Latest / The Soap Box Podcast / Why you don’t need big numbers to make big change, with Louis Watkins

Transcript

Why you don’t need big numbers to make big change, with Louis Watkins · The Soap Box Podcast

1:18
Today on soapbox, I'm talking to Louis Watkins, the founder of Clear for Men, which is a skincare brand designed to do more than clean your face.
1:28
It's that daily reminder to take five minutes for yourself.
1:32
It sounds pretty straightforward, but Louie is frankly an inspiration and I, I don't say that about a lot of people.
1:41
his mission is to normalize mental health conversations.
1:44
Amongst men.
1:46
he is a huge advocate for mental health.
1:48
Personally struggled with challenges around his own mental health, around 2020.
1:54
and he really wants to break that stigma that surrounds this topic.
1:59
He wants to create a space where men can feel comfortable to pause and reflect and care for their mental and physical wellbeing.
2:07
and he's created this brand to be like a physical reminder to do that every morning.
2:13
His story's incredible.
2:14
His vision is incredible.
2:16
His, his passionate and his enthusiasm, his empathy are all off the charts.
2:23
Um, and since he's launched, clear for Men.
2:25
He's raised hundreds of pounds for mental health charities, had hundreds of meaningful conversations and helped hundreds of men take five.
2:33
so I'm really looking forward to you, hearing this conversation with Louis, uh, partly because talking about men's mental health is, um, is a really worthwhile topic.
2:45
and a worthwhile conversation to have, um, partly because I'm really excited about you hearing Louis talk about the journey that he's been on and, and the things that he's doing, but also because I think Louis is a brilliant example of how business can be more than one thing, about how you can have different types of KPIs, as you, as you build your business.
3:13
And about how is anything but a linear path.
3:16
sit back, get ready to be inspired whilst you sip on your coffee or fold your laundry and listen to Louis get on his soapbox.
3:25
Peta: Louis, it is really lovely to have you on the Soapbox podcast.
3:28
Peta: Thanks for coming.
3:29
Louis: Very much for having me.
3:30
Louis: I really appreciate it.
3:31
Peta: Yeah, it's cool.
3:32
Peta: Um, for people who have not come across you online or in the real world, um, can you give them a little bit of runt on who you are, what you do, um, and how you got here?
3:41
Louis: Yeah.
3:41
Louis: So my name is Louis.
3:43
Louis: I'm the founder of a brand called Clear for Men.
3:45
Louis: It's a skincare problem that's breaking the stigma around mental health and giving men a daily reminder to take five.
3:50
Louis: I wanna help men not only feel more confident in their skin, but I also wanna be that role model for men.
3:54
Louis: To see that talking about vulnerability and expressing emotions is, isn't a weak thing to do, but it's actually strength and seeking the support.
4:00
Louis: And for every sale we've done it, 15% profit mental health charities as well.
4:03
Louis: So yeah, all aside from my own mental health journey back in 2021, I really wanna try and make a difference in the world and, and how people see that they're on
4:11
Peta: That's cool.
4:12
Peta: I, um, I bought some for a
4:14
Louis: You did?
4:15
Louis: Yes.
4:15
Louis: Thank you.
4:16
Louis: Yes.
4:16
Peta: Um, he is, he's terrible at taking care of himself, so I was like, you need to, you need to have this product and you need to, um, to read all about the brand and about Louis.
4:25
Peta: So, um, and he loves those things is great.
4:26
Peta: So it's
4:27
Louis: Oh, I'm glad.
4:28
Louis: Thank you so much.
4:29
Peta: Cool.
4:29
Peta: Um, so.
4:31
Peta: People who come on this podcast, um, because of the name, because I like a theme.
4:35
Peta: Um, we don't really talk about the thing that is really important to you.
4:40
Peta: Um.
4:41
Peta: Around kind of different elements of justice, different elements of kind of health and, and equality and all those kind of things.
4:48
Peta: The thing that, you find yourself talking about at every opportunity, like talking people's ear off at parties, all that kind of thing.
4:55
Peta: Um, or at the gym or, yeah, whatever your thing is.
4:58
Peta: So Louis, what is your soapbox.
5:02
Louis: That is, that's a good question.
5:04
Louis: I, I, I think for me, I'm a big, big believer in like, I'm a big fan of like personal development, growing and, and doing things for ourselves and really learning about who we are as people.
5:17
Louis: I got really excited by it.
5:18
Louis: Like I had a call this morning with one of my friends who's in Australia and we were chatting for about an hour and we were just like trying to basically like.
5:26
Louis: Be our biggest motivators for one another and remind you that we can do these things even though they're really hard, we can do it.
5:32
Louis: And I think, like, I really like that, like that's like, I love talking to people about like goals and like my dreams and my ambitions, but also like hyping them up and be like, we can do the hard things.
5:41
Louis: I know how can be, we can do them.
5:44
Louis: Um, yeah, I'd say that's like, that's like the thing that I like to talk about a lot.
5:47
Louis: I, I like to talk about like, growth and, and planning and, and trying to make like a really positive.
5:53
Louis: It's different and, and like, because I think like a lot of the time, like we could be so scared to make a step, be scared to, I really like to, I really like to be that positive reinforcement that people sometimes need, um, because I know that it's something that I wish I had when I was younger.
6:08
Louis: Um, so I have that little bit belief in myself.
6:10
Louis: Um, but also like wellbeing as well, like mental health and reminding people that they're also like not alone and like normalizing those conversations because I think sometimes it can be quite an uncomfortable conversation to have.
6:22
Louis: Especially with people that you don't necessarily know.
6:24
Louis: Um, but I think talking about it and like me talking about it a lot, like every day is, is helping others see that they're not alone.
6:32
Louis: So yeah, I think they're, they're the two, I would say they're the two soap boxes.
6:36
Louis: I would say
6:37
Peta: That's cool.
6:38
Peta: Do you think that it is less common for men to have those kind of conversations?
