Latest / Camp Classics / Basic Instinct (1992)

Transcript

Basic Instinct (1992) · Camp Classics

• 0:00
  Get away from her you bitch. Classic.
• 0:05
  He was in the Amazon cry along when she was researching spiders
• 0:09
  right before she died. No, I thought.
• 0:16
  You become a prostitute. Or a dog at it.
• 0:18
  I used to love doggy chow. I used.
• 0:22
  To love doggy chow too. I've got that Magna cum laude
• 0:25
  pussy. I'm Crystal.
• 0:28
  Yes, I'm the fuck of the century.
• 0:31
  It's. Me, baby lame.
• 0:35
  And welcome to Camp Classics, a thoughtful podcast about stupid
• 0:40
  movies. Every two weeks we're here
• 0:44
  discussing, exploring, raiding, some of the peaks and the
• 0:49
  valleys in the genre of camp in the search for the campus of
• 0:54
  Camp Classics. Oh, we've been, we've been on a
• 0:56
  journey so far, haven't we? Some of the sure.
• 0:58
  Have. Some of the places we've been to
• 1:02
  just like to mix it up every time, don't we?
• 1:04
  Different places. Well, this week we're going to
• 1:07
  San Francisco in the 90s for Basic Instinct.
• 1:12
  Yes. It's finally happening.
• 1:15
  Before we get there though, let me tell you, we've got a gay
• 1:17
  tree on where for only £4.00 a month you can get a bonus
• 1:21
  episode every month and access to our growing back catalogue of
• 1:26
  Camp Classic. And what's new on the gate
• 1:29
  Trion? Well, we've just covered
• 1:31
  Crossroads. Oh yeah, another one that maybe
• 1:34
  isn't the best 1 to get people. Well, was it a camp classic?
• 1:38
  You'll have to listen to finding anything.
• 1:40
  We're not saying anything. There's a lot of indications
• 1:43
  that it might have been Kim Cattrall, Britney Spears, Zoe
• 1:46
  Saldano. You can subscribe to The Gate
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  Trion on Patreon directly, or you can now directly subscribe
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  drive through Apple and Spotify feeds.
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  So wherever you're listening to this, you can just click
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  subscribe. It was spreading.
• 1:59
  That's right, I've been doing some admin.
• 2:02
  Yeah, you clearly have. Have you been dotting the IS and
• 2:05
  crossing the T's on everything? Absolutely.
• 2:07
  You know it. I've basically sold my soul to
• 2:10
  Apple, but I'm plugged in. Our whole world is sitting there
• 2:15
  on a computer. It's in the computer.
• 2:17
  Where do you do we know where any of our listeners are?
• 2:20
  Like, do we have any listeners and any like, bizarre parts of
• 2:24
  the world to us? That's so funny that you said
• 2:26
  that because I was just about to say welcome to our newest
• 2:29
  Gatreon member Jacob and Jacob messaged us on the Instagram and
• 2:34
  said I am loving the podcast. I had to get me a Gatreon as I
• 2:38
  binged all of the standard episodes in two days, which wow,
• 2:43
  two days. That's a lot of us in your ear.
• 2:45
  The limit does not exist. Yeah, OK.
• 2:48
  Jacob, are you OK, Hun? But he says, I was trying to
• 2:50
  think of the films from my side of the world, Australia slash
• 2:53
  New Zealand, that might be worth you covering.
• 2:55
  Obviously you've got Priscilla and Muriel's wedding, but has
• 2:57
  anyone suggested Strictly Ballroom?
• 2:59
  I'll tell you what I want. I want Ken Railings to walk in
• 3:02
  here right now. And, say, Pam Shorts.
• 3:04
  Broken both her legs and I want to dance with you.
• 3:08
  That's a good shout. It is a good shout.
• 3:10
  I love strictly ballroom. It's a really good film.
• 3:14
  It's it's fab. I'm trying to think if there are
• 3:17
  any like other films from Australia that I, well, I'm a
• 3:21
  big fan. It's not technically an
• 3:22
  Australian film, but I like Kylie and Street Fighter.
• 3:25
  Just putting that out there. That's fun.
• 3:28
  I haven't seen that since I was a kid.
• 3:30
  It's not very good. Yeah, then.
• 3:32
  But hi, Jacob, welcome. Yeah, thank you, Jacob.
• 3:36
  Did I fail as a mother? And Speaking of the Gayatrion,
• 3:39
  this week we're covering Basic Instinct and next week we're
• 3:43
  uncrossing our legs again because we're covering Basic
• 3:47
  Instinct 2. No, they didn't think it could
• 3:50
  be done. Or as I like to call it, Basic
• 3:53
  Instinct 2 Full Throttle. Yeah, Basic Instinct.
• 3:56
  Where the fuck can I watch this? Because no one wants to stream
• 4:00
  it anywhere there is a link and we will put it on the link if
• 4:03
  people. Want to that's actually that's
• 4:05
  actually smart. We can put the the link to this
• 4:08
  the one streaming link. It's Dailymotion.
• 4:12
  If you're not in a position to subscribe to the gay Tron help.
• 4:15
  Me, I'm poor. What you can do for free right
• 4:17
  now is go give us a five star rating, whatever platform you're
• 4:20
  listening on, and you can tell some friends that you like the
• 4:23
  show. That would be really helpful.
• 4:25
  I mean, it's the least you, it's literally the least you could do
• 4:28
  people so. Yeah, we're watching terrible
• 4:31
  movies for your benefit. You.
• 4:33
  The least you could do is just spread the news.
• 4:35
  What movie should we cover next? Well, follow us on Instagram at
• 4:38
  Camp Classics Podcast and message us with your
• 4:41
  suggestions. We liked Jacob's suggestions.
• 4:43
  Let's see if you, someone else can give us some good ones.
• 4:45
  Yeah, totally, totally. I want to watch something I've
• 4:48
  never heard of. That would be the dream.
• 4:50
  Well, that's why I was excited to do Crossroads, because it's
• 4:53
  like a well known movie that I had never seen.
• 4:55
  It's hard. It's hard to find those.
• 4:57
  Sometimes, actually, there's a reason why he's not heard.
• 5:00
  Not saying it's a spoiler alert, though.
• 5:02
  It might be a really good movie. Well baby, before we go any
• 5:06
  further, what makes a camp classic?
• 5:09
  Well, it's a great question that it's so good.
• 5:12
  In fact, you ask it every time we do this so and it's still.
• 5:15
  Still not satisfied with your answers.
• 5:17
  So still not fucking landing with you, is it?
• 5:20
  Well, a camp classic is something that should unlock
• 5:22
  queer joy. We want something that's going
• 5:24
  to get us feeling all the good feels.
• 5:27
  It needs to have an ongoing legacy.
• 5:29
  Ideally it would be stupid. It should inform queer pop
• 5:33
  culture and have an anti mainstream underground flop vibe
• 5:36
  to it. And you know what it's like as
• 5:39
  I'm taking the piss out of you for it not landing.
• 5:40
  I still can't reel it off. I still have to read it verbatim
• 5:44
  from my screen. I was on You Are Good, which is
• 5:48
  like another movie's podcast. Oh, oh, oh, wait.
• 5:52
  I was doing promo, I was doing, I was doing promo, sorry.
• 5:55
  I need to come have we discussed.
• 5:58
  I didn't realise we were open. No, genuinely, I didn't realise
• 6:03
  we were. This was like an open thing.
• 6:05
  I thought this was like a monogamous podcast.
• 6:09
  Well, we should have had an explicit conversation.
• 6:13
  So who are? Who are those bitches you're
• 6:14
  talking to? Tell me.
• 6:15
  You might as well tell me now. Talk to me.
• 6:17
  Well, it's a, well, it's a well respected podcast.
• 6:21
  Oh, I bet it is, yeah. And we covered Velvet Goldmine,
• 6:26
  but we talked a lot about camp movies and they were like, so
• 6:28
  you're an expert on camp movies? What makes a camp movie?
• 6:30
  And I was like, oh fuck, I can't remember the list.
• 6:32
  I can't remember the list. But I don't know.
• 6:34
  OK, yeah. And what, what was it like?
• 6:36
  What was the chat like? It was really fun.
• 6:38
  Yeah, great. I'm really, really happy for
• 6:40
  you. Yeah.
• 6:41
  And if you're listening to this, because of that appearance, we
• 6:43
  got like, we like doubled our listenership, yeah.
• 6:45
  I bet that that wasn't anything you doubled up on, was it?
• 6:50
  So welcome, if that's the reason you're here.
• 6:53
  We're a little bits earlier than Alex and Sarah.
• 6:56
  Listen, I think we need to work through this because I that's
• 6:59
  just like a curveball and I feel like I've just been like, you
• 7:02
  know who I feel like right now? I feel like Roxy in Basic
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  Instinct. I feel like I'm watching you
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  fuck someone else, Sharon Stone. And I'm not sure I'm getting off
• 7:12
  on it anymore. Well, I'm just trying to drive
• 7:14
  you to madness so that you finally go over that Cliff and
• 7:20
  free me from this relationship. Actually I just want an excuse
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  to wear like a drapey beige something on on a deck smoking a
• 7:29
  cigarette and saying I don't give a fuck he's dead.
• 7:32
  I wasn't dating him, I was fucking him.
• 7:36
  We really need to talk more about drapery, beigeness and
• 7:38
  like kind of comfort. Like quiet luxury.
• 7:41
  Quiet luxury this movie invent quiet luxury.
• 7:45
  Well, it's not that fucking quiet if you've got a Picasso in
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  your living room, is it? But, but I was like, God, that
• 7:51
  was so much sexier to me than the white dress.
• 7:53
  Just saying. Just a little bit of cashmere on
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  the beach was very sexy to me. You heard it here 1st and then.
• 8:00
  Baby gets off on wall. But then I saw a picture of
• 8:03
  Mariah Carey on my Instagram today celebrating her birthday,
• 8:07
  and she was in a very similar ensemble, like a cashmere drapey
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  thing. And I was like, maybe this is
• 8:12
  the resurgent of the drape. Kind of skims adjacent though.
• 8:16
  Oh yeah, I guess so, yeah. But like not fitted.
• 8:19
  I don't know. Yeah, no, it's not.
• 8:20
  It's not because skims would be bodycon.
• 8:23
  Do we think Sharon Stones is is friends with the Kardashians?
• 8:26
  She must be right. No, she's way too good for that.
• 8:29
  Really, I'm OK, listeners, I'm. I think Sharon Stone.
• 8:33
  Sharon sounds like a Buddhist and is like quite highbrow.
• 8:36
  I I could see her being friends with Kim Cattrall.
• 8:40
  A fan of jazz? Yeah, I'm a kid, Pierrebo.
• 8:43
  Set a right for cable wind on Latin equals UJ sub so red.
• 8:48
  Yeah, I could see her being friends with.
• 8:52
  I feel like she's got, you know, people in her life who are like
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  teachers, meditators. Right, I'm going on her
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  Instagram now. Let's see if I can like find
• 9:01
  some of the friends that she's got.
