Latest / Found in Interpretation Podcast / Ep. 44 - Conference & Diplomatic Interpreting: Careers, Mentors, Market Trends

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Ep. 44 - Conference & Diplomatic Interpreting: Careers, Mentors, Market Trends · Found in Interpretation Podcast

0:00
Hello, hello and welcome to another episode I found in
0:03
interpretation podcast. Once again, I'm one of your Co
0:06
host and I'm here Brian. Brian, how you doing?
0:09
I'm doing great, buddy, and we're here with Tatiana as well.
0:12
Hi, Tatiana. Hi guys, Wonderful to be here.
0:15
All right, really happy to greet you here.
0:17
Let's kick it. Alright, here.
0:30
We're here with Tatiana Kaplun. She's a conference interpreter.
0:35
She's a business, a diplomatic interpreter with more than a
0:40
decade of experience in the field.
0:42
She is also committed a committed conference interpreter
0:46
and trainer at the University of Strasbourg.
0:51
She's currently based in Strasbourg and she is right now,
0:54
right at this moment, if I'm not mistaken, she holds a degree in
1:00
translation studies, a masters in interpreting and translating,
1:04
and a PhD in language sciences from the University of
1:08
Strasbourg. Did I miss anything?
1:12
I like what I do. And she enjoys it.
1:18
Well, welcome, Tatiana. And yeah, so maybe we should get
1:23
started with how you got into interpretation.
1:27
Huh. Well, there is a long version
1:32
and a short version, and I don't know which one you'd like.
1:35
Well, I like the podcast. Let's do, let's do the long
1:38
version then if we need to edit something out then we can just,
1:41
you know, sharing parts. I'm just joking.
1:46
The long version would be that I always enjoyed languages
1:50
literature, had the immense privilege of growing up between
1:53
two countries, and I was just fascinated by the world of
1:58
languages communication. And when I had to pick a degree,
2:02
I went for translation and interpreting.
2:04
But at the time I wasn't even aware of conference
2:07
interpreting. I didn't know that was a
2:09
possibility, didn't know there was a thing, and I only
2:13
discovered that a little bit later on.
2:16
And I don't know, it's a bunch of mistakes, chances,
2:22
possibilities that led to this. At one point I realized that I
2:26
really wanted to go into conference interpreting.
2:28
I really wanted to learn how to do simultaneous, not just
2:31
consecutive. And I actually recently I was
2:35
clearing out some paperwork and I found lists like stacks of
2:41
paper, whereas analyzing different interpreting programs
2:43
where I would like to go. I had completely forgotten I was
2:45
that organized at the time, but it was really like, it was a
2:49
really interesting to go back to that.
2:50
And I applied to do my masters in Bath.
2:54
And while I was waiting for them to either accept or reject my
2:58
application, I told everybody who'd listened that my Plan A
3:01
was to go to study conference interpreting in Bath and my Plan
3:06
B would be to go backpacking across Mexico, Argentina, and
3:09
Brazil. And I got into Bath and
3:14
backpacking across Central and South America is still on my To
3:16
Do List. But I don't know, it's something
3:20
like that. It's a profession that I
3:23
gradually fell into, but now looking back it, it seems like
3:28
all of my choices were extremely logical.
3:30
But they seemed logical right now.
3:32
Like the internships they did, they don't both experiences, the
3:36
universities, the exchange programs.
3:39
It felt like the right thing to do back then, but only now do I
3:43
realize that it was actually the best thing for me to do.
3:46
So I don't know if that is a podcast version of this story.
3:49
It's usually a mass even in my mind.
3:51
Yeah, well, we tend to connect the dots once we look back, when
3:56
we when we're we're looking forward, we don't always know
3:59
where we're heading, but then one thing leads to the next.
4:03
And then when we look back, we think, Oh, well, it was kind of
4:06
the logical thing to do and. Story in my life.
4:11
And what's your by the way, just to just to point something out
4:14
here, what's your language combination?
4:16
So I'm Russian A, English B, French C and I work between
4:22
Russian and English, and I also work from French into Russian
4:26
and into English. And where do you work?
4:27
Like everywhere in Europe or? Well, my home base is
4:31
Strasbourg, so most of my clients are actually located in
4:35
Strasburg. I'm very lucky that way, but I
4:37
also get to travel for work quite a bit.
4:39
There was a lull during COVID. I actually fell in love with
4:43
Strasburg again. This covered the beauty of the
4:45
city I lived in because before COVID, I would be away more than
4:50
I was in Strasbourg. And now travel is picking up as
4:54
well. So it's France, Germany,
4:56
Switzerland, bit of Italy, occasionally, you know, bit here
5:00
and there, but mostly European destinations.
5:06
Your North American counterpart version, because I used to
5:09
travel all throughout North America before COVID, and then I
5:13
discovered how beautiful Canada is again.
5:16
So yeah. Kevin was a very interesting
5:19
experience. Yeah.
5:21
I mean, it was a painful experience as well.
5:23
And I think it was a very sad and tragic experience on the
5:29
whole. But it was very interesting to
5:32
reevaluate the professional situation where we're at, you
5:36
know, personally, professionally, but a lot of
5:38
things in perspective. And did you find that like,
5:41
well, but if I look at the diplomatic interpretation, like
5:45
interpreting the diplomatic settings, I'm thinking maybe
5:49
like cocktail parties or like also like in camera sessions,
5:55
like that kind of thing. So do you have to combine
5:58
consecutive interpretation and simultaneous interpretation
6:00
depending on the setting? Yeah, it's actually an
6:03
interesting mix because if there is a bigger event happening,
6:07
then actually quite a few events can be put into the, let's say,
6:10
under the diplomatic interpreting heading.