6:43
Louis: yes and no.
6:46
Louis: I think it's, I think mainly yes.
6:49
Louis: I think mainly, I think definitely like.
6:52
Louis: Men.
6:54
Louis: From my experience, I feel as a men don't feel as though they can talk or they don't feel comfortable to talk, or it's that I don't know who to talk to.
7:01
Louis: Without the judgment, they, they're worried that the judgment.
7:04
Louis: Um, but I also think, I also do think we are getting better.
7:07
Louis: I think there is a, there is a, like this seeing a significant shift in the way that people are speaking and, and how they're interacting.
7:14
Louis: I was, I was at school yesterday, I did, um, a workshop.
7:17
Louis: They, it four, four different sessions with the, with the students.
7:22
Louis: Um, and the, I was talking about the importance of mental health.
7:25
Louis: And a lot of the young lads, they were really engaged in it.
7:30
Louis: Um, and it was really interesting to see'cause they, because you could tell that like, it was something that it didn't really speak about a lot, but I, I was, the way I was phrasing it was very much like, you aren't a burden for someone else.
7:42
Louis: So I was basically saying to people like, would you, would you want the person closest to you to think that they were being a burden on you when they needed help?
7:49
Louis: I was like, you wouldn't.
7:50
Louis: I was like, so.
7:52
Louis: Try and create that space where people feel comfortable to talk and we can try and break the stigma together.
7:57
Louis: Um, so I do think, I do think men still feel is, is as, even as someone who is a massive advocate for mental health, I still find it right to talk sometimes and, and be completely transparent.
8:09
Louis: Um, but I do think that as time is going on, we are getting better.
8:13
Louis: And that can send to a lot of.
8:15
Louis: Different factors.
8:16
Louis: And I think one of them is, is the fact that we have a lot of people, uh, who are like creating organizations or, or communities where people can come together.
8:24
Louis: And it's helping people to see that they're not alone.
8:27
Louis: And that okay, there is somewhere, there is somewhere I could go to, to talk about how I feel.
8:31
Louis: Um, so yeah, yeah.
8:32
Louis: Yes and no really, but more alongside the Yes side.
8:36
Louis: And I think that's just'cause I know how hard it is because it's, it's a vulnerable, it's a vulnerable, and I, it's a vulnerable feeling.
8:41
Louis: And I was saying yesterday that.
8:45
Louis: When I, when I was experiencing like my first, like when I was first going through my mental health journey, back when I was about 19, 20, I remember saying that like my only emotions I had really was either happy or I was angry.
8:58
Louis: There was no in-between.
8:59
Louis: I didn't allow my body to feel upset because.
9:02
Louis: There are so many times, I mean, I'm 24, but the, I can't imagine the amount of times that people who are older than me have heard the phrases like, man up or just get on with it and like, you know, come on.
9:12
Louis: Like, you know, like back in my day.
9:14
Louis: Like, like, do you know what I mean?
9:15
Louis: Like, those things are so timed that they can have such a, such a detrimental impact on people.
9:19
Louis: 'cause it, because it kind of dismisses your, how you feel.
9:22
Louis: Um, and I was say saying yes, like you have to allow yourself to feel every emotion.
9:25
Louis: 'cause every emotion is healthy.
9:27
Louis: Um.
9:28
Louis: You're allowed to be upset'cause that is an emotion.
9:31
Louis: And I think it really opened their eyes, but it also reminded me of how far I've come with my own mental path, because I used to be quite an angry person and I think it was just a pent up.
9:41
Louis: I'd had so much on my shoulders that I just needed to get out.
9:44
Louis: I didn't feel like I had that safe space to do it.
9:46
Louis: So, um, yeah.
9:48
Peta: So I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about how you got from where you were in that position where you weren't comfortable feeling a whole range of emotions to a place where you can stand up in front of.
10:01
Peta: Kids at school and and like talk to them in that way.
10:05
Louis: That, that, because that's the thing about, like, again, like even yesterday, like I, I realized at one point I didn't even realize there was 60 kids that were in the class.
10:13
Louis: And I was be like, whoa, this is actually pretty mad.
10:15
Louis: Like I, and, and I, it's just like you, you, you forget about how many people are in these rooms, but it just, the conversation just just flow.
10:22
Louis: And I'm, in my head I'm thinking like I've come a long way.
10:24
Louis: 'cause there was a time before where I used to Patrick by public speaking, um.
10:29
Louis: I think the thing that like is like from my journey with mental health, like I didn't feel as though I could talk about it, so I never did.
10:37
Louis: So, and when my, when I reached out to my friends back in January, 2021, I know that they wanted to help me, but they didn't know how to help me.
10:48
Louis: And I knew I needed help, but I didn't know how to ask for it.
10:50
Louis: So I kind of wanted to like.
10:52
Louis: Create that place where, okay, I don't want my friends to feel as though they can't come to me, and I wouldn't wish this feeling like anyone.
10:58
Louis: So how do we create this space where people feel comfortable to talk about it?
11:02
Louis: So that's where like the kind of the idea of being like a positive role model came in into play.
11:07
Louis: So I, I wanted to be like, that reminder for people that like, talking about this isn't, isn't a weak thing to do.
11:12
Louis: I'm gonna show you why, because I do it.
11:14
Louis: And that kind of thing.
11:15
Louis: That like, I wanna help and inspire people to see that, to seek help, just to seek help from people or, or.
11:22
Louis: That first step in the, in the right direction.
11:24
Louis: And I think it, it took, I, I was saying this earlier, like the, the difference from the, from when I first started this idea of like, okay, I'm going to have to at one point go into schools and go into workplaces.
11:37
Louis: 'cause that is what the brand is about, which is so uncomfortable where it started off really small.
11:42
Louis: So like, it was like, I used to do live streams.
11:45
Louis: I still do it, I still do live streams a lot.
11:47
Louis: But I, um, when I first started the live streams.
11:50
Louis: It was in September, 2023.
