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Beyond Prescriptions: What Western Medicine Is Missing with Dr. Jenelle Kim · hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic

• Hol+_Dr.JenelleKim_edit1 === Dr. Jenelle Kim: [00:00:00] These texts that have existed for centuries. They talk about night sweats. Yeah. They talk about insomnia or trouble with sleeping. They talk about mood swings. Yeah. Ancient medicine understands hormones, menopause, perimenopause. In eastern medicine, the kidneys literally are in charge of rule. I actually love these words that they use are essence, are reproductive organs and system. Dr. Taz: I think that these older systems of medicine are so valuable, so powerful. Everything is rooted no more sometimes. And if you can merge them with data and technology, you have magic at your fingertips. Welcome to Whole Plus, the podcast that embraces and tackles the holistic way, bringing it all together, science, research, innovations and technology, and our collective human experience. This is where science and spirit come together. I'm Dr. Taz, your host and a double board certified medical doctor and integrative health expert, a nutritionist and an acupuncturist. I'm also the founder and CEO of whole Plus. A digital and clinical platform where my team and I [00:01:00] practice evidence-based holistic medicine every single day. I know and I hear all the health and wellness noise that's out there. I want this show to be the one to empower you with the knowledge you need to heal. Not just your body, but your relationships, your communities, and our world. Welcome to Whole Plus. A big part of my mission and passion with Whole Plus is to merge different systems of medicine together. That's why I am so excited about my next guest, Dr. Janelle Kim. I brought her on so that we can all learn more about traditional oriental medicine, what it means for us. What is a constitution, what is essence, and how do we apply that in our Western medical model? Dr. Janelle is a ninth generation doctor of traditional Oriental medicine, a practitioner of the Qigong movement and moving meditation, a board director for meditation organization, and a teacher of the eight Ps of living meditation. She is prolifically and internationally cited [00:02:00] wellness expert who has been featured in Forbes Allure Meditation Magazine. Time and Good Morning America. Please join me in welcoming Dr. Janelle to the show, Dr. Janelle. I am thrilled to have you on the show. We have collaborated in the past. I'm a fan for multiple reasons, but probably maybe the biggest one, other than the fact that you're amazing and fabulous is just your rooting in traditional Chinese medicine and traditional oriental medicine. And I know that you come at everything, whether we're talking products, lifestyle, wellness, balance, any of those questions, you're coming at it with that perspective. I want my viewers and listeners to know your background. Can you share with us your lineage and your history and Dr. Jenelle Kim: all of that good stuff? Absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you for having me and for the beautiful introduction, Dr. Taaz. I know we have known each other for quite some time, and that's really special. Yes. In fact, right before we began, yes. We had a moment. We're like, we are completely on the same page. Yes we are. And that's a beautiful thing. Mm-hmm. So yes, very grateful for all that you do and that [00:03:00] we connect in this way. To begin, I am ninth generation in my lineage as a doctor of acupuncture and oriental medicine, Eastern medicine, rooted in Chinese medicine. But my lineage comes from Korea. Mm. Right. And so that's the detail of it, but mm-hmm. I don't Dr. Taz: want you to skim over that. Yes. Because, you know, again, our audience may not realize that. Yes. But traditional western medicine, we go study the books, we take tests, we pass boards. Yes. We get licenses. Right. We operate, right. Yes. In uh, Chinese medicine and Korean medicine Yes. And Korean acupuncture. These things have been handed down. Yes. Generation to. Generation to generation. Talk a little bit about that process of handing down how that looks, how that works, and what is captured in the handing down Right. Versus Dr. Jenelle Kim: the Dr. Taz: studying of a textbook. Dr. Jenelle Kim: I really appreciate that. So what I don't always acknowledge, but now that you put it that way, is we also go to school for a very long time. Mm-hmm. Um, I started. 20, maybe five years ago now is when I went to school. And so you go through [00:04:00] your undergrad, you have your master's program, which is about four some years. Then you go to your doctorate, which is about four some years. Things shift and change. So all of that is very important, but I really appreciate how you are, you know, kind of asking this question to me. Yeah. Because. I absolutely agree that for me, the most important thing is, as I said, my lineage. Right. And how that's been handed down four thousands of years. Yeah. Right. So centuries, I'm ninth generation, but the reality is, you know, it goes back so much further. Yeah. I mean, eastern medicine can be rooted. I, I love saying this no matter what event or what, wherever I am, 10,000 years. Yes. You know, and we say that out loud, but if we stop, which is one of my favorite things, to pause and think through anything that we're thinking or saying in this way 10,000 years ago. Can you imagine that amount of Yes. Like, think Dr. Taz: about how much information we have garnered over the last decade. Yes. You think about 10,000 years worth of patient experiences. Yes. You know, treating, you know, all of these things. I can't imagine. Yes. Like someone needs to get in your brain and absolutely. Pull everything [00:05:00] out. And, and you said it correctly, that is Dr. Jenelle Kim: something that to this day, one of the things that maybe the western modern world is not as versed in and understandably so as it really does have that, that feel, you know, the East Asian kind of almost secretive. Mm-hmm. But it, it is that way. It's been passed down through oral tradition. Mm-hmm. I mean, 10,000 years ago, however many thousands, they did not have books. Right. Right. They didn't write things down this way. No. It truly was passed on. And actually one of my favorite ways that my greatest teacher, my father, who's no longer with us, he said it the best. And I say it all the time, you know it exists because why? 'cause it works. Mm-hmm. Period. End of story. It's effective. Right. And for any good doctor, practitioner or expert. That I believe that's what should be the most important. Totally. It's effective. Dr. Taz: You know, I was shocked recently. Not shocked, but for a long time, you know, I do holistic medicine. I'm traditionally trained md Yes. But I also have studied Chinese medicine, Ayurveda. But the practice is a holistic medicine practice. Yes. And we combine things all the time. Yes. So I've been labeled a quack. Yes. [00:06:00] In the past. Of course. 20 years ago. 20 years ago, I was a quack. And so, so was I. And it's interesting 'cause I, for the first time in 20 years went and looked up the definition of evidence-based. Yes. And within the definition includes clinical. And patient experience. Of course. And that's skimmed over when all the doctors start pointing fingers at each other. Yes. And they're like, well, there's no, you know, double-blinded research control trial on this. Right. So it can't be real. Yes. You know, so I think that these older systems of medicine are so valuable, so powerful, know more sometimes. Mm-hmm. And you know, if you can merge him with data and technology, you have magic at your Yes. At your fingertips. That's, but anyhow, that's perfect way of saying it. So No, please, he hands, he hands down the information to you. Yes. Did you learn from him? Kind of, Dr. Jenelle Kim: yes. I mean, I have other amazing teachers, but, but he was my greatest teacher. Right. You know, and that came, you know, it's funny 'cause oftentimes people will say family lineage. Right. And I actually have to correct them because it's not just family. You know, my father, as you will see in the book that I wrote [00:07:00] however many years ago with Penguin Random House in Watkins, my amazing publishers, I will tell stories and that is part of a. The three pillars of medicine. Mm-hmm. So I do wanna just acknowledge this before I dive in. Yeah. Let's do it. Because what he handed down to me, and so finishing that thought, it was his master, his teacher, as you see in the book, he learned in the mountains of East Asia starting at the age of seven. Mm. So it's like from a movie. And this is my own father. Wow. And so for how many decades of my life, I would never even share this. Yeah. Because how do you share such a thing? Right. But now is the time. Right. And so his teacher was not family. Right. And, and most likely that hi his master's master was not family. But that's our lineage. Mm-hmm. That's why I'm specific to Lineage. Got it. My great. My grandfather was Jimbo Kim, that's JBK Wellness Labs. That's my contract manufacturing lab. Yes. Right. Uhhuh. So family is involved as well. So I just think that's important. Yeah. And another reason, intention, why I love to share that more recently than ever. Is that, you know, we all come from Lineage and how do you [00:08:00] connect in that way? Mm-hmm. That's a whole other conversation. Yes. Very much. That's a beautiful one. Like, I'm going to start a community soon where to teach all these things that I'm gonna touch on in a second, but really it's almost as if I'm inviting you to become, to join my lineage mm-hmm. To be rooted in that. So the Dr. Taz: concept of Lineage is not necessarily just a, a family lineage, but it's the community. Dr. Jenelle Kim: Yes, absolutely. And then there are certain of us, going back to your question Yeah. Um, who are chosen, but we have to make the choice as well. Mm. Right. So when I was little. The three pillars that I will share in just a moment here, here. Can't wait to hear about these three pillars. I'm not really setting this up. I'm waiting. I know. Oh my gosh. Um, but I don't wanna forget to answer you. Yeah, yeah. The three pillars, you know, I was not expected to do this per se, right from the moment I was born. I say now at, in my, at 43, I know I was born to do this. I always did, but it was never pushed on me. And I think that's a really beautiful lesson in parenting, especially, uh, that I teach my boys this way as well. Of course I was surrounded by it. But at the end of the day, if I did not choose, which is the basis of everything, [00:09:00] health, wellness, mental, physical, spiritual, if I did not make a choice, it does not mean that necessarily it would've been handed over to me as part of the lineage. So that is actually how it works. Wow. Um, so the three pillars, because that will lead the entire conversation, are the three s, which is medicine. As I describe. Mm-hmm. It is food is the best medicine. I know. We both very much resonate. Everyone should. It is my lab. It is a beautiful clean skincare, which by the way, when I started there was no such thing as clean beauty or even natural. Mm-hmm. But the skincare we put onto our body, the supplements we take, how we eat that type medicine. Right. The second pillars, movement. So what I teach in particular and what's been handed down to me as well, that's why I wanna answer this way, is Qigong, right? So many people don't know what Qigong is, right? Which I have to say, right? I have always keep my mind open, but I'm constantly shocked. But they know Tai Chi, right? Okay. Why do you think they don't know the difference? Well, it's a very interesting, maybe Tai Chi has just been, I don't know, to be honest, Dr. Taz. 