claims he's this, he's claims
• 1:18:06
  he's that and he claims he's done this.
• 1:18:08
  But nobody does all those things.
• 1:18:10
  Well, I am a person that is a curious person.
• 1:18:13
  And so, yeah, I have done all the things that I say I've done.
• 1:18:18
  I don't claim that I'm good or particularly accomplished at any
• 1:18:23
  one of them. What is a hobby that I've always
• 1:18:26
  wanted to try? I've, I've, I've tried all of
• 1:18:29
  them that I wanted to try. And if something comes up and I
• 1:18:35
  and it's something new or it tickles my fancy for the first
• 1:18:39
  time and I say, man, I want to try that, You know what I'm
• 1:18:42
  going to do? I'm going to try it.
• 1:18:44
  It's what I do. And poor Kimberly, my sweetie
• 1:18:47
  pie, my snuggly bear, my one and only, she just has to deal with.
• 1:18:51
  I'm like, I'm like Doug on up, right?
• 1:18:55
  It's like squirrel. I'm that guy.
• 1:18:59
  I something comes up and I'm like, I, I mean, I just started
• 1:19:03
  painting like in the last five or six months.
• 1:19:06
  I had never painted before in my life and I'm not particularly
• 1:19:10
  good at it, but I'm doing it and I'm having fun and it's, it's
• 1:19:14
  bringing me some, some self therapy.
• 1:19:18
  So yeah. And yeah, it, it probably drove
• 1:19:21
  her nuts that I spent a couple 100 bucks on, on paints and on
• 1:19:26
  actually didn't because she came home with some canvases for me.
• 1:19:30
  She she, she, she knew that it was good for my mental health.
• 1:19:34
  But anyway, yeah, my, my poor wife.
• 1:19:36
  And like right now, like, let me tell you one thing that I'm
• 1:19:39
  really into right now, and it's family history.
• 1:19:45
  I have thousands of negatives that I'm digitizing right now
• 1:19:50
  and I'm having such a good time doing it.
• 1:19:53
  And it's not only family history.
• 1:19:55
  I mean those negatives are all from my parents but and my
• 1:20:00
  grandparents. But I'm doing it for, I'm like,
• 1:20:05
  I'm like digitizing things for, you know, kids that I went to
• 1:20:10
  school with elementary school and and middle school and high
• 1:20:14
  school. Like I, I'm just enjoying
• 1:20:19
  creating A and documenting a personal history and a history
• 1:20:23
  of, of my friends. And so there's always something
• 1:20:27
  that I'm going to be trying that's new things that I'm
• 1:20:30
  returning to. Like right now we're building
• 1:20:32
  out. I've got everything now we're,
• 1:20:34
  we're actually we're on Saturday.
• 1:20:38
  I am my son and I are going to be developing film, black and
• 1:20:42
  white film. That was my hobby when I was a
• 1:20:45
  teenager. It was my passion when I was a
• 1:20:47
  teenager. I haven't done it in 35 years,
• 1:20:50
  but well, it's 30, three years or something like that, right?
• 1:20:54
  I think I was 17 the last time I developed a roll of film.
• 1:20:59
  And on Saturday, that's what we're doing.
• 1:21:01
  We're developing A roll of film. And it's just, it's just fun.
• 1:21:07
  And I bought you, you see the camera behind me, that little
• 1:21:10
  Mamia RZ 67, that that was my dream camera when I was a kid.
• 1:21:13
  There's no way that I could afford it.
• 1:21:15
  And I bought it last year and now I'm getting everything ready
• 1:21:22
  so that I can do everything from taking the medium format photos
• 1:21:26
  all the way through printing them.
• 1:21:28
  And I'm, I'm just, I just, that's what I do.
• 1:21:31
  And then, you know, in a few months, the dark room will, will
• 1:21:36
  go dark, you know, for a while and I'll move on to something
• 1:21:39
  else. It's just kind of my, it's who I
• 1:21:41
  am. I'd love to hear what you guys,
• 1:21:44
  what you guys do. So what are your answers to
• 1:21:46
  these three questions, right? What's a hobby that you've
• 1:21:49
  always wanted to try? Or are you more like me?
• 1:21:53
  Would you rather be a defense attorney or a prosecutor?
• 1:21:55
  And do you think I should be following the Sandra Birchmore
• 1:21:59
  case? And what are other cases that
• 1:22:00
  you think I should be following? And while you are telling me
• 1:22:04
  that in the chat, let's catch up in our final segment on some
• 1:22:11
  headlines that are happening in the world of true crime.