11:52
Louis: So I started off very, very small with the live streams.
11:56
Louis: And then I would build them up as time went on.
11:58
Louis: So I would get on and I would be a bit more confident every time I'd go on there.
12:03
Louis: A bit.
12:03
Louis: A bit.
12:04
Louis: Used to the camera.
12:05
Louis: A bit more, used to the camera every time.
12:06
Louis: And then what I actually found was became more, it became easier to do public speaking in small satins.
12:15
Louis: 'cause the way I saw it was I've spoken in front of 150 people.
12:19
Louis: On a screen, what is different than them being secure right now?
12:22
Louis: Because they, they, they can still judge me even on a screen.
12:26
Louis: They can judge, like, you know, like, I can, I, I can either give them that power or I can, I can try and provide as much value as possible to, to some people.
12:33
Louis: And I always think that like, if one person benefits from what I'm saying, then, then the day has been a success.
12:39
Louis: And, um, I think what, like, I've, I think how it's hard because I, I think to get from a stage where I feel I couldn't talk.
12:48
Louis: So now where I'm like comfortable like giving talks in workplaces and schools, I think it's just come down to like very small steps of talking about my journey to the point where I feel comfortable.
12:59
Louis: And I think it's like that, like it's that positive, like the positive domino effect I call it.
13:03
Louis: It's like I talk about it so someone resonates with it.
13:07
Louis: So it helps them see that they're not alone.
13:09
Louis: And I see that I'm not alone through them responding to it.
13:12
Louis: And that's really helped me to see like, oh, do you know what, like we're doing a good thing here, let's keep doing more of it, and more of it.
13:17
Louis: And all of a sudden, like it's this massive wave where like I don't feel ashamed to talk about it anymore because I know that it's gonna have an effect, a positive effect on people.
13:26
Louis: Um, and I think like having that thought of like, okay, even if one person benefit, we've won, like today, today's been a good day.
13:33
Louis: Um, it's kind of eliminated the fear.
13:35
Louis: It's kind of eliminated the fear for me.
13:36
Louis: And I, and I think I've done a lot of public speaking over the past year or so.
13:40
Louis: Um.
13:41
Louis: And Yeah, it's come, I mean, I mean I, I first started doing public speaking in September last year, so it's not even been that long.
13:48
Louis: But like the growth is, yeah, the growth is sort of, is like, I feel a lot more, I guess if someone was to say to me, do you wanna go and do a talk tomorrow in front of 200 people?
13:57
Louis: I do.
13:58
Louis: I would be, that would be petrifying.
14:00
Louis: But I would still, I'd still do it because I'd just be like, yeah, why not?
14:03
Louis: 'cause the next,'cause the next number could be 500 people.
14:04
Louis: Like, do you know what I mean?
14:05
Louis: Like, it's just that Yeah, it's slowly getting easier and easier and easier.
14:09
Louis: And I've also, like, I've realized that like before when I first started talking, like I used to be very fast and I used to be very nervous, but now I'm very composed and like the talking is just becoming more, I'm listening to my body, I'm allowing myself, I'm allowing my mind to pause whilst I'm talking, to have a bit more of an effect rather than just going through the flies and whizzing through it, and it just doesn't have an effect.
14:30
Louis: Um, so yeah.
14:32
Peta: Yeah, that makes sense.
14:33
Peta: It's like a muscle, I guess, like,
14:35
Louis: Yes it is.
14:35
Louis: Yeah, a hundred percent.
14:37
Peta: It's really interesting what you said earlier about how, um, you hadn't wanted to talk to your friends, um, but one of the things that pushed you was you didn't want them to think that they couldn't come to you, which is a really interesting thing that I've heard from.
14:56
Peta: So I spent, before I moved into marketing, I was a youth worker for like 15 years.
15:00
Peta: So I've, I've talked to a lot of young people.
15:02
Peta: Um, one-to-one and in groups and come on stages about mental health and, and that kind of thing.
15:09
Peta: And I've heard this again and again, this idea that like, we would have, we would've no problem with our friends coming to us with these problems, with, with like, with these issues for help, but heaven forbid that we should go to them.
15:24
Peta: And like there's, there's that like dichotomy and Ill paradox I guess, in our heads because actually our friends are thinking the same things.
15:31
Peta: Like, they're like, well, of course I would want to think that Louis could come to me or that Peter could come to me.
15:36
Louis: Yeah, I know.
15:37
Louis: I know exactly what you mean and that, and that is why I, that's why I constantly, through the talks that I do and give, I constantly say to people like, you have to treat yourself like your own best friend.
15:47
Louis: 'cause like, would, would you be friends with someone who spoke to, they spoke to you the way that you are speaking to yourself right now?
15:53
Louis: And I kind of.
15:54
Louis: When I say that, I think a lot of people do, they do take a step back and they go, okay, that's actually a really good point.
15:59
Louis: Maybe I don't speak myself as nice as I should.
16:02
Louis: Or maybe I'm a bit self, I'm, maybe I'm a bit too self principle.
16:05
Louis: Um, because I, I often think that we are our own worst enemy, and I think we often feel as though we are alone with something.
16:10
Louis: But in actual fact, we're not.
16:12
Louis: We're all, we are all still just figuring it out.
16:15
Louis: Um, and yeah, that's what I, that's what I realized.
16:18
Louis: Like the, I didn't want my friends to feel alone with how they feel, but I know for a fact that if my friends.
16:24
Louis: Knew that I was struggling, they wouldn't want me to be alone with it.
16:27
Louis: And I think what I've noticed, like when I've been talking about my journey, is like my friend will reach out to me and they'll say, hi, can I go for a coffee?
16:33
Louis: Like, I had it, I had people send me voice notes and I've met them full of times.
16:36
Louis: They're like, can I just have a quick call with you?
16:38
Louis: And just like, just like, just to have someone to talk to.
16:40
Louis: Like, not even, not even for advice, just literally just someone to, to be an ear, to just, just listen to and I'm like.
