Latest / She Rises with Ashy & Tijana / 153. Grieving My Daughter: Suicide, Grief & Unimaginable Loss with Author Eslana Lower

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153. Grieving My Daughter: Suicide, Grief & Unimaginable Loss with Author Eslana Lower · She Rises with Ashy & Tijana

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Speaker 1: Apodjay production.
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Speaker 2: Trigger warning.
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Speaker 1: This episode today includes a deep, long conversation that covers grief,
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Speaker 1: loss of a child, bullying, and suicide.
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Speaker 3: It contains graphic descriptions of the series of events.
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Speaker 1: This may be triggering for anyone who's past trauma or
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Speaker 1: has experienced any of the above.
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Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.
0:30
Speaker 1: Welcome to the She Rises Podcast.
0:32
Speaker 2: I'm Ashy and I'm Tiana.
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Speaker 3: This podcast is about female empowerment and encouraging you to
0:37
Speaker 3: be your biggest, boldest, and most authentic version of yourself.
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Speaker 1: We help you shed the shame, grow to a new level.
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Speaker 4: We're gonna laugh, cry, and talk about the topics everyone
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Speaker 4: else is too afraid to talk about.
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Speaker 3: Get ready for your next level of self.
0:51
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome back to she Rises.
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Speaker 5: Today.
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Speaker 1: We have a really big episode with a very special
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Speaker 1: guest with a very special message and story that she's
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Speaker 1: going to be sharing with us today. Grab your box
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Speaker 1: of tissues. Yeah, but Esmana, thank you so much for
1:04
Speaker 1: coming on the pot CAUs today.
1:05
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
1:06
Speaker 4: I'm so excited to really appreciate your time and your
1:10
Speaker 4: bravery and your honesty and your vulnerability and sharing your
1:13
Speaker 4: story and your daughter Riley's story, So we'd love to
1:16
Speaker 4: get straight into it and tell a little bit about yourself,
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Speaker 4: and then we'd love to hear who Riley was and
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Speaker 4: her story.
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Speaker 2: I was born and bred on the Gold Coast. I'm
1:24
Speaker 2: a mother of four. I have a son that I
1:27
Speaker 2: had quite young at twenty so he's twenty three now.
1:29
Speaker 2: And then I had three girls, and Riley was the
1:31
Speaker 2: oldest of them and was a nurse and a midwife.
1:34
Speaker 2: A nurse for twenty years, I've been a midwife, and yeah,
1:37
Speaker 2: just I was going through a divorce at the time
1:40
Speaker 2: and that's why I was living in a high rise.
1:42
Speaker 2: And Riley just sum her up. I always described her
1:46
Speaker 2: when she was little as our honeymoon love person a
1:48
Speaker 2: fighters Riley. She was just all of that love and
1:52
Speaker 2: intensity that we had for each other, just in this person,
1:55
Speaker 2: and people called us Smiley Riley. From the time she
1:57
Speaker 2: could walk. She was just this soul and presence and
2:02
Speaker 2: I would describe her as the kindest kid you've ever met,
2:04
Speaker 2: and seemingly future oriented. Wanted to be a doctor or
2:07
Speaker 2: a vet. And yeah, just no real warning that preempted
2:14
Speaker 2: her suicide or the loss of her We didn't know
2:17
Speaker 2: that she was being groomed by her twenty one year
2:19
Speaker 2: old lesbian supervisor, who had her convinced that she was by.
2:23
Speaker 2: And I say convinced because throughout their growing up, I
2:26
Speaker 2: had regular check ins with the girls. I was always
2:28
Speaker 2: a big advocate for those conversations being comfortable about so
2:32
Speaker 2: that I was a safe space for the sexuality to
2:35
Speaker 2: land wherever that may have been. And Riley was just
2:38
Speaker 2: as passionate because we kind of thought for a little
2:41
Speaker 2: bit there maybe one of her sisters might have ended
2:43
Speaker 2: up with a wife, and so she was just as
2:45
Speaker 2: big on making the conversations comfortable and honest. And when
2:48
Speaker 2: I would check in and say do you think you
2:49
Speaker 2: have a girlfriend or a boyfriend when you're older, she
2:51
Speaker 2: would always just smile at me and be like, just
2:53
Speaker 2: a boyfriend, mum. And so that's why I say convinced
2:55
Speaker 2: that she was by, because I don't believe that if
2:58
Speaker 2: it was a normal situation, because we're talking about an adult,
3:02
Speaker 2: we're talking about grooming behaviors. If it was had happened organically,
3:06
Speaker 2: then I'd be like, oh, she gave out to her
3:08
Speaker 2: friends as by. But given that back history, that's why
3:11
Speaker 2: I say it that way. And then she had come
3:13
Speaker 2: out to her friend group as bisexual, and somebody who
3:16
Speaker 2: was closest to her was using Snapchat, which really wasn't allowed,
3:19
Speaker 2: but she was downloading it on the way to school
3:21
Speaker 2: and deleting it on the way home to bully her
3:23
Speaker 2: and say things like, no one, do you want to
3:24
Speaker 2: kill yourself? You should just do it. There's no place
3:26
Speaker 2: in the world for people like you, because she said
3:28
Speaker 2: she liked girls and boys. And then my understanding is
3:33
Speaker 2: that the person, the supervisor, had finally rejected her because
3:36
Speaker 2: they've been toying with her that morning, and that when
3:40
Speaker 2: she'd gone to school to talk to the person, they'd
3:43
Speaker 2: gone even worse in person. And so she'd come home
3:46
Speaker 2: and we were just having the best night that we've
3:49
Speaker 2: ever had. And somebody had said to me in those
3:51
Speaker 2: early days, maybe she'd already decided she was going to
3:53
Speaker 2: do it, and I wasn't ready to hear that, but
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Speaker 2: I potentially, and then what happened that night just expediated it.
4:00
Speaker 2: I had asked for her phone to add her to
4:02
Speaker 2: the three sixty app because she'd been dishonest about where
4:04
Speaker 2: she was night before, which was so out of character
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Speaker 2: to lie at all, but it turns out she just
4:09
Speaker 2: stayed back at work to be around this person in
4:10
Speaker 2: the lost track of time, and so her dad had
4:13
Speaker 2: her on the three sixty app. He never goes away
4:15
Speaker 2: for work, but he was in Sydney that night for
4:17
Speaker 2: the beginning of consultancy stuff. And I said to me
4:21
Speaker 2: your phone, and she took a long time to give
4:23
Speaker 2: it to me. She was in the toilet, she said,
4:24
Speaker 2: But it turns out that she was actually deleting the
4:26
Speaker 2: messages of the boss rejecting it. She gave me a phone,
4:30
Speaker 2: but she was really cagy that I hadn't kind of
4:32
Speaker 2: like talking to her sister, but keeping an eye on me.
4:34
Speaker 2: And then I had asked the girls before she came
4:38
Speaker 2: home for her phone. And I was trying to do
4:40
Speaker 2: something and it wouldn't work, and I said, why is
4:42
Speaker 2: your settings or whatever? It was nothing. She goes, well,
4:44
Speaker 2: that's not my settings, that's a widget. And I just
4:46
Speaker 2: got chills, and I was like, why do you have widgets?
4:50
Speaker 2: And sorry, I'll tell you. I said they're for lies
4:53
Speaker 2: and cheetahs. Dale, why do you have this? And she
4:55
Speaker 2: goes really said I would want it. I said, Raally
4:57
Speaker 2: has widgets and she goes, yeah, So widgets are essentially
4:59
Speaker 2: they look like your settings or whatever, because that's where
5:03
Speaker 2: the person will hide their tinder proof followed their dick
5:05
Speaker 2: pics or their whatever, so that when you're looking through
5:08
Speaker 2: their phone as their partner, you're not suspecting anything. So
5:11
Speaker 2: I've got chills because I had my suspicion that she
5:14
Speaker 2: had Snapchat, and I had looked through her phone one
5:17
Speaker 2: day when she was acting out a character and she
5:19
Speaker 2: kind of was a bit sassy with her hand on
5:21
Speaker 2: her him. And I have to clarify that Raley was
5:24
Speaker 2: not your typical teenager. Yeah, she was fifteen, she'd only
5:26
Speaker 2: not long got her period. She had a period that night,
5:29
Speaker 2: so it was really messing with her hormonally. But she
5:32
Speaker 2: was just such a beautiful, seemingly well adjusted kid. And
5:36
Speaker 2: I said, do you think that she has Snapchat? And
5:38
Speaker 2: the girls are like here, mum, and I said, how
5:41
Speaker 2: can I figure that out? And they said, well, if
5:42
Speaker 2: you go to her settings in her list of apps,
5:45
Speaker 2: you can't hide it there. So I'm like okay. And
5:48
Speaker 2: I'd seen Raley and she said, oh, should I bring home,
5:50
Speaker 2: you know, food after work? And I said, yeah, but
5:52
Speaker 2: don't mess with me like I'm home one time this time,
5:54
Speaker 2: and she smiled and she's so she's come home and
5:56
Speaker 2: we were just having the best night. And then I
5:58
Speaker 2: added her to the three sixty and then I swiped
6:00
Speaker 2: up and over, not really thinking, but she's just been
6:03
Speaker 2: in the toilet on her messages, so it looks to
6:05
Speaker 2: her like I'm going to her messages. And I don't
6:08
Speaker 2: know how I thought that was going to get me
6:09
Speaker 2: to settings, but she just launched at me. We don't
6:12
Speaker 2: put her hands on each other. Everything in my parenting
6:15
Speaker 2: was about conscious parenting and coming from a place of
6:18
Speaker 2: kindness and love, and even the night before when she
6:21
Speaker 2: expected to be in trouble, she came home and I
6:23
Speaker 2: went into the room and I gave her a bag
6:25
Speaker 2: and I said, Darling, there's some chocolate in there because
6:27
Speaker 2: you said you had your period. There's bras because it's
6:29
Speaker 2: not daddy's job to buy them for you, and some
6:32
Speaker 2: Christmas pajamas matching me and the girls. And I walked
6:34
Speaker 2: out and she came out just crying and she's like,
6:36
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, mum, And I said that I'm not
6:41
Speaker 2: trying to block your thunder and I'm just trying to
6:43
Speaker 2: keep you safe. I'm just trying to get you to adulthood. Okay,
6:46
Speaker 2: a lot of bad stuff happened to me in my life,
6:48
Speaker 2: and I'm just trying to keep you safe and I
6:50
Speaker 2: just love you. And I stood there and I told
6:53
Speaker 2: her how much I loved her, and that I know
6:55
Speaker 2: that until she holds her own baby, she'll probably never
6:58
Speaker 2: really understand how much I love her. And I just
7:00
Speaker 2: kept telling her how much she meant to me and
7:02
Speaker 2: how much I loved her, and she hugged me for
7:05
Speaker 2: the longest time and told me how much she loved me.
