Latest / Dear Son, / Why a Father's Mental Health Matters | Ep 196 | The Dear Son, Show

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Why a Father's Mental Health Matters | Ep 196 | The Dear Son, Show · Dear Son,

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you parenting now for, the 12 and the 22-year-old, are you even thinking about that?
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.
0:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be honest, I don't think- I'm right now, I'm thinking about-
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, can we get to bed on time?
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you eat?
0:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you don't need to be changed.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think from what I know working with individuals and everybody's different.
0:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But some things as far as what fathers do and provide.
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard from many people they didn't really catch it or understand it until they were in their 20s.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: like mid-20s.
0:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's just something that I'm kind of preparing for that, you know, having to have some routine or some, okay, say no to this.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm encouraging you to try different things because I want you to develop your own personality.
0:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You may really hate me for it now, but as you become older, you'll be glad that I instill that confidence in you.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: All right guys, let's get it welcome to the Dead Sun Show.
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We have meaningful conversations about life through the lens of Fatherhood.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It is four fathers, no one's with fathers, and the fatherless, and nobody's left out.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the conversations I want my sons to access as they grow through life in the manhoods and no topics are off limits.
1:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your only host today, and I have to apologize straight out the gate.
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Pleas F2, man, I promise you they do.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: This brother flew all the way, got on a plane.
1:37
[SPEAKER_01]: A whole plane flew the whole distance to Dallas, sat down and recorded in the studio, and the footage was nowhere to be.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Access.
1:49
[SPEAKER_01]: The audio I do have, the audio will come out.
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Jason Phillips, thank you again.
1:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I apologize publicly.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you running this bag my brother, how are you?
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good deal man.
2:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It happens.
2:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's certainly dead, it's certainly dead.
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you feeling, man?
2:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Not feeling the good, I feel the good.
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: How about yourself?
2:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I laid the pause before I answered that.
2:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure I answer honestly.
2:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm having a great day.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The week has some challenges, but that residue fell on quickly.
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm having a good day, man.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Just had a good conversation before this was so, it's chilling late.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm in a groove of potting today, man.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm in a groove of potting, man.
2:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But how are you?
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to ask me twice because we'll get into it, but you, you address people's feelings for a living.
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know how often you talk about how you're really feeling or do you even have space to do that?
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, D.I.Freshate, you're asking that, man.
2:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a, today's Friday.
2:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a long week.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking forward to some downtime next week.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be, you know, having some relaxation.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm looking forward to that.
3:06
[SPEAKER_01]: As though, man, I'll tell people who you are, what you do.
3:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'll Dr. Jason Phillips.
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a licensed therapist, confidence coach.
3:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Been in the field for close to 20 years now.
3:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Work with a lot of high achievers, high performers on managing anxiety, stress, burnout, and all the things that come with you being yourself.
3:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to dip into my petty just a little bit.
3:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, your dissertation is out there.
3:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's out to it will be published in 30 days or so.
3:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm, I'm, I'm, I just had you a little bit of petty out, man.
3:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know, I know that that was funny too.
3:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say the timing of that.
3:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It was funny because I graduated right.
3:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I graduated months ago, but I walked right when all that stuff came out and yeah, now every therapist is showing this is my degree.
3:57
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my picture.
3:59
[SPEAKER_00]: This is to prove all of that.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I and you said it.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe man.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I go these days.
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, men's mental health month.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I give it credit because it's on the calendar not that it should be limited to any specific window of time and what, what.
4:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Does this month typically feel any different for you?
4:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it more of the same?
4:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see an influx?
4:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what happens during this month for you?
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean, started off with May, meant to help month.
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: That was really busy for me, working with individuals, but more so with the corporations, a lot of people are bringing me in to work with their teams and their leaders.
4:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same with this month, being a man's mental health month, I don't think as men, we think about it.
4:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think sometimes the, you know, the bigger corporations, they say, hey, can you talk to our man or our people who support our man?
4:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm seeing an influx of more presentations around man's health, managing, you know, man's mental health, what that looks like.
5:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And the corporate space.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you find that any of your corporate dealings lead to personal or or anybody reaching out to deal directly or taking it more seriously?
5:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like, how does that translate?
5:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I did a presentation a few weeks ago and after words we were talking about stress and burnout, but afterwards, two men came up and approached me.