16:46
Louis: That's fine.
16:46
Louis: Of course it is.
16:47
Louis: Like that's, that's why I do what I do.
16:49
Louis: Um, and like I always say to people, like, I'm not like a, a mental health expert.
16:52
Louis: Like obviously like a mental health is a trained, but like, I'm not a mental health expert, but like I.
16:57
Louis: I just like that the whole thing behind what I'm doing is to try and encourage those conversations.
17:00
Louis: So if someone feels comfortable, talk to me, then I'll try my best to make the time and, and, and listen to them.
17:05
Louis: 'cause it's so important, and especially as founders as well, like I know how, how stressful it can be and how lonely and isolating it can be as a business owner.
17:12
Louis: Um, and the amount of people that I speak to on a daily basis and who are like, this is really hard.
17:17
Louis: Like, and it can be so.
17:20
Louis: It can, if you're not careful, it can be very detrimental to you as well.
17:23
Louis: So it's very important to surround example people that, that can try and lift you up and, and, and help you see the, the light as well, you know?
17:33
Peta: Okay, so this question has been around my head since we first initially talked.
17:38
Louis: Yeah.
17:39
Peta: Um.
17:39
Peta: So this was, this was something that you wanted to do in the world, something that you wanted to make better.
17:43
Peta: This idea that we need to kind of, yeah, we need to take time for ourselves.
17:47
Peta: We need to look after ourselves.
17:48
Peta: We need to be there for each other.
17:52
Peta: Why a product-based brand?
17:56
Louis: I love that.
17:56
Louis: I know everyone asks me that.
17:58
Louis: I, I want
17:59
Peta: I would think of a more original question.
18:00
Louis: no, no, no, no, no.
18:01
Louis: It's, it's, oh.
18:02
Louis: 'cause I get it a lot.
18:03
Louis: Um.
18:04
Louis: A lot of people say to me, like, why skincare?
18:05
Louis: Like, what's the whole thing with skincare?
18:07
Louis: Why, why have you correlate these together?
18:09
Louis: So for me, I've always loved my, my skincare routine.
18:12
Louis: I've always done skincare.
18:13
Louis: I, I think since I was started 16, I dabbled in that a few skincare brands.
18:17
Louis: When I was 16, um, I, um, I used to use oil in my hair.
18:23
Louis: I used to use like a hair oil.
18:24
Louis: Um, and back then I used to put my hair down on my, on my forehead.
18:28
Louis: So the oil used to seep into my skin and, and all of sudden I'd get.
18:31
Louis: Quite bad spots on my hit, on my, on my forehead.
18:34
Louis: Then I started, put my hair up a little bit.
18:36
Louis: The spots were still there, like the marks were still there.
18:39
Louis: So I used to get a little bit self conscious of that when I was younger.
18:42
Louis: Um, so for me, the, the correlation with skincare is, is for me, when I, during COVID in particular, it was time for me that no one could take away, like life, life is a hundred miles an hour.
18:56
Louis: If COVID taught me anything, it's like the importance of slowing down like that.
18:59
Louis: Like when you look at the whole world as a whole, like the, the, the difference the world had when it just slowed down for a couple of months and just like stopped doing, like, it, just, like, it was unbelievable.
19:10
Louis: And for me, my, my mind was so rattled and burnt out during, during times where I was doing nothing, but allowing myself time to pause through my selfcare everything and actually pouring back into me was really important.
19:23
Louis: It made me realize the importance of self-care as a whole, not just skincare, but like going out for a walk and exercising and running and reading and, and putting time back into me.
19:32
Louis: So for me, it was that thing of like, well, I feel, I feel better in myself because I, I, I look better in myself.
19:38
Louis: I don't look as tired.
19:39
Louis: I feel my skin feels cleaner.
19:41
Louis: It feels smoother.
19:43
Louis: I look better.
19:43
Louis: I feel more confident when I look good.
19:45
Louis: I feel good.
19:46
Louis: And I'm starting to love myself more, and I'm realizing the importance of, of how important a routine is for my day.
19:52
Louis: I think it's an integral part of my day.
19:54
Louis: And also like I, I love the feeling that I, I, it's that thing that I look forward to because it's that difference between, because I, because also especially with me, when I, I work entirely from home, everything.
20:06
Louis: So if I, if I'm not careful, I can move my laptop from my, from my.
20:13
Louis: Table to my sofa and carry on working if I really want to.
20:17
Louis: And like it, where's, where's the line?
20:19
Louis: So for me, the selfcare is the line, south care is like right to stop.
20:23
Louis: This is my time now.
20:23
Louis: And that, and that for me, like that element of allowing people to pause and like that people to take five.
20:29
Louis: And I think a lot of people do say that, but there's a map that a lot of people ask me that question, sorry.
20:33
Louis: There's a massive correlation between how we look.
20:36
Louis: And how we feel.
20:36
Louis: So if we're feeling more confident in our skin enough, uh, we, we tend to feel more confident in ourselves.
20:41
Louis: And I think it's actually that, it's the routine aspect as well that a lot of people tend to miss in day-to-day life.
20:46
Louis: That they, they're just going with the flow and all of a sudden they're burnt out.
20:50
Louis: So like, it's just that one thing.
20:52
Louis: And think, I think for me, like take five is so much more than just skincare.
20:54
Louis: It is actually just allowing yourself that time to.
20:58
Louis: Like just allowing yourself pause in whatever way as well.
21:00
Louis: Like I know obviously the product is called Take five, but whatever take five look like to you.
21:04
Louis: Like, do you know what I mean?
21:04
Louis: Like that I always ask people like, what, what does take five look like to you?
21:08
Louis: Um, but yeah, that's sort of where, that's sort of why I started.
21:11
Louis: There are a lot of things, like even my mum this morning, um, I went on a walk this morning and my mom was like, have you ever thought about developing an app?
21:18
Louis: And I was like.
21:20
Louis: And she's like, have you ever thought about like developing an app?
