Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / The Power Of Experience: Finding Harmony Over Balance, Scaling a $2 Billion Brand & The Future of High-Performance Footwear with HOKA's Erika Gabrielli

Transcript

The Power Of Experience: Finding Harmony Over Balance, Scaling a $2 Billion Brand & The Future of High-Performance Footwear with HOKA's Erika Gabrielli · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

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  Speaker 1: Trust your intuition, like you know, maybe even more than
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: what you think. Followed that lead and trust that.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Hey, EMILYA Badi, here, you are listening to another episode
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  Speaker 2: of Hurdle, a podcast featuring the mindset, secrets and true
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  Speaker 2: stories and the most inspiring women in sports and wellness,
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  Speaker 2: empowering you to live a healthier, happier, more motivated life
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  Speaker 2: and of course, conquer your own hurdles.
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  Speaker 3: Today, I am excited.
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  Speaker 2: To welcome Erica Gabrielli, the vice president of Global Marketing
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  Speaker 2: at Cooca, to the show. Eric has been a driving
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  Speaker 2: force behind the brand's incredible growth, helping lead Hoka to
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  Speaker 2: a massive two billion dollar revenue milestone last year. In
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  Speaker 2: this conversation, Erica opens up about the maximal movement, how
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  Speaker 2: Hoka went from being a counterculture niche brand in ultra
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  Speaker 2: running to an industry leader, and comfort and innovation building
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  Speaker 2: authentic brands, why staying true to core values like curiosity
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  Speaker 2: and inclusivity is the key to scaling without losing your soul,
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  Speaker 2: career evolution, her journey from early days at red Bull
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  Speaker 2: and Adidas to spending over fifteen years within the Decker's
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  Speaker 2: brand portfolio, and the power of listening why. She believes
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  Speaker 2: that the best marketing isn't about controlling a narrative, but
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  Speaker 2: about co creation within the community. Whether you yourself are aspiring
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  Speaker 2: to work in the field of sports, you're interested in running,
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  Speaker 2: a dedicated athlete, or just someone looking for the confidence
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  Speaker 2: about on yourself, Erica's perspective on trusting your intuition and
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  Speaker 2: embracing the imperfect path is exactly what you've got to
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  Speaker 2: hear today. Make sure you're following along with Hurdle over
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: on social It's over at Hurdle podcast. You can also
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: check out Iheartwoman's Sports. Over at Iheartwomen's Sports and me
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: over at Emily A Body. Listen to Hurdle with Emily
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  Speaker 2: Body on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
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  Speaker 2: get your podcasts.
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  Speaker 3: And with that, let's get to it. Let's get to
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  Speaker 3: hurdling today.
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  Speaker 2: I am sitting down with Erica Gabrielli. She's the VP
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  Speaker 2: of Global Marketing at Hoka. How are we doing today, Erica,
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to Hurdle.
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  Speaker 1: Wonderful, Thank you, thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be with you here in sunny
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  Speaker 2: Los Angeles. Not to rub it in, but there are
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  Speaker 2: currently two feet of snow waiting for me in New York.
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  Speaker 4: I know it's a bit brutal.
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  Speaker 1: It's a bit brutal, you know, some of the benefits
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  Speaker 1: we have of being in California.
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  Speaker 2: I was going to say, this is your every day,
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  Speaker 2: this is what you're used to being in California, girl.
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  Speaker 4: Yes it is.
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  Speaker 1: I actually live in Santa Barbara, so just a couple
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  Speaker 1: hours north of here. But yeah, it's not necessarily what
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  Speaker 1: I always expected. I grew up kind of in the
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  Speaker 1: mountains and definitely more in the snow, but you can't
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  Speaker 1: beat it, especially in the winter.
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  Speaker 2: Living it in California is a bit different than where
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  Speaker 2: you began.
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  Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite over the other.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if I could say a favorite. I
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  Speaker 1: think I did grow up a little bit of a
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  Speaker 1: mountain kid and ties to that, but I think more
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  Speaker 1: than anything, it's sort of like that passion for the outdoors,
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  Speaker 1: and you have it in both places. So I feel
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  Speaker 1: very privileged for the spaces I've been able to live
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  Speaker 1: and be able to tap into that. It's just a different,
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  Speaker 1: you know, zone than what that looks like in California.
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  Speaker 1: But you can't be having both mountains the Sierras, the beach,
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  Speaker 1: good weather year round, which sometimes we had a little
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  Speaker 1: more snow, but you know we can we can always
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  Speaker 1: figure that out.
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  Speaker 2: Well, here we are in sunny California for an exciting
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  Speaker 2: moment for Hoka.
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  Speaker 3: You want to tell me what we're here for.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, we are here for the launch of our clo
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  Speaker 1: X one three point zero, our lightest super shoe ever
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  Speaker 1: and something that we know will be a real game
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  Speaker 1: changer in terms of when it means on race day.
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  Speaker 2: For those that may not completely understand what a super
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  Speaker 2: shoe is, want to provide some color, Well.
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  Speaker 1: A super shoe is basically a combination of everything that
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  Speaker 1: we have from the geometries to the materials, to plates,
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  Speaker 1: to technology that really represents sort of fastest in class
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  Speaker 1: and particularly for what it means towards really setting uh prs,
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  Speaker 1: breaking Peeb's and all those other things. And again, it's
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  Speaker 1: it's a huge inroads and a huge focus for us
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  Speaker 1: at Hokah in terms of helping our runners get faster
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  Speaker 1: and achieve their goals.
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  Speaker 2: And it's a very different shoe than maybe someone would
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  Speaker 2: think of when you say the brand name Hoka Hokah
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  Speaker 2: for a long time synonymous with a very specific type
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  Speaker 2: looking sneaker.
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  Speaker 3: You now have become embraced for this.
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to I don't want to classify her,
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  Speaker 2: and I don't want to body shame her. Sure, but
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  Speaker 2: she's a little bigger of a girl and people have
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  Speaker 2: come to know and loved the brand because of that.