5:36
[SPEAKER_00]: They said, Hey, now I'm dealing with, I think somebody was dealing with cancer, dealing with other relationship things.
5:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think just having that space to talk about it, let them know, oh, okay, y'all really do care and there are people going through things.
5:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me reach out.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Do
5:57
[SPEAKER_00]: As far as, like, speaking or one-on-one, do.
6:02
[SPEAKER_00]: At this stage of my career, I enjoy a mix.
6:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when I first started out, I was doing heavy individual counseling, group counseling.
6:11
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do like talking to the larger groups because these are people that would never seek out support.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it just kind of less than no.
6:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I do matter.
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to take care of myself.
6:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Work is not the only thing that's important and to be honest to the issue is a change of pace.
6:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You're a father, correct?
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my daughter should be too in September, believe it or not.
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I believe, I remember that part of the conversation about my granddaughter will be too in August.
6:47
[SPEAKER_01]: What is, like, was some, I don't want to say game because game kind of does it to disservice, but as a father and a professional,
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: What have been the cues for you to slow down and take care of you?
7:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, hurt my back, running with my daughter in the park.
7:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you know, trick that honestly, like, okay, I'm not as surprised I thought I was.
7:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, when somebody asked me a, how are you doing?
7:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You, you good, and they asked like a couple times.
7:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, I must not be doing as good as I think I am.
7:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So just thinking that you can just keep taking care of other people, you know, keep pouring into your family like you actually need, you need people around you that will hold you accountable and say, hey, how are you doing?
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Just like how you did earlier, you slowed down the combo to make sure I really addressed that.
7:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I noticed them myself and then when other people ask like, hey, are you good?
7:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, I'm a, I may need to chill.
7:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you find that either you or your colleagues, people in this profession, speed pass their challenges because they're so accustomed to being or leading others to the answers or to revelations?
8:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, especially in the beginning of the career, you don't even think about what I had going on early on.
8:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the first 10 years, it was really okay.
8:23
[SPEAKER_00]: How many people am I seeing?
8:24
[SPEAKER_00]: How many people in my helping, what do they need?
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't until I had major losses in my life.
8:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like on my grandmother died, then less than two years after that, my mother died.
8:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, okay, and I have losses in my marriage.
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I gotta slow down and really,
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Take care of me like the work the work is going to be there So Mother's Day is last was last one father's day is this month and
8:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always, as a late, it's been more of a reflected period for me because as much of a celebration as it is for me, those like yourself, that it looks different when they don't have a parent to celebrate.
9:12
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you, or how are you, how do you deal with the loss when it's highlighted?
9:19
[SPEAKER_01]: for everybody else, like these couple of months that we're having right now.
9:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like a mix, you know, those days because I have my wife who is the mother of my daughter.
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm honoring and celebrating her, but then at the same time I'm missing my mom and wishing that my mom and grandmother were here.
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like I'm in two different spaces that day.
9:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm honoring my wife of course, but then I'm also missing my mom and wishing she was here.
9:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think being more transparent about it, some of my friends, they've lost their mom's two and I don't wish that on anybody, but it does help tremendously when we can say, hey man, how are you doing today?
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know what this is for you because it's the same for me.
10:07
[SPEAKER_00]: In Mother's Day, it's a big holiday, you know, it's like a national, I mean, Father's Day is a good two, but you know, Mother's Day, the world kind of stops on Mother's Day.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the text is actually small on the calendar for all this day and it is what does it I don't have I don't have proof of every calendar Look like that, but I just seen a couple of men what what we'll get you into into the space
10:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you feel the need to help folks?
10:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I always was wondrous since I was younger.
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why do people do what they do?
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, my family, some of them have struggled with addiction.
10:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had family who's been really successful.
10:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen people who are successful and then those who are not.
10:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was always really curious from the psychological standpoint.
10:53
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you have, you know, four siblings in the same house?
10:57
[SPEAKER_00]: two of them excel tremendously and two of them struggle chronically like what's what's going on there.
11:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So just learning how we think is humans that intrigued me, learning what motivates people, how people can stay consistent, you know, how people don't ask for help.
11:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the thing, the nature of our nurture that always intrigued me and the field of psychology and the social
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of follow the hood and pack any of that.
11:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
11:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me know that, yeah, you can, you can be curious about everybody else.
11:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you curious about your own family and making sure that charity starts at home before you start giving, giving, giving, giving because people, if you say yes, they'll just give you more work, more things to do.