6:13
But then what people usually imagine when they talk about
6:16
diplomatic interpreting, like the bilateral meetings, like you
6:20
say in camera meetings, then that's mostly consecutive or
6:23
sushi trash unless it's a slightly bigger meeting with
6:26
more participants and then they might envisage getting a booth
6:28
somewhere or some other way of ensuring simultaneous.
6:32
But in my experience, mostly it's been consecutive and
6:35
shortage OK, which which is nice because it keeps you on your
6:40
toes. Hmm.
6:43
Well, there is something to it where it's just you and your
6:45
brain and you cannot rely on your laptop, you cannot rely on
6:48
your colleague. You cannot like, look something
6:50
up really quickly, check your notes.
6:52
You just, you know, there and that's you and what you have
6:55
written down and what do you have in your mind?
6:57
Do you think that's why at least here in our market, many
7:01
interpreters do not want to do any consecutive whatsoever.
7:05
They, they say, well, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a simultaneous
7:08
interpreter and I don't do consecutive.
7:11
Do you think that's why? I wouldn't, I wouldn't dream of
7:16
being able to, you know, assume to answer for everybody.
7:19
But maybe it's marketing with the fact that you're there, you
7:24
know, actually there there is no glass wall separating you.
7:28
That's it somehow feels less safe.
7:31
I don't know, In the past I loved doing consecutive and I
7:34
wasn't really a big fan of simultaneous.
7:36
Then I got into SIM and I fell in love with that and for a few
7:39
years I was really worried about doing consecutive.
7:42
Now I enjoy both, but I can appreciate the safety of being
7:47
in the booth. It's a, it's a remarkable
7:50
feeling. You're there, you're safe.
7:52
Nobody can, you know, well, technically they could come in
7:55
and barge and, you know, make your life harder for you.
7:58
But there's your colleagues there.
8:00
So, you know, it's really it's, you're not alone.
8:04
That's what I'm trying to get it.
8:05
And you're, you're relying more on breath mints than your
8:08
colleagues, I guess if you're doing.
8:13
Well, coffee too. Always.
8:15
And coffee. Yes, lots of coffee.
8:18
What does that mean? Like your schedule is super
8:20
sporadic, like you're all over the place, like at all times or
8:23
like are things scheduled in advance?
8:25
Because usually with conference interpretation, you know of an
8:28
event and like, you know, you're, you know what the hours
8:30
are the agenda. Is this more like ad hoc I
8:34
guess? Lately, even conference
8:38
interpreting has been a bit ad hoc, mean.
8:40
Maybe it's because of the languages that I work with.
8:44
There are things that are scheduled way in advance, like,
8:47
you know, they've always been, but there are sometimes meetings
8:49
that will happen whenever there is an urgent need to discuss a
8:52
topic or something happens in the world and they need your
8:55
languages. So I've been seeing more of that
8:57
over the past several years. But otherwise, you have the
9:02
agenda, you have the speakers, you ideally have your colleagues
9:06
as well because you know, you know they there's a counterpart
9:09
on the other side. Or sometimes if it's a bigger
9:11
event, there might be more than just one interpreter for each
9:14
side and usually he gets some information, speaking points, or
9:19
I don't have indications though where to go looking for
9:22
background information. And then you get there and
9:24
everything changes. So again, it's just like
9:26
conference interpreting. There you go.
9:30
So, and you, you do some training for interpreters as
9:36
well, right? I do and I did, and this is a
9:41
bit of a, um, complicated story because I am used to train
9:47
essentially at the University of Strasbourg and our programs
9:51
hardly close to well a year and a half ago.
9:54
OHS. So it's been a little bit of an
9:58
adjustment because it's something that I really enjoyed
10:02
teaching interpreting at a university.
10:04
I teach at several other like private initiatives, but it's
10:08
not quite the same feeling and the setup is not the same.
10:11
So it was, it's, it's been sad seeing that our program was not
10:16
the only one hit by the changing times.
10:19
And, but yes, it's something I enjoy doing.
10:22
And it was really wonderful, you know, seeing interpreters come
10:25
in, not really sure whether they were in the right place,
10:28
learning how to do the job and then growing and blossoming into
10:33
those wonderful colleagues. And I now work with some of my
10:37
former students and it's, it's wonderful.
10:39
That must be amazing to be able to to, you know, be the mentor
10:42
or the teacher and then like work side by side with them
10:46
after. It is.
10:48
And I mean, I still get to work with my mentors and that's one
10:51
of the most rewarding experiences in my in my life.
10:55
These are people that have helped train me become, helped
10:59
me become the person, the interpreter that I am today.
11:01
And when I get to still learn from them, it's it's incredible.
11:06
Now, does that mean that if there's no interpretation
11:09
program in Strasbourg, is there, are there, are there other
11:12
options? Well, France has two more
11:15
interpreting schools still running.
11:17
And I mean, a few universities in France have programs that
11:21
train, let's say liaison contract consecutive or court
11:25
interpreters. But if we are specifically
11:28
talking conference interpreting, then in the past that that used
11:32
to be Strasbourg and the 2 Paris based schools.
11:35
Is it and is it? And now it's just them.
11:38
We also have schools in Switzerland and Belgium.
11:41
So if you have, you know, French as a working language and you're
11:44
based in Europe, you still can study.