• 1:22:14
  Here we go, true crime headlines, guys, I don't know
• 1:22:23
  why I'm doing this to myself. I don't know why I am doing this
• 1:22:26
  to myself, but I, there is a Kourtney Kardashian angle on on
• 1:22:34
  the Nancy Guthrie case. Why am I even bringing this up?
• 1:22:38
  I you know why? You know why?
• 1:22:40
  It's because I think that the case needs to continue to have
• 1:22:45
  eyeballs on it. So not Courtney, I don't even
• 1:22:49
  Chloe, I don't even know which one that is.
• 1:22:52
  I just I, but she said something about the case that made a whole
• 1:22:58
  people, bunch of people report on it and a bunch of
• 1:23:01
  publications and that is a good thing.
• 1:23:03
  So here we are, USA TODAY written by Saman Shafiq Khloe
• 1:23:07
  Kardashian thinks there is more to Nancy Guthrie's
• 1:23:10
  disappearance. While I am all ears to Khloe
• 1:23:14
  Kardashian, Khloe Kardashian does not understand why Nancy
• 1:23:19
  Guthrie is still missing. Quote Nancy Guthrie.
• 1:23:21
  I mean, is that not heartbreaking?
• 1:23:24
  The Kardashian sister said on her podcast Khloe in Wonderland,
• 1:23:28
  Uploaded May 13th. This is 2026.
• 1:23:30
  There is nothing. Kardashian, a self confessed
• 1:23:34
  true crime junkie. OK, well I shouldn't, I
• 1:23:36
  shouldn't come down on her. That's who we all are was in
• 1:23:39
  conversation with weekly true crime podcast Crime Junkie host
• 1:23:43
  Ashley Flowers, who, according to the episode's description,
• 1:23:46
  has helped solve over 20 cold cases.
• 1:23:48
  Wow, let's see. Kardashian said while she's not
• 1:23:53
  sure if she knows enough about the case, things like the
• 1:23:56
  brother-in-law, the ransom notes to media, to media outlets and
• 1:24:01
  that kind of stuff were weird. OK, yeah, we all know.
• 1:24:06
  OK, Anyway, let's just remember Nancy Guthrie.
• 1:24:10
  It's still not solved, OK? Whether Khloe, I'm happy that
• 1:24:14
  Khloe Kardashian has brought maybe a little bit of adrenaline
• 1:24:18
  to the case. I, I just can't continue to read
• 1:24:21
  it. I just, I just can't.
• 1:24:24
  OK, Next headline in the Anna Kepner case, Not surprisingly,
• 1:24:28
  we've had a postponement of the jury trial.
• 1:24:30
  This reported by FOX35 in Orlando written by Camille
• 1:24:35
  Sarabia. Anna Kepner Update September
• 1:24:38
  Jury trial date for stepbrother accused of killing teen girl
• 1:24:43
  Dateline Titusville, FL A trial date for a Florida teen accused
• 1:24:47
  of killing his step sister while on family vacation has been
• 1:24:51
  moved to September. Timothy Hudson, 16, who was
• 1:24:55
  accused of killing Titusville cheerleader Anna Kepner in
• 1:24:58
  November 2025 while on a Carnival cruise trip, will have
• 1:25:02
  a jury will have a criminal jury trial in four months on
• 1:25:06
  September 8th. Hudson's initial trial date was
• 1:25:09
  June 1st. This new trial date comes after
• 1:25:12
  Hudson pleaded not guilty on April 22nd and requested a jury
• 1:25:15
  trial. Of course, we all need to keep
• 1:25:18
  in mind that they have to put the date on the calendar.
• 1:25:22
  Will the state stick? I doubt it.
• 1:25:27
  Less than a year between the time the crime happened and the
• 1:25:31
  trial? Not likely.
• 1:25:34
  Not likely. He's already waived his right to
• 1:25:36
  a free trial. Just I don't think there's
• 1:25:39
  anything else. Yeah.
• 1:25:45
  OK. So he'll be back in court on May
• 1:25:48
  22nd. That that's basically what we
• 1:25:50
  need to know here. Hey in the Judge Kevin Mullins
• 1:25:54
  murderer, we've got a little bit of movement.
• 1:25:58
  Written by Anthony Sizemore for WYMT.
• 1:26:02
  Court appearance ordered for former sheriff charged with
• 1:26:05
  murder dateline Letcher County, Kentucky Former Letcher County
• 1:26:10
  Sheriff Sean Mickey Stein's has been ordered to appear in court
• 1:26:13
  next month, new court documents say.
