Latest / The Growth Class with Phil Masiello / Brand Positioning Strategy: Winning Markets by Knowing Your Customer with Brian Leeper

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Brand Positioning Strategy: Winning Markets by Knowing Your Customer with Brian Leeper · The Growth Class with Phil Masiello

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody and welcome back to the Growth class.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Phil Mastiello, and today we're diving into the world of manufacturing, global sourcing, and the sheer discipline it takes to scale in some of the world's largest retailers.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Our guest today is an astute business leader.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's mastered the art of creating sustainable profits dreams in a high growth, often turbulent environment.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's the president of Floral Services, a company that provides the essential infrastructure for the floral industry.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you've shopped at Home Depot, Home Goods, Kroger, Safeway, you've seen his work and soon you'll see it in Costco as well.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's an expert in brand building, raising capital, and most importantly, staying level-headed when the stakes are the highest.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: So please welcome to the growth class Brian Leaper.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Brian, thank you for taking the time to come on and and uh share your wisdom and insights.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Phil.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: That that was quite an intro.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I will try to leave up, live up to that expectation.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So uh why don't you take us back?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know you got an interesting story about how you got here.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't you take us back and then tell take us to where you are today?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh started my career in uh consumer products and grew to a position where I was helping owners build their companies and sell them.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And at a at one point I decided that was that was fun, but I would like to build a company and uh maybe someday sell it.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I went through a series of startups and learned some very, very painful lessons along the way.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I don't know that I could have gotten where I am without suffering through that, unfortunately.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to sound depressing, but you know, there's there's a really interesting skill set it takes to make a successful entrepreneur, and and there's gonna be some blood, sweat, and tears along the way.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So uh after making a number of mistakes along the way, I kind of returned a little bit to my roots in consumer products and I acquired a company from an entrepreneur and realized that what I really excelled at uh was growing companies from really that very initial startup phase, um, which was, you know, we're all really good at something.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the hardest things I had to learn was to let go of my ego and realize you can't be good at everything.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a critical skill when you're an owner because don't try.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Be good at what you're great at.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's your gift, and outsource everything else.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So uh here we are today.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um we are out of the startup phase, we're in the scale phase.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we've been pretty fortunate to kind of navigate the overly exciting times since COVID.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we're kind of looking to launch our next chapter.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's the short story.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's an interesting point.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I also learned that lesson the hard way.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um with my first uh business when I started it, I had a huge ego, uh, terrible leadership skills, terrible process management skills, and thought it wrongfully so, that as the entrepreneur, as the owner, as the founder, that I had to have the answer to every single question.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I had to know everything, I had to be everywhere.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And although the business itself, the the the store, it was a retail store, and the store was busy and and we were making sales, the the people who work there, I uh to still to this day I feel so sorry for the people who work for me because it was just utter chaos every day.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I do coach a lot of entrepreneurs and I do coach them to get get rid of the ego.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I've learned over the years through many failures and and successes how to do this correctly.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it's it's a tough thing.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh and a lot of entrepreneurs it's it's very common for entrepreneurs to to have that sort of mentality of I have to be in control when you really don't.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're supposed to be, you know, if you're the guy that's laying the bricks, then who's designing the house?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a really tricky needle to thread because on one hand, entrepreneurs, we we bend the world to our will, right?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: We do what everyone says can't be done.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that requires ego, confidence, um, perhaps to an extreme extent.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to balance that with to your point, you can't be good at everything.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we all have to do that when we're in startup mode and someone's got to take the trash out.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, um, it doesn't matter what title you assign yourself to.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very interesting balancing act to have that drive to go do something that people say can't be done, but at the same time recognize you can't control everything.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't try to control everything, and you can't be great at everything.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So Right.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh it's it is it is amazing that we do try to uh be great at everything, but you have to put ego aside.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned that a bunch of years ago, so I have no ego anymore.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like my wife has like my wife reminds me constantly that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you could be on television, you could be doing this a show, I have sh I have written books, I've done all these different things, started companies, successfully exited, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, I'm still the guy that picks up the dog poop when I take the dogs for a walk.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: That sort of brings you down to reality a bit.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say something interesting about my story that might be relevant to the audience is the reason I had this opportunity is because the entrepreneur I bought this company from couldn't see past him being doing everything.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So in a very strange way, my opportunity existed because he could never get there or learn that lesson.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And he did very well.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: He was a very successful um business person.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And for all of his skill set, it it what at the end of the day, that's what prevented him from going on and became my opportunity.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um there is something to be learned there, and it's a very difficult thing about knowing when to let go, recognizing um that you can't teach someone to ride a bike by riding the bike for them.