11:47
But from what I've been hearing, all of my colleagues have been
11:51
mentioning that it's harder and harder to, you know, maintain
11:55
that line, keep languages, keep the budgets, explain that
12:00
having, you know, a set number of students that you must
12:04
recruit for each year is not a really good idea in this
12:07
profession. Because if you recruit someone,
12:10
you need to be sure that once they graduate, they will be able
12:14
to work in the field. It's just, you know, it's not a
12:18
decent thing to do. But now I think I have.
12:20
I've been getting a feeling that it's a, let's say, a recurring
12:24
issue. Yeah, yeah, cause I mean,
12:26
there's obvious, obviously it's all over the news the the
12:29
closure of the yeah, the University of Monterey
12:32
Interpretation and Translation masters program.
12:34
That's it's really hard because I have no idea why, but I always
12:39
thought that, well, that's the one that's gonna stay.
12:42
You know, others might fall, but that's the one that is
12:47
definitely going to stay. Maybe because alongside, you
12:50
know, the schools in Paris and Geneva, it's one of the oldest,
12:55
one of the most well known programs.
12:58
And so many interpreters, so many interpreted trainers have
13:01
trained there. It just felt like, you know,
13:04
it's gonna be forever. So that one hit really hard.
13:08
Because they said there was a financial thing, but I mean
13:10
they've been, there hasn't been a money making enterprise.
13:14
It's the inception. So I don't understand it either.
13:16
That's the. Problem with Apple grows.
13:19
I mean I know prestige thing right?
13:21
Like it's and think tank I guess for language.
13:27
Yeah, I've been also following news about Glendon, so I know
13:30
it's not easy either. It's just.
13:33
Yeah, it's, it seems to be some sort of a trend that the number
13:40
of schools is going down, although I don't know how it is
13:44
in Europe, but here in Canada we hear more often than not that
13:50
there is either a shortage of interpreters and some certain
13:54
areas or there's send our lot more people coming from
14:00
different cultures. There are a lot of more needs in
14:02
terms of accessibility. And I find it kind of
14:09
contradictory to see that training is going down, but in
14:15
many areas demand is going up. I don't know if it's because of
14:19
the fear of technological changes or budgetary constraints
14:25
or you name it. What you, what you're saying is
14:30
the same that we've been saying on this side of the Atlantic.
14:33
We see that there is demand. There are international
14:37
institutions that want to recruit more interpreters that
14:40
are struggling to recruit the interpreters and the right
14:42
language combinations on the private market as well.
14:45
It's not always easy to find interpreters, and I don't know
14:50
the same time. I don't think that's I.
14:55
I'd like to think that the risk of technology is not the main
14:59
factor because I don't like to think of technology as a risk
15:01
necessarily, but I don't know if it's attitudes, if it's actual
15:07
budgetary constraints, as you say, I do have some doubts about
15:11
that, but um. Well, it's here in Quebec.
15:16
We are. We were having this year
15:18
starting at 2 new interpreting programs.
15:21
Yeah, conference interpreting, conference want?
15:25
Yeah, yeah, conference interpreting.
15:27
Yeah, both the University of Tularemia.
15:30
OK, Brian, check which episode number is that And Laval
15:34
University? It was a while ago, but we were
15:37
yeah, we were kind of we, we announced it I guess on the, on
15:41
our podcast that everyone could know that they're yeah,
15:44
university has a a program. It's not a full like masters or
15:48
anything. It's.
15:49
A 20? Yeah, it is.
15:51
Is it a masters of Yeah. Research program in Laval
15:55
University. It's called micro pagans.
15:58
It's basically a four courses just to, you know, make sure you
16:03
know, just to for you to learn the ropes and then you're you're
16:08
getting thrown into the market. But you're saying is there is
16:10
hope? We always have hope.
16:16
Well, that, that's the thing. I think that although it's very
16:20
unfortunate what is going on with Glendon, I'm not even sure.
16:24
I mean, I, I don't even know if there's gonna be something
16:28
following the semester that is probably about to begin for a
16:33
year or two students. I hear that they don't they're
16:36
not, they're not enrolling new students for basically next
16:43
year. But on the other hand, five
16:46
year, I think, and also the medical program in Quebec City,
16:50
I was told that there are 20 students enrolled in that
16:53
program. So yeah.
16:57
And then program is basically you need to have a bachelor's
16:59
degree, but it's not a full program like a masters program.
17:03
Hmm. So it's sort of a an in between
17:07
and there's gonna it's I think it's basically just four
17:10
courses. But if you already have a
17:12
bachelor's degree in translation, which is one of the
17:15
prerequisites to enter, I don't think it's fixed.
17:18
I think there's an analysis if you don't have one.
17:21
But most people are basically people who, that have completed
17:25
a, the bachelor's degree translation, then you do that,
17:28
UH-4 course program over a period of two years and there's
17:32
an internship with the, with the translation Bureau.
17:35
At least that's what I last I've heard.
17:37
And this should get the ball rolling.
17:42
And I've a few interpreters. I mean, a few people who are
17:46
actually allowing this course have written me.
17:49
And you know, I could wish them luck, but not only that, they've
17:53
been telling me how their first week has been.
17:56
And so far, you know, there is hope elsewhere as well.
18:02
So if anyone's interested, well. That's, that's why you should
18:05
check that out. That's very good to hear because
18:07
I've been following news from the FT Congress that's just
18:11
completed in Geneva. And I know that a study was
18:14
presented about student motivation for enrolling in
18:18
interpreting and translation programs.