• 9:02
  If she follows someone on Instagram, does that mean she's
• 9:05
  friends with them? Just what do we think?
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  I mean, I, I, yeah, it's at least it's at least an
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  endorsement. OK, so there's she's got 7417
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  people so I'll go through now. She's following 7000 people on
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  Instagram. She follows.
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  She follows Bimini. What?
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  Yeah, I just what? She follows Bimini.
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  Bamboo Dash, Michelle Visage, Megan Fox.
• 9:31
  This is so confusing to me. I know she's not as eyebrow as
• 9:35
  you think she is, is she? Anyone else popping up That
• 9:38
  might be I? Think we might need to do this
• 9:41
  for every episode so check who. They are.
• 9:43
  I'm now searching for Kris Jenner to see if.
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  Yeah, OK. She's she's not friends with
• 9:49
  Kris Jenner. They've had a huge fallout.
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  No. Is she following Michael
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  Douglas? That's the question.
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  She says she likes Michael Douglas.
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  And she is following him because they, they, I don't think they
• 10:02
  were fans. Anyone else?
• 10:03
  One more name throw at me and I'll put it in.
• 10:06
  How about Merrill? Do you think Merrill?
• 10:07
  Yeah, check Merrill. Check Merrill.
• 10:10
  Oh yeah, she does follow Merrill ground breaking.
• 10:12
  And what about Liza? Liza Yeah, yes, she does.
• 10:18
  And I'm going to, I'm going to do one final punch just because
• 10:20
  we've covered it on the podcast. Halle Berry.
• 10:24
  Does she? Oh my God.
• 10:25
  She does follow Catwoman. There we go.
• 10:28
  Wow, she's a queen of the people.
• 10:30
  I'm sorry. I'm still in shock that she
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  follows. But mini, I think if Sharon
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  Stone followed me on Instagram I would.
• 10:36
  I would explode into a million pieces.
• 10:39
  Who is the like? I would never stop talking about
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  it. Who is the most impressive
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  person you've had follow you on Instagram?
• 10:46
  The thing that I was probably the most excited about was
• 10:48
  probably garbage. Oh yeah, that's cool.
• 10:51
  Yeah, it is cool. Like me and me and Shirley
• 10:55
  message regularly. Oh, sorry.
• 10:58
  Let me just let me just toss my hair back.
• 11:01
  I mean it. It's not Sharon Stone, but it's
• 11:03
  my Sharon Stone. Yeah, fair.
• 11:04
  I mean, she definitely had a Sharon Stone era, didn't she?
• 11:07
  Oh my God, she that woman. Gosh, we really haven't covered
• 11:11
  anything. Well, can I just tell you my
• 11:12
  quick thing? Yeah, I think so.
• 11:14
  Brandy followed me back when I met her.
• 11:18
  She was in Chicago, and she followed me back and I took a
• 11:21
  picture and posted it, and then she followed me back and I was
• 11:23
  like, oh, shit, my icon Brandy is following me.
• 11:26
  But then because I'm mental, I sent her like a really, like,
• 11:29
  fangirlie. Oh, my God, you're so amazing,
• 11:32
  my idol, You're so brilliant, blah, blah, blah.
• 11:34
  And then yeah, unfollowed me. I could hear people getting
• 11:37
  bored with me, but I couldn't stop.
• 11:39
  She was like, that was a mistake actually.
• 11:44
  But I screenshotted the follow, so there you go.
• 11:46
  It counts, doesn't it? Wow, that's just it's just
• 11:52
  really adding to your stories of like.
• 11:54
  Another reason describe to subscribe to the gay drama is to
• 11:57
  hear about babies first experience eating a vagina.
• 12:01
  What? What did I talk about?
• 12:02
  Was that on? Yeah, it made you.
• 12:05
  Yeah, it made you Hobbit. Oh, yeah, I forget what I talked
• 12:07
  about on this. There's absolutely no needs.
• 12:09
  This is like a therapy session for me.
• 12:11
  I just want to talk talk to you about stories.
• 12:13
  And then I have to listen to it three more times in the edit.
• 12:17
  Well, the content of this film is very sexually graphic and I
• 12:21
  will be getting some salacious stories out from you today, I've
• 12:24
  decided. I'm ready.
• 12:26
  Yeah, I bet you are. Let's get into the the meat of
• 12:29
  this movie. Are we?
• 12:29
  Are we ready? Yeah, OK.
• 12:31
  Do it. Go for it.
• 12:32
  Well, we're covering Basic Instinct, directed by Paul
• 12:35
  Verhoeven, written by Joe Esterhaus.
• 12:38
  That mean we didn't. We know and love those two men
• 12:40
  from Showgirls. Of course.
• 12:42
  I think this is our first Paul Verhoeven movie.
• 12:45
  Yeah, I mean, obviously his films have been bandied around
• 12:49
  whenever we talk about certain things.
• 12:51
  Yeah, feels like a lot of pressure, frankly.
• 12:54
  Paul Verhoeven might be like my guiding light if of camp in a
• 12:58
  weird way. Your guiding light, full stop.
• 13:02
  Honestly, showgirls, total recall, RoboCop I don't.
• 13:06
  Know if I think his work has transcended to me.
• 13:09
  I'm not sure it's him that I'm the fan of, but he loves the
• 13:12
  rape scene, doesn't he? He does love the rape scene.
• 13:15
  Sorry to just. Balance that.
• 13:18
  Yeah, no, it's fair. It's going to be a tough one to
• 13:22
  talk about. There's a lot to say.
• 13:23
  There's a lot to say, but what? Well, what's your history with
• 13:26
  the movie? I can't remember ever watching
• 13:28
  this as a full movie I think. I think it was the kind of thing
• 13:32
  that maybe I would have got like a late night glimpse on TV when
• 13:35
  I was a teenager of, but I don't recall watching the entire
• 13:39
  thing. Basic Instinct Two however I
• 13:42
  have seen multiple times so when we watch this.
• 13:48
  OK, are there when? We agreed to do Basic Instinct
• 13:51
  one and two. Basically I said to Crystal I
• 13:53
  was desperate to do Basic Instinct 2 and she wanted to do
• 13:56
  Basic Instinct 1. And we sort of came to the the
• 13:59
  deal. OK, we'll do a double feature of
• 14:01
  it. But yeah, I literally was a bit
• 14:02
  eye rolly about watching the first one.
• 14:04
  Second one, I'm here for the ride.
• 14:07
  That's so wild to me. That's so.
• 14:11
  You are such a weirdo. I like, I know we'll talk about
• 14:16
  it on the gate you're on. I'm going to say it now.
• 14:18
  I still think the second one's a way better movie.
• 14:20
  There we go, I said it. No one has ever uttered those
• 14:27
  words before. I think Basic Instinct 2 is
• 14:29
  better than the first. One, I think I feel like this
• 14:31
  about multiple sequels like Grease 2 I think is a superior
• 14:36
  film. I still know what you did last
• 14:38
  summer. A Very Brady sequel.
• 14:41
  Super Super Girls. Not a sequel, but yeah.
• 14:43
  Can I tell you I've never seen any of the Know What You Did
• 14:46
  movies? Oh, really?
• 14:48
  So maybe that could be another double feature we do at some
• 14:50
  point. Yeah, only if we.
• 14:51
  Can I know and I still know. Yeah, but do it the other way
• 14:53
  round. Do Brandy in the main one.
• 14:59
  I came to this movie late, I think I saw it in the last 10
• 15:02
  years for the first time. But I freaking loved it when I
• 15:07
  watched it and I was really excited to watch it again this
• 15:10
  week. It is it is very you, so me.
• 15:13
  It's kind of like I'd imagine you'd having a similar
• 15:16
  soundtrack to your fantasy life. Just dangerous string music.
• 15:25
  Yeah, constantly. But yeah, it's kind of like I
• 15:27
  was watching it and I was just like, this is a bit of crystal,
• 15:30
  really. Yeah, it's really me.
• 15:33
  I'm so excited to talk about it, but I think you might have.
• 15:36
  A quiz. I do have a quiz because we love
• 15:39
  a quiz here at Camp Classics. Now, it's going to be quite a
• 15:42
  quick one just because, as you said, there was a lot to talk
• 15:46
  about. But starting off with our love
• 15:49
  of talking about casting for this now I want you to tell me.
• 15:53
  Michael Douglas, when this film was made, was quite the key
• 15:56
  player in Hollywood and apparently was not a big fan of
• 16:00
  Sharon Stone. And the idea of this little
• 16:01
  upshot was going to be involved in the movie.
• 16:04
  So I want you to tell me if you can identify his number one
• 16:08
  leading lady choice for this. I know people who they wanted.
• 16:15
  I don't know who his number one was, so I'm going.
• 16:17
  To who were the other people that he wanted?
• 16:19
  So they wanted I, Michelle Pfeiffer.
• 16:24
  Oh, I read that. And then she said that at the
• 16:26
  time her dad was alive or something and she didn't want to
• 16:29
  get naked. Something right?
• 16:31
  Yeah, right. Julia Roberts.
• 16:34
  Geena Davis. Whatever happened to Geena
• 16:36
  Davis? Bette Midler?
• 16:40
  No, it was Julia. It was Julia Roberts.
• 16:41
  She wanted pretty women, but I just don't know.
• 16:43
  Is that just who he wanted to shag on camera?
• 16:46
  Oh, it's. So cool.
• 16:48
  Isn't it disgusting? Everything about Michael Douglas
• 16:52
  in this movie makes me feel so. How old was he in this movie?
• 16:57
  Too old. No, he's probably younger than
• 16:59
  us like but he's disgusting. That man must have been 50.
• 17:04
  Not that there's anything wrong with being 50.
• 17:06
  Not that it's disgusting to be 50, it's just disgusting to
• 17:09
  watch a man be that much of a prick.
• 17:12
  Oh, he's such. A and be like, like have a movie
• 17:14
  be about his sexual magnetism. Well, this is actually what the
• 17:17
  the real question was. So although he wanted Julia
• 17:20
  Roberts, then when they were originally writing the script,
• 17:23
  they were actually hoping it was going to be a lesbian cop
• 17:26
  lesbian. And they had a different actor
• 17:29
  in mind, obviously, because Michael Douglas isn't a lesbian.
• 17:33
  And can you guess who it might be?
• 17:34
  He's actually linked to Michael Douglas.
• 17:37
  Catherine Zita Jones. No Kathleen Turner.
• 17:40
  Oh. I wish, I think would have been
• 17:42
  great because she'd she'd done I think body heat or something a
• 17:46
  while ago. So she was still in that femme
• 17:48
  fatale era. But yeah.
• 17:51
  Wait so would it have just been like everyone was a lesbian in
• 17:55
  the movie? Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:56
  You're a lesbian. Oh my God.
• 17:58
  And also Michael fucking Douglas had in his script, in his
• 18:02
  contract, he had a clause in his contract that his copper
• 18:06
  character wouldn't be bisexual, which is just giving me Matt
• 18:10
  Damon not is it Matt Damon in Wild Things the same.