7:07
Speaker 2: And that was our last proper conversation the night before.
7:10
Speaker 2: So when she came, she just launched at me and
7:13
Speaker 2: like knocked the phone out of my hand, and I've
7:15
Speaker 2: stumbled forward and I've kind of run to get away
7:17
Speaker 2: from her, and I'm on because she was tackling me
7:20
Speaker 2: for this phone. And I got to the other side
7:22
Speaker 2: of the table and I said to her, done, look
7:24
Speaker 2: at me. I'm shaking. I said, nothing is worth this.
7:27
Speaker 2: Whatever it is, like, we can face it together. I said,
7:29
Speaker 2: I don't even need to look in your phone, just
7:31
Speaker 2: talk to me. But there's some things in there I
7:33
Speaker 2: know about, some things I don't know about. But this
7:35
Speaker 2: is happening, and her little shoulder shrugged like she was
7:38
Speaker 2: going to talk to me, and then it was like
7:40
Speaker 2: a psychotic break. Her face changed, she jumped the table.
7:43
Speaker 2: She had me by the hair. I'm screaming me or
7:46
Speaker 2: me and get it off me. Her youngest, who is
7:49
Speaker 2: never quick to cry, was sobbing, Mom, Mum, what's wrong
7:52
Speaker 2: with Raley? What do I do? Do I call Daddy?
7:54
Speaker 2: And then Mia pulled her off. She had me on
7:57
Speaker 2: the ground, she had she was like she was possessed
8:00
Speaker 2: to get this phone, and MIA's pulled her off me.
8:02
Speaker 2: And I've run to the bathroom because it's the only
8:04
Speaker 2: door that would in my apartment. And as I pulled
8:07
Speaker 2: the door shut, I saw her face change and I
8:09
Speaker 2: could not have looked in her phone if I wanted to.
8:11
Speaker 2: I was shaking so much. And so I've wrung her dad.
8:14
Speaker 2: And it was later in Sydney, with the intention of
8:16
Speaker 2: saying something's wrong with Raley, but I heard what I
8:18
Speaker 2: thought was a car accident. She had paced from me
8:21
Speaker 2: in the bathroom out to the balcony like this with
8:23
Speaker 2: her hands on her head, and her sister, who was
8:25
Speaker 2: coming towards me in the bathroom, went I'll check on Raleigh.
8:28
Speaker 2: And as her dad's picked up, all he's heard is
8:31
Speaker 2: me a screamed Mum, she's gone, and me say, what
8:33
Speaker 2: do you mean she's gone? What do you mean? She
8:36
Speaker 2: was on the balcony.
8:37
Speaker 5: She's gone. And we were thirty three stories in the air.
8:40
Speaker 5: It took me a month to go near those windows
8:42
Speaker 5: because I couldn't handle the heights. And she just paced
8:45
Speaker 5: out and just threw herself off, and.
8:47
Speaker 2: I I heard what I thought was an accident, a
8:54
Speaker 2: car accident, but it was her hitting the glass of
8:57
Speaker 2: the turning circle, and I thought if somebody jumped, cars
9:00
Speaker 2: would stop. It's the night before schoolies in the center
9:03
Speaker 2: of surface and no cars have stopped. The girls are crying.
9:06
Speaker 2: He's screaming in my ear. I'm trying to make sense
9:09
Speaker 2: out of it. We're so high. It doesn't make sense
9:11
Speaker 2: because I didn't know until I talked to the police,
9:13
Speaker 2: like when you jump, you don't go out. The building
9:15
Speaker 2: sucks you in. So what I was looking at is
9:16
Speaker 2: them too close to the building. It wasn't making sense.
9:19
Speaker 2: I was like, she has to be on the next
9:20
Speaker 2: balcony somehow. She's checked the room girls and they're like, Mom,
9:23
Speaker 2: she didn't go in the room, and then in the
9:25
Speaker 2: end it broke me. I was looking behind sheer curtains
9:28
Speaker 2: and under a tiny footstool, like just hoping that this
9:31
Speaker 2: was some terrible joke, that she would be in trouble for,
9:33
Speaker 2: you know. Then he's saying to me, you've got to
9:36
Speaker 2: go down is don't take the girls, whatever you do.
9:38
Speaker 2: I couldn't get a hold of security, but somebody was
9:40
Speaker 2: walking out onto their balcony on the third story and
9:42
Speaker 2: saw her, so they had already called security and the
9:44
Speaker 2: police were already on site. I remember just having to
9:47
Speaker 2: pull the girls off me and go, please just stay here,
9:50
Speaker 2: stay here. And I got in the lift, and it's
9:53
Speaker 2: a feeling I will never forget. It's like my brain
9:55
Speaker 2: wrapped itself in cotton wool physical feeling and just went
9:59
Speaker 2: embrace yourself because what you're about to experience or kill you.
10:02
Speaker 2: And as I came through the foyer, can't get into
10:06
Speaker 2: the building without a fob, so the police were out there,
10:08
Speaker 2: and there's just shattered glass everywhere and she's laying in it,
10:11
Speaker 2: and I must have screamed because he grabbed me, and
10:15
Speaker 2: I remember saying I couldn't look at him I said,
10:17
Speaker 2: is she gone? And he was like, yeah, done, And
10:19
Speaker 2: I kicked this man off me and I just had
10:21
Speaker 2: my Christmas pajamas on, no unders. Just ran through this glass,
10:26
Speaker 2: screaming this horrific sound. Just threw myself on my knees
10:29
Speaker 2: at her side, trying to hold her hand. And I
10:31
Speaker 2: don't know how, the police don't know how, but the
10:34
Speaker 2: glass breaking her fall meant that she looked like she
10:38
Speaker 2: was laying peacefully, face down with her hands up around
10:40
Speaker 2: her head. Her foot was cut off. I didn't realize
10:43
Speaker 2: that till later, like no blood. I went back to
10:45
Speaker 2: the police later to say, I'm not losing my mind,
10:47
Speaker 2: am I. I'm not gonna start having flashbacks. And he
10:49
Speaker 2: was like, I don't know how she was so contained,
10:52
Speaker 2: but had she been splattered everywhere, I would have looked
10:54
Speaker 2: for the next truck and run in front of her.
10:56
Speaker 2: And so they're screaming at me the glass of glass,
10:58
Speaker 2: and I'm just screaming. And I've done a lot of
11:02
Speaker 2: years in emergency and the sound that left my body
11:04
Speaker 2: that night is the same sound that I've heard too
11:06
Speaker 2: many times, and same time that every parent makes when
11:08
Speaker 2: they find out the child's gone. And I just couldn't stop.
11:11
Speaker 2: So then the policeman was holding me down and they're
11:14
Speaker 2: trying to talk to me and say what's your name?
11:16
Speaker 2: And I said, and what's her name? And Raley Low
11:19
Speaker 2: And then they're asking me what's her day to birth?
11:22
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, what's today's day? That's all
11:24
Speaker 2: that matters, like, and he said the seventeenth, Darling. I
11:27
Speaker 2: was like, the seventeenth September. It was November. My brain broke.
