Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / How to Build a Personal Brand on LinkedIn With Jared Gibson

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How to Build a Personal Brand on LinkedIn With Jared Gibson · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

• 0:00
  What do you mean the ego is the enemy when creating content for
• 0:02
  personal brands. So if you.
• 0:03
  Take it personal that you believe that your content is so
• 0:07
  good. You're going to grow to hate
• 0:09
  everything about what you're doing.
• 0:11
  You're not going to enjoy creating content.
• 0:13
  Stop creating so much content and start being the content.
• 0:18
  I am the content, right? What's the mindset going on
• 0:21
  where you're scared to do it and you're not wanting to get on
• 0:24
  camera? I'm going to say the wrong
• 0:25
  thing. I'm going to get judged.
• 0:27
  If you were to boil it all down, though, what do you think it
• 0:29
  comes down to? Like all those fears and all
• 0:31
  those. I think so.
• 0:34
  Jared Gibson, Co founder of Outworks.
• 0:37
  And that's how you are founder of Gibson Sales Foundation.
• 0:39
  Is that a company you're still running or?
• 0:41
  That was a that was AI left my job.
• 0:44
  I need to figure out what the hell I'm going to do.
• 0:45
  So I'm just going to do this until I figure it out because.
• 0:48
  You knew sales and you trained other sales people.
• 0:49
  Yeah, so that's funny. That's what I got into right
• 0:51
  after. So I was working for a corporate
• 0:53
  job for six years doing staffing sales, was pretty good at sales
• 0:56
  and teaching other people how to sell at my company.
• 0:59
  And I was like, I want to start my own business being
• 1:01
  entrepreneur, like just try it out.
• 1:02
  You know, it's 2019. I was like, I want to give this
• 1:04
  thing a shot. And I thought, I guess I'll do
• 1:06
  sales coaching and training because that's kind of what I
• 1:08
  know, you know, And then I started posting on LinkedIn,
• 1:10
  which is what we're, a lot of what we're going to talk about
• 1:12
  today is, is LinkedIn and marketing.
• 1:13
  But I started posting content on LinkedIn in 2019 and dude, for
• 1:17
  the first time, and you can relate to this because you're in
• 1:19
  sales. For the first time, customers
• 1:21
  actually came to me. And instead of being the hunter
• 1:24
  every single day, which is exhausting, I was finally the
• 1:27
  hunted. And so that was putting out
• 1:29
  video content, building a personal brand on LinkedIn and
• 1:32
  getting people to go, hey, I saw your video on this.
• 1:34
  I saw your post on this. I'd like to inquire more about
• 1:36
  this. How do you work with companies
• 1:37
  like this? And that to me was just like a
• 1:39
  man, that was an unlock. That was a big moment.
• 1:42
  For sure. I mean, it's I didn't start
• 1:44
  actively posting until we started out works, which was
• 1:48
  2022. I had sporadically sprayed here
• 1:51
  and there. Like, you know, I like to if I
• 1:53
  see something I think's funny and could get a laugh, like I'll
• 1:56
  throw that out there. But I started the Gibson sales
• 2:00
  foundations. I started it was like around for
• 2:01
  a few days and then it was just because I worked with a lot of
• 2:04
  or I, I have a strong entrepreneur network in Chicago,
• 2:09
  the company I used to be with. We were a sponsor of a group
• 2:12
  called EO in Chicago entrepreneurs Organization.
• 2:15
  So I was around a lot of founders of businesses, and I
• 2:19
  kept seeing the same thing over and over again, where the
• 2:22
  founders would just go to hire their first salesperson, and
• 2:25
  that salesperson would fail miserably because there's no
• 2:27
  foundation built. Right.
• 2:29
  Right. So they were setting these sales
• 2:31
  people. Yeah, exactly.
• 2:32
  It's like, well, he hasn't sold anything in the first three
• 2:34
  months. It's like, well, what?
• 2:36
  What did you give him? Like what?
• 2:37
  What did when he came in, what did you expect him to do?
• 2:39
  So the premise behind that was to help these founders build
• 2:42
  this foundation to prep them to the point where they could go
• 2:46
  out then and hire somebody that could be successful.
• 2:49
  And you know, it lasted maybe 2 weeks and then I started out
• 2:52
  works with two other Co founders and the rest of the history
• 2:55
  from. There.
• 2:55
  What made you want to get out of that and move into out works?
• 2:57
  I'm curious. You know, some of it was
• 3:00
  insecurities on my part because the thought of starting my own
• 3:06
  business and just being solo, I knew I could do it because of
• 3:09
  the network that I had built. And I think that somebody who
• 3:12
  you may have talked to before, Carl Hughes told me, if you
• 3:15
  start a business, make sure you can get your first million from
• 3:19
  your network. Like that was his thing.
• 3:21
  He's like if you go out and do something, regardless of what it
• 3:23
  is, make sure you're you're able to tap into your network for
• 3:27
  that first million in revenue so that.
• 3:29
  I did not do that. Yeah, no, I didn't.
• 3:31
  Well, I try it's. Harder when you don't, for sure,
• 3:34
  yeah. I'm trying to still, I think
• 3:36
  we're, we're, I mean, we're getting close.
• 3:38
  But so that was like a little bit scary to me because it was
• 3:42
  so I'd always work for somebody in the past.
• 3:45
  And the opportunity presented itself when two guys that I used
• 3:50
  to work with, one of them, I was his VP of sales.
• 3:54
  You know, I connected with him and I was like, hey, this is
• 3:56
  what I'm doing. He's like, well, well, this is
• 3:58
  what Kelly and I are doing. Kelly was at the time when I was
• 4:01
  the VP of Sales. Kelly was the head of UX UI
• 4:03
  design. We're starting this kind of
• 4:05
  growth marketing agency. We didn't know 100% what we
• 4:08
  wanted it to be, but the thought of being able to team up with
• 4:10
  those two guys again, yeah, was exciting.
• 4:12
  And Brandon has exited a few companies already, so he's kind
• 4:16
  of been there, done that. So it was a comfortability move.
• 4:22
  It was, it was a comfortable move for me to do it.
• 4:25
  You know, nothing can prepare you.