• 18:15
  No. Matt Dillon, Matt.
• 18:16
  Dillon Yeah, These bastards, none of them are willing to go
• 18:19
  by. Gross.
• 18:21
  Yeah. Gross.
• 18:22
  Oh. Jesus Gross.
• 18:24
  I can imagine how much more camp this movie would be if it was an
• 18:27
  entirely lesbian cast. I also think they would have
• 18:29
  bungled it even more. Yeah, I think there would have
• 18:32
  been more joy, even more joy to ring from it if if that had been
• 18:35
  the case. Imagine Kathleen Turner.
• 18:39
  Trying to outdo Sharon Stone. Here.
• 18:42
  For it here for the remake. I also tried to look into other
• 18:45
  remakes and there was this one that was a RIP off.
• 18:49
  I I can't remember the country it's from, called basic sexual
• 18:52
  instinct and then a porn version called balling instinct.
• 18:58
  Balling. Yeah, as in big balls.
• 19:02
  Did you find out how old he was? Yeah, he was 48.
• 19:06
  Oh God, getting near Michael Douglas in Basic Instincts near
• 19:10
  the end of the world. Yeah, fine, as long as you don't
• 19:13
  wear like V-neck sweater over nothing in a club and.
• 19:18
  OK, question #2 now, so as we spoke.
• 19:21
  That was only question. Paul Behovan, as we know, has
• 19:26
  done some very very huge movies. He really wanted to break the
• 19:31
  mould with this movie. What was the thing he wanted it
• 19:34
  to to do? That would be the first ever
• 19:37
  film to do this. Great, greatly worded question
• 19:43
  there, isn't it? Until I'm hungover.
• 19:45
  Does the movie include it? No.
• 19:49
  Oh, A. Lesbian three-way.
• 19:54
  No, he wanted it to have an erect penis.
• 19:58
  Yeah, I see that for him. Yeah, but it just didn't work
• 20:01
  out because Michael Douglas has something in his contract saying
• 20:04
  no full frontal nudity, of course.
• 20:06
  That that would have really evened things out.
• 20:08
  At least then, you know, Sharon Stone got her bits out.
• 20:12
  Yeah, which we'll get to, I'm sure.
• 20:14
  But at least then it would have been balanced.
• 20:16
  I've always thought of Paul Verhoeven is like a very equal
• 20:19
  opportunity, like shock jock, do you know what I mean?
• 20:24
  Like, he just likes, he likes things to be full tilt and he
• 20:28
  likes nudity and he likes pushing America's buttons.
• 20:32
  I don't think of him as like an especially misogynist man, but
• 20:35
  he's obviously got some blind spots.
• 20:36
  Well, it it depends on his his side of the story.
• 20:39
  You believe about the vagina scene anyway, right?
• 20:41
  Yeah. Because Sharon Stone still says
• 20:43
  he didn't tell me he was going to do that.
• 20:45
  So that's that's pretty bad. Yeah, pretty awful.
• 20:47
  OK, last question. Now, now, Crystal, did you know
• 20:51
  Sharon Stone apparently is one of the smartest actors in
• 20:55
  Hollywood? See, this is what I'm saying.
• 20:57
  She has an IQ of 154. Now I.
• 21:03
  Is that is that a lot? I don't.
• 21:04
  Know yeah, that's really high apparently now I want to play a
• 21:08
  little game of higher or lower in Hollywood so.
• 21:12
  Oh my God. OK, now as I said, Sharon Stone
• 21:16
  has an IQ of 154, which means she's pretty smart.
• 21:19
  Now, Lady Gaga Higher or lower? Well, I don't really know what
• 21:24
  the bar is, but I'm going to say.
• 21:27
  Well, I'm telling you in the bar, Sharon Stone's really
• 21:29
  intelligent. Yeah, OK, I'm going to Lady
• 21:31
  Gaga. More intelligent.
• 21:33
  I'm going to say lower. Oh.
• 21:37
  She has IQ of 166 apparently. Wow, I mean, I buy it.
• 21:43
  She's great in an interview, isn't she?
• 21:45
  Right, You ready for the next 1? Arnold Schwarzenegger.
• 21:52
  Is the twist going to be that all of these people are smart?
• 21:56
  I'm not going to tell you. OK.
• 21:58
  Lower correct. Yeah, 132 Dolph Lundgren.
• 22:06
  Lower. Higher.
• 22:08
  Oh my God, yeah. He has.
• 22:09
  Not, not Dolph. Yeah, he man has.
• 22:13
  My himbo king. Yeah, you're himbo.
• 22:15
  King ain't a himbo. He's smart as 160 IQ.
• 22:19
  Wow. Oh yeah.
• 22:20
  Isn't he like a isn't he actually like a nuclear
• 22:23
  physicist or something crazy? I don't there's some crazy fact
• 22:28
  about Dolph Lundgren. I'm sorry.
• 22:29
  I need I'm I'm sorry. I'm.
• 22:30
  Actually, can we do he man Masters of the Universe as well
• 22:34
  please on this podcast. Lundgren has two degrees in
• 22:38
  chemical engineering and was accepted to MIT on a full
• 22:41
  scholarship. I feel like we're learning.
• 22:44
  We're learning so much about celebrities today, but nothing
• 22:47
  about this movie, which is. That's OK.
• 22:49
  OK, Next up, Oprah. Is she a dum dum compared to
• 22:53
  Sharon Stone? Definitely not a dum dum, but
• 22:58
  I'm going to say lower. She's a Dum Dum 141, which is
• 23:02
  Dum Dum in my books. Dum Dum, Natalie Portman.
• 23:08
  Dum Dum. Higher.
• 23:13
  No, she's a dum dum as well. 140 She's more of a dum dum than
• 23:17
  Oprah. I don't know if we can keep on
• 23:19
  saying dumb dumb, by the way. It's just it's a cute name, but
• 23:22
  I don't mean it. Sylvester Stallone Higher or.
• 23:25
  Lower, lower, higher 100. And 60 That's right, more
• 23:32
  intelligent than Sharon Stone. So we're saying that Dolph
• 23:35
  Lundgren and Sylvester Stallone are both genius level IQ?
• 23:40
  Correct in the world of Hollywood, Madonna.
• 23:45
  Oh my God. Lower.
• 23:46
  Yeah, 140 Paris Hilton lower. Yeah, correct.
• 23:51
  And this, this, this last one might just show that my research
• 23:56
  is complete bullshit. Donald Trump.
• 23:59
  Oh no, say it ain't so slow he's.
• 24:02
  Got two more on the IQ test than Sharon Stone, so no.
• 24:06
  Yeah. Well, turns out all of this was.
• 24:10
  Yeah, exactly. So there we go.
• 24:11
  That that is the end of our quiz.
• 24:14
  There we go. Wow, I wonder what my IQ is.
• 24:16
  I wonder what your IQ is? Yeah.
• 24:18
  I wonder who's more intelligent. I'd say you're more intelligent,
• 24:22
  but I'm more St. savvy I think. Maybe when we get enough
• 24:30
  Gaytreon subscribers we can do an IQ test.
• 24:34
  Like a genealogy test. Love it.
• 24:37
  Yeah. OK, well, there we go.
• 24:40
  OK, well, that was fun. Thank you.
• 24:43
  I'm really going to treasure that fact about Dolph Lundgren,
• 24:46
  even though I've already learned it once before, but I forgot.
• 24:48
  I'm going to treasure it until I forget again.
• 24:52
  Let's learn a bit more about this movie.
• 24:54
  So box office and reviews. This movie made $352 million
• 25:01
  worldwide and was one of the top movies of 1992.
• 25:07
  It was a huge, huge hit. It beat Batman Returns that
• 25:10
  year, sister act, Bram Stoker's Dracula, and it earned nearly as
• 25:14
  much as The Bodyguard. Those are all movies that came
• 25:16
  out that year. Did you?
• 25:18
  What I mean a what a fantastic year for movies.
• 25:20
  What a great year for movies. Wow, I didn't know it beat all
• 25:23
  of those like Batman Returns. That really surprised me.
• 25:26
  Wow. Yeah, totally.
• 25:27
  The budget was 49,000,014 million of that went to Michael
• 25:32
  Douglas. The screenplay was sold for
• 25:36
  $3,000,000, which is like an unheard of amount of money.
• 25:40
  It's crazy. There was like a crazy bidding
• 25:42
  war for this screenplay, which everyone was like, it's amazing.
• 25:45
  We have to have it fucking weird.
• 25:47
  Yeah. And Sharon Stone was only paid
• 25:51
  $500,000. Is that it?
• 25:54
  Yeah, isn't that sad? That's really sad and
• 25:57
  considering how vital she is to kind of.
• 26:01
  Yeah, she's the. She is the movie.
• 26:03
  Yeah. I mean, Michael Douglas, she
• 26:07
  it's a vehicle to make Sharon Stone be the most captivating
• 26:10
  person you've ever seen. And Michael Douglas is also
• 26:13
  there. But then is it that thing?
• 26:15
  Do you know if? Because obviously this did
• 26:17
  catapult her. She'd only done a few B movies
• 26:20
  and things, but this made her. Yeah, her biggest role before
• 26:23
  this had been, I think she was was Total Recall.
• 26:26
  She's in that she plays Arnold Schwarzenegger's evil wife.
• 26:30
  Does she have three tits? No different lady but I mean
• 26:35
  already what a movie. 3 tits and an evil wife.
• 26:42
  This movie has 56% on Rotten Tomatoes and the critical The
• 26:48
  critical consensus is unevenly echoing the work of Alfred
• 26:53
  Hitchcock. Basic Instinct contains a star
• 26:55
  making performance from Sharon Stone, but is ultimately undone
• 26:59
  by its problematic, overly lurid plot.
• 27:03
  Which I think is kind of Fair actually.
• 27:05
  Got some more reviews though. Australian critic Shannon Harvey
• 27:08
  of The Sunday Times called it one of the 90s finest
• 27:11
  productions, doing more for female empowerment than any
• 27:14
  feminist rally. Sure, Jan.
• 27:16
  Wow, how about that? I'm not sure that's true.
• 27:18
  No, I'm not here. Great.
• 27:20
  Go off. Did the movie was protested
• 27:22
  during filming because gay rights activists were upset
• 27:26
  about the portrayal of homosexuality.
• 27:28
  So there were protests all throughout the filming and at
• 27:30
  the opening night a group called LABIA, which stands for the
• 27:38
  Lesbian and Bisexual Activist Group.
• 27:41
  Now they got their shit together on their name, didn't they?
• 27:43
  Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
• 27:46
  They protested the film on opening night, and six
• 27:48
  protesters disrupted the filming of Saturday Night Live in 92
• 27:51
  when Stone was hosting. They rushed.
• 27:54
  They rushed the stage and interrupted the opening
• 27:56
  monologue and had to use a dress rehearsal take.
• 27:59
  Oh wow. Yeah, this is all because people
• 28:02
  were so upset about gays being depicted as, you know, evil
• 28:06
  murderers. It's quite interesting it.