11:48
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll ask more of you and then you look up and the things that you say are
11:56
[SPEAKER_00]: is that reflected in your life?
11:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that reflected in your calendar?
12:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you squeezing in family or are you prioritizing family?
12:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had to take a step back.
12:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So like my daughter was born, I was halfway through my doctor program.
12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember one of my friends said, hey, do you want to pause?
12:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this is going to be a lot, you know, you're working, you're traveling, you're speaking, you're working, you're about to finish your degree.
12:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you need to take a year off?
12:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no, it was a quick, it was a quick no.
12:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But looking back, I'm glad I said no, because it's my daughter's older.
12:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's much more important for me.
12:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I didn't to be involved in those first six months,
12:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But I had to make conscious decision, okay, I'm gonna get this done.
12:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But then after that, I'm all in with the family.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I was one of those guys at a time, during my corporate run, especially the last few years of it where it's almost dismissive to say it wasn't intentional to prioritize career over family.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But in talking to me and do you find any comment themes
13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: make those choices.
13:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, man, we don't.
13:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was talking to somebody just yesterday and they said, they just started to get back to themselves.
13:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They're they're the child is almost five, six years old.
13:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought, wow.
13:26
[SPEAKER_00]: because we put so much into other people, whether it be, you know, your partner, your kids, you really become, I think even before kids we're at the bottom of the list, like taking care of ourselves, but then after kids, you really don't think about what you need because you're so focused on, you know, being that provider.
13:47
[SPEAKER_00]: When I got married, my grandmother told me because my father was deceased, my grandfather deceased, she said,
13:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you know, you have to be the three things, the provider, the protector, and the teacher.
14:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And in no way, you know, was it saying, hey, make sure you take care of you.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: That was, I guess it was a given.
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm always thinking about again, being a provider, protector, and teacher leader, but not necessarily thinking about what I need.
14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: What, when did it click for you?
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: When I started really becoming a therapist and seeking out supervision, making sure that I'm going to point with what I'm doing, and my mentor is saying, hey, Jay, you, you can't be all things to all people.
14:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hadn't heard it like that before.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: There, there it be as one of those professions where I always wonder.
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Does the therapist get more out of the therapy sessions, then those that they're having conversations with?
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And how do you manage that little man because even, and I'm not suggest I am not, I don't have a doctorial by any stretch.
15:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any licensivers, I have been in nobody's school for this.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But even having these conversations, man, like a friend of mine from high school, maybe 30 episodes then,
15:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you always consider in with other men on life and not that the podcast itself is burning someone, but the top was getting heavy and I, it wasn't even in front of mine to think that I'm not that people are unloading on me, but the conversations, like I carry them, like how how how do you do it?
15:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think too, I'm going to say this before I answer that, it's not just the conversation that we have right here, but then it's the conversation before or after, you know, that can get even deeper.
15:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, realize in that, like, especially when I started to do trauma work and here in intense stories and becoming better at my craft.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So that means when you get better, get your more sought out, and I'm like, okay, way, I need to really think about, what do I have going on today?
16:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I have the capacity for this, you know, clients as much as we love our work?
16:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to manage, okay, can I handle another person?
16:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I handle somebody else who has complex PTSD, or who's navigating a divorce and also substance use?
16:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I have the capacity for that and being able to say no, one of my colleagues, I remember she stood up at a conference.
16:34
[SPEAKER_00]: This was, um, Taraji Henson's conference years ago.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: She said, it's okay for y'all to not take every client.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: she was ordered to me and I really appreciated her saying that publicly because when you're entrepreneur, you know, you eat what you kill or however that saying goes.
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But you still have to be mindful like, okay, do I really have capacity for this because I don't want to show up for you and I'm breaking down inside and I'm not getting the support because people can feel it like when you're not really on your A game, when you're distracted, they're bringing up topics and you're thinking, oh, is this me starting to, you know, hit home for you, that's the indicator that I need to do my own work and the better I do a supporting myself.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: the better I show up for my clients.
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still a win when I'm taking care of me.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel guilty about it, especially now now.
17:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that work capacity man came up in a conversation some months ago with it dawned on me that I don't at the time of that conversation, I wasn't even aware of how to measure capacity.
17:48
[SPEAKER_01]: because it all seemed like pass fail, either you do everything, or if you miss something, you're doing nothing.