• 4:27
  No, definitely. Like we say, like we're in
• 4:29
  sales. So it's like we're always on a
• 4:31
  roller coaster. We don't know.
• 4:33
  Yeah. And that.
• 4:34
  Helps for sure. Oh, definitely.
• 4:35
  If you come from sales and then go start a business, yeah,
• 4:38
  that's the best. It helps the best path you can
• 4:39
  take. Mindset it helps like.
• 4:41
  You got to hunt, you got to go out there and find.
• 4:43
  Something go out like you could have the worst week ever, but
• 4:45
  you know, because your background in sales that like
• 4:48
  you're about ready to just throw it all away and then Friday
• 4:50
  something good happens and you're like there it is.
• 4:52
  Yep. So how would you describe just
• 4:54
  for the for the audience and then we're getting to some
• 4:56
  LinkedIn stuff outworks, how would you describe what you guys
• 4:59
  do there in maybe a sentence or two or less?
• 5:01
  Yeah, we help founders and executives build their personal
• 5:06
  brand through consistent, high quality content.
• 5:09
  Got it. And it's mostly on LinkedIn, is
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  that right? Mostly on LinkedIn, we are a lot
• 5:14
  of the content that we're helping create and you can
• 5:16
  attest to this. We encourage our clients to use
• 5:20
  cross channel, like show up as many places as you can.
• 5:25
  But LinkedIn right now is what we know, you know we're starting
• 5:27
  to do. More newsletters, blogs dapping
• 5:33
  into YouTube a little bit more. There's just so much opportunity
• 5:36
  out there. Like in LinkedIn.
• 5:40
  It is what it is today. Let's talk about it, because
• 5:43
  LinkedIn has changed, yes, and. To me, I don't think it's for
• 5:47
  the better recently. Now this, this might turn
• 5:49
  around, but if you just look at the stats, man, like 12 months
• 5:52
  ago from where we're at today, 12 months ago, we were getting
• 5:55
  millions of impressions a week and now it's like 10s of
• 5:57
  thousands. And that's not just us, that's
• 5:59
  across the board, that's with clients now.
• 6:01
  There's definitely outliers and there's definitely like
• 6:03
  opportunities to still hit a great post that does well and go
• 6:06
  viral. You can win clients there.
• 6:08
  It's still a great platform. There's no doubt about it,
• 6:10
  especially for B to B, no question, But it has
• 6:14
  dramatically changed. What is your perspective on
• 6:16
  what's happened on LinkedIn the past 12 months?
• 6:19
  So I I have a love hate relationship with the platform.
• 6:25
  Like right, it's, it is the B to B platform.
• 6:28
  It is where people are like if you look at the metrics across
• 6:30
  the board for it, like. There's literally no other
• 6:32
  platform that is B to BI mean, you know.
• 6:34
  And you got the the younger generation of workers, like I
• 6:37
  think the average B to B buyer is 36 years old.
• 6:40
  Yeah, the, the top two age groups on LinkedIn are 18 to 30.
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  So it's like you have to be there.
• 6:45
  You have to show up. The problem is is that, and I
• 6:49
  heard you talk to Jason Van a little bit about like what like
• 6:53
  what to look for and all these these content and you have to
• 6:56
  put your ego aside, especially today.
• 6:58
  And I know you guys talked about that like ego is the enemy when
• 7:01
  you're creating personal content because and that's why most
• 7:05
  people stop doing it like they quit.
• 7:07
  They claim it's not working whatever it is and it's like you
• 7:09
  don't give it enough time because it compounds overtime,
• 7:12
  but that this new video feed like.
• 7:15
  Let me let me stop you on the ego thing first.
• 7:16
  What do you mean the ego is the enemy when creating content for
• 7:19
  personal? Brands.
• 7:19
  So if you take it personal that you believe that your content is
• 7:24
  so good that you should be getting more impressions or more
• 7:26
  engagement with your vanity metrics anyway, and you're,
• 7:30
  you're going to grow to hate everything about what you're
• 7:33
  doing. You're not going to enjoy what
• 7:35
  you're doing. You're not going to enjoy
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  creating content. Because if you get a post that
• 7:39
  gets 4 likes and 200 impressions, right, it's like,
• 7:44
  well, this sucks, it's not working.
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  It's very, I don't know if you golf, it's very similar to golf
• 7:49
  for me. No, not really.
• 7:50
  Yeah. So golf is like, you could just
• 7:53
  be playing like such shit and shanking balls, losing balls.
• 7:56
  And it's like, these are the I'm equating that to like your
• 7:57
  posts, but you have one good shot, right?
• 8:01
  And that's like the thing about golf, like that's the one that
• 8:03
  keeps you coming back every single time.
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  And it's very, it's very similar.
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  So yeah. So you have to put your ego
• 8:10
  aside and I would agree because if you don't, especially in the
• 8:12
  beginning, if you're not as good and you don't have a, you know,
• 8:14
  helper coaching and stuff, you're probably not going to do
• 8:17
  as well. And it's, it's sometimes tough
• 8:19
  because it's like, it's the public telling you like you
• 8:21
  suck, dude, like over and over again.
• 8:23
  Nope, still suck, still suck. Yeah, still suck. 7 posts.
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  I was 7 posts in the LinkedIn and I think, I think my first, I
• 8:29
  don't know the exact 1st 7 posts, but it was like my out of
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  my first 27 of them in a row. This is 2019.
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  Did 0 comments and 0 likes. It's like the public was just
• 8:39
  like you suck, we don't want yourself, we don't want to hear
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  from you and it's like you got to be able to shake that off and
• 8:43
  keep coming. How do I get better from this?
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  What? Why did I not, why did this not
• 8:47
  do well? What am I not doing on the
• 8:48
  platform that I should be to take advantage of the
• 8:50
  opportunity, you know? I think that's the key there,
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  because by default I think a lot of people will blame the
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  algorithms for the algorithm whatever for their posts not
• 9:01
  performing right. It's external factors in general
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  in life, it's just. Like it's this, it's that, it's
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  never me. I mean, listen, I know that I
• 9:09
  create a lot of shitty posts. Like they are bad.
