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Sex in Your 40s & 50s: How to Reignite The Spark - Elana Auerbach · The Midlife Rebel Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I like to call it the la love laboratory that we're you know experimenting with love and pleasure, intimacy and connection.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we take it as an experiment, there's no wrong moves.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's no mistakes.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're just like, okay, now that didn't feel as good, but oh, that feels a little bit better.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe if you you know lighten the stroke a little bit, or maybe if you kiss right here, just wondering and being curious and then asking for different things.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Midlife Rebel Podcast.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to rewrite the midlife story for women who refuse to be put in a box.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because maybe midlife isn't a crisis.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's an awakening.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Amid everything else we're juggling in midlife, bodies changing, energy stretched thin, nervous systems running hot, there's one thing that often slips to the bottom of the list.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Intimacy.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Modern couples are reporting higher levels of burnout and lower levels of desire than ever before.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: But today's guest, Ilana Auerbach, says that doesn't mean the spark is gone.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Ilana is a sensuality educator and author of The Sure Thing, a shame-free, deeply practical guide designed to help couples reconnect with desire, closeness, and joy, even in the thick of real life.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to be talking about why intimacy changes in midlife and how creating safety, simplicity, and small rituals of connection can transform not just your sex life but your relationship as a whole.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining me.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: We got a lot to talk about today, Ilana.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we do.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's an ever-expanding topic.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I am absolutely 100% depending on you to give us all the information.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't had any other guests talking about uh sexuality.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: We, you know, we talk spirituality, we talk hormones, we talk um, you know, the body changing and all of the things that go with um that sort of midlife transition, but sex is one thing that gets missed.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Until now.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Until now, until the sure thing got created by you.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, do you want to kick us off by telling us a little bit about your background story, how you came to be doing this work as a sensuality coach, what a sensuality coach actually is, and um, we'll go from there.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I came, I started my life as I like to call it on the conveyor belt of life.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was, I was a people pleaser, I was the quintessential good girl trying to get approval from everyone, especially authority figures, parents, teachers, and that kind of thing.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up in my late 20s, marrying someone who I had absolutely no chemistry with.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: However, he looked good on paper, he's perfect for my parents, you know, that that type of thing.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And a few years into putting us both through the ringer of seeing every therapist and trying to find him in my heart, where the thing was, he was already in my heart.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I loved him, but he just wasn't in my yoni.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he there was no chemistry, there was no fire, there was no passion there, and there never was.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So in my early 30s, I did a medicine journey with a Hakomi therapist, and the whole day journey was felt like this rebirth.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, she said, Well, where does this guy fit in?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so crystal clear, he doesn't fit in.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so that night, I was the most courageous thing I'd ever done in my 31 years or something was going back to our home in Cole Valley, San Francisco, and telling him that I wanted to separate, that I wanted a divorce.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And as I'm standing in my clarity, you know, I still remember how empowering that felt.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he's sobbing on the couch.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that I could I could make it all better.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I could just push aside this part of me that knew what she what she wanted and just capitulate to his desires, you know, go back to the pattern of being the accommodator, being the people pleaser.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had the strength and the courage, which I didn't have the years before when he proposed, to say no, this is not right for me.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay to say no, and it's okay, and I can be strong and witness him and be compassionate for what's happening for him right now.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't mean I have to just roll over and so as an aside, I really I freed us both from this relationship that was a mismatch.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And because if one what I found, if one person in a couple is feeling a mismatch, guess what?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: They they really both are.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Even if one person is not, doesn't see it yet, isn't willing to look and be really brutally honest with themselves.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So he found another partner, he has a family, and so out of that, I felt like I am free now.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I had a friend at the a dear, dear sister friend of mine who's still very close, who was very involved in what I called this pleasure community in San Francisco.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I call them the pleasure people, and she was hosting a pleasure course at her house.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my first entree in early 2002 into this world of exploring pleasure and orgasm and having research partners, where I was a serial monogamous up until that point.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: From teenage when I started dating to my early 30s, I was always in a I'd meet somebody, we'd we'd start a monogamous relationship, and that that just happened.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: It seems so, and then you start to get to know someone.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: When I think about that, it sounds so silly that you know you you commit to somebody and then you start to get to know them.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: But okay so, and a couple months later, I had signed up for the advanced pleasure course, and I I didn't even want to go.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I figured, how much more could I know?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, come on, I've already done the pleasure course.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine, it's wonderful, I'm enjoying it.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I show up that morning because I'd already prepaid for the course, and luckily, and I in the kitchen I had one of those encounters where I looked into this man's eyes and I felt like I knew him from another lifetime, from something.