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E36 How to Close More Sales with Balve Bains · Stronger Business Together

• Granger Forson: So is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from other owners. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today I'm joined by Balv Bains who runs Purple Square AI. And like any owner he's in that middle of building things, fixing things and growing something that really matters to him. So Balv, welcome. Balve: Thank you so much Grange, I'm so excited to be here. We've had some problems getting here but we managed to get Granger Forson: We have. Balve: here so super excited for this conversation and super excited to get started. Granger Forson: Yes, let's hope the technology runs today. Looking good so far. So we've actually got to this point. So let's start with Act 1 then. In plain English, what does your business do? Balve: Yeah, so we, as you said in your introduction, we are Purple Square AI. So we help independent hospitality properties, automate all the boring and mundane questions that guests in those properties have. So if you are in a hotel or an Airbnb and you need an answer to your question, whether it be, I don't know, what time's the spa open tomorrow? could be local attractions. It could be what time's my checkout. Wherever it might be, you scan a QR code. that's in your room or via a link, you either type or voice your question in, takes it straight to our system, and it will answer that question within probably 10-ish seconds. I want it quicker, but my team says that doesn't matter. So I've been forced to force my hand on that way. So yeah, that's basically what we do with saving the team's time and also the guest gets their answer as quick as possible. So in a nutshell, Granger, that's pretty much what we do. Granger Forson: Brilliant. that's that's really good. And actually, that clears up my next question. So actually, let's move on and say, when did the business start? What was that original spark? Balve: that's a good question. So I was having a drink with a friend, must have been Christmas 2024, I think that's when we sort of the idea sort of start formulating and the know, light bulbs start coming. So my sort of day, quite and quiet job is I'm a presenter. So for the last maybe 10, 15 years or so I've been presenting and I'm quite lucky enough to work with and talk to C-suite executives. But before I was a presenter, I used to work in hospitality. So when I was having that drink with that friend who still works in hospitality, she was moaning. And I'm not going to use the language that she was using because I don't think it's appropriate. But she was using some very colorful language. Let's put it that way, Granger. And she saying that these guests keep asking the same questions. And they keep, you know, the same question 20 times a day. And I'm answering them. And, you know, it's just like an ongoing cycle. And I know the tomorrow's going to be the same, the day after's going be the same. And I left that pub. thinking there must be a solution to this. And when I've been presenting, these CESuite executives and these directors and people high up in these companies kept talking about this thing called AI. And I thought there must be something in that between hospitality and AI. And there must be an intersection there. And that's how Purple Square was kind of born, I guess is the best way to say it. Yeah, so we spent a couple of months so, you know refining the idea do a market research building the product retesting testing retesting Until we had a product that you know semi works. I don't think perfectionism That's why I was chasing for perfectionism, which doesn't exist by the way and Granger Forson: Yeah. Nope. Balve: I learned as soon as it was good enough if it were 70 75 percent 80 percent there send it out to the world. So that's what we did and Yeah, it's been a hard journey, a lot of crying, but it's been fun. So yeah, that's basically how we sort of started and how the idea was born. Granger Forson: Brilliant, that's really good. And you can just a small masterclass there on building a digital business, know, and that realization that we can chase that perfection all the time. Everyone talks about it in the digital world, where actually you need to get something out there because actually you'll learn from then your clients. They'll give you that feedback to help you grow and develop it even further rather than just guessing what people need. So yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Balve: Yeah, I always I always use the analogy of if I was teaching you how to swim, Granger, would you rather we sit down in a classroom and get the books out? You know, I teach you the techniques and the strokes and or should we just get in the pool? Let's get the pool. You know, I've always Granger Forson: Hahaha, brilliant. Balve: yeah, I've always sort of use that analogy in terms of just just do it. Just you know, it's not going to be perfect. I've made my peace with that. It's not perfect. But as long as it's 70 to 80 percent good enough. just send out in the world, it's fine. Granger Forson: And the interesting thing about both those, your analogy, I was a swim coach. used to teach performance swimming to children between the ages of eight and 13. That was my age range within the club. And so I fully appreciate that. And also I've... managed software teams as well in my time and introduced agile software development and you know that just get it out there and test it and then really understand from your users. So yeah, right up my street, totally. So what does the business look like today in terms of size and shape? Balve: Yeah, so if you looked at companies house, it's just me. However, I do have a couple of freelancers working with me. So we've got some salespeople, we've got some tech guys, we've got marketing. So yes, we are looking hopefully in the future to hire our first full time person, which I'm already terrified about. because I don't want to give up control. So we're not even at the position yet, but I'm already scared about it. I'm sure that's a different conversation for another day. But yeah, so that's Granger Forson: Absolutely. Balve: where we're at at the moment. I guess what's the word? Solopreneur? Is that how say it? Solopreneur, Granger Forson: Soul Opener, yeah, yeah. Balve: yes. I guess that's me. If you look in the dictionary and find that word, you'll probably see a picture of my face. But yeah, Granger Forson: Yeah. Balve: solopreneur, that's what I would go for. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Well, when you're ready, know, the stronger business together, we, one of our principles that we built our business around is grow your people so that they grow your business. You know, so yeah, it's a very important step. You feel scared about it, but it's not, it's a fantastic step when you get it right and you understand what to Balve: Mm. Granger Forson: do. you know, you're helping your clients and your start, you've got a product out there. Give us some sort of customer success that you're proud of. Balve: That's a good question. I would say customer success that I'm proud of. This is going to sound such a founder question answer, but I'm proud of all of them. But, and I know you're going to push me Granger, because we've met before, you're going to push me for an answer. I would probably have to Granger Forson: Absolutely. Balve: say we reduced the one team, one hotel I'm thinking of in particular, we reduced their sort of time down. by 22.3 hours. We did some market research. We've got all the data in the back end of our system. So yeah, so it's just over 20 hours per week, which we reduce from the time taken away from the staff. It's So the time that the staff would have been using to answer those questions has been taken over by our system, which gives the team back some time to give those wow moments at a hotel, Granger Forson: Yeah. Balve: at a property, those moments that keep you coming back, the little bits, the little magic, as we say in our industry, that magic that keeps you coming back. So that's something I'm super proud of because when we first had our discovery call, you could tell the GM was a little bit stressed. So that's Granger Forson: Yeah. Balve: something I'm really proud of. I love people and I love having this idea and having this product that helps people in that way. So that's the bit that really fulfills me and that's the bit that really gets me up in the morning and excites me. So yeah, Granger Forson: Brilliant. Balve: so I think probably that's where we just have a 20 hours a week saved. which is an incredible amount of time. The amount of Granger Forson: Yeah. Balve: stuff you can do is amazing. Granger Forson: And what I love about your answer, those 22 hours, they're not used as... productivity savings. They're actually used to make the experience better for the customer because actually that's what then drives more return. People come back when they are loved the wow that you talked about. And I think that's absolutely powerful thing. People are using AI and thinking AI is about productivity and we're losing people from businesses because that's a lot of what the news is. But actually the people that are really getting the benefit from AI are using Balve: Yeah, I agree. Granger Forson: it to enhance their team to do amazing things for their customers which makes customers want to stay or come back and I think that's absolutely brilliant and your answer is just perfect for that. Fantastic. Balve: Yeah, I was going to, I was going to go and I think it's very, very easy being business, being a business owner to talk about money and talk about ROI. And I think it is important and that does it has, it has its time and place. I'm not denying that at all, but I think the time saved, I think that's a key metric that should be, that should be talked about more. Maybe you should do, do change that, change it on our mission that, you know, it's time saved. That is, you know, stress being caused by Granger Forson: Yeah, absolutely. No, absolutely. We still... Balve: a, a team. yeah. Granger Forson: Absolutely. Businesses always need a return on their investment, but it's what that return is. If it's return investment that is losing heads in businesses, then we're talking about replacing. Actually, there is a far greater benefit from AI when you really get inside the understanding of how to use it in businesses. I've been exploring that a lot with my clients and also been exploring it on this podcast, interestingly, recently as well. Brilliant. Well, let's move on a bit. Businesses need leads. turn into sales so how do you generate leads at the moment for your business? Balve: So I have probably tried every single outreach that you can think in. Whatever you or your listeners are thinking of in terms of outreach, I have probably tried it. But the two that has worked the most for us and the two that we've gone all in in is SEO and AEO. So in terms of our website, you should have seen our website when we first started, Granger. It was the worst. It's the worst thing ever. It looked like it was made in 1993. That's how bad it was. But now if you go on our website now, it looks a lot cleaner. looks it represents us as a brand. And I'm so, proud of it and so happy with it. So that's our first first sort of outreach sort of technique that we use. And the other is LinkedIn. So LinkedIn has been a massive success for us. We've really, really utilized that, especially my personal brands. We found that people don't really buy from businesses, people buy from people. So Granger Forson: Yeah. Balve: we've invested a lot in my personal brand and using that as a sort of lead generation machine. I love having conversations. I love talking to people. So it suited my personality down to a T. So we tried cold emails, didn't work. We tried cold phone calls, didn't work. It might have been... my messaging, it might have been what I was doing, more than happy to hold the hands out and say I did something wrong there. But for me, from my point of view, SEO, AO and LinkedIn has been our go-to. Granger Forson: That's fantastic. I interesting how you're being successful with LinkedIn because a lot of people over the last probably six to nine months have been pointing out across LinkedIn that it doesn't work anymore for reach out and for connecting with people to get that opportunity. I think with LinkedIn, people are probably doing it wrong. You know, they think they can go straight to a sale. actually, people, as you say, it's your brand, it's who you are. People are seeing you, engaging with you, and therefore they're interested in to engage further for what that means. So yeah, well done. Brilliant. Brilliant. And we all have to try Balve: Yeah, thank you so much. Granger Forson: lots of different things to make it work. And I could tell you a lot of stuff that we've done. this podcast is about you, not about me. So what are you aiming for in the business for the next 12 months and why? Balve: Next 12 months, we... So ideally hire that first person. I think that's a KPI for myself and the business. Again, a little bit apprehensive about that, but I love the, you know, helping to train someone or helping, you know, to make them better. I love that idea of sort of coaching and teaching. So I love that aspect. So we're looking forward to doing that. And then just increase our customer base really. We're sort of growing sort of every quarterly, which is brilliant. So the numbers are always, the graph is always going up. And as a founder, that's, that's always great. Looking at percentages every hour of the day. But yeah, I think that, I think those two, yeah, hire, hire our