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been an end doing.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Some days I still struggle with it, but what is what is assessing capacity as simply and maybe I'm overthinking it, and maybe that's my problem.
18:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But like what is assessing capacity?
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: as a man, even look like.
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in first starts with looking at what are you trying to accomplish in this season?
18:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So you said something on the first part that I remember, you said, what did you say, what needs me gets me?
18:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I saw a left from somebody else.
18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a guy that came on that summarized what I had been feeling for years as a father, because I don't believe in balance.
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I get when people say it, but sometimes I'm in a literal sense,
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We think about a scale to equally weighted things on either side, puts it in balance and that regard.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that that may be a very narrow view of it.
18:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But he said, yeah, when he's against me, I like, yes, so like when I think about my capacity, I think about when I'm reaching out to somebody or somebody's reaching out to me.
19:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And if there's a feeling like of dread, I'm probably too stretched.
19:05
[SPEAKER_00]: If I don't want to respond to this, or I'm already thinking, ah, you know, that probably means we're not a good fit.
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Not because I can't help you, or you can't be helping me, but I may be already stretched too thin.
19:21
[SPEAKER_00]: and that's okay, I can say no, like saying no, I don't have to feel guilty about that because when I say yes, I wanna have the energy.
19:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want me to say yes and then I'm yawning.
19:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm dragging.
19:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm barely showing up.
19:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's what my colleague will say.
19:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a raggedy, yes.
19:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, you don't deserve that.
19:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't wanna have that reputation.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still in that when the rain, I don't have some raggedy, yes, it's in my house.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They still remain nameless, but this is been some some raggedy, yes, it's man.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I'm stuck on what you first say when when when when you hear a thing, when you get a request and your body naturally goes into that reaction.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, man, it just feels like that feels or has felt weak to me.
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Like tough to with you, get through it.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And because you do it so much, it almost feels like that deep side is the release to allow you to do it when it really sounds like it's an indication of, man, to allow it.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Sit down.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, nobody's going to tell you AD.
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Take a break from the pie.
20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's going to tell you you at 300 episodes.
20:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Take a, take a two week off for two months.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's going to say that.
20:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to protect your own sanity and be able to say, okay, we're going to take a time out because when you don't you make mistakes.
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't have the energy.
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, Mr. No fun.
20:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in the right.
20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I got you.
20:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we have to monitor that and I've learned, especially in my career now, when I say yes to the things are really enjoy.
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel bad about having to, you know, get dressed, get a haircut, show up, block off time.
21:16
[SPEAKER_00]: All that stuff I'm looking forward to.
21:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it kind of feeds me as opposed to draining me because I'm helping somebody else.
21:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, all of this is connected.
21:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though, you know, the last pot fail, I was still looking forward to this today.
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So his, his thing, what you just said,
21:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And my mind I was interpreting is at this corner of my life for I've earned the right to, is it really something to earn though?
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Like because that's the thing too, where not necessarily I'll sleep when I'm dead, but there's this fictitious level of achievement that you have to get before you, these taking care of your things, these seemingly weak things are acceptable.
22:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So I look at it.
22:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can see maybe you can behind me.
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I got Kobe in Iverson on the wall.
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big AI fan.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also Kobe fan, but we know Kobe played in a lot of work.
22:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And he didn't have that saying like he didn't take no days off, that mentality, the mama mentality, it helped him be extremely great.
22:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, did it cost them some things at times?
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think in the beginning of your career, or whatever you're doing, you have to put in tons of work.
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was, you know, I was having two jobs.
22:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I was picking up clients here and there in the beginning because I needed to really home my skill.
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't, I didn't feel like I could say,
22:43
[SPEAKER_00]: know whether and also I didn't want to say no at that time.
22:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted all the reps.
22:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to learn as much as I could, but at this stage in my career, I'm very strategic about what I say yes to.
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's important when determining individually with that acceptable cost is because in the moment you don't necessarily see it and then I say we make excuses for
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: like we have something to show because of this and we try to use it as a a here's why and you know say and in my mind what I struggle with with me is yet all led to something but when it comes to my kids you're dead not like that there's no the reason almost doesn't matter in my mind of course when they get older and you look back
23:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, because the stress is there going through with me.
23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going through as an adult.
23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand we're happy with my father but I I don't I don't know that there's a good way to actually Understand the tradeoff in real time or if I Know I didn't slow down long enough to even want to understand it because it probably would have changed
24:05
[SPEAKER_01]: my grind, the trajectory, or what I thought it took to actually make it.
24:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you really don't.
24:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Something you don't learn until you get a certain age or at a certain point.
24:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, like my grandmother was a big.
24:21
[SPEAKER_00]: influence in my life.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: She had a strong work ethic.
24:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I derived that from her.
24:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I can see, you know, she was like, hey, before I have my doctor, she kept saying, get your doctor, get your I'm like, am I mine?
24:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you get your doctor.
24:35
[SPEAKER_00]: This is, I mean, like, that's another, I already got my master.
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: This is more work you put in on me.
24:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to open more doors and I can see now, of course, why it's so important to do these things and why it's so important to have a strong work ethic, but you don't get to that point and after you put in all those those hours and that work ethic has to be there.
24:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So some things you have to just trust and and wait for the outcome.
25:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't play in everything accordingly, but you have to put in the work.
25:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to do that doesn't know where around that.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's all subjective.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think when these conversations, especially in the public arena have been people are responding, not necessarily to you, but from their version of what the experience about a thing that sounded similar or triggered something that they've gone through,
25:41
[SPEAKER_01]: to hit a perspective of dads with young children.
25:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And they seem so, uh, what's the right word?
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Not, not, uh, uh, delusional about what will be, but it's one of those things that you don't know your two y'all is perfect.
26:01
[SPEAKER_01]: 12 looks different.
26:03
[SPEAKER_01]: 22 looks different.
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what would it, what do you parenting now for the 12 and the 22 year old or are you even thinking about that?
26:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'll be honest, I don't think, I'm right now, I'm thinking about, okay, can we get to bed on time?
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you eat, make sure you don't need to be changed?
26:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I think from what I know working with individuals and everybody's different, but some things as far as what fathers do and provide, I've heard from many people they didn't really catch it or understand it until they were in their 20s.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: like mid-20s.
26:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's just something that I'm kind of preparing for that, you know, having to have some routine or some, okay, say no to this.
26:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm encouraging you to try different things because I want you to develop your own personality.
26:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You may really hate me for it now, but as you become older, you'll be glad that I instill that confidence in you.
27:07
[SPEAKER_01]: man, that was another conversation that got a lot of traction on a piece of a conversation was the difficult things that fathers do, right?
27:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a, a myriad of responses of your hateful, you know, love your children, your two stir and they just wanted, you know, it like all of these things, again, people responded from their pain points,
27:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you have the data of it working, it's hard to deviate from it, right?
27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not confused about how my father treated me and how I felt about that at that time.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Now having an appreciation for it.
27:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I'm not giving, he's, that's not giving him a pass.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That's me only now understanding because I have a son that was the age that I was, I have, like, several kids.
28:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, um, as you're collecting data, having the conversation that you have in, how much of any of it impacts how you show up in your household.
28:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think about my own relationship with my father and mother and so growing up my father he was around like in the same house to we about six maybe like five or six and because he was home or And we had a lot of fun with him.
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if we were to you to ask me and my sister like who is the best parent or the favorite parent who would have been my father hands down
28:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But as I, you know, I'm a dot now, I'm like, oh, wait.
28:41
[SPEAKER_00]: But mine was the one who was consistent, who provided structure, who made sure we got to school.
28:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, back then, she probably felt like they my kids are choosing him.
28:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the one who's making all this stuff happen.
28:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're young.
28:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't, we can't see all of that.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So it let's me know that again, you have to trust yourself and not be misled by just trying
29:08
[SPEAKER_00]: and be friend them but do was necessary for them because they're going to grow up and they're going to have their own lives and they'll be able to look back on these memories and put two or two together.
29:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't just think about, I'm not just thinking about what my daughters thinking are feeling right now.
29:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking about, okay, I'm setting you up to live a life when I'm not here anymore.
29:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So that that that's kind of a that's where I was going with the question about the 12 and the 22 Not necessarily thinking that she's 12 or 22 will what things are front of mind and how you raise her That you'll be you'll be grateful at the 12 and 22 that you will conscious of these things at at too That's that's kind of where I was going Um, what kind of dad are you?
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say I'm probably the the chill dad but also fun like me my daughter we spend a lot of time at the park at the stores.
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: She loves bubble so I don't bother about 10 different bubble guns and you know I do spoiler I'm not gonna lie you know she gets what she wants but also if she if she fusses I'm not losing a lot of sleep over it I know she's that's just her
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this, this one's done us early, but it's only, it's only so much.
30:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I didn't have to even say that because different discipline looks different.
30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people automatically go to a, a thought of a physical or a type of punishment, but this one could just be like guidelines and go out rails that you implement to make sure that they're getting it age appropriate.
30:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I, I, I, I, I, I, to that, do, I think, you know, make sure that I'm managing
30:55
[SPEAKER_00]: managing my physical health, managing my mental health, that impacts how I show up as a dad too, because if I'm waking up and I'm already stressed about the day or what's not happening with me, I can't be the best parent to my daughter.
31:11
[SPEAKER_00]: She's gonna feel all of the things that I'm feeling and if I'm anxious, if I'm tense, she's gonna feel that I'm not gonna be able to be the person I want her to see.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's one of the thoughts that I had
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: giving your family a hundred percent of a 70% version of you was still the disservice.
31:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So not being all you need to be given all you have is noble, but if you need more, the moral will also help them.
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: How does it, how does it, how does it therapist,
31:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Man is their mental health.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Going at therapy.
31:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it, say more about that.
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm always curious about that.
31:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think, I mean, that's one of many things.
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think at the top of the list, it's just going to therapy because you have somebody objective who doesn't know you, who's not judging you.
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead of me being the listener and trying to help somebody else strategize how they can help themselves, I now have somebody else who's there for me.
32:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And it starts with asking for help.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: How does that really say now I'm curious about the mechanics because it's because you're so well-versed?
32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: How easy is it for you to actually be free in a session and not try to out-therapise the therapists I know I'm going crazy with.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why are you doing that first?
32:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes, like my neighbor, he used to work in like construction to something.
33:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So when he hires people now, he's like, yeah, I would have done this like that.
33:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm gonna let him do it, but I would have, so I get what you're saying, but I think see the thing about with therapy, it's still, you know, my degrees and licensure, that matters, but still,
33:20
[SPEAKER_00]: the rapport that I have with whom ever I'm talking to.
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've had therapists who have been in the field for 30, 40 years be my therapist and then I've had some who've been less than three or four years in it and I've had a better connection with them.
33:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not looking at them like judging their skills and I mean of course I'm going to think like, okay, I see what you did there, you know.
33:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm really trying to make sure I get what I need because I'm not there to supervise them.
33:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm there for me.
33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to people to hear from somebody in the space because people outside of the space think that they understand the space, right?
34:01
[SPEAKER_01]: The non-professional stink that they can talk themselves through a thing that they don't need it because they have whatever tools they go.
34:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll say this.
34:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one reason why, I think this just me personally, I'm big on asking for help and allowing people to help.
34:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So two different things.
34:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, right, I'm asked and I'm going to allow.
34:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I want to be as great as I can be in all areas.
34:29
[SPEAKER_00]: you can't see everything.
34:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to one of my mentors about a situation not too long going.
34:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, I didn't even think about that.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, you won't because you're in it.
34:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, okay, that's true.
34:43
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
34:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've had a personal trainer before.
34:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know how to work out.
34:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Been working out since I was like 12, 13.
34:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know when I have somebody
34:54
[SPEAKER_00]: and looking at, okay, do it like this or try this, switch it up, you just get further and I think when people think that they can do everything on their own, they don't ask for help, they end up bumping their heads or spinning their wheels, standing in the same position, not because they're not talented enough, but because they're so talented, they think they can just get to the next
35:23
[SPEAKER_00]: What's on you struggling with right now?
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a man.
35:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Balancing all the things.
35:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So my daughter will be too, I've been doing more speaking.
35:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I think last month was really, really busy.
35:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm also trying to prioritize, well, I don't have my doctor anymore.
35:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad that's done with right now, but still, it's still balancing career and family.
35:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You put a lot into your career.
35:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Family seems to lack if you put a lot into your family.
35:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Career seems to lack.
35:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's always a toss up.
36:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a picture with success is for me?
36:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure that I don't have regrets.
36:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So whether that be, you know, and that necessarily like a monetary amount, but make sure that when I go to sleep at night, I'm thinking, okay, yeah, Jason, you did everything you were supposed to do.
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that we've done a this and I don't even know who the week is?
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think a disservice has been done to the value of therapy?
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: as far as the way we think about therapy.
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it feels more catch-freezy than actual work and help.
36:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I think right now, especially post-COVID, it's definitely more catch-y.
36:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's become popular.
36:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm seeing more younger people take advantage of it.
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes corporations are kind of dangling it like, hey, we offer free therapy, you can work with us.
37:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Not really caring if you use it or not.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think just in our, you know, as a man, because we don't know what therapy looks like.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We think that all have to be struggling bad before I go seek help.
37:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I have something that's like wrong with me.
37:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to be on the the break of losing it all.
37:24
[SPEAKER_00]: When in actuality, the best time to seek help is when things are going smooth.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like therapy can also help you flourish.
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't just help you function.
37:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think knowing the difference between the two, it will help us a lot.
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We get further.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a real important distinction, like how should someone seeking therapy have a game plan or have any expectation of what they want to get out of it?
38:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you do have expectations, that's great because you can communicate that to your therapist and they can say, okay, yes, I can help you with this or I know I can't.
38:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you will feel like your problem is being solved or addressed, but I think if you don't know what you want, that's probably even more of a reason to go seek out therapy because you can help gain the clarity because you're probably sitting at the house confused,
38:32
[SPEAKER_00]: the car and the house, but I'm still feeling empty inside or why am I in a family that seems to be a great family, but I'm thinking about leaving, like what's wrong there?
38:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think when you have somebody who can help you process those things, that will be a good reason to go to therapy.
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I always will say prevention is better than treatment.
38:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't wait
39:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've experienced that the emptiness of but she's in the thing that I thought was going to feel a lot different.
39:15
[SPEAKER_01]: As you're having these conversations, are there common themes?
39:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there common schedules of activity that happen over time?
39:32
[SPEAKER_01]: here and that's so much is really not about the money not meaning what you thought it meant but it's how you how something else was framed that you passed on to like what did what you said.
39:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I usually see it started earlier with somebody telling you this is what success looks like.
39:49
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're great in this area, if you're great in this skill, you're going to have a great life.
39:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So people become, you know, experts in their field or they become really good at taking care of other people because that's what they were told to do.
40:03
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't have the voices figure out, what do you want?
40:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Like sometimes people, you know, they list to their parents.
40:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And they say, hey, my mom told me, this is what I should do.
40:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I always wanted to do this, but they told me to do that.
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And now, hey, I think I'm too old to pivot, because I really don't like what I do every day.
40:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel accomplished.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I make it a great salary.
40:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So I start with people not knowing themselves, not knowing how to take the time out to find themselves and giving themselves space to do that.
40:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why, you know, I credited my grandmother for a work ethic, but I also were credited my mother and father for just instilling in me, hey, do what you want.
40:49
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to be a professor do that, if you want to be a comedian do that, if you want to be a painter, but do it well, but make sure you're doing something that you want to do.
41:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And because when I see people don't do that, they feel really, ah, what's the, they feel
41:10
[SPEAKER_00]: in this frame of their life and not fulfilled.
41:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They're chasing something, but they don't know what that something is.
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Come and say, she came out recently on an episode about parent pleasing.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't my experience with that was my father made a recommendation that what I should major in when I went to school.
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: and it was logical.
41:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I did well in math and science, he suggested something that required a strength in math and science.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't really a conversation about what I wanted to do or what I wanted to be.
41:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't even know if I had to wear with all the articulated because I last on with his recommendation was, right?
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I got out of engineering within the first two years.
42:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like I'd have been a miserable engineer without a successful end of the night.
42:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But having conversations with, like again, man on this platform, it's like, I didn't realize how much of a theme that could be with me and not that not suggesting weak verse strong between the sexes, but I just never, in the end of across my mind that a man with struggle so much could be something that he didn't want to be because of a parent.
42:34
[SPEAKER_01]: wanted them to do that in front of us.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes it's honest, like I was talking to a pastor and his dad was a pastor.
42:41
[SPEAKER_01]: His dad thought the church was going to be handed down to him, right?
42:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And he had to have that conversation and he was just on my head shrunk with him.
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had never, because I've never experienced it, I know what it is to not want to disappoint my parents.
42:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's never been to the extent that I'll be something they wanted me to be that I really didn't want to be at this at the expense of or for the sake of them being happy.
43:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think a lot of people have had the opposite where they do.
43:12
[SPEAKER_00]: They end up doing exactly what their parents said.
43:15
[SPEAKER_00]: They would want them to do.