18:19
I'm still waiting to, you know, for the report to be published,
18:23
but I think that would be interesting as well to see
18:26
whether they, whether it's the students dump the potential
18:30
students numbers that are, that can be linked to the trend or
18:33
whether there's, I don't know, anything else getting on.
18:35
It would be interesting to see. And it's I think it's very
18:37
interesting that in the professional people are looking
18:40
into it. So as you say, there is hope and
18:43
maybe with more information there can be more answers.
18:45
There's some big minds out there in the world of interpretation.
18:48
So like. That's true, and he has some of
18:50
them on your podcast. I'm just here for the good time.
18:56
But yeah, no, cause I was talking to Jonathan Downey and
18:59
in Scotland it's kind of the same thing he says in Europe
19:02
than it is in North America where like we're getting some
19:04
bad publicity too from tech companies like, you know,
19:08
Microsoft putting their their top 10 professions that are
19:11
going to be extinct thanks to or because of AI and translators
19:15
and interpreters are just lumped into the number one.
19:18
Have been circulating for years. Oh, yeah.
19:21
But it's it doesn't do it. I guess what I'm saying is it
19:24
doesn't do any people who are wanting to be in this profession
19:28
kind of will want to if the if like Microsoft or big companies
19:32
are telling them that this isn't a job, that's gonna be forever
19:35
job, you know? I.
19:37
Understand. But also.
19:39
No, sorry, Go. Ahead.
19:40
Oh, no, no, no, no. I was just, I was just thinking
19:43
that there's nothing more volatile than tech jobs and
19:48
think about it. That's true.
19:50
And on the other hand, we're here, we're working, we're quiet
19:53
because, you know, we, we don't tend to speak for ourselves
19:57
because we take, we have to speak for.
19:59
Other people if you're doing perfectly.
20:01
Well, that, that's one of the reasons why we decided to do the
20:04
podcast, to give ourselves a voice and a platform.
20:07
And so there's nothing more volatile than a tech job.
20:11
And they're telling us who've been working and there's a
20:14
shortage of interpreters. They're they've been telling us
20:16
that we're going to lose our Trump's.
20:18
I think that's quite contradictory.
20:20
It also might be because they don't, Maybe they, not all of
20:22
them understand how you know how we function, how we work.
20:27
Yeah, it's, it's funny. There's never been a a language
20:30
bubble, but there's definitely been a tech bubble that's
20:32
exploded. You know, but but that's the
20:35
thing. What what's that?
20:37
It's the I think it's called the the Kruger effect, where the
20:42
less you know about something, the more you, you, you, you
20:45
think you're an expert and the more you know about something,
20:47
the less you think you're an expert in something.
20:49
Yep. And to be honest with.
20:52
You. They're all experts, right?
20:53
Yeah, exactly. They're all experts.
20:55
Before I started my masters program, I remember even back in
21:00
2018, I was thinking ohhhhh, AI is going to replace right away.
21:07
And not only when I was doing the masters program did I say to
21:13
myself, oh, the technology is not here and we're in 2025, soon
21:17
2026. And I still share that same
21:21
opinion. Now some people might think that
21:22
I'm putting my hand in the sand, but.
21:25
No, I mean, I think that's a very sensible approach.
21:29
And I mean technology. Don't get me wrong, technology
21:32
has advanced incredibly and I've seen it do some really
21:36
impressive things, including with voice recognition.
21:40
But I don't think we should be talking about technology
21:43
replacing human interpreters because there's just so much
21:46
more to our job than just, you know, taking words and putting
21:51
them into words in another language.
21:53
There is emotion, there is understanding, there's culture,
21:56
there is nuance. There's just being a human being
22:00
working with other human beings to help them communicate.
22:05
Now, since universities transport might be is shutting
22:10
down, is that for? Sure.
22:11
No, no, the universities, No, no, I mean the program, the
22:13
program, the program it's. Evolved.
22:15
Heard it here first. Purdue University shutting down
22:20
anyway. Ohe there was one that went
22:22
under under bankruptcy protection in Ontario.
22:25
So no. Why?
22:26
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, full university.
22:28
For the whole university, yeah. Laurentian University, yeah.
22:31
Right, right, right. I, I completely forgot about
22:34
that. Sorry.
22:35
I'm sorry. No, but the program is showing
22:38
this So So what? What are your um, like how are
22:42
you gonna do teaching, mentoring?
22:43
Are there other avenues that you can?
22:45
Well, Ioffer courses like short term courses with other
22:50
universities and programs and a couple of private initiatives as
22:53
well. And then also when it comes to
22:56
mentoring and organizing, you know, trainings, I do quite a
23:00
lot of things with AIK. And two years ago, it's going to
23:03
be 3 years ago now, we started to mentoring and outreach
23:05
program for our region, which has allowed us to not only pair
23:11
up beginner interpreters with more experienced colleagues to,
23:15
you know, help them find. And that's it, a point of
23:19
contact somebody they can trust, somebody that can be their
23:22
answer their questions, help them during those first years on
23:25
the market because it's not easy starting out on a new market.
23:29
It's definitely not an easy job doing it in Paris or in France.
23:33
And generally because there's a lot of, you know, admin and not
23:36
just that it's a very difficult market to break into, maybe like
23:40
all markets, but. So is that like a a NAIC
23:43
mentorship program? Basically, Yeah, exactly,
23:45
exactly. And we also developed an
23:49
outreach program within that. So we invite colleagues or
23:53
trainers from other professions to carry out information
23:58
sessions for not just, um, I3 candidates for members in our
24:02
region, but we've opened most of our sessions to, you know, all
24:06
interpreters based in France. And for the sessions that we
24:08
conduct in English, then you know the whole entire, and it's
24:13
been a very rewarding experience as well.