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be some falls, there's gonna be some blood and some tears.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're gonna leverage other people, which you have to to get out of the sole proprietor mode, you have to stand back and recognize, you know what, I may, even if you are great at something, I'm able to do this spreadsheet better than anybody.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I can't keep doing it though.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna hand it off to someone who maybe will never do it as well as you did.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: But you've got to focus on the drivers of the business.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's what the leader of the organization does.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um, it was a little fascinating snippet from my story because I wouldn't have had this opportunity if I hadn't run into someone who couldn't make that jump.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you explain your business a little bit?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think we talked about what the business is.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So sure.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're a uh small format home decor company.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what does that mean?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: We design um decor items.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: You uh our core accounts are Albertsons and all their banners.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we're the lead provider of any hard goods you would find in their floral departments.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: So basically anything's that's not alive, and we do about 80, 90 percent of that.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then our other core category um would be artificial plants.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our key customer there is home goods and some of the other TGX banners.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we again we are the lead supplier there.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So um when you stratify consumer products into good, better, best or basic premium, super premium, um, we're in that middle premium category.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't want to fight, you know, it's not a race to the bottom.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um we design everything in-house.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh our competitors are, our customers are competitors as well.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to outperform them.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we um design, we import a lot of our smaller items, and then we have some light manufacturing here in the US for the larger items.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we our our model is to provide amazing designs at the best value and to push that through um brick and mortar um national retailers.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it's a it's a different type of business than than we've usually seen, right?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Usually for us, we see a lot of e-commerce, we see a lot of uh uh omni-channel.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And but usually it's it's items, it's it's fashion, it's beauty, it's it's uh you know, personal care, food, things like that.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: You usually don't see too many people doing you know artificial uh foliage and uh and all the things around it.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we cover the gamut.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we have an unusually high number of product categories.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Companies like mine tend to have many would be very, very narrow, whereas we have a couple dozen different product categories.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: We have a plush line, we have a candle division.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the interesting thing is the big play for us would be online.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, some of my startup experience and other lives have been in that space.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's our big play.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we are structured as a cash cow as opposed to a flip.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um you never know um where that goes.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: But for as with any owner, I you know, I spend time trying to figure out, okay, so do I keep the the wheels on the bus turning and we grow incrementally, which is great, and we have a track record now.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: We've you know um dodged many of the bullets flying our way, you know, or do I lean into my core as an entrepreneur and say, okay, what's next?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what's next, arguably for us, is we have the product, the value, the design, branding and going online would then be the next big play for us.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: But are you sell you're not selling at all online yet?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um not yet.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And partially because having you know learned my lessons, you know, going online for us requires a pretty good-sized um war chest from a marketing standpoint, right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um so in a strange place, we're doing it sort of reverse in terms of what a lot of startups do because we have the product, we have the the ability to design it, we know we already have the right market value because we're winning with that.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: So now it'd be taking that and launching that almost like an internal startup to go online.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course that that marketplace is massive.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So Do you have the brand?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, that would be the important step before anything because uh you know, I mean when you look online, I mean I haven't done the research, but uh we certainly could.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm sure that on Amazon there are a million cheap sellers.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so the brand becomes the utmost important because even no matter what you do, no matter where you do it uh online, you know, the first place that people see your product, it doesn't matter if it's social, it doesn't matter if it's an ad, it doesn't matter, they're gonna go to Amazon.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you what you don't want them, you you have to make sure that whatever you're doing is differentiating from the stuff that's on Amazon, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would imagine, especially in that category, uh you know, I can just imagine knowing some of the people that sell or some of the or seeing some of the sellers on there, I can imagine the that what that category looks like what that category looks like.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, probably Timu and uh and and and the others like that.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So well and and you mentioned fashion and beauty and and for us, you know, one of the key components is someone who's gonna bring something into their home, that's a representation of them, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the market has shifted from where it was five years ago where um we just consumers were leaning into quantity cheap, as cheap as they could get it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been a very positive shift, at least for us, is consumers are still spending, um, but they're being very particular about it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, our core consumer um on the data is still a um woman, probably in her 20s to 40s, who is making buying decisions.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And in this case, she wants a better reflection of her.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: She wants someone to come in and when she makes a selection, have it be a positive uh reflection, showing some taste and thought.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's great for us because that's who we are.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And knowing who you are, I would just say for an entrepreneurial audience is critical.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: You you can't be everything to everybody, and there are many compelling draws like, well, maybe we should do this and do that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be a sniper.