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  I look at them like, OK, that makes sense.
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  Why, right. You know, every once in a while
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  I'll get a good one that I think is going to be good and it
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  doesn't perform how I want it to.
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  And then the shitty, sometimes the shitty ones perform like, I
• 9:23
  don't know, I don't even like, you throw your hands up and
• 9:25
  you're like, how did that perform?
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  And this one didn't. So it's, it's interesting
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  dynamic with the content and how it works.
• 9:32
  I think that the thing that bugs me the most is that there isn't
• 9:36
  link. There's no consistency with
• 9:38
  LinkedIn itself, the algorithm, there's no like, think about
• 9:41
  what they did with the this new TikTok video feature that they
• 9:44
  put out, like. Which was about a year and a
• 9:47
  half ago now. I mean, it's been a.
• 9:48
  While, yeah, it was cool, like I thought when it first came out,
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  I'm like, OK, we'll give this a shot and see what happens.
• 9:52
  Impressions were through the. Roof yeah.
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  And then they just overnight just shut it down and like
• 9:57
  they're without any warning, nothing like people were
• 9:59
  getting. I mean, I was getting probably
• 10:01
  the most reach on any of any content by far with the video
• 10:04
  when I first started doing it. And it was like, it's a whole
• 10:08
  separate conversation about like outside of comfort zone for me
• 10:10
  on video. So it's like I'm able to help
• 10:12
  because I've been in the shoes of a lot of people.
• 10:14
  So but it was working. So I'm like, OK, we got to
• 10:16
  double down on video. Like this is great.
• 10:18
  And then they shut it down and now it's, I mean, across the
• 10:22
  board, we have a little over 40 execs that we work with.
• 10:24
  Like video probably underperforms more than anything
• 10:28
  right now on LinkedIn, but that does not mean that you should
• 10:30
  not be doing video on LinkedIn. Like that is, I still think the
• 10:34
  most important thing that you should be doing on LinkedIn.
• 10:36
  So. I mean, I think that with
• 10:38
  everything AI, everything that you see that's out there today,
• 10:40
  it's the most authentic way to showcase who you are, your
• 10:44
  personality and be your authentic self.
• 10:46
  I think that there's nothing. I mean, you can, you can write
• 10:50
  great posts, you can post great graphics and carousels and all
• 10:53
  that. But like video is the one
• 10:55
  separator that somebody can come to your, your if they're
• 10:58
  shopping you right? And they're saying, OK, I'm
• 11:01
  looking at your two of your competitors.
• 11:03
  They go to your platform and you showcase video, your
• 11:06
  personality, right, Your, your, you know what your company does,
• 11:10
  your domain expertise, all of this.
• 11:12
  Then the other two are just posting text based posts or hey,
• 11:15
  Congrats to my company for, you know, achieving this.
• 11:18
  You're separating yourself right there.
• 11:20
  If you, if you're actually, I mean, if you're posting good
• 11:22
  content, you're not a complete Dick in your videos, then I
• 11:25
  think that there's an opportunity.
• 11:26
  There for sure. Yeah, I agree.
• 11:28
  I always say like video is the closest thing to in person that
• 11:31
  you can have from a relationship standpoint.
• 11:33
  I think we would all agree we want to build trust,
• 11:35
  credibility, relationships with our prospects that we want to
• 11:38
  win as customers. And the best way to do that
• 11:40
  would be in person. If I can spend hours with you in
• 11:42
  person, we're going to we're going to be pretty tight unless
• 11:44
  we just don't do this right. If I meet you at a conference,
• 11:47
  we spend time, we have a couple drinks, hang out, whatever that
• 11:50
  we can carry that on afterwards. If and the next kind of version
• 11:53
  of that is like, you know, you do stuff like this, obviously,
• 11:56
  but the next version of that online is video.
• 11:58
  It's like where people can see you and get a feel for your
• 12:00
  personality and how you communicate and who you are.
• 12:03
  And if you take that away and you just have text and picture,
• 12:05
  it'd be like dating somebody that you just sent emails to or
• 12:08
  text messages to. You'd be like, I don't feel like
• 12:10
  I know this person, right? Like I kind of like I get a
• 12:12
  little bit of a gist of it. But then if you see them on
• 12:14
  video, you're like, OK, I got a feel for this person.
• 12:17
  Add into that look the text and the video, all that like or the
• 12:20
  just the text and the graphic stuff, stuff like so much of
• 12:23
  that is AI today, AI garbage and it's really bad.
• 12:27
  And it's like video is another just a way to cut through the
• 12:29
  noise that's out there. And I mean video and selling
• 12:33
  too, like not like cold outreach necessarily, but like the sales
• 12:37
  process. You have a great meeting with
• 12:38
  somebody prospect. Like rather than sending a
• 12:41
  follow up e-mail, like laying everything out, like send, send
• 12:45
  a loom video over to embed that within the e-mail.
• 12:48
  Like that'll tell you whether or not they're interested, right?
• 12:50
  Because if they're going through and they're gonna watch that
• 12:52
  video and you can see if they're watching that video.
• 12:54
  Yeah. Like, that means you've got an
• 12:56
  interested buyer and you need to make sure that you're staying on
• 12:58
  top of them to continue to move that forward.
• 13:01
  If you've got somebody you send it to and a week later they
• 13:02
  still haven't watched it, it's telling.
• 13:05
  Yeah. So what someone's trying to
• 13:07
  build their brand on LinkedIn today or win clients on LinkedIn
• 13:10
  today. What is the best type of content
• 13:12
  do you think they can post? Is it a type of post?
• 13:14
  Is it a medium? Is it what she like?
• 13:17
  If they're trying to win. Clients build their brand and
• 13:20
  their brand clients right. I mean, I still have video, like
• 13:23
  video content, I think is is important.
• 13:24
  But for me it's like if you are, if you know who you're selling
• 13:29
  to, like you have to know your buyer, obviously, I mean, it's
• 13:31
  cliche to say that, but like know your buyer.
• 13:34
  The goal that you should have and the content that you create
• 13:37
  is to enter the conversation that's already taking place in
• 13:39
  their head. Like how do we do that, right?