first person and keep sort of increasing our customer base and keep working with, with, with cool people. think, I think that's the reason. especially me, that's the reason I got into business is to work with cool people in cool places, doing cool stuff. So I think that's the ultimate goal. So we can travel around. I he's traveller. I love travelling. I think that's probably why I went back into the hospitality business. I want to travel, I want to see the world. I want to meet some cool people and do some cool stuff together. Granger Forson: Brilliant, love that, fantastic answer. It's not just about the money, it's about the journey, it's about finding those amazing people to have conversations with and help as well. So beautiful, love it. So let's move on to Act Two now, your journey as a business owner. Now, over the last few years, running a business, you get those highs and lows, things get tough. What have you discovered about yourself when things get tough? Balve: Granger, how long is this podcast? How long can we go on for? Granger Forson: And first time we met you actually did a fantastic presentation about this as well. Balve: I did. Yeah. So it was a humans event in Squareworks in Bristol. If you are in Bristol or any of the events that humans do, definitely get yourself down there. Ollie and Darro are really, Granger Forson: Very good. Balve: really cool people. yeah, I remember we, I think we connected on LinkedIn and I invited you down. said, I'm doing this Granger Forson: we did. Balve: talk. And then you turned up. was like, oh no. Granger Forson: Hahaha. Balve: I was like, this had to be said, you couldn't have. But the talk I did was on fear and how in my opinion, the best things, all the best things that I've ever done are on the other side of fear. But in terms of your question, Granger, what has it taught me? think it's taught me that I am more resilient than I thought I was. I genuinely thought I would give up after six months, but there's just something, you know, there's something in the back of your head where just keep going, Balve. Just keep going. You don't know where you're going, but just keep going. Go on, just one more day. Just keep going. And that's how it was for me, really. It was just another day that we would just take it every 24 hours for me. And that's how tough it was. And that's how, you know, it was that difficult. yeah, just be more resilient. think that's probably what I've, of the many, many things, to, how resilient I am. I think that's what I'd say. Granger Forson: Brilliant Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, we definitely need that and those those difficult times, you know, because being being a business owner is something very different. There's there's nothing like it in the world. Everybody else goes to jobs and gets paid for it, even though they may have difficult times and they may do long hours just like us. They don't quite have those ups and downs which we have all the time. We're just running a business, let alone the ups and downs in life. So yeah, being resilient and doing that. Fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. So at The Stronger Business Together, we believe one of our founding principles, another one, is making things simpler. So what have you done in your business life to make things simpler for yourself? Balve: okay. So this, I only done this the other day. So that's why I remember this. So we had, we had our like SOPs, we had our data, we had all this sort of stuff everywhere. And I'm talking like, like it was even on like pieces of paper randomly scattered around my flat. so we decided to have a single source of truth. So we decided to put, and that was so much work and I wish I'd done it at the beginning. because it just makes life so much easier. Because rather than me going to 10 different places, trying to find this one piece of information, I just go to one place now and it's so much, don't know. it's the old cliche, isn't it? You didn't know what you don't know. But I just wish I'd done that a lot earlier. And I'm already seeing the fruits of our labor where if I want something, it's all there. And we started to implement that with our freelancers already where this is... This is all the information. If you want something, this is where it's going to be. And all the up-to-date information is there. So you can have your own copies by all means and do anything what you want. But if I want the most up-to-date information, this is where it needs to be. And this is where I go. And it has to be there. I think, yeah, that's been a real eye-opener for me. Granger Forson: Yeah, a single point of truth is such a such an important thing the way Balve: Yeah. Granger Forson: you organize your files electronic files How you distribute them how you construct them I use them and an interesting now in the world of AI now We're talking about business brains So that single point of truth if you've got it digitally organized properly You can now tap your AI engines can tap into that and actually that brings that business knowledge into the AI Which you know up to then it couldn't do and else it's just copying everybody else. So I think such an important step so really well done. I love that very much. Over Balve: Yeah. Granger Forson: time you've already mentioned it, the product you went to market with initially, what's changed and evolved in your product and your go to market over the last few years? Balve: I think what's changed, I think the industry, not even us, I don't think it's I think, I like to say we've, we've, you know, sort of held the same values and hold held the same, you know, core principles. But I think our industry, the the sort of AI, hospitality, AI, especially, but here hospitality a little bit, AI has just moved so quickly. It's probably 10x since we probably started this conversation. So since our listener has Started started listening to us here on this podcast. It's probably 10x. It's probably dramatically changed and I used to I Just try and keep up with it and I was just going crazy. I was just It was so hard to keep up because every five minutes or something new and every five minutes there was this new thing or this new model or this new image generation and from chat GPT or open AI or Google or a throwpick or deeps wherever it might be there was just another product, another thing that you you supposedly, quote unquote, should know and should learn. Now, I'm still like that. I'm not gonna lie. But I think I'm a lot more, a lot more chilled, lot more, a lot more relaxed, shall we say. That's word I'd use. Yeah, a lot more relaxed about it. So I still love learning about it. I still like doing courses. I still like, you know, trying to be up to date. But I think I'm a lot more chilled out about it. So in terms of things that have changed and things that have, for us, we always try and use