24:15
Um, I, you said that you, you said that it's hard to break
24:19
into the market and, and in Paris or in France, perhaps in
24:23
general. I, and that's why I'm asking
24:27
here. I feel that there's a lot more
24:32
need for official certification in Europe differently than it's
24:39
say in Canada, where most interpreters are not certified.
24:45
What do you mean certified? Do you?
24:46
Mean degrees, or I mean give an example.
24:49
I'm in Quebec and there's Atiak, which is a Lord Roddy Enterprise
24:56
Quebec and this and we're barely, I don't know, 30, maybe
25:02
even less, perhaps have around 30 interpreters in a pool of
25:08
about 5000 translators. And most interpreters working in
25:14
our market are not part of UTAK. They just work freely.
25:18
And most clients, I don't even think they care.
25:23
On the other hand, in Ontario, I don't even, I think Brian, it's
25:27
the same thing, right? Yeah, it's pretty similar with
25:29
the ATIO, the Association of Translators and Interpreters of
25:32
Ontario. And there's the federal
25:35
government interpreters too that are certified through the
25:38
federal government to do federal government work.
25:42
But yeah, no, there's not. There's a lot of freelancers who
25:45
are professional interpreters but not certified necessarily.
25:49
It's very different from what's the situation like here in
25:52
France because well, we have AIQ, which you know, we have the
25:58
French region in AIC. There is also several regional,
26:04
like early regional, regional compared to you national
26:06
associations. Like there is the SFT, which is
26:09
associative sponsoring Turban and they also have quite a few
26:14
interpreters among their ranks, a couple of other associations
26:18
as well that are also doing a really good job protecting the
26:21
profession. We have a dedicated association
26:24
for sign language interpreters, but that doesn't really make
26:30
starting out on the market easier or harder.
26:33
What matters is the degree and also the fact that you need to
26:38
know people, you need to break into the market because somebody
26:42
recommends you for an assignment or somebody can vouch for your
26:44
quality. And if you are a beginner
26:46
interpreter who never trained in a French school, than, well, who
26:52
who can vouch for you and when you want that?
26:56
Reassurance. In a way, though, it seems like
26:58
it's a there's a very supportive community and in Europe, because
27:02
I find like in Canada, I don't know if I know very many I
27:06
interpreters. I certified interpreters like I
27:09
think the mentorship program like when I first started
27:12
entering would have been awesome, but I don't think I
27:15
learned to. Have you heard of a Aiken Canada
27:17
doing like some kind of mentorship program for new
27:19
interpreters? No, I haven't heard.
27:22
I know a few interpreters here and there that told me that
27:26
they're in the process of joining AIK.
27:31
But I, I think that you, you have to be, I think that
27:36
somebody has to vouch for you. And there's also a waiting
27:40
period sponsorship. Whereas well, you just need 3
27:45
colleagues to confirm that you are interpreted to become a pre
27:48
candidate. But they have to be.
27:50
But to be a member? Yes, exactly.
27:52
But to become a member, you need to have worked with at least
27:55
three colleagues. Well, depending on your language
27:57
combination, we will choose 346. You know the number can grow
28:01
depending on how many languages you have.
28:03
But since there are very few people here in Canada, then it's
28:07
really hard to find someone, one that you've worked with too,
28:10
that you need to find three of them.
28:12
I don't even know if I know one of them.
28:13
And we've interviewed 40 people in our podcast and we I meet
28:18
people all the time. Well, I think mentoring programs
28:21
exist in three regions so far. There is one in like France, one
28:25
in like Germany and one in like Belgium.
28:27
And those two programs existed way before we created ours and
28:31
they actually helped us set up a program.
28:34
But other regions are looking into it, including yours, so you
28:39
might have more possibilities to.
28:41
Yeah, I find that would be so helpful for a profession and I
28:44
mean. Definitely, I got involved in
28:45
the process because informally I benefited from something, some
28:49
version of a mentoring program, because when I moved to
28:51
Strasbourg, all of my colleagues were extremely welcoming.
28:56
They were just like available to answer questions, including like
28:59
silly questions about setting up your business, getting an
29:02
accountant, like how do things work in France?
29:05
Because every country is so different, every market is
29:07
extremely different. And you know what you say?
29:10
You say We're welcoming and close knit supportive community.
29:14
Well, the bureaucracy is the other end.
29:19
Since when bureaucracy is easy in in any place?
29:23
Well, let's say there are countries where it's a national
29:27
sport. Now, do you find yourself doing
29:32
a lot of more Russian interpretation or do you?
29:39
What should I have for Strickland?
29:42
I used to work a lot in multilingual settings where I
29:46
would be working mainly into Russian from English and French.
29:50
Now it's a lot of bilateral work, like bilingual work,
29:54
Russian to English, vice versa. And I've also started doing more
29:57
French into Russian, French into English.
29:59
So it's a I don't know. You should have asked me that
30:02
ahead of time that I would have written down some numbers.
30:05
How many and? I would have, but I'm not.
30:10
I'm not. I used to be organized and then
30:12
I became a grown up person of the.
30:16
Became an interpreter. I was about to say, thought it
30:21
would sound wrong. By by the way, you must have
30:25
heard because of the your language combination with
30:28
Russian, but there was an interpreter that was suspending
30:34
suspected. I would I think that might be
30:36
the right word of being of spying actually in one of the
30:40
meetings. Is there a harder, let's say,
30:45
background check on certain language combinations or is it
30:49
the same process? Because here I never had a
30:51
background check for my language combination here in Canada.