• 28:07
  Is interesting because yeah. Because yeah, I don't know.
• 28:10
  I kind of found her whole her whole vibe very aspirational to
• 28:14
  be honest. I mean girl boss.
• 28:19
  I don't know, Maybe I just feel like the day and age that we're
• 28:22
  in as queer people now, it's like we should all be murdering
• 28:25
  people. I don't.
• 28:26
  Yeah. Kind of feel.
• 28:27
  Yeah. And I mean, that's just like the
• 28:29
  rules of feminism. Well, should we get into the
• 28:31
  murders? Yeah, Let's do it.
• 28:33
  Get into this plot. Gosh.
• 28:35
  Best of luck to listeners trying to follow this plot.
• 28:39
  OK, so we're in San Francisco. We've got a mysterious blonde
• 28:43
  woman having sex with a retired rock star, Johnny Baz.
• 28:48
  They're going for it. We don't know who the blonde
• 28:50
  lady is, we can't see her face, but she ties into a bed with a
• 28:52
  silk scarf during sex and then she stabs him to death with an
• 28:57
  ice pick. And I mean, instantly, that was
• 28:59
  so gratify, gratifying. I was like, yeah, kill him.
• 29:01
  I don't know anything about it, but I was like, kill the
• 29:04
  bastard. Yeah, and it's also instantly
• 29:07
  very verhoven. Like you see an ice pick go into
• 29:10
  an eyeball. Yeah, love that.
• 29:12
  The only thing I questioned though, was the knot on the silk
• 29:16
  scarf really going to do anything?
• 29:17
  Because it it wasn't a very, it's not a very hard knot, is
• 29:20
  it? No, and I guess the fabrics
• 29:22
  quite slippy isn't? It I just, I was going to try
• 29:25
  and get some material and test it beforehand to say I've done
• 29:29
  it, but I haven't been able to to do it.
• 29:31
  Another another thing we can do for the Gatreon.
• 29:33
  Yeah, I guess. Though once you get stabbed
• 29:36
  maybe once in the neck, like maybe the fight goes out of you.
• 29:39
  Yeah, valid again. We can try this.
• 29:42
  We can set this up or we can report back.
• 29:44
  Or I'll tell you something as well.
• 29:46
  She's certainly got a fucking power moved in the old bedroom,
• 29:50
  hasn't she? Oh yeah.
• 29:51
  Yeah, it's kind. Of like, is she orgasming or is
• 29:54
  she about to stab you? It's like, you know, when you
• 29:56
  play like Mortal Kombat or something, or, you know, Oh my
• 29:58
  God, Chung Chung Li and street fights.
• 30:01
  I mean, we've all got that, that power move.
• 30:02
  It's like she leans all the way back and rolls on it and then
• 30:06
  pushes forward. I was like, yeah, get it?
• 30:10
  Well, we we don't know who that Lady is.
• 30:11
  No, no. So then we meet Detective Nick
• 30:15
  Kieran, played by Michael Douglas, and his partner Gus,
• 30:18
  who are there to investigate the murder.
• 30:20
  We've then got some great lines. Just this whole scene has some
• 30:24
  great Joe Esterhaus dialogue. There's come stains all over the
• 30:29
  sheets, there's come stains all over the sheets, etcetera,
• 30:33
  etcetera. I just felt like I was instantly
• 30:36
  in the Showgirls universe. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:38
  Like, I just knew that these men were just up the road in San
• 30:41
  Francisco from Vegas because everyone just talk says the
• 30:45
  craziest stuff all the time. Wouldn't it be great if there
• 30:47
  was like a bit more like the Marvel Universe but a showgirl?
• 30:50
  A real showgirl's universe though with like multiple films
• 30:54
  where they all meet each other. Like, imagine Sharon Stone's
• 30:57
  character meeting Know Me. And they go on like a Thelma and
• 31:04
  Louise style road trip. Yeah, just like fucking up, man.
• 31:07
  Yeah, and bump into Denise Richards.
• 31:10
  She's on the way to space. That's the Crossroads movie I
• 31:14
  want to see. Yeah.
• 31:16
  OK, So the the cops go to Catherine Trammell's house.
• 31:21
  This is Johnny Boss, who's just been murderous girlfriend.
• 31:24
  I'm sorry. I'm going to have to say
• 31:25
  something about Showgirls again. We meet the maid who has a cameo
• 31:27
  in Showgirls. Did you count?
• 31:29
  Did you clock that? Yeah.
• 31:31
  The maid that answers the door is the woman at HR who says
• 31:36
  deceased. Oh my God, yes.
• 31:39
  I need to put in. I need to put in the keyboard
• 31:40
  sound effects. Deceased.
• 31:44
  Oh anyway, love that. So we are in.
• 31:49
  Maybe she went once she got fired as a maid because
• 31:52
  Catherine Trammell moves to London for Basic Instinct.
• 31:54
  Too, Yeah. She goes to Vegas to work at the
• 31:58
  Flamingo, so they're at Catherine Trammell's house.
• 32:00
  She's not home, but who is? Roxy.
• 32:03
  Icon, Love her Icon. The intense anger that she has
• 32:08
  with those cops on the staircase.
• 32:10
  I'm like, yeah, fuck him up. Yeah, Roxy hates cops.
• 32:14
  And then we go to Catherine's second home and we get to see
• 32:17
  Sharon Stone in all her glory. She's smoking, she's on the
• 32:22
  deck, and she's basically got full a cab vibe.
• 32:25
  She's like basically tells them to fuck off, tells them she
• 32:28
  didn't, she didn't kill Johnny Boss and fuck off.
• 32:31
  But does it without even raising her voice in the slightest.
• 32:34
  The power of that gorgeous. And it's worth saying at this
• 32:39
  point, we've already had like, so much dramatic tension.
• 32:42
  Music, like basically any type of woman is on screen.
• 32:45
  There's gonna be sinister music playing.
• 32:48
  Yeah, it's so sweeping, isn't it?
• 32:50
  Yeah. And like she's literally just
• 32:52
  sat she. Sat there having a cigarette and
• 32:55
  like it just shows the power of soundtrack to like create a mood
• 32:59
  because it could actually just. I have felt like nothing.
• 33:02
  I mean, the only other thing to be fair with Sharon Stone in
• 33:05
  this film, she is scorning so much about this movie to the
• 33:09
  point I'm like, I know everyone wants to have sex with her, but
• 33:12
  I'm like, can this person, like, loosen up and have a fun time?
• 33:15
  You know, because she's literally just, like, everything
• 33:17
  is like this intense evil stare. And then later you see her in
• 33:20
  the club and you're like, oh, yeah, she knows how to let
• 33:22
  loose. So I was like, yeah, fair.
• 33:25
  Yeah, it's it's one of those classic things are like you're
• 33:27
  just watching someone on on a movie be like the worst person
• 33:30
  ever. And for some reason everyone is
• 33:32
  obsessed with them because of it.
• 33:34
  But I mean, we all have a friend who's like a massive bitch and
• 33:38
  we're obsessed with. Hi.
• 33:41
  Hi, so then we get a scene where we realize Michael Douglas is
• 33:44
  all fucked up. He's got an appointment with his
• 33:47
  ex, who is also his therapist, which that was a thing in the
• 33:51
  90s, I guess. And this is Beth, played by Jean
• 33:54
  Triplehorn. Michael Douglas has done
• 33:56
  something bad. We're not sure what it is.
• 33:58
  And he's an alcoholic and a drug addict, but Beth still misses
• 34:03
  him. Oh God, I mean good hair though.
• 34:08
  Fantastic hair. Oh my God her hair is so full.
• 34:13
  Yeah, it's so I'm like, is that a wig?
• 34:16
  No, she's just got the best hair.
• 34:19
  Yeah, good for her. Amazing.
• 34:21
  Yeah, Gene triple her looks so hot in this movie.
• 34:24
  She does, but it's just she, you know, I think the 90s, you had
• 34:27
  to be blown to be hot. I think that was the number one
• 34:30
  rule. Oh my God, she looks so good.
• 34:32
  And I mean, it's under, it's undone by her character being so
• 34:36
  pathetic. It's a, it's an annoying
• 34:38
  character because she's, she's like got the least agency of
• 34:42
  anyone in the movie, probably. So then we've got an
• 34:44
  investigation which reveals that Catherine Tramel is a crime
• 34:48
  author. She's super rich, she's got $100
• 34:51
  million, and she's written a novel where the same murder with
• 34:55
  an ice pick happens. So they go back to see her, to
• 34:58
  bring her in for questioning, and now we've got the scene.
• 35:03
  Yeah. We've got the scene.
• 35:04
  Yeah, because I was surprised. It came in at like 20 minutes
• 35:06
  into the movie. I was like, wow, that's early to
• 35:08
  go in with that. Yeah, so she's, I mean, you've
• 35:12
  seen the scene, she's in the investigation room, she's
• 35:15
  smoking and she's uncrossing her legs.
• 35:18
  What you maybe have not seen if you've never seen this movie is
• 35:20
  her saying the words. You ever fuck on cocaine, Nick?
• 35:25
  Have you ever fucked on cocaine, Nick?
• 35:27
  Which is such a great another great like showgirls line
• 35:31
  basically. It's brilliant.
• 35:32
  Yeah, it's absolutely amazing. Catherine's getting under Nick's
• 35:35
  collar, and then he's getting all hot and bothered, and so he
• 35:40
  takes Beth home and he rapes her.
• 35:43
  Yeah. Really or really horrible?
• 35:45
  Yeah, I mean it. It just like to start with, you
• 35:50
  can kind of see that, you know, oh, he's so like turned on by
• 35:54
  her that actually this could equate to just really hot sex
• 35:57
  between them, do you know what I mean?
• 35:59
  And that she could be into it. And to kind of start with, they
• 36:01
  are having that really like visceral animal moment, aren't
• 36:04
  they? Yeah.
• 36:05
  And then it just, it just crosses over into that.
• 36:07
  Yeah. And then she's like, no, no, no.
• 36:09
  And then, yeah, it's gross. And then the scene afterwards,
• 36:13
  it's like she says, you know, you weren't making love.
• 36:16
  And it's like, no, he, he was just fucking raped by him.
• 36:20
  Yeah, it's really horrible. I don't.
• 36:23
  It's kind of hard to know what the movie thinks about this
• 36:26
  scene, I think. I think that Paul Verhoeven's
• 36:31
  point of view is that this is a terrible, terrible man, but he's
• 36:35
  also the protagonist of the movie in this weird way.
• 36:38
  I think he's kind of being like, look how horrible this man is.
• 36:40
  And it depends on you whether or not you're like, oh, he's just a
• 36:44
  troubled cop with a few skeletons in his closet, or
• 36:47
  you're like, this is the worst man in the world.
• 36:49
  And I think part of the problem with that is, is when you've got
• 36:52
  someone who is like a leading man in Hollywood that loads of
• 36:55
  people love. And you know, at the time he,
• 36:59
  Michael Douglas was always playing these like home bag
• 37:02
  roles, wasn't him. I think this is the good thing
• 37:04
  about the Internet. People just have more options
• 37:06
  now. Don't know why was he deemed a
• 37:09
  stud in Hollywood. It's like he's gross.