11:31
Speaker 2: And then they're like, what's the date of birth? I
11:33
Speaker 2: said the first of the fifth, and then I was like,
11:35
Speaker 2: I don't fucking know, like fifteen years ago, you work
11:38
Speaker 2: it out, and they're like, who's kai? And then they
11:42
Speaker 2: had to hold my face id up to just open
11:44
Speaker 2: my phone because I couldn't even get into it. And
11:46
Speaker 2: then the next call he got was from a police
11:49
Speaker 2: officer he couldn't hear because of my screams, which just
11:52
Speaker 2: solidified that she was gone. I'm so sorry. So life
11:57
Speaker 2: is a lot, a lot, but my parents should ever
12:00
Speaker 2: ever have to endure. I remember even as we plan
12:03
Speaker 2: the celebration of like for catching up with a girlfriend,
12:07
Speaker 2: like a week or two later, and she took me
12:10
Speaker 2: to soak bath house and I was talking to her
12:12
Speaker 2: about this and we hadn't seen each other in a
12:13
Speaker 2: long time, and I said what I've just said, and
12:16
Speaker 2: how grateful I was that she looked peaceful, and she
12:18
Speaker 2: was like, yes, if you're talking about things that you're
12:21
Speaker 2: grateful for, like, I think you're going to be all right.
12:26
Speaker 2: And she couldn't have been more true. All right.
12:30
Speaker 5: And I'm so grateful to have been her mom, to
12:34
Speaker 5: be her mom. I'm so grateful to still be alive.
12:38
Speaker 5: I'm so grateful for all of the people in my
12:42
Speaker 5: life and the courage that I've had to say yes
12:45
Speaker 5: to life and actually say yes to grief.
12:48
Speaker 2: I didn't know that's what I was doing, but I
12:50
Speaker 2: talk about it in my book I'm in the early Days.
12:53
Speaker 2: It's such a powerful thing. Sorry, I was gonna say,
12:56
Speaker 2: I don't know if you explicitly, I'm like, that's gonna
13:07
Speaker 2: But I'm so grateful to be alive. I'm so grateful
13:12
Speaker 2: for everything and at least a good year into my
13:15
Speaker 2: grief journey. So many people would hear me tell that story,
13:18
Speaker 2: and because I guess I kind of I'm realizing now
13:21
Speaker 2: that I'm working with a neurofeedback brain mapping lady to
13:24
Speaker 2: heal the trauma responses in my brain, which is phenomenal
13:28
Speaker 2: because she's doing it with red light therapy and neurofeedback,
13:31
Speaker 2: which means you don't have to talk about your trauma.
13:34
Speaker 2: She can just heal it. When I started going to her,
13:37
Speaker 2: I obviously wasn't sleeping and not without tablets, and I've
13:40
Speaker 2: started having panic attacks and we're nearly at the three
13:43
Speaker 2: year mark and she's like, oh, we'll fix all that dulling.
13:46
Speaker 2: And I'm like five weeks into the streament I sleep
13:48
Speaker 2: at whatever time I choose to sleep, no tablet, no
13:50
Speaker 2: panic attacks, like everything. My hormones have balanced all of
13:54
Speaker 2: this amazing stuff. But I think all of that healing
13:57
Speaker 2: is showing me is that to a degree I had
13:59
Speaker 2: disassociated and I think our brain and our soul is
14:02
Speaker 2: so fucking powerful and so wise in protecting us and
14:06
Speaker 2: keeping us alive, that my inner wisdom went dulling. You
14:09
Speaker 2: can't have all of this. To truly experience the fullness
14:13
Speaker 2: of this would destroy you. It would destroy us mentally.
14:16
Speaker 2: I would have taken my life. Yeah, one hundred percent.
14:19
Speaker 2: And I one hundred percent understand why people choose drugs
14:21
Speaker 2: or alcohol or even suicide I would say to him
14:24
Speaker 2: in the early days, I can't kill myself because she
14:26
Speaker 2: fucking did it. I can't do that to the girls.
14:28
Speaker 2: That's the only reason I'm still here, not because I
14:30
Speaker 2: not capable of it or wouldn't do that. Yeah, it
14:33
Speaker 2: wouldn't even make jokes about you know, if you want
14:35
Speaker 2: to make us all a soup, like a fully understand
14:37
Speaker 2: what of suicide? And that's a dark conversation to have,
14:39
Speaker 2: but I get it. It's a very dark conversation. But
14:42
Speaker 2: if anyone can have it, I can. Is not the
14:44
Speaker 2: selfishness we think it is. It's the degree of unimaginable
14:49
Speaker 2: pain and agony that you don't feel you can survive,
14:51
Speaker 2: but you also do want to add to the harm
14:53
Speaker 2: of your children. And he was like, you got to
14:55
Speaker 2: stop saying this, and I was kind of making jokes.
14:57
Speaker 2: I was like, so, no soup tonight, Like we're not.
15:00
Speaker 2: It was thinking, in this life, we're doing this. But
15:04
Speaker 2: the compassion that I have four people, because it is
15:07
Speaker 2: the choices are You've got to claw your way back
15:11
Speaker 2: out of hell every fucking day, not knowing if or
15:14
Speaker 2: when it's going to get easier. Oh, you numb it
15:17
Speaker 2: because those who can't do either of those things. Leave
15:19
Speaker 2: this life. Yeah, and I understand that, and I've sat
15:23
Speaker 2: in the darkness and even more recently as we've been
15:25
Speaker 2: doing this healing through the therapy. What happened is because
15:29
Speaker 2: I said to her, why am I in this dark hole?
15:31
Speaker 2: Like I sat in the darkness with my hand on
15:33
Speaker 2: the door knob of life through which most people will
15:35
Speaker 2: exit this life, and the full realness and gravity of
15:38
Speaker 2: that suicidal ideation, and very vocal about it, saying that
15:42
Speaker 2: I was in this darkness, but that I will never
15:44
Speaker 2: hurt myself because I love my life and I will
15:46
Speaker 2: never know that about myself. I'm too vocal to get
15:49
Speaker 2: to the point of isolation that unravels me and cost
15:52
Speaker 2: me my life. And I think that what that showed
15:54
Speaker 2: me is that we could be doing better to bring
15:57
Speaker 2: conversations about the darkness into the light. Because when you're
16:00
Speaker 2: in that dark room and convinced that the only out
16:04
Speaker 2: of this pain is through this door, or that you're
16:06
Speaker 2: so numb that you're going to exit this life, we
16:09
Speaker 2: end up there or exacerbating that through isolation because we
16:13
Speaker 2: don't want our sadness to affect others, or we don't
16:15
Speaker 2: think other people will understand, and so we suffer in
16:19
Speaker 2: silence or self isolate or both. And then when you're
16:22
Speaker 2: in that darkness, if we just called out and said,
16:26
Speaker 2: if there's anyone else here, can you turn the fucking
16:28
Speaker 2: light on? Somebody would flick the light on and you
16:30
Speaker 2: would see there was more people than you could imagine
16:34
Speaker 2: in that dark place, feeling isolated alone convince themselves that
16:37
Speaker 2: I have to exit this life because no one's going
16:39
Speaker 2: to understand this. And then you're like, bitch, all these
16:42
Speaker 2: people understand. And I don't think that it's misery loves company.
16:46
Speaker 2: I think it's a matter of misery needs company. You
16:48
Speaker 2: need the right company when you're in that dark place,
16:51
Speaker 2: because it's saying yes to life. It's putting yourself around
16:53
Speaker 2: the right people. And I made sure through that dark
16:56
Speaker 2: period that I've just had, which ironically came since writing
16:59
Speaker 2: the book that I did, I kept saying yes to life.
17:01
Speaker 2: I kept putting myself in the right social situations. And
17:04
Speaker 2: I wouldn't feel like going, but I go to trivia
17:06
Speaker 2: on a Tuesday night, and I could easily convince myself
17:09
Speaker 2: or you why I shouldn't go. I don't want my
17:10
Speaker 2: sadness to affect others. I don't have the social battery
17:13
Speaker 2: for it right now. Anyone would accept and believe that
17:15
Speaker 2: because my child died and they can't imagine surviving that,
17:17
Speaker 2: so they don't want to do all say the wrong thing.
17:19
Speaker 2: So we think we're being supportive, but in reality, by
17:22
Speaker 2: me showing up, I would have a great night. My
17:25
Speaker 2: face would hurt from smiling. It would be the interaction
17:27
Speaker 2: that lists my head back above water when I was
17:29
Speaker 2: convinced I was gonna drown, And it's so powerful, and
17:32
Speaker 2: I think saying yes to life is such a big one,
17:35
Speaker 2: especially in grief. But when I said to the counselor therapist, lady,
17:40
Speaker 2: what's going on? Like it's three weeks in this dark play?
17:43
Speaker 2: Why can't I pull myself out? And she said, do
17:46
Speaker 2: you feel like the healing's happening too fast? I was like,
17:48
Speaker 2: too fast? But three weeks like I have been to
17:51
Speaker 2: Helen back before Riley died, and I would pull myself
17:53
Speaker 2: out of the darkest experiences in life. I just pulled
17:56
Speaker 2: myself out. Why can't I do it? She said, Darling,
17:58
Speaker 2: that was survival, this is healing, and it did. It
18:01
Speaker 2: felt like the same in a wisdom that you to
18:04
Speaker 2: wrap myra and cotton wool and protect my soul from
18:07
Speaker 2: the full gravity of it. Then went, okay, blindfold's gone, Darling.