• 13:42
  That's by reps That's like that's by having conversations,
• 13:46
  that's by making ideas in a sales call or taking team.
• 13:50
  It's it's taking ideas around you and building that into your
• 13:53
  content. I think that's what it is
• 13:55
  because you have to speak their language.
• 13:56
  You have to show them that you know the issues that they're
• 13:59
  going through. And I think that if you're just
• 14:01
  kind of spraying and praying and hoping that something's going to
• 14:03
  work, sure, every once in a while it will but like the goal,
• 14:07
  the goal for me and the content that I create is I usually try
• 14:10
  to pick one person and create a post for that person.
• 14:15
  I know that like Hermosi says, like pick us, like it's you
• 14:19
  create content for strangers. I get that.
• 14:22
  Like that's important. But for me, it's like, OK, I'm
• 14:24
  gonna create this post thinking about this conversation or this
• 14:28
  person or this is that thing that I saw.
• 14:30
  And that's what I'm gonna create for.
• 14:32
  Because I know that that challenge or that conversation
• 14:35
  topic that we have is relevant to a lot of people on my network
• 14:38
  and not just that one person. So.
• 14:40
  But if you're saying video doesn't get as good as reaching
• 14:42
  anymore, what, what type of content do you think would or
• 14:45
  what should be? Should people be doing another
• 14:47
  medium instead until video comes back, if it ever comes back?
• 14:50
  Because I think there's a certain aspect of like, yes,
• 14:53
  video to build brand, to get yourself out there, you have to
• 14:55
  have video in the mix of a content strategy.
• 14:57
  It's just kind of like hard to to make a content strategy work
• 15:00
  without video in today's day and age.
• 15:02
  But what else should they be doing on LinkedIn do you think
• 15:04
  from content standpoint? So from a content standpoint, so
• 15:09
  personality I think is key, right?
• 15:11
  Yeah, I mean showcase personality, but we haven't done
• 15:14
  it yet. So this I would be absolutely,
• 15:17
  we are the Cobblers kid when it comes to this.
• 15:19
  But I still believe that like newsletters are important.
• 15:23
  We help our clients create it. So we're not yet doing it.
• 15:25
  We, we're going to, but I think sub stack is something that I've
• 15:29
  been following pretty closely and I love their, their feed
• 15:32
  that they have. And I feel that there's a
• 15:35
  massive opportunity right now on Substack.
• 15:38
  So we're helping a few clients create newsletters through
• 15:40
  Substack. Now, why not do a newsletter
• 15:43
  just through regular e-mail or somewhere else versus the
• 15:45
  LinkedIn newsletter? I mean, it's, it's the whole
• 15:49
  owned versus rented versus owned audience I think is what it
• 15:52
  comes down. To but that's what I mean.
• 15:52
  So why would you go LinkedIn newsletter though and not just
• 15:54
  in the regular newsletter where you own it?
• 15:58
  LinkedIn makes it easy. I mean, do you have a, you have
• 15:59
  a LinkedIn newsletter? No, I have a regular newsletter.
• 16:01
  Regular newsletter. I think that LinkedIn makes it
• 16:03
  easy. Who it gets?
• 16:04
  Well, that's a. Shown to though, that's The
• 16:06
  thing is, well, the thing with the LinkedIn newsletter is that
• 16:09
  the setup is so easy for it because you're automatically
• 16:12
  going to blast your entire connections or your followers.
• 16:16
  So you're gonna pick up immediate subscribers to that
• 16:19
  just through that process that they have versus doing it.
• 16:21
  The regular newsletter I mean, you know, like it's getting
• 16:24
  e-mail addresses. These are people that are that
• 16:26
  want to receive your information in your newsletter.
• 16:30
  So LinkedIn newsletters, they don't have to opt in is what
• 16:32
  you're saying? I I actually I don't even know
• 16:35
  I. Thought they did.
• 16:36
  I thought you do. But you had, but you can send it
• 16:39
  out to them. But yeah, they have to opt in
• 16:40
  like they're not like your entire connection base is not
• 16:43
  getting your news. Well, that's what I thought,
• 16:44
  right. It's like, yeah, OK, 'cause I've
• 16:46
  never sent the LinkedIn newsletter.
• 16:47
  I've just never done it. No, I've just, I've, I've done
• 16:50
  the newsletter for us has worked really well.
• 16:51
  Just traditional e-mail. You guys have a great
• 16:53
  newsletter. Thanks, dude.
• 16:54
  Yeah, no, you got your newsletter is good because the
• 16:56
  problem with newsletters is like there's so much people try to
• 16:59
  cram into each one and it's like my attention span is in and out.
• 17:03
  So if you can give me something quick, quick hitting, then I'll
• 17:07
  pay attention to that. But.
• 17:08
  Yeah. So back to the question, Yeah,
• 17:10
  what do you think is going on on LinkedIn in the last 12 months?
• 17:12
  Like why do you think, what's your hypothesis as to why video
• 17:16
  is tanked? That's why the platform in
• 17:17
  general has less reach. There's more AI stuff on there
• 17:20
  obviously now, which is I think a given, but.
• 17:22
  I mean, my, this may be unpopular, but I think that they
• 17:26
  just want people to pay to play at this point.
• 17:28
  And, and that may be completely off, but we, we run, you know,
• 17:34
  thought leadership ads for some clients and they get good, great
• 17:38
  stuff from it, right. And the more that I continue to
• 17:41
  hear LinkedIn talk about LinkedIn ads, like in their own
• 17:44
  advertising anywhere. If I turn the radio, like sports
• 17:47
  talk radio on, I'm hearing that. Or if I see it on TV.
• 17:49
  Like they're in podcast? Commercials, they're everywhere.
• 17:52
  Yeah, they're everywhere. So if they're dumping that much
• 17:55
  money into it, like it just at some point you have to start
• 17:59
  believing that they pull back reach because they want you to
• 18:01
  pay for that reach. Again, I don't know.
• 18:04
  That is just a hypothesis. I have no clue but.
• 18:07
  I mean, it's kind of like, well, there's only could be a couple
• 18:09
  reasons. To me, it's like if there's more
• 18:11
  ads on the platform, that's going to take away from organic
• 18:14
  reach. If there's more people creating
• 18:15
  content on the platform, that means probably less.