21:21
Louis: And I'm doing it?
21:22
Louis: And I was like, actually a really good idea.
21:24
Louis: Like I never really thought about it, but it's a really good idea.
21:26
Louis: It cost a lot of money, but like, that would be a really good step.
21:29
Louis: That would be a really good way into something else itself.
21:32
Louis: Um, so yeah, it's, it's, there's so many different ways that, that you could do it.
21:36
Louis: Um, but I think that way, I think for me, I, I love the way that skincare made me feel and I wanted to give that same feeling to her.
21:45
Louis: I know there's a massive stigma around self care in particular.
21:48
Louis: A lot of men that I speak to, they do say that they feel.
21:51
Louis: Well, I went to my barbers a few months ago and one of the barbers there said they felt quite self-conscious to, to go into a shop and, and, and pick something up because they wasn't sure what would be best for them, so therefore they wouldn't buy anything.
22:02
Louis: And I had a meeting with a, a girl last year who, who was doing a dissertation, and she said to me that, who.
22:07
Louis: Brother will only go to her for advice on Selfcare and not his, not his friends.
22:12
Louis: 'cause he's worried about what they're gonna think of him for asking questions about selfcare.
22:17
Louis: But so again, it's that, it's trying to break that barrier down.
22:19
Louis: Like why is it uncomfortable to talk about selfcare with men?
22:22
Louis: What is their education barrier around Selfcare?
22:24
Louis: Because I think there's.
22:25
Louis: I think a lot of people, a lot of men say to me like, I think that the, the industry is heavily female orientated.
22:31
Louis: And I, I understand, I understand that as well.
22:33
Louis: Like, you know, a lot of the education is centered towards women, so it's trying to break the barrier of that trying and like, and, and like answer those questions and how people, like, how people see that.
22:41
Louis: Like there's no silly question in, in that kind of thing.
22:43
Louis: I think a lot of people feel as though it's, it's a, it's, it's a silly question so I won't ask it, but like there is no silly question, like, just if you don't know you dunno.
22:50
Louis: That's fine.
22:50
Louis: I dunno.
22:51
Louis: Everything.
22:52
Louis: That's what we're here to do.
22:53
Louis: So yeah, that's, that's sort of why really, that's sort of, that's a long wind, long wind answer
22:57
Peta: No, I love it.
22:58
Peta: It's great.
22:58
Peta: It's really interesting.
23:00
Louis: thank you.
23:01
Peta: Um, so this idea of, like you said, this idea of kind of, um, it not being seen as the done thing for kind of for men to look into skincare to be educated about it.
23:13
Peta: The industry is really, really feminized, definitely like really focused on women.
23:18
Peta: Um, mainly I would imagine because that's who, those are the people who have spent the money in the market for kind of decades.
23:26
Peta: So that's
23:27
Louis: Yeah.
23:27
Louis: Yeah.
23:28
Peta: try and attract.
23:30
Peta: Um, have you come up against like this recent rise in like hyper-masculinity and, um, like, I don't wanna say his name on the podcast, but
23:42
Louis: I know.
23:43
Louis: I, I know.
23:43
Louis: Yeah.
23:45
Peta: and, and all that kind of thing.
23:45
Peta: This idea that there is, that there is one way to be.
23:51
Peta: A, a successful kind of proper, I'm using inverted comm on a podcast so nobody can see'cause it's not visual, it's not very helpful.
23:58
Peta: Um, proper man.
24:00
Peta: Um, have you come up across any, like, any pushback against that?
24:05
Louis: Um.
24:07
Louis: Sometimes, I mean, I mean, not all the time.
24:11
Louis: Like, like I know exactly what you're on about and, and like I, I see it a lot.
24:15
Louis: Like even yesterday when I was in, I was in a school, um, one of the teachers was saying to me like, some of the, some of the students will say things it, it like, and, and then, and it's like, why?
24:24
Louis: Like, and, but the thing is, it's important for the schools to learn about these things'cause they don't,'cause some of these teachers, they don't know what these, these terms mean.
24:32
Louis: So they need to be aware of them to try and nip them in the bud.
24:34
Louis: Um.
24:36
Louis: I do see it a lot.
24:37
Louis: I, I, I, I, I think it's, I think to be honest with you, I see more, um, I see more people talk about, you know, more people will message me and say, oh, thank you for that.
24:44
Louis: I really needed that piece of advice, or I really needed that.
24:47
Louis: And that's really comforting for me because I know that I'm giving the right, the right advice to people, which is nuts.
24:51
Louis: And I'm doing it basically my own experience anyway.
24:53
Louis: Like, I'm not, not saying things that like, oh, I wouldn't do it.
24:56
Louis: I'm just, I'm just genuinely giving my own opinion or my own advice from my own experience of something.
25:00
Louis: And, um.
25:02
Louis: I very rarely get a pushback from someone saying like, oh, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not cool to talk or, you know, like, oh, you're, you're just weak for, for talking.
25:12
Louis: I very rarely get that.
25:14
Louis: If I do get it, and I was saying this earlier, the way I approach it is I actually, I, I almost really worry about that person then, because I'm thinking of where is your head right now?
25:26
Louis: Because again, that's that really, really that worrying thing of like, where's your head right now?
25:32
Louis: Are you okay?
25:33
Louis: Because I think it, it can be so like, impactful, like it can be so negatively impactful about like, like, and what I've noticed is like, there's such a hustle culture as well.
25:44
Louis: And like nothing else matters.
25:46
Louis: Like, this is me, I'm a, I'm an alpha male and like I was saying this, we have to try and we have to educate about this, we have to educate about it.
25:54
Louis: 'cause it can be really, really detrimental.
25:57
Louis: And, um, I have experienced it a few times and a few, a few people have, have, have asked me about it and people have said like, you know what, like, what are your thoughts on it?
26:05
Louis: And like, to honest you though, when I, when I see comments about it, my first instinct is like, I, I, I, I just replied to say like, I hope you're okay.