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we know who we are.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the question is you bring out is how do we educate an audience, reach that audience, and create a transaction?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So back to that digital war chest that requires a pretty healthy investment to build that foundation to create a brand.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I've lost a lot of a lot of hours to brand conversations, so I definitely have some PTSD over that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh it's interesting because um you know, we we do a tremendous amount of work uh on connected television with with the brands that are our clients.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing we tell them, there's two two keys to being successful with it.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because connected TV can be very, very profitable for an existing brand, you know, as a as an additional point to supplement, actually to drive your online because the retargeting is so s is so strong.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to know exactly who you are and who your customer is.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't know that, then the way that connected television works, and and all advertising today is programmatic, you're really focusing in on a persona, not in traditional television, you're focused on a channel and you know, TBS or or sports network or whatever.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Here you're focused on a persona.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't know what that persona is, you can't be very broad because then you're just you're not gonna talk to the right people.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the second thing is you have to have a great piece of creative, something that stops people emotionally and not just with words, but emotion.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have those two, we don't want to do it because it'll just be wasting your money and everybody else's money and so and and time, and then you're not gonna be happy, we're not gonna be happy.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing to me how many brands that are in that say 10 million to 50 million a year range that still don't have a strong handle on who their customer is.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: They just still think it's too broad.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we were in the shaving business, and and you could argue, and people have argued, well, everybody shaves.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, that's true.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody shaves, but if you're over 45, it's going to be really difficult to convert you to a new razor because you've been using the same razor for 20 years.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so it becomes more difficult.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you're under 45 and you're over 28, because you don't get serious about shaving until you're about 28 years old and you're in the workforce, that's when you've got the opportunity to convert people, both men and women.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, people are it's it's amazing to me how how few brands really have studied who their customer is.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, and and for the audience, you know, Phil is touching on something that's so critical.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you notice how very quickly he broke down a category that just seems completely homogenous, right?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody shaves.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna be successful, that precision and knowing exactly how you matter to the market, I can't underscore how critical that is.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you and you have to be different.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: What does different mean?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have something that is gonna make someone change a pattern of behavior.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the most difficult things in the world is changing a human being's pattern of behavior.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you really have to understand that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I'll share just a quick you know comment on um Walmart, who I've done business with in the past, and I'm a fan of Walmart.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they get um a lot of negative press about the fact that they work with people and then next thing you know, Walmart sourcing it directly.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is their model.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: They know who they are.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: They are trying to deliver the best product at the cheapest price.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: So their mission, if they can find something and find a way to get it for less and give that to their consumer, that's who they are.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: They are incredibly precise.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can't differentiate against them, there you're you're going to lose that battle.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So why are you gonna survive in in this Walmart landscape, for example, against one of the greatest supply chains on the face of the planet?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have a difference in something that someone's gonna go, I have to make a change.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, you know, and that it's a it's a challenge.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, you know, you bring up a great point because every, you know, I work with a lot of startups uh on the coaching side and I work with a lot of young companies, companies that are trying to scale.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And every one of them, everybody who has a consumer product, wants to get into retail immediately.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I say, okay, that's great.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, if you want to walk into retail, you have to walk in there with a strong point of difference.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're the buyer, right, and we were acquired what one company that I had was acquired by a retailer, and I went and had to work with them for a couple of years.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I understand it clearly.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're walking into a buyer, now the buyer doesn't have a problem.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: The buyer's got his space filled up, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care what shelf it is, that space is filled up.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say pasta sauce.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: You've got every pasta sauce in the world.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's already there.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now here come here you come with your pasta sauce.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: He knows how much he's gonna get for this space in gross profit per store per week.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're coming in and saying, I want that space.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And he you're an unknown.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, why are he is he gonna give up that space, which he's essentially giving up money?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So he's essentially putting it his job at risk because his numbers are gonna change.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why is he gonna do that for you?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's the difference?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: What are you bringing to the table?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just walking in saying, you know, I've got this pasta sauce, it's just as good as, you know, so-and-so's pasta sauce, okay.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Are you doing any marketing?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a have you built an audience online?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Have you built an audience on Amazon?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: What have you done to show that people want this product, know this product?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: If he's just gonna put it out there, what are you gonna put into it?