Latest / The Uplift- with Luke Pollock / #31 - Josh Hanlon - Ai and Overcoming the Fear of Content
Transcript
- Josh Hanlon: No 35 degrees in London anymore. Luke Pollock: Not to give you weather chat first thing, but I did wake up at 5 a.m. to the sound of the drain, like water just gushing out the drain. And I was like, I've got a full load of washing hanging outside here. I just left it Josh Hanlon: I don't I don't stuff to talk about. Luke Pollock: is, yeah, it's still all right there and it's still raining. So job for after. But anyway, Josh, Alan, welcome back. How are you brother? Josh Hanlon: I'm good man. Are you? Luke Pollock: Well, like I've just said, sad about my washing, but otherwise well. I want to actually tell you about my friend. So one of my friends has just started. I showed you his profile. haven't knew the one that's like just started posting on social media. He's an Ironman. Josh Hanlon: This is the boy doing the arm on the FL. Luke Pollock: Yeah, did you see his post last night? Josh Hanlon: Not sure. Luke Pollock: He posted being like pretty much I'm just doing this for exposure therapy. I just want to post more get myself out there It's most scared. I've been to do anything these screenshots like the work group chat of them being like Yeah, Josh Hanlon: yeah, I did say that. I actually did say that this morning. Luke Pollock: he's texted me down. I'd be like I woke up during the middle of the night thinking what have I done? What have I done? I need to take it on but I was like the only other time I I felt like that is remember I posted that video is like I'm a field professional rugby player. Josh Hanlon: yeah, but that did well, that really... Luke Pollock: Yeah, but I woke up in the middle of the night that night and I went onto my Instagram and handed my hand over the delete button and I was like, what are doing? Just go back to sleep. But Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: yeah, you can really catastrophize. Josh Hanlon: especially in the evenings. During the Luke Pollock: Yeah, I suppose. Josh Hanlon: day, you're like, this is class now, and you like, it, and it's like, I probably should just delete Luke Pollock: after 8pm. Josh Hanlon: my whole page. Luke Pollock: Yeah, after 8 p.m. is not a good place to be, especially when like... Josh Hanlon: In fairness to your man, they'll probably getting your first couple of reels sent in the work group chat's probably like, it's not really gonna get much harder than that. Probably the most abuse you will get. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that is true. Yeah. It's kind of like front loaded. get away more at the start. And then it's like, once, once people realize that, that you're serious about it and that they can't talk you out of it, they sort of lay off you a little bit more and then they'll just do it behind your back then even better. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, which is sweet because I knew after that was... Luke Pollock: Yeah, because then you don't know. So you just have to get over that first little bit. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: But yeah, his work, the problem with him is his work is like a rugby team. It's like recruitment. So they're just like proper lousy lads. So they'll just keep abusing him. Whereas my work was kind of PC when I started at SanDude, no one would say anything really. Josh Hanlon: And yeah, you couldn't abuse each other properly. Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah. But Rugby was different, but he's quite rugby-no. So, but yeah, I hope you find picking up the old camera again. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, good. I've been posting for like three years or so now. It probably does go in cycles. know yourself, sometimes you are feeling like you just slap anything up and you really care and then other times you overthink it too much. But then you probably always come back to the same thing and realise it's not. You just press a couple of buttons on my phone and then latch this video up. I this is not the end of the world really. Luke Pollock: Yeah, but in terms of like the, you know, the recording yourself talking videos out there. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, well, I think whenever you're. It's definitely a skill that have to sort of practice and continue to learn. But whenever you're feeling. Anyway, like I can't say I've ever had the urge to speak to a camera. It's definitely something I have to like. Actually make myself do so Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: you can definitely get pushed down the priority list a good bit. But yeah, I think just trying to. As you always say, like if there's something you're definitely. quite clearly avoiding, it's probably something you should be doing. yeah, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: just trying to lean into that a wee bit more recently. Luke Pollock: Yeah. And do you think it, I don't know. I think it is like deeper than it is just pushing a few buttons on the phone. Like for that lad, like his life will change now cause he like everyone has seen him and like that is now what everyone will talk to him about is no Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: longer, hi frog, we go and help be like, I seen you were post like you post on social media and I like that's going to be a new thing. So yeah, I feel like it is deeper than just pressing a few buttons. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, well, it is, isn't it? It's like, always have their perception of you and then they see you use something you put in social media and then it's all of sudden they're like, well, that's not aligned with the law that I know. And then they're like, well, why is he doing that? Yeah. It's like, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: like everyone's obviously will use your mate as an example, like, sorry, if he's gonna listen to Luke Pollock: Nah, nah, he'll love it. Use him as an example. Josh Hanlon: this. but he's getting a good bit of our time. Luke Pollock: There he is. Josh Hanlon: But like everyone's kind of looked at him as a player before and then like he does something different. Everyone's like, well, why is he not, why is he not just Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: being a rugby player? what mean? It's just everyone shits themselves like, but that's not, it is in it. I know like I said, probably as you said, it probably is a wee bit deeper than clicking a couple of buttons, but. when you really think about it, like in the grand scheme of things, it's just a wee video Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: on a wee silly app on your phone. Luke Pollock: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it does feel like it's a bigger deal, but when you zoom out for an offense, people will forget about it straight away as well. Josh Hanlon: I think, you're sitting as well, like on your phone and you're doing it and you're sitting in your own, in your house and you're like, this is actually the end of the world. And then you like go out for a couple of hours and like don't look at your phone. You're like, like that. That actually just doesn't matter. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: you forget you've lost it up and all of sudden it's like you're in all the next one. Luke Pollock: Yeah, and then the more you do, the easier it gets, which is like sounds obvious, but it's not not even just like the easier it gets to post and forget about it. But the easier it gets to actually make posts as well, like at the start, just takes so long. So it feels like, how am I going to keep this up? Like you showed me his camera roll where he'll like have like 20 takes of a video or whatever for like a 30 second post. And to be fair, was showing him, I was like, yeah, I do the same. But as you do more and more, like when you were out on that walk and recorded yourself speaking, like you can sort of, like as you, as you give a good practice, you can put more out there more quickly Josh Hanlon: Mm. Luke Pollock: as well. So compounds. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, it probably just comes as well from just not overthinking it as much. Like whenever you start, you're like, yes, it's obviously a skill, like creating content in itself, but like you're also, you're also thinking like being too particular in the words you say and how you say it and not wanting to be perceived wrong or say the wrong thing. But then once you get more, a wee bit more comfortable, you're just like, sure, just. You're Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: not thinking about it as much and you just sort of say whatever comes to you. Well, I do anyway, Luke Pollock: What? Josh Hanlon: for sure. Luke Pollock: Yeah, do you do you still like think about what like other coaches will think of your content? Josh Hanlon: I definitely was doing that for a while. I'm definitely probably passed the part of thinking, caring what anyone, regular people think about my content. But Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: it's more people in the industry, all their coaches. I'd say I probably was passed it and then recently I'm probably starting to overthink it again. Be like, you need to... they come across like you know what you're talking about and talk about certain topics because you're a coach. And then was more for me, like I like talking about things that aren't necessarily SEC related. sometimes Luke Pollock: Yeah, Josh Hanlon: it was like. Luke Pollock: dear forbid you do that, Josh. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, why are you talking about that? And all the coaches being like, what are you on about? like, yeah, but I think it's probably just something that's always going to be there. Like, you know, this is something I thought you have and then you can kind of like get David too much. like, over, as you, as we said, like over time, it just gets easier to just try and stay in your lane and just do your own thing. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I just find that sometimes it's quite hard to like to imagine being at fully in your own lane because obviously you're going to like naturally compare yourself to other people that you watch all the time. Like if you think about before social media, when you run the business, you would just run a business and do things your way. And then maybe like once a year you would go shout, like look at another business and think, that's how they do it. Or you would have to travel to another city to be like, that's how this person's doing it. Maybe I'll take one or two things from there, but like every day we get about 20. to 50 different inputs of how very similar businesses are running. So then we're constantly like, maybe we should do this. Now, maybe we should do this. What happens if they think of me like this? And it's almost like just input overload. And I think if we actually Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: just like followed less of what other people were doing, which again, sounds quite cliche, but when I've just made that connection in my own head, it's so true. Cause with, with Fizio, feel it massively like. I made the last podcast on here was about, I answered the question like about physios and professional or elite environments. And I was giving my like actual thoughts on it, which were completely reasonable. I listened back, but still I was like, maybe I was too negative. Like when I went to bed, I said, maybe I was too negative about other physios. Like maybe that's bad. Maybe I shouldn't talk badly about like the elite environment. I was like, You're just worried about it coming back and someone being angry at me, you know? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, but I think like, that's, fear is always going to be there, but like, as long as you're confident in your message and the way you do things and you're speaking from a place, like you're speaking about things you actually believe and you... You're not like to hurt anyone, you know what mean? So you kind of just have to back your message and some people are gonna like it, some people aren't gonna like it. But as long as you're Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: happy with what you're talking about and the opinions you're giving out and the way you're running your business, think that's all you can really focus on really. Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, it's easier said than done, but I do agree. do agree. think, I think we'd, Josh Hanlon: Yeah, of course it's easier said than done, like... Luke Pollock: yeah. When you're a bit lost, it's very easy to look at what other people are doing and be like, maybe I should start doing that. Maybe I should start doing that. That's why it's good to talk to someone though, who also does it regularly and be like, these are normal feelings. Actually it's more about who can get distracted less and just keep. doing the same things without getting too distracted and paralyzed by what Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: butt should I post that sounds good? Josh Hanlon: But it's also, it's a cycle as well. you, the more you compare yourself, the more you're going to feel lost, you know what mean? And then Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: you feel lost. You're like trying to look at all these other things to try and see what you should be doing. And then you just now feel more lost. Like, you know what I So it's just like, sometimes it's just by blocking out all the other shit and just focusing on your message, what you're doing. Luke Pollock: Yeah, who you can help. What did you think of my little Champ Rugby post? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I liked it. I know we spoke last week or maybe the week before about it, but like no one knew you were never gonna do your standard day in the life. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I knew I wasn't going to do it when I started. Catherine last Tuesday was like, let's, let's do it today. And she started recording me making coffee. And I was like, I hate this. I hate this. Cause I was just picturing what the really would look like. And I was going to be like, I wake up, have a coffee. And I, that is fine. But I think that's quite like old school style content. Like people have seen that a million and one times. So I'm just like, I have nothing new to offer here. Like my life, Jenra genuinely doesn't look too dissimilar to a lot of semi-professional players lives or. you know, professional players lives. Like we all like to do the same thing. We like to drink coffee, like to go to the gym, like to laugh with people before training and then go to training. Unless you're like a very eccentric person or like you, you're hilarious or something, which I'm not. So it just really stressed me out last Tuesday morning videoing it. And then, yeah, I talked to you a little bit about like me making it a little bit different. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, but comes with like what we were saying, like you were like, I need to do that in life here. initially the first draft is always like the exact same as what everyone else has done previously, you know what mean? But like Luke Pollock: Hmm. Josh Hanlon: just taking the thought to think, I actually don't, I might want to put this slightly differently. Like I'll say it took a wee bit of thought in terms of the way you're going to go around it, but. Luke Pollock: Yeah. And like it didn't actually do, it didn't actually do that well. Like I, my rehab videos normally do like they, they're doing better than that video. But I think I'm not at the point where I'm like, if I'm just, if I'm happy and proud to post it in a way I'm not as bothered. Like obviously I still want the stuff to do well, obviously, cause it is a bit of a reflection of how it's landed with people. And I take Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: it and I'll learn from it. But I'm not like, hit that video where that video's so cringe. I actually do believe in everything I said in the video. So yeah, it matters to me less if it popped up in someone's phone in front of me now. And I think that's a good sign of the balance of what you, yeah, when you knew you should post something is like, are you proud of it? Are you happy with the end product? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, 100%. That's all you can really do. As long as you're happy with who you're putting out, the numbers will look after themselves in my eyes. Sometimes Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: you can get a wee bit fixated on them, I'm probably at the other end of the spectrum now where I don't really look at the numbers enough. Probably I should go write that to them while I go down that channel a wee bit more, but yeah, sometimes it's just like... Luke Pollock: Yeah. Tell you what I did Josh Hanlon: I'm good. Luke Pollock: yesterday, which is a little bit of a hack hack insight for watching. I went through like the top people. I know I just said to try doctor. This is what I did yesterday. I went through like the top accounts that I like outside of just physio and SNC. So like any people who make money from having this kind of that I watched and I like, so it could be from loads of different niches. And I went down. their profile, like copy and paste the URL, wrote a line about what I like about it, and then made a cloud scale to go and like, scrape all the information off their page from the last three months. So it's like 500 posts from like 15 or 18 different people. And then it compared like how my likes and my engagement compared obviously my I was like the second I had like the second lowest of all the clients in terms of views per month, but In terms of likes, it was like I was in the top like five or something in terms of likes per like view, if that makes sense. That was pretty cool. And then you could just ask all that really specific questions like what are they doing differently here? What they're doing differently here. So that is a good, good little hack if you're struggling to know why your content is not doing well. And it's don't just look at people who've got like 4 million followers because they could literally post anything. Look at people who've got like, if you've got like 1k, look people who've got 5k. got 5k look people have got 10 like a lot of my clients were sitting around the town of 200k mark that I put on there you can imagine who they were Josh Josh Hanlon: Yeah, you love it like. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I know I'm a little nerd, but I think AI is making it so much more like it's tailoring it more to me now because I can like dive into the numbers behind it and be like, okay, what actually makes it good? What makes it bad? and that will help your, business and your page grow. No matter if you, you like it or not. Josh Hanlon: know, I don't know, you're, you're pretty good at that sort of, like the actual thought behind the content side of it as well and like the way to structure a video and stuff. But yeah, I probably need to do even more of that. Luke Pollock: Yeah, but like ultimately it is just like you can think about it as much as you want. And sometimes when I do a session like that, I come away being like, yeah, that's good. That's a good work blog, but I have nothing to show from it. like, while that was fun and cool to do yesterday, I don't know that it's actually pushed me forward a lot more. Like if I posted four of my own videos and got some feedback on it, I probably don't know more about. Yeah, I suppose it was just cool to say. And that's not like, that doesn't feel like work for me. Talking to Claude is past time at this point, Josh Hanlon: You Can't see Luke Pollock: How are you using all cloud at the minute? Josh Hanlon: me going down that at the minute. Yeah, I'll see how the website and a few things run through it like so. Yeah, I think as well, you said, there are sometimes you can, with like the likes of Claude and different tools and ideas, like sometimes you can sit and pretend you're doing work for like a couple hours and then you look back and you're like, what have I actually done there? And it's Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: realistically very little. So yeah, probably just trying to be a bit more selective with my time and stuff at the minute. Luke Pollock: Bass is so crazy. Josh Hanlon: As someone who gets distracted 24-7, it's just me trying to maybe not do projects like that there would be Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: more beneficial for me, I'd say. Luke Pollock: I yeah, I do agree, but I think also, I just said it is crazy that you like, you said on my website and a few other bits, but like you've got a website and then you've built out a full like group coaching thing using Claude to code like the back end of all. And you've pretty much like whatever you could imagine that you wanted there, you just built into it. So for anyone listening, he is massively under telling how much he used it. But like, and that was. mostly in a week if you just did that, which is pretty cool. you've made your own coaching platform pretty much. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, Wicker too, yeah. Yeah, I mean, since I've got all that up and running, I definitely haven't been using it as much, but yeah, suppose to be fair, there was a couple of weights building there, helping me build the grip coaching. Yeah, was very much locked in. Luke Pollock: Yeah. And, do you still feel like there's a stigma around or do you think it's going to the stigma? I like around AI usage. Josh Hanlon: There probably is because like every time you open your social media you'll see like some form of business or some sort of sports club put up a poster from Chachi Petit and they all look exactly the same. So you're just like, fuck me. But then Luke Pollock: Yeah, what is that? They all use the same font and stuff. That's so good. Josh Hanlon: at the same time, like people that use it properly, you're like, okay, well. If this is such powerful tool and this can do a task that I either can't do, or it can do a task that maybe would take me whatever amount of time and like literally way less than half the time that I could do it, I'm better. It's Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: like, yeah. But also like it doesn't replace, doesn't replace you. It's just good to use for different systems or like tracking clients or. I don't know, automating some form of emails, things like that, you know, it was just like, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: in a world where like, you're basically, you can learn to do basically anything now through AI, like you just ask it and go, how did I do this? And it's gonna tell you, you know, it might take you a month, it might take you a couple of