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Turns out he becomes my my first we started as research partners, we researching orgasm and pleasure together.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: This was a label that this community used to not box people in to a relationship if they wanted to explore pleasure and orgasm.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where we began.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're married now for over, we've been together now since 2002.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: We started in an open relationship.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that's where I began exploring and experiencing the infinite nature of pleasure and orgasm.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, I uh I started a women's group that was called Sensuel.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was a three-month course about women falling more deeply in love with themselves and connecting in with their authentic voice and their passion and activating that.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, I was ordained as a priestess in the 13 moon mystery school.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was walking that path and then was certified to teach their year-long immersion into the sacred feminine mysteries, which are 13 different archetypal energies and having and what what we explore is connecting with these different archetypes.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And archetypes are available to all of us, no matter what our temporary gender or race or religion or whatever it is, but there are form constants that we can tap into and connect with our own unique expression of the great mother or the goddess of compassion or the goddess of love, the primal goddess, all of these different energies.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would I wove in the sensual teachings and very embodied, very sensual, and and that's where I taught for about a decade.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, Bill and I get married, we have a child, and as it all often happens, is the responsibilities of parenthood and life and work, and then our sexy, really wonderful sex life took a way back seat.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so that happened, that went on for about 12 years.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Nadine, we tried all kinds of things, all kinds of suggestions from experts, books we read, what friends were trying, just everything.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And there was just, and like all couples, there was a mismatch in desire.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: All couples have don't have the exact same level of desire.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And our desire changes, right?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So often there's one partner who has higher desire and one partner who has lower desire, but then that can shift, right?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: That can shift hormonally, what you know, with what when our hormones change as women, when we go through paramenopause, when we go through menopause, and all kinds of things can change that.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So even the dynamic with me being the higher desire person, so I was more reaching out to him, trying to initiate.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: However, because of the rejection that I would experience, then what he would reach out, I would be like, no, right?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna give that to him.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You rejected me.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so that whole disempowering kind of spiraling down dynamic that that we suffered through, really.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, like so many couples, we loved each other, we did life well together, we managed, we were parenting well together.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: All of these things were going well, except the intimate, the sexual intimacy.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say overall intimacy was really lagging.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And in 2018, I was in a car with a friend who was wanting a um a con a weekly consort.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she was a single mom at the time, and she wanted to get her double mitzvah on Shabbat.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Shabbat is the Jewish uh Sabbath, happens on Saturday, sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned when I was in Hebrew high school that if you have sex on Shabbat, you get a double mitzvah, which is a double good deed.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you're building up good karma.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: We we love the sex positivity of some Jewish interpretations, which is you know one of them that I that I learned.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we were talking about, yeah, I she's talking about she wants a Shabbat consort.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I said, heck, I want a Shabbat consort too.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then it occurred to me it's a sure thing, a Shabbat unification ritual where you come together, you know, and have intimacy with someone.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, that's in 2018.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much built-up gunk and resentment between me and my spouse that it's not until December 2020, after I committed to a friend that I would invite him into this practice that I actually did.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, after we made love, our son was at a drum lesson on a Saturday.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I said, I'm gonna do it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it because I had it's having a sacred witness, you know, committing to somebody outside yourself is a really powerful support mechanism.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what had me just go through the gunk and the fear of rejection again, and just have the courage to say, you know what, I'm going to do this.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: We made love in the afterglow.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Hey, babe, what would you think about having a weekly practice where we deepen an intimacy, connection, and pleasure together?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Sounds great, sugar.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that, I mean, it was as simple as that, Nadine, because then the next Saturday, our son had the drum lesson.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was our time.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then we just turned towards each other.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was no longer about if we're gonna have sex, if we're not gonna have sex, if I'm in the mood.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not about having sex, actually.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: The sure thing is about deepening in my sure thing is about in deepening an intimacy, connection, and pleasure with myself or with my spouse.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: The sure thing is a totally personalized practice.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing that we do is you set an intention.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's our intention.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you notice there's nothing about orgasming or sex in there.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, does that happen often?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yes.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of orgasms often, but it's not required.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not this performative, goal-oriented activity.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's about turning towards each other and cultivating a pleasurable experience together.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's and I was honestly amazed at the years, I mean, over a decade of withholds and resentment and abandonment, you know, all of it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost disappeared immediately because it it doesn't exist here.