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  Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about that and how people
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  Speaker 2: have embraced this from Hokah and why that's great for
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  Speaker 2: you guys.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think again, you know, from our origins
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  Speaker 1: and what really inspired the Hokah brand was a level
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  Speaker 1: of inclusivity and we want to represent that. But ultimately
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  Speaker 1: it did come from athlete inspiration, Right, how can we
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  Speaker 1: find not just comfort, butt speed, but acceleration? You know,
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  Speaker 1: it started on the trails and it's really that inception
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  Speaker 1: in terms of what that origin story was that unlocked
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  Speaker 1: actually movement for many more people.
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  Speaker 4: So I think that's.
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  Speaker 1: Really the power of Hokah, you know, and ultimately that
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  Speaker 1: we do want people to be more comfortable, but we
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  Speaker 1: also want them to you know, be bold, make that progress,
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  Speaker 1: hit that perform whatever their performance goal might be. Sometimee
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  Speaker 1: that's just in accessibility of movement. Other times it's serving
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  Speaker 1: you know, elite athletes again on race day and making
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  Speaker 1: sure that they can achieve all of their goals. So
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  Speaker 1: I think really the breath and death is still very
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  Speaker 1: true to to who Hokah is and what we embrace
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  Speaker 1: them that you don't have to comp from my speed
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  Speaker 1: for comfort can actually have both.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so when you say speed for comfort, we're
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  Speaker 2: really talking about the stack height of a Hokah shoe,
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  Speaker 2: which traditionally speaking again, she's a chunky girl, and I have,
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  Speaker 2: certainly myself when I've been navigating injury specifically, have really
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  Speaker 2: leaned into Hoka sneakers because I'll know that there's going
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  Speaker 2: to be a certain level of comfort there.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So for someone that may not understand why that is,
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  Speaker 2: can you shed some light on that, on why that
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  Speaker 2: larger stack height might provide a little bit more comfort?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean again, it really came from the inception
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  Speaker 1: of why Hokah was founded. From the very first day,
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  Speaker 1: our founders were really trying to solve a problem that
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  Speaker 1: maybe no one had asked, how can you run downhills faster?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 1: And maybe again a very unique problem someone to say
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  Speaker 1: I never would have thought of that, but just in
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  Speaker 1: that inspiration this idea of how can you make running
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  Speaker 1: feel the same way maybe skiing does or that mountain
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  Speaker 1: biking does, right of that smooth motion, that fast flight
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  Speaker 1: and really almost enjoying the downhill just as much of
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  Speaker 1: the rest of the trail. That aspect of it is
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  Speaker 1: what really unlocked the maximal movement. Right in trying to
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  Speaker 1: solve a very unique and distinct, almost niche problem again
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  Speaker 1: unlocked this expression, this solution from an innovation standpoint that
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  Speaker 1: created a whole other movement and running, and if you
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  Speaker 1: look at kind of what's happened around the industry today,
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  Speaker 1: it's been pretty well embraced. Right We were very much
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  Speaker 1: almost counterculture when the brand was started fifteen years ago,
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  Speaker 1: being very unconventional, when everything was very minimal to this
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  Speaker 1: maximal movement, and we still embrace that thinking it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: mean that everything still has to be max but ultimately
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  Speaker 1: that level of comfort of cushion and really sort of
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  Speaker 1: feeling like you can sail through anything, whether there's on
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  Speaker 1: trail or track or road, still an inspiration that we
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  Speaker 1: carry as a brand and certainly when it comes to
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  Speaker 1: our product creation.
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  Speaker 2: Right in that this max movement is everywhere right now,
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  Speaker 2: Brands that never use the word max. Suddenly have a
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  Speaker 2: shoe that's called X MAX. Right, there's a name and
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  Speaker 2: there's a max after it, and it's attracting a very
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  Speaker 2: specific kind of customer because again we're associating that word
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  Speaker 2: max with max cushion, which means maybe max comfortability for
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  Speaker 2: each and every type of runner. Now, you guys hit
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  Speaker 2: a really big milestone last year, which was that two
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  Speaker 2: billion dollar revenue place from a marketing pov, what would
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  Speaker 2: you say, strategy wise helped you get there?
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  Speaker 1: That inspiration in terms of what the product can deliver
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  Speaker 1: actually created an appetite and solutions for so many more people.
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  Speaker 1: And I think what we always come back to is ultimately,
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  Speaker 1: you know, we were able to maintain a level of
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  Speaker 1: credibility of who Hoka is, why we exist, and continue
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  Speaker 1: to scale that you know, from our early adopter phase
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  Speaker 1: and where the brand started very much was, which was
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  Speaker 1: very niche and ultra running to what that unlocked at
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  Speaker 1: that two billion dollar mark. I think that's probably the
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  Speaker 1: thing that we're most proud of in terms of a
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  Speaker 1: marketing standpoint, and it's it's sort of the work that's
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  Speaker 1: never done. You know, when you think about how do
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  Speaker 1: you scale a brand, but also remain authentic to who
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  Speaker 1: you are. And I think we did that on our
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  Speaker 1: path to two billion, and we'll maintain that and so
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  Speaker 1: consider that as we think about that next milestone.
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  Speaker 2: And you've been at Hoka and the Decker's brand for
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  Speaker 2: quite some time now, so talk to me a little
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  Speaker 2: bit about how your past experience as a marketer and
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  Speaker 2: then in a myriad of different roles have helped you
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  Speaker 2: level up to get to this place where you're pushing
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  Speaker 2: the envelope forward for this brand in particular.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I when I reflect on my career, I
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  Speaker 1: feel very privileged. I've had the opportunity to work with
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  Speaker 1: some absolutely incredible brands and always been in a learning phase,
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  Speaker 1: you know, whether that was very early in my career
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  Speaker 1: starting at Red Bull to you know, working at Audi
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  Speaker 1: dot Us to you know, coming to Deckers almost fifteen
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  Speaker 1: years ago. Has just been an incredible ride, you know.
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  Speaker 1: And within each of those, I've been fortunate enough to
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  Speaker 1: be mentored by and work with some great teams where
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: you're just learning along the way again, and sometimes it's
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: starting at the ground of like what's the best way
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: to think about experience or field marketing, right what's also
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: connect to our retailers, right, who are so important to us,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: especially run specialty, and then getting to know the consumers.