'cause to me they're, and, and the truth is they're hand in hand. But it's like the, you know, this comes from this, [00:10:00] but this doesn't, right? Tai chi is Qigong, right? Q gong is Qi vital energy. Mm-hmm. Gong is the consistent study of cultivating that qi. Mm. And so the way I love to explain it very quickly, no matter where I'm teaching or educating, is that Qigong is truly. The first ever form of breath work. She is breath, right? She is your life. Mm-hmm. Vitality. It is the very first form of any kind of exercise or movement as we know it. If we remember that this started 10,000 some years ago, right? Absolutely. So movement is medicine. So that's why I say the three pillars of medicine. The third pillar is mindset. How we think. Okay. And so we can certainly go into any one of these pillars. Right? Right. But my mission, my duty, I know at this point in time as my life here, is to do my very best to share this, make it relatable, make it effective. Right. To the best of my ability to people who, who do not look at it that way. Dr. Taz: Right. So is that so understand that it exists. Exactly. And so I love that you have these three pillars. It's funny again, [00:11:00] parallels, but I think in triangles. Yes. All the time. Love it. And when we're seeing patients, I'm always like, okay, there are three core things. There are three hits, there are three Yes. Main ideas. You know, I'm always telling people that. And if I don't tell them, I'm thinking it and they're triangles like running around in my head. So I love that movement. Mindset medicine. Yes. Are the three pillars. How does that philosophy equate or negate from the wellness movement that we're seeing today? Dr. Jenelle Kim: Oh, it very much equates I I, the way I have been trained. For lifetimes, probably. Yeah. Uh, not probably. I know this is that it all comes from the same root. Right. It all comes and, and one way I will say it is I have come to now start to share that it's all I'm Daoist. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. So it's all Daoist. The medicine aspect. The movement aspect. The mindset. So how we take care of our body, mind, and spirit. Right. And Daoist is, we might think like, oh, is that, what is that? I don't even wanna say any words to create a stigma. Yeah. It means the universe, the Dao is the universe. Right. You know? So it applies to everyone. That's what I feel is so beautiful and what has [00:12:00] always resonated to me, which is where 20 years ago when people did think, wow, she must be an alien. Right. We're talking about eastern medicine. Totally. Right? Yeah. Even in the beauty industry, Korean beauty people thought I was crazy. It's not a thing, you know, meditation, I came from another planet. Yeah. You know, but at the end of the day, it applies to everyone. Yeah. We are live in this universe. We're all human. 10,000 years ago, there were human beings. Hopefully 10,000 years from now, there will still be human beings. So what does it all come down to? The universe, the Tao and yin and yang. Mm. So that's the foundation of all three M's and three pillars. Right. And so your questions in particular, what did you, Dr. Taz: so what I'm, so when people are saying, you know, they're on a wellness journey, right. Does it equate or the, or they're chasing balance. Mm-hmm. Like how does that, you know, sort of apply to this Daoist theory or mm-hmm. You know, the yin yang theory, those type of things. Dr. Jenelle Kim: Okay. I wanted to make sure I was, and what are Dr. Taz: we Dr. Jenelle Kim: getting right and what are we getting wrong? Yes. Okay. So let's. I'll keep going with what I was saying. I wanted to make sure. So everything, everything, all [00:13:00] three of those pillars, every part of us Okay. Comes from that balance of yin and yang. And when we understand that it applies to literally there's yin and there's yang, and we think of that symbol, right? Oftentimes we'll say it's like a fish. Mm-hmm. So one side is black, but inside that black area is a little white dot. Mm-hmm. Right? And their white area, and inside the white area is a little black dot. And so it can look like a fish. And they represent that things are always changing, but they also represent in that symbol. 'cause it starts as a circle. Right. And so circle that. Circle that they're always changing, but always connected. Mm. Okay. So then let's take that a step further. That yin and yang, right? Yin is feminine, right? Female. Right. Yin is nourishment. Yin is more quiet. Yin is darkness. Like literally dark. Mm-hmm. Yang. Is masculine, Y is loud, yang is movement, yang is hot, yin is cold. Mm. And so when you start to understand that everything in life, I find so much comfort in this. And that's why I even say it in this [00:14:00] way because I wish for people to know. It gives a sense of security as human beings. That no matter what we walk through in life, when we look at our human body and eastern medicine in many of the ancient medicines, it can come down to the same principle in our body. Yin is substance. It's literally our organs. Mm. Yang is Qi. It's the vital energy in some way. You can think of it as if we have blood in our body. Chi in, in many ways like moves the blood. Right? And so we, in modern medicine, so it's like raw materials Dr. Taz: versus hundred Dr. Jenelle Kim: percent building. Dr. Taz: Yes. Can't build without raw materials. They cannot exist. Have exist without each other to have the young Yes. And vice versa. And Dr. Jenelle Kim: they're always changing. And so that's why I'm saying I wish for people to really. Embody this because when you know that, let's step out of how it works in the body for a moment. It's the way that we interact with each other. You know, there's time is to be hard. There's time to be stopped. Life. You can't understand success unless you know failure. Mm. You'll never understand joy and happiness without sadness. Mm. You know, it literally applies to everything from our body to our relationships, our intimate [00:15:00] relationships to our friendships, parenting literally every aspect. That's why all three pillars. Wow. The movement that I teach, which by the way, something I didn't say before, however, thousands of you, for generations, they would prescribe movement. No different than if you came and I prescribed medicine to you, medicine. That way we think herbal supplements, whatever that might be, movement, and in my humble experience and what the ancient teachers taught, it can be one of the most effective and one of the quickest ways to quickly rebalance. Ourself in the way that I'm saying. So the, for example, the techniques that have been passed down, the specific secret techniques. Yep. No different than the formulas and the understanding of certain herbs and how they relate to each other. 'cause that's true oral medicine. So Dr. Taz: interesting. Dr. Jenelle Kim: Right? Yeah. That's what's been passed down. Yeah. So why is that so renowned and or respected is the word I'm looking for. Why have they kept that so sacred? Yeah. Another perfect word. Yeah. Why is it now time to share this with the world? Because we all need it. Even those techniques, when we do them with proper breath, right? We [00:16:00] start to reset our whole body balance, the yin and yang of our body. When you look at hormones, that's how we understand ancient medicine understands hormones, menopause, perimenopause. Men and women both have hormones, right? That all exist, right? But they look at it in terms of the, the yin and yang look at it in terms of the organ systems and how we constantly balance energy in these texts that have existed for centuries. They talk about. Night sweats. Yeah. They talk about insomnia or trouble with sleeping. They talk about mood swings. Yeah. You know, far before anything that has been written in books. And it's just another way of understanding it. So Dr. Taz: how would they have explained perimenopause or menopause? Dr. Jenelle Kim: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Taz: And how would they explain what we're seeing today with the explosion of infertility, PCOS and endometriosis? Dr. Jenelle Kim: Yes. So that's that. Much longer conversation, which we can certainly dive into. Yeah. But going back, I find it actually is very comforting for people to understand this. And also, let me, I have not said it yet, but I'm a proponent of both. I believe that as I started, everything [00:17:00] has to do, we have to look inside of ourselves, educate ourselves to the best of our ability, become aware of ourselves. That's the hardest, but the most important. Mm-hmm. Find teachers, doctors, experts, who can guide us. Right. And so why I say that is that it really comes down to no one can know how you're feeling except for yourself. And how many people really even know at this day and age what they're feeling, what needs to be paid at the core. Mm-hmm. Right? And so when we start to understand that we have that power to empower ourselves, then we understand that. So going to what we, what we were just talking about. So when it comes to yin and yang, that's how we