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: All that existed was this pleasure practice that I could look forward to and knew that come Saturday, that was going to be our that was going to be our time.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we we were reliable.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: We were committed, both of us, to this practice.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we did it.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And about six months, and it was miraculous.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: This whole part of myself, Nadine, that I hadn't in little interludes, sexual interludes in my 20s and 30s, I connected, I recognized this part, but I really didn't have a deep, intimate knowing of my wild sensual self.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And now this part had a canvas every week to play and explore.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And she has a huge appetite for embodied activity.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned to ski in my 50s.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I started training in Aikido, you know, all these embodied things that I was never an athlete, never into any of that until I started this weekly pleasure practice.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so about six months after we're practicing weekly, and not like I said, sometimes I didn't feel like it, didn't want to.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: But we it was just about turning towards each other.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And after one of our practices, I turned to Bill and it it dawned on me.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, babe, I think I'm gonna have to write a book about this because it's been such a miracle.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I want to share this with other people.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know other people are struggling, like we were for so long.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's where the book came from.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: There it is.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, wow, what a story.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm before we sort of dive into the contents of the book, there are a couple of things that I want to ask you.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just curious.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um because you started uh pleasure practice, you were in that the community that you mentioned.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um so this did this really feel like I mean, not most people, most people don't do something like that in their 30s, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: So did does it feel like um um a continuation of that experience?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you feel like that whole experience was just to meet Bill?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like both.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I feel like that it that what that experience had me do was and and this is I think common in a lot of relationships, is those first year, two years, three years, they say, maximum, where there's a lot of passion, there's a lot of lust, there's a lot of hot sex, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we had.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that lasts a little bit longer than that, but that so that's what we had, as most do.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: The practice that in the pleasure community that we were in was they was a practice called deliberate orgasm, which I talk about in the book.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about where one person is receiving uh is is at effect and another person is at cause.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So one person is stroking another person's genitals, essentially.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I give very detailed instructions of that particular practice, which is a wonderful thing to have in, you know, as in an array of sexual possibilities and sensual possibilities.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: So however, the sure thing really came out of this desert experience of lack of sensuality wasn't even about sexuality.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was more about a closeness with you know, wanting to be close, wanting to really feel good in my body in the presence of my spouse.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realized after we'd been practicing, and I think Bill was traveling and then he was sick, and so there were several weeks that we didn't practice, and I could feel myself getting cranky again, and I kind of had a shorter temper.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized, wait a second, what why am I waiting for him?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't I just do this solo?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's when I started the solo sure that you can you can absolutely practice by yourself.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I practice often by myself and people who aren't in relationships, you don't have to be in a relationship at all to practice a sure thing, because it's a it's a it's a love replenishing practice and nourishing, nurturing practice to really fill ourselves up.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so whether we're doing that with ourselves, with ourselves and with a partner, with multiple partners, you know, however you like to roll, as long as we're consenting adults, that's that's great.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um what else?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's talk about this whole um point in our lives.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: You had it with Bill when you got married, you had a child, and all of a sudden um the light seems to be um switched off when it comes to sensuality um and sexuality.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you think that's an experience for many of us?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you think that is related to perimenopause, menopause?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like is this oh god, my question could go in several different directions.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how how much do you think it is related to to our hormonal shifts?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just go there because I've I nearly went off on a tent.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I I feel like uh that's part of it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's certainly part of it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there there's a changing landscape even before paramenopause.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I experienced with Bill.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it didn't start when I was in in uh you know paramenopause.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: It started before that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I what I have come to learn is that nobody teaches us.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we see Hollywood movies, we have this concept and fantasy that that's supposed to last.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: That passion is supposed to last.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: We feel like then we turn on ourselves and judge ourselves and judge our partners and blame each other when it doesn't, because we're under some false illusion that that is what's supposed to sustain us for the long haul in a long-term relationship.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just our our brain chemistry does not work that way.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they've done studies to show that maximum of three years is when you've got the the different um uh neurochemicals that are that are firing at that level, right?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: When you're first like in lust with somebody, right?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, and then you you also recognize you're getting to know somebody in in a really different way.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're seeing, you know, all kind the full spectrum, right?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, you know, all the parts that are beautiful and ugly and stinky and wondrous and everything, right?