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  Speaker 1: So each of those sort of experiences I think have
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: put me on an incredible path and where I am
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: today and the people all along the way. But I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: think it's really I've learned so much about just brand building,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: you know, more than anything. There's great products, there's great
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: experiences that we want to create with our consumers. But ultimately,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you know, I really am passionate about creating great brands,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: right that have a legacy that lives well beyond me.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I think that's the thing that I always
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: strive for, right, I want to leave someplace better and
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: ultimately help develop a team that you know, can carry
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: that on and put their own mark on it as
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: they move forward.
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  Speaker 2: And you said, fifteen years, that's a long time, and
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: of course working on a few different brands before we
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: talk about why fifteen plus years in one portfolio? Tell
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: us straight up, is it Teva or is it Tiva?
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: Good question? It is Teva? Oh my, it is Teva. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: But again I also like to say sometimes that when
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I think about some of the brands I work for
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  Speaker 1: people may call them many different names and none of
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: them are wrong. It might be Audi Das, it might
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: be Adidas, right, it might be Tiva, it might be Teva.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we'll take it. That means the consumer has
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: embraced it and is carrying on their own.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: It's it's something that's hotly debated. It's been debated many
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: a time. In my household. My father is a proud
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: owner of some Teva's. He at one point had bought
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: a you know, non name brand and I came over
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: and I said, you can't wear those, Dad, you can't
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: wear those and so.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: So not getuntil you try it.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Well, no, I was knocking the non Tevas. Oh oh,
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  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, the foe Tevas. And then I had tweeted
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: to ask the tweeters what their thought was on how
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: it was pronounced, and there was mass differentiating opinions, and
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: then someone from the PR team chimed in and then
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I believe they sent my dad some Tevas.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: There you go, Yeah, there you go, the original influencer.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if that a debate will ever end.
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  Speaker 1: It's okay, you know.
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  Speaker 3: We like it.
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  Speaker 2: So again, fifteen years under one portfolio, what is it
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: that you think keeps you at Deckers.
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  Speaker 1: Great brands and great people yea, and ultimately both within
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  Speaker 1: our brands and within the company, really saying true to
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: our values, especially in today's climate and everything that goes on.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's really important. Feeling like you're supported there.
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  Speaker 1: But again, great brands within the portfolio and ultimately just
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: awesome people have kept me there for so long.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: You know, it's so interesting because someone can hear you
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: say like, great brands, great values, and they're like, okay,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: but what's that really mean?
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: So when we talk about the values behind a brand
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: like Hoka, how do Hokah's values align with your own?
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: You know, when it comes down to Hokah's values, a
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: few of them are, you know, staying focused on being
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: ever curious. You know, that's how you get to true innovation,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: whether that's in a product, whether that's an experience, whether
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: that's in a community building effort. Just always staying curious,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, being a lifelong learner and always asking questions,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you know why, seeking understanding. But ultimately those are always
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: the things that are going to unlock progress. So that's
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: an important one. Inclusivity is really important, you know, and
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I mentioned that a little bit earlier in terms of
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: what that unlocked in terms of more people being able
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to move with Hoka and the solutions and innovations we have.
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  Speaker 1: But I think we truly live that and our values,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: you know, not just in performative inclusion, maybe in our
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: marketing and those types of things, or just something we
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: talk about, but truly what we live. How we think
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: about the shape of our teams, who's sitting at the table,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: who's not sitting at the table, who we need to
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: make sure is there in terms of input and feedback
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: and really hearing those voices. And then we talk a
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: lot about you know, just coming as you are if
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: you will, And I've definitely felt that in terms of,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you know, people can show up as they are and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: again bring those strengths, those those experiences and what they
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: have truly to their work.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I love the word and the value of curiosity. I
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: think that is something that enables people to really move
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: forward in their career ever learning right, This opportunity to
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: know that at any given moment, regardless of someone's position
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: within a company, the chance to learn from them. How
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: do you think that curiosity has shaped you? As you
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: sit here today in this marketing position.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I think I think in two ways, I've always
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: strived to be a lifelong learner, you know, sort of
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: never settle a little bit, like you know, even in
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: my role today, like I don't know everything, right, I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: want to always be curious about what else I can learn,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: you know, what I can learn from others as well
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: as you know, staying curious as to what's happening in
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: the world, you know, whether that's through travel, what's happening
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: in culture, and really also thinking about that feedback loop
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: from especially from a marketing standpoint, of the community. Right,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: so much of what's happening within rown culture is about
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the community, and we want to be a brand that's
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: not trying to take that over, but how can we
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: really help to foster and grow it? So much of
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: that ideation co creation, if you will, is definitely what
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: inspires me.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: For you.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: As you've navigated a myriad of different positions, what would
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: you say was the point in your career trajectory that
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: you were the most curious.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I could say one singular moment.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I think again, it's more about seeing the opportunity in
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: every position, right, and whether that's in the job scope,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: whether that's being with a smaller brand or bigger brand. Right,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: there's value in all of it, or maybe again other
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: aspirations that something may not have in the shape of
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: that roller position, but really maximizing everything that there's to
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: offer there, whether that's in the opportunity that sits within
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that role, learning how to do things differently, the people
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: that surround you. There, there's always something to learn from,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: whether that's someone that's more junior or younger than you
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: to someone that's more senior and older than you.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: There's so much to always take in.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So I think I've always strived to just see the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: opportunity in every position, and by doing that, you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: you stay optimistic, you stay curious. It naturally sort of
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: starts to lead towards where you can see the next opportunity, right,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: whether that's in a promotion or in a different industry
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: or a lateral move or something like that. Just always
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: sort of looking for like what's next and what's new.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: But taking that learning and also maly that network and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: those relationships that you have with you you know, that's
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the best part of it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: It's so important and so much of it is relationship building, right,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: And as you navigate your way along this path from
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: brand to brand, you're learning new things and new skills,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: and along the way you also pick up what we