understand hormones, right? And so there's certain times in our life, whether it's our constitution, which means that's how we were born. Some of us by nature have, every one of us has a specific constitution. There's much more detail that's involved in this, right? Right. But by understanding that, even the littlest bit, you can tell, even just being aware, you know, some of us can have. A lot of like hot nature foods, right? Or coffee. Yeah. Literally. I just talked to a journalist about coffee. Yeah. [00:18:00] And how it can be balanced and how it can be heard. Okay. So that's a great example. So by nature, caffeine can, uh, disperses our cheat gives us energy. For some people, it's perfectly fine to have a cup of day. Mm-hmm. A coffee a day. Mm-hmm. And for some people, to be honest, you can have a couple, and it's okay for a constitution, it's a very interesting thing. Right. But for those of us, some of us, we can have that coffee. Um, and it's not necessarily the caffeine aspect, but the nature of that. And it can make our stomach, right. It can be burning it's heat. Right. So that's one example. But by constitution we might run hot. Right. So by the funny thing is anyone who walks in front of me, and it's not some conscious thing. I know we all do this. Yeah. It truly, I mean, I was, I was probably six years old, my father started teaching me how to look at people. People, right? Yeah. And it's not a judgment thing like, oh God, they don't, yeah. No, but it's just by nature. You walk in front of me, your build your, the color of your skin, and I'm just talking like Yeah, your, your vitality, your chi, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um. Your personality, your character, all of that fits into your [00:19:00] constitution. So what's my constitution? You, you on the spot. Spot. You're a pretty balanced Dr. Taaz. I'm Uhhuh. I'm amazed. Yes, absolutely. I'm pretty. You're, I thought it was like very young, you know, so Well we both can be. Right? Very young, right? Like men are from Mars. Women are in Venus. My husband for 20 years has told me when we first met, like, yeah, I think you're from Mars. Yeah. And there's a part of me that is a lot more young and a part of me that is more Same sharpening. Same. Same. Yeah. Yes. But okay. Literally we're saying right now. Yeah. But we know this of ourselves. Yeah. So let me be the first to say, when it comes to my workouts right now, at this point in my life, when I was 20, I, what? We would go to medical school. I would wake up at five in the morning to train for a marathon. Same. Go to school. Go to clinic. Same. Like barely even eat lunch, which by the way is a huge no-no in my life at this point. That is like, there's certain things. Yeah. Go back to school, go back to clinic, go to another college for another class. Like run, go to the gym, I mean. But because we have that energy. Yeah. Going back to what we're saying, yeah. We are by nature, our constitution, we have a lot of energy. Right. [00:20:00] Okay. So at this point in my life, I also know that we're all born with, in eastern medicine, ancient medicine. 'cause other forms of ancient medicine might say it differently, right? But what modern medicine as well. I love the way to understand this though, that we're all born with a certain amount of essence. There's many different cheese, vital energy. So I'm not gonna confuse everyone, Dr. Taz: right? Dr. Jenelle Kim: But this must be the, the, you know, theme of the day. 'cause literally, I talk to a journalist about this today, and I haven't in a while. So we're all born with a certain amount of qi or essence, right? That's it. And it's very, very difficult if at all possible to. To ever supplement that. So that's kind of the understanding that you have this much, and on the day that doesn't exist, you don't exist anymore. Mm. Right. That's oftentimes one kind of extreme way. But it gets to the point across way of understanding this is it's when you see a person who does everything correctly that we see, they eat beautifully. You know, they, they either don't drink or their drinking is very balanced, you know, and everything in moderation. They did I already say like workout. They're [00:21:00] thinking, they're just, everything is, they're on point. What we would on point is exactly what I was gonna say. Yeah. Appreciate that. And then one day they walk outside and go for a run and you know. They're not here anymore. Yeah. You know, and, and they're 30 and you're like, what just happened? On one way? You can, there can be many different things, but Eastern medicine, for the most part would say that's how much essence they were born in this life with. Or you see on the flip side someone who does everything incorrectly. Right. And they're fine. Yes. And they live until like a hundred. You're like, what is happening right now in general, that's not the case. Right. All the things am examples. A l Dallas longevity expert, like that's what I do. Yeah. And believe in that. But to some extent, I like having us understand that because that's not something that modern medicine talks about that way. Talks Dr. Taz: about. Dr. Jenelle Kim: But Dr. Taz: one of the things that, you know, and I, yes, I. Believe in all of these things, as you know. I know, but one of the things that I find in the wellness journey Yes. And in sort of the chase so to speak, is that people don't honor their constitution. This is Exactly. And they don't honor their capacity. Yes. Right. So they hop on the latest trend, they hop [00:22:00] on the latest, like whatever's fed to them on Yes. Whatever algorithm. And they assume it's right for them. Very dangerous actually. Correct. And so this idea of constitution and capacity is in many ways, I think should be the founding principle around which you start to build a heal, you know, a healing journey. Absolutely. That is longevity. Correct. And so we spend a lot of time without trying to confuse people Yes. But helping them understand sort of what that constitution might be. Yes. I think it's the answer. People always look at me, they're like, I don't get it. I don't understand how you're doing this and this and this. It's who I am. Yes. You know what I mean? Does that mean that you are less than because you cannot do these things? No. You are somebody different. Yes. You know, this is who I am. Yes. And I think it's the honoring of your constitution that takes away a lot of the, like I. Noise and negative self-talk. Yeah. And comparison. Yes. And all these different things. And also Dr. Jenelle Kim: furthermore, even within each one of us. Yeah. And that's what I, I will finish that. For example, when I was 20, I was very young. Yeah. So much [00:23:00] energy expended and guess what? I was never tired. I didn't have to sleep. Yeah. Same. The whole thing. Same. However, practicing what I preached because it is so important to me for all the reasons. Now at this point in my life at 43, it does not, I, I've never been afraid of getting older. Yeah. You know? I'm sure turning 50 'cause I've heard my girlfriend and I'll talk about this will be a, A moment. Right. Oh, 50. That's an interesting, yeah. But that's just not something that you worry about or No, it really isn't. Think about. Yeah. Right. However, I am very aware and I'm so grateful for this awareness that I know, for example, when it comes to working out, 'cause I can feel too, because I am a working mom, own all these businesses. Mm-hmm. Do all that involved in, I mean, all the things. Right. I don't have to say. Right. I also know that I do have so much. While I know that I have a lot that I can keep, expending is a perfect word. Even when it comes to my workouts, you know, I practice my martial arts and I love my Pilates. Mm-hmm. I don't do so much cardio because by nature, and I'm giving myself as an example, by nature, I already know that if I do that I will expend more [00:24:00] cheese than I should be doing. Yeah. Because on a daily basis, I am utilizing so much cheap. Yeah. Right. And that is a, a very good way. And I make myself, I train myself mindset that pillar right to do these things. That's actually all three pillars, but. Because I know that that is truly how I can achieve longevity. Dr. Taz: Do you think that's what we're missing in the wellness world and in the, I believe Dr. Jenelle Kim: we're getting there. I believe people are understanding this more. You know? And, and when to do. When not to do. Yeah. Are there times that, you know, I feel like going and doing a lot of cardio. Not really. That's the truth. But if I did not point days day, maybe not, then it would be, it would be fine. I'd pay attention to my body. Right. That's what I'm going to, A lot of these practices, which keeps coming to mind right now, it's harder to put in words, but so many of these practices, while they help to rebalance ourselves, reset to bring in more vitality in she Right. Oftentimes, especially as the Taoist in me, the practices that I, the tools, all the medicines that I practice and I teach, I preach actually [00:25:00] help us to clear a lot of things. Mm-hmm. So that we can. Feel more. Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. Right. Totally. That's a thing that I'm really wishing to share properly. I will often say lately, I am not here to give you anything. I'm actually here to take things away. And it's, it's a very interesting, I heard myself say it one time when I was in a big event. 