• 37:13
  But so I think it's it's really hard to like hate on him when he
• 37:18
  is just like this big popular Hollywood leading man.
• 37:20
  And that's kind of the thing I agree with you.
• 37:22
  I think Paul Verhoeven didn't want to paint him as like a
• 37:25
  likeable character. But then there is something
• 37:27
  inherent about the film where you are meant to be siding with
• 37:30
  him and kind of. Yeah, it's, it's weird, isn't
• 37:32
  it? But I think that's kind of,
• 37:33
  that's kind of what I like about Paul Verhoeven because I think
• 37:36
  he does that on purpose and is like, he's kind of trying to be
• 37:39
  like, look how gross society is and without getting like too
• 37:43
  serious too soon. But like, I think that's, I
• 37:46
  think that is his purpose. He's like, trying to make you
• 37:49
  resonate with a character who's disgusting to make you be like,
• 37:51
  Oh my God, this is like, what's going on here?
• 37:55
  It's quite interesting. But also like, what does this
• 37:58
  rape have to do with this movie? You know, You could also argue
• 38:02
  that it's just some kind of weird fantasy thing.
• 38:04
  I think it's weird as well because without obviously we
• 38:06
  will talk about this in the The Gate show episode, there's a
• 38:10
  similar moment where the idea of Sharon Stone's character brings
• 38:15
  out this moment of sexual wild passion into their the main
• 38:19
  guys. Because that's what happens in
• 38:20
  the second one where he gets he sees the book cover and then he
• 38:24
  grabs that girl and like fucks her up the ass.
• 38:27
  It's like the power Sharon Stone has.
• 38:30
  I know gosh, like lock up your husband's because if she lays
• 38:35
  eyes on them they'll be on drugs.
• 38:38
  They'll be fucking like animals. Fucking like minx.
• 38:42
  So Nick discovers that Catherine has a history of befriending
• 38:45
  murderers. This includes Roxy, who's
• 38:49
  Catherine's girlfriend, who killed her two younger brothers
• 38:52
  at the age of 16, and Hazel Dobkins, who killed her husband
• 38:56
  and children. We love Hazel.
• 38:58
  Though I love Hazel, I love she's giving Carol Channing.
• 39:03
  Raspberry I kind of was hoping there'll be a bit more of like a
• 39:07
  lesbian moment between those two because I was getting like, but
• 39:11
  maybe it was like a maternal motherly role I was.
• 39:13
  Well, that's what I used to think, and then I watched it.
• 39:15
  This time I was like, oh wait, are they?
• 39:17
  Are they also a lesbian thing? Who knows?
• 39:20
  Hazel Hazel's definitely the Dom in that relationship though,
• 39:23
  right? Yeah, that's, that's the
• 39:25
  different side to Sharon Stone in this.
• 39:26
  She's not like giving any sass or anything.
• 39:29
  She's just being a good little girl for Hazel in the.
• 39:32
  Bedroom so well, Hazel's like raspberries.
• 39:39
  Nick discovers that Catherine is using him as the basis or the
• 39:42
  protagonist of her latest book, in which his character is
• 39:46
  murdered after falling for the wrong woman.
• 39:48
  And we've got another ice pick scene.
• 39:50
  We've got Sharon Stone attacking a giant block of ice.
• 39:53
  Have you ever used an ice pick? No, no.
• 39:56
  And I know you haven't because listen, Crystal has the fanciest
• 40:00
  ice cubes I've ever seen in my life.
• 40:03
  They're like these big huge squares, aren't they?
• 40:06
  You've got proper. Yeah, but it turns out a giant
• 40:10
  block of ice. That's when I think, you know,
• 40:11
  you've made it and you're just chipping off chunks with a big
• 40:15
  fucking weapon. It looks so fun.
• 40:19
  There you go, Christmas list. There we go.
• 40:21
  I'll add it on for you. It's she likes it because she
• 40:24
  likes the rough edges. And this is where we get to
• 40:28
  reveal that Catherine is bi and that Roxy is her lover because
• 40:32
  Roxy walks in the room and then Catherine like grabs her tit and
• 40:35
  they make out a bunch. This really it's very male gazed
• 40:40
  lesbians. Totally.
• 40:41
  Because it's like, it's like, are they really that turned on
• 40:45
  by each other in that moment that they have to do that?
• 40:47
  But. Catherine knows a lot about
• 40:50
  Nick's personal life and about his past where he killed some
• 40:54
  people sort of by mistake when he was high on coke.
• 40:57
  And he's suspicious that Catherine bribed Lieutenant
• 41:00
  Marty Nielsen for his psychiatric file.
• 41:03
  Nick assaults Nielsen and then Nielsen is found murdered and
• 41:07
  Nick is suspected and placed on Lee.
• 41:08
  The bodies are piling up. Then we've got a club scene.
• 41:12
  The. Best club scene in the world.
• 41:15
  I'm sorry, that is a spectacular scene.
• 41:18
  I'm sorry, I have to say it again.
• 41:19
  It's very showgirls. It's very showgirls because they
• 41:21
  all danced into completely different music and I was
• 41:24
  thinking like the drugs in the 90s must have been really
• 41:28
  fucking good because they are throwing different shapes,
• 41:30
  different things are going on. I'm like, yeah, that looks like
• 41:33
  a good time in there. Yeah, and then you've got
• 41:35
  Michael Douglas in AV neck merino sweater.
• 41:38
  But for some reason, you know, Catherine's in interested.
• 41:41
  She saw she saw that V-neck sweater and she thought, you
• 41:43
  know what? Yes.
• 41:45
  So she takes him home, ties into the bed with her silk scarf, and
• 41:51
  then you're like Oh my God, is she going to kill him with an
• 41:53
  ice pick? But Nope, she just orgasms.
• 41:56
  She just orgasms. Yeah, well, she does the same
• 41:58
  moves that I was telling about. She does.
• 41:59
  The same move back. Arch.
• 42:01
  She comes back and then she falls forward.
• 42:04
  And is she holding an ice pick? She's not.
• 42:06
  No, exactly. Roxy watches them have sex.
• 42:10
  And that's called cooking, isn't it?
• 42:12
  Yeah, that's cooking. Yeah.
• 42:14
  Just checking I know the right term for it.
• 42:16
  Yeah, but Roxy's a bit pissed off and she's not happy that
• 42:20
  Nick has begun a relationship with Catherine.
• 42:21
  Was because she's just witnessed the fuck of the century.
• 42:27
  I hated this bit, Nick says. Man to man to Roxy.
• 42:31
  You get so much homophobia off that man.
• 42:33
  Yeah, it was. Yeah.
• 42:34
  And he's really, I, I mean, something I did appreciate about
• 42:39
  Catherine's character sort of after this, because he's really
• 42:43
  like bigging himself up. He thinks he's literally just
• 42:45
  like fucked up. And then Catherine's, like, you
• 42:48
  really thought it was that good. It wasn't that good.
• 42:50
  And it's like Roxy has seen everything.
• 42:52
  She's seen me do everything with everyone.
• 42:55
  Like get over yourself. Yeah, it wasn't the fuck of the
• 42:58
  century. It was a good start.
• 43:00
  Yeah, it's so good. I love it.
• 43:02
  But this, like the whole movie, is basically her destroying
• 43:06
  Michael Douglas. Oh.
• 43:07
  Totally, Yeah. Which is so fun to watch.
• 43:11
  Anyway, Roxy's jealous of Nick, so she tries to run him over
• 43:14
  with Catherine's car, but instead she crashes and dies.
• 43:19
  Gosh, everybody's dying. And again, it's that thing of
• 43:22
  like, oh, give her a bit more power in that situation.
• 43:26
  Like, you know, Michael, he really, he really got the one up
• 43:29
  on her too quickly, if you ask me.
• 43:31
  He came out totally. He came out unscathed, didn't
• 43:34
  he? Yeah, but Catherine's upset
• 43:37
  about Roxy's death, so she has sex with Nick again for some
• 43:41
  reason, and then she tells him about a college encounter with a
• 43:45
  girl that ended badly when the girl became obsessed with her.
• 43:49
  Nick identifies that that girl is our girl Beth, but she claims
• 43:53
  it was Catherine who is obsessed.
• 43:55
  Oh no, who could it be? So now we don't know.
• 43:58
  Is Beth the murderer? Is she another evil bisexual
• 44:02
  obsessed with Catherine or is Catherine playing a game?
• 44:05
  I mean, I mean, I know I've watched the sequel many times,
• 44:08
  so I know that old Catherine is like a murdering psychopath, but
• 44:13
  I don't think anybody ever is going to believe that anyone is
• 44:17
  the murderer but Catherine Trammell, right?
• 44:21
  Yeah, I don't think. But she doesn't wait, she
• 44:23
  doesn't kill anyone in the second one, does she?
• 44:25
  Yeah, she does. Well, I think I thought, well,
• 44:29
  well, listeners, listeners, you're going to have to
• 44:33
  subscribe. Yeah.
• 44:36
  So we're now we're in this question.
• 44:37
  We're like, Oh my God, maybe Beth's been the one behind it
• 44:40
  all along. And Catherine's just like an, an
• 44:42
  innocent in the wrong place at the wrong time.
• 44:44
  But she finishes her book and she dumps Nick, which is fab.
• 44:49
  Again, it's just another little twist of the knife into Nick's
• 44:52
  little fragile little stupid little man.
• 44:55
  Yeah, and then we've got another murder.
• 44:59
  Nick discovers his partner stabbed to death with an ice
• 45:02
  pick. Beth arrives, and because Nick
• 45:05
  now thinks Beth is the killer, he shoots her dead.
• 45:08
  Actually, before he does that, he says still like girls Beth
• 45:11
  because he just had to say something homophobic right
• 45:14
  before he. Shot I mean, I also.
• 45:15
  The woman who's in love with him, I also.
• 45:17
  Really don't think he needed to have shot her.
• 45:19
  But there was no proof. There was no proof of a gun.
• 45:22
  Yeah, he thought she was reaching for a gun, but turns
• 45:24
  out she was unarmed. And as she dies, she says, I
• 45:27
  loved you, Nick. Which is just a what a waste.
• 45:31
  At least be like fuck you do you know what I mean?
• 45:33
  If someone had killed me and treated me like shit, I would
• 45:36
  like to think that in my last breath I could come up with
• 45:39
  something a bit cunt. Yeah, you were a shit leg.
• 45:42
  Yeah, you're the worst. My worst fuck of the century.
• 45:46
  Yeah. Micropenis, Dick.
• 45:48
  Not as. Yeah, you've got a waddle
• 45:54
  anyway. Yeah, why the fuck do all these
• 45:55
  people love Michael Douglas? But evidence is found that
• 45:58
  implicates Beth in all of the murders of everyone who's died,
• 46:03
  And so that's maybe that. But then Catherine and Nick
• 46:05
  meet, Catherine's ice exterior is melted and she wants to be
• 46:09
  with Nick. And they have one last buck.