18:11
Speaker 2: Now you can have it all. And it coincided with
18:13
Speaker 2: me getting my author's copy. I had to check it
18:15
Speaker 2: for mistakes, so I read it in one night. Don't recommend,
18:20
Speaker 2: which is fine. The book itself is beautiful. I've been
18:22
Speaker 2: able to look back at it since, but it was
18:24
Speaker 2: just a lot because it was coinciding with the blind
18:26
Speaker 2: fold going away and having to integrate the full gravity
18:29
Speaker 2: of everything. But I'm happy to say that I'm like
18:32
Speaker 2: six weeks into that process with the healer, and probably
18:37
Speaker 2: four weeks post that, and now I can look back
18:40
Speaker 2: and go, oh my god, She's right when she said, Darling,
18:43
Speaker 2: you just achieved what takes years of traditional therapy for
18:47
Speaker 2: others as far as healing.
18:48
Speaker 5: Wow.
18:49
Speaker 2: And I'm sleeping without tablets. That is mind blowing. I'm
18:53
Speaker 2: not having panic attacks. I wouldn't have been here sitting here.
18:57
Speaker 2: But I also wouldn't be saying that as I sit
18:59
Speaker 2: here if I didn't say yes to life, because it's
19:02
Speaker 2: by putting yourself in rooms you wouldn't otherwise that you
19:06
Speaker 2: create and facilitate connections that you didn't know were possible
19:09
Speaker 2: because I would say yes to whatever. I would turn
19:12
Speaker 2: up to things I didn't even know what I was
19:13
Speaker 2: turning out, what's the thing I want? Networking thing? And
19:17
Speaker 2: then meet these amazing people and be like, holy shit.
19:21
Speaker 2: Look and you know, I keep saying I'm manifesting like
19:24
Speaker 2: a superhero. You say that you want this, this, and this,
19:26
Speaker 2: and that's what I'm dating the universe and it spoils me.
19:29
Speaker 6: And I highly recommend not on a budget.
19:33
Speaker 2: And it's great because I just put it out there
19:37
Speaker 2: and it kind of started as a bit of an
19:39
Speaker 2: experiment and then it became like a religious practice. And
19:41
Speaker 2: now I'm like, it's just me. Now I'm married to me.
19:45
Speaker 2: You are going anywhere. Brother, I'm so good and so
19:53
Speaker 2: it's just fun. And I don't need to know where
19:56
Speaker 2: whatever it is is coming from. I just need to
19:58
Speaker 2: be willing to say yes to that, because I truly
20:00
Speaker 2: believe that everything that you desire that's not currently in
20:02
Speaker 2: your life is on the other side of a doorway
20:04
Speaker 2: you'll yet to walk through. And how often do we
20:06
Speaker 2: say I want this, this and this, and then life
20:07
Speaker 2: starts opening doors and we're like, no, thank you. Yeah.
20:10
Speaker 2: And that's why in May, at my registration period, I
20:19
Speaker 2: made the decision to walk away from my nursing in
20:21
Speaker 2: Midwiofree because it wasn't serving all the things I was
20:23
Speaker 2: telling the universe I wanted. And it's so funny because
20:27
Speaker 2: I was writing the book Resilience after Great Last learning
20:30
Speaker 2: to live in griefs simultaneously, and then I've never had
20:33
Speaker 2: to live and grief simultaneously as much as I have
20:36
Speaker 2: in the last month and a half. But again, I
20:39
Speaker 2: don't know if there's anything that's much more valuable than
20:42
Speaker 2: first hand empathy. And what I mean by that is
20:45
Speaker 2: I was twenty when I had my son. I was
20:47
Speaker 2: in a DV relationship, scared shitless of pushing a baby
20:50
Speaker 2: out of my vagina. And when I went in and
20:52
Speaker 2: I was doing it very unsupported, the midwife is going,
20:55
Speaker 2: come on, you can do it, and I didn't want
20:57
Speaker 2: to push in it hurt and I said have you
20:59
Speaker 2: done that? And she goes what And I was like,
21:01
Speaker 2: have you pushed a baby out of your vagina? Of
21:03
Speaker 2: tears rolling down my face, I said, because don't you
21:04
Speaker 2: fuck I can tell me I can do it if
21:06
Speaker 2: you haven't done it. I didn't want it. I didn't
21:08
Speaker 2: want someone telling me I could do something if they
21:10
Speaker 2: hadn't walked in my shoes, because I'm not going to
21:12
Speaker 2: believe you. And even if you've seen it a million times,
21:15
Speaker 2: I want to know that you did it, because get
21:17
Speaker 2: me a cheerleader that's done it. And it doesn't mean
21:20
Speaker 2: that you can't have beautiful midwives. I know because I'm
21:23
Speaker 2: a midwife, and I saw people come through that hadn't
21:25
Speaker 2: had kids and they were amazing at it. But for me,
21:28
Speaker 2: as somebody who's done the challenging, hard yards of whatever
21:31
Speaker 2: it is in life, I fully appreciate the power of
21:34
Speaker 2: person and empathy. So while I was sitting in that
21:36
Speaker 2: dark place that went on longer than I wanted it to,
21:39
Speaker 2: and the true gravity of feeling when people say if
21:43
Speaker 2: I wanted to end my life, it would be easy,
21:45
Speaker 2: I sat there. I sat there with the kids on
21:48
Speaker 2: a protective mechanism anymore. And I'd gone for drinks to
21:50
Speaker 2: celebrate my book, and I realized I had no feel
21:53
Speaker 2: good hormones, too deplete. I shouldn't have drunk. I didn't
21:55
Speaker 2: drink to excess, But I also sat with imagine if
21:58
Speaker 2: I had a tendency to two drugs or alcohol. I
22:00
Speaker 2: would have followed through on that, and that's not how
22:02
Speaker 2: I felt, and in the light of day, it's not
22:04
Speaker 2: how I feel. So there's a lot of people who
22:06
Speaker 2: get themselves isolated, unravel themselves, or add drugs or alcohol
22:11
Speaker 2: and maybe act on something that in the light of day,
22:13
Speaker 2: with good support, I almost guarantee that wouldn't be how
22:16
Speaker 2: you felt. So you've convinced yourself that you're alone in
22:19
Speaker 2: your suffering, and our circle matters so much. And it's
22:22
Speaker 2: such a powerful investment to make now before life comes
22:26
Speaker 2: for you. Because if you're listening to this and you're like, wow,
22:29
Speaker 2: that's horrific, and no, I too hope that your grief
22:33
Speaker 2: and loss never ever looks anything like mine. But I
22:35
Speaker 2: promise you grief and loss is going to come for you,
22:37
Speaker 2: because it's part of our contractual agreement with this life
22:40
Speaker 2: is that I get to be here and have love
22:42
Speaker 2: and passion and adventure, but I will experience grief and
22:45
Speaker 2: sadness at the absence of loss of the things or
22:49
Speaker 2: the people that I loved and held nearest and dearest.
22:52
Speaker 2: So if we realize that and we can't deny it,
22:55
Speaker 2: then we've just acknowledged the fact that life is going
22:58
Speaker 2: to come for us, not like me, not like this.
23:01
Speaker 2: It doesn't need to be like this, because you could
23:02
Speaker 2: be somebody who had a beautiful childhood, no trauma. I
23:05
Speaker 2: don't know where these people live.
23:09
Speaker 6: No trauma, amazing parents, well adjusted, and I'm like, life
23:17
Speaker 6: is going to come for you.
23:20
Speaker 2: Let's say you had everything is amazing. Then when you
23:23
Speaker 2: lose those amazing parents who set you up, and even
23:26
Speaker 2: if they live a healthy life, and you lose them
23:28
Speaker 2: later at life, which is totally foreseeable, and you have
23:31
Speaker 2: the privilege of say illness that warns you or whatever
23:33
Speaker 2: it is. And I use the word privilege because I
23:36
Speaker 2: don't mean it's a privilege to be sick, but the
23:38
Speaker 2: warning when it comes with it is a privilege that
23:41
Speaker 2: we underestimate. Then what I'm watching is these people who
23:44
Speaker 2: are saying their forties losing their adult parents and being
23:48
Speaker 2: so rocked, so unable to cope with the loss. And
23:51
Speaker 2: I get it, because when I look at that kind
23:53
Speaker 2: of relationship, then you've got this. But I wanted my
23:55
Speaker 2: kids to experience that, you know, So there's nobody, nobody,
23:59
Speaker 2: not even these unicorns who had a great childhood and
24:01
Speaker 2: an amazing lime there's going to get out of life
24:04
Speaker 2: scott free. Yeah, life will come for us. So if
24:07
Speaker 2: we know that, then there is actually the capacity that
24:10
Speaker 2: we have and hopefully preemptively before our grief and loss,
24:15
Speaker 2: to set ourselves up to be able to navigate it
24:17
Speaker 2: in a way that's kinder and softer. And it doesn't
24:20
Speaker 2: mean kind and soft, because the storms of life wouldn't
24:22
Speaker 2: be storms if they were kind and soft. Yeah, but
24:25
Speaker 2: I would, and I talk about it in my book
24:27
Speaker 2: using gratitude like an insurance policy because you ensure your car. Yeah,
24:32
Speaker 2: we don't want to. We don't want to pay them
24:34
Speaker 2: the insurance because fuck them. And the home is that
24:37
Speaker 2: I own my car across the lifespan and I never
24:40
Speaker 2: have to make a claim, So then I resent the payment.