• 18:19
  There's still attention, but there's now more creation.
• 18:22
  There's no more content. So that attention can now go to
• 18:24
  a lot of different places versus just, you know, where it used to
• 18:27
  be, not as many. So you've got a little supply
• 18:28
  and demand action going on there.
• 18:30
  What's your feed look like today?
• 18:31
  My feed is very interesting. Well, I try to curate my feed on
• 18:35
  LinkedIn to where it only shows to where it only shows either
• 18:38
  people I want to engage with and, or prospects.
• 18:41
  But you have to train the LinkedIn algorithm to be able to
• 18:44
  do that. And most people don't know that.
• 18:45
  So you got to go and intentionally engage with those
• 18:47
  people. So if I'm targeting staffing and
• 18:49
  recruiting companies, which we are right now, I'm going to go
• 18:51
  either on sales navigator or in my regular feed and make sure
• 18:53
  that when those people hit my feed or I go to search for them,
• 18:57
  I'm dropping a like a comment connection Adm because it's
• 19:01
  still a social graph. It's not an interest based
• 19:03
  TikTok graph or YouTube shorts. It's just it's not on LinkedIn.
• 19:07
  I think they tried a little bit with the video feed for a while,
• 19:10
  but the traditional feed on LinkedIn is still social graph,
• 19:12
  which means the more you connect, engage and message with
• 19:15
  people that you want to see in your feed and vice versa,
• 19:17
  they'll be there. And so, and then when you go to
• 19:19
  post content, those people are going to start to see your
• 19:21
  content more. So it's like very much like a
• 19:23
  network and I think they want to keep it that way, right, for the
• 19:26
  time being. But yeah, I mean, I think it's
• 19:28
  more ads. I think it's more creators.
• 19:30
  I think it's maybe LinkedIn messing with a little bit of it
• 19:32
  to push their agenda was probably because it just feels
• 19:35
  like it went off a Cliff. It wasn't like I remember TikTok
• 19:38
  2020-2021, 2020, you could kind of feel the organic reach
• 19:43
  dropping. It was like a not a sudden, but
• 19:45
  it's like it's not quite as good.
• 19:47
  And then it was just like, you know, you can almost feel it,
• 19:49
  right? And here it's like, it just felt
• 19:52
  like it was like one day. Yeah.
• 19:54
  Especially with the videos, you know?
• 19:56
  Yeah. So in your opinion though, do
• 19:58
  you think LinkedIn, the reach on LinkedIn, like organic reach on
• 20:01
  LinkedIn is dead? I don't that dead is a strong
• 20:04
  word. I think it's definitely down.
• 20:06
  I mean we see it across the board with all of our clients.
• 20:08
  Like we can literally look at graphs of all of our clients
• 20:11
  impressions. Yeah and over about a two-month,
• 20:13
  about a year and a half ago, over a 2 month period, they all
• 20:17
  tanked all of them at the same time.
• 20:18
  Yeah. So we had to be proactive with
• 20:21
  our clients and be like, hey, listen, this is not just you
• 20:24
  such as you seeing this. It's not, it's not that that
• 20:26
  this is shitty content right now, like what was working like
• 20:30
  we need to potentially adjust, but it's still the same type of
• 20:33
  content, right. So.
• 20:35
  I will say this, if you're out there listening to this right
• 20:37
  now and you're like, well, what? What's the best type of content
• 20:39
  that performs in terms of reach on LinkedIn?
• 20:42
  Picture post, Compelling story tied into your business, No
• 20:46
  question. And I was saying that back in
• 20:47
  20/20/21 when video was like the redheaded stepchild back then.
• 20:51
  Like, no, everyone's like, why are you doing video?
• 20:53
  Video's dumb. Do text and picture post.
• 20:55
  And I still did that. But if you do it, if you make a
• 20:58
  picture post or even a text post, really good story.
• 21:02
  I mean, that hooks got to be punchy and white people right
• 21:04
  into the story right away. No fluff, no bullshit, and you
• 21:07
  put a good picture that ties in with that story and create some
• 21:09
  emotion. That's the key, That's the key.
• 21:11
  It'll take off. The tie in's the key.
• 21:13
  So last week I posted a picture. I am not selfie guy.
• 21:19
  I'm not like post a selfie and talk about something that has
• 21:21
  nothing to do. With it, right?
• 21:22
  Right. I, I get that works.
• 21:24
  A lot of people do it and I don't judge that Like that's
• 21:27
  great you keep doing it. Last week I was sitting
• 21:30
  downstairs. It was probably like 5:30 in the
• 21:31
  morning and I was on my computer and I was like frustrated with
• 21:35
  some shit that was going on. And my dog sitting there, we had
• 21:38
  a new puppy and he just like looking up at me like crying and
• 21:41
  like he wants me to play with him.
• 21:43
  And I'm trying to like work on this.
• 21:45
  And I'm thinking like, you know, I still have those thoughts of
• 21:47
  like, what did I like, what are you doing?
• 21:49
  Go get a job, right? It's one of those.
• 21:51
  It's just it's like having your own business is very hard.
• 21:54
  So I'm like that this actually could be a good post.
• 21:56
  So I set the camera up. I took a picture, I put it out,
• 22:01
  and it was like, in the moment, it was exactly how I felt.
• 22:04
  Like you could look at that picture and just be like, like
• 22:06
  this dude's going through. It right now it matched the yeah
• 22:10
  exactly. And like the picture the, the,
• 22:12
  the post talked about the great stuff that comes with
• 22:16
  entrepreneurship, but it also talks about the suck, like the
• 22:18
  things that absolutely blow that come with entrepreneurship,
• 22:21
  right? And all this stuff and I thought
• 22:24
  like, I'm like, OK, this is this makes sense.
• 22:26
  Like this post, this picture and my, my wife like, well, what's
• 22:29
  the picture have to do with your post?
• 22:30
  I'm like, come on, you're cute. So.
• 22:34
  But yeah, I mean, I, I think that if you can put out a good
• 22:37
  picture and yeah, in photos work they're, they've always worked.