43:17
[SPEAKER_00]: They regret it long term.
43:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they still don't have the confidence to do what they want to do.
43:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I never forget I overheard two nurses I worked with in a in a break room talking and they were extremely one of them.
43:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They both were burned out, but then they said, well, what are we going to do?
43:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did this old and I felt bad for them because they really felt like the life was done and they could make a different choice.
43:45
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think you'll manage that with your daughter or future children as you have them in terms of
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: like discovering what's best for them, right?
44:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Because another thing I would say was that, and I'm not taking credit for this, but parents, parent, their children for a generation, their parents have never experienced.
44:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So you give them all the what you've had to date, and sometimes that looks like you believe it's gonna work.
44:20
[SPEAKER_01]: in the future, like what are some things that you're being caught to serve in terms of guard rails and that narrowing in who your children can be.
44:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there's going to be where I want them to, I want my daughter to think outside the box.
44:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be creative.
44:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Have your unique personality be open to doing different things if you want to.
44:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But first give that one thing a real good try.
44:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like before you just switch,
44:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you switching because it's tough or are you switching because you're genuinely don't have an interest in it because I think that's two different things You know, and I you know when I first started doing videos and things Being so nervous, you know, one time I didn't blink on a whole video Emma My homeboys and agma with like they cloned you or something and I'm like, no, you know
45:14
[SPEAKER_00]: but I didn't pivot, so I think just having those experiences to say, yeah, things can be tough, but that doesn't mean you have to quit.
45:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you really don't like something, go ahead and pivot, but make sure you give it a real try first.
45:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Which are words of encouragement, to men, men in general, men that look like us,
45:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Man that are doing their level best.
45:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And, uh...
45:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But Josh, just don't seem to be connected.
45:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if that's you, if you're feeling like, hey, life is really beating me down right now.
46:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Acknowledge it, take accountability.
46:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we don't want to start avoiding an act and like everything is good.
46:08
[SPEAKER_00]: When you know it's not good.
46:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say accountability because I want you to say, how can you show up differently?
46:15
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like?
46:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything is not in everybody else's control.
46:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And then lastly, you want to take action.
46:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Life is 90% preparation, 10% execution.
46:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So how are you preparing for the life that you want?
46:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you need help with that, don't be afraid to ask for help and get support.
46:40
[SPEAKER_00]: If people want help from you, how can they find it?
46:43
[SPEAKER_00]: They can email me info at JasonLPhilips.com.
46:49
[SPEAKER_00]: They can visit my website, JasonLPhilips.com, or shoot me a message on social media.
46:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Dr. JasonPhilips.
46:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What else you got going on now?
46:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned the videos.
47:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We've had some exchanges about going to some things.
47:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what do you see your platform?
47:09
[SPEAKER_01]: making this mark on whatever that influence population is to be.
47:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be pivoting.
47:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to do more documentaries until the story from a different angle.
47:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are happy with my language, yeah, yeah, if you haven't already check out many enough to heal, it's on YouTube and there'll be more videos and films like that to come.
47:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it'll be linked down below.
47:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, brother, I appreciate the go back.
47:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping to be on the East Coast at some point this year, not that the East Coast is one thing, but you're in Charlotte, right?
47:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Charlotte, Riley, Riley, the triangle.
47:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to try out with Matt.
47:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We were working on something and you started a series that we hope we intend to land on
48:05
[SPEAKER_01]: serious topics in a different way.
48:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a documentary series that a couple episodes in.
48:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm that's where I see my existence as well.
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I do love this podcast.
48:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It started from a very pure place.
48:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm more interested in the network.
48:28
[SPEAKER_01]: creating content that changes the way that men see themselves and others.
48:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sir.
48:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So, we'll hold each other accountable, man.
48:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, not necessarily compete, because there's no reason to do that.
48:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, I like surrounded myself with people that do say stuff and do stuff.
48:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, absolutely, right?
48:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Say stuff and do stuff, right?
48:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Any clothes or merch?
48:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was great to close out on.
48:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, I don't have anything else.
48:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Gotcha, gotcha.
48:58
[SPEAKER_01]: thank me thank him because we made it happen again again go check the other audio out and probably give some more context to who Jason is but make sure you follow make sure you watch the documentary it is linked down below you haven't liked share and subscribe what exactly are you doing with your life be better not because I said so but also because I said so that's gonna do for this episode we appreciate you guys God bless your peace