• 1:26:15
  A status hearing, as well as a hearing on all pending motions
• 1:26:18
  was scheduled for 10 AM on June 5th inside the Leslie County
• 1:26:23
  District courtroom. Excuse me if the court is
• 1:26:26
  expected to hear arguments from the parties on all pending
• 1:26:29
  pretrial motions. Of course, that was all kind of
• 1:26:33
  postponed while the defense was trying to get the judge kicked
• 1:26:36
  from the case. I did get this document from the
• 1:26:39
  court. It basically just says what the
• 1:26:41
  report says. So I, I can upload it to, to
• 1:26:44
  Patreon if you guys want that document, which I, I will gladly
• 1:26:47
  do that. I will do that tonight.
• 1:26:49
  And then finally for headlines before we get into good news,
• 1:26:53
  this from FOX 56. You guys remember the case of
• 1:26:56
  Lakin Snelling written by Corey Elam, Lincoln Snelling.
• 1:27:01
  Lakin Snelling former University of Kentucky student indicted in
• 1:27:05
  baby's death due in Fayette County Circuit Court ahead of
• 1:27:09
  status hearing Dateline Lexington, a former University
• 1:27:14
  of Kentucky student indicted in March in connection with the
• 1:27:17
  death of her baby in 2025, is due in court on Thursday for a
• 1:27:20
  pretrial hearance. That would have happened today.
• 1:27:23
  I wonder if there is are any reports of what happened.
• 1:27:31
  Let me see if there's any, any new reports here.
• 1:27:37
  There aren't. There aren't any new reports.
• 1:27:40
  So we'll, we'll continue with this one.
• 1:27:42
  Snelling, 22, is indicted on March 10th and entered a not
• 1:27:46
  guilty plea to charges of first degree manslaughter, abusive
• 1:27:49
  corpse, tampering with physical evidence, and concealing the
• 1:27:52
  birth of an infant infant at 10:30 AM on Thursday, May 14th.
• 1:27:59
  Snelling is Snelling is due in court for pretrial conference
• 1:28:02
  ahead of a status hearing scheduled for June 12th.
• 1:28:05
  So not much is going to happen there.
• 1:28:07
  It's just that we know that something is happening and that
• 1:28:11
  is a good thing. Now I want to get to some good
• 1:28:14
  news. But Wanda, let's how about how
• 1:28:18
  about some transition music? What do you.
• 1:28:20
  Oh, oh, they're all here. Yes, please.
• 1:28:24
  Let's, let's have your nephews and your grandchildren
• 1:28:28
  transition us to a happy, happy, good news.
• 1:28:32
  Let's hear it. Oh.
• 1:28:43
  I like the clicks, fellas. Do you have anything else that
• 1:28:46
  you could do? Yeah.
• 1:28:57
  Oh, it's still going. Well done, guys.
• 1:29:02
  That was a good transition to some good news from the Good
• 1:29:05
  News Network written by Andy Corbley.
• 1:29:09
  A study shows litter declined 34% across America since 2020.
• 1:29:16
  And that makes me happy. And it certainly makes the man
• 1:29:22
  in the 1970s commercials who was in imitating a Native American
• 1:29:28
  was not a Native American and had a tear going down his.
• 1:29:31
  It has to make him happy, OK? Andy writes.
• 1:29:34
  Litter across America has declined 34% since 2020,
• 1:29:39
  according to a new report from the charity Keep America
• 1:29:43
  Beautiful. The report reckons that every
• 1:29:46
  American share of litter along roadways and waterways has
• 1:29:50
  fallen over that time, from 152 pieces to 96.
• 1:29:55
  Guys, my share of litter across the highways is 0.
• 1:30:01
  If something accidentally blows out of the window and I'm going
• 1:30:04
  95 miles an hour, which I wouldn't do because I, I am, I
• 1:30:08
  am an obeyer of traffic laws. I would turn around, go back and
• 1:30:14
  find that piece of like I was taught well by my parents.
• 1:30:18
  But but I see how averages work. I I am responsible for 96
• 1:30:23
  apparently. Decades ago, GNN founder Jerry
• 1:30:27
  Weiss Corbley organized a local spring cleanup along her
• 1:30:30
  neighborhood's country roads every year when she was raising
• 1:30:32
  kids. Quote I can tell looking at the
• 1:30:35
  roads now that littering is way down because I live in the same
• 1:30:38
  neighborhood and there aren't any organized cleanups anymore.
• 1:30:41
  Close Quote The study, which updates the groundbreaking Keep
• 1:30:45
  America Beautiful Take Two Hobby Keep America Beautiful 2020
• 1:30:51
  National Litter Study, is the most extensive research
• 1:30:55
  conducted in U.S. history to estimate the scope, scale,
• 1:30:59
  causes and impacts of litter. KAB states that it provides both
• 1:31:04
  a progress report and a road map for where urgent action on
• 1:31:08
  litter is still needed as the country approaches its 250th
• 1:31:13
  birthday in in less than two months.