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then what's gonna happen is because you don't have any of that, he's gonna ask you for slotting fees, rebates, discounts, accruals.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna protect his margin.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where that's where the pain comes in.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where people are always, you know, oh, you know, the Walmart is so terrible with its supplier, the Walmart is this.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've done business with Walmart.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that they were a very clean operation.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I thought that they were one of the more ethical operators out there.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have to, but it but we always went in there with something different.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: If we went in there uh to try and take an incumbent out, it's a totally different ball game.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And a great turn of phrase is there is no undefended market.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if it were easy and obvious and you could make money at it, 20 people had got will have gotten there before you have.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is no undefended market.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: The game is you're taking something away from someone and they're not gonna let it go easily.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there it is a little bit of a of a battle out there.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and and that's just the the world we live in, unfortunately.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But understanding back to the core is how are you different?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you gonna get someone to change their behavior?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Very difficult to be successful without knowing that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no question about it.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's a woman named Sally Hogshead who um I've done business with.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: She's written books on the whole subject.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: She's a marketer from from way back, and she always talks about she's got this quadrant where she says, you know, you can you can be better.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's four quadrants, but two of them are really, you know, you're just as good or you're not but you know, the the ones you can be better or you can be different.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And better is so subjective that it's really not a positioning.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: But different is a positioning.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes for it doesn't matter whether you have a product brand, personal brand, a SAS brand, it doesn't matter.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: You have to try and do things a little bit differently to get people to stop to want to talk to you, talk to your product, talk to your company, and like you said, change their behavior.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and to your point, different can be there's so many ways to be different.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned shaving, and I'm certainly no I I know shaving, but I'm no expert in the marketplace.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, Dollar Shave Club, they they Their difference was a delivery model, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that proved to have the enough for people to go, oh, I need that.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So being different doesn't mean that you have to be the sexiest product on the market or the cheapest product on the market or have the best brand influencer behind you.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's many different ways to be different.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to isolate the one that will create that change in consumer purchasing.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: See, for us, when we were doing it, when we were in the shaving business, I really didn't care about the razor.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody shaves and everybody knew the price of shaving and the price of razors.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: What we were selling was the ultimate shave, the package.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: We had, because we came out of the beauty business and we we were selling the whole package.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I was doing that was because look, the cost of acquisition online for shaving is is is somewhere in the$40 to$50 range, right?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: To acquire a new customer, which means that you're either going to hang on the long-term value or you're going to try and get your initial order to be over$60 or$70.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were selling pre-shave, post-shave.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we had a great shave cream.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really the focus for us was all the ancillary products, not necessarily the razor.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: We knew the razor was going to resonate, made in the USA, three blade, five blade, men and women.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we would sell it with 12 cartridges for a significantly low price.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Harry's does the same thing.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Harry's razors, they've got that$5 package.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Who can resist it?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody can resist it.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: $5, you get a handle, you get two cartridges, and you get a small thing of shave cream for$5.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's impossible to turn down.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what do they get for that?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: They get your email address, they've got you, they can, they can then start sending you out uh emails and and you get to the site, they've got a million different hair care, they've got face care, they've got body care for men.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, that$5 is just lowering their acquisition cost.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everybody looks at it and goes, oh, they're losing money.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're losing money, but they're getting it back on the average sale and they're getting it back on the long-term value.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not really losing money.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's in Again, I think um just trying to think back to that infamous, you know, what would you tell your younger self?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I think some of the things the the precision you're talking about in understanding the cost of acquisition, what how you get your ROI on a certain activity related to your consumer, this is the kind of unfun homework for an entrepreneur that you really have to be a master of to win your category.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the fun parts, the product side, and you know, there's a lot of a lot of really fun parts, but you have to master these gritty details to be successful.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh it's true.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a and you have to and those gritty details, though, sort of set you apart, right?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: They they they push you in a different direction.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I have one quick story, one of my favorite ones, um, back on you know, what makes that behavior change.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: This one was a rare failure for one of my favorite retailers, which is Costco.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've done a lot of business with them.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I find them to be a great company to work with.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and like I said, they have a very clear mission.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: They are delivering value for their members, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And for them, value doesn't mean cheap.