'cause oftentimes the way I do it at this point, you know, I have a lot right of things down is right. You know, just open yourself and connect. Yeah. And I connect with the people I'm in front of and whatever naturally should come, comes. And I heard myself say that actually. Yeah. I was like, ah, yes. That's very Taoist to me. But the truth is, I'm making kind of humor in it. But that is so correct. I see that at this moment in time, our modern world, literally where we're living, particularly in us, I can't speak to, I travel a lot, but I don't live in all these places. But there is just almost an, there's not almost, there's an overwhelm. Mm-hmm. All the things. Mm-hmm. Listen. I am one of the most grateful for this because as we just said, 20 years ago, I talked about any of this. People are like, and we were like, I wish we knew each other. I know [00:26:00] we were like on an island, what we do now. It wasn't meant to be, we had to follow, we had to find this, uh, walk this journey. But, you know, so on one hand it's amazing, it's opened. It's particularly after, you know, the last however many years. I don't even like saying COVID and the pandemic Right. And all the things, but it really helped people open their eyes. Yeah. But now that's again, let's look at the balance again. Right. It went from nothing to extreme, extreme. Right. And as I have a feeling, it's gonna get even more extreme and it's okay because as long as certain of us. Start to share and teach. Just be aware. Always find balance. Who are you listening to? Where did this information come from? You know, in East Asia, in Asia in general, and a lot of the ancient cultures, definitely ancient medicine, movement, martial artists, traditional martial artists, you always look for the teacher. Yeah. And that's something I really want too. I'm coming out a lot more saying this lately. Uh, with much respect. You know, it doesn't mean be closed-minded, don't listen. Right. But it is very important for us as a formulator and manufacturer, you know, [00:27:00] my, my brands, uh, my clients who put out beautiful formulas. We work with people who care. Whether it's supplements or beauty care, hair care, whatever it might be, basically they know, or how can I say it? Like they're carried in credo, Sephora, nor so how do you, so often people ask me, how do you know what the proper, you know, how do you know how, what product to pick? Right. Well, I know what I see and we work with many different people. But when you look into a company, you can feel, you can tell who are the founders, what were important, where does it link what you know. You might not know the lab, right? 'cause usually you won't know I'm there. Right. But at this point, you probably will know my stamp on things. Right. 'cause you'll see that. Right. But who cares about that? That is not my concern. Right. But it is know who you're, who you're getting your information from. Where did they get this from? And I'm talking not just beauty and wellness, even some of the, you know, I don't wanna say spiritual, but uh, for lack of a better word, whether it's a sound bath, whether it's, you know. Yeah. Any of your movement. It's very important. Dr. Taz: It's so hard for people, I think, and that sense of [00:28:00] overwhelm. I see. Mm-hmm. Me too. You know, in our clinics and even when I speak and write and stuff like that, I hear that from people all the time. Like, you know, do I cold plunge or do I do sauna? Do I like, you know, do cryo or do I do, you know, there's a lot of like, what do I do and where do I begin and how do I begin? And I think, you know, one of the things that I keep reminding everybody is like, we start with you. Yes. And we start with who you are. Yes. And whether we wanna use a word like constitution, or meridian or dosha, or whatever word we wanna use, we have to find a way of measuring your energy, quantifying your energy, getting a sense of your energy to where at some point it becomes very intuitive for you. Yes. Example, beautifully put, you know, um, I woke up this morning, I took time to meditate and read. I probably needed to lift weights. Okay. But I didn't feel like it. Yes. And intuitively. I, my body was like, no, that's not what you need to do today. Yes, you have a lot going on. Yes, you're gonna get on a plane, all these other things. So I didn't do it. [00:29:00] Do I feel guilty about it? Do I feel bad about it? No, because I kind of know now, for someone starting out on this journey, here's. What, you know, the fun part is bringing all this stuff together. So here's what's been fun. Like I've been asking patients mm-hmm. To look at their h hrv Yes. Heart rate variability. Right. To look at their heart rate. Yes. Their respiratory rate. Absolutely. Blood pressure as a way of, uh, discerning their constitution in the given moment. I love it. So the lower your HRV is, right? Like if you're down in the teens and the twenties Right. Then you're in a higher cortisol state, you're in a depletion state. Yes. Right. Is sort of what we would call it. Maybe not the day to do the marathon Yes. Or the heavy weights or those type of things. Mm-hmm. You have to honor the body. Yes. So that's a, a way of taking this idea of QI and Yes. Constitution and applying it to a very tactical Yes. Modern day scenario. Are there other examples of that that maybe I'm not dialing into Yes. That somebody would benefit from? Dr. Jenelle Kim: Mm-hmm. Well, first of all, I love that you said it that way, and [00:30:00] that is, we, we touched on it, but that is a beautiful way of, of seeing. How modern Western Eastern Ancient come together. Come together. Right. Which I love. So that's where I said, you know, I think that now there's more, there is integration. Right. Thank goodness we're doing it. Dr. Taaz. Yes. Yes. With all the other people who I'm so grateful. But yes, there, back in the day, people would assume that I would be like, oh, Western medicine, modern. And I'd, and I'd shock people all the time. Yeah. I do not feel that way. Yeah. Actually at all. Me neither. Yeah. How grateful I am that in this day and age we have diagnostic methods, right. We have, we can track these types of things that can help us see our body very clearly. Yeah. You know, when we have information. That's amazing. Right. You know, now what do you do for treatment? What do you do with that information? That's where we have to educate ourselves on what to do. Very, including as you just said, I love the word intuitively. Uh, and also you also mentioned, you know, I, I'm also, how can I say it? Like, I love communicating. Don't get caught up in these words. If it doesn't resonate with you or it makes [00:31:00] sense a different way, but it's the same principle. That is fine with me. Yeah, I hear you say that too. Yeah. Meaning, you know, if, if Q is not a way you understand something, then that's fine. How do you feel? Like let's, I'm all about are you stop making everything so complicated. Yeah. Like I just look around and everyone makes everything so hard, Dr. Taz: so hard and then they don't get paralysis. 'cause then you don't know what to do. Yes, I do. I'm ask you some questions. Is PCOS and endometriosis, are they young excess states? Too much fire. Too much energy. Dr. Jenelle Kim: Okay. See, that's where it can get a lot more detailed. Yes. It very much can be that way. But remember, excess can come from deficiency in eastern medicine. Right. I know you understand what I'm saying. This is why I don't like to want, ever want to confuse people. That's where, let's root it back for a moment. We have to constantly train ourselves. As much as I have done this my whole life, you have done this for possibly your whole life as well. I don't know how far back it goes. Right? Yeah. 20 years. Yeah. So we are, we are used to checking in with ourselves this way. Right. But you have to keep checking in and using our [00:32:00] diagnostic information, going to our doctors. I can't stop saying that because any kind of excess Right. Especially, you know, in the conditions that we're speaking of right now, by nature, when you look at it, that is what presents. But oftentimes, especially in this culture, it's rooted. I see that it's actually rooted in a deficiency, which is exactly what we're talking about. Yeah. Meaning we're, we're lacking. Nourishment. Mm. And actually I like that I just said that word on, not on accident. 'cause that's a word that really resonates for me. I constantly say to myself, this is nourishing for myself. 'cause that's how I train and remind my own self, and particularly strong women. Right? It's hard for me to say, I'm going to go relax. That does not resonate. No. Yeah. That's just the truth at this point. I'm not even gonna apologize about it. Like, oh, I'm gonna go relax. No, I'm not. I'll no. However, I, if I nourish, I say yes. If I say to myself, you're gonna go nourish yourself, Janelle, that's a very eastern medicine word. Right? Nourishing our condition, nourishing our digestive system. You know, hormones, one very foundational way of understanding how eastern medicine looks [00:33:00] at hormones, because we don't say it as like the individual chemicals. Mm-hmm. But as I said before, are the ener, yin and yang. Right. Energies in the organ systems. Right. Is the way we look at it as like the kidneys by nature. We recognize that it does a lot of the, so when I say these organ systems, I'm always careful to say they do the same functions. We recognize a lot of the same functions, modern medicine, western, eastern, ancient. Mm-hmm. But there's also other ways of understanding it. So in eastern medicine, the kidneys literally are in charge of rule. I actually love these words that they use. Yeah, yeah. Um, our essence, right? Our jing, our reproductive organs and system. So we don't necessarily talk about individual chemicals. I just said the liver is known to be in charge of the free flow of your cheek throughout your body. Yeah. That's why they say like when you're uptight anger, you have liver cheese stagnation. Mm-hmm. Your liver is the general of all of your organs. It's such a beautiful way of seeing it. Love it. I love thinking about it that way. Yes. And And I invite everyone to have that visual 'cause it helps us, honestly. It helps us to be graceful with ourselves, but the Dr. Taz: liver then is central to [00:34:00] hormone metabolism and hormone balance, everything. See, I love Dr. Jenelle Kim: this. This is my favorite. And then the liver is Dr. Taz: also central to detoxification of environmental chemicals. Yes. So in the modern age mm-hmm. When we have liver assault, yes. Why are we surprised that we have hormone. Yes. Dr. Jenelle Kim: Well that's, that's what we're hoping to share with everyone, right? Understand where it comes from to feel more in control. Yeah. I don't wanna use that word of your own body, because oftentimes what I see is that people get as, as totally understood, so scared when they hear these things 'cause it's so foreign, right? So yes, these, these things that we're saying are probably also foreign. But I find that if you can picture the liver's, the general, like, so when you do things that upset the liver, when they upset the liver, you're gonna make the general mad, right? Like, I love thinking of it this way, right? It's so simple. But like, we can remember this, you know, um, drinking a lot, you know, detoxification. The purification of the liver. Yeah. The function of it. We're gonna make it angry when we get