30:54
So you say, is it different now because the political situation
30:57
with Russia, Russia in general is tricky.
31:00
So is there anything? About happen a few stories
31:04
recently and with several languages actually, and I always
31:09
find it really disconcerting when journalists turned to
31:12
interpreters. It's usually when I don't know
31:16
it feels like it doesn't really feel safe because we're always
31:20
Privy to information and we're treat information
31:23
confidentially. We have this code of ethics.
31:27
We understand that information needs to be treated with
31:30
absolute secrecy and confidentiality, and most of our
31:35
clients understand that and trust us.
31:37
And when stories like that appear, it's undermines the
31:40
entire profession and it's not a very healthy environment.
31:44
Sometimes it's the perception, which is why I think that it's
31:49
very important how we maintain our presence, you know, with our
31:53
clients, with our colleagues, but also on social media and I
31:57
find that. Especially stop writing.
32:00
No, I mean, I used to write things on social media and now
32:03
basically Instagram pictures. That's it.
32:07
It's all good, but you know I. Yeah, I don't post anything
32:14
either on my own. It's just like basically like
32:16
promoting their podcast and. It's A wonderful podcast.
32:20
OHP Thank. You.
32:21
And edging a really good job promoting it.
32:23
I was very happy when he reached out, actually.
32:25
Ohhhhh wow. But somehow.
32:27
I thought that you had a stronger online presence now
32:29
that you're saying you don't post much.
32:30
Goodbye. I mean personal stuff.
32:32
I mean the, the, the the, the. No, I never post anything.
32:36
Yeah, I have a friend who posts all my stuff on LinkedIn for the
32:41
business. So he puts, he finds jokes and
32:44
then just puts jokes out like, but like about language, like
32:47
not about like, you know, anything.
32:49
Like we don't we don't go post that.
32:51
You don't want to get cancer. Coldplay concerts and stuff like
32:54
that, right? We don't want our podcast to be
32:59
cancelled. No, exactly.
33:03
So So what does a your agenda look like coming up?
33:05
Like you, you're probably got a pretty full agenda because it
33:08
was hard enough to find a date where the three of us weren't
33:11
working. So.
33:13
Here's the thing, what you were asking about before, like what's
33:16
the work situation like? It used to be very, very
33:19
predictable. Like in France, everybody knew.
33:23
But you know, October will be your busiest month.
33:25
April as well, maybe May. Nothing will happen between
33:29
January and maybe around end of December, early February and
33:35
then the entire country just goes on vacation, bed,
33:38
restaurant, August. Now it's a lot less predictable.
33:43
Like I've had some work in August as well.
33:45
Um, September is actually much busier than I thought it would
33:49
be. October is traditionally busy
33:52
month, but I'm looking at it quiet and November and I'm
33:54
hoping for a quiet December because even December gets busy.
33:58
It's never a good, it's never a good sign.
34:02
Account. Well, that is, that's a.
34:05
Buy bigger Christmas gifts, but. You know, in France they don't
34:08
have to pay you right away. Here are 30 to 60 days usually.
34:13
Yes, so if if you work in December, you won't get paid in
34:15
time to get your Christmas cards.
34:18
Easter, Easter, Like goodness. Yeah, Easter presents.
34:22
That's a it's their gender is filling up nicely so I really
34:25
can't complain. That's and I stuff is skipping
34:29
with busy as well. So because I had a meeting with
34:32
a bunch of interpreters, like I get together and at the end of
34:36
June with a lot of the interpreters in Montreal and,
34:38
and a lot of them were saying that they've seen a decrease in
34:40
their numbers, like maybe about 10% less or 15 even 20% less.
34:46
But do you find, have you seen like or have your colleagues
34:51
been saying like that? There's a decrease.
34:53
It's definitely, it's definitely not the same as it used to be
35:00
3-4 years ago. But um, I had a very interesting
35:06
experience during COVID because originally all of the work died,
35:10
disappeared, like I think it did for everyone.
35:12
Yeah. And oddly enough, COVID turned
35:15
out to be a very good time for me professionally.
35:19
Never thought it would happen, but it was a very good time.
35:21
And I have a feeling that at least in Europe, it was the same
35:24
for quite a few colleagues because we had several hubs that
35:30
like international institutions, had hubs within them so they
35:33
could carry on working. And then people you know figured
35:37
out how to work from home as well, and then it works.
35:40
Sorry but hubs you mean like people had their own little like
35:43
cubicles so they wouldn't like they would respect all the COVID
35:47
social? Yeah, like the actual booths
35:49
would just have one person to booth, for instance.
35:51
Or in some institutions, they put in flexi glass separations
35:55
so you could have two or three people in the booth, but you
35:58
know, they couldn't like touch each other and had to go out
36:01
when it wasn't that turn to, you know, make sure that.
36:04
There's after can't find each other and stuff.
36:06
Exactly. But no, I don't know.
36:09
I have a feeling that work has been fluctuating for a while and
36:15
I don't think many people have sat down to do the maths to see
36:20
how bad it's actually become. If it's become bad, I know I
36:25
haven't. And I know that two or three
36:27
years ago I felt like work was really on the downturn and my
36:33
contact actually asked me to write down the numbers so that
36:35
we could add them up. And turns out I just had a
36:38
really like two or three really quiet months, but the rest of
36:41
the year was still OK. OK, So I haven't done that
36:44
since. I've just gone with the flow
36:46
thinking if I think it's really bad, next month will be better.
