Latest / Substack Writers Salon / Books That Sell: Standing Out in Crowded Market With Fleur Hull

Transcript

Books That Sell: Standing Out in Crowded Market With Fleur Hull · Substack Writers Salon

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: And we are live.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, everyone, to our Substack Live.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: I am so excited to have with me today Fleur Hall.
• 0:10
  Fleur is a best-selling author with over 25 years of writing
• 0:15
  and marketing experience and
• 0:16
  She has worked with nearly 100 authors to help them market and
• 0:21
  launch their books to success.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Flor, I am so happy to chat with you today.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: I've been following your work on Substack.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: And as a follow author,
• 0:30
  I'm so excited to discuss the ins and outs of books and book
• 0:34
  marketing and all of
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: that with you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for joining me today, Flor.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:40
  It's great to be here and I've been following your work too and
• 0:44
  we have a lot in common.
• 0:45
  We've done some similar things in our careers so it's nice to
• 0:51
  speak with a fellow
• 0:52
  ghostwriter and author and I'm sure we're going to have a fun
• 0:56
  conversation today.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that should be fun.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: All right,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: so Fleur,
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think my first question is,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: how did you get into the world of book marketing?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: What was your journey like?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: What led you to be a book marketer?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: so I have been writing my whole career,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: and I only just worked that out in the last month,
• 1:19
  that every job I've had since I graduated from university has
• 1:22
  involved writing.
• 1:23
  It's just that they didn't have writing in the name of the
• 1:26
  title of the job.
• 1:29
  But I wrote my first book in 2020 during COVID as a result of
• 1:36
  the pandemic.
• 1:39
  My job working in marketing and I got together with a friend of
• 1:44
  mine who'd worked
• 1:46
  with me in Sydney and she'd also lost her job and we decided on
• 1:51
  the whim to start a
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: podcast and
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: called Career COVID.
• 1:56
  So it was designed for people who had lost their jobs due to
• 2:00
  COVID and what to do next.
• 2:03
  And we did a weekly episode throughout 2020 and about halfway
• 2:07
  through the year we
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: decided to turn it into a book.
• 2:12
  And so we wrote the career after COVID book and I worked with a
• 2:18
  book coach and
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: learned a little bit from her about book marketing,
• 2:24
  but self-published and got that book to Amazon bestselling in
• 2:31
  the career category
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: and
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: which was – yeah, felt great for my first book.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started working with other authors because I had the marketing
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: background and I'd learned –
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: what to do to get a book to bestseller and all of the processes,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of self-publishing.
• 3:01
  So I started working on the side through connections,
• 3:06
  personal connections and from LinkedIn and
• 3:10
  um I had in 2021 I went through cancer so I had a bit of a
• 3:14
  break then I'm fine now
• 3:17
  I'm clear of cancer um thank you and uh after that just uh
• 3:24
  continued working
• 3:26
  part-time in marketing and part-time doing my book marketing
• 3:30
  coaching so as uh per
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: your introduction I've worked with
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: nearly 100 authors now and had some great journeys along the way,
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: learned a lot about the process and,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: worked with great people who've had some great results.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: This is great.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: So, OK, I want to talk about book marketing.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Many authors think writing the book is the hardest part.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: And when after you publish the book,
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: you realize that,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: my God,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: marketing is a lot of work,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: especially even if you're traditionally published,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: you still have to do your own marketing.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: So what are your top marketing tips?
• 4:15
  especially for debut authors who are just tipping their toes
• 4:19
  into the jungle.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: So what would you tell them, like your top tips?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I get it.
• 4:28
  It can be a really dirty word for authors who see themselves as
• 4:33
  artists and
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: creators and craftspeople with the written word.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea of having to put a business hat on
• 4:43
  And think about the business side of authorship is really
• 4:46
  challenging for a lot of authors.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: The original name of my substat,
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: which is now called Author Growth,
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: was the marketing first author.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I do like to think of myself as the marketing first author.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: author or the marketing first coach because really the top tip is to turn
• 5:09
  everything on its head and start with the marketing first
• 5:13
  before you write even one
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: word of your book to actually really know
• 5:18
  nail your target reader and understand what they want to get
• 5:24
  out of your book.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think particularly in nonfiction,
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: when you're trying to get across some real content to the reader,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: but even as a fiction author,
• 5:36
  knowing your audience and what it is that they expect from a
• 5:39
  book in your genre is
• 5:41
  is a really critical part and planning that up front is the
• 5:47
  best way to make sure
• 5:50
  that you have some success when you finally launch rather than
• 5:54
  writing the book and
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: then realising when you're about to hit publish,
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: self-publisher,
• 6:03
  or things are rolling along with your traditionally published
• 6:08
  book when you
• 6:09
  suddenly think about it at the last minute and you haven't
• 6:11
  built an audience,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: you haven't built an email list,
• 6:15
  you haven't been with people along through your journey of
• 6:19
  writing the book,
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: you haven't connected with your potential readers throughout the...