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: might refer to as different pieces of marketing gospel.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, now as you are.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Is there anything that you used to feel super passionately
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: about that you say, maybe that's not the case anymore.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I think probably what I've kind of put to bed
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: is a little bit of kind of the control that
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: marketing used to be, or maybe used to feel like
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: that we have to control the narrative. We got to
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: control the message almost sort of like old school advertising days,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: which was sort of originally what got me into marketing in.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: The first place.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, I want to be an AD I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: want to work for an ad agency. I want to
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: work it. I loved ads, I loved you know, commercials,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: the films, everything. But I think where that shift changes
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: happened is it's not about controlling the narrative. Especially in
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: our world today, right, everything is so interconnected, and again,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: so much of that inspiration really and evolution is coming
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: from culture in the community. It's much more about embracing
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: that idea of co creation and again whether that unlocks
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: what we might build around the ecosystem of the brand
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: and help people see themselves reflected in or want to
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: live within the brand is really the power of it.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: It's a shift from talking at people, which I think
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: was maybe where we were, you know, twenty years ago,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to being really in a space and again we're doing
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: world building and hopefully where people can see themselves thriving
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: in it.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: What I'm hearing you say is that we need to
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: be okay with letting go of the things that we
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: cannot control absolutely, and that can be very challenging for you yourself.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: What's your relationship with embracing that, with embracing I can
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: let go of the things that I cannot control.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: You know, I think I would say it wasn't always
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: my strength. You know, I'm a little bit type A
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: when it comes to maybe my origins and like that
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: maybe used to be a strength. But the reality is,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: you know, nothing is really in your control, both when
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: you think about the work we do and how we
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: need to be listening more than speaking at times. Right again,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: there's so much inspiration coming from particularly run culture today
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that it's like, you know, I just I do see
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: it as inspiration that will help us unlock how we
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: can continue to serve our consumer and our community better,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: whether it's through marketing, whether it's through innovation, whether it's
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: through the products that we build and serve to take
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: run culture and broader culture forward. But I'd also say,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: just in reflection of personally, right, if if you're trying
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: to control everything, you will fail at everything or always
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: feel a bit of a failure versus you know, sometimes
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: like you just got to find your harmony, you know,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it's embracing, hey, here's where I had to compromise,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: here's where things are imperfect, But also that we've always
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: got to be kind of turning the page to what's next,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: you know, because it can't always be that like self critique,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: but more so like this is just how it is,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: you know. And sometimes particularly from what marketing lends too,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: sometimes that criticism or what we might hear of what
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: we're not doing well from the consumer is also what's
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: going to inspire us for what's next so we can
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: continue to solve problems for them.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: That's super interesting.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So when you say that out loud, the criticism sometimes
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: inspires us to think about what's next, can you give
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: a practical example of that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: Let's see.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think we think about it all the
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: time in terms of you know, storytelling and certainly through
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: our product pipeline, you know, of the work is never
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: done right Again, we'll launch the shoe, and it's always
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: going to be about fine tuning, you know, how can
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: we make it better, how can we make it faster,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: how can we make it lighter? And also how we
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: can continue to meet those aspirations of our athletes and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the consumer. And again where their goals or their pr
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: goals or whatever they're striving for in terms of their
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: impact and what they want to achieve is always changing.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: You know, consumer is always evolving, and that's why we
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: really obsess that consumer. Come back to it again and
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: again to make sure that we're continuing to meet that
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: need and continuing to surprise them, but with new solutions
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: that will help help them reach their goals.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Now, I want to come back and double click on
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: kind of how a shoe gets made in just a
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: little bit, but before we get there. I love this
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: idea of always evolving and always kind of learning and
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: growing something that you've done a fair amount in your career,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: you said you started out wanting to be this ad
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: lady in your evolution best plan. Talk to me about
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: how you've gotten to this place now, talk to me
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a little bit about the moves that you made professionally
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: that inspired you to get into a marketing role like this.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think I guess starting early on, the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: shift change happened. I started in very early days working
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: for Red Bull very much in the field on the
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: grounds right, and loved it. And that was really my
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: first experience in terms of seeing what what a real,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: real brand building could feel like, largely because of the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: experiential aspect of the Red Bull brand.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: It just it was.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: It was almost like a whole other like university college
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: degree in terms of best in class and again thinking
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: about how experiences with a brand are really invoke like
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: a memory, if you will, and that's what unlocks the
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: emotional ties to a brand. And that was a little
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: bit of the shift change for me in terms of
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: thinking about Okay, like I used to think marketing was
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: one thing, but if this is the aspect, like if
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I can be part of like this emotional again kind
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of world building and thinking about how you're leaving people
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: really in almost like a higher emotional space, not about
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: consumption maybe of even a product, but really sort of
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: where people feel connected to something bigger than themselves, like
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I want to be a part of it, you know.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: It was also the aspect in terms of thinking about
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I very much set an intention and early on in
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: my career, I was like, I don't want just a job.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I don't want to paycheck. I want to do something
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I'm passionate about. Right. We spent the majority of our
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: lives working, you know, in many ways, and I wanted
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: it to be something in a space that I truly
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: was passionate about. And sports and that connection particularly to
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the outdoors and sports have always been kind of at
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the heart of who I am. And seeing that I
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: would I would have an inroads to do that potentially
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: with some great global brands, I was like, I'm in, like,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: let's keep doing this. And again, sort of through my
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: career I've had I'm just super grateful I've had the
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: opportunity to sort of have a journey with some great
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: brands again taking taking learnings and pieces of all of
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: those to where I am today at Hoka.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Was that desire to really lean into your passions when
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: we talk about sport. Was that something that was modeled
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: for you? Did you see someone else executing in that way?