24:42
Speaker 2: But the reality is if you did have to make
24:44
Speaker 2: it claim, you'd be so grateful that you did have
24:47
Speaker 2: it because it softens the blow. It maybe provides an
24:50
Speaker 2: alternative car, or your car gets sorted or whatever it is.
24:53
Speaker 2: But we acknowledge just by ownership, I predispose myself to risk.
24:56
Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean driving. It could be in your driveway,
24:59
Speaker 2: it could be hail it could be theft, it could
25:01
Speaker 2: be anything. We acknowledge that the ownership alone predisposed me
25:05
Speaker 2: to risk that would make me potentially uncomfortable in life.
25:08
Speaker 2: So I'm going to ensure myself to soften the blow
25:10
Speaker 2: of any potential discomfort. And we do it. We might
25:13
Speaker 2: resent it, but we do it, and then we go
25:15
Speaker 2: la la la. Life's not going to come for me
25:18
Speaker 2: like and I did. I was a bit of a dick.
25:20
Speaker 2: I thought I wasn't trying to be a dick, but
25:21
Speaker 2: I thought by staying on the right side of the
25:24
Speaker 2: health line as far as being a healthcare professional, that
25:27
Speaker 2: I would be kind of immune. I would help you
25:30
Speaker 2: guys through your grief and loss and trauma and all
25:33
Speaker 2: of these things that really did traumatize me being in
25:36
Speaker 2: the healthcare industry for twenty years. But you do. You
25:39
Speaker 2: just kind of think. But I'm watching it every day,
25:42
Speaker 2: but it's not going to.
25:42
Speaker 3: Happen to me, like I'm a damn good smaritan.
25:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing good. It's not even that you're
25:49
Speaker 2: out there with this massive ego going fuck you life.
25:52
Speaker 2: You don't get me, miss me. It's just a naivet.
25:56
Speaker 2: We don't give it thought that's the problem. We think
25:58
Speaker 2: it's all this bad shit is going to happen to
26:00
Speaker 2: somebody else. There's like this invincible energy.
26:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, a little bit.
26:04
Speaker 2: Like oh no, just like if we brought conversations around
26:06
Speaker 2: the darkness into the light, we could be doing better
26:08
Speaker 2: to save lives. Because I don't know if I mentioned before,
26:11
Speaker 2: but I didn't realize before I lost Riley that nine
26:14
Speaker 2: people every day take their life in this country, and
26:15
Speaker 2: six of them are men. That's horrific. And that's just
26:18
Speaker 2: the ones that succeed. That's not the amount of people
26:21
Speaker 2: that hurt themselves. That's not the amount of people with
26:23
Speaker 2: their hand on the doorknob of life convince that their
26:25
Speaker 2: friends or family would somehow be better off if they
26:27
Speaker 2: weren't here. And in the aftermath of losing Raley, I've
26:30
Speaker 2: had male friends come and open up to me about
26:32
Speaker 2: how they're struggling and thinking about ending their life. And
26:34
Speaker 2: these are beautiful men, not just aesthetically family men, successful
26:39
Speaker 2: business owners, life of the party. And you're like, wait what,
26:42
Speaker 2: And I think that men suffer in silence, they do
26:46
Speaker 2: they self isolate and that will unravel anyone and they're
26:50
Speaker 2: convinced that they're alone in their suffering, and it's someone
26:53
Speaker 2: turned the light on. If we did, we'd see how
26:56
Speaker 2: many people were in that darkness with us, and that
26:59
Speaker 2: alone could lift our heads above water. Because there goes
27:01
Speaker 2: that I'm alone in my suffering. There goes the yeah,
27:05
Speaker 2: the isolation of it. You actually would feel more validated,
27:09
Speaker 2: pine calm communication.
27:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.
27:11
Speaker 2: And the other thing that I think that we all
27:14
Speaker 2: have the capacity for, we're just enough trauma away from
27:18
Speaker 2: is to be homicidal and a rage that we don't
27:21
Speaker 2: even know exists. And in the aftermath of losing her,
27:25
Speaker 2: my instinct was to choose kindness and reach out and
27:28
Speaker 2: make sure that the person was okay. Who had done
27:31
Speaker 2: it because I found out that they might be being bullied.
27:34
Speaker 2: Teacher so it was her supervisor at work. No, the bully,
27:39
Speaker 2: So the bully who had been I found out that
27:41
Speaker 2: they might be being bullied because somebody had said it
27:44
Speaker 2: the celebration of lights. It's still be fucking fault. So
27:46
Speaker 2: then I went into We've got to make sure this
27:48
Speaker 2: kid's okay because I knew that they had had their
27:51
Speaker 2: own struggles mentally in suicide attempts since so I had
27:53
Speaker 2: reached out to the mum and said, you know, you
27:58
Speaker 2: need to know this person was being unkind and it
28:00
Speaker 2: was met with defensiveness, which I understand, but I was
28:04
Speaker 2: just crying. I said, look, you need to know Ki
28:06
Speaker 2: and I aren't looking to place blame. I just don't
28:07
Speaker 2: want anyone to hurt like this. Nobody warned me that
28:10
Speaker 2: my baby was hurting. I'm telling you that your child
28:12
Speaker 2: is at risk because I couldn't live with myself if
28:15
Speaker 2: something happened. And I reached out to the principal, who
28:18
Speaker 2: has been amazing, and said, you know, I'm just trying
28:20
Speaker 2: to make sure that you need to know this person
28:23
Speaker 2: might be at risk, and he essentially this plan was
28:26
Speaker 2: made for me to contact the person that night. Once
28:29
Speaker 2: we got the kids home, ironically from their workshop for
28:32
Speaker 2: children affected by suicide, So we get them home, Kain
28:35
Speaker 2: and I walked to the beach do the call, which
28:37
Speaker 2: was my instinct. It felt right where I said, you know,
28:40
Speaker 2: I want you to delete everything negative between you and
28:42
Speaker 2: a really, if you're tempted to think about her, I've
28:45
Speaker 2: found this beautiful, long love letter that she wrote for
28:47
Speaker 2: you your last birthday. That's how I want her remembered.
28:50
Speaker 2: And I was crying. He couldn't speak, and I said,
28:54
Speaker 2: I want you to look around the room, at the
28:55
Speaker 2: adults in the room, and know that there's never anything
28:59
Speaker 2: worth hurting yourself over. You've got the right supports and
29:02
Speaker 2: love in your life and whatever. And that felt like
29:04
Speaker 2: the thing to do. I got off the phone and
29:07
Speaker 2: I just collapsed. It was the hardest thing I'd ever
29:09
Speaker 2: done up until that date. It was harder than a
29:11
Speaker 2: celebration of life to know that your actions are intentionally.
29:16
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful I did it to be saving the
29:19
Speaker 2: life potentially. So the next day I woke up in
29:25
Speaker 2: a rage I didn't know as possible. And I was
29:27
Speaker 2: very familiar with anger because my life is sucked a
29:29
Speaker 2: bag Dix and there's been a lot of trauma, abuse
29:32
Speaker 2: and neglect. So I thought I was familiar with anger.
29:35
Speaker 2: It had kept me safe throughout my younger years and
29:38
Speaker 2: was someone I considered a friend. But this was rage.
29:42
Speaker 2: This was homicidal rage. I said to Car, I want
29:45
Speaker 2: to kill the person. I want to cause their death
29:47
Speaker 2: and I want to make the mum watch. I want
29:48
Speaker 2: to run their head over with my car and I
29:51
Speaker 2: want to cause the death. And I was crying because
29:54
Speaker 2: I was like this isn't me. I don't have any
29:56
Speaker 2: of this in me. I've been raped and drugged and
29:59
Speaker 2: raped and molested and all of these things, and never
30:02
Speaker 2: did I wish to harm another. It was just this
30:07
Speaker 2: non consensual homicidal rate. And I sat in that couldn't eat,
30:12
Speaker 2: couldn't sleep for three days. And I tell my girls
30:15
Speaker 2: it's important to acknowledge your emotions allow them to be.
30:18
Speaker 2: But then it becomes a choice whether or not you
30:19
Speaker 2: stay there. And I had to make a choice because
30:22
Speaker 2: I could feel I would have died within a month.
30:24
Speaker 2: I would have brewed a cancer that killed me so fast.
30:26
Speaker 2: I was dying at a cellular level in a way
30:29
Speaker 2: that I could feel would be like a lobster alive
30:32
Speaker 2: in a poll. I was dying fast, or I was
30:36
Speaker 2: gonna take some people with me. Yeah, And so I
30:39
Speaker 2: made a choice. I chose forgiveness. I chose life. I
30:43
Speaker 2: had to because it was one or the other. You
30:45
Speaker 2: can't stay in that place and live. And I'm not
30:49
Speaker 2: saying to people that if there's something an injustices, it's
30:52
Speaker 2: happened that needs you to act, not to act. I'm
30:54
Speaker 2: saying that for me, with the limited energy that I had,
30:58
Speaker 2: my choice was based on my awareness that whether the
31:02
Speaker 2: groomer or the bully, they're one of two kinds of people.