the latest model. So we plug and play into all the major LLMs that are out there. So if there is that one that comes out that we think might be better for us, we can change it, we can try it. If it works, great. If not, we can always revert back to the older, quote unquote, older sort of model. So I think I would say that the speed, The speed of change is just amazing. In my opinion, it's just incredible. Some people obviously worried about it, which is fair enough, is, you know, they have their rights to be a bit worried, a bit skeptical about artificial intelligence. But I think it's such a cool thing, and such cool new tech. I'm fascinated by it and all the developments that happening around it. Granger Forson: I agree that it is changing so fast. There are times when I and my partner, we sit there and go, we're behind, we're behind. But actually the reality Balve: Yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: is we're probably further ahead than most of my clients are using it massively. One of them is streets ahead of me. It's also not really that sort of worrying aspect of it because if you worry about it, then maybe we're worrying about the wrong thing. So maybe you're using AI wrong in the business if you're worrying about the next model and the next thing and are we being left behind? Is everyone overtaking us? Because actually we probably had that same thought about our businesses 10 years ago and probably had the same thing about our businesses 20 years ago. I think that still exists because that's the human mind. And actually, if you understand that, then you can take that, as you say, worry away around AI and actually start using it correctly and really starting to think about how to use it within your business. So Balve: Yeah. Granger Forson: let's talk a little bit about AI. Where have you used AI genuinely that saved you time and where is it also probably a distraction to you? Balve: Where it saved time, so when I, so I use Claude mostly, I use it as a sort of sparring partner. So when I have an idea, I use it for research. So that's been absolutely game changing for me. I've started to use it for travel, because I know chat GPT, I started to roll out. roll out sort the travel aspect of it, which is really interesting, especially in the space that I'm in. So that's been super, super useful. In terms of like LinkedIn posts and stuff like that, if I have an idea, I'll of sketch out and, you know, sort of write the bare bones and put it into ChatTvC and see where it can sort of improve. Then whatever it spits out, I then take it into Word and, you know, edit it. And I wouldn't use that word. I'll take that out. That's not, doesn't sound like me. So I'll take that out. So That's been really, really good. In terms of disruption, I would say... Disruption? That's a... Distraction, sorry. Granger Forson: Distract distraction. Where is it distracting you? are you sort of going down the rabbit hole and suddenly you've wasted a lot of time on something that wasn't relevant. Balve: Yeah, this can sound really, I don't know, like very productivity of me, but I don't think I do that. think I'm very conscious of time and I'm very conscious that time is the only thing you spend that you never get back. So get distracted. I don't think I do. I don't know if that's the answer you're looking for. Do I get distracted? Granger Forson: That's fine. That's brilliant. No, no, it's interesting Balve: I think probably once we finish recording, I'll be like, oh, that's the thing I do. Maybe you have to ask the people around me. That might be a better question. Should we get everyone in? See what Granger Forson: Yeah. Balve: they say. I think I'm perfect, obviously. But Granger Forson: That's Balve: I don't think I do. I'm trying to be super critical here. Yeah. Granger Forson: But what's interesting in your answer though is the fact that you said you're conscious about time, you're conscious about that once it's gone it's lost. Yes, you already Balve: Yeah. Granger Forson: have that sort of bit more productive mindset where I find a lot of people don't even have start from that as a base point. So therefore they will get distracted on doom scrolling and now they're moving into getting distracted by AI and chasing the latest AI models, et cetera. yeah. Balve: Yeah, and do you know what it is? So in about two months, I'm turning 40 and I have no idea where that time's gone. I blinked. I was 21, right, Granger? This is exactly what happened, right? I was 21 in a nightclub enjoying my life. I blinked and I'm nearly 40. How did that happen? I don't know. So I need an answer here, Granger. I don't know how it happened. So I think that's been Granger Forson: Hahaha. Balve: playing on my mind. quite a lot. it's, yeah, it is interesting. Yeah. Granger Forson: Interesting, that's quite a philosophical question. I use the expression at work of being the whirlwind and also there's the whirlwind of life as well. It happens very fast. Moving on, continue with AI. When to you is it important to keep the human in judgment and not just trust AI? Balve: Yeah, so although the tech, like I said earlier, was moving so quickly, and that's a good thing, in my opinion, I think it still does need that human that you mentioned, that human in the loop. So there are models at the moment that can control your computer. So you can tell it, go and book me a flight to Berlin in three days time. This is the time I want to go. This is my budget. And then will just go off and do it for you. I think that's where I'm a bit cautious and that's the bit where I'm a bit, let's just hold back, let's just take a step back in that sort of sense. Fully autonomous and fully agentic AI is getting there. It's getting super, super, super close. AGI is, we're getting closer and closer every day. And that's the sort of bit where, for a person who owns a tech company, for a person who owns AI companies, it's a bit skeptical. So we always have escalation in our processes. So if a guest wants a human, a member of the team, they'll get one. So. all the mundane and boring questions that our system can handle. It'll answer for them no problem whatsoever. But if there is a more complex task, if there is a task where it's a bit more sensitive, if there is a task where our guest wants a human, that's what they'll get. So we've baked into our system that sort of layer, that layer of protection where we have sort of got that sort of system in place to to escalate as and when it's needed. Granger Forson: I Yes, fantastic. I still think there's at least 20 % in any process is still the human element of it, even if it's just bringing your own focus and difference to it. you know, because all AI in theory is a statistical model. So you're just getting the statistical average of everything that was ever written about whatever you're Balve: Yeah. Granger Forson: asking it. So