• 6:25
  month long or years long journey that's such a great
• 6:29
  opportunity to connect with
• 6:30
  your readers and build an audience for when you launch and so
• 6:36
  yeah my top tip is to
• 6:39
  actually as painful and as gross as it might sound to many
• 6:44
  authors to actually
• 6:46
  write their marketing plan first and then start the process of
• 6:50
  writing their book
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: And where do you think if somebody tells you,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: I have a full-time job,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: I have,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: three kids,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have much time to do,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: much time,
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have like limited time,
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot do many things.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: What is like the number one thing that they should put their energy in?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is it email marketing?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is it social media?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Is it like events, local events?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: What would you tell them?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think Substack is the best place to be for an author.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
• 7:31
  Building an audience and building an email list because you own
• 7:35
  your list.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think obviously there's certain genres,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: particularly in fiction,
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: romance,
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: obviously the romantic genre,
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: which gets a lot of hype on TikTok.
• 7:50
  There's definitely some genres where you want to be investing
• 7:55
  in social media.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: For nonfiction authors,
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think Substack is the place to be and potentially LinkedIn,
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: investing energy there.
• 8:06
  But building your email list is so critical because they're the
• 8:13
  people that follow your journey.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're the audience that you own.
• 8:18
  And you can promote your book to your email list and they have
• 8:23
  a direct connection
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: because they've opted in to hear from you.
• 8:26
  So I'm very bullish on Substack in that regard and all of the
• 8:34
  authors that I work
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: with to get on Substack and start building an audience.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's also a great way to test your writing and
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: to excerpts,
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: to show the craft of writing,
• 8:48
  to bring the audience along with you as you write your book and
• 8:53
  show the ways that
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: you're going about your author journey.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think people really want to feel that they're connected with people
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: the author of a book they're going to purchase,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: and back through obviously long-form posts,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: which are a great way to hone your craft,
• 9:14
  but your short-form notes that show a picture of you at your
• 9:22
  writing desk.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:25
  or cover reveals or any part of the journey as you go along
• 9:32
  through writing,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: going through your editing process.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: People love to feel engaged with the process of,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: being an author and becoming an author.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: since you're,
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: very,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: quote-unquote,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: bullish on Substack,
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: how do you think authors can grow on Substack?
• 9:56
  And maybe the authors' tips might be a bit different than,
• 10:00
  like,
• 10:01
  the generic growth on Substack.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, how would...
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: who with very few,
• 10:10
  they're all with a very small audience list and they want to
• 10:14
  use Substack for the
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: first time,
• 10:16
  it can be a bit intimidating because they can go on notes and
• 10:19
  they see all these
• 10:20
  people talking to each other and then they post their notes and
• 10:23
  then they get
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: crickets and they get lost in the shuffle.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: So what would you tell them?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: What is kind of the blueprint for success on Substack?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, well, I'm still on my journey as well.
• 10:35
  I've helped a few authors build their audiences into the
• 10:39
  thousands on Substack,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: but my audience is small.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I should have got on Substack earlier than I did.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was late to the party given how I feel about Substack now.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: I regret not getting on it earlier.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Look,
• 10:59
  it is a slog and I think it's easy to get disheartened when
• 11:06
  there's no engagement
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: with what you're writing.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think all of the generic advice, unfortunately...
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: does apply to authors as well.
• 11:19
  The other thing that I think is really important for authors to
• 11:23
  do is to find other
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: authors on Substack and communicate with them.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So whether that's
• 11:33
  going into the comments pages of substacks that are designed to
• 11:41
  or have as their
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: audience authors,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: so like yours,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: like mine.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: people who are on Substack as authors,
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: going into the comments,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: liking people's comments,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: engaging,
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: reaching out to people,
• 12:00
  encouraging other authors as they're going through their
• 12:04
  authoring journey and
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: building connections that way.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think there's very few of us on Substack who launch
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: unless we're someone famous,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: obviously,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: for the average Joe launching on Substack,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: it is a slow grind and you might get some,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: peaks in your growth and then a flattening off and then another.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Something else, you know, takes off and then you go up a bit again.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a slow process and that's why I tell people to start early.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: that book,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:50
  to actually start their Substack when they've got their first
• 12:53
  idea to write a book.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's, yeah, I mean, these are really good comments.