too fre. The, the emotion, even emotions are tied to specific organ systems. [00:35:00] The emotion anger is tied to the liver, which is very interesting because it goes both ways, right? Mm-hmm. So if you are, tend to be a, in general, maybe it's part of literally the way you've always been your constitution and you're always angry, it will actually affect your liver function. On the flip side, you know, same, same when your liver's off balance for all the reasons, right? For example, that we just said, you will find yourself being more frustrated. Look at, let's go to, you know, the woman's time of the month. Totally. Dr. Taz: Yeah. Dr. Jenelle Kim: You're literally going into pre, uh, you know, PMS when you're pmms and people know like, oh, you get more uptight. What a cool thing to understand. Right? For lack of a better way of putting it. Oh, my liver is just, and to even know that releases you from, it's amazing how much just that letting that letting go again, the brain Dallas makes a difference. Dr. Taz: What about perimenopause and menopausal, let's revisit that. So, okay, so I was going Dr. Jenelle Kim: there. Okay, so going back. So kidneys are in charge of your essence reproduction liver, because this exactly has to do with perimenopause and menopause. This free flow of qi, the ultimate goal is to always have function and flow within [00:36:00] your body. That's the fountain of youth, beauty, wellness, longevity, mental fear, physical, spiritual. You want everything to flow. The second there's stagnation, there's imbalance, and there's, you know, sickness, illness, basically ensues. Mm-hmm. Again, that's physically, mentally, and spiritually. Right. Yeah. Um, also, let's stick to the kidney, that understanding. Yeah. Let's stick to the liver. That under strain. And the other organ system that's so important, especially in the western world mm-hmm. Is our digestive system. Right. Our middle, the gut, good old gut. Yep. And so the spleen and stomach. I'm like giving all the detail Yeah. Are paired because they needs medicine. All the organ systems are paired in yin yang pairs. I mean, it's so beautiful to me. I get so excited talking. Love it. Love as you can see. Yeah. So we won't go into every single one of 'em. Right. But spleen and stomach, pears, yin and yang. Mm-hmm. Spleen is yin, right. Stomach is y. So when you understand it this way, the stomach is in charge of the yang function. Right. So remember yang is the movement. The loud, it's the Yeah. You know, the masculine of it. It's the one that processes literally takes in our food [00:37:00] in eastern medicine and, and you know, breaks it down and processes it. Yeah. Well the spleen, which is the yin organ, is the one that takes in all the nourishment it takes in the qi. So we have to nourish to build. Yes. You, you need both. Right. In and young. Right. Right. And so also, you even said cold plunge, so I'm gonna connect all the things. Yeah. Okay. In general, women. Right. It's very important that our reproductive system, our middle in general for humans, men and women alike, you want your, your middle, your digestive system to stay warm. Mm-hmm. So in all of our ancient cultures, whether they talk about it as medicine or not, there's so many warming foods, right? So, because that is what making the spleen happy, that's where the spleen takes all of the energy from the food. You're making it happy. So drinking ice water. Is a huge no-no in my house. Mm. You rarely see that. Nowadays it might be shifting, but in ancient cultures in Asia, you don't drink ice water. You do not drink ice water, particularly when you're eating. Right, because you're just literally upsetting your stomach. Yeah. All the warmth that makes the chi. [00:38:00] And so I wanna get this. And you don't cold plunge you and cold. How about this? It's not that you don't. But for a long time I've been in, now it's coming out, people are speaking out about this a lot more. Right. In general for women, because remember, we're yin, right? Yin by nature is we cold reproduction, reproductive, a lot of the imbalances, and you're reproductive. So whether it's fertility, you know, menstrual, uh, imbalances, you know, menopause, extreme symptoms, a lot of it comes from cold in our culture. Mm-hmm. Dr. Taz: Well, I get that. So mm-hmm. I'll do these meridian evaluations on patients when they come in. Yes. Love that. And they're metal dominant. Yes. Metal is cold. Yes. Metal is hard. Yes, metal is dry. Yes. You know, so many women in menopause and perimenopause have a metal constitution. Yes. And need warming. So I talk to them a lot about how can we warm you Huge. You know? Yes. So those are some of the things that, you know, we'll bring into practicality, you know, within our clinics. But I think the, the main take home point that I think both of us are trying to make is that understanding constitution. And then building from [00:39:00] there Yes. Is a way to not chase wellness. Yes. But to personalize wellness to you. Absolutely. And then merging it with all the things that are out there. Yes. So that's how you differentiate between coal, plunger, sauna, or this or that, or Exactly. All these different things. And actually it'll Dr. Jenelle Kim: become very enjoyable. What I love is, at first it might feel overwhelming, but just taking a step by step. Like anything in life for all three pillars. Yeah. Mindset, movement, medicine. Yep. It actually becomes very, very enjoyable and much less stressful way of living. You're right. Yes. And And you know what the truth is? It really comes down to very simple things. Dr. Taz: So if we're trying to write a wellness prescription, so to speak, for ourselves, yes. And we're using these three pillars, right? Mindset. Movement. What was the third one? Mindset. Movement. Medicine. Medicine. Mm-hmm. What does that look like for somebody? Let's do it for someone who is yin. Let's do it for the average woman. Mm-hmm. Who is yin maybe. Deficient, let's say in deficient. That's lot of us in what would a Dr. Jenelle Kim: prescription look like? Okay, well you know what? My constitution and the way I live my life [00:40:00] with a lot on my plate. Mm-hmm. Which I don't think of it that way, but it's the reality. Uh. I know that in my life I want to be aware of not becoming in deficient. So let me walk through my day. Mm-hmm. With the three m's. Okay. When I wake up in the morning, that is my favorite time to practice my movement and my mindset. Right? So when I wake up and the difference, one of the things I really love to share is it doesn't have to be so long. Like I'm very adamant about that. Yeah. I'm going to an event, you know, an a couple events coming up. Awesome. Longevity, beauty, all the things. Yeah. And so when I teach, whether I'm teaching, you know, the medicine pillar or the movement, I won't even do it for an hour. Like the movement, I keep it at 45 minutes. So often I'll do the Qigong, the sound bath, acupressure treatments, because I'm, I wish to share with people, we think we have to sit and meditate for hours at a time. No. So now we'll switch into the other pillars for a moment. Right. Okay. No, it takes a couple of minutes. The way up my. My father taught, his master taught him. That's like a very almost traditional martial artist way of understanding. Yeah. Is and in general you, if you can put your mind and your heart into something, be present [00:41:00] for even five minutes, it can be better than an hour. Hmm. And we have to understand it that way we can reset our body very quickly. So in the morning I give myself 15 minutes. That's the truth. That's wake up early. Yes. Sometimes if I have more time. Awesome. Today I have to tell you, I had five, yeah. Five minutes. Yeah. And in full transparency, even this morning I was like, I just have to pack. 'cause I'm coming to LA for a couple days and had to like think of the outfits. Yeah. Whole thing. People outfit would think I'm into this. I'm actually not into it at all. I'd wear the same outfit every time for up to me. Gotcha. Um, you know, so I had five minutes. I wanted to spend a little bit more time with my boys before they went to school, all the things. But I said to myself, Janelle, it's five minutes. What I love to do is if I can step outside in fresh air, the sun, all of the things for five minutes. And then I'll do my breath work. But what that looks like is I'll do my breath work, my Qigong techniques, I will wake up, I will, I have my regimen, my ritual, I like better of taking certain supplements that are balanced for my body, herbs and other things combined. Right. Um, I personally do not eat breakfast. Again, this is kind of the whole, how I [00:42:00] practice these and how we can look at it. I do intermittent fasting. I've done this for a long time, except for when I was pregnant. Mm-hmm. I don't think our ancient teachers called it intermittent fasting. Right. They just did it. Right. It's the understanding of letting your digestive system rest for a set number of ti number of hours. Right. Right. And so these are the ways that we can incorporate into our life. I wrote this book, eight Keys of Living Meditation. Okay. Which is M Song, the Korean Art of Living Meditation. There's eight keys. Okay. In February we're gonna launch a new edition, paperback version. Amazing. I'm very, I'm really looking forward to this beyond, one of the things I'm most excited about is the new title is called The Korean Art of Living Well. Mm-hmm. Because that's what we're doing. Right, right. And so, kind of in conclusion, the way we can incorporate all these pillars, those eight keys are always in my life. Gotcha. You know? So you are Dr. Taz: conscientiously bringing this constantly, it's Dr. Jenelle Kim: a guide. Dr. Taz: Amazing. So lifestyle in your book, people will have a way of trying to Yes. To bring that into their own lives. Yes. Okay. Let's talk about herbs for a second. Okay. Because they're a big part of eastern medicine. Yes. This is true. Uh, [00:43:00] Western medicine will sometimes say herbs are not medicine. Yes. Except for Western medicine. Definitely uses all based on plant medicine, but yes. Okay. Tell us a little bit about the use of herbs and what is the. Proper use. What is where, you know, where do people get in trouble? What is the historical kind of context of herbal medicine, you know, from a Korean standpoint? Yes. Give us a sense of that. Dr. Jenelle Kim: Okay. So I know we, we don't have hours to discuss this, right. But um, so yes, when we think of herbs, we think of the individual ingredient, right? Correct. Plants, botanicals, herbal ingredients, whatever we wish to call it. Right? Listen, I went to school and studied this. It is not easy, right? To memorize. There's thing, every aspect, whole thing to people have no clue. Yeah. And so that is a huge part of it. And I incorporate herbal ingredients into almost everything that I do. Yeah. You know, even the huge companies now, beauty companies, you all know that will come Yeah. And want to integrate a lot of these ingredients always with purpose. You know, because everyone recognizes, right. We're talking our ginseng. And also for years ago, I, I entered into the world of adaptogens, which I [00:44:00] still feel like has not hit the way. Mm-hmm. I would imagine it to. Mm-hmm. But that principle of adaptogens helping us to adapt, you know, these, this plant medicine, these herbs help us to adapt. That's what that means. Yeah. And there's certain categories of these herbs that do that well, that's a principle of herbal medicine forever. Okay. So these are, these are the main things I wish for people to know. 