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: The whole thing, right?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because we want to we want to be our authentic selves with each other.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So all that stuff, you know, isn't the sexiest all the time.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: We are not taught how to maintain intimacy.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're just not.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what's missing.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was another reason.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I I saw this in a lot of my friends, a lot of my couples, a lot of my family who are still, you know, for by some miracle, they're still married.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: However, I certainly wouldn't want to be in any of those relationships, right?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's what doubles as intimacy is a lot of bickering, right?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of, a lot of because there's not that tenderness that arises naturally when we turn towards someone that we love on a regular basis with our open heart and with a curiosity of like let's let's get closer, let's explore something together, let's see how good we can feel in our bodies together.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where the practice comes in.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's it's not our fault.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And many, many people, Nadine, and it I feel it breaks my heart because many, many people are suffering because and blaming themselves.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then that causes isolation, that causes a lot of issues in in relationships, and that causes a lot of divorce.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: People have health issues, there's menopause, there's paramenopause, there's hormonal shifts, there's death in the families, there's stress, there's job losses, there's all kinds of tension and stress that are going to happen in our lives, not to mention, you know, all the stuff that's going on here in the US right now and in other places with rising fascism.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, there's there's we are going to have to deal with these things.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if we have like this drumbeat, you know, this heartbeat, if you will, of a practice that we know that is taking care of ourselves and that is really tending to our partnership, then that is what's going to strengthen and really uh ease all of those difficult times, including menopause and paramenopause.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I noticed a lot of difference in my desire, difference in sensitivity, difference.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at one point I'm like, I don't even think I have a clit anymore.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what to do with my clit.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: What happened?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it it came, it's coming back.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's different.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's different.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's learning to accept, be an acceptance of our aging bodies because everything is changing, right?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: We everything is always changing, including our bodies.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, okay, well, then how what feels good?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can I be just curious?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm uh um, you know, I like to call it the love laboratory that we're, you know, experimenting with love and pleasure, intimacy and connection.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we take it as an experiment, there's no wrong moves.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's no mistakes.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're just like, okay, now that didn't feel as good, but oh, that feels a little bit better.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe if you you know lighten the stroke a little bit, or maybe if you kiss right here, just wondering and being curious and then asking.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: So are you now in menopause?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like it was part of the journey?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like perimenopause, menopause, kind of that well, my experience is like, you know, it's probably a good 10 years of a transition that we go through.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it I wonder if that's kind of aligned with your experience.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and, you know, your sort of that kind of cold period that you talked about.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: And whether like we got that to look forward to at the other end.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like actually, I we started the sure thing before I was I was still in paramenopause.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we so I still was wanting that closeness.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was desiring that closeness of the heart, even if it wasn't always of you know, which often, because I was desiring the closeness of the heart, often what happens is we have responsive desire, which I can we can talk about the difference between responsive desire and spontaneous desire.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so responsive desire arises out of context and feeling safe and you know, feeling pleasure.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden it's like, oh yeah, I think I would like you to get that lube out.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that really sounds good.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was about I think about six years of paramenopause and pen, uh, you know, I I was, you know, I would have, I would have, I would bleed, and then it would be like three months, and then I would bleed, and then three months, and then and then then six months, and then I then it's be like, oh no, I was almost there, and then like 10 months, and then I'd have another right, you know, so it just okay.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: So and I think it it's a changing time, and it's very uh uh individual for me.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: There were things that help like black kohosh.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was I would have night sweats.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so and I still take a tincture of black kohosh, which is an abortative.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: So do not take it if you're trying to get pregnant, if you are pregnant, you know, unless you but it's that's an it's a natural abortative.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It also helps with night sweats.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that that was really helpful for me.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of friends who are on HR to hormone replacement therapy, and that really works for them.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: A couple of years ago, I was having a pain in my toe.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I there's a lot of toe stuff in in Aikido or toe.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went to a friend who's a a physical therapist, and she said, Well, you've you're starting to have some arthritis in your toe.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I think I'm not gonna get a I'm not gonna I'm gonna get a second opinion on that.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love you, honey, but I'm gonna get a second opinion.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I have another friend who's who's um an uh acupuncturist, and she's like, I'm gonna get you on um this herbal, it is called an feminescence.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Feminescence, it's herbal, it's got maca in it, but it's not only maca, it's maca.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And literally, about five days into taking this herbal supplement, it comes in a in a pill, um, capsule, my toe was fine.