• 46:13
  But unseen by Nick, an ice pick lies underneath the bed.
• 46:24
  Yeah, what a movie. What a movie.
• 46:27
  Where do we start? I mean, I love this movie.
• 46:31
  Of course you love this movie. I love it, I think.
• 46:35
  I know that it's imperfect and I know that it's problematic, but
• 46:38
  I think but. That's allowed.
• 46:39
  That is allowed. That is allowed.
• 46:41
  It is. So fun.
• 46:42
  It is so fun. It gave us Sharon Stone, who
• 46:46
  like I think she's so fucking cool.
• 46:48
  And it took the femper, the femme fatale trope and just
• 46:51
  dials it up to like a bajillion in this way that only Paul
• 46:54
  Verhoeven could do. Like, it's just everything at
• 46:57
  100 the whole way through. And it's the I just think that
• 47:01
  makes it really fun to watch. I also agree with that because
• 47:04
  although like there is like incredibly problematic,
• 47:07
  misogynistic things throughout, littered throughout this movie,
• 47:11
  there is something incredibly consistently powerful about
• 47:14
  Sharon Stone's character in it. And her character kind of
• 47:18
  doesn't drop into any of the tropes.
• 47:21
  I know that she's like a sexy bisexual, but you're you're just
• 47:25
  kind of like, yeah, you're always in control.
• 47:28
  I don't buy that she what do I buy that she falls in love with
• 47:31
  him? No, I don't.
• 47:34
  Actually, no. That would be the only thing
• 47:36
  that would ruin it, right, like if she if she ended up with him
• 47:40
  and they and she was like, Oh, you've you've fixed me.
• 47:43
  That would undo everything. But because that ice picks under
• 47:47
  that bed, I think now she's going to kill him.
• 47:50
  It's it's a close call though, isn't it?
• 47:52
  Because I do. I do remember feeling slightly
• 47:54
  disappointed by the ending, just because there's the whole what
• 47:59
  do we do now? And it's referenced more than
• 48:01
  once. Yeah, what do we do now?
• 48:05
  But like Lynx, raise Rugrats live happily ever after.
• 48:13
  And then she just like, I hate Rugrats.
• 48:14
  And it's like, oh, now we've got a compromise and I know it's
• 48:17
  sort of left. Will she do it?
• 48:18
  Won't she? But I just kind of wanted her to
• 48:21
  just go, oh, shut the fuck up and then start stabbing him.
• 48:23
  And so you've got like a beautiful ending.
• 48:26
  That's what I would have done. Yeah, well, they wanted it to be
• 48:29
  a little bit of a question mark, right?
• 48:31
  Like there is a reading of the movie where she didn't kill
• 48:34
  anyone and it was all Beth. Which is an right an
• 48:37
  interesting, yeah. I don't.
• 48:40
  I don't think that's the case, but I also don't think it really
• 48:43
  matters that much because either way you spin it like Sharon
• 48:47
  Stone is this manipulative mastermind.
• 48:48
  She's the one in charge. She's like, yeah, she's like,
• 48:52
  don't fuck with me. Yeah.
• 48:55
  I think it is a shame that they kind of end up together and
• 48:58
  they're only saving grace is if if you think she's going to
• 49:00
  murder him. Yeah, and also how do we feel?
• 49:02
  Because he he actually has no punishment.
• 49:05
  Does he really? No, yeah, that's that's also a
• 49:09
  shame. Yeah, because it's yeah, He
• 49:11
  pretty much gets by just being a bent cop, doesn't he?
• 49:16
  Yeah, he's, But he's killed these tourists.
• 49:19
  He's on drugs, he's killed his girlfriend who's also his
• 49:23
  therapist. And raped her.
• 49:25
  And raped her. Yeah, he's awful.
• 49:27
  And he, he probably gets reinstated at the end because he
• 49:30
  found the killer, quote UN quote.
• 49:32
  And if he doesn't get murdered? Hopefully.
• 49:35
  Hopefully he did get murdered though because he he's nothing.
• 49:38
  They don't even mention him in the sequel, so hopefully, yeah,
• 49:42
  she's she's killed him and then gone.
• 49:43
  Right now I'm going to go to London and fuck up some more
• 49:46
  people. It's funny because like, yeah,
• 49:49
  the San Francisco stuff does get mentioned in the sequel, doesn't
• 49:51
  it? But it doesn't mention.
• 49:52
  Him. No, not at all.
• 49:53
  Not even like a passing name. Yeah, yeah.
• 49:56
  So I guess it doesn't matter if she did it, does it?
• 49:58
  But it's like so fun to watch Sharon Stone just be like.
• 50:02
  Tormenting. Him the head bitch?
• 50:04
  Yeah. She's so great and so powerful.
• 50:07
  She's so great in this movie. And then he's just got got me to
• 50:09
  thinking like, I mean, I know she has had a successful film
• 50:13
  career, but we're not talking like iconic films.
• 50:17
  I think she's a big Hollywood star, but I don't think she's
• 50:20
  had that many iconic roles, has she, Casino?
• 50:25
  Yeah, Casino. I mean, Casino, she was
• 50:27
  nominated for an Oscar for. She's amazing at it.
• 50:30
  She's like a great. I mean, she's clearly a great
• 50:32
  actress and she's very good in Casino.
• 50:35
  I don't actually like that movie very much, but she's very good
• 50:37
  in it. But what else has she done?
• 50:39
  Yeah, you're right. She was in Do you remember?
• 50:43
  Did you ever see Sliver with William Baldwin?
• 50:47
  No, but that was like capitalizing on her Basic
• 50:50
  Instinct success. Yeah, it's basically the same
• 50:52
  thing. It's just her.
• 50:54
  Well, I think she's the victim in that one.
• 50:56
  He's the OK, he's the one, that's what they did.
• 50:59
  He's the one playing like the psychosexual mind games and
• 51:04
  she's more the victim of it. And does she love it or doesn't
• 51:06
  she kind of vibe? Got it.
• 51:08
  So it's like a 50 shade situation.
• 51:10
  Yeah, I need, I do need to watch it because it's also Joe
• 51:12
  Esterhouse, so. And also William.
• 51:15
  Baldwin. I know, I guess some other crazy
• 51:17
  dialogue. OK.
• 51:18
  Yeah, he the Baldwins are hot. I know they're problematic, but
• 51:21
  they're they were hot. Well, and of course she's done.
• 51:25
  Catwoman of. Course, yeah, the the crowning
• 51:28
  glory, Yeah, I thought the film as a whole.
• 51:31
  How so let's talk about the Queen representation.
• 51:33
  Like is was it problematic for you?
• 51:35
  I enjoyed the depictions of chaotic bisexuals, but that's
• 51:40
  because I think it's funny and like I know that bisexuals I
• 51:44
  know would also think it's funny.
• 51:46
  It's not a good representation, but it's almost like beyond that
• 51:50
  because it's so silly that it's it goes back round to good.
• 51:54
  But again, yeah, and like, a very, like, I'm sure it's my
• 51:57
  queer reading of it. But like, you know, all Sharon
• 52:00
  Stone talks about is like, polyamory and like, kind of
• 52:03
  gender fluidity. And just like, there's that
• 52:06
  whole sort of section at the start.
• 52:08
  What, you were fucking him, but you didn't love him.
• 52:11
  I wasn't dating him. I was fucking him.
• 52:14
  You were fucking him for fun. And it they're trying to shame
• 52:18
  her for just enjoying sex. And just like, you know, she got
• 52:22
  to like him through fucking him. And again, I think because of,
• 52:26
  you know, the community we're part of and, like, against the
• 52:29
  kind of basic heteronormativity structure of everything, it's
• 52:33
  just kind of like, it just feels like normal that that's how
• 52:36
  people view it. And, you know, and, yeah, her
• 52:39
  hot girlfriend is watching her and they, they go off on these
• 52:42
  trips and fuck other people. And just like, yeah, it's funny
• 52:46
  having like, a modern reading. I'm not remotely shocked about
• 52:49
  her behaviour at all. I'm like, yeah, she's just
• 52:52
  having a good time, isn't she? Yeah.
• 52:54
  And I guess that's the benefit of like 30 years on.
• 52:57
  We've had lots and lots and lots of representation.
• 52:59
  That's good. So it's kind of hard.
• 53:01
  It makes it kind of hard to imagine someone protesting this
• 53:03
  movie just because there was a murderous lesbian in it.
• 53:07
  Like like it doesn't feel like a big enough problem to warrant
• 53:11
  it. And again, I think in a more
• 53:13
  modern read, sort of modern viewing of it, it just kind of
• 53:16
  makes Michael Douglas seem even more pathetic because it's like
• 53:20
  he's had a great fuck and now his instinct is he wants to
• 53:23
  marry, settle down and have kids and live happily ever after.
• 53:27
  And it's like, she's literally like, the book's done.
• 53:29
  He's dead next next door. And she's just so below that,
• 53:34
  above that, I mean. But then, yeah, so like, what
• 53:38
  would be the equivalent? Like, say, JK Rowling was doing
• 53:40
  a movie about, like, a murderous trans person.
• 53:44
  We'd all protest it, wouldn't we?
• 53:45
  It's kind of hard. It's just kind of hard.
• 53:47
  It's kind of hard to imagine people being that upset about
• 53:50
  this movie that they wanted to, like, shut down production and
• 53:53
  protest and blah, blah, blah. But I'm just trying to think of
• 53:55
  what a modern equivalent of that would be.
• 53:58
  But then do we think that even though it was made in a
• 54:01
  different time with a different context, I mean, OK, I don't
• 54:05
  know. Do do straight people do?
• 54:07
  Do straight people hate Sharon Stone in this movie?
• 54:10
  Do they see her as a villain? Or do they celebrate her like we
• 54:12
  celebrate her? Because I don't once view her as
• 54:16
  like, anything negative. I completely celebrate
• 54:18
  everything she does in this film.
• 54:20
  I think she's like dangerous. I think she's like forbidden
• 54:25
  fruit. I think she's tantalizing, but
• 54:28
  like, don't get too close. I think she's like a warning to
• 54:31
  straight people, which is kind of exactly what I want queer
• 54:36
  people to be. Totally, totally.
• 54:39
  I mean, she just has a fabulous life, doesn't she?
• 54:42
  Yeah. None of her books seem
• 54:44
  particularly good as well, but she's done very well out of
• 54:47
  them, hasn't she? And and she just spends so much
• 54:49
  time in her mansions, like undressing in front of windows,
• 54:52
  like she's just every time they turn up at her house, I'm like,
• 54:56
  what was she just doing? Like, what was she up to?
• 54:59
  And it was probably like making ice blocks and then chipping
• 55:04
  them apart and then getting it getting into a little silky
• 55:07
  number with no panties on. You're.
• 55:08
  Right though, because whenever we see her and there's no
• 55:11
  dialogue or any context, everything is vicious and and
• 55:14
  evil though, isn't it? Even like her getting changed is
• 55:17
  done with like a kind of evil intent.