31:05
Speaker 2: They're either in a self imposed prison of guilt and
31:07
Speaker 2: regret that I wouldn't wish on anyone isn't locked they
31:10
Speaker 2: can actually do the work to become a better version
31:13
Speaker 2: of themselves and exit that in this life, or they're
31:16
Speaker 2: potentially sociopathic or psychopathic and would do the same thing
31:19
Speaker 2: to the next person. Neither of those realities can I
31:22
Speaker 2: influence or change. And so me staying in a place
31:25
Speaker 2: of anger looking back wanting revenge what meant that they
31:29
Speaker 2: didn't just lose their sister, They lost their mum and
31:32
Speaker 2: I lost my life. And for what Because it's not
31:35
Speaker 2: going to bring her back. You're not I've paid the
31:38
Speaker 2: ultimate price. I'm not paying more. I don't even know
31:41
Speaker 2: what I'm paying for. I'm a great mum, but I'm
31:45
Speaker 2: also not a victim. And if Riley's term on earth
31:49
Speaker 2: was always meant to be fifteen years, and it's our
31:51
Speaker 2: ego that wants to think that we could have, should
31:54
Speaker 2: have been able to know or do something or that
31:56
Speaker 2: kept her here longer, what if it was the beginning
31:58
Speaker 2: of a mental health condition that caused her to seek
32:02
Speaker 2: relief in drugs and alcohol. She had kids and then
32:05
Speaker 2: took her life in her forties. Anyway, you know, like
32:07
Speaker 2: our ego wants to think that us knowing might have
32:10
Speaker 2: meant that it would have been different. But what if
32:11
Speaker 2: her turn was always to be fifteen years? And I
32:14
Speaker 2: went and saw this amazing therapist in the early days,
32:18
Speaker 2: and he talked to me about what do you think
32:20
Speaker 2: her purpose he was, And I said, she came to
32:22
Speaker 2: be love. She came to teach me about love. I
32:26
Speaker 2: said that she was our honeymoon love personifight is rally
32:28
Speaker 2: coming from abuse and neglect and so much bad stuff
32:32
Speaker 2: happening to me had the hands of men. I needed
32:36
Speaker 2: a son first, and I'm grateful the universe gave me that.
32:39
Speaker 2: But I was so convinced that I was to be
32:41
Speaker 2: the mother of Boice. This is the soft version of me.
32:44
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm too hard around the edges, I'm
32:46
Speaker 2: too angry, I'm true, like, nah, I cannot protect a
32:49
Speaker 2: girl like my own mom couldn't do it. I don't
32:51
Speaker 2: want that responsibility. I've wanted six kids, and I wanted
32:54
Speaker 2: them all to have penises. And I cried when there
32:59
Speaker 2: was no penis on the ultrasound for rally for like
33:01
Speaker 2: a month. Then I felt guilty because all I've ever
33:03
Speaker 2: wanted is to be a mom. I was crying and
33:07
Speaker 2: not welcoming her. And then I got three girls, and
33:11
Speaker 2: I would always say, though, if we got everything we
33:14
Speaker 2: thought we wanted in life, we would miss out on
33:16
Speaker 2: so much, because every one of them softened me more
33:18
Speaker 2: and more and showed me a love I never would
33:20
Speaker 2: have known if it wasn't for the opportunity to be
33:22
Speaker 2: the mother of girls and imagine six boys. But I imagine,
33:26
Speaker 2: I don't I know, and I don't want any of
33:29
Speaker 2: this to sound like I'm a man hater or like
33:31
Speaker 2: manner difficult, Bud, come on, come on, It's challenging, and
33:37
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful. But I truly believe that she was
33:41
Speaker 2: here to teach me about love, but how to love myself.
33:46
Speaker 2: And of all my children, she looked the most like me,
33:49
Speaker 2: and KAI would say, she's just you. She's you before
33:52
Speaker 2: the world got its hands on you. And to look
33:54
Speaker 2: at and know the fear that I had in would
33:58
Speaker 2: I be able to protect a girl from the cruelties
34:00
Speaker 2: of the world and then go it really isn't that
34:03
Speaker 2: fucking hard to love protect this beautiful, innocent little being.
34:08
Speaker 2: And then it was all of the anger that came
34:10
Speaker 2: to the surface. And because I was molested when I
34:12
Speaker 2: was five, like having this five year old just going
34:15
Speaker 2: how could anyone sexualize or objectifier? Like all of this
34:19
Speaker 2: stuff that she brought to the surface just by her presence,
34:22
Speaker 2: but was just love and showed me this love I
34:26
Speaker 2: never would have known if it wasn't for the opportunity
34:28
Speaker 2: to be her mum and if her term here was
34:30
Speaker 2: fifteen years. I got to love her and be loved
34:33
Speaker 2: by her. And the last big conversation we had the
34:37
Speaker 2: night before when she was in trouble, was about how
34:40
Speaker 2: much I loved her so freaking beautiful. Don't get me wrong.
34:44
Speaker 2: November is like the third anniversary. She should be eighteen.
34:47
Speaker 2: I should be going clubbing with her, all these things.
34:50
Speaker 2: It's valid to say I should be doing those things.
34:52
Speaker 2: And I know that every life event, when the girls
34:55
Speaker 2: get married, when they have a baby, I have to
34:57
Speaker 2: be so aware of dealing with my grief so that
35:01
Speaker 2: it doesn't negatively impact those things, because I would never
35:04
Speaker 2: want the girls to be I don't want to put
35:06
Speaker 2: the baby in mum because it's upsetting it. I don't
35:09
Speaker 2: want to be robbed of the present.
35:10
Speaker 5: Because the past hurts or the future won't be You know,
35:14
Speaker 5: there's so much conscious investment in living the fuck out
35:19
Speaker 5: of this life, but it's probably the best investment you'll
35:22
Speaker 5: ever make because we only get one red hot crack
35:25
Speaker 5: at it, and I'm so grateful to still be in it.
35:29
Speaker 5: So powerful.
35:31
Speaker 1: Everything you've said is so powerful and it's going to
35:33
Speaker 1: impact so many people. Can you tell us about the
35:37
Speaker 1: race methodism?
35:39
Speaker 2: Yes, grounded in gratitude, So essentially it is wrapping up
35:44
Speaker 2: the approach to life and resilience and the capacity that
35:48
Speaker 2: we all have for it. You know what's interesting, though,
35:51
Speaker 2: is I couldn't remember anything, and the trauma of her
35:56
Speaker 2: death and feeling that cotton walk feeling was what I
36:00
Speaker 2: would equate to. When I explained it to my girls
36:01
Speaker 2: when they were frustrated, we had this conversation, why don't
36:04
Speaker 2: you remember when I saithing and I said, I have
36:05
Speaker 2: a traumatic brain injury. Girls, I remember the moment my
36:10
Speaker 2: brain broke on the.
36:11
Speaker 5: Way down in the lift, and I said, I don't
36:13
Speaker 5: know if it will ever get better, but it's like
36:17
Speaker 5: living with early onset dementia when you know that your
36:21
Speaker 5: brain is fucking betraying you, but you still have enough
36:24
Speaker 5: of it to know that you should know that thing.
36:27
Speaker 5: And I would even Last Christmas, I was in Burley
36:32
Speaker 5: and this lady.
36:32
Speaker 2: Gues the people I've had verbal diarrhea on about my trauma.
36:36
Speaker 2: This lady the lights goes as well, how are you?
36:39
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I know, I should know
36:42
Speaker 2: who you are, but I'm sorry my daughter died, and
36:44
Speaker 2: she goes, oh, darling, it's Stacy Hooper, one of the
36:47
Speaker 2: main teachers from the school my children's soul childhood currently
36:51
Speaker 2: in our life, Like not that I'm at the school,
36:53
Speaker 2: they're in high school, come on, but you could see
36:56
Speaker 2: she was like kind of kicked in the guts because
36:58
Speaker 2: the fact that I was like, ah, because when people
37:01
Speaker 2: would say things to me like, oh, you worried at
37:03
Speaker 2: Golgo's hospital, do you know? Then like everyone thinks you
37:06
Speaker 2: know everybody who works the hospitals, and then my brain
37:13
Speaker 2: would go back looking for did I work with and
37:16
Speaker 2: then hit her death and in that moment, I'm making
37:18
Speaker 2: eye contact with you, but I'm reliving her death, and
37:20
Speaker 2: then I'm like, I'm sorry, my daughter died and I
37:22
Speaker 2: just have the verbal diarrhea and all these people and
37:24
Speaker 2: they'd be like fucking Jesus. And then I got better
37:27
Speaker 2: at going traumatic brain injury or explaining it a different way,
37:29
Speaker 2: you know, And I said to the girls, I need
37:31
Speaker 2: to have patience with me for the things that I
37:33
Speaker 2: can't remember, because I hope that my brain gets better.