• 22:40
  They always will work. And like, they carousels had
• 22:43
  their day. Yeah, like where carousels were
• 22:45
  great and everybody talked about dwell time and like, and
• 22:47
  carousels still work good. They don't work as great as.
• 22:50
  They seem to anymore. Yeah, text.
• 22:51
  Just pure text based posts. We're great still today.
• 22:55
  So there's, it's just you have to just continue to test, test,
• 22:59
  test, see what works for you, see what doesn't work for you.
• 23:01
  And I wish there was like something like you see all the
• 23:04
  gurus out there that this is what you should and should not
• 23:07
  be doing. It's like test it.
• 23:09
  There's, there's, there's one of the things that that I don't
• 23:15
  know, I don't want to say it bugs me, but I read it all the
• 23:18
  time is you get these massive creators that are telling you
• 23:23
  this is what you should be doing because this works for me and
• 23:26
  they've got 100,200 thousand followers and it's like.
• 23:30
  Probably spend 8 hours a day on like that. 100% and it's all
• 23:33
  like what are you doing? Like and then you've got people
• 23:35
  that are desperate to get to that success mark and they're
• 23:40
  start, they start trying to do and it's just like everybody has
• 23:43
  got to do their own thing. Figure out what works for you
• 23:45
  and then just continue to build. Once you figure out you're going
• 23:48
  to throw a lot of shit at the wall, something will stick.
• 23:50
  You just got to find out what that is and and push through to
• 23:52
  it. I.
• 23:53
  Think there's a balance to of like being true to yourself and
• 23:57
  not caving into whatever the algorithm wants.
• 23:59
  I'll give it today, right? Like there's a brand consistency
• 24:02
  that I think you have to consider figuring out what
• 24:05
  format works best for you. So if you're great on video,
• 24:07
  short form, boom, roll into it, leverage it.
• 24:10
  And you know, if you're good on podcasts or interviews like this
• 24:13
  setting and the more behind the scenes content, which I want to
• 24:15
  ask you about here in a second, lean into that, right?
• 24:17
  If you're a great writer, mix some pictures in there.
• 24:19
  Just do some text posts. Lean into that.
• 24:21
  But yeah, I think there's a, there's a balance of like
• 24:24
  knowing what works on a platform so I can play to that versus
• 24:28
  also like if I just wanted to reach right now on LinkedIn, I
• 24:30
  would just do text and picture post with a compelling story.
• 24:32
  I know how to do that shit right every, every time, every time.
• 24:35
  But I also know that there is a really a lot of value that's
• 24:39
  placed on video and people knowing me and seeing me in
• 24:41
  their feed and getting a feel for who I am.
• 24:43
  And I can communicate messages that I can't on text or picture
• 24:46
  that I can on video. I can also take those videos and
• 24:49
  post them on other platforms where they do reward short form
• 24:52
  videos. So there's that too.
• 24:54
  I want to shift a little bit here.
• 24:55
  I saw you do a post about PayPal was hiring for a head of CEO
• 25:02
  content. Yeah, that was interesting.
• 25:05
  Did you not surprise that before?
• 25:06
  Not surprising, but that was a real post that you saw, real job
• 25:10
  description and you were kind of talking about, I think the the
• 25:13
  importance of personal branding. Yeah, I like full transparency.
• 25:17
  Somebody else had talked about it and I saw and I was actually
• 25:21
  my buddy Sean sent it to me. Sean's like, have you seen this
• 25:24
  yet? And I'm like, no, I'm like, but
• 25:26
  I love it and I'm going to get a poster on it.
• 25:28
  So Sean sent it to me and I told him I was going to post on it.
• 25:31
  So but yeah, I mean, that's I think that that's just tells you
• 25:34
  where everything's headed right now.
• 25:36
  Like, yes, PayPal, massive company, massive like tech
• 25:41
  company, right? So very forward thinking.
• 25:44
  But I do believe that you're going to start to see more of
• 25:47
  this kind of creep in, not just in the tech space, but I think
• 25:50
  in spaces where it's not as sexy to do this right now.
• 25:54
  Right where, you know, you, you think professional services
• 25:59
  companies that are a little bit behind in the times that aren't
• 26:03
  creating a lot of content and their whole strategy is like,
• 26:05
  Hey, the company just put this out, go repost it.
• 26:08
  Like that's their social media strategy.
• 26:10
  So when you ask like a CEO of a company like that, like, hey,
• 26:13
  are you active on LinkedIn? Yeah, I'm super active on
• 26:15
  LinkedIn. You go to their LinkedIn profile
• 26:17
  and it's just a bunch of reposts.
• 26:19
  And with, with saddest, sometimes they think that's
• 26:21
  good. They're like, yeah, our content
• 26:23
  does pretty well. It's pretty good.
• 26:24
  We got a good rhythm. Now it's like, no, you don't.
• 26:25
  No, don't. No, you don't.
• 26:28
  It's terrible and I. Guarantee it doesn't drive
• 26:30
  business, that's the thing. It doesn't.
• 26:32
  I think that people like we have access today.
• 26:35
  We have access to a lot of shit. We see everything.
• 26:38
  It's not like back in the day when we started sales like where
• 26:42
  and I talked about this on our podcast recently, we like you
• 26:47
  could cold call somebody and catch them real time, pitch them
• 26:53
  what you do and they likely have not heard of another company
• 26:56
  that does that. So they'll say like, well, who
• 26:59
  are some of your competitors? No, that question is not getting
• 27:01
  asked now. We we can go to anywhere and
• 27:03
  find out that stuff. So I think access is so
• 27:06
  important. So when you are a company that's
• 27:09
  so far behind in that and you think that that type of strategy
• 27:11
  works, like this is not part you are part of part of the buyer
• 27:15
  journey, like you as the executive or you as the CEO, the
• 27:18
  founder of this business. And if that's all you're doing,
• 27:21
  that's not helping you out at all at all, right?
• 27:24
  People are coming to you, to your profile to see what you can
• 27:28
  give them. Like they're begging you to
• 27:30
  separate yourself from the competitor.
• 27:32
  And if you're just reposting then it's I would say if
• 27:34
  anything it's probably hurting you more than it's helping you.