'cause I can sit here and spit out a million herbs and what they're good for. Right. But, but for example, our ginsengs, I mean, that's like the ultimate Ren. She re is human. Mm-hmm. It's like the prized. Mm-hmm. You know, and then we have Hu Chi or Astragalus Yes. Love. We have Don love Astragalus, you know, which is love. Angelica Ensis. Uh, and there's also another form. Mm-hmm. Okay. Goji berries, jujube, I mean, I can go on and on. I use that in skincare. I use that in internal formulas. Um. Not always easy to use them in skincare. I haven't said this in a long time because it's not always easy to have your, your largest organ, your skin to absorb them in such a way. So here's where I wanna go with answering. You people think of herbology and they are [00:45:00] not incorrect as individual ingredients. Correct. But actually what has been passed down in my lineage, true herbal medicine, is actually the synergy of those ingredients. It's how you put everything together. Mm. Right? It's how dya is the, the pairing of herbs. So you can have an ingredient, an herbal ingredient that can do one thing, A powerful one, right. Korean ginseng. Okay. It's known that one. You have to be careful. This is, uh, answering also another question that we just think, oh, it's natural. No, no, you can Absolutely natural. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Have an imbalance, uh, reaction. That's the truth. If you don't know what you're doing with herbal, you know, plant medicine botanicals. But Korean ginseng is known to have so many benefits, but it is strong. Yeah. And some people should not have it. You have high blood pressure. You, for example, you better be careful. Um, so understand what I'm saying here. That's an extreme version to make a point. But a true herbologists would know how to take that Korean ginseng, red ginseng, and let's say we wanna use it for, you know, sleep, for calming, for something that on its [00:46:00] own, it could not do. So many herbs are this way, you know how to combine it mm-hmm. With another herb or other herbs in this beautiful recipe. And that's true herbal medicine. Mm. That is what I've taught for 20 plus years. That is what has been so in, I told you I made a couple hero products. Yeah. Yeah. I made longevity potions. There's a reason why I even call it that. Um, you know, I love what I do. I'm behind the scenes, but for people who don't know where to find them right now, I have some options. Yeah. Uh, you will see on there that I use be bong formulas. Okay. Be bong means secret formulas. That's what's been passed down in my lineage. So that's where I get, like, go into my treasure chest. Mm. Because I'm the guardian of that chest of formulas. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's the secret formula though. So it's formulas of herbs put together. Yes. So I can put on, of course, I'll put on the label. Yeah. I mean, we're a lab. We've been doing this forever. CGP, FDA registered, all the things. Right, right. So, of course, you know. What their herbs are, but what you don't know necessarily, uh, unless you are, this has been passed on, taught this way, is where that herb came from. Like truly. Of course we give [00:47:00] those, you know, that, that testing and all of that as well. Right. But what I'm talking about a true ologist, true herbology, for example, even finding a piece of ginseng root, right? Yeah. In the mountains of Korea. Yeah. They say that when there's certain people, they even choose to go and find the highest quality on that mountain. Like that is, that is the, the. Reverence. That is the sacredness of Because of the energy. Because of the energy of that. Yeah. Because that herb can literally heal you. Mm. And so they, the story goes, again, more of an intense, but I love this, you know? Yeah. Literally the people, the farmers or whatever they call them, I don't know what they necessarily the name is, that translates, but they'll go into the mountain. And if that person is not even a centered human being, they will not even find that route. And I'll let it be known. When you go to Asia and we'll see more and more about this, you'll be walking down the streets of what? Hong Kong, for example. Mm-hmm. And you'll to the naked eye, you might not know the difference. This ginseng will cost $50 ginseng root, and then you'll be holding another one that costs half a million, you know? But it's because the energies of [00:48:00] those ingredients. So that's the kind of thing. Wow. That true herbal medicine. You know, that's what that entails. So it dials into Yes. So it is. Okay. So now just to sum everything up, how it applies to most of us, right? Right now in modern world, how I create formulations, product development, all of that is understanding that synergy of ingredients. Mm-hmm. Like I say, you can have the best ingredient in the world, but if your body can't absorb it and process it, so what we do, Dr. Taz: like how do we know? Like even for someone like me or for the consumer, right? Yes. Like, how do we know when I tell somebody to take ashwagandha or when I tell somebody, like, I have a product that has a ragus in it that I swear by, it keeps us, well, love it. True. Um, how, how do we know where, like how do we screen for this? Dr. Jenelle Kim: Yes. A lot of the herbs that you're talking about, as I mentioned, and I love this, I don't always get to talk about this. Yeah. Uh, belong to a certain category of herbs. They're like the highest category of herbs. Uh, I don't wanna confuse people, but that category is known to be kind of like the elite herbs, if you will. Okay. Because they are so powerful, but they're, they don't. They, they [00:49:00] don't have a lot of bad side effects. Got it. Yeah. Does that make sense? So like a lot of people can take them. That is all the ones I just oftentimes those are your adaptogens. Okay. As well. Categorized in that way. Why I wanna say that is I don't wanna scare people per se, because I know why you love the astragalus. That's like the number one cheat earth. Yeah. You know, I love fot, ashwagandha, fot, the Polygonum. I mean, that's one of my favorites. Yeah. That's a blood herb for circulation, particularly for women. Yeah. Again, beautiful in skincare, right? So. So a lot of times when you take those individually, it's going to be okay. Yeah. Now the truth is, polygonum foti, if you took too much of that, which is hard to do in the way that it is, we do it today, it is offered Right. For, you know, in whether, whatever form. Yeah. But if you took too much of that, like say we did do it in the way that if you went to a Chinese medical doctor or biologist, right. They give you the raw herbs and you cook it on your, you make it very concentrated. Right. Which by the way, that's how we do it in our lab. Right. Which I used to think everyone did, and everyone's like, no, Janelle, nobody does that. Yeah. We extract our own ingredients basically, but that can become [00:50:00] cloying. They say like, and it can actually be stagnant in your body. So now all of a sudden you start to harm your digestion if you do not know how to use that herb properly. Wow. That's where we can go. But my point is, a lot of what is offered, going back to that, it's okay. It's more like food is the way I look at it. Dr. Taz: Okay. So we have this massive industry. Yes. With. Herbal supplements. Yes. Products. Mm-hmm. Skincare, clean beauty. Right. Non-toxic living. Yes, of course. Um, Dr. Jenelle Kim: which I agree with. Course. A lot Dr. Taz: of us are fascinated, are bringing some of these ingredients into our formulations. You know, I personally am like, I have blush schlocks that has amla and foti in it. They're beautiful. And B vitamins and mag, you know, so we. We've been doing this formulation, you know, what's your thought on the industry and where we're going with all of this? And if we really want results for longevity, for beauty. Mm-hmm. You know, for energy, you know, to replenish our qi, right? Like how do we navigate the space? So confusing. Dr. Jenelle Kim: Okay. Yes. And so I might be repeating, but it's, the best way to [00:51:00] look at it is you have to like. You, Dr. Te, what you create. You have been doing this for 20 plus years. Yeah. Clinically, like with people, with people, you know, maybe I'm not in a clinic, but I have been doing this with people. Right, right, right. No, and and for me, yes. For centuries and my, you know, my lineage. Right. Who have been taking these things and so that matters. So look at again, who are you getting this from? Who is this company? Where is the ingredient from? Do they, you know, basically make their products in a lab, particularly when it comes to supplements, anything internal that it has all of that. Now things are becoming much more strict, thank goodness. Like literally the government is looking into more things as they should. Yeah. And it's gonna knock a lot of people out. Yeah. We were never concerned we were all for this 'cause we've been doing it no other way for decades, you know? Right. Uhhuh, that's a good way of, of understanding it. But yes, I would, I would be the first to say, don't just go and try every single thing, because it was a cool trend. Right. That is not how it works. Yeah. And also remember that. For digestion. You know, even in my own