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then the like the next week, Bill and I are having our sure thing, and we're we are having penetrative sex.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Honey, something's feeling different in here.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I know, it really is.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's the feminiscence.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that has really, you know, provided some different things.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: So and and and some benefits that I didn't even know were were going to be.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was all about your toe.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was all about my toe, but all of a sudden I'm more lubricated because, you know, and things are feeling a little more softer in the chamber of myoni.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so that works for me.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, women uh to to um encourage, and I have a friend who's going through um some figuring out what's going to really support her through paramenopause at this moment.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so just don't give up, keep trying.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: There are different things, there are different things that that can work.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, you know, getting enough sleep, getting enough rest, having a pleasure practice, and it doesn't have to be sexual, but having some kind of a sure thing that is tending to yourself.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: It could be taking a long bath, it could be making a really delicious meal for yourself, it could be taking a long walk in the woods or going to the ocean, whatever it is that's really nourishing for your heart and for your body, that is that's what it's about.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Can you talk a little bit more to that?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because obviously there's um when you've you've been speaking already, the sure thing practice for you can well involve your partner and sensuality and sex uh often sex or orgasm.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you've just sort of mentioned that it doesn't necessarily have to be that, and that this is about um self-care and self-nourishment as well.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: So where does the line like where is there a line?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is the line blurry?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is it I like spirals?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: I prefer spirals to lines personally, yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I and it it is everything about the sure thing is up to you.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you get to say, I have so many suggestions, so many ideas, so many exercises in the book.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's an interactive playbook, really.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and so whatever it is that you personally want, you know, I there are there are people who who are uh who aren't interested in in sex and orgasm, they can still have a surface of practice because it is a about love replenishment, it is about nourishment and nurturance of ourselves and of one another.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, in the book, there's sexual instruction.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I talk about the deliberate orgasm, I talk about our wild sensual self, and uh so and there are a multitude of also suggestions of how you can practice a sure thing that don't that don't involve an any kind of sex.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really up to whoever is practicing what is your intention, what is your intention?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: But at the core, Nadine, is about falling more in love with ourselves because that's what happens, because when I am in unconditional love and acceptance with myself, then that overflows into my relationship and into my family, yeah, and into my work and into my community and out into the world.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so at the heart of the book, and if you're if you're interested in falling in unconditional love with yourself, get this book.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: This will really be uh a support and a guide and and like a friend.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like I I I wrote it as if I'm walking with you, and you're walking with me on this path to deeper deeper self-love and self-acceptance.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've been reading the book, so I I totally get that, and I would love to talk more about that because I feel like there's so much to unpack.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it there is really a lot of psychology as well as physiology or you know, sexuality, it's really um about there there is a lot in the book about becoming more self-aware, uh being more compassionate with ourselves.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I see lots of parallels really with uh having a spiritual practice.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um can you talk?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go back a little bit, and I'd just love to to hear your um what you have to say about shame, because I think this is something that's definitely associated with sex for many of us.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a you know, it's a taboo taboo subject.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're not supposed to be talking, we're not supposed to be here talking about it.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um right.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, who says that?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Who's who did say it?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: And like it runs so deep, doesn't it?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Who said it and why don't we listen to that guy?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because certainly it's a guy, and I would guess he's a white guy.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a white guy who's trying to tell us what to do.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I see your midlife rebel coming out here.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know it.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I call it in in the book, I call it the uh puritanical patriarchy.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: I define that for us as um essentially the air we breathe in, you know, the society we live in.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is is this puritanical?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I you know, I live in the US where the Puritans actually landed, right?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so it infused that ethos of work first, work is where what's valued, pleasure is unnecessary, you know, at all, and we just need to work.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you need to, and you need to, you know, that's the priority.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then the patriarchy, which is, you know, the misogynistic uh domination where men are supreme, right?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: And women are there to serve and to be uh, you know, to accommodate to the to the the the the needs of the men.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: What amazes me is that it it seems to be global.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't matter whether you're looking at tribes or you know, different cultures, there's this uh deep underlying oppression, well maybe it's not underlying, um, of women.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it like how is that even possible that it's a worldwide thing?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just can't fathom it.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and it is changing.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: I really believe it's because it is a worldwide thing, because the the domination culture is just that.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: It is there to dominate, and it has spread across the globe.