• 27:37
  Right. Yeah.
• 27:37
  And the problem is you've got, you know, the buying like 60 to
• 27:40
  80% of the buying process is already completed by time they
• 27:43
  reach out to sales. So customers are smart.
• 27:46
  They're also more skeptical, but they're more educated now, so
• 27:48
  they're doing research. They're chatting and Googling.
• 27:51
  They're on LinkedIn, they're getting information, insights,
• 27:54
  strategies, community, you know, they're getting a lot of
• 27:57
  feedback into in terms of what's working, what's a good solution,
• 28:01
  what's not. And so if you're just not in
• 28:02
  that arena, participating in that, like you're not even part
• 28:06
  of the conversation, yes, like you're just not even an option,
• 28:08
  right? And then you're trying to cold
• 28:10
  call in and be like, hi, my name's Alex with so and so.
• 28:12
  And they're like, I already got a vendor 3 weeks ago from a guy.
• 28:14
  No one LinkedIn it's. Like or you got some bullshit
• 28:16
  cold outreach e-mail strategy that just checking in.
• 28:21
  Circling back, you know, it's like, let's talk, talk about the
• 28:23
  cold outreach on LinkedIn. What is a good like DM strategy
• 28:27
  for LinkedIn? Because we get a lot of nasty,
• 28:29
  terrible horrible DMS that no one opens or reads or notes on.
• 28:34
  I mean, there's so many different levels of it.
• 28:36
  I'm a big believer is if you're going to DM somebody 2 at the
• 28:40
  Max like don't like spray and pray like it's e-mail, you have
• 28:45
  to treat it like it's a text message right right.
• 28:47
  Like you're texting somebody right.
• 28:49
  It's when. They get like annoyed that you
• 28:51
  didn't get back to him and they're like, it's like the
• 28:53
  fourth or fifth one. They're like, like, did I catch
• 28:55
  you the wrong time? What's going on?
• 28:56
  It's like. Check.
• 28:58
  Check which box this is for you. One, you're too busy.
• 29:00
  Two, you're being chased by a bunch of pigeons.
• 29:02
  Or then it's like. What, like terrible dude?
• 29:06
  I I think the problem is that people, people hire companies to
• 29:12
  do this for them. Like most of the garbage that
• 29:15
  you get, like you go to the LinkedIn profile and it's like
• 29:18
  somewhat of a reputable person, the title and everything.
• 29:21
  And you know that they just hired an agency for sure.
• 29:23
  That's and it's like it worked. There was a time where it worked
• 29:29
  like where people were responding.
• 29:31
  But people are so hesitant on LinkedIn today to accept
• 29:35
  connection requests from people they don't know because they
• 29:37
  assume that the pitch is coming right.
• 29:38
  After it for sure, because it normally is.
• 29:39
  It normally is right. So I mean, even I'm like, I look
• 29:43
  at the title, I'm like, OK, you know, I'll accept this.
• 29:48
  I'm like, just hold my breath and hope nothing happens.
• 29:50
  But then you get the it's a long paragraph and the calendar, the
• 29:54
  calendar link at the bottom. And it's I think that if you're
• 29:57
  going to do LinkedIn outreach, the DM strategy should
• 30:00
  absolutely be part of everybody on Linkedin's playbook, right?
• 30:03
  But the right type of DM strategy, the right type of DM
• 30:06
  strategy is short, sweet to the point it's providing value.
• 30:09
  It's helping them out. Like we the two that we have run
• 30:13
  recently that have worked well is we build out like this one of
• 30:19
  my Co founders build out. It's this detailed, like light
• 30:22
  version of what we do and it's got our tech stack in there.
• 30:26
  It's got like questions. It's it's basically to help a
• 30:28
  growth or marketing leader set this up internally for their
• 30:32
  team. So we were giving that away
• 30:34
  like, hey, you know, thanks for connecting some of our, you
• 30:36
  know, growth, you know, growth teams have seen some benefit in
• 30:39
  this. Yeah, check it out.
• 30:41
  Let me know if you have any thoughts on it.
• 30:42
  Like right, send it over. We've gotten good feedback.
• 30:44
  Hey man, this is awesome. Thanks for sending.
• 30:46
  If I have any questions, I'll let you know.
• 30:47
  That's great. That's the end of that right
• 30:49
  there, right there. I'm on their radar.
• 30:51
  They're on my radar. Like I will follow them.
• 30:54
  I will see the content that they're posting.
• 30:55
  I will engage in that content. I will go to their CEO, I'll see
• 30:58
  if he's posting or she's posting and I'll engage with that
• 31:00
  content. So it's a long term play there.
• 31:03
  The other one that worked for us is personalized video.
• 31:07
  Like I know a lot of people shit on like video.
• 31:10
  Like, hey, if you're going to take me, just give me something
• 31:12
  to read. Like that means I got to click
• 31:13
  on the link and listen to you. I get it.
• 31:16
  I'm kind of like that too. But personalized video, like one
• 31:19
  on run outreach video through our partner program, like
• 31:22
  building our partner program. So we're not, I'm not selling in
• 31:26
  that video. It's like, hey, we work with
• 31:28
  fractional CMOS that, you know, have clients that they may want
• 31:33
  to do this, right? Our partner program, we give
• 31:36
  away free content to our partners and then there's a Rev
• 31:39
  share. I'll include some information.
• 31:40
  Let me know if you ever wanna wrap through this stuff, right?
• 31:43
  We've gotten good responses on that.
• 31:45
  So it's. Yeah.
• 31:45
  So the that has worked good for us.
• 31:48
  But like, that takes time to set that up.
• 31:50
  You have to like literally find certain people.
• 31:52
  And I just don't think people are patient enough to let it all
• 31:56
  work out. They would rather span the shit
• 32:00
  out of people and get like a 1% response rate.
• 32:03
  Yeah, So, yeah, yeah, most of it's just like shitty copy and
• 32:06
  paste stuff. It's not even personalized.