• 55:22
  Yeah. Except for when she's with Hazel
• 55:26
  and then we see a much sort of softer side of her.
• 55:28
  Hey, So yeah, I'm just coming, darling.
• 55:31
  Yeah. That's because Hazel's got the
• 55:33
  keys to the chastity belt. Catherine Trammell is locked.
• 55:38
  But yeah, I guess it is not a great portrayal of of women
• 55:43
  there. I like the women in this are
• 55:44
  either pathetic like love obsessed losers who are willing
• 55:50
  to forgive a man for raping them and like die for them you're.
• 55:54
  So, right, Beth in this is just, yeah, the worst, isn't she?
• 55:58
  Or they're like cold, calculating black widows who are
• 56:01
  like eating men alive. So yeah, OK, it's not, it's not
• 56:06
  great from that perspective. But I'm also just so happy to
• 56:10
  have a character like Sharon Stone because we all need a bit
• 56:14
  of that like superhero. She's like a queer superhero.
• 56:16
  She's she's aspirational if you're marginalized, I think.
• 56:22
  And I guess as well, there aren't any men in this this
• 56:25
  movie that are are like painted in a yeah, right, Like all of
• 56:29
  his colleagues will Ben and gross and like the way that they
• 56:33
  like, perv over her in like the interrogations and everything.
• 56:37
  There's not like the innocent good guy that's got caught up in
• 56:40
  the mix, is it? Like the rock star she kills
• 56:43
  seems dodgy. Yeah, you're right.
• 56:46
  All of the men suck. In fact, the men suck more than
• 56:49
  the women. They're stupider.
• 56:51
  They're poorer. They're they're all addicted to
• 56:54
  shit. Yeah, basically.
• 56:57
  Again, it's that, that's that Paul Verhoeven thing of being
• 57:00
  like, look how awful everyone is.
• 57:02
  Isn't it fun to watch them? I would have liked a list.
• 57:06
  I would have liked more scenes with just Catherine.
• 57:09
  I would have liked to have got to know what she just did on a
• 57:12
  day-to-day. Yeah.
• 57:13
  Do you know what I mean? Just it was a lot of Michael
• 57:15
  Douglas and that. Yeah, unfortunately, whenever he
• 57:19
  was on screen, it was like, oh, this is this doesn't feel camp.
• 57:23
  There's not camp things with him.
• 57:25
  Yeah, the only things you get from him are like some fun
• 57:29
  dialogue moments that like other people say in scenes with him,
• 57:32
  like Magna cum laude pussy. Well, she got that Magna cum
• 57:37
  laude pussy on her that done fried up your brain.
• 57:40
  Check out the cum sands on these sheets.
• 57:43
  My favorite line in in the whole thing is when Beth goes, she's
• 57:47
  evil, she's brilliant, and I just think she's like the the
• 57:52
  best line. Yeah, screaming that at someone
• 57:55
  as they as they walk away is so good.
• 57:58
  Yeah, it's just like perfect, perfect, perfect.
• 58:01
  Next time I leave you in a public place, I'm going to like,
• 58:04
  scream after you. No, she's evil.
• 58:07
  She's brilliant. This did kind of start a new
• 58:11
  wave of these kind of films though, didn't it?
• 58:13
  Was Fatal Attraction before this actually?
• 58:16
  It was, yeah, But there's definitely like.
• 58:19
  God Michael Douglas is such a prick.
• 58:21
  So he always basically has hot women great actresses psychotic
• 58:28
  perving after him. Right?
• 58:30
  So it was going close in Fatal Attraction, Sharon Stone in this
• 58:35
  and Demi Moore in Disclosure. Oh my God, yeah, it doesn't make
• 58:42
  any sense. Not at all.
• 58:44
  Shaman Stone doesn't act anymore now does she?
• 58:46
  I think she's had like medical issues and she doesn't.
• 58:48
  Oh, I think she does. I think she's just been cast in
• 58:50
  Euphoria. Oh, I think she's coming back on
• 58:53
  the new. Season.
• 58:53
  Well, I thought she was doing pottery in Sussex, West Sussex.
• 58:57
  Well, she could do both. I hope she does both.
• 59:01
  Would you, would you, do you see a role for her?
• 59:04
  What kind of what kind of role would you like to see for Anna?
• 59:06
  She's 67 years old. Is she?
• 59:10
  I see her what doing whatever she wants to do but like I'd
• 59:14
  love to see her in a cougar role.
• 59:17
  I mean, The thing is it. Just continuing to defy
• 59:19
  expectations. It must be hard, like literally
• 59:22
  just having a career and like the the number one thing people
• 59:25
  know about think about is your vagina.
• 59:28
  Awful, right? Awful.
• 59:30
  Yeah. Should we, should we talk about
• 59:31
  that a bit? So she filmed that scene and
• 59:36
  Paul Verhoeven said that there was like light reflecting off
• 59:39
  her panties. So this is her account of it.
• 59:43
  And so he asked her to take off her panties and he said it would
• 59:47
  nothing would be visible. And then she watched on the
• 59:49
  monitor. And because it was so low res,
• 59:51
  she thought nothing was visible. And so it wasn't until she
• 59:53
  watched a screening of the movie that she realized how much you
• 59:56
  could see. And she was really fucking
• 59:58
  pissed off, obviously. Yeah, because I mean, there is a
• 1:00:01
  place for it in the movie and for her character.
• 1:00:04
  I mean, it's, it's like it's a real.
• 1:00:06
  It's a big move for any like that kind of coward.
• 1:00:09
  It's a proper like sexual power play game.
• 1:00:12
  I get it. But yeah, like you kind of,
• 1:00:15
  well, you don't kind of. You need consent from the ACT.
• 1:00:17
  You need. Consent.
• 1:00:18
  You need consent. It's the same with like in
• 1:00:21
  Showgirls where you've got that rape scene and he's trying to
• 1:00:25
  say like, look how horrible the world is that this happens, but
• 1:00:28
  by doing it, he actually traumatized the actress who was
• 1:00:31
  filming that scene because it was so horrible to film.
• 1:00:34
  And so he's like putting the point that he's trying to make
• 1:00:40
  ahead of the welfare of the of the women on screen with him.
• 1:00:44
  And it just means it's just kind of completely undercuts any
• 1:00:46
  point that he's trying to make about like sexual violence, for
• 1:00:49
  example, because it's actually done harm to the people who were
• 1:00:53
  making who were filming the scene.
• 1:00:55
  Even Jean Triplehorn, I saw a quote from her and she said in
• 1:00:59
  93 in Entertainment Weekly, she said the notorious brutal
• 1:01:03
  bruising sex between her and Douglas's character was lighter
• 1:01:06
  when described to her by Verhoeven before shooting right.
• 1:01:10
  It's horrible. It really is horrible and
• 1:01:12
  especially you've got to you know, another thing you've got
• 1:01:14
  to think about was Sharon Stone this she had zero power in
• 1:01:18
  Hollywood. You you said that Michael
• 1:01:20
  Douglas got paid 14,000,000 and she got 500,000.
• 1:01:24
  This is exactly that thing of Hollywood being like, do you
• 1:01:26
  want this role or not? Do you want?
• 1:01:28
  You know it's? Yeah, What are you willing to
• 1:01:30
  do? She has kind of reclaimed it a
• 1:01:33
  bit. There's a really good Vanity
• 1:01:37
  Fair article where she, like, goes through it.
• 1:01:41
  I really recommend it because it's just an, it's an op-ed just
• 1:01:45
  by her and she talks about all of the production and
• 1:01:47
  everything. It's really, really interesting.
• 1:01:49
  And she has kind of come around to being like, well, I did it
• 1:01:52
  and I'm not ashamed. Do.
• 1:01:55
  You know what I mean? And she shouldn't feel ashamed
• 1:01:57
  because it's, I mean, it's also, I mean, it's, it's an iconic
• 1:02:00
  moment in cinema. Like regardless, it is, it is
• 1:02:03
  something that people and it also it's so, you know, it
• 1:02:07
  always interests me like how people can do something that
• 1:02:10
  shocks. And I know it was like, you
• 1:02:12
  know, how long ago was this like 30 years ago now?
• 1:02:15
  Yeah. So, but it's still kind of like,
• 1:02:18
  it's impressive to me that, you know, films, characters like
• 1:02:22
  this can shock people and they should shock people.
• 1:02:25
  But yeah, I just wish it was more consensual with her because
• 1:02:27
  I love, I love the idea of her doing all of these kind of
• 1:02:31
  things that really disturb people.
• 1:02:32
  I there's something about the way the male characters watch
• 1:02:36
  it, though. Like I feel like before that
• 1:02:38
  moment she's really in charge, like fully in charge with the
• 1:02:44
  the how she's playing them all and she is kind of in the
• 1:02:46
  spotlight looking hot and she's got all of these like gross men
• 1:02:49
  drooling over her. But there is still this power.
• 1:02:53
  And like there's something about it that doesn't she kind of
• 1:02:56
  loses it. I think it's just because it's
• 1:02:58
  the way it was consumed at the time.
• 1:02:59
  Like tabloid guys being like, oh, let's watch Sharon Stone's
• 1:03:02
  pussy, blah, blah, blah. It just.
• 1:03:04
  Oh, right. You mean so the way it was, the
• 1:03:06
  way it is in the movie is like, empowering and then the way it
• 1:03:09
  was taken after? Yeah, I think so.
• 1:03:12
  And she was, like, mocked so much for it.
• 1:03:14
  It was spoofed so much. Yeah, I totally agree.
• 1:03:18
  It's like even if she had consented and had agency and was
• 1:03:22
  like up for it, it's still the response to it, still would have
• 1:03:25
  been really. Horrible.
• 1:03:26
  Which is really sad because it's such a boss move.
• 1:03:30
  It's so cool. Is this?
• 1:03:31
  She's just like, I'm going to fucking fuck you up.
• 1:03:36
  And yes, I have killed someone and I'm so confident I'm now
• 1:03:39
  going to. Well, I love it.
• 1:03:40
  Like it moves away from this, but I love how unnecessary it is
• 1:03:44
  when she's doing the lie detector test and she's found
• 1:03:46
  her camera and she's literally eyeballing the camera
• 1:03:48
  constantly. And as he's like, what are we
• 1:03:50
  going to do? She's just there smoking,
• 1:03:52
  staring at the camera, and I'm just like, yeah, get it?
• 1:03:56
  She's so good. It does make you want to do
• 1:03:59
  drugs, makes you want to smoke, it makes you want to do drugs.
• 1:04:01
  You want to do drugs? Do you know, the writer ended up
• 1:04:05
  getting throat cancer, and he said he regretted glamorizing
• 1:04:08
  smoking in all of his movies. But.
• 1:04:12
  But God, it looks good. It's like, yeah, let's, let's
• 1:04:16
  have like a really icy vodka, a cigarette and some cocaine.