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: So you thought, I too want to do this. I
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: don't want to just have a job.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: The person that would most come to mind for me
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: is probably my mom. She's an educator and sort of
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: a forever educator. You know, she had gone from teaching,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: gone back to get multiple masters, you know, retired as
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: an elementary school principal. But she was so passionate about education,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: about learning about kids, about especially you know, for kids
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: maybe that that couldn't be seen or weren't served in
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: terms of special needs.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: That was always her focus.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: And you know, she she was so committed to it
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: in every way, and but I could see, you know,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: she works really hard, but she also it was something
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: that she loved and truly, you know, she made an
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: impact you know, on individual lives and in those broader communities.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: And so I think that that definitely was an inspiration
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: for me. I'm like, you know, again, you know, no
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: one wants to just punch a clock, right. We want
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: to hopefully find a balance where you know, we're we're
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: working to live and not living to work. And I
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: think finding a space within work that you truly feel
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: passion about and connected to, but that can also serve
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: you know, your broader personal goals. Is pretty much perfection.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Well, it's it's special, and it's certainly something that many
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: people seek but haven't necessarily found just yet or figured
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: out a way to tie the two together to monetize
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the things that really excite them. It's actually something that
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I get messages about regularly from women that listen to
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: the show, asking how would you advise that I start
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: a career maybe in sport or health or fitness or
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: media at this point, and if we talk about aging
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and getting older, so many concerned that I didn't do
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: it soon enough right for someone maybe that comes to
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: you and asks a question in that vein, what would
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: you tell them?
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, don't be afraid to jump, you know,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: And some of it can be progressive. Some of it
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: can start in terms of, you know, not being afraid
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: to try new things or again looking at things that
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: might feel maybe lateral moves. Like I think when we
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: think about develop sometimes always people think it's like it's
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: a from here to hear path and there's so many
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: different ways to experience Again, to stay curious, to sort
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: of have that aspect of learning and trying new things.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: And obviously everybody's circumstances is different, but I think, you know,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: being being not afraid to say, hey, this is something
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I want to strive for. I think, particularly when it
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: comes to whether it's directly within marketing, sports marketing, product
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: marketing and those all those types of things. So much
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: of it is about is about people and the relationships
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and the network. So I think you probably in a
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: more tactical sense that would be the first place I
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: would start is like, you know, getting like showing up,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: you know, getting involved in the community, making introductions right
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: and those types of things, reaching out, you know, not
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: being afraid to also be a little bit vulnerable in
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that because I think generally if people are passion like,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: sensing that level of passion from someone in that space,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: you know there's a chance you're going to get a
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: shot and certainly be introduced to the right people that
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: can help you get there.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I always think that there are two things that are important.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: The first thing is one is opening up your circle
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: of luck. So what I mean by that is that
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: at any moment, you could be putting yourself in a
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: position that makes you luckier, and you make that conscious
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: choice by putting yourself out there. Right, So, if things
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: aren't going your way, you might want to stay home.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: But what happens if today is the day that stepping
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: out gets you to meet that person that helps unlock
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: the next door. Right, So there's that, And then the
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: second thing is being where your feet are when you
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: get out the door.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: So it's not just Okay, I'm going to open the
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: door and step into the room. It's then you have
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: to work the room. Then you have to be where
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: you are so that you can meet the people that
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: are standing all around you.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You just you got to put yourself out there,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: you know. And it's hard, you know, and we all
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: have different Some of us are extroverts, some of us
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: are introverts, you know, in all those ways. But I
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: always come back to, you know, like, if you love something,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: if you if you position yourself in the right way,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: both in in terms of being in the right place
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: at the right time, with the right skill sets, you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I think the world tends to work in your favor.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: And again, finding the right people that can connect you
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: in the right ways, I know has always been been
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: in inroads for me and sometimes you know, I've had
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: to step into things that maybe felt like, oh, am
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I you know, do I have an imposter syndrome? Am
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I ready for this? And it's like, you know what,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: like I'll figure it out, right, you know, ultimately coming
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: back to the only person that's truly going to bet
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: on you is you, and having the inner confidence to know,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: like you know again that luck and the right moment
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: and right time is going to happen, and almost kind
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of manifesting into that, not just in sort of meditation
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: and mindset, but again just putting yourself out there, right,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: reaching out, showing up in the right spaces and places right,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, even within the wrong community, right, even starting
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: within run specialty or run retail. You know, those are
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: all inroads to the industry.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: All inroads to the industry. When we talk about imposter
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: syndrome and maybe feeling as though you were pushing for
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: something that could be quote unquote bigger than you, what
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: advice do you have to offer for someone who may
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: be resonating in that feeling.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I have always approached it and hey, I might
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: screw this up, but that's okay, you.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Know, what I mean.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I'll show up and not know anyone right,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: or maybe I won't say the right things. But you've
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: also just like you won't know until you try, and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: sometimes you won't know until you fail and you try, right,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and then you go back and try again. You know,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, no one else is
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: going to do it for you, and so finding those
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: ways to just have a little bit of perseverance or
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: as you're moving through it something isn't working out. Always
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: just having that feedback loop. I try and keep that
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: even today, right, like I'll have a feedback loop coming
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: out of this conversation. I do feedback loops when I
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: give a big presentation, right, I'm like, Okay, that was good.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: How could have been better?
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And it's not in a critique way. It's more like,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: let's lock this in for what I want to do
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: next or maybe hey, I tried this and maybe I
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: don't like doing a podcast, you know what, that's okay too,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: to sort of but keeping that feedback loop in terms
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: of either what you need to do next time, or
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: maybe hey, maybe I want to try a different path
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: and take a different inroad there.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Let's break that down even a little bit more, because
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I think this is a really helpful tool, right, this
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: feedback loop, And it's something that I do as well,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: specifically for myself, mostly after I host a live event.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: So whether it's a live podcast or a fireside or
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: moderate a panel, I'll leave the event, and my post
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: event routine is that if I'm in New York, I
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: go to the exact same restaurant, I sit in the
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: exact same seat, the exact same corner.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Love it, I love it, and I get the.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Exact same glass of wine, and I do like a
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: post boredom, and I ask the exact same questions. So
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know if your feedback loop is this specific,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: but when you do something like that, what could it
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: entail for you?
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: It's not that specific, but I like yours and I
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: want your restaurant recommendation, the line I want, I want
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: all the deep gotcha. No, I think it's just more
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: in a like a methodology, if you will, again, I
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: really try and put it into practice, not just for
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: the big moments, but even the small ones. You know,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: even if it's in like a tough conversation, perhaps at work, right,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: whether that's in you've got to deliver hard feedback or
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: you've got to have a coaching cession with someone, right,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: you know, coming out of that to go, Okay, did
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: that land I wanted it to? How did that person feel?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Is there something I could have done different better?