26:12
Louis: I, I said, I really hope you're okay.
26:14
Louis: But I very really, I really, I very, really get it myself.
26:18
Louis: But I do see it because I know it's there.
26:19
Louis: I know, I know.
26:20
Louis: I can see people comment about it.
26:22
Louis: Um.
26:24
Louis: I think that's, that's why I do it.
26:26
Louis: Like, so this, this is why I do what I do, because I wanna be that positive role model that can help you see that like opening up and exper expressing your emotions and, and having your emotions is completely healthy and normal.
26:38
Louis: So like when I first started fit, I knew I wanted to be a skincare brand that was more than that, but.
26:45
Louis: I never thought, and I, and I knew I would go into like public speaking and I knew, I knew I would do these things, but I, I didn't think that, oh, maybe I could be this role model.
26:52
Louis: Maybe I could be this person that could really try and advocate for some serious change.
26:57
Louis: And I feel like that's where I'm going.
26:58
Louis: I feel that's the, and a lot of people are saying to me like, yeah, I don't know you as the skincare guy really.
27:02
Louis: I know you, I know you've got an amazing product, but like, I know that your brand does good, but I know that you do good.
27:07
Louis: So they support both.
27:09
Louis: Um, and that's kind of like what I'm, that's kind of like, why?
27:12
Louis: I sort of started to build a personal brand and trying to help people help us just normalize the conversations around it and like be like, oh yeah, if, if a 24-year-old ad can talk about them as health, then maybe so can I, and I think like it's just trying to, like, just trying to show how normal it is or how, how normal it should be for us to talk about it is, it is how we feel at the end of the day.
27:36
Louis: And, and we shouldn't be made to feel as though, oh, we can't talk about that because that's not what they do.
27:40
Louis: Like we should do it this way.
27:44
Louis: It can be very damaging and it's very easily, and I say this yesterday as well, would like the, the dopamine rush that we get from scrolling and doom scrolling and we see things that we don't wanna see, or we see things that maybe really, really, really negatively impactful.
27:59
Louis: Like we see things, we start comparing ourselves, we start questioning what we are doing.
28:04
Louis: You know, as people, we start questioning everything and all of a sudden your head is full.
28:09
Louis: So many different things, and it's really hard to think clearly then when your head is, you know, and, and I, I said before, like I shown the, the student yesterday, a picture of me from like two months ago, and it's like a picture of me.
28:21
Louis: You can see the, you can see the bags into my eyes, like I'm exhausted.
28:23
Louis: I'm like, five hours sleep, no exercise, no night even, right?
28:27
Louis: But constant scrolling in my phone, like I'm, I'm constantly scrolling on my phone trying to find things to do for my business, but I'm scrolling so excitedly.
28:36
Louis: Like, my mind is just like, I'm, my, my dopamine receptors are zapped.
28:40
Louis: Like, I've got nothing left in me, so I can't be creative, so I can't do anything.
28:44
Louis: And I was saying yesterday, like, I was like, I was like, limiting your screen time is so effective.
28:47
Louis: Like, and I know how easy it is when you are a youngster to, to just scroll on your phone.
28:51
Louis: I said, but like, even like during, during lunchtime, like just limiting your screen time, like spending time out in the sun, spending it with friends like allows you to like.
29:01
Louis: Learn more about who you are and what you want rather.
29:04
Louis: 'cause it is so easily influential.
29:06
Louis: It is.
29:06
Louis: And that, and that's what's so dangerous about it.
29:08
Peta: Yeah.
29:09
Peta: No, that's so true.
29:10
Peta: Interestingly, you've brilliantly segued into what my next question was gonna be.
29:13
Peta: Um.
29:13
Louis: Yeah.
29:15
Peta: You are like, so I, um, I've been following on LinkedIn for a while and different platforms.
29:20
Peta: So, um, your, a large part of the Cliff Men brand is, is you, it's like it, a large part of, it's a personal brand.
29:28
Peta: Um, and you've just mentioned kind of like the, sometimes the stresses and the struggles that, that can, can be.
29:34
Peta: Um, how do you, how do you find that, like the fact that such a large part of.
29:42
Peta: The messaging for your brand is around you personally and not just around you.
29:49
Peta: 'cause like there are a lot of of founders that that kind of have personal brands, but around something that is so vulnerable.
29:57
Louis: Yeah, I, I, at, at the beginning I thought it was, it was very hard.
30:02
Louis: So when I, when I first started Clear Men, I think you might have seen a post that I put before, but like I, on the first, the first year that I started Clear Men, I had 20 orders.
30:12
Louis: Which was very, is like Don wrong.
30:14
Louis: So grateful for them.
30:15
Louis: But like, he was obviously very discouraging because I thought I was gonna get 2000.
30:17
Louis: I, I thought, oh, this'll be, this'll be so like, I, I'm gonna be able to do this and it'll be so easy.
30:22
Louis: Not, not easy.
30:23
Louis: Well, yeah, I thought I was so naive, but this be, this, be this.
30:25
Louis: Be fine.
30:26
Louis: I was so naive and like, it, it humbled me instantly and made me think, no, this is gonna take a lot longer.
30:32
Louis: Like my ego straight to one side.
30:34
Louis: It was gone how like, humility came in and I was like, I need to, I need to really like figure out what I'm gonna do here and how I'm gonna grow this.
30:41
Louis: Um, and I knew that the uncomfortable thing was gonna have to be me.
30:45
Louis: Like it was gonna have to be my personal story because it's the reason why I started it.
30:48
Louis: So like, and I, and I was saying like, for me.
30:52
Louis: I, I want people to think of like, this is the story that he's done and this is why he's created a skincare brand rather than, this is a skincare brand, but they don't need to mental health charities.
31:01
Louis: Like, I want'em to really feel the story behind it.
31:04
Louis: So it was very hard to begin with because I just didn't know whether it was something I wanted to do.