bringing that extra 20 % of your own self into it brings that. So and cautionary. Yeah, I would let it book a flight for me either. Definitely. Balve: Not just Granger Forson: definitely not just yeah absolutely Balve: yet, maybe tomorrow, but not today. Granger Forson: yeah there's there's still a long trust level because we're still we're still in that early stage I mean it's still only what four years old as a technology yeah Balve: Peace. Granger Forson: you know the internet was around for what something like 10 years before it really started taking off you know something like that you know maybe even a little bit longer so yeah we've still got a long way to go on the understanding curve of this stuff so moving back to business Balve: Do you think AI should be regulated, Granger? Granger Forson: it be regulated? Great question. I've not really thought about that. I don't know how to answer that one. Maybe I'm pausing because there are some aspects that we don't know what the answers are yet and we won't know the answers without experimenting but how do you experiment in a safe way? Balve: In a sandbox, yeah. Granger Forson: within any environment, not just in a sandbox, but just within a day-to-day life environment as well. My background is in continuous improvement. things better all the time. We start with safety. Can I make it safer for myself and the safer way of working? If it ticks those boxes and it's quality, can I make it better for my client? Can I make it better for me? Then it's about simplicity. Can I make it easier? Then it's about speed. How do I speed it up? How do I automate it? If you follow that that guideline using AI you'd be in exactly the same situation of actually thinking about how to improve processes using AI rather than speeding everything up which is the last thing the automation part which is the last element of it so so yeah not direct answer to your question but yeah something maybe to really think about because there are some aspects out there we've to be very careful about because you Balve: Yeah. There is, yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: know we don't really want to give it the ability to fire nuclear weapons otherwise we will end up like Terminator anyway Skynet yeah Balve: Is it Skynet, not Starlink? Yeah, what is it? Skynet, I was about to say Starlink. That's completely different. Yeah, Skynet, yeah, there we go. Granger Forson: So let's go back to business now. There are times when things get really busy and there's a lot to get done. How do you focus on making sure the business stays on the really important things when things get busy? Balve: think prioritization, I think that's super important. So I always have a rag, a rag list, a red, amber, green. So if it's red, needs to be done, needs to be done. No matter what happens if it's amber, it needs to be done still, but I can I can come back to and then green that can I can I can put that off for a certain, certain amount of time, my green list is getting longer and longer. So maybe I need to put some into the amber or the red. So yeah, it's always difficult, isn't it? Because you never know. Hindsight is a great thing. You never know until you're looking back that I probably should have focused on that a little bit more. But that's the life we've chosen, isn't it? That's the life that we're leading. So yeah, that's always difficult on where certain tasks. What's going to push a needle? Am I working? on the business or I'm working in the business? That's another question that I always, always ask myself. So I try and have one day, maybe every 10 days or so where I'm working, you know, to try to push the needle and trying to make sure the business is going forwards. But it is difficult as we're getting busier and busier, it is getting a lot more difficult to do that. So it's a good question Granger Forson: Mmm. Balve: in terms of those decisions. But yeah, but I think what's working well at the moment is the RAG, for the RAG method. Notion is one of my best friends. I use Notion so, so much. People, my friends and family around me think that I work for Notion, the amount of times I've recommended it and told people to use it, that I speak about it so much. So Notion on my calendar keeps me sane. If it wasn't for my calendar, I probably wouldn't have turned up to this podcast. I'd be walking around Bristol going, I don't know where I am. I don't know what I'm doing. So it definitely keeps me in check. So yeah, so I'll say Notion Granger Forson: Fantastic. Balve: and my calendar. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Yeah, no, that's fantastic. Really good. I'm a digital person. I have a digital task list. I use the Apple Reminder system. But we also don't use emails within the business. We have an internal policy of no emails. We use task management. We use communications through WhatsApp and use voice notes, etc. So we're very focused on doing things like that. So brilliant. Let's move on to the hurdle now. Let's say act three. So what have you brought with today for us to have a conversation about? Balve: So there's a few things I could probably use your help on Granger, but I'm super conscious of your time. Super conscious of my time. And I think this will resonate to anybody listening, but it will be sales, I think. the sort of road I like to go down, specifically closing. think we Granger Forson: Okay. Balve: have, is trouble the right word? Yeah, I'm go with trouble. with closing clients. had, we've built up a great rapport. We build up, know, our solution solves their problem. All great, but when it comes to closing, there seems to be a disconnect there. So I think Granger Forson: Mmm. Yes. Balve: I would like to go for that as a hurdle. Granger Forson: Excellent. I know it well. been through Balve: Hahaha! Granger Forson: the journey myself, but also I've done a lot of learning and lot of debate with my clients and helping them really think about this. So, okay. So let's start off first of all. So we're talking about closing of the process, but let's start with what I call the starting condition, where we are today. So describe to me your sales process from when you get a lead, which is a on-target lead and the steps that you go through. Balve: So as I mentioned earlier, we're using two main types of outreach. Granger Forson: Yep. Balve: If it's SEO, AEO, they will fill out a message or a form on our website. It will come through to the team. We will then have a bit of email back and forth trying to qualify, trying to qualify the potential client. If they are a go, great, we'll try and get them onto the discovery call. If not, we've got some resources. we've got like a readiness score, we've got an ebook and all that sort of stuff that we can send them. So when they are ready to buy, we can we can sort of hit go on that. If they come through my LinkedIn, I spend about 