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: It's almost just sort of like just a little check in,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: sort of like putting aside what you can learn in
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the micro moments if you will. And again it's not
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: something that it's like one hundred times a day, but
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: just like where those critical things are and sort of
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: sitting with you know sometimes if I'm like, I feel
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: good about that, what could I have done better? Right?
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: You know? How could we have set that up differently?
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: It's just trying to make those like mental notes and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: almost that it's almost a behavior shift, right, So it's
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: hopefully it does become a little more muscle memory, right,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: whether it's about a one on one engagement, if it's
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: in a speaking engagement, like you said, whatever that might
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: be where each time you're yeah, your muscle memory is
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: there of what you maybe wanted to do differently last time,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: and then you'll learn something new in the.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Next It's a wrap, right, and you got to do
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: more reps to get stronger.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I mean always right, and there's there's almost like never
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: a ceiling to be honest. I mean that's where it's
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: like people will say, oh, you know, you might have
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a strength and X, and it's like, yeah, but it
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: could always be better. And I'm still working on these
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: five other things that I want to be strengths that
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: we aren't there.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: What are you working on right now?
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: What am I working on right now? Lifting up to
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: like what's next? You know a lot of times in
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the day today, especially a brand like Hokah, which is
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: scaling so quickly, there's no shortage of things to do,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: and there's always so many things that are like right
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: in front of us, you know, to solve and fix
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: and expand on. But continually also you know, having that
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: trust in my team to do the good things and
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: make things happen, but lift up right, to always be
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: looking further ahead so we can really create the roadmap
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: to where we want to go and unlock all that
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: potential and clear guidance and direction for my team. On
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: the personal side, I think it is always coming back
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: to again finding balance, which I actually think is unrealistic.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Fair women talk about it a lot, but I'm like
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: there's no I at least in my experience. I'm like,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: there's never really balance.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Also, like no one's asking men how they find balance.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Everyone's like, sweetie, are you okay. It's like, just because
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: I'm emotional, you think I need to find more balance
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: in my life.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: I yeah, no, but for me it always does.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I sort of switched my language a few years ago
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: into finding harmony. Oh I like that, And it's really
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: is about that balance of work and life. You know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I'm a worky mom. I've got two young girls. You know,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I've got family and everything else. You know, there's always
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: ten thousand things happening, but sort of always reassessing. Like
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: the harmony, which balance feels like, okay, you have to
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: find the balance or you failed.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Harmony is like this is my harmony this week, right,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Or maybe this is my harmony today, or maybe this
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: is my harmony this morning, because there's so many different
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: things going on, but just that sort of acknowledgment that
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to be perfect. I'm not going to
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: be able to be excellent at all the things or
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: maybe all the roles that I have to play in
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: my world. But that's okay, and sometimes I have to
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: prioritize certain things and that means we compromise in others
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: and that's okay. It's a little bit of the harmony
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: and embracing the imperfection at times, but not dwelling on it,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: you know, and just knowing it is shifting sometimes again
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: on a sometimes on an hourly basis, de having on
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: what's going on.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Harmony is having three buckets. Each of the buckets has
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: a hole in it, and you're okay with let some
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: of the water.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: So well, No, that's a little leaky, That's okay.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: It's okay.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: It's never going to go empty because we're working on
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: that harmony. Yeah, they all have something at any given moment.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: That's a great analogy for got you.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I'm here for you now. You mentioned having two young girls. Also,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: you are leading teams at work. When we think about
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: being someone that's a leader, what characteristics do you have
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: that make you good at that?
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: For me, I think again, being curious, striving to listen
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: and learn and hear what's going on. Also just trying
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: to lead with empathy, you know. I think again, some
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: great mentors I've had the privilege to work with over
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the past few years have really embedded that in me
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: and kind of shown the way. And that's one that
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: again I think really fosters not only great work in
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: the output, but great team and culture internally, which is
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: probably even more important than what the output is.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Listening is really important, and I think that many individuals
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: that either are in positions of leadership or strive to
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: be in positions of leadership take their time to get
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: to that lesson. Often in my experience, I have found
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: that that's a lesson you learn through application. That's a
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: lesson you learn when maybe you did some sort of
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: a post mortem and you realize I could have listened better,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: or I could have done this differently.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: Absolutely well.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I would say that's a direct example when
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I think about what can I you know that sort
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: of like mental note, I wasn't always a great listener,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: to be honest, and am I excellent at it today?
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I'm always striving to be better and always keeping that
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: in check. But I'd say that's one of the biggest
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: filters I have is you know, it's not always the
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: loudest voice in the room, it's not always the most
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: senior voice in the room. That is sharing maybe the
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: right past, the right idea is, or the right topics
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: right that we really need to be talking about and
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: welcoming in those perspectives. And you know, whether that's in
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: both the active listening but also seeing maybe who in
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: the room needs to maybe be pulled in to say,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: like I want to hear what you have to say. Yeah,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: you know, and I really do try and strive to
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: model that in my.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: Day to day.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: But like I said, the learning is never done.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, listening something that you mentioned also has been a
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: big part of working with run crews and learning more
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: about run culture for Hoka. Talk to me a little
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: bit about what you've learned as a brand through the
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: listening that you've done over the last few years.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, certainly, staying very closely connected to the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: consumer is central to why Hokah exists. You know, we
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: were founded you know, working directly with athletes, right and
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: delving into those insights is what unlocked you know, ultimately
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Hoca solutions and our product, and that is something again
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: that is really core to our entire planning and process.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: We do truly center the consumer. Everything from marketing, what's
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: happening in terms of community and culture, and most importantly
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: through our product creation process. You know, continually coming back
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: to the tweaking not only with our elite athletes and
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: listening and learning from them as an extension of that partnership,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: but also you know, with those day to day runners
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: and everyone in between, is making sure that we're always
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: staying informed because ultimately that ultimate choice sits with them.