31:10
Louis: Like I didn't know whether I wanted to be, I didn't even know that building a personal brand was actually a thing.
31:14
Louis: Like I thought, like I just thought like, oh, there's a few people that I know that are relatively famous from like building a brand.
31:20
Louis: I thought that was through, through the back of them.
31:21
Louis: Like I just thought, I was just like, I don't even know.
31:24
Louis: Um, like Steven Barla for instance.
31:25
Louis: Do you know what I mean?
31:25
Louis: Like Yeah.
31:26
Louis: And, and, but now, now I'm following, um, creators on, on social media that have a little bits like, you know, I see it a little bit, but some of'em got better, quarter a million followers and their personal tiktoks and they just grow in their brand through that.
31:39
Louis: And I'm like, why am I not doing the same thing?
31:41
Louis: Why am I not growing my personal brand?
31:43
Louis: Because I can tell my story.
31:46
Louis: Try and resonate with so many people and, and help people to see that they're not alone.
31:49
Louis: Tell people why I do what I do and the impact that we're having as a brand.
31:53
Louis: And I think like that has helped me massively.
31:56
Louis: Like I think, like I was really worried initially like, I dunno what's gonna happen.
32:00
Louis: I dunno whether this is gonna work, but grew up because I think it was a vulnerable thing and like.
32:05
Louis: I went through a phase when I first started that I actually blocked a few of my friends because I didn't want to see the content that I was posting.
32:12
Louis: That was really hard to do as well because I didn't wanna do that.
32:14
Louis: But I was so nervous about what people were gonna think of me that I just thought, I, I need to block you.
32:18
Louis: I'm really sorry.
32:20
Louis: Um, and that was really hard to do.
32:21
Louis: Um, and.
32:23
Louis: I think build, like building the personal brand and actually getting my story at the center of it was the most uncomfortable part.
32:30
Louis: But it's now becoming very, I don't, I don't wanna say very easy because it's still not easy, but it's becoming more like, this is the, this is the brand, this is who I am.
32:39
Louis: So, yeah, it's a lot more manageable now and I'm, and it's almost, it's, it's a part of my everyday, like my part of my everyday life is posted on LinkedIn and social media, like about my mental health journey and I know it's helping people.
32:49
Louis: So.
32:51
Louis: Very difficult to begin with.
32:52
Louis: The first few years were not easy at all, but it, uh, it got a lot easier as, as, as, as time has gone on and I, and to this day now, I, I find it a lot easier to just be transparent about it because I think not only does it make it from a bit from business owner to business owner, it makes it a bit more people can resonate with how long it takes and, and, you know, it's not like, oh, you know, it's not like a zero to a hundred K in three months kind of thing.
33:15
Louis: Like, it's a very gradual thing.
33:16
Louis: It takes time.
33:18
Peta: Wouldn't that be lovely?
33:19
Louis: I know like grow, like growing a business and like, and like it still being in your home, not being in a warehouse yet and actually enjoying that process.
33:28
Louis: Um, which is what I'm, I'm currently at the stage of doing and I'm learning to enjoy the journey a lot more.
33:33
Louis: Um, I would like to show that stage for the founders.
33:36
Louis: Then I also like to be across a role model and, and share my own experience for everyone.
33:40
Louis: And that's what's really, that's what's really helped me.
33:43
Louis: That's what really, so it is, it's been a very scary jump, but like.
33:48
Louis: Ultimately, it's been a thing that's completely pivoted my business from moving in one direction to be in just a skincare brand to, oh, I am now, the USP people are, people are, people are following me for me, and they love the skincare.
34:01
Louis: So they'll, they'll, they'll support the brand, but they follow me'cause of what I do.
34:05
Louis: And that's what I, I like about it so much as like, I don't wanna just be known as a skincare and I wanna, I want people to really be immersed in what we're doing.
34:14
Louis: So, yeah.
34:15
Louis: Yeah,
34:15
Peta: And do you see that?
34:17
Peta: Like do you see that staying as the brand grows or,
34:21
Louis: The, the personal
34:23
Peta: Yeah.
34:23
Peta: Yeah,
34:24
Louis: Yeah, I think so.
34:25
Louis: I, I, I think, um, it's not, not in an arrogant way.
34:31
Louis: I, and, and, and I, I'm very, like, very, like, humble with everything.
34:35
Louis: But like, and I, but like, I want to see, I see myself becoming a person of influence in a, in a, in a variety of ways.
34:45
Louis: Um.
34:45
Louis: And I think the personal brands will help me get there.
34:49
Louis: So yeah, I, I, I, I think they'll definitely stay because, because I think at the end of the day, like the founder led story really connects people to the business and.
34:59
Louis: I've had people that literally say to me like, I don't really like skincare, but like, I'll support you anyway.
35:04
Louis: And they'll purchase a bottle and then all of a sudden they're like, I love this product.
35:07
Louis: I'll never switch again.
35:08
Louis: And I'm like, well, this is wicked.
35:10
Louis: Like, so, so yeah, you get like lifetime customers then.
35:13
Louis: 'cause they, they didn't even, they just look the story and they think'cause they can see the impact that we're having in a positive way.
35:19
Louis: I think it's helping people to, I think it's helping people to.
35:23
Louis: See that it's more than skincare.
35:24
Louis: I think the founder led content.
35:26
Louis: I actually, if anything, I actually wish I started sooner, so I started posting on LinkedIn.
35:30
Louis: And started taking it seriously this this year.
35:33
Louis: So the beginning of Ja, uh, of 2025 was when I, I said to myself again, post five times a day.
35:37
Louis: Five times a week, but was a week on LinkedIn
35:40
Peta: Five times a day, my head will explain.
35:42
Louis: again, I know five times a five times a week on LinkedIn.
35:46
Louis: Um, and then posting like pretty much every day on TikTok and Instagram.
35:51
Louis: YouTube as well, which is a big driver of some things as well at times.
35:54
Louis: Um, but also just like, I'm trying to think of other, other things as well that have happened, but like.