• 1:31:16
  By the numbers, roadway litter declined 22%, 23.7 billion to
• 1:31:23
  18.4 billion pieces, while waterway litter fell 45% from
• 1:31:27
  25.9 billion to 14.2 billion pieces.
• 1:31:31
  By the way, I can, I encourage everybody to follow Ocean
• 1:31:37
  Cleanup, go on YouTube, search them.
• 1:31:40
  They're doing amazing work and they're focusing.
• 1:31:43
  They, they want to, they want to clean our oceans and they're
• 1:31:47
  focusing on the rivers where all the waste comes from.
• 1:31:50
  It's brilliant ocean cleanup. Go check them out.
• 1:31:53
  The declines are being driven by a combination of factors,
• 1:31:56
  education that shapes behavior, strong local programs and
• 1:31:59
  enforcement, better infrastructure and access to
• 1:32:02
  waste systems, and increased public engagement from
• 1:32:05
  businesses, organizations, governments and individuals.
• 1:32:08
  Quote This study proves what we've always believed.
• 1:32:12
  Litter is solvable when people, systems and partners work
• 1:32:15
  together, said Jennifer Lawson, president and CEO of Keep
• 1:32:19
  America Beautiful. Quote the declines show us
• 1:32:23
  what's possible when communities act with urgency and commitment.
• 1:32:26
  But our work is far from done. With 35 billion pieces of litter
• 1:32:29
  still out there and new types emerging, we must scale what's
• 1:32:33
  working, close the remaining gaps in infrastructure and and
• 1:32:37
  access and continue building on this momentum.
• 1:32:40
  Nearly 90% of Americans feel response personal responsibility
• 1:32:44
  to reduce litter and 93 agree. 93% agree it's a shared
• 1:32:48
  community responsibility among those pulled for the study.
• 1:32:51
  So guys, yeah, you can keep reading the rest of it.
• 1:32:54
  It is LinkedIn, the description and show notes.
• 1:32:58
  But that is I don't know that's that's happy news.
• 1:33:02
  That is happy, happy news. I am grateful that litter is on
• 1:33:09
  the decline. So awesome.
• 1:33:11
  Before we go, let's just see what your answers are to three
• 1:33:15
  questions. What do we got?
• 1:33:17
  What do we got? Let's see seashore.
• 1:33:20
  CJ says nice job of covering Murdah mess.
• 1:33:24
  Thank you. Mooney says I want to skydive.
• 1:33:28
  Forgot to put AGF in my comment. Yeah, I would have missed that.
• 1:33:34
  Skydiving isn't anything that I ever really cared to do, but my
• 1:33:37
  oldest sister and brother-in-law and like a few of their kids
• 1:33:40
  went skydiving pretty recently for the first time.
• 1:33:43
  And that, that's pretty cool. I just, I just don't want to
• 1:33:48
  jump out of a perfectly good airplane.
• 1:33:50
  I, I, I like the flying part of it.
• 1:33:52
  Falling part of it, not so much, Elizabeth says.
• 1:33:55
  I would prefer being a prosecutor, especially today.
• 1:33:58
  I'm an elder law and estate planning attorney and I need a
• 1:34:02
  break. Bring on the criminals.
• 1:34:04
  Nice. Archangel Morici.
• 1:34:07
  OK, first TMZ and now the Kardashians.
• 1:34:09
  I know, I know. I deserve that comment.
• 1:34:11
  I deserve that comment. And Elizabeth says, well, thank
• 1:34:15
  you. Chloe.
• 1:34:19
  Clarinet girl, are you following Lynette Hooker case out of the
• 1:34:22
  Bahamas? Is this is one that Joel is, is
• 1:34:26
  following, right. I need to I need to definitely
• 1:34:29
  need to do that. Thank you very much.
• 1:34:33
  Just ducky says my friends got me into their hobby of ham radio
• 1:34:37
  after they connected with the International Space Station.
• 1:34:41
  True story. I was hooked.
• 1:34:42
  That's cool. Ham radio is cool.
• 1:34:45
  I like ham. I, I mean, that's nothing that
• 1:34:47
  I've ever done, but I did do the ham radio merit badge as a, as a
• 1:34:52
  kiddo. So I was exposed to it, right
• 1:34:56
  And, and it was fun. Clarinet Girl continues.
• 1:35:01
  Ashley Banfield has lots of comments on the Lynette Hooker,
• 1:35:04
  lots of videos on the Lynette Hooker case.