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: We can talk about ourselves all day long, we can
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: sort of think about, hey, this is what we think
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: is next in class innovation, right, but if it's not
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: directly drawn to that consumer insight and how we're solving
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: problems for them, you know, it's not going to pass
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the bar. So yeah, it's ultimately that the power does
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: it with the consumer. But I think that's what's exciting again,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: that's what we're always continually learning about, not just the
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: act of running and movement, but also when we think
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: about the differences right as a global brand, how those
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: communities and cultures are so nuanced, you know, around the
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: world is all super exciting and super interesting, and certainly
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: I think what always inspires our teams.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to push you for a second, if it's
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: nuanced and it's different around the world. Can you give
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: me an example of a difference.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Run crews, for example, is a big aspect of that.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: But when you go to what run crews look like,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: how and what they're driving within each of the different
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: regions is different in different ways. Also, the motivations of
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: those runners within different regions are different. For example, when
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: you go to Japan, there's a different level of discipline
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: around running in terms of that being a priority for
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of those runners. Again, when it comes to
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: North America, for example, it's more closely connected to sort
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: of broader culture in different ways.
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: Neither right or wrong.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: It's more so in terms of how do we think
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: about shaping the experiences that we create, the stories we tell,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: how we bring human more human stories to life that
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: feel very relevant and inspired in those local communities.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: When you think about the various marketing channels that are
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: available to you, if you had to pick just one,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: you only get one marketing channel to work on for
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: the rest of your career.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Where are you going, I'd have to say emphatically with
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: experience and again kind of thinking about what unlocked sort
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: of the pathway to me career wise, but also where
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: that great greatest brand building comes from is an experience,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: because again it unlocks and invokes a memory, right, whether
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: that's in what you did, what you saw there, the
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: people you met, the way you felt accur an experience,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: whether that's again a running event. It could be a panel,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: you know with someone like you like learning and connecting.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of getting deeper into that community building.
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: It could be a race.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Whatever it is you know that'll that memory evokes emotion
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: and ultimately that's what always is going to bring people
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: back to a brand, taking it out of just consumption, right,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: selling more things, buying more things, to more of a
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: world where people see themselves in it and want to
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: be a part of it.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: When we think about the experience that you've had in
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: this role at Hoka, talk to me about perhaps what
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: your highlights have been.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my, I highlights, there's so many. You know, I'll
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: be five years with the brand coming up in May
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: and it's actually just flown by, which is kind of surprising.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: But I think certainly the memories that I have just
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: with our teammates in terms of exploration, being able to
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: travel to different markets again, get to see what's happening
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: with our consumer and run culture is always super exciting
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: and just being able to spend time with them our
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: experiences you know that we shared at UTMB, which is
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: really one of the course bases and races where Hoka
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: was born. You know, it was the first testing ground
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: for some of our first samples and really kind of
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: surged as an inspiration of how far could these shoes
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: actually go. It's such a special place Shamany and just
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: an incredible experience in terms of being able to be
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: a part of the trail running community, which is very
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: special within the broader run community. Also, I would say
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: again for me, a lot of it comes down to
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: the people. You know, we have a very unique opportunity
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: at Hokah where our founders are still involved with the brand,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: and I have to say, this is the first brand
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I've worked that where I've been able to have that
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: relationship and experience and it's super special, you know, just
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: to be with the people that started it all, for
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: them to see the fruition you know, of where the
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: brand is today, but also always having an insight to
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: come back to you know, every conversation I have with them,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like I just learned something new, and you know,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I've known these guys forever, so I think all those
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: things are really special parts of Hoka. I could go
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: on and on. I mean, between marathon moments everything else.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: You know, anytime you're out there, whether you're actually you know,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: signing up and running the race to being there to
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: cheer on, I mean, it just fills my cup, you know.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Every time we were out at the Chicago Marathon this
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: last fall, and I call myself more of a I
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: used to run a lot of marathons. I'm a little
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: bit of a lapsed marathon runner at this point with
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: everything else going on, but you know, being able to
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: be there cheering on the fans, I was like, this energy,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: the spirit is exactly what I felt when I trained
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: for and ran my first marathon, you know, twenty years ago,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: to what I feel today.
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: It's like, this is what I love.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I love seeing people achieve things they maybe didn't think
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: we're possible, overcoming challenges and just the spirit of community
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: coming together to cheer people on to go run that
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: twenty six point two is like it gets you fired up.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: So I hope that we can continue to create those
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: worlds where people feel invited into that again, whether they're participating,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: whether they're winning those races or they're just there as
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: part of the community and cheering people on.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: A lapsed marathon runner. What does activity look like for
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: you these days?
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Well, today, I'm a little bit of a jack of
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: all trades between the combination of you know, my passions,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: which still certainly involve running, just not at that distance,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: and getting outside. You know, I am very tied to
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: you know, anything where I can get back into outdoor
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: spaces is something that always fills my cup, helps me
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: kind of reset a little bit. But then it's also
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: tied to, you know, my family and where my kids
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: are at. So I also am a part time soccer referee.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I we do some mountain biking, you know, flag football,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: it's all the things. So I play both the role
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: of spectator, participant and fan.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: At this point, young girls playing flag football, flag football, where.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: It's all I know.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I love hearing that actually because it is really rising
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: within young girls right now.
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: So cool to see, yeah.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: So cool to see.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: How would you say that being a mom makes you
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: better at your job?