• 1:04:20
  And I didn't know this, but apparently you can quit killing
• 1:04:23
  but not smoking. That was something interesting I
• 1:04:25
  learned about this movie. Well, there's obviously so much
• 1:04:29
  we could say about this movie and there's so much discourse
• 1:04:32
  around it. There's been so many think
• 1:04:34
  pieces. I mean, it's impossible to get
• 1:04:35
  into all of it, but I think at the time has come to.
• 1:04:39
  Rate this movie Absolutely. And that, yeah, The thing is,
• 1:04:42
  we're not, we're not a real think piece podcast.
• 1:04:48
  What are the gay bits we like? Yeah, basically, can we, can we,
• 1:04:52
  can we change the tagline? It's not a thoughtful podcast
• 1:04:55
  about stupid movies, it's just what are the gay bits we like?
• 1:04:58
  The podcast, it's a more accurate title.
• 1:05:05
  Well, let's start with our Merrells.
• 1:05:07
  So for the quality of this movie, how many Merrells are we
• 1:05:11
  giving it? Bon appetit.
• 1:05:13
  God, it's so hard to think about the quality of this film while
• 1:05:17
  also just having Basic Instinct to constantly in my mind
• 1:05:22
  because, you know, technically this is a very well made film.
• 1:05:26
  I would say like it's very like luscious.
• 1:05:30
  The performances are good. I mean, is Michael Douglas good
• 1:05:34
  in this? I mean, he's he's a horrible
• 1:05:36
  person and a horrible character, but.
• 1:05:38
  Yeah, I'd say he's miscast, but not a bad actor.
• 1:05:42
  Yeah, maybe. I tell you some negatives.
• 1:05:47
  I think it's pacing. I think the pacing suffers a
• 1:05:50
  bit. I think, like it's a little bit.
• 1:05:52
  I know it's a noir and it's a murder mystery and so obviously
• 1:05:56
  lots of stuff is going to feel unrealistic, but it gets like a
• 1:05:58
  bit complicated and stupid even for that genre at some points I
• 1:06:01
  think. I also think as well like they
• 1:06:04
  they could have they could have explored some of the characters
• 1:06:08
  further. So like, if they are going to
• 1:06:10
  play with this idea that Beth maybe is the killer, like give
• 1:06:14
  her like more of a like a freak out moment where you you get a
• 1:06:18
  sense of danger from her that she maybe is this dangerous
• 1:06:21
  person. An interaction with Catherine
• 1:06:26
  might have been interesting as well.
• 1:06:27
  But instead, like you said, she's just this wet nothingness,
• 1:06:31
  which is just a real shame because you kind of want, if she
• 1:06:35
  is the killer, you want her to, you want to get a sense of why
• 1:06:38
  she's doing it rather than just like, oh, you know, well, to be
• 1:06:42
  fair, I've never fucked Sharon Stone.
• 1:06:44
  I've never fucked Catherine. And maybe she is the fuck of the
• 1:06:46
  sentry. And maybe, maybe that's all it
• 1:06:49
  is. Well, you know what they say
• 1:06:50
  about her. She's got that Magna cum laude
• 1:06:52
  pussy. It's done fried your brain.
• 1:06:57
  Exactly. And I've never, maybe I've never
• 1:06:59
  experienced that. So who am I to say?
• 1:07:00
  Maybe that's enough. Yeah, I would say I think my
• 1:07:04
  take away of this movie is that it's like well acted.
• 1:07:07
  It's well shot, It looks gorgeous.
• 1:07:11
  It's but it's like maybe a bit silly.
• 1:07:14
  Yeah, yeah. And so it's not like high art,
• 1:07:18
  but it's like well made trash. I think that's a really valid
• 1:07:22
  description. Yeah.
• 1:07:24
  And also, if you were just viewing, as I probably am
• 1:07:27
  viewing this film, it solely being around Sharon Stone, how
• 1:07:32
  many Merrills would you give her?
• 1:07:33
  Because I think she thinks she's absolutely fantastic in this
• 1:07:36
  film. Yeah, like, flawless
• 1:07:37
  performance. The fact she had no sway as an
• 1:07:40
  actor in Hollywood. She just got given the material
• 1:07:42
  and fucking chewed up the scenery.
• 1:07:44
  So for that, I'm going to give her 8 Merrills, her 8 Merrills.
• 1:07:47
  I'm giving her 8 Merrills. Sharon gets 8 Merrills.
• 1:07:51
  Yeah, I'd give her. Yeah, she can have 10.
• 1:07:53
  She can have, I have 10, I don't care.
• 1:07:54
  But the movie overall, I think I'm going to give it 5.
• 1:07:59
  Yeah, yeah, because it is just trash.
• 1:08:02
  It's like. Maybe 6?
• 1:08:04
  Maybe. Six, it's better yeah, I'm going
• 1:08:06
  to give it 6 as well because it it is just a load of nonsense,
• 1:08:10
  but just it's. Really.
• 1:08:11
  But it's like, yeah, it's gorgeous nonsense.
• 1:08:13
  It's gorgeous nonsense. Yeah.
• 1:08:15
  It's like feel like you don't get movies like this as much
• 1:08:19
  anymore. Well, I think it, I think it
• 1:08:21
  took like 14 years personally until we got Basic Instinct.
• 1:08:25
  Two that we. Really, really got what we
• 1:08:27
  needed. Yeah, well, what about camp?
• 1:08:32
  How many Lizers are we giving this movie?
• 1:08:38
  So let's go to the list. I think we have to go to the
• 1:08:41
  list. We have to go to the you're
• 1:08:42
  right, because it's and this, this is the problem with all of
• 1:08:45
  these fucking problematic films, because they can just suck the
• 1:08:48
  fun out of so much good stuff as well by the.
• 1:08:51
  Way. But we have never established
• 1:08:53
  really on this podcast. Where does the problematic stuff
• 1:08:56
  get subtracted from? Does it get subtracted from
• 1:08:58
  Merrill's or does it get subtracted from Lyses?
• 1:09:00
  Because sometimes I feel like I subtract it from 1 and sometimes
• 1:09:03
  I think I subtract it from another.
• 1:09:04
  You're right, I think ultimately we are incredibly problematic
• 1:09:08
  ourselves because we just pick and choose when something is
• 1:09:10
  problematic and when it's. When it's like, yeah, when to
• 1:09:15
  sweep that under the rug, it's fine.
• 1:09:16
  It's fine. It's.
• 1:09:17
  Fine. I think one thing that we've
• 1:09:18
  we've never found problematic is women killing men.
• 1:09:22
  But that's just. No, no, that's yeah, that's.
• 1:09:25
  Aspirational, aspirational. It's like valid.
• 1:09:29
  Kill them every single time. I don't think I've ever gone Oh,
• 1:09:31
  he didn't deserve it. Like I said at the beginning of
• 1:09:34
  the thing, I didn't know nothing about that former rock star, but
• 1:09:37
  I was glad that he was murdered so.
• 1:09:39
  You know, well, you know what Wendy Williams says.
• 1:09:42
  Death to all of them. So did this unlock queer joy?
• 1:09:53
  Buckets. Yeah, I, I buckets.
• 1:09:55
  I was literally wet watching this.
• 1:09:59
  Probably, you know, teenage me would have had a wank over this.
• 1:10:03
  And now I just, you know, I just was how do I put this?
• 1:10:08
  It was orgasming through queer joy.
• 1:10:10
  You were back arched, let back. Oh my God, for something.
• 1:10:15
  I was slamming in and then an ongoing legacy.
• 1:10:20
  Huge. Yeah, one of my favorite
• 1:10:23
  references of this, which isn't is Beyoncé references it and
• 1:10:28
  Ring the Alarm, doesn't she? Oh, I don't remember.
• 1:10:30
  She's dressed as Sharon Stone in that video and does kind of her
• 1:10:33
  whole videos based around that, which I think is kind of cool.
• 1:10:36
  Is it stupid? Yes.
• 1:10:38
  Yes, stupid fun. Has it informed queer pop
• 1:10:42
  culture? Yeah.
• 1:10:43
  Anti mainstream flop vibes. No, no, no.
• 1:10:48
  OK. One other thing I would say is
• 1:10:50
  that it does have an evil woman wearing a white power suit.
• 1:10:53
  Yes. And.
• 1:10:54
  So, you know, for whatever, whatever bonus points that
• 1:10:58
  gives. And I would now like to add in
• 1:11:00
  my I want to add her in for quiet luxury draping I.
• 1:11:05
  Think. An evil woman wearing quiet
• 1:11:07
  luxury draping I think needs to be a thing as well.
• 1:11:09
  Also it's just wild. On a very quick sub note, it's
• 1:11:13
  wild to see someone deemed like, one of the most beautiful stars
• 1:11:17
  in Hollywood. Like so natural looking as well.
• 1:11:20
  Yeah, it was just, yeah, she's just so gorgeous, isn't she?
• 1:11:23
  So gorgeous. Stunning.
• 1:11:25
  Yeah. It's a camp, camp, camp, camp,
• 1:11:26
  camp, camp, camp, camp. Well, is it the campus Basic
• 1:11:31
  Instinct film I've ever seen? I don't think it is.
• 1:11:34
  We haven't discussed it yet, I mean.
• 1:11:37
  I think I'm going to give it. I'm giving it nine.
• 1:11:40
  You're giving it 9. Bucket.
• 1:11:41
  OK Bucket, I'm giving it 9. I love this movie.
• 1:11:44
  I think it's so fun. I think it's will always be fun
• 1:11:47
  to watch. I hate the problematic stuff,
• 1:11:50
  but if Sharon Stone can own this movie, then I'm allowed to love
• 1:11:54
  it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:55
  And you're right. And if she has, if she's been
• 1:11:57
  able to go full circle on it. Yeah, totally.
• 1:12:00
  I yeah, I'm going to give it an 8.
• 1:12:01
  I'm going to give it an 8. OK.
• 1:12:03
  But really, that really is on Sharon Stone alone.
• 1:12:06
  She literally, I mean, much like Catwoman, she, you know, really,
• 1:12:12
  she really brings it to the forefront.
• 1:12:15
  That could also be in the same cinematic universe, frankly.
• 1:12:18
  Like I could totally see this character ending up.
• 1:12:21
  It's basic. Instinct 3 is Catwoman.
• 1:12:23
  Yeah, totally. Great, we did it.
• 1:12:30
  Well, what I want to know is what do we do now, Nick?
• 1:12:33
  I think we need to fuck like minx, raise Rugrats and live
• 1:12:37
  happily ever after. I hate Rugrats.
• 1:12:40
  Oh, cocaine. Three, yeah.
• 1:12:45
  Thank you so much. We'll be back in two more weeks
• 1:12:47
  with another Camp Classic. Goodbye.
• 1:12:50
  Get away from her, you bitch. Classic.
• 1:12:56
  He was in the Amazon the final when she was researching spiders
• 1:12:59
  right before she died. No, I thought you become a
• 1:13:07
  prostitute or a dog I used to love.
• 1:13:09
  Doggy chow I used. To love doggy chow too.