36:00
Louis: But those that by posting every day, um,'cause the amount of opportunities that I get from them are unbelievable.
36:07
Louis: And I think the founder led stories.
36:08
Louis: They, they like, I mean, like I've had things like when I posted on on LinkedIn a few months ago, had a post go viral and then the next day I was like BBCO reaching out.
36:17
Louis: I'm like, hi, do you wanna come, do you wanna come to the, the studio tomorrow?
36:19
Louis: Like that, that kind of thing.
36:20
Louis: And it's kind of like that wouldn't happen if I didn't post about, sorry, from a founder perspective.
36:25
Louis: So I'm thinking I need, need to double down on this.
36:27
Louis: That's kind of like my, my main strategy is actually to, to focus more on the, on the, on the USP being me, because I know there's such a massive competition around skincare.
36:36
Louis: But what makes me different in my opinion is, is me, I, I know I've got a good product.
36:41
Louis: I know I have a good product, but I know it's, I know it's me ultimately that, that brings people through.
36:47
Louis: Um, and I'm seeing that a lot with other brands as well.
36:50
Louis: Like a lot of brands that are, are focusing a lot of their time on.
36:53
Louis: Actually going through the day to days of where it's like running a business.
36:55
Louis: Like not every day is just gonna be like, oh, you know, it's not all glamorous.
37:00
Louis: It's not like a lot of the time it is sat at a desk 12 hours a day, you're exhausted and you're tired.
37:04
Louis: But also I wanna show like, the importance of looking after ourselves as founders and as people like going to a, going for a run or going to the gym or walking every day and drinking enough water.
37:14
Louis: Like these things that we, we genuinely forget from time to time to do is like, we're so busy and like.
37:21
Louis: Try to show the realities of it.
37:22
Louis: And I think that like humanizes the brand.
37:24
Louis: One, I wanna be less faceless and more like, oh, this brand, I know this brand'cause of him.
37:30
Louis: And I think like that's one that's sort of like the direction I'm going down.
37:33
Louis: I think that's like actually been a good key, key part of my marketing strategy is actually growing my own personal brand to benefit my business.
37:40
Peta: Yeah.
37:40
Peta: Using that to build customer loyalty and, and kind of that emotional connection is really effective.
37:46
Peta: Okay.
37:46
Peta: So what is next for the brand and for you?
37:50
Peta: What exciting things are happening?
37:53
Louis: So I've got, um, course that's a good question.
37:57
Louis: I, so, at the moment, I am currently working on a collaboration with Simon Squibb.
38:01
Louis: So we got that in September.
38:04
Louis: So it's gonna be a walk and talk.
38:05
Louis: So the, the tickets are gonna be five pound and two pound 50 of that ticket will go to fund the dream.
38:10
Louis: Which is obviously what Simon does.
38:12
Louis: And then two by 50 will go to, will be donated to mind.
38:15
Louis: So it's kind of like a mission to like bring people together to do a walk and talk, get conversations flowing, help people to see that they're not alone.
38:21
Louis: Um, and yeah, just like a nice little collaboration to do, I suppose.
38:25
Louis: 'cause again, it raises brand awareness for me.
38:27
Louis: It allows me to tell my story and millions of people potentially.
38:30
Louis: Um, so we got a, that which is, um, sort of working on behind the scenes, which is really exciting.
38:35
Louis: Um, there are a few things I'm sort of waiting on, like, uh, few like competitions and stuff.
38:40
Louis: Um, I've got a market stall in Stratford in August, which is meant to be like, like the footfall must be like 40,000 people for the two days.
38:48
Louis: So I'm kind of thinking like, yeah, maybe I need to, like, maybe I need to double down.
38:51
Louis: I need to think a lot about this.
38:53
Louis: So, got that.
38:55
Louis: And then I'm also, I'm hoping in December, I'm really hoping that I can actually bring out, uh, maybe I'm hoping that in December I can sign the new product development to hopefully be.
39:06
Louis: Ready for launch in July, August time next year.
39:10
Louis: That is the plan because I, I, it's, it's definitely possible to, to grow a brand with one product, but I wanna diversify and bring out new products because I actually think that that could gen, that could be, I know I, I, you know, again, I, I know how good the cleanse is, but the hero product could be the, could be a moisturizer, like, you know, that could be, that could be the thing that takes my plan to the next level.
39:28
Louis: So yeah, that's, that's where I'm at the moment.
39:30
Louis: I think.
39:30
Louis: Uh,
39:31
Peta: That's really exciting.
39:32
Louis: yeah.
39:33
Louis: Thank you.
39:33
Peta: That's pretty cool.
39:34
Peta: Okay, so for people who want to find a brilliant cleanser or who want to hear more about your story, um, where do they go?
39:41
Peta: What can they do?
39:43
Louis: So you can either go to my website, which is Clear for Men Got Good uk, or my Instagram and TikTok and YouTube, which is just clear for men.
39:51
Louis: Or my personals, which is just Lou Louis Watkins.
39:54
Louis: Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
39:57
Peta: I will pop all of those things in the show notes.
40:00
Peta: Um, yeah, it keeps us posted about the dates for, um, for the walk and talk'cause that sounds really, really cool.
40:06
Louis: Yeah.
40:06
Louis: Amazing.
40:07
Louis: Yeah.
40:07
Louis: Thank you.
40:08
Peta: Um, and if anybody is in Stratford or the area, then they should come find it.
40:11
Louis: Yes.
40:12
Louis: Yeah, definitely.
40:13
Peta: Cool.
40:14
Peta: This was so, so, so good.
40:16
Peta: Thank you very much, Lou, for taking the time for sharing about your story and all the wonderful things you're doing.
40:22
Peta: Um, and yeah, I can vouch that the, that the cleanser is amazing, so you should all go and buy it.
40:27
Louis: Yes.
40:29
Louis: Thank you so much.
40:29
Louis: Thank you for having me.