family, we don't just take a million things every single day. That's [00:52:00] not necessarily good for you. It's not good Dr. Taz: for the belly or the liver? No. At all. The liver, the general, the liver, Dr. Jenelle Kim: the general and digestion, which you, you also said it can, you can, you can throw your digestion off, which by the way, you do that and nothing's gonna work. Right. That's the way to look at it. So I know that this is not such specific ways of answering, but I'm not gonna necessarily knock anything in particular because we'd be here all day. Right. And because there's so much. But do find the companies who really know what they're doing, who has formulators and, and at this point I'm thinking of the ones that I know. Of course, very well, they make that very clear, you know, like how they Dr. Taz: formulate, how they formulate where the source from where they formulate. Yes. Okay. Dr. Jenelle Kim: I mean, once again, we have been, and, and I always thought that this is the way, but it's coming a lot to my attention node and all this is not the way that our lab, you know, we have always produced everything from the moment, from concept to finished product in, in California. Yeah. Yeah. You know, a lot of these products do come from elsewhere and you don't know. How they do everything. That again, that's shifting right now, thank goodness. So, and what's your Dr. Taz: opinion in general on sort of the non-toxic clean [00:53:00] beauty? I know you've been doing clean beauty for a long period of time. Yes, huge. Dr. Jenelle Kim: And maybe I'll explain it a little different than what people hear and it's my favorite way of thinking of it. It goes like this, our body is miraculous as we all know. Like actually we are. Look at us. Even I talked to my boys about this. I was like, first of all, do you understand that I made you in my stomach? There's a lot more like, yeah, okay. That's also a whole funny other conversation. Yeah. But our bodies are miraculous. Like they know what to, our bodies know what to do. Right. The thing is, is that every single moment we are walking through so much. Mm-hmm. Even when we're sleeping from the air that we're breathing bacteria, viruses, toxins, pollution, radiation. Yeah. I mean, when you think of it that way, it can be incredibly overwhelming and stressful. Right? So, of course we have to take care of ourselves. So why have I been about natural products? Clean beauty didn't even exist. Now, of course, clean beauty. Why have I always been on the forefront fighting for this, my own self with amazing people like yourself? I like to think of it as our bodies are working so hard all of the time, [00:54:00] and the same thing goes for the movement and the mindset pillar. Mm-hmm. Our minds all, that's why I say stop making everything so hard and complicated all the time. Mm. Meaning you keep putting chemicals, preservatives, toxic substances onto your body, into your body. You're just making it harder for your body. Yeah. Period. It's your choice and everything in balance. Seriously. Yeah. Do my kids have, you know, a. Takis. I'm like, I shouldn't even be saying this brand. I said it loud. It's like a whole movement. I'm like, gosh, there's other alternatives. Yeah. Every once in a while, yes. 'cause everything in balance, but Dr. Taz: So what are like three as a formulator? What are three ingredients? That you would warn us to stay away from that are used commonly in, in skin care? Well, it's my favorite Dr. Jenelle Kim: in general. Your silicones, your like very harsh preservatives. Um, I can name all the things, but I always wanna be careful because on both ends, if you start saying, for example, some of our natural alternatives, you'll turn on [00:55:00] social media and then they'll start saying that, that's a horrible one. Yeah. You're like, well, okay, that's fine. Right. But what you don't understand is actually how much do you have to take? I'm gonna say it different, but like how much do you have to use of that for it to be toxic? To be, and also do you even understand that like those are the options right now. Right. And they're very important. Otherwise you're gonna be walking around with a product with mold and you know, bacteria and so. So not necessarily calling things out per se, but in general, any kind of artificial colors. Okay. Artificial. That's easy. Fragrances. It's easy, but it is everywhere. Yeah. Like, and it's ones that people can recognize. Mm-hmm. Right? So when you see the word perfume or fragrance, it's not so great for you. Like literally that's chemicals. So in almost always beauty and Dr. Taz: in skincare, Dr. Jenelle Kim: artificial colors, uh, you know, your parabens, your silicones, all of this. And, and that's used in many products. And again, to your discretion and every, there's a a level of, you know, what can be a little bit more balanced. If you wanna use a product that you love that has some silicones in it, that's to your discretion. Do I? No, not necessarily ever, [00:56:00] because I know that that's going to actually not help my cells to rejuvenate and be vital and all the things. That's the thing, right? So everything in balance, there are some things that are much more dangerous or will impede our condition more than others. But again, my favorite thing is the more we put onto and into our body that is clean or natural, not toxic for us, the happier our body's gonna be. Right? And then the happier you are. So, period. Dr. Taz: What's the what? I'm so curious. Yes. What's the number one Korean beauty skincare secret that nobody knows? Dr. Jenelle Kim: Hmm. Dr. Taz: I like Dr. Jenelle Kim: that. The way I would say this, 'cause there can be so many specific things and I can make it more fun if you want me to do that. But the number one thing is function and flow. So the ingredients that you use, again, that goes to actually answering what the other question, why not use chemicals and toxins. You have to always think of your body as making all of your organ systems, including your skin function and flow. So for me, that's herbs that create chi astragalus a huge [00:57:00] chi building, Angelica blood building, like putting in any kinds of ingredients that really help that rejuvenation of the function and flow. Mm. Okay. So that's kind of boring answer. I know you want more than that. Um, so in Korean beauty in particular, well for Dr. Taz: example, I just had a friend come back from Korea. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she said they live and breathe beauty. Yes. From the time they're little. Yes. What are they doing that we're not doing? Dr. Jenelle Kim: We're extreme. Yeah. In Korea. Yeah. We're like, oh, beauty is important. And then guess what? It is important. Yeah. It sounds like it's like we never forget, read into the like, you know? Yes. And, but, but I, I'm certain I don't live there. Right. But what I have been taught, and I'm very traditional in nature, you know, and, and my culture is, you know what, here's my answer. Okay. I knew I had to get there, but I wanted to be very authentic. Do not just think of it, and they may not say this, the whoever they are, I don't know who they are, but you get what I'm saying. True beauty truly does come from all three of those pillars. I'm not messing around. This is not something I, I [00:58:00] created myself. I might call 'em the three m's. I don't think my ancient ancestor teachers were running on being like, well, the three s and the three pillars, no. But beauty really does come from our mindset, how we think, how we feel, how much we're able to balance stress. That's a Korean beauty stick. You can't formula as far as I'm, Dr. Taz: can formula formulate something? Dr. Jenelle Kim: Sorry. It's not that easy. That's exactly what the modern world would like. Maybe. I don't know. I'm working on it. Just gimme the formula. I'm Dr. Ta. That's exactly what I'm doing. Movement. Yeah. When we feel stressed, taking five minutes to breathe into our stomach. Exhale. From our abdomen, grounding ourself, literally feeling our energy be grounded so that we can move forward without as much stress. Stress is the number one. Is the number one, right? And then yes, what we put onto our body. So I am not kidding. That is my answer. And I'm not just saying this. I really wish for everyone to understand you can use all of the products you want. I make those products. I want you to use the products, you know, I want you to eat properly. I want you to take the supplement, but let it be known. [00:59:00] If you do not train your mind, if you do not teach yourself constantly how to balance with stress, how to find joy in life, how to communicate properly, you will never find beauty. Mm. That's my answer. Whole different definition of beauty. Yes, for sure. Alright. Korean, or not, this may be the same answer and you can just say same answer. Yes. Oh, I, no problem doing that. Number one. Dr. Taz: Longevity. I hate to use the word hack. Yes. But number one, longevity rule. Dr. Jenelle Kim: Yes. In Dr. Taz: Oriental medicine, Dr. Jenelle Kim: you're right. It's the same answer. Let me tell you right before, like biohacking, I heard this, I mean, I've talked about longevity. That's what all of this is. I'll never forget, I don't even know if I should be sharing this, but I called my team, my publicist particular, and I was getting something frustrated me, which is very difficult to do. Right. I really don't get stressed very easily. Right. And I saw something and I was like, you know enough? Because I care like enough, like, and just call everyone. Because here's the thing, what I talked about was Taoist Immortals. And so like I'll remind everyone, they were the old, they were the original biohackers. [01:00:00] Yeah. Yeah, totally. Literally the Doost Immortals, these are the people that I speak of when I say 10,000 years ago. That's what they, you can look it up now. It's now you can read about them, right? The most beautiful thing is when you go to read what their secrets were, what they did. And by the way, what I like to say is here we are wishing to have longevity, to be beautiful for however long to live healthy lives and be active. Do we understand what immortal means? It means you never die. Mm-hmm. Okay. So these people were not even interested in trying to find longevity hacks. Right. They were interested in never dying. Wow. And you know what? For all we know, they could still be in the mountains of East Asia. Oh gosh. All I