• 13:02
  One thing I might add to it,
• 13:04
  which is what we're doing now,
• 13:06
  which is going live,
• 13:07
  actually.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I realized,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: I know this is your first Substack live,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: but for me,
• 13:14
  going live was kind of like a natural progression from my
• 13:17
  podcast because I kind of
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: do this at least two or three times a week.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, you know what?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: I might as well just go live on Substack as well.
• 13:27
  But what I realized with going Substack is people love seeing
• 13:33
  you on video.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: And the minute I go live, I get more subscribers.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I just posted a note about James Patterson, the author.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen his book all the time.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: I saw that.
• 13:50
  and i read a few of him and i was like okay maybe he's just not
• 13:53
  for me and then i
• 13:55
  started seeing him on Substack on live Substack and it was like i
• 13:59
  kind of fell in
• 14:00
  love with the author it was like wow he's so funny he's like
• 14:03
  smart he's like and
• 14:05
  now it made me want to actually give his books one more chance
• 14:09
  so i it was kind of
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: an aha moment or a eureka moment i was like
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: I fell in love with the author because I saw him live.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if it was only the written text, I was like, yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: But so like, I think authors, they really, really have to be on video.
• 14:27
  I know many authors are introverts,
• 14:29
  but because this is how you kind of move their emotions.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: How do you feel about that?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're spot on with that.
• 14:39
  And I think I would take it a step further and say any
• 14:43
  opportunity to connect with
• 14:45
  your audience face to face and either virtually or in person is
• 14:51
  a really positive
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: opportunity.
• 14:56
  It's obviously very time consuming to go to book launch after
• 15:01
  book launch.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: something that,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: in person at bookstores,
• 15:09
  I think that's something that perhaps people more of the
• 15:12
  traditionally published
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: route tend to go down that pathway.
• 15:19
  But there's certainly blogging tours that you can do with book
• 15:24
  bloggers where you
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: get invited onto podcasts and
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: and go live and get to talk about your book.
• 15:33
  And that's something that I encourage authors to get engaged
• 15:37
  with as well,
• 15:39
  to reach out to book bloggers and do like a book tour when they
• 15:46
  launch their book
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: to build hype for their book.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you're absolutely right.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Seeing an author live, I think in this day and age of AI,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: seeing a real human talking and showing what they've,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: what's inspired them to write the book,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: what they're interested to hear from readers about.
• 16:12
  I think that's a really human and very powerful way for authors
• 16:19
  to connect.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: 110%.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really happy to be live with you today.
• 16:28
  It's a great chance to do it and I'm really glad I'm getting my
• 16:33
  first one out of
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: the way and this has encouraged me to do it more often.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you're spot on.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as you see someone,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: their face moving and them talking,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: it's a really great way to connect with them and their story.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: So you're a book coach, ghost writer, and an author.
• 16:56
  And do you do all of these full-time or do you have like
• 17:00
  another full-time job?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: How do you manage your time with all of these titles?
• 17:04
  I had part-time jobs working in marketing and I still do some
• 17:09
  marketing consulting
• 17:10
  and strategy because a lot of my career has been in marketing
• 17:15
  and strategy.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm, I guess, what everyone calls a solopreneur.
• 17:24
  I'm kind of multi-passionate and I do the work that interests
• 17:32
  me and that,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: I work with the people who I know I can help the most and
• 17:39
  And occasionally I have people – I just worked with an author
• 17:43
  this week on a book
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: cover design and –
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have to say it wasn't a positive experience.
• 17:54
  She had very clear ideas on the cover being all about her and
• 17:59
  not about what her
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: audience was expecting.
• 18:02
  And I tried to guide her towards what the expectations were for
• 18:09
  her genre.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, yeah, she just wasn't ready to hear anything.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what I had to say on my experience.
• 18:21
  And so,
• 18:24
  yeah,
• 18:25
  I'm selective about people that I work with,
• 18:29
  if I can say the word.