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's been happening for thousands of years, and our the religious you know interpretation of Christianity and even Judaism and and other religions have aligned with that domination of women, domination of life, you know, domination of the earth herself.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so and women uh threaten that, like empowered women who are really connected to our Shakti, connected to you know our sexual power, our because our our sexual center, where is that?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's in our womb.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's where our creativity is, that's where our passion is, that's where all of that is.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so the patriarchy was designed to repress that, to sever and to not only repress that within individual women, but to pit women against each other.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so keep them fighting each other, right?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then they won't turn on the men to be like, no, enough.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same thing that's that's done with any kind of scapegoat or any kind of you know, turn on in in the US here, turn on the immigrants so that you won't turn on the ruling elite who are the ones who are uh really, you know, the ones who are uh repressing and oppressing the masses.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the patriarchy.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: What happens with shame and so and and how do how does the patriarchy dominate people is with fear.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so using fear and pitting each other against one another.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't collectively turn against the powers that be.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: With shame, it's used the exact same way that the patriarchy uses fear, except we turn it on ourselves.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a judgment.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there's maybe it's a judgment of a parent, yeah.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a societal judgment of, you know, you shouldn't be having sex, or something maybe happened when a lot of us when we were kids, we were maybe exploring something, exploring our bodies, totally natural, of course, and somebody saw us and shamed us because they were not open in their own sexuality or sensuality or conditioned in this puritanical patriarchy.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we have their judgment on us, and then we turn it on ourselves.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have done something wrong.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and so, and what it does to us is it has us isolate.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there have been studies that show that shame separates, shame represses, and shame um has us get smaller, right?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And has us disconnect, disconnect from ourselves and disconnect from people around us.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, we have to recognize that shame is being used as a weapon.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's that's its point.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Its point is to try and repress us and have us be small.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that part of the reason, I don't know if y'all are following the what's happening with the Epstein files, you know, just ridiculous.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Part of the reason I believe that the Justice Department released all of the names, many names of the survivors and even some photos of the survivors, right?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and of course they redacted all of the wealthy names of the of the pedophiles, right?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because they wanted to use shame as a weapon to try to, okay, this be public.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this that maybe that they'll get so ashamed that they'll, you know, go back into hiding and they won't.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's used against us.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: So let's recognize that this is being used as a weapon.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we say no, we see it for what it is.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: We see it for what it is, and we say, no, we are not going to be shamed.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: We are going to go back, and there's there's an exercise in the book that's called shedding the shackles of shame, where we can literally go back.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I have done this with myself, and I I when I need to, I do it again.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've led many people through it where we can go back to those moments where shame was kind of accosted us, right?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Where shame was weaponized, was used as a weapon against us by someone who knows that they probably had no idea what they were doing.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: They were in their own limited consciousness.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, however, it had an effect on us.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: We can go back to that moment and reclaim ourselves in that moment and rewrite what happened and see how shame is used and how shame how we were a victim to it, and then we reclaim our own sovereignty from the shame.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we have to do, and and uh to to really be fully fulfilled in our sexuality and embodied in our fullness is to reclaim uh and and not fall for uh getting sucked into being ashamed of something.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because we didn't do anything wrong.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: Shame is different than regret.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, regret is when we kind of miss the mark, right?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we uh, you know, said something to a loved one or to anyone that, you know, it slipped out, or we were really angry and we said something really mean, and you know, and we know we can do better.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so then you have to make amends, you know, you can maybe you apologize, whatever you need to do to clean that up.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Regret is a wonderful thing where you know we're not we we have our values and then we slip up and we make a mistake.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Shame is something that is put on us, okay, and that we then um adopt.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's about separating that out, discerning that that is not us, discerning whose voice is that.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Was that my dad?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the teacher?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the patriarchy?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I have a game that I call a name the shame game.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so as soon as I start to feel shame in myself, like a little hmm of it, or or in someone else, I say hello, shame.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: In a second.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, what's going on?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I turn towards it.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then whose voice is that?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Who is that?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and just discerning who is that and recognizing that it it's it's not nothing about me.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: It is not about me.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just trying to repress me.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, when I was writing the book and I was writing this part about shame, no, I was I I was um I am very involved in in my local community.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was imagining um what became the sure thing love experiment, which I'll tell you about.