36:49
And I don't think I'm really in a position to complain, but I
36:57
don't know, I think maybe it would be good to sit down and do
36:59
the mods. I know that I, I have 3
37:01
colleagues at the top of my head.
37:03
Yeah, 32 definitely, maybe 3 who've actually done the maths.
37:09
OK. And they know what's happening
37:11
with their work from one year to the other.
37:13
Like they make lists of days in the booth, days remotely, days,
37:18
consecutive days spent translating.
37:21
So they know what's happening with work.
37:23
They must have Excel sheets. I know one person does it with
37:28
Excel, one person does it like old fashioned paper.
37:30
Oht. Wow, OK.
37:32
So again, I'm not that organized, but some of them have
37:36
been sharing results or like their observations either on
37:40
social media or in, you know, get during get togethers where
37:44
everybody starts panicking and they're like, Oh no, it's OK.
37:46
Let me tell you, I did the research and well it seems OK,
37:52
so I'm I'm I'm assuming that if people did the maths I can trust
37:56
them and probably should. Show you in my, in my case,
37:59
since in my case, I for tax purposes, I have to do the
38:04
follow up because it's my company basically that invoices
38:08
to clients. And um, I have to do the like
38:14
every year when I, when I meet my accountant, he says, well,
38:17
last year that was, you know, all the revenue expenses and all
38:21
of that. And because of that, I have to
38:24
do the tracking every month because I have to file reports
38:27
to the government to give back some of the GST and PST that we
38:32
have here. And generally and through that
38:38
process, I've been able to track the ups and downs of how how the
38:45
market has been shifting. See, that probably makes sense.
38:49
In France, you do it every three months, which means that you
38:53
might have a very slow January and a dismal February, but if
38:57
you do a lot of work or if you hire a lot of colleagues in
39:00
March, the numbers that you give to your accountant will actually
39:03
look OK. And again, This is why I have a
39:06
feeling that the overall picture year to year is, you know, it's
39:12
more than OK. It's just that it feels like,
39:18
no, it's not always. It's not.
39:19
It doesn't always feel good, no. But the other reason why it
39:24
might be the wrong person to ask is that ever since I started out
39:29
in this profession, not so much translation liaison
39:32
interpreting, so not so much business interpreting, but ever
39:35
since I studied in conference interpreting, colleagues have
39:39
always told me about, you know, it's so much worse now.
39:43
Like, it used to be so good, now it's so bad.
39:46
And I could actually see colleagues retiring from the
39:49
profession or deciding that, OK, it's really hard to make a
39:53
living doing just interpreting. And yet, you know, I've made it
39:58
work. And I have colleagues who've
39:59
made it work. And I have colleagues who
40:00
continue making it work, and I have students who have made it
40:03
work. So I have a feeling that the
40:06
situation isn't as good as it used to be, but it's still OK
40:12
for quite a few of us to be here.
40:15
It was a very privileged. Approach.
40:16
No, no, no. I mean, I think that.
40:18
There maybe, maybe your professor, the council because.
40:20
Of no, no, no, no, not at all not at all I I, I'd like to I
40:24
mean, I can see you quite a few things that could get me
40:27
cancelled, but I, I see this I see this in three, three ways.
40:32
First of all, there's always some negative people, all right,
40:35
Is there always some people who there the the sky is always
40:38
exactly the exactly. It's always dark outside.
40:43
It's always raining and or glass half full, half empty or, or you
40:48
name it. That's the first one.
40:50
Um, the second thing is I think that some people, whatever the
40:57
topic, they tend to see the past as better than the present for
41:03
fear of the future in many, many ways.
41:07
And the third one is a lot of people are not doing the things
41:16
that they have to be doing either in order to succeed or to
41:21
become better interpreters or, you know, and how I'm trying to,
41:27
I'm trying to find out that a nice way to say like adaptive
41:29
somebody suburban plus, you know, there there's to be, to be
41:34
a successful interpreter. It's more than just being good
41:37
in the microphone. You need to do your marketing,
41:40
you need to do some networking. I, I just, look, I'm taking a
41:45
course right now at university to, just to learn more about
41:50
certain aspects of the profession.
41:53
And I decided to do a university course.
41:57
And I'm doing this through, although I'm doing the podcast,
42:00
although I'm working full time, although I've got family
42:03
responsibilities and the mortgage and all of that.
42:05
But I'm still taking a few hours of my time every week just to go
42:10
back to university to do this one single course that I think
42:13
will help me to be a better interpreter.
42:16
But that's. It, but it's that's.
42:19
But not everyone can do it. Not, not only that, I don't
42:24
think everyone either thinks about doing these things, has
42:29
the energy to do it or is willing to do it.
42:32
It takes a lot of effort and the recipe for success is not a
42:37
straight line. It is unique for everyone.
42:40
And I think that if you do the things that you feel, if you go
42:45
as far as you can and you hit as hard as you can, you'll
42:49
eventually get somewhere. But being overly negative about
42:53
either the number of contracts, profession, AI, the economy,
42:57
recession, Trump, you name it, I don't think it does service to
43:01
anyone. And it's all about mindset.
43:05
And if you have the right man's mindset, if you're smart,
43:07
whatever their situation, you'll succeed.
43:11
But it's it's absolutely right. And the words you say about
43:13
mindsets, you need to have the right mindset.
43:16
You need to be willing to think outside the box.
43:19
You need to be willing to put in the hard work that's hard.