37:35
Speaker 2: But the Grace method is the thing that essentially encompasses
37:39
Speaker 2: my approach to life and everything, and it's about gratitude
37:42
Speaker 2: and resilience and acceptance, radical acceptance because essentially it's so
37:48
Speaker 2: powerful to allow what is to be. And then it's
37:51
Speaker 2: kind of like there was let them theory that Mel
37:53
Speaker 2: Robbins talks about, because yeah, Noel, let you now let me?
37:57
Speaker 2: Like I can't accept that, But what am I actually
37:59
Speaker 2: going to do about it? You know? It's just about
38:02
Speaker 2: wrapping up how we can all kind of tap into
38:04
Speaker 2: that resilience that don't keep talking about that we all
38:07
Speaker 2: have the capacity for. And you one hundred percent can
38:11
Speaker 2: navigate your darkest days and come through it because you
38:15
Speaker 2: keep coming through it. I don't believe you come out
38:17
Speaker 2: of a lot of things, because especially when we're talking
38:20
Speaker 2: about grief, it's not something that's going to resolve, whether
38:23
Speaker 2: it's your potential. Let's say you lost the career potential,
38:26
Speaker 2: or got an injury that robbed you of what you
38:29
Speaker 2: thought your life was going to look or feel like
38:31
Speaker 2: or be in certain regards, whether it's the loss of
38:34
Speaker 2: a pet, whether it's whatever it is. Because that's something
38:36
Speaker 2: that I do want to mention is I believe that
38:39
Speaker 2: comparison is the thief of joy. And when I talk
38:43
Speaker 2: to people, they will often go, oh, They'll talk about
38:45
Speaker 2: something in their life and then they'll go, oh, my god,
38:47
Speaker 2: it doesn't compare to what you've been through. So many
38:49
Speaker 2: people have said that to me, And why are we comparing?
38:52
Speaker 2: Why does it need to compare? Because your grief is valid? Yeah?
38:56
Speaker 2: And the reality is if your lived experience and the
38:58
Speaker 2: limitations of your exposure in life mean that the greatest
39:02
Speaker 2: significant loss that you've had is say a pet. You've
39:05
Speaker 2: had to put a peta sleep, but that was the
39:06
Speaker 2: most unconditional form of love that you've experienced, and you're
39:10
Speaker 2: there going, why am I not? Okay? Why is that
39:12
Speaker 2: not valid? Because that's the significant grief and loss for you?
39:17
Speaker 2: And then you're there going, yeah, but your dolaughter jumped
39:19
Speaker 2: off about it. Why does it need to compare? And
39:21
Speaker 2: what happens is when we invalidate our suffering or don't
39:25
Speaker 2: acknowledge it, we invalidate our lived experience, and we rob
39:29
Speaker 2: ourselves of the capacity for joy and happiness and contentment
39:32
Speaker 2: that lives on the other side of acknowledging and validating
39:36
Speaker 2: our lived experience and our grief and loss. And only
39:39
Speaker 2: by allowing that bridge to exist can we be sitting
39:43
Speaker 2: here going, I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life,
39:45
Speaker 2: you know, and I love my life and I'm so
39:47
Speaker 2: grateful to be here. But if I just kept whoever
39:50
Speaker 2: I was in validating it, then I'm robbing myself of
39:54
Speaker 2: and I'm not somebody who's going things need to compare,
39:57
Speaker 2: and that doesn't always sit comfortably. They're like, but yeah,
40:00
Speaker 2: but I'm like, but why? Because the reality is I
40:04
Speaker 2: hope that your grief and loss never looks anything like
40:07
Speaker 2: the boundaries or environmental factors of mine. But if and
40:10
Speaker 2: when it doesn't, it doesn't invalidate it. And when we
40:12
Speaker 2: start to realize that, Okay, actually I really wanted to
40:16
Speaker 2: be a gymnast, you know, and let's say you put
40:18
Speaker 2: all of this life and effort in training and then
40:20
Speaker 2: you get an injury that robs you of that or
40:22
Speaker 2: you can't play football anymore. That's a significant loss when
40:25
Speaker 2: you invalidate it because you think it's not significant to
40:27
Speaker 2: other people, or you're expecting other people to validate your loss.
40:31
Speaker 2: And that's a trap too. How are they going to
40:33
Speaker 2: validate it if it wasn't a valid gain for them,
40:37
Speaker 2: It wasn't a valid potential. They haven't walked in your
40:39
Speaker 2: shoes to know what that potential feels like. So they
40:42
Speaker 2: were never expecting the realization of that goal or that
40:45
Speaker 2: success to know the gravity of the loss of it.
40:49
Speaker 2: And so if we don't sit it next to each
40:51
Speaker 2: other in order to compare, we sit it next to
40:54
Speaker 2: each other if needed, in order to validate our lived experience,
40:59
Speaker 2: to have compassion and empathy for each other, but definitely
41:02
Speaker 2: not to compare, because it comparison is of joy.
41:06
Speaker 1: Love And at the moment, are you coaching and helping
41:10
Speaker 1: other people through grief? Is that a passion of yours?
41:13
Speaker 2: It is a massive passion. So I've just formatted that
41:16
Speaker 2: grace framework to be able to start offering essentially some
41:21
Speaker 2: resilience coaching, and so I want to be clear though
41:25
Speaker 2: that I am not your savior. I talk about my
41:28
Speaker 2: book in my book how It's Okay to not be okay,
41:30
Speaker 2: and how important therapy and trained professionals in the area
41:34
Speaker 2: of your grief and loss too, all your struggles, because
41:37
Speaker 2: there's a very different niche for suicide related grief and
41:41
Speaker 2: loss than there is for grief and loss. We've had
41:43
Speaker 2: both specialties involved in our life and both are a benefit.
41:47
Speaker 2: But it's really important to know that sometimes you need
41:50
Speaker 2: to niche down. Sometimes you need someone with that firsthand
41:53
Speaker 2: empathy or whatever it is to be able to really
41:56
Speaker 2: tailor it to your lived experience, whatever that is, and
41:59
Speaker 2: help you in doing so. That's so much sense. It's
42:01
Speaker 2: important that if people are in the thick of it,
42:04
Speaker 2: they might actually need those kinds of therapists or then
42:07
Speaker 2: you're a feedback lady to heal the trauma and things
42:09
Speaker 2: like that. My help has a place, but I'm never
42:12
Speaker 2: trying to replace the equally important, if not more important,
42:16
Speaker 2: depending on where you're at a new grief and loss
42:18
Speaker 2: forms of therapy. The only other thing that I want
42:21
Speaker 2: to talk about, I mean I could talk all day obviously,
42:23
Speaker 2: and underwater after I lost Riley. So we had the
42:27
Speaker 2: celebration of life, which is a beautiful alternative to a funeral,
42:30
Speaker 2: because I remember in the days after, I was like,
42:32
Speaker 2: we're not having a funeral. You're not spared to have
42:34
Speaker 2: a fucking funeral for your child. But as the weekend unfolded,
42:37
Speaker 2: I realized that we could have a celebration of life
42:39
Speaker 2: and that that was not just about us. There were
42:42
Speaker 2: the faculty appears that all needed somewhere for their unexpressed
42:46
Speaker 2: love to go, but also would have been so much
42:48
Speaker 2: more traumatized by not having any kind of not that
42:51
Speaker 2: it provides closure, but no acknowledgment of their loss as well.
42:55
Speaker 2: And so we had this celebration of life, which is
42:57
Speaker 2: mostly a blurk as we were in shock, but amazing.