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in my head, I started to think, well, who's gonna do that?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: And who's gonna even want to do that?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and people are literally dying.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: People are starving right now, people are dying, people are getting abducted.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who has time for this pleasure?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is ridiculous.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I start, and then I was like, wait a second, whose voice is that?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I stopped and I started playing Name the Shame game because I'm like, oh my goodness.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was a friend of mine who is a hardcore activist, and it and I was like, okay, I'm making up that this is what she's going to project onto me.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what did it do?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was trying to squish my creative idea, ideations in that moment and my passion for bringing this out into the world.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I saw that, I was like, no, I'm not gonna give in to that make made up possible projection of shaming myself so I can belittle this energy of sensuality and passion and pleasure.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, okay, well, I gotta weave that into the book because this is important, because this is how we mind fuck ourselves, right?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: And because of being part in the puritanical patriarchy that the society that we live in right now, we we have to recognize that, of course, that's what that domination wants us to do.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's done, been doing it for such a long time that it's passed on from generation to generation, not to mention the potential for it to be in our literally in our DNA, you know.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I yeah, the book is just um great in that respect, because it really does help you to start unpacking all of the all of the limiting beliefs that we have about ourselves.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us about the pantheon, the inner pantheon?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's such a good thing.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, that's so cool.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, who's got the mic?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right! I love that game.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love that game.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's isn't that that's so empowering.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for asking that question.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So about over about 25 years ago, I was uh reading a book by Barbara Marks Hubbard that was she talked about local selves and naming like she was talking about a high self and then there are local selves.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I then kind of adopted that idea.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: I started like trying to figure out different parts of my personality.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um I thought, you know, it feels more like it's an inner pantheon, like the Roman and Greek pantheons, the gods and goddesses, that we have our own inner pantheon, all the different parts, all the spiritual parts, all the personality, all the aspects.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started to name them because as soon as I named a part, I could somebody said the other day, yeah, name it to claim it.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's what the therapist says.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, so you can you claim it and you can uh get to know it, and then you can see, oh, that's so I have Penelope, my inner perfectionist planner.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I, you know, she's really helpful in a lot of circumstances.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm parenting, not so great.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's a little like heavy-handed and overbearing, you know.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I've learned to be like, nope, take the mic out of Penelope's hand when I'm parenting, you know, better to give to the great mother part.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so really identifying all of these different parts of ourselves.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And in all of our inner pantheons, there's a wounded child.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's always a wounded child, our our inner kid, and there's an inner lover and perhaps a wild sensual self.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: For me, they're both the same, the inner lover and wild sensual self.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Some people have two different aspects.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's all I have a disassociated D.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: That was the part that was very active in the first like 30 years of my life, accommodating Astrid, you know, lots of different righteous Rita.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, righteous man.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: So playing with these different parts, and then, like you said, who's got the mic?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you can imagine uh you they're all sitting at like like King Arthur's round table, but we're at a consciousness round table with all the different parts of you.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Your inner pantheon are all sitting around, and there's one microphone in the center of the table.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: So only one part of you can talk at any one moment.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so as we get to know these different parts, we can then feel and sense who's got the mic, and then figure out is that the best person to have the mic in this moment, or is it someone else?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what I've found with myself and with the people that I work with and I support are that if when we are wanting to expand our capacity for pleasure, take on a sure thing practice, a practice like this, we have to make sure that all parts of ourselves are along for the ride, especially our inner kid.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because if the inner kid is not feeling comfortable and safe, then it's not gonna end up how we want it to end up.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna fulfill our intentions.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to really take our little kid into our lap.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love the self-hug, uh, you know, get him up.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And in the book, there's a guided journey to connect with this part of yourself and really get to know, you know, all these different parts so that it's so empowering.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's really fun.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like if something is feeling uh like if if my partner and I are engaged in in a sure thing and something's like not not feeling well, what I do is I'm like, well, wait a second, who has the mic right now?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's going on?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then if it's not Vivacious Viv, who's my wild sensual self, then I'm pretty much gonna take that mic out of whoever's hand that is and give it to Vivacious Viv if what I'm wanting to do right now is practice a sure thing.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I'm if what I'm wanting to do right now is sit on my meditation cushion and do my zazen practice, you know, my sitting practice, then I'm then, you know, Viv is not the best person to give the mic to in that moment.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Penelope may be okay because she's really good at like monitoring my thoughts and things.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: But so it it becomes this game of really getting to know ourselves and uh being facile with shifting the mic to suit whatever the situation.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: It brings us back really, doesn't it, to uh presence taking a moment and actually beginning to observe ourselves in that moment and uh yeah, make more conscious decisions about um the choice, yeah, the choices we make, the way that we speak, the yeah, who's holding the mic.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love that it's such a such great imagery, so simple, but really makes so much sense.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so as I've said before, I feel like this the short thing practice in the book, in uh it it's not that simple, really, is it?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like there is a bit of work that we need to do to really come face to face with who we are in the most positive way, and yeah, just start to observe what's going on in our lives, why we might not want to have a sure thing, even like um is that truth your truth, or is it something that you've learned from an experience?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: Is it because of shame?