43:22
I don't think that's something that's particular to just our
43:24
profession. I think to succeed in any
43:26
profession, you need that. I think there are very few
43:29
professions where you can just, you know, get a degree or
43:33
complete your training, sit down and, you know, have work come at
43:35
you and succeed and then retire and be very happy with your
43:39
life. I think these days the situation
43:41
is different. For instance, we need to go
43:43
looking for work, we need to market, we need to network.
43:46
And these are not dirty words, but you also need to train and
43:49
to make sure that, for instance, if you go into, you know, a
43:52
specific field, you are there, you are on the level, you have
43:56
the knowledge because these days you, well, maybe the same as
44:00
before as well, I don't know. But you really do need to be
44:03
able to speak the same language as your clients, deliver the
44:06
high quality interpretation that they're paying for.
44:09
And it's, it's a lot of work. It's a, it's a profession where
44:12
if you are a freelancer and probably if you, you are a
44:15
staffer as well, you don't really get many weekends.
44:19
And if, and if you do, you still spend them learning or
44:22
practicing or working on some skill set or the other.
44:26
And what do you say about university course?
44:28
I mean, I did that as well, and I've seen that.
44:32
I've seen how much it has helped me because I did a two, actually
44:35
three legal courses because I noticed an influx of legal
44:39
interpreting work and like legal conference interpreting and I
44:44
was spending a lot of time on meeting preparation.
44:46
And then I thought, OK, so helpful, it's getting me there,
44:50
but it's not enough. There are things that I don't
44:52
understand because countries and have different legal systems and
44:56
I did three different courses from three different countries
44:59
and it was a lot of work and I mean, I'm really glad that I did
45:03
and I. Really.
45:04
I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:05
That's good. That's good, Quebec.
45:10
I mean, now I can say that I enrolled at the Saban to study
45:13
law. I never graduated, but the I did
45:15
it. I didn't do it for the degree.
45:17
I did it for the, for the knowledge, for the vocab, for
45:19
the context. And I'm really happy that I did.
45:22
Plus I got to actually experience it.
45:24
It was a remarkable experience and then cover it happened.
45:27
But um, I. Like says like we had that,
45:31
like, hey, you have adapted really well to the new
45:33
situation, the new, the new world I.
45:36
Guess. I mean, don't get me wrong, the
45:38
market is really tough. And for some languages, it's
45:41
actually gotten tougher. And I've seen colleagues retire
45:45
from this profession and go into other professions.
45:49
And I'm still seeing colleagues who are working on completely
45:53
new skill sets because they don't necessarily think that
45:56
they will have a future in this profession several years from
45:59
now on. But even if you're comfortable,
46:01
you should think like that. No, no.
46:02
If even if you're comfortable, you should think like that.
46:04
True. Even when things are good.
46:06
No. No, you.
46:07
Need to make a plan. Yeah, I don't have one.
46:10
But it's it's, it's more than for me.
46:12
It's more than you're gonna go. Back up plan in South America is
46:14
what you're. Gonna do.
46:16
I'm going to go back because I recently sat down with a couple
46:19
of colleagues and we thought like, what else can we do?
46:21
Let's say no work tomorrow. What else can we do?
46:25
I mean I. Know during COVID I wanted to be
46:28
a mailman. That's really cool.
46:30
That's so much cooler than what? I've said to myself, no, because
46:32
they know we were, we were like, you know, in our stuck in our
46:35
houses and all of that. And I said, well, I'll be able
46:37
to walk outside all day. Yeah, get some exercise.
46:40
Yeah, I like baking, I like gardening, but that's it.
46:43
I don't know. Those are very profitable
46:45
professions, but I'm very happy so far with it.
46:48
There's a, there's a coffee shop a few blocks from my street that
46:51
also sells flowers and plants and, and that kind of thing.
46:54
So it's, you know what you're doing now because you're very
46:59
good at what you do now, so. Thank you.
47:02
And like, even like from all the, the social media and like
47:05
how I found you like to be able to come on our podcast like
47:08
you're, you're doing like an awesome job with like all the
47:11
social media stuff and you're promoting yourself really well,
47:14
like you're. Likely to think of it as
47:17
promoting myself, but especially since since we started the
47:21
mentoring program, it's been more about promoting
47:24
opportunities for other colleagues to do what we've been
47:27
talking about doing. More training, get access to
47:30
more information. Like we've done sessions on
47:32
accounting, on managing your business, on stress management,
47:37
on working for institutions and setting the tests.
47:41
We've done an amazing session on interpreter health and wealth
47:45
well-being and have actually invited health professionals to
47:49
talk to our participants about auditory health, about vocal
47:52
health. So I'd like, I'd like to think
47:56
that I can shift into that because I like the idea of
48:02
having each other's backs of helping.
48:05
And I think especially now when, well, clearly we've been coming
48:09
back to this question all the time, Colleagues feel like, you
48:14
know, the situation in the market isn't quite what it used
48:17
to be, that life is getting harder.
48:20
And she'll now the spirit of community, of teamwork, of, you
48:24
know, being there for each other is more important than before.
48:28
Absolutely. That's it's good to be a part of
48:31
something like that. Well, thank you very much for
48:35
being part of this podcast. Yeah.
48:36
Well, thank you both. It's been a pleasure.
48:39
So on that note, everyone I've forgot to mention at the very
48:42
beginning, but don't forget to like, share, subscribe, comment,
48:48
and we'll see each other for another episode of a Found
48:54
Interpretation podcast. Tatiana, Brian.
48:58
Yes, thank you so much, Tatyana, that was.
49:00
Awesome. Thank you very much.
49:01
Thank you.