30 minutes every day where I comment on people's posts in the last 24 hours, I found there's not many, especially in the in the sort of people that I'm sort of targeting, there's not many comments, there's likes and celebrations and love all that sort of stuff. But in terms of comments, there's not many comments. So that's where we're trying to go in. Once they have either responded to that comment or like that comment, I will then go on their profile so they can see I view their profile and connect with them. Once that connection has been made, I will then message them. I'll DM them talking about the post that I commented on. So something about that. So I'm not, I used to go straight into the cell. which is not the right way to do it. So if anyone's listening, not do do not do not do that. Granger Forson: good. Yep, totally agree. Absolutely. our DM box is full of people that come in with a sales and the first thing you think, right, I'm not following you anymore, goodbye. Stop doing it. Balve: Same, exactly the same. Yeah, exactly, 100 % something. Yeah, if you're doing it now, please stop, please stop. From myself Granger Forson: Yeah. Balve: and Granger, please, please stop. So yeah, so just start a conversation. So again, just trying to pick out bits of information about them, some of their property, there's any challenges, if anything like that. If they're not suited for us, that's fine, that's okay. They're still connection. Again, love talking to people, so that's not an issue. And if they are qualified, that's what I try and get them onto a call and go through the process that I mentioned earlier in terms of Granger Forson: Okay. Balve: AEO and SEO. Granger Forson: So I just want to tease just something first. This ebook, thing, what's the ebook, the value add that you'll give into them on that? Balve: Yeah, so it's, I say ebook is more like an e-leaflet. If I'm being brutally honest with you, it's just going through some facts and figures. So the data that we have from our clients that we've got on the backend system. So we can say on in Q3 or Q4, we've saved this hotel this amount of time, saved them this amount of money. And then just going through all the data and making it look nice. So there's lots of sort of pie graphs, bar graphs Granger Forson: Okay, yeah. Balve: in terms of that. Granger Forson: I would just caution that because that's almost like a cell. What you want Balve: Okay. Granger Forson: to do is you want to add value to them. What's their most problematic problem in their industry, in the hotelier industry or whatever that they are having today may have nothing to do with your service and your activity and give them some really powerful advice of how to overcome with it because they want to be able to go, well, these guys understand our industry and they're really helpful. So don't sell in that initial condition and that's what you're doing. that real massive help to them and then follow up to say did you find that useful you know and and build that know like and trust before you get to that sales process so those are the warmer people for that okay so you now got a discovery call take me through the discovery what's the discovery process I like your qualification that's important but we'll come to that in a moment so discovery Balve: Yeah, Discover the Call. So that is probably the first time we've met face to face. I try and do videos on Granger Forson: Okay. Balve: LinkedIn so they sort of know how I look on camera, how I talk and Granger Forson: Yep. Balve: all that sort of stuff. And that leans into the know, know and trust part of that process that you mentioned earlier. I usually go through questions on their guest communications on how that's working at the moment, try and really, really pinpoint their sort of problems. I also show them a demo. So we've made a fake London hotel and we've made a system Granger Forson: Yeah. Balve: around that fake London hotel. So rather than I share my screen, so rather than I type in the questions, I get them to ask the questions. So what's the question that you get asked the most? So you can see in real time how the system works and with the question that they thought of. So Granger Forson: Okay. Balve: that's basically on our discovery call how I do it. Granger Forson: Okay, excellent. Then what happens? Balve: Either so I tried to close on the first call I Was having difficulty difficulty with that so I stopped doing that and I tried to close on the second call so after the First discovery call is done. I will give them access to that demo so they could play around with in their own time Use as many questions that they want to ask any questions they want to and then they could play around it with how they want to alternatively We also make beta versions of their hotel, of their property, Granger Forson: Right. Balve: so they can ask their own questions, which they know the answers to. They can ask it. It's not as good as our sort premium product, but it's good enough to get a feel and sort of a, you know, yeah, a sort of feel of how it works and how it sort of interacts with the guests. I will set up a second meeting about three or four days later. And that's when I will... Try and get the feedback, see what they thought, and that's when I would close. Granger Forson: Okay, and within your process, have you got an understanding of the typical types of blockers that will come out when you make the offer? Balve: Yeah, we've had budget is one, not enough time is another. Granger Forson: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Balve: AI is going to take our job is another, which is completely, completely Granger Forson: Yep, another. Balve: not the case. You're trying to take away staff time, impersonal as well. Is that going to be the tone of the hotel? Granger Forson: Yep. Yep. Balve: They're just a few off the top of my head. There's a couple, there's quite a few there. But yeah, they're the sort of few we've got. Granger Forson: Okay, so from the people that come to the discovery call, have the first or second call, what's your percentage of closing? Balve: I would say. Probably 10. So if you have 100 calls, yeah, maybe 10 possibly. Yeah, I would say maybe, I don't know. I need Granger Forson: 10 % okay okay Balve: to check the data on that. if you had Granger Forson: Right. Balve: to push the ring range, I would say yeah, about 10%. Granger Forson: Okay, so the very first thing that you have to track, okay, there are two things in sales and marketing that are most important thing. The first one is the number of leads that are on target that are turning up, okay, whether that's a weekly number, a daily number, a monthly number, tracking that number, I'll do it weekly, is your fundamental first thing that you need to do. The second thing you must do is out of those on target, okay, because some are leads, Because you talked