months, but like, realistically, you can basically learn whatever you want through it now. Like, yeah, just learn. Using the first things like that. But yeah, definitely people are like, Well, that's all AI, that's all AI. But like, I can see the point because sometimes I go on and like that it's just pure copy and paste from AI. But yeah, I think that that side of it, obviously, like you see people using it for social media posts and like, like you can tell it's completely copy and pasted, captions copied and pasted, emails, you can like spam the emails every day and you're like, there's no way that boy's writing that email every day. mean, but like Luke Pollock: Yeah. Where do you think, where do you think the line is for like, obviously I think most people would agree they have no problem with our websites being coded using chat2bt or Claude, sorry. Unlike us making coaching platforms using Claude, cause that's just coding, right? That we don't know how to do. Where's the line where it's like, I'm where it can be detrimental to your business. Josh Hanlon: I think in my head if I can write something myself... I should be writing it myself, you know what mean? Because ultimately I'm the coach and although Luke Pollock: Yeah, I think that's a good rule. Yeah. Josh Hanlon: you can prompt to the college come home, like ultimately you can't, it can't replace the way you speak and it can't replace the way you think. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: So like, yeah, I'll use it for like the backend stuff, the systems, the emails, like keeping track of my client, like database and stuff on it. But in terms of social media posts, writing actual emails, I feel like that should all be done. by myself because people want, I think probably in it, because as AI has come more popular as well, people are like able to sift through the shite a wee bit more. they're like, sometimes it's, you know yourself and you go on, it's refreshing to read someone who's actually talking about something through their Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: own experience as opposed to like just some sort of thing that's just blabbered straight out of AI. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I agree. I think that was a good rule. If you can write it yourself, like you probably should. And that doesn't go to code because we can write code. And like there's stuff that, Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I definitely can't write code like... Luke Pollock: yeah, and there's stuff that we actually can do ourselves that we Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: would have to pay for normally. And I think that's where it really excites me is like, you're going to get now to the point where you can be making. 10 grand plus months without having an employee or just having some people on as like freelance. Whereas before you couldn't run a one person business at that scale. Well, maybe you could, but I don't know. This type of business, you can run it at that scale without bringing on more physios, more coaches earlier or like a marketing team or someone to handle your in bonds and stuff. But now you just will be able to subcontract more stuff out to. the skills so that you can focus on the thing that you're showing, which is like coaching and creating content to educate people. I think that's where I see it going. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I think the way I look at it is like, it doesn't replace you as a coach, but if it frees up more of your time to do actual coaching, like if it means I get a couple hours free that I don't have to spend doing admin, that I can actually spend making content, talking to clients, getting back to people, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: then if anything, it's gonna make me a better coach, you know what mean? Luke Pollock: Yeah. I think also when you don't write, when you're not writing the posts, this is for anyone who is like new to content. When you're not writing the posts, like you might think, why is he able to, Sean Casey is a good example. Why is he able to make like complex, well, inverted commas, complex topic of weight loss and fat loss sounds so simple. It's cause the lad has like. Over a thousand posts on the topic, you know, and he's written captions. He's replied to DMS. He's talked about it so much. And that allows you to be a lot more succinct when you're talking about it. If you try to tell AI to make it succinct, then like I've done it in like two years ago. And it first came out, it just like produces a little waffle that you don't really understand. And that's not coming across in a personal way. So I think you lose like the soft skills as well as not it not being engaging for people. It's like not. you're not getting better at the thing either, which makes your business better. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, particularly for like the likes of the businesses we run, like it's, it's not that they're human connection based businesses. You know what mean? Like Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: a majority of my business is one to one coaching and I'll see the group coaching as well. like, like that shouldn't, people need to hear your opinions, the way you speak, like how passionate you are with things like Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: They don't need to hear what Chachamteach version of it is. And you can tell from my love as well, like you see things on social media, you're like, that is not, that person has not written that, do know what mean? Mainly because if I read Luke Pollock: Yeah, I like the certain Josh Hanlon: it, there'd be spell mistakes and punctuation and grammar mistakes all over it. Luke Pollock: Yeah. There are certain people like I just don't open their emails now. It's almost like they've been lost to the AI cause. You're just like automated AI emails and you think this is class now. Josh Hanlon: If you're getting an email every day from someone, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: it's more than likely that's automated and they probably haven't read it. Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah. Tell you what I did use it for as well and I will continue to. It's presentation. like for my clients, they'll go through their education modules and instead of me like writing new slide title of this, I'll give it like a brief of what this module and what this video is on, what I wanted to include. It'll like make the presentation for me. I'll then go back through the presentation. change the word and delete a load of it because it always does too much. And then I'll record myself talking over the presentation, which I feel like Josh Hanlon: Yeah, but- Luke Pollock: it's fine because no one really reads what's on the presentation. could just be like some bullet points and I'll talk about it, you know? Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: So yeah, that's as close to the line as I'm getting. And then brainstorming content ideas as well, I think it's quite good for us. So like what is, like I did yesterday, what are these people doing? How can I implement that? But like, see, if you ask it to give you like a script or a caption, always terrible. The post is always going to be bad as well. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I think. in my head it's like, use it for what it's good at and like what you're not so good at. For example, coding, making websites, but like as long Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: as you're writing the content and I think you know yourself as well. Like if you, if you do something with AI and you're like, you get a gut feeling, you're like, I'm taking a piss here. You, you probably are, you know, you probably are. Yeah. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should stop yourself. Josh Hanlon: I was like, you'll know. And then you're like, right, okay, you can't automate, you can't get AI to do everything for you. Like sometimes you just need to Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: do it, but work yourself. Which is mental as Luke Pollock: Yeah, I think it... Josh Hanlon: well, like even like coaching schools and stuff is like, I see like the boys and they're like, you'd be hearing them talk about their studies or whatever, just like, did it in AI. It's like, how is anyone, like if I had that in school, I would not have done a single drop of work. Like, I don't know Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: how. Everyone's gonna like leave in school now how you like navigate doing stuff without it. Luke Pollock: Yeah, no, no, and it'll be the same and like you try and make the business we have now if you wait like another two or three years, I just don't think you'll be able to do it because I think there's going to be so many accounts pop up now because it's so like appealing to you can make the full business like it's such low friction and then there's going to be like AI accounts as well on there. I just think social media is going to change a lot. I don't know. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, then that also that's just reinforces the fact that you shouldn't be using it the right you're like anything you can write. You should you should be writing yourself Luke Pollock: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Josh Hanlon: because it just means like like people, especially for coaching and like working on their physios and stuff, want to know that they want to know more about you. They want to know your thoughts. Luke Pollock: Yeah, and we're gonna have a big advantage, right? Cause we're gonna have a big long list of proof that like we've been doing it before. They're like infiltrated mainstream social media. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: And it already is a little bit, people, there's very few like full AI accounts. Like if you've seen that one girl who's a fully AI account, she's got like, like a million followers or something, but she's just an AI. Josh Hanlon: and that would scare me. Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, so there's just going to be lots more people like that, but like who do jobs like ours. I know Jim's too big on this, like you've only got a few more years to left, but he's probably just trying to push sales. But I actually do think it's true. Like you got a few more years to be properly differentiated from those who were here before and have been doing it a long time, which I think is quite cool. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I also think it will go full circle though. it's only like, Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, we're gonna have like, Josh Hanlon: it'll go like AI, like it's becoming, it's probably like on the cost of it, man, it'll go mental for a while. And then everyone will be like, fuck AI altogether. Let's go back to let's actually talk Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: to each other. know, like someone asked me recently was like, do you not think like AI will take your job? Like, cause like you could put in there and make you a full program or do whatever and Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: look after your teachers. I was like, well, no, because people pay for coaching. Firstly, if that was the case, everyone would be absolutely yoked and in class neck, but also people Luke Pollock: Mm. Josh Hanlon: pay for coaching because they want to talk to someone and AI can't decide what someone needs at the right time. They can't read someone's emotions. You know what mean? Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah. One of Josh Hanlon: It's just like... Luke Pollock: my, one of my mates from, from a while back was making, was doing a half marathon and he also wanted to cut as well. So we were done this really aggressive chat, GBT like half marathon and cotton program. Pretty much he ended up like, we don't really know what happened. assumed stress fracture because he was just running so much. Obviously he could tell AI like, I think he a stress fracture or whatever because he didn't know but yeah, that's the other side of it. Like if you give it anything, be like, I want six pack of abs in six weeks at the minute. The LLMs aren't like, they're just too agreeable. So they'll be like, okay, this is your plan and it'll just be mental. So yeah. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. But also like if you think about people who can't listen to instructions from real people, what makes you think what's yeah, Luke Pollock: Yeah, who give real accountability. Yeah. Josh Hanlon: what makes you what makes people think that a robot you're going to listen to a robot like. Luke Pollock: Yeah. And I think that's also talking about it very like with the person you asked you that is thinking, well, here's just the program, like just follow the program. And that is looking at like what we do is more of like you're a builder, like building a chair or a table rather than like it's it's more like you're a bit of Yeah, like it's a bit, it goes a bit a layer deeper than that. think coaching does, we have to like get to know the person, get to know what makes them work. And it's not just like, here's the script. Let me read it off to you. know, otherwise we could Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: just, yeah, sell like one program for everyone. Josh Hanlon: I mean, you could look up online and right now and be like, well, even without AI, just on Google and find millions of PDFs for programs. It's like, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: go ahead. But like if someone's coming to work with you on the one, they're not just looking at program, you know? They're looking at Luke Pollock: No, exactly. Josh Hanlon: all the support and everything that comes with it. Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Here I had a call yesterday with a rugby lad who's doing online coaching and he had a few interesting things going on. It took me back to our first call, but he was asking me like about billing and how do you get more clients and all this. I didn't actually tell you about that, but yeah, it was good. He's charging weekly. That was like my mate Josh Hanlon wouldn't like you charging weekly. Josh Hanlon: Is it or more? Luke Pollock: Yeah, it comes out all minute, but yeah, still. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Yeah. Fair. play to them. Luke Pollock: What's the problem with charging weekly drives? Spit it out. Josh Hanlon: whatever works for him. Luke Pollock: Nah, actually tell me because you did the same for me. I was charging monthly when I came to you, remember? Back in the day. Josh Hanlon: You retarded Mothair weekly. Luke Pollock: Monthly and you were like, lad, stop charging monthly, like charge for 12 weeks if you need to charge monthly. Josh Hanlon: And yeah, well, I think not only from a money point of view, but also like a coaching point of view is like, if you're someone up for a month, like how much progress are you actually gonna see in a month? know, by the time you get someone on board, they do a couple of sessions. they're doing optimistically four sessions a week, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: that's 16 sessions max in the month. how much progress do you expect to see in that time? So that's why coaches, well, there's probably an extra reason why coaches push minimum commitment times, but that's probably the main reason is because, yes, you might start to feel a wee bit better after a month. Yes, you'll start to see some progress, build some habits, but rarest, you're not seeing a pile of change. You're not anything significant, anyway. Luke Pollock: Yeah, you won't. Yeah, like what can you get done for weeks like so little? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, but also, also like a lot of people, even like a conversation that I've been having with clients recently is like, people probably overestimate how much they can do in like three months and underestimate how much they can do in like a year. So like, you'll work with someone for three months and they'll be happy with where they're at, but maybe they're like, it probably opens their eyes to being like, I have so much more in me here. It's like, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: yeah. Of course you do, just expand that time horizon a bit longer. Think of a year down the line, that's when you actually are gonna see serious, serious change because everything Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: stacks up. Yes, you can get a bit stronger, can get a bit faster in three months, but in terms of significant changes to your physical attributes, it's gonna take a bit longer. Luke Pollock: Yeah. And I said to him, will, like, you will clear out the mess or so much quicker if you're like, here's a slightly more expensive price because I want you to commit for longer. Like it does make sense for both people. You don't have to stress about making it like a big plan for them and them going after one month. And Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: you also know that like this person's probably pretty serious about what they're saying on the call. Cause How many calls have we been in and they're like chat, they talk to talk and then they'd like, yeah, I'll get back to you. No worries. I'll be back to you. they've just. Spied absolute rubbish for the last half hour and they were just actually wanting to see how expensive it was and waste both your time. like, yeah, you get, you cut through the noise a lot more by people who actually do want to make progress and it makes for better life. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I think at the start as well, you're probably like, because you want clients, you're like, you'll put up with a wee bit more uncertainty and Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Josh Hanlon: faffing about than you like I would now. Like if someone, if I have a call with someone, they know the price before they come on the call, because what's the point of me sitting and talking to someone for 30 minutes, 45 minutes for them to turn around and be like, I can't do that. said, right, well, I could have just told you that 45 minutes ago and saved us both this whole phone call, you know? But like, obviously at the start, like, Luke Pollock: Yeah, I actually for the first time Josh Hanlon: you you're trying to almost sell on the call, as opposed Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: to just making it like, no, it's just an onboarding call. you know, it's just like, you're already committed to this. Let's get it sorted. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I am for the first time yesterday. This happened to me. I so allowed who came to me with a previous knee injury, not an ACL injury has since torn his ACL and his other leg. An army thing anyway, came to me where the call I was like, I've I've upped my prices since we last talked, but I'm happy to do like do you a bit less just because you're returning clan or whatever and you trust me. And I was like, so it'll be this amount per month, obviously, I prefer if you pay three months, he's like, can I just do six months upfront? And I was like, yeah, yeah, you can do that as well. That'd be nice. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, mean that's happened to me before as well. Dads are like, commonly be like, well, if I don't, I want to do this for say like, like for example, like people are maybe going off to join a new team in September or August and they'll come to you maybe at the start of year, like I have six months here. I'm just going to pay up front and say happy days. Like, but also, you Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, so good because. Josh Hanlon: know, you know, then as soon as they say something like that, you're like, this person's an absolute operator. Luke Pollock: Exactly. Yeah. When he said that I was like, like he's super dialed in and then we could just be like, okay, this is your pre like, we'll get talking about pre-op and there's just no waffle anymore. And I just love people that are like committal people and they're like, this is what I want to do. This is my word. And then I should get it done. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, but to be fair, I think sometimes people are wee bit apprehensive and doubtful because there is definitely a lot of coaches or PTs, probably less physio's to be fair, who are either useless or just take the piss away. They're charging Luke Pollock: Yeah, and they're taking the hand with how much they charge as well. Like we do not charge that much. Josh Hanlon: the arm and leg and like, they're probably not getting the money they deserve. They're getting them to lock in for a couple of months and at a time, like six months at a time, charge them a fortune. And I think that's why there's definitely people have heard some horror stories about people working with coaches. I think there's definitely majority of people have a wee bit of a question mark before it, which is completely fine. Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah. And that's fair. And those are the type of questions I think you should be answering more in the onboarding call. Like, or the initial Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: call was like concerns they might have. Is there a way that they can drop out the program if they need to? Like those types of things are Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: all like, those are all things that I would want to know as a client rather than just be like, yeah, here's a good portion of Bonnie. Have at it, you know. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, well, I think that's the way I look at it. It's just like, what would you, if you were signing up or thinking about working with someone, what would you want to know? And what would you, what would put you off? You know what mean? It's just Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: like, just reassuring them like, and that's where your onboarding process comes in, just making everything crystal clear. Be like, this is what's, this is what I, this is my side of the deal. This is what you need to bring. This is the grade. This is the agreement. And then let's go into it. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: because it just removes all that sort of uncertainty. I'm Luke Pollock: 100%. Josh Hanlon: definitely not jealous of your mate who has to put up with sort of the uncertain. There's all for encouraging lads to come on, but we're probably out of stage now, we're like, unless you're in, we're not gonna, don't really have the time to sit and hold your hand and. Luke Pollock: Yeah. I would sort of say to him like you got, you got to be a service in round, like who's actually going to do well in the program as well. Like obviously you Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: can control some people will just be rubbish, but, if you might, if you find a good fit and you're like, you're definitely going to see a lot of progress. So officially you're going to get a great testimonial, which is like, you can use time and time again, like the money will come and it won't go, you'll spend it. You'll use it back in the business, but the testimonial will never. you'll use it for forever, you So I was like, you kind of got a reframe you're thinking about rather than just getting people in the door for cheap prices, like who's going to go the whole way and give you a good testimonial end of it. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: And once you get a good few of those, then you're laughing. Josh Hanlon: but also as well like do you want to speak to this person every day? know what mean? Like we're Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: working one to one with these athletes. you're working fairly close with them. You're talking to them pretty much every day. You're on calls with them regularly. It's like... I think whenever you sort of set the standard of the certain type of person you want, everything just flows so much better because you work with people you like and like pretty much everyone I have on the minute apart from like maybe two lads who don't drink, I would definitely go for a beer with, you know what mean? Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a good roll. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, so they're all like, they're all good lads, a couple of girls as well. But like, It makes you enjoy your day to day a wee bit more and Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: you're not like, you sit down at the laptop with text and some of your mates back, almost like, you know, it's not like, Luke Pollock: Yeah, I... Josh Hanlon: formal, formal, having to chase someone up all the time. It's just like, great. Luke Pollock: It's not super like corporate like, hi mate! How are you doing today? Yeah. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. It's usually one of first couple of weeks when I start working with someone, if they start text every message, like, hi mate, and then signing the message off their name. I'm like, mate, just fire me through what you need. I don't Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: need a big message. Like, send me a voice note if it's quicker, like, fire me through what you need. Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, I'm skeptical around voice notes though, because I don't like listening to five minute voice notes. I'm like, please get to the point. But it is easier to. Josh Hanlon: I know, there's coaches that don't allow voice notes at all. Luke Pollock: I know it's pretty savage that I quite Josh Hanlon: But like. Luke Pollock: like him because you can hear sometimes in people's tone of voice how they're feeling. Josh Hanlon: Exactly, yeah. If you read a message, you just take the information from the message. You don't hear how the person actually feels. Especially with injuries and for your side of things. If someone sends you a voicemail, you Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Josh Hanlon: can hear that they're hating their life. You're like, okay, I'll probably follow up with this. Luke Pollock: Yeah, Will, the guy posted there the other day, he was like, obviously struggling with extension stuff and he sent me a voice though. And he's trying to be positive in the voice. He's like, yeah, man, no, yeah, it's going well, I think. I like, just by that, you're like, okay, it's not going well, you know? If Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: someone comes on and like, yeah, I'm buzzing, man, it's going really well, then you know. So yeah, I think voicenotes have their place, play their part. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, definitely. Luke Pollock: Yeah. What were you gonna say? Josh Hanlon: Nothing. Go ahead. Luke Pollock: Okay, I was gonna say before we finish, tell us about Portugal. Maybe the next podcast we do will be in Portugal. Josh Hanlon: Hmm, not a bad idea. Can I go for paper? Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: Hola. Luke Pollock: Alright, my go. Yeah, Portugal, how was it? Portugal. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, good crack. Good to go on holiday and come back from holiday feeling like you don't need another holiday. So yeah, Luke Pollock: Yeah, agreed. Josh Hanlon: just away with two mates who are also coaches and two mates who love doing a bit of training, probably more than anyone I know. So yeah, serious bit of training was done. Drink too many coffees and... Yeah, have a bit of, enjoy a bit of time in the sun. Probably burnt the candle both Luke Pollock: the modern man, flat white and like a bit of high rocks. Josh Hanlon: ends a wee bit. Couple beers in the evenings, but yeah, still got a serious bit of work done and just nice to get out to a different environment, I find as well. Luke Pollock: I think if we do go in October, we're both going to be like mid-season, you know? So Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: I don't actually know how much we'll be able to train. My body might be hurting. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, a dime wafer would be a better up brush down, I'd say. Luke Pollock: Yeah, we built our birds, we built pool time, saw a nice bath. Josh Hanlon: Well, we were all all season there. Well, preseason whenever we were there last week or two weeks ago. So, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: yeah, we did a serious bit of training, but yeah, it's just good to get, you change the scenery, find, especially like whenever you're... Go ahead. Luke Pollock: Yeah, we talked about we talked about the fact that like we actually have like a large part of why I started online coaching is because I thought it'd be really cool to be able to work from a laptop and then 99 % of the day I spend in the same room anyway. So we actually need to utilize going away a bit more. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, a hundred percent. I think as well, like we spoke about it before, it's just like, it's definitely not healthy to be, although like there's definitely, you have to put yourself in front of your laptop and do a bit of work. It's definitely not healthy to spend all week, just you in a room with your laptop, like all day, every day. just, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: I've, I know you're probably better at it me, but trying to make conscious effort to. either work somewhere else or go and meet someone that you maybe wouldn't have normally met or something like that just for a bit of novelty or do that, Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: do a trip like that. Luke Pollock: Crazy problem to have, mum. Crazy problem to have. I used to like literally when I left... Josh Hanlon: It is. Do you see Sean Casey talking about it as well? Luke Pollock: What a sauna thing. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, he was like the whole reason he started the sauna thing was well, I know he's not there now, but because he said he just Luke Pollock: Yeah, it's okay. Josh Hanlon: sat in his room and on his laptop all day. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I know. But like, yeah, I literally like dreamed of when I left the house in the morning to a job I don't want to go to, was like, I'd love to just sit at home and do my own thing. And then a new problem crops up when you're doing that. But like, to be fair, I much much prefer this problem. It's a lot easier solved. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, for sure, yeah. Luke Pollock: You can go out for a walk, go to a coffee shop, and all quite Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: nice things to do, you know. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, 100%. you remember you said about getting the office space, you still going to that? Luke Pollock: No, because I was going to do like a wee workspace or something, but. Josh Hanlon: What is that? Luke Pollock: it's like a coworking space in London where you can just like pay a monthly subscription. They've got like a cafe and they've got hot desk and self so you can go around and go get wifi and stuff. But actually like, I was just thinking about it from my job. Like say I went there for nine every day. Now I wouldn't be able to do this. Like this, we started this Josh Hanlon: Mm-hmm. Luke Pollock: at nine. so when people do podcasts, wouldn't be able to. like record videos really if it was unless it was like a bit more privatized but yeah I think it's just better to be in like your own space for a bit of creativity and then if you need to get all you can get like go to a coffee shop and a flip and they're so expensive it was gonna be like more than 200 quite a month which isn't too bad if it was gonna make a really big difference but I was like I'd rather just invest more into like myself at home try and get like yeah try and make sure that's dialed in. Josh Hanlon: practice the coffee art at home. Luke Pollock: Yeah, it's all gone now, but it was good actually this morning, I have to say. I have to say, not bad. Right, do you have anything more to add to our sweet, sweet listeners or are we good? Should we call it a wrap? Josh Hanlon: I've been enjoying the podcast the solo part so last couple of weeks Luke Pollock: Yeah, we finally broke this old podcast curse. I've done about 10 in a row now. This Josh Hanlon: Alright. Luke Pollock: is my 31st podcast. Josh Hanlon: pretty good. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I've done what one to five sort of podcasts in a row. It's nice to talk to someone. Josh Hanlon: Who was the last guest? Luke Pollock: Guy James McGahey of physio. But I'm talking to I'm actually getting PT performance on next week. You know that guy? Yeah. Josh Hanlon: really nice. Yeah, He's a good podcast. Luke Pollock: Yeah, he's good, really good at speaking and he's been in the game for a while, you know. And I Josh Hanlon: I think Luke Pollock: feel like I just get the vibe from him. Maybe he's talked about it before, so I'm looking forward to talking him about it, but like that he doesn't really care much about like the size of his page and stuff. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, well think like sometimes you see you can see people's pages and they coach or like coaches or physios whatever and they have like massive followings and you're like you're you're obviously a decent coach like and you've got a massive following but like sometimes people look at people with massive followings and go like he's a class coach because he's got a massive Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: following and then in reality that's just not how it works but I feel like he He's deaf. He starts out as someone you would look at and go like, he knows his shit as a coach. Like he Luke Pollock: Yeah, 100%. Josh Hanlon: seems like a really good coach. And yeah, obviously he's a pretty good following, think as well, does he not? Luke Pollock: Yeah, I think it's grown quite a lot recently. He's got like over 10k now, but yeah, he, I suppose he just provides quite like niche information. Like he was providing rehab tips on osteitis pubis, which is a pretty niche injury, but I like, I can't wait to talk to him about that. That's what we're going to talk to him about, obviously. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, his podcast is good as well. I think he understands athletes quite well and team environments and things like that, which is always quite interesting, I find. Luke Pollock: Yeah, he's one of the good guys for sure. Like definitely someone who you can tell. Well, we're just really kissing his ass right now before he comes on. yeah, yeah, here's Josh Hanlon: We're gonna have to this out. It's gonna be like, who are these two weirdos? Luke Pollock: two weirdos watching me from afar. But now someone you can tell like actually is very invested in learning more so he can produce a better product, which I think is cool. Josh Hanlon: Nice, any other gas lined up? Luke Pollock: Nah, meant to have, I was meant to have Alex Morrell on. I was, and I'm still torn to Brian with it, like whether to go out of the S and C physio space a little bit. And I think I might, I just talked to more people that I find interesting that have like businesses in London. I could do some in person stuff with, but it's just a lot more efforts than after written a studio, which are like. are expensive and then the techs are boostier day. This is so handy because we can just jump online and do it. yeah, I don't know. I also like, I like the solo pod because it gives me after I do one, I'll have ideas for content and stuff. it's like, Josh Hanlon: It gives me good ideas for content as well as your filopods. Keep them coming. Luke Pollock: Do they? Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: I'm here to serve. I'm here to serve. But no, don't really think so. Open to suggestions. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I've been putting the podcast off myself and I always book about it a few times. Luke Pollock: Yeah, you're do it. Josh Hanlon: I so. Cheers. Luke Pollock: You definitely should. Do you think you would do solo pods or guests? Josh Hanlon: I think I need to get a couple of... think I might share both. This would Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: be the way forward. But like, know, like even doing podcasts with you, you're like chatting with someone about a topic. Like it just reinforces it in your head, know, like ideas and how you think can all make sense in your head. But if you can't communicate it and like articulate your thoughts, then it kind of means nothing, you know. So just getting Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: some practice doing that I is always good. And also just like, I think a podcast is a good way to have a good conversation with someone. Luke Pollock: Yeah. And you met go a lot more connections throughout the like you met connections with people that you wouldn't otherwise be able to reach or talk to really, which is quite nice. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: because it gives them a platform where they can get clips and that's like the, the, the cheat code behind it is like on the, on the surface. Yeah. I just like talking to people, but then you actually get to know people that you wouldn't be able to talk to otherwise. So it's quite cool. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Yeah, we'll get it done. Luke Pollock: Well that's your job today lad. Josh Hanlon: hours of to do to it as well. Luke Pollock: Bye, good to chat to you. Maybe I'll be on yours next time in Portugal. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I'm going to interview you for my first time you come on mine, I think. Luke Pollock: Yeah, that'd be good. I like that. You got to be careful. Josh Hanlon: proper interview. Luke Pollock: I don't get too deep there. Cause that can happen. Josh Hanlon: I know I'll try and keep you straight to the point. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I look forward to it. Right, cheers Josh. Josh Hanlon: So I'm it.