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: It just puts things in perspective, you know, And I
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: think whether you're a mother or just a woman that
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: has you know, a lot of different facets to your world, right,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: You're serving lots of different people around you, whether that's
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: your friends, your family, larger parts of your community. Is
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: just having more perspective, right, you know, when it comes
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: down to it, like those are the things that really matter.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Of course, I love my job, I love the work
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: I do, I love the people I work with, and
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: I feel very privileged to be in the position that
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I am. But at the end of the day, you know,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: it does come down to what really matters, and that
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: is really about family and ultimately for me, it also
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: helps keep me in check, you know. Again that feedback
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: loop a little bit of hey, am I modeling how
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I treat myself, how I treat others? The balance with
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: my work for them, so they're seeing someone that is
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: truly her best self, you know, and some days it's not,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: you know, and I have to I have to check
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: myself there and sort of again find that harmonization and
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: go like, Okay, how do I reprioritize here so I
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: can always either way be that best model for them.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess we could inverse that, right, because
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: if that's how it makes you a better marketer, then
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: I would assume there are components to being a good
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: marketer that also make you a better mom.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely right, you know. Thinking about again, I think
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: that balance of both the personal and the professional, which
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I think used to feel early on in my career,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: felt like they had to be very separate things, you know,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: almost that like severance, I did a little bit of
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: like this is the real me, but like I have
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: to show up this way at work. Again, I think
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: having an opportunity to work with a brand and at
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: a company that embraces you for who you are and
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: knowing that, hey, you know, sometimes other things are happening,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: you know, their life challenges other ways that you have
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: to have balance, you know. I try and bring that
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: to my work and also again to how I bring
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: it home and model for my girls, like, hey, you know,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I'm a boss lady. I got to like, I gotta
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: do the things. Sometimes I have to compromise, right, sometimes
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: I have to travel, I have to do those things.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: But modeling into hopefully the aspirations that they have to
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: chase their passions to seek out what they love, you know,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day and get after it
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: and they can do it you know, I want them
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: to ultimately have the confidence to achieve whatever they want to.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: Erica, what were you doing this morning?
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I was at a fourth grade violin recital, And what
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: are you doing tonight? I started my day, I guess
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: at a at a lovely violin recital, and tonight I'm
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: super excited to come together with our team to celebrate
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: the launch of the seato X one three point zero. So,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: you know, again the harmony in the day, you just
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: find different things in different pathways. Neither is better than
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: the other, They're just, you know, part part of the day.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: I'm actually obsessed with the fact that there is both
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: a violin recital and flag football in the week, Like
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: this is an aspirational way to raise young women.
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: It's a juggle. It's a juggle, but we go for it.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's also it's also so special because you
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: talked about your relationship with sport today and how family
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: and your passion for being outside have really intersected, And
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: what a beautiful way to model that behavior for your family,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: that it's something that you want to indulge in, just
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: like you want to be the boss lady, just like
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: you want to be the person that's passionate about the
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: work that you do and giving it your all. You
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: also want to show them that there are other pillars
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: to who you are that you sh show up for
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: and that you prioritize.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: No, well, thank you for that, I mean, I think again,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've been very blessed to not only
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: work with some great leaders and particularly women that have
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: modeled that, but also just within my network of friends
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: and community, just some amazing women you know that I'm
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: always learning from and always cheering on.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: When you think about the amazing women that you've had
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: an opportunity to work with and be mentored by. If
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: I were to ask you about perhaps a piece of
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: advice that comes to mind, something that's really resonated.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: With you over the years, what do you got for me?
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: The first thing I thought of it was just like
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: a quote, And maybe it's because I've used it recently.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I think I even said it last week at work.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: The paranoids survive.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, isn't that the truth? Though? It's like
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: you're looking around and you're like, is everything okay? It's not.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: You're like, don't assume. Let's make sure. Let's look under
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: the covers. Just to make sure again you're always looking
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: around corners right to where there's opportunity but also where
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: there's risk. So that's that's the first thing that jumped
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: into my head. It's not the most maybe inspirational, but
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's very relatable in terms of it does
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: come up in the day to day where I'm like, hm,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: is there something in the back of my mind? And
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: part of that to me is also tied to like,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: trust your intuition.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: I was just gonna say that, And there's.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Times both kind of personally and professionally where I haven't
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: you know, I've maybe had that and I haven't trusted it,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: you know, and then it comes back back to bite
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: you a little bit. So I think that's where that's
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: the positive message in that is the paranoids survived. But
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: it's like, because trust your intuition, like you you know,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: maybe even more than what you think you know, and
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: follow that lead and trust that.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Right now, someone maybe pulls up your LinkedIn pagencies that
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: you have this position at Hoka. But if you were
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: to look in the mirror, what would you see looking
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: back at you.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: When I look in the mirror, I see again an
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: ever long student, always striving to be constantly evolving and learning.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I see a connector a builder. I see a leader
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: that's always striving to do more and serve my team
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: and ultimately scale and build an everlasting brand as well as,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: of course the different roles that I play, you know,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: a mother, a wife, a friend, a sister, and try
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: and carry all of those, you know, in my most
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: authentic way.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: What do you think has been one of the biggest
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: challenges that you faced in this role at Hokah.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I think again it's to be that protector of the brand,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: but also recognizing we always have to be evolving, especially
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: with the incredible success that Hocus had. The scaling that
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: we've had, which has really been, as we fondly call
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: it internally, a little bit of a big blue rocket ship,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: right is finding the pathways where we can model the team,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: model the work, but scale it in a way that
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: we carry everybody with us. I would say that's probably
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the biggest challenge, but it's also been one of the
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: biggest growing opportunities for me that I've really appreciated. You know,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: I do think the Hookah brand is so unique and
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: being able to be a part of a brand that's
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: this early in its life. You know, we're still a
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: bit of a teenager in terms of only fifteen years
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: in and having that opportunity to be part of that
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: incredible scaling is a once in a lifetime. You know,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: you're not going to have it and a lot of
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: other brands, and it presents some hardships, right, some hard
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: things to overcome, but it's also like, let's go for it,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: you know, it's super exciting.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: Fifteen years in that's crazy.
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we're still still just babies.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: You know. The world is hasn't seen everything from Hokah yet.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Not just yet, well yet, Eric, I'm so happy that
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: we were able to do this today. Before I let
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: you go today, if you had to offer a piece
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: of advice to yourself at the top end of your
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: role here at Hoka now five years in in May,
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: what would you tell yourself?
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Enjoy the journey, you know again even in those hard days,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: that's what really unlocks the joy in the fun days, and.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Just be your most authentic self beautiful. Well again, thank
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: you so much for coming onto the show for those.
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Want to keep up with you, maybe keep up with Hokah.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Where do we find you give us the details.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: LinkedIn is probably the best bet for sure. You know,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: I'm on social in a little bit of ways, but
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I you know, try and limit my screen time because
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I get so much of it in the day to day.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: But you can always hit me up on LinkedIn.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: Amazing.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily Vadi and at Hurdle Podcast Another
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Hurdle Conquered.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.