about not everybody then moves to your discovery call So people that move to your discovery call are on target leads. Okay, because you've done some pre-qualification with them Okay, so they're on target. What's your conversion rate? Okay, so you need to understand your conversion rate from that Okay, so those two numbers are really really important So number of leads maybe want to segregate those between on target and just general leads and then the conversion rate of those on target leads So first of all, let's just sort of talk through your process. You may have this stuff in there but let's talk it through. So the first thing is your pre-qualification. So you only want to be talking to those people that are interested in your product. are interested in solving the problem. So within the marketing structure, we talk about 50 % of the marketplace, your target marketplace, don't understand they have a problem. Then the next sort 30 % sort of know they have a problem. So it's only 20 % that actually are looking for a solution and only 3%, so 17 and 3, are people that actually will buy now. So those bottom 3%, the people you just win. So that's just luck. You've just met those people and they will buy. It's the 17 % that you need to be able to nurture. They know they have you the problem and they're looking for some sort of solution. They don't know the solution is your AI product. They just know that they are suffering in the words the pain point and they're the people you want to pre-qualify. So the people that are turning up, first of all, do they actually have these issues? Are they wasting time? Are they frustrated by this? they, you know, whatever they are? Okay, and do they have the budget? And are they looking for a solution? And asking people upfront before you even show them your product, so you can do that in your questionnaire process or you can just do it at the beginning of the call. And just say, hi, love it, really looking forward to having this conversation today with you etc. But just before we do, I don't want to waste your time and waste my time. Yeah, let's just have a quick conversation. about the problems you're having. Do you suffer from this, this and this? Is this happening in business? Are you actually looking to solve this within the next few months within your business? Do you want these type of results? And if they say no, you say thank you very much, love this conversation and suddenly a half an hour, even an hour sales conversation has gone in 10 minutes and you've got more time in your diary to go and find people that actually want your service. So pre-qualification is probably one of first step is you maybe you're not doing enough understanding these people where they are. the next part of that is then you're then reconfirming them and their problem. We call it the pain points etc. And you've said you've got lots of questions to tease those out. That's brilliant. And you're then reconfirming those and then you're having these stages. So they're sort of the next step stages in your conversation. So those are literally, and this is something I've learned, is to say Brilliant. This is where we are in this conversation so far. Out of 10, 10 being let's move on and understand my product and service, five being sort of interested but want to know why this would be really beneficial for me, one being not interested. Thank you very much. I've really enjoyed the conversation today. Where are you? you're now getting a point in their thing. Where are they? Because if there are seven you know you've got an opportunity to try and get them to a ten. If there are five then maybe it's just a okay here's a fantastic e-book when you're ready to solve this problem come back to us. If there are one shake hands brilliant the purpose of a sale is to make somebody make a decision. The decision you've made today is absolutely brilliant this isn't the time and the right place for you. Thank you very much. I'm being positive around that but if there are ten you then go on to the next stage you're saying Well, let us show you how we save this time for you. Let us show you how you can use that time to be more beneficial. And in that step, that second part of the conversation, where they've agreed to move on, is you then bring in a lot of those blockers. So you say things like, I'm just wax lyrical in here, but you know, people tell us that actually AI isn't personal enough. Well, actually, we design a system to be X, Y and Z, and it's so personal to you that they will not not know the difference between your business brand will be so clear, they'll be understanding. And this is how we do it. People tell us that they can't afford this. So here's some analysis that we've done that show that the benefit and the cost payment benefit. People tell us they haven't got the time to implement it. Well, actually, this is how we overcome the time barrier and implement it for you. And this is the onboarding process and everything else. OK, now let me show you some of the functionality and how it works and the simplicity. of it etc. And at that point you've now shown it to them and then you stop and you say where are we? You 10 being you'd love to move on and know what the price is. 5 being well I'm not sure about this let's have some further conversation. 1 being thank you very much no it really isn't right for me. So again you've brought in these steps where you're then doing that and then you make them the offer okay because they've said a 10 and you go fantastic here's the price this is what happens this is what happens next when you say yes Okay? And then you wait. And you literally go quiet. When you make the offer you then don't say anything and you wait for them to make a decision. Okay, and then you can then see what blockers they'll come back saying well there wasn't enough time on that or there wasn't enough this and you can then circle back and with blocker management you always acknowledge their problem. So you say Hmm interesting. I totally agree with you. I understand about not enough time Lots of our clients tell us that when they first start I can fully appreciate that but what we want and how we help you overcome that is we do X Y and Z and we know that's really successful because our clients have told us that so you never push back against them and say, no, it's really easy to implement. You always acknowledge their block, you always learn with them on that block and then you then move it forwards with the conversation. And then right at the end you then say, where are we? Are we at a 10? Are we ready to buy? Are we at a 5 where you need to know more? Or are we at a 1 this really isn't right for you and we've had a fantastic conversation? So how does that fit with what you currently do? Any thoughts or ideas? Balve: Yeah, no, that's, I was just sitting there, I've made so many notes. It's amazing, I