• 18:31
  The book coach that worked with me on my original book,
• 18:36
  she had a no dickheads policy.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've carried that through, if I can say that word.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: The book marketing coach is a big part of my work now.
• 19:00
  So you think the bulk of your work is mostly book coaching or
• 19:05
  ghostwriting?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: Where does your main income stream come from?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: My main income stream comes from book marketing coaching.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And how do you find these clients?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just curious.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to mute myself because my dog is barking.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: But how do you find these clients?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think client acquisition is a big deal.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, absolutely.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have had a few already through Substack.
• 19:42
  I've always got clients through LinkedIn and through my
• 19:46
  personal Facebook page.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: network as well.
• 19:53
  So I just had a call yesterday with a guy who I knew when I
• 19:59
  lived in Japan 25 years
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: ago,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: who's now thinking of writing a book and wants me to help him.
• 20:07
  I'm also,
• 20:08
  it's quite funny,
• 20:10
  I'm divorced and occasionally I go on the dating apps.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And a couple of times I've met up with gentlemen who
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't wanted to be involved with romantically,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: but when they found out what I do for a living,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: they've wanted to engage me to help them write their books.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's an interesting marketing tip.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: Go on the dating apps.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so...
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned you found them through Substack.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: And how is that?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: I've been on Substack for a couple of years.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I got a whole single client from Substack.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: What am I doing wrong?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess it's part of my offer with my actual Substack itself.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: An annual membership,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: which I've got discounted at the moment to $60 US,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: comes with a free 6 to 10-page customised book marketing plan.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's smart.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, okay.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So when you sign up for a year,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: you get the plan delivered within 10 days,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: customized for your genre.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm working with four clients at the moment on their plans.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've just finished one.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got three more that I'm working on at the moment.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's well below my normal rates.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Normally I'm marking $210 US for me to offer.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: it's a special offer,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: as I get established on SubStack and then,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: that rate will increase at some point,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: when I get overwhelmed,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: hopefully.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's great to be working with SubStack authors.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been posting on notes encouraging people to
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: buy books,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: buy Substack authors,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: support Substack because we're all on Substack and we're all trying to
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever our goal is,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: we're able to find an audience and serve an audience in some way,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: whether that's even just as a free,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: not monetising it,
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: just offering free content.
• 22:58
  You know,
• 22:58
  there's people writing poetry and fiction and all sorts of
• 23:02
  things with no intention.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: They just want to get their word out to people.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:09
  But obviously there's a lot of people on Substack wanting to
• 23:11
  monetize as well.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 23:18
  my offer has been crafted in such a way that I start the
• 23:23
  journey of helping an
• 23:25
  author with their book marketing by them committing to an
• 23:29
  annual subscription to my
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Substack.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm curious,
• 23:34
  why did you focus on the book coaching or the book marketing
• 23:39
  coaching part in your
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: offer rather than the ghostwriting?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: Because you technically have two offers, correct?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Which is you ghostwrite and you also do book marketing.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my ghost writing has mainly been within organisational settings.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I have ghost written a handful of books for private clients and
• 24:11
  But most of it has been in the business setting where I'm
• 24:15
  ghostwriting reports and
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: speeches and pieces of work for C-suite executives,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: heads of universities.
• 24:31
  local government like lord mayors of cities that's been the
• 24:36
  basis of my ghost
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: writing career so I'm
• 24:44
  I'm not putting as much effort into finding clients for
• 24:53
  ghostwriting now because
• 24:56
  personally I'm finding that people are very suspicious of
• 25:04
  ghostwriting now with the
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: advent of AI and I can't
• 25:14
  earn enough from my writing for the time that it takes me
• 25:19
  because people say well I
• 25:21
  could have just written that with AI and then they're not
• 25:25
  they're not valuing it as
• 25:26
  they used to that's just been my experience I'm curious to hear
• 25:30
  hear what your
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: experience is
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think maybe that's for the business writing part of ghostwriting.
• 25:40
  But I think for me,
• 25:42
  most of my focus has been either newsletters or memoir,
• 25:49
  memoir ghostwriting.
• 25:50
  And memoir ghostwriting,
• 25:52
  you know,
• 25:52
  it's difficult for AI to write it for you because...
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: the bulk of memoir ghost writing is your interviewing techniques.