• 25:24
  unknown: Right.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Value could be a, I'm just picking numbers out of the way, a$120 bottle of premium alcohol.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, this is great, right?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So uh they had a product, uh Uncrustables by Smuckers, which was a huge thing in my house.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: My kids loved it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I ate a lot of those too.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And Costco does what Costco does best, which is okay.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this is fantastic.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a high velocity product.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: How can we create more value for our members?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they worked with their supply base and came up with a Kirkland branded peanut butter and jelly, essentially an encrustable.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's their mission, right?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're not doing what they're not supposed to be doing.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing, which is help their members have value.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, and and you can't get it right all the time.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this for me was a rare miss, but it was something that really struck me because, you know, the crustables disappeared and the Kirkland brand showed up and it was cheaper and it looked the same.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I eat one and taste the same.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, great.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I go home one day and I'm like, and my wife's like, you need to go to Safeway and buy encrustables.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: We got this big box of she's like, yeah, the kids won't eat it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, look, I know their model.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know that the factory they're getting this stuff from is as good, if not better.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: It is, I've eating them.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: It tastes the same.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, right, now hop in the car and go and get encrustables.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And to this day, it mystifies me because there's no rational explanation.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So were we the canary and the coal mine?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: But the, you know, give it a few months.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And what is back in the case at Costco?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uncrustables.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there is something to that product that defied all of the other logical things.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, you know, they get it right 99% of the time.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: This was just a rare one, and I'm sure that drove them crazy too, because how could this be?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, having that unique factor, that difference factor is, you know, this is a great example where smokers, I'm sure, was thrilled, right?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because they were back in the, you know, back in their slot.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, but it's it's kind of a fascinating view on something is there.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And despite having the right model, it still didn't change consumer behavior.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have the same story, but it just a different product.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we were, when my kids were young, my wife and I went to Costco once a week and we bought stuff.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter, Viv, loved ego waffles.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and the homestyle waffle, the ego homestyle waffles.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And she ate four of them every morning before school.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And Costco has a 36-count, uh, looks like an ego waffle.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so we bought that and we brought it home, took them out of the box, put them in the freezer, threw the box away so she didn't see the brand, and wouldn't eat them.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: She tried them one time, she went, these are disgusting.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm like, What?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you say they're disgusting?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I bought some ego waffles, and I'm I'm sitting there with both of them tasting them, going, I don't get the difference.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm saying it to my wife, I go, I don't get the difference.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And she's going, there's something in it she sees.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not, so you know, we had to go and buy ego waffles because she wouldn't, she wouldn't eat them.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And she didn't know.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't know they were Costco brand.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: She just thought it was a bad batch.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So those brands clearly they they had that difference factor nailed down to the extent that they successfully defended their slot.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I don't want to sound like a broken record on a topic, but it it is one of those things where if you're going to launch a product or a venture or business and service, whatever it is, there's just no substitute for understanding what that difference factor is and how that resonates with a consumer to the extent that they will only go that way.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh listen, we're out of time.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we've got to sort of wrap this up.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any last minute things you want to tell everybody?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: How do people get in touch with you if they want to?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do people uh look at your product if they want to?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um the I would just say for every entrepreneur, it's a it's a bloody battle.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So hang in there.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lonely road, as you probably heard.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm a huge fan of entrepreneurs.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um stay the course.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh it is a rewarding journey, despite the the bruising.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and uh, you know, lean into your floral hard goods and fake plants.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we appreciate it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you listening, the takeaway today is clear winning isn't just about the product, it's about the systems, the brand, the supply chain, the tenacity, the focus on profitability every stage of the way, understanding who your customer is, understanding what they want, understanding what they like about your product.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: So uh you can find uh more about Brian, I'm sure, on LinkedIn.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh you can also uh look at his his website.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's floralservices.net.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um keep in mind it is uh we don't transact on that site, so it is extremely simplistic.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe that will change someday, but um we'll see.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um and again, as always, keep focused on the outcomes that matter, and we'll see you next time on the growth class.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Phil.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.