love this. Granger Forson: Ha ha ha ha. Balve: So in an, and I don't want to say nutshell because what you gave there was such good value, but you're almost, you're almost answering their question before they ask the question, aren't you? Would that be fair to say? Granger Forson: Yes, and initially that's what you're trying to do. Absolutely. You're trying to build that structure into it. But you're also giving them the opt-outs. That's the purpose of that score between one and five. You do one and five. It doesn't really matter. But you're giving them the opt-outs. They feel in control of the conversation. Let's be honest. They're not in control of the conversation because we've scripted it. We've organized it. We know exactly what we're doing. but they feel in control, have that point where they can pull out, they can ask more questions, they can understand because they need to feel in control about the whole structure of it even though you have designed it to get 30-40 % of them to say yes at the end. Balve: That's awesome, Granger. Thank you so much. Granger Forson: Yeah, some really good thoughts there. And there's some other little tricks in there. When you get to the end and you're going to make the offer or whatever, at any point, use the word, what do you think about that? Not the words, what do you feel about that? Because feeling drives emotion. While people buy with emotion and justify with logic, within a sales conversation, you want to move to the logical brain as fast as you can. So use the word, like, what do you think about that? What are you thinking at this moment in time, rather than using feeling words? That's, again, another structure to what think of. And then at the end then they're either yes or no. If they need to go away and think about it again you can bring those type of statements into your before your pitch where you can say, interestingly, you know, we have a number of people that take a bit of time to think about it. OK, the reason why they do that often is because they're not the budget holder or they they need to go and get permission or they they don't know about the money. So you ask those questions right back at the beginning before you do your first one to ten so you've actually qualified them as they are the right person to make the decision. They do potentially have the money to be able to move forwards with it and that they are ready to have a conversation to explore it. It doesn't mean they're still going to buy but you've started to nail those things down for them and if they then say I actually know I need my business partner here I need the finance director to sign it off you go brilliant love that okay shall we carry on with this conversation now are you at a ten or shall we park it and let's set up a meeting where your finance director can be here at the same time. So again they feel they're in control even though you are managing the situation to get them towards either a yes or a no. Because the most important thing about a sales conversation is this. It's about getting somebody to decide. That could be a yes, that could be a no. The worst decision is no decision. Oh I need to go and think about it. that's what we need to do. So at the very end or at any point we use a thing called BAMFAM book a meeting from a meeting always book the next meeting in their diary to help move the sales conversation forwards. Balve: Yeah, I've been guilty of not doing that, which I've been told to do to make sure the next meeting is already in the diary. yes, I'm glad you've sort of reinforced that for me, Granger, so I appreciate that. Granger Forson: Brilliant. So based on those thoughts, what experiment would you go and do tomorrow within your sales activity? Balve: I think I will 100 % find out the top 10 sort of FAQs, the top 10 blockers that we have, get them down. And also write an answer to them as well. So that will be really, really useful. And the other thing is the thing you've just said, make sure, is it BamFam you said? Book another meeting from another meeting. So yeah, I definitely do that. I've been super guilty of not doing that and just leaving it all up in the air, which is the wrong thing to do. acknowledge and hold my hands up to that. So yes, I think those are the two main tasks from this podcast. Granger Forson: Brilliant, super. And as soon as you can, try and get in that sort one to 10 question into your sales conversation because you're giving them the control rather than yourself. So awesome. Brilliant. Well, let's go to our wrap up and close now. What did you say today that maybe surprised you? Balve: something I said today that surprised me. I wasn't expecting to bring up my single source of truth. Because it's very boring, let's be honest. It's a back end. It's not sexy in any way. But I'm super proud of it. I was not expecting to bring up my CRM system and the back end is single source of truth. So I'll say that. So when I woke up this morning, wasn't expecting, because I've tried to tell people that and they won't listen to me. So I'm glad you're here, Granger. So yeah, I'd say that. think that's probably the most thing I've, I wasn't expecting to share that piece of information today. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Thank you for your honesty. And finally, Balf, how can people find out more about you and follow your journey more? Balve: Yeah, so there's two ways our website so you can go to our website so purplesquareai.com if you type that in that you will be able to find us and also my LinkedIn as well so ValveBains Balve is B-A-L-V-E and then Bains is B-A-I-N-S I think and I'm happy to be corrected I think I'm the only ValveBains like Granger it's quite a unusual let's say let's use the word unusual name so I should be the only ValveBains out there, but I'm sure you'll be able to find me through the website anyway. So yeah, thank you so much. Granger Forson: Awesome. Al, thank you so much for being open on us today. I know our listeners will get a lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Balve: No, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. I love what you're doing, Granger. I love meeting you in person whenever that was a few weeks ago. And it's been difficult for as a presenter not to ask this question. So you've been amazing. And thank you for looking after me. Granger Forson: Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation has helped you, please like, follow and comment on whatever platform you're using. Around 60 % of our audience hasn't done this yet and these small actions will help us reach more business owners just like you. If you'd like to join in the conversation as a guest or if you have a hurdle question for us to tackle at a future episode, do reach out to us at info at strongerbusinesstogether.com. Now. Go make this week really successful and we'll see you next time. Cheers!