• 26:01
  And your interviewing technique is to get the story out and
• 26:04
  then package the story.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: AI can help you with the outline,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: shape it,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: whatever,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: maybe even write a draft,
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: but you have to have a human involved in the whole process.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: You really cannot skip that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I think...
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's actually a good point.
• 26:22
  So maybe with the advent of AI that the only thing that would
• 26:25
  survive is the memoir
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: ghostwriting.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know where it's going to head.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I have got one memoir ghostwriting client that I'm working with.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: She's just taking a break over the northern summer.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working with her.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: She's in the UK.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you're right.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: There are definitely still clients out there and I think you're right.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Memoir is the genre where it's going to have to stay human.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: on the business side,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: as I said,
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: the bulk of the ghostwriting that I've done,
• 27:11
  it's definitely petered out in terms of what people are
• 27:17
  prepared to invest in
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: writing.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to talk a bit about your books.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: How many books did you publish?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've published one under my own name and four under pen names.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why pen names?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Why pen names?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote under pen names because I wanted some anonymity in terms of
• 27:54
  I was trialing different methods of promoting the books and I
• 28:03
  didn't want a book
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: that might flop to be connected to the game.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I did, as it turns out, yeah,
• 28:21
  Two of them,
• 28:22
  two of the other four have been successful and two of them have
• 28:27
  just been not.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not hugely successful, yeah, so not bestsellers.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to test advertising with Amazon,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: test advertising with Facebook,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: test various techniques,
• 28:52
  and I wanted to be able to do that with the ability for it not
• 28:57
  to be linked to my
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: name.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm open about the fact that I've had failures.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, of course.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we all did and we all will continue to fail.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's part of the cycle of life.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so what made your book go to the Amazon bestsellers?
• 29:18
  If there's like one thing that really moved the needle,
• 29:21
  what do you think it is?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, I have...
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Black stuff on my face from black ink.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think with the first book, it was my podcast audience.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:40
  You think that your podcast audience bought your book after you
• 29:44
  published it?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Podcast was mainly,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: it was on,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: it wasn't on Spotify back in those days,
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: but it was on Apple Podcasts and I think on Google Play as well.
• 29:59
  And it was from the stats that I got,
• 30:02
  it was mainly listened to in Australia.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was Australian-focused content in terms of,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: what people could do in the market, in the job market in Australia.
• 30:16
  And so the best seller that I got for that was from Australian
• 30:22
  Purchasers,
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't do any Amazon advertising for the book.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I promoted it to my network.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: between the podcast audience and our networks as authors,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: that's what got it over the line in terms of being a bestseller.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: With other clients that I've worked with,
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked on specific promotions with them with Amazon ads.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're very tricky to get to work,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Amazon ads,
• 31:04
  and you can end up blowing a lot of budget for very little
• 31:07
  result for a negative
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: return on investment.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So they're very tricky to get to work and
• 31:18
  and you really have to have some expertise in order to see the
• 31:23
  benefit of those and
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: which some authors have had.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's other promotional avenues, things like...
• 31:36
  book bub promotions some authors have been able to snare
• 31:42
  they're competitive so not
• 31:44
  it's not just a pay and play you have to be chosen um have had
• 31:50
  book bub promotions
• 31:51
  where an email goes out to you know four million readers
• 31:55
  worldwide or whatever and
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: um
• 31:59
  and their books featured in that email and they get enough
• 32:03
  purchases to send their
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: book to bestseller status.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that certainly worked.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's the summer here, so yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think in terms of moving the needle,
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: your personal and professional network,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: depending upon what you're publishing,
• 32:29
  I don't think most authors can rely on that because very few
• 32:38
  friends and family,
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: they say they support you,
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: but when it comes to others,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: My experience is very few actually buy and it can be,
• 32:50
  it's great to get a purchase and potentially help you towards
• 32:54
  getting bestseller,
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: but it does mess with the algorithms a bit.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: If they're buying your book,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: which is a romanticy and the rest of their book is,
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: their book Buying History with Amazon is great.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Business books.
• 33:11
  It skews the Amazon algorithm in terms of people who bought
• 33:17
  this book also bought these books.
• 33:20
  And it just messes with that algorithm a bit if you're getting
• 33:23
  your friends and
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: family to buy your book for you.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you're better off targeting your true audience for your book.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's romanticity, you target people who buy romanticity.