know, it blows your mind. It might be crazy, but you know, I think about that sometimes. And they did exactly these 3M, they practiced Qigong, they went into the mountains and found like my father. You know, literally my own father. I live here in California. I have my own children. He, so it's not that far a lot ago. Yeah, right. He was in the mountains of East Asia looking for food, finding herbs in the mountain with his master. I say stress is different. And he would actually even [01:01:00] say at times we would, he was the best. And he had a great sense of humor as well. But you know, there were times where he would say, you know, we don't have to worry about getting eaten by a tiger. I mean, I'm, I think that's a whole other stress. Yeah. You know, or like literally not having food, or if you're sick, finding an herb to be able to heal yourself because you can't just go to the doctor. Wow. However, the stress in modern day, my father at times were like, take me back to that mountain. I would rather any day try to watch out now. He would never speak that way. Right. But it was a, you know, it's an interesting perspective. Yeah. But point being, longevity. The hacks. Hacks, not hacks. It's the way of living. Are the movement aspect. Breathing properly as a way, as a medicine of rebalancing our mind, no different than our body, the medicine that's been handed down, and everything that we put onto into our body food, how we, how we consistently wish to understand ourselves and how we go about that. And the mindset, constantly watching how we think, checking ourselves. [01:02:00] You know, I, I suppose I'll end on this whole conversation. I've enjoyed so much and it's been a little intense, but thank us. Fun. I love it. It's fun. So hopefully it gets in people's minds, but. You know, there's something that I have, I have been thinking about a lot lately and sharing. And so I, I wanna put out all the positive energy, and I don't always speak that way when I say this, but you know, something that is very important, and it stems back to, it's been nine years, but I think about when I lost my father. Mm. He was as healthy as can be. Right. And so it was his time. That's a whole other conversation, but it happened in an instant and I was with him. And so that is a whole other, like I said, conversation. Yeah. But in the last year, again, I think I was on a podcast in an interview and they asked me some kind of question about what I learned from that, what gift they posed it in a way I've never heard. And again, I heard myself say in a moment when I just let go and answered. It was the greatest gift he ever gave me. Also the most horrific thing I've ever walked through. Let's be clear. Mm-hmm. Because I have chosen that in honor of him, in honor of my own life, in honor of everyone that I love, and I'm connected [01:03:00] to everything that I do. We must never forget that literally we. We may not be here tomorrow. Mm. And when you start to think of it that way, and it's more, to me, that's even more like mentally, uh, relationship, community, you know, when we get in arguments, what's important to us, all the points we wish to in Korean. Key number three, we call it doci. Stop being drunk on your own thoughts. Mm. Because actually the most dangerous thing. We think it's all these things. We think it's the chemicals and the preservers. Yes. Right. A hundred percent. You know, the most dangerous thing, the way that the ancient teachers, the Taoist Immortals would teach us is actually, it's our own mind. Right? It's our own thoughts. Don't get drunk. We don't, on your own thought. We don't get Doci key number three, do not get to stop being drunk on your own thoughts because it closes us off from everything. Constantly. Be open constantly. And it's a constant training as a human being. You'll never just master this. Well understand what I mean? It's constant because by nature we are human beings. Mm-hmm. So anyways, when we think of life that way, particularly because that is beauty and longevity, and we really [01:04:00] remember that tomorrow we might not be here when it comes to all the stressors that are the hardest to overcome. Right. Work, parenting relationships. That's harder than changing. You know, what you're eating that day. Right. Right. Let's be clear. Mm-hmm. And that very much is our longevity and beauty. If we think of life that way, things shift. If I'm not here tomorrow, does that argument, does that really matter? Does it matter? It's a very interesting way of training our mind that I'm, I'm on a mission to for as long as it feels correct. Share. Because it does, it changes your mind, I would say, or, or when it comes to eating. I'm sorry Dr. Cha. I don't wanna like No, no. It's hard to change. It's hard to, you have to train to make good habits. Yeah. Right. Mindset. Yeah. If you, it's up to you. No one can do this for you. I wish. I wish I could, but I cannot. I tell my own children this. Dr. Taz: Yeah. Dr. Jenelle Kim: I literally put you into this life and I cannot actually make you do anything. Who's gonna carry on and be the 10th generation? I love that. Um, I'll be in the car and they'll get in arguments, which I love. Like, no, I'm gonna do the love. I'm gonna do the martial arts, I'm gonna do the book. I'm like, why can't you [01:05:00] all do all of it? Yeah, but you know what, Dr. Taz? I don't know. It's so funny 'cause this just came up for the first time. Mm-hmm. But isn't that the way the universe would, I don't know. Isn't that funny? I wish for it to be one of my boys. Yeah. Do I think there's a great possibility? You better believe it. Dr. Taz: Yeah. Dr. Jenelle Kim: I have nieces and who's to say? Because as much as family is the closest and we all connect in all of this, who is to say Dr. Taz: what's next? You know? And it's Dr. Jenelle Kim: not up to me in many ways. The way I truly look at it, it really, it it is, but it isn't. It will come like that when it's the sacred things like that in my life, I don't use my brain. Dr. Taz: What do you see moving forward for traditional oriental medicine, for eastern medicine? Oh, Dr. Jenelle Kim: I am so happy. What are you seeing? Yeah, it's going to do exactly what it's doing. In the sense of that's why I'm so grateful for you and our connection, and I'm sure we'll collaborate in many ways. Sure. I hope so. I'm sure. Yeah. Is that integration, that word? It is happening. It took a while and then it happened. It seems like it's happening very fast. Mm-hmm. And I couldn't because we need it. Mm-hmm. Right. So what I see is that more and more [01:06:00] it's going to come out. And again, I believe it's my job. I won't put this on anyone else. I have the duty of doing my very best to help people balance it. 'cause that's the key. And navigate it. And navigate it. Right. Equals same. I love that you said that. Yeah. Because that's gonna be the most important thing. And be discerning of who you're listening to, who you're learning from. Mm-hmm. Be open. Yeah. Always. But all these things are very important, especially in these times. But yeah, I couldn't be more grateful that it's all there now. It's interesting. Dr. Taz: Yes. All. So your Dr. Jenelle Kim: book? Yes. I'm gonna let you say that so I don't butcher it. Well, I know that's one of the reasons I'm excited for the new version. So it's, it's Sung Sung, the Korean Art of Living Meditation. Okay. And the new book is, is The Korean Art of Living Well. Oh, so much easier. Look at that. That's so it's paying around a house. You can find it anywhere. Books are sold, of course. Amazon Barnes. Incredible. And if anyone wants to connect with you, Dr. Taz: what's, where's the best place for them to Dr. Jenelle Kim: do that? My website janelle kim.com. Uh, on social media, I'm most engaged on Instagram, but in all the places, um, I have my own podcast, which I can't wait to have you on. Yes. The experts. And it [01:07:00] does everything. The intention behind this is if I needed another job, but I'm could not be happier on the other side. Right. Uh, is really finding the experts. Yeah. To take away the overwhelm and bringing that teaching aspect to it. Exactly, exactly. Incredible. And then finally, I'm really excited because you'll find this in all the places, the website, you can sign up and basically be on a wait list right now. Yeah. We try and move fast is I will. I am finally going to create the community, the Enso, which incredible, which is the Enso Circle, right? Nothing comes, everything. The Dow. And that's a place that everyone can go for all of these things, you know? We're consolidating it. I love it. I love it all. I love one person, unfortunately. All Dr. Taz: right. Last question, but maybe the most important, what makes you whole? Dr. Jenelle Kim: Oh, what makes me whole? I like always the first thing that comes to my mind, because of course, when I think. What makes me whole? It's my, my boys. Mm-hmm. It's my family, it's my people. It's that connection. But the first thing that came to me when you asked me that, Dr. Taaz, what makes me whole is sharing all of this. Mm-hmm. Like doing my duty, my mission. Your mission, your soul's purpose. Yes. I love it. It makes me wanna cry. [01:08:00] Dr. Taz: Ah. Which is odd. Incredible. Yes. I'm so honored to know you and meet you. I know we're gonna continue to collaborate. Yes. Thank you for taking time outta your schedule. Mm-hmm. To be on the show. No, appreciate. And for everybody else watching and listening, we did go deep into traditional oriental medicine. We do want you to understand your constitution and ideas around energy, but more importantly, I think the main idea, actually I love this, don't get drunk on your thoughts. Yes. And secondly, really personalize your wellness and health information and routines and journey. To you. You are more unique than anybody else out there. It's not a one size fits all. Yes. So thank you for watching and listening to this episode of Whole Plus, and I will see you guys next time. Thank you so much, Dr. Des. You're welcome. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Whole Plus, be sure to share this episode with your friends and family. And if you haven't already, please take a moment to subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. To engage with the community, [01:09:00] follow at Live Whole Plus and check out our website whole plus.co. That's HOL ps.co. For more resources and information on holistic health, see you next time.