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: Is it because you know you're not supposed to do these things, and that's what you were brought up, you know, brought up to be a good girl, or whatever it is.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, and really sort of take some time to work on yourself so that you can get to a point where you're able to get it on with your husband.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and ultimately yes, it takes effort, it takes effort, and it takes time, and it takes commitment, and it takes devotion.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's what are you devoted to?
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I I'll say again the intention coming back to something that you really want.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the intention that you set for your sure thing is something that lights you up when you hear it, it turns you on and you say, Yes, I want that, because that is what you're devoted to.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I love this definition of devotion, is um serving something with love, something serving something I love with love.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you're serving your intention, whatever that is.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you decide.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is what propels you and to recognize that, yeah, it's going to take some effort.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the return is, you know, uh what I found is that after you several weeks, several months, you begin to just, it's just that's the rhythm.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the the overflow that comes back from just showing up and turning toward yourself or turning toward your partner and asking the question, what would be most pleasurable right now, could simply start like that.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: It is just uh an overflow of abundant energy.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and that I I I I you know try it, don't take my word for it.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Try it for yourself and recognize that there is not there's nothing to be ashamed of, and there's nothing, even if it's been many, many years since you felt turned on, since you felt like you wanted to really be explore pleasure in your body or with your partner, it's okay.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not your fault.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't do anything wrong.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: You can start right now, and it's about just setting that intention.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like putting, like if we're on a in a canoe, setting that oar, like where we're headed, you know, we're headed for the bank, you know.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you just set that ore in and you're head, you're gliding down the river.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell you, the momentum of the energy, I it feels like because I don't know, maybe because of the puritanical patriarchy that has dominated the energies of our beautiful Mama Gaia, that I just feel like there is this gush and geyser of energy that is just waiting for us to tap into and just like crank open, be willing to crank open, and then it just whoosh, it just wants to flood out and surround us and fill us up and nurture us and connect us with each other and bring more joy.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I just really I I I I feel that.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah, that's uh pretty inspiring.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you know, for me, I just think it's worth doing the work, isn't it?
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: If we're trying to, as uh a female collective, let's say, undo some of that oppression or all of it, yes, then you know the yeah, the amount of um well freedom and and empowerment that that we can tap into.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that yes, that's inspiring stuff.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it opens up that this creative channel.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so much opens.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so even as you're doing the work, as you say, in the playbook, their journal pages, use your own journal, come up with you.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe dance it out, you may want to shake it out, you may want to, you know, paint, paint yourself, you know, just really letting ourselves loose, you know, letting our wild women just lead.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they're in us that instinctual, innate part, primal energy.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even though it's been totally, you know, repressed and tried to, you know, for for millennia, yeah, it's there.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's time.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: She's ready.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's time.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: She's ready to roar.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Ilana, we have hit our hour, and um, it's been really, yeah, a really insightful conversation.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um I yeah, I've been reading your book, as I said, and I encourage others, the listeners today to to get grab a copy.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna share all of your details in the show notes and in our guest directory so that people can find you easily.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: Any closing words as we um say farewell?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is our moment, ladies.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is our moment because we have to stand firm in our in our hearts, in our yonis, with our this Shakti energy rolling, so that we can trailblaze the path for so many people, forward and backwards.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is the time when it feels like it's getting stronger, that it's really, I believe, the patriarchy is hanging on by its fingernails.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it is this is a time of dissolution.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, the more that we can be really vivid and clear in our own selves, in our authenticity, in what feels really good and right to us, we can we will not be bullied.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot be gaslit when we are solid and clear and connected in with that energy.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: So join me and we are doing this.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it, girl.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining me, Alana.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's been really cool.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: Hey there, Rebel.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Midlife Rebel Podcast.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you'd like to support the show, you can buy me a coffee by going to Buy MeACoffee forward slash Midlife Rebel Podcast.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.