• 33:40
  So I want to go back and talk a bit about Amazon ads and also
• 33:44
  Facebook ads.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: So let's do a case study here.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I invested a number of times on Amazon ads and Facebook ads.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I got one purchase.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe one.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: What genre?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: My genre is speculative fiction.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a mix of literally fiction and with magical elements.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: So if I want to give you this case study live,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: and you would tell me...
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a journalist by training,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: so I...
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: So...
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: So what do you think I did wrong?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't looked at it.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't had a campaign.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: What are the top mistakes that actually people...
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: The keywords drive it in terms of the Amazon ads,
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: getting those keywords right and monitoring status.
• 34:58
  You've got to spend so much time monitoring to see what's
• 35:02
  working and cutting
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: things off that are not driving sales,
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: straight up trialling other things.
• 35:09
  You've got to do really strong keyword research and have the
• 35:16
  right keywords in your
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: campaign and really good keywords.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: copy if you're doing, yeah, you know, make sure the ad.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: As for Facebook ads, they're changing all the time on Meta and it's –
• 35:42
  It's sort of a month-by-month proposition in terms of what you
• 35:49
  can do on there.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I always start by letting the algorithm find...
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's find my audience for me.
• 36:02
  I go wide rather than narrowing it down too much by saying they
• 36:08
  like this book or this author.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: I actually let...
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 36:15
  I don't specify too closely who I'm targeting and I just budget
• 36:23
  and give it a
• 36:25
  couple of weeks for Facebook's algorithm to see who's clicking
• 36:31
  through to the link
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: and let the algorithm learn on its own who is interested in my book.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: But again, copy and visuals –
• 36:43
  are so important and um and i would say video content of the
• 36:51
  author speaking back
• 36:53
  to your earlier point yeah really powerful really powerful yeah
• 37:00
  yeah that was just
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: well that was an aha moment um
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so you're a book marketing coach.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: You do not help them with like mindset, writing, outline, all of that.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: You just only focus on the marketing.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: I help them on,
• 37:25
  I cross over into some of the book coaching because I believe
• 37:31
  that the outline is
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: part of marketing.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And how you write your introduction is part of your marketing.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And because you're drawing people in,
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: people are getting a preview of your book,
• 37:49
  either flicking through it in a bookstore or going on Amazon
• 37:53
  and seeing the first
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: chapter.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I help people structure their books.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can coach them through the process of writing.
• 38:08
  And that's what I'm really doing with the ghostwriting client
• 38:12
  I'd referred to earlier.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: She wants to write it, but she needs a lot of hand-holding.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it'll sort of be a hybrid, her and me writing it.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having to help her structure it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: She's just got no...
• 38:35
  She's just coming from a place of wanting to write a book but
• 38:40
  having no idea.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, we're all the same when we first do it.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the first time you do it, you learn.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:50
  all the things that there are to learn about it and how to do
• 38:56
  it in the right way.
• 38:57
  Your first edit has you in tears because you're just finding
• 39:04
  out that you've got so
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: much more to learn.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan of developmental editors and
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think a good developmental editor,
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: and I do some developmental editing,
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: a good developmental editor has a marketing hat on.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: My developmental editor for my careers guide had a great marketing head.
• 39:38
  I had a marketing head from my experience but not in the book
• 39:41
  world but she had it
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: from a perspective and I learned a great deal from her.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, book marketing is my ultra-niche and
• 39:56
  But I definitely provide services beyond that and have helped
• 40:02
  with outlining,
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: writing,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: book descriptions,
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: cover design.
• 40:14
  naming books,
• 40:16
  actually,
• 40:17
  and doing a really thorough target market audience.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a visitor.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've told my visitors they're not welcome.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sorry about that.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's too early here.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like 7 a.m.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, these are all like fascinating points, Fleur.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just curious, what are you working on now?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like before we conclude,
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: I want to hear why you're working on besides the coaching business,
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: if you're doing like anything new,
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: like creatively.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: I am working on a course.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to help simplify marketing for authors.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:12
  Make it something that they can learn just enough about to get
• 41:24
  it right from the beginning.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: It just breaks my heart seeing,
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: and I write notes about this,
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: but it's what I call authors launching to crickets.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just people,
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: and you see,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you're on Reddit,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: in the self-publishing subreddit.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: Which one it's called?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's called the Reddit self-publishing?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: Self-publishing, yeah.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: The number of people writing in there saying,
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: so I launched my book last week and I haven't had any sales.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there's just so many.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's just constant.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 42:13
  And it's just hard because they've invested their heart and
• 42:17
  soul in writing this
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: book but have just expected.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: And, again, I've written notes about this in Substack.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's 70,000 books published every week on Amazon, every week.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lot.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you stand out there?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to be marketing.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why I start with the marketing.