• 1:35:07
  I will check that out. Thank you.
• 1:35:09
  Marie Jubenville says I would love to write a children's book
• 1:35:12
  about children with disabilities in the overall message that they
• 1:35:15
  are not alone and never give up. That would be, that would be
• 1:35:18
  terrific. You should do that, Archangel
• 1:35:22
  Morici says. Sorry to say, but Wanda's son is
• 1:35:24
  too low. He's a little little flat.
• 1:35:27
  Is that what you're saying? A little flat or, or does or is
• 1:35:32
  he right on pitch but it hurts your ear?
• 1:35:37
  Guys, can we hear that one more time?
• 1:35:38
  Let's hear it transition.
• 1:35:51
  No, no, I think he's right on, but you know what who knows who
• 1:35:56
  knows thank you very much for that one.
• 1:35:58
  I guys, I appreciate your comments.
• 1:36:01
  You guys are amazing. Thank you for joining me.
• 1:36:04
  I am so sorry that I missed yesterday dealing with gremlins
• 1:36:08
  with Oh, the volume was too low there.
• 1:36:13
  Oh, I have the volume turned down.
• 1:36:16
  You're right. You're right.
• 1:36:17
  OK, one more time, guys. Here we go.
• 1:36:19
  Let's transition now. Yes, transition
• 1:36:32
  transition now. That's much better.
• 1:36:34
  OK, man, I had that turned down. Dang it.
• 1:36:38
  I'm sorry you couldn't hear that the the transition music was not
• 1:36:42
  not good today. I blame myself.
• 1:36:46
  You guys might want to blame Javier Marcelo, Guillermo
• 1:36:49
  Quanco, Ruben Navarro, Torres de Los Andes, but it wasn't him, it
• 1:36:54
  was me. And I will repent.
• 1:36:58
  I have repented. I have made it right and will
• 1:37:03
  try. And you know what, Wanda?
• 1:37:05
  I think what we need to do is we need to come up with some good
• 1:37:08
  news, specific music, some just some music to go into good news.
• 1:37:14
  You think you can do that? Like I I think we should.
• 1:37:18
  It's it's become a thing. We're sticking with it.
• 1:37:20
  It's become a segment. We should have a we should have
• 1:37:22
  a Stinger for it. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:37:24
  OK, we're going to do that. Guys.
• 1:37:26
  Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:37:27
  Do not forget about the giveaway.
• 1:37:30
  It supports the channel. It supports my work.
• 1:37:32
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• 1:37:36
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• 1:37:41
  Please head over to fanofthem.com/gavin Fish.
• 1:37:47
  The deadline is May 21st. That's like less than a week
• 1:37:51
  away now at 11:59 PM Pacific Time.
• 1:37:56
  And then we will, we will. Well, we won't.
• 1:38:01
  A third party is going to, is going to find a winner, is going
• 1:38:05
  to like draw a winner. And I'm pretty stoked about
• 1:38:08
  that. So fanofthem.com/gavin Fish, you
• 1:38:11
  can always visit me on the old website, gavinfish.com.
• 1:38:16
  Let's bring that up there. gavinfish.com.
• 1:38:18
  It looks like this. We've got crime cod fixed again.
• 1:38:24
  Jake and Kate were working hard and getting us a couple stories
• 1:38:28
  a day. We now we now have a couple of
• 1:38:31
  other authors up there that that are filling us out also.
• 1:38:35
  Hey on crime cod if you go to crime cod for the first time
• 1:38:40
  it'll open U looking like this and there will be a little OU
• 1:38:45
  window. I think usually there is maybe
• 1:38:47
  not but if you Scroll down. Oh there it is.
• 1:38:50
  You can subscribe to the old newsletter.
• 1:38:53
  You can join about 3000 other people to subscribe to that
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  newsletter. Gee, I wish you would.
• 1:38:59
  And I, I try to send that out on Tuesdays, though.
• 1:39:02
  My system was broken. I, I, I, I've had gremlins, man.
• 1:39:06
  So it went out today, but it'll come out on Tuesday again.
• 1:39:10
  And then don't forget to join us on Facebook if that is your
• 1:39:13
  thing. In the fish tank.
• 1:39:15
  Me and about 6300 of my closest friends, we hang out and we talk
• 1:39:19
  about true crime with that guys. I bid you.
• 1:39:22
  I do. Thank you very much for being
• 1:39:23
  here. See you tomorrow same time,
• 1:39:27
  right here at the same place and until then, please take care of
• 1:39:31
  yourselves. Bye bye.
• 1:39:33
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