43:00
Speaker 2: But we do it when we lose someone, trying to
43:02
Speaker 2: translate and transmit all this love and appreciation we have
43:04
Speaker 2: for them, but they're gone, And why are we not
43:06
Speaker 2: doing more of that while people are here? Why are
43:08
Speaker 2: we not giving people their flowers while they're still here
43:10
Speaker 2: to smell them? And if we did more of that,
43:12
Speaker 2: do you know how you could combat unforeseen loss free
43:16
Speaker 2: from guilt and regret? And remorse because that person was
43:18
Speaker 2: in your mind the day before they died and you
43:20
Speaker 2: didn't reach out to them. And I believe that statistically,
43:23
Speaker 2: with all of those losses that we're having, if we
43:26
Speaker 2: did start giving people their flowers, we could save lives
43:30
Speaker 2: because if you took the opportunity in the next week,
43:33
Speaker 2: even just once, that somebody popping into your mind is
43:36
Speaker 2: the universe. If you want nudging you to just call them,
43:39
Speaker 2: stop what you're doing. Call them voice messages better than
43:42
Speaker 2: text because they hear the enthusiasm in your voice or text,
43:46
Speaker 2: and tell them how much they mean to you, how
43:48
Speaker 2: much you appreciate them, how they show up in life,
43:50
Speaker 2: whatever it is, how they've impacted you. We would be
43:53
Speaker 2: saving lives. And it's like a drug. You start doing it,
43:55
Speaker 2: you'll have a hard time not doing it because you
43:58
Speaker 2: get the dopamine hit too, and then you'll get in
44:00
Speaker 2: such a habit of doing it that then it becomes
44:04
Speaker 2: like alp in your day because it's commonplace that down
44:08
Speaker 2: the track they might tell you saved my life that day,
44:10
Speaker 2: and that conversation that texts, that recording might be the
44:13
Speaker 2: very thing that puts ahead above Wader. When they were
44:15
Speaker 2: convinced that they were going to drown, and so on
44:17
Speaker 2: the twenty ninth of November, Saturday, the twenty night them
44:20
Speaker 2: having a celebration of life not necessitated by death, where
44:23
Speaker 2: we give people their flowers while they're still here to
44:25
Speaker 2: smell them. It is a big family friendly day at
44:28
Speaker 2: the Burly Driving Range, live music, food, truck bar, go
44:32
Speaker 2: of driving Range, jumping castle, face painting, glitter bar, photo booth,
44:37
Speaker 2: unlimited photos I paid for so that people can Saturday, Yeah,
44:40
Speaker 2: at four in the afternoon, a fire dance performance, a
44:44
Speaker 2: big family friendly day and it's a November event. So
44:48
Speaker 2: the proceeds from the tickets and the raffles will go
44:51
Speaker 2: to men's mental health and suicide prevention. I started going,
44:54
Speaker 2: I'm really hoping it takes off and is going to
44:55
Speaker 2: be an annual event. I'm a powerhouse. It is an
44:57
Speaker 2: annual event. My premium you met me, Hi, my husband
45:02
Speaker 2: is a universe. So this is the premiere of my
45:08
Speaker 2: annual event, the GC Celebration of Life, where it's going
45:11
Speaker 2: to blow up. It's a big old love fest. It's
45:13
Speaker 2: going to take off and become like a kind of
45:15
Speaker 2: music festival. Is how I see it that we're going
45:17
Speaker 2: to do every year, and because we'll have this big
45:20
Speaker 2: love fest for the day. My hope is that people
45:22
Speaker 2: will go forward and even if the intention is for
45:25
Speaker 2: the next fifty two weeks, once a week, pause tell someone,
45:29
Speaker 2: because I would challenge those who do it and commit
45:33
Speaker 2: to it to come back to me in a year
45:34
Speaker 2: and tell me you only did it fifty two times,
45:36
Speaker 2: because I reckon you'll fall love doing it. And I
45:39
Speaker 2: truly believe that as good as the donations and stuff
45:43
Speaker 2: from the raffles into November is, there's such a bigger, potential,
45:47
Speaker 2: powerful movement that could happen that's going to combat those
45:50
Speaker 2: statistics because we can save lives.
45:53
Speaker 1: Yeah amazing. I mean, suppose anyone listening, do you need donation?
45:57
Speaker 1: One hundred I own a buff and body when I'd
46:00
Speaker 1: love to donate.
46:01
Speaker 2: Yes, it was going to because I'm also a customer,
46:05
Speaker 2: But yes, any businesses that could donate goods or services
46:09
Speaker 2: to the raffle pool one hundred percent. I am still
46:12
Speaker 2: looking for a couple of major prizes if we can.
46:14
Speaker 2: I was hoping for a night or two's accommodation or something.
46:18
Speaker 2: A couple of guys were suggesting yesterday. Even a dinghy,
46:21
Speaker 2: I reckon we could get a few business owners to
46:23
Speaker 2: chuck in. There are only two thousand dollars. I was like, oh,
46:26
Speaker 2: I'm thinking small. These guys are like, nah, let's take
46:28
Speaker 2: bigger better. So yeah, anything. If somebody's listening and they're like,
46:32
Speaker 2: oh my god, this would be an if you would
46:34
Speaker 2: want to win it, I want it, yeah, because if
46:36
Speaker 2: your kids would want to win it, because the beauty
46:38
Speaker 2: of the raffles on the day you get to put
46:40
Speaker 2: your ticket in the thing you want to win, so
46:42
Speaker 2: the prize is only going to be taken by people
46:43
Speaker 2: who wanted them. But also, you don't have an adult
46:46
Speaker 2: winning a Roadblocks gift card and a kid winning then
46:48
Speaker 2: to kill it. But yeah, that's actually very smart, yes,
46:52
Speaker 2: But then also I didn't want to limit the donations
46:55
Speaker 2: for those who can't be there. What I'm doing is
46:59
Speaker 2: anybody who donates twenty dollars for every twenty dollars you
47:02
Speaker 2: donate via the links that's on my social media is
47:04
Speaker 2: straight to move. Then I will take your details in
47:07
Speaker 2: a pool of five hundred dollars worth the prizes that
47:09
Speaker 2: they can win. So that'll be drawn and they'll have
47:11
Speaker 2: seven days to collect. But then obviously there's a much
47:14
Speaker 2: bigger prize pool of cool stuff that you can actually
47:17
Speaker 2: so cool. Yeah, any brands listening, please reach out. So
47:21
Speaker 2: the instagram is GC Underscore Celebration of Life. I need
47:25
Speaker 2: people to book the tickets. So the tickets are via
47:27
Speaker 2: humanit Tics or would slash y mindset Matters or on
47:31
Speaker 2: the GC Underscore Celebration of Life page. You can find
47:34
Speaker 2: the link there. It's fifteen dollars for adult and then
47:36
Speaker 2: free for children. But I also put a free option
47:39
Speaker 2: that anybody can select, because I never want money to
47:41
Speaker 2: be the reason you miss out on something like this.
47:43
Speaker 2: The fifteen dollars was justice out donations. I don't really
47:47
Speaker 2: care about whether you take a free ticket or not.
47:49
Speaker 2: I just need to know numbers.
47:50
Speaker 1: Amazing, it'll be there, incredible, Thank you so much, thank
47:55
Speaker 1: your details now, description box, and we hope to have
47:57
Speaker 1: you on again.
47:59
Speaker 2: There's nothing I won't talk about. Everythink we covered that,
48:01
Speaker 2: but yeah, one hundred percent, I'll come many times. Yeah,
48:04
Speaker 2: that would be in my yeah for sure. Yeah.
48:06
Speaker 3: I think a really beautiful thing around, you know, with
48:08
Speaker 3: the birth thing and wanting somebody who's done it before.
48:10
Speaker 3: I think what you shared today is also a really
48:12
Speaker 3: beautiful reminder for anyone who has been through anything in
48:15
Speaker 3: life that you have been the person who has walked
48:17
Speaker 3: through the fire.
48:18
Speaker 2: When I was in this dark place in this last month,
48:21
Speaker 2: I sat with the realization that this is going to
48:24
Speaker 2: serve me so as uncomfortable as it is. I know
48:27
Speaker 2: from when I had kids and we go through difficult
48:30
Speaker 2: things and they thought one of them was down syndrome
48:33
Speaker 2: and we had amniocentesis and all these things that ended
48:35
Speaker 2: up clear, and I was like, why did I have
48:37
Speaker 2: to go through that? And then I'd stop the victim
48:39
Speaker 2: mentality and go, you know what. I don't know if
48:41
Speaker 2: it's when I'm a midwife, I don't know if it's
48:42
Speaker 2: my own daughters, but one day I'm going to have
48:44
Speaker 2: to support people through this. And being able to have
48:46
Speaker 2: walked in their shoes is so powerful. So I knew
48:49
Speaker 2: the benefit of that from my career, and so when
48:51
Speaker 2: I'm sitting in this darkness, I'm going, well, my whole
48:54
Speaker 2: intention with my future is to redefine myself, which I'm
48:57
Speaker 2: in the midst of as this resilience mindset coach and
49:00
Speaker 2: speaker and held retreats and do all of these powerful
49:03
Speaker 2: things and to be able to be a person who
49:05
Speaker 2: holds your hand in life, whether it is metaphorically or
49:09
Speaker 2: like actually physically, but to be there going no, No,
49:13
Speaker 2: you can one hundred percent come through this darkness. I
49:16
Speaker 2: know that, whether you're asking it in the back of
49:18
Speaker 2: your mind or you're not. The power of oh no,
49:21
Speaker 2: I've been there. I'm walking the walk and able to
49:25
Speaker 2: talk the talk because I've walked it, because I've sat
49:28
Speaker 2: in that darkness, and I've been to the depths of hell.
49:30
Speaker 2: I've had my hand on the doorway through which I
49:32
Speaker 2: was very capable of exiting this life. But I'm still
49:35
Speaker 2: here in it and defining myself as the happiest I've
49:38
Speaker 2: ever been. And I've got so many things in my
49:39
Speaker 2: tool belt to be able to help people. And I
49:42
Speaker 2: don't think that there is a better source of support
49:44
Speaker 2: than somebody who can say that.
49:46
Speaker 3: Oh, hands down, yeah, yeah, like an absolute mic drop,
49:50
Speaker 3: considering I've got a traumatic brain and I forget stuff
49:53
Speaker 3: you did.
49:54
Speaker 2: Good, Bin, Yeah.
49:58
Speaker 3: I just wanted to say everything that you've shared is
50:01
Speaker 3: just a piece of evidence of to remind anybody who's
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Speaker 3: been through anything and who has sat in the darkness
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Speaker 3: that if you can go through what you've been through
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Speaker 3: and you can be the human that you are. It's
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Speaker 3: possible for them too, And I think you only really
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Speaker 3: need one person to be evidence to see that what
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Speaker 3: you want for yourself is possible and you can actually
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Speaker 3: come out of that grief.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so aspiring, absolutely incredible.
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Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, we'll sounds good Bye,