• 42:45
  You think about how your perfect reader is going to be drawn to
• 42:51
  your book above the
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: bestsellers,
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: above the famous authors.
• 42:56
  Why are they going to take a shot at a new author that they've
• 42:59
  never heard of?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: What is it about a book that is going to compel them
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: I have an idea for you,
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: actually,
• 43:11
  which is when it comes like the word marketing is such like a
• 43:15
  big elephant that you
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: want to slice.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that I would be,
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: for example,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: interested in investing in or purchasing a course is Amazon ads.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: if it would say,
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 43:30
  how to use Amazon ads to sell your books if you're a
• 43:34
  self-published author.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, niche, niche, niche, niche down.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: And this is something I personally,
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: because I've been reading a lot about marketing,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: but I don't know,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: you're the expert,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: is...
• 43:47
  might get you to the authors who tried everything but they want
• 43:55
  something above the
• 43:57
  kind of like go to the bookstore whatever something even more
• 44:01
  technical and that's
• 44:02
  a very unique skill that will be hard to find on watching
• 44:06
  youtube videos or
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: whatever so just an idea
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 44:10
  Yeah,
• 44:11
  there are quite a few Amazon ads experts on YouTube who are
• 44:16
  selling courses.
• 44:22
  And there's people who've written best-selling Amazon books
• 44:26
  about Amazon ads.
• 44:29
  So there are quite a lot of resources out there,
• 44:33
  but I appreciate that feedback from you.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 44:40
  will investigate further about including more material in my
• 44:45
  substack and in my
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: work that caters to that.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm conscious that there are many people who've come before me
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: and people who've been doing it a lot longer than me.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so that doesn't mean I shouldn't give it a go.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty bold,
• 45:06
  but I want to do some serious competitor research before I
• 45:13
  launch down the path of
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: coming up with an Amazon ads course.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 45:20
  I think if you niche it down to Amazon ads for authors or even
• 45:26
  for business
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: authors,
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: something very niche.
• 45:31
  And plus people go,
• 45:34
  they would sign up to the course because they like you as well.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: You're the magnet as well.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: So even if there are 100 people doing the same thing,
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: seeing you on video,
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: all of that,
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: they're more likely to sign up with you because they heard you talk.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: rather than just a random dude or somebody online, you know what I mean?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's for sure.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great thank you.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Send of all royalties back to you.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's just I like to spread the love.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: I have an idea and I think someone else can execute it better than me.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, go for it.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I cannot do this.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know much about Amazon ads and I always need help.
• 46:27
  um so before we conclude uh because we've been talking for
• 46:31
  almost an hour and i can
• 46:33
  talk for two more uh what would like the last thing you would
• 46:38
  like to say about
• 46:39
  book marketing any last tips um and also how can people find
• 46:43
  you and connect with
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: you
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 46:46
  I think back to what I said originally at the start for people
• 46:49
  who may not have
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: joined till later,
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: you've got to start with the marketing.
• 46:53
  You've got to have your marketing plan done before you start
• 46:58
  writing the book or as
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: you start writing the book and conceiving of the book.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you who have to do a self-promo here,
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: if you want to get a marketing plan for your book,
• 47:09
  sign up for a year on my author growth substack and it's $60 US
• 47:17
  and with that you
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: get
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: included with your annual subscription,
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: a six to ten page customised,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: fully customised with audience analysis and social media,
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: everything in there for you as part of your annual subscription.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm on Substack at Fleur Hull or you can search for Author Growth.
• 47:42
  And I really appreciate the opportunity to go live with you
• 47:47
  tonight and the next
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: time won't be so daunting for me.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate you welcoming me and having me so much, Natasha.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's great following your work.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, same here, Fleur.
• 48:01
  And for anyone who joined us today for this live event,
• 48:05
  thank you for joining us.
• 48:08
  And the recording,
• 48:09
  I will also upload the recording for those who missed the live.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, thanks again.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Fleur, for accepting my invitation and stay in touch.
• 48:19
  And for anyone who's looking for book marketing tips and
• 48:24
  coaching,
• 48:25
  you know where to find Fleur.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you, everyone.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: And until we meet again.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: Bye-bye.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.