• 32:08
  I think so bad. The more it's like most things,
• 32:10
  the more effort you can put into it, probably the better response
• 32:12
  you're going to get, right. So if you can add a little
• 32:14
  context and, you know, maybe it's a specific CEO of a
• 32:17
  specific industry and you can reference something that is very
• 32:20
  relevant to them. Yeah.
• 32:21
  Hey, I know this is going on right now.
• 32:22
  It's probably top, top of mind for you.
• 32:24
  I talked to 10 other CEO's going through the same problem.
• 32:26
  We did a quick assessment and found three things that
• 32:28
  instantly in this area. I'd love to chat with you if you
• 32:31
  got, you know, for 15 minutes, right.
• 32:33
  It's like just trying to be a little bit personal relevant.
• 32:36
  And then I always go back and forth of like, I booked a lot of
• 32:39
  meetings off D Ming people, but some of it's come from because
• 32:42
  they've seen my content or I've engaged with their content.
• 32:45
  I've warmed it up a little bit. Yeah, the warm up is huge.
• 32:47
  The warm up's huge, right? Yeah, so like, but I think you
• 32:50
  can either go for the meeting right away or you can slower
• 32:53
  play it right. You can have an asset or
• 32:55
  something you give them or hey, I'd love to send you something.
• 32:57
  Hey, stop me if this, if your LinkedIn is and your marketing's
• 33:00
  on fire and you're winning a bunch of clients, stop me right
• 33:03
  now. Don't even read the rest of
• 33:04
  this. But if it's not, I'd love to
• 33:05
  send you something because I noticed that you're in the space
• 33:08
  and I worked with, you know, five other executives in the
• 33:09
  space and we were able to do this and this, it's a free
• 33:12
  thing, no strings attached. I'll just send it over if you
• 33:14
  want and let me know. And that's a little bit
• 33:16
  disarming because it kind of brings some, hey, stop me if
• 33:18
  your shit's already good. Don't even read this, right?
• 33:20
  And so there's something about that, like the reverse
• 33:22
  psychology or like the permission to disregard this if
• 33:25
  it's not relevant. And then I can send you
• 33:27
  something and then, you know, so that's one way.
• 33:29
  And then you can set up an, you know, you can get them an e-mail
• 33:32
  and you could send them an e-mail list or whatever you take
• 33:34
  it from there. Or there's the option of just
• 33:36
  going from the meeting right away.
• 33:37
  Yeah. And I think it depends on.
• 33:39
  Yeah, the it's, it's the disarming thing I think is huge.
• 33:43
  Yeah, and video does that, right.
• 33:44
  So it's like, hey, Jared, like, hey, I just saw your post on XY
• 33:47
  and Z, your PayPal post, man, that was interesting, right.
• 33:49
  And then getting this on. Help.
• 33:50
  That's that's what's key is that you're calling it out.
• 33:52
  It's not like, and you're calling out something specific
• 33:54
  on video, right? And I, and I do say at the end,
• 33:57
  like, listen, if this is irrelevant, don't even worry
• 33:59
  about it. Like glad that we're connected.
• 34:01
  Like whatever that is. You, you look at like all the,
• 34:04
  the, the garbage that we get nowadays, right?
• 34:07
  Like I think clay is a genius tool.
• 34:10
  Like, I think it's a great tool if you know how to use it and
• 34:12
  you know how to use it, right. The problem is now is you get,
• 34:15
  hey, saw your posts or I guarantee I'll get one.
• 34:19
  Yeah, saw the podcast you did with Alex.
• 34:21
  Yes, Right. And no context.
• 34:23
  And it's like, great job, right. OK.
• 34:26
  Yeah. And then the pitch comes right
• 34:27
  after this. I'm like, that's the type of
• 34:28
  stuff you get. But if you can actually say
• 34:31
  something like, remember that one time you talked about like
• 34:35
  dog food? If somebody references dog food
• 34:38
  in a message that I talked about dog food, I will listen.
• 34:42
  I'm like, all right, I'll respond back to that one because
• 34:44
  you actually did listen to it. I know you're not full of shit.
• 34:46
  I know this is not automation, right?
• 34:49
  That is the key. So it's like I did quick story,
• 34:54
  I did outreach. I was working for a custom
• 34:57
  software company, I don't know, maybe 7-8 years ago.
• 35:02
  And like I was doing deep research.
• 35:04
  I'm trying to get in touch with like the, and I posted about
• 35:08
  this before, but I was trying to get in touch with the head of
• 35:11
  digital strategy for I think American Airlines.
• 35:13
  And like, that's a big meeting. Like you want to get like these
• 35:17
  big meetings, you got to do some work.
• 35:19
  You can't spray them because somebody else is probably
• 35:22
  reading their. Emails.
• 35:23
  So I found some old like grainy ass video on YouTube about her
• 35:28
  talking on stage. She was on stage talking about
• 35:31
  how before digital transformation with a was a
• 35:34
  thing, she would like host pizza parties at the American Airlines
• 35:38
  basement and bring people in the tech like in the tech like in
• 35:43
  and talk about like where we can go with this company and all
• 35:45
  this stuff. So I found that so I ordered her
• 35:47
  Lou Malnati's pizzas, had them delivered down to Texas
• 35:51
  somewhere wherever she was in Texas and I got a notification
• 35:54
  when they were delivered. So I sent her an e-mail, right,
• 35:57
  and then and a LinkedIn, because we were connected on LinkedIn.
• 36:00
  And she responded back within like 10 minutes saying this is
• 36:03
  great, like, right. But that's like, super deep
• 36:05
  research. Yeah.
• 36:06
  But if you wanna land those types of meetings, yes, you have
• 36:08
  to do it. You can't depend on like a bunch
• 36:11
  of automation to do that for you.
• 36:13
  I think more people need to take those approaches today.
• 36:15
  Yeah, just the more personalized hands on relevant, like put a
• 36:20
  little bit of thought into it because to your points, like the
• 36:22
  AI tools are making it so easy. The reference like I saw, Hey,
• 36:25
  the founder talk podcast is great.
• 36:27
  By the way, Would you want to? It's like, dude, anyone can look
• 36:30
  up that I have a podcast and like, of course, you know, you
• 36:32
  try to it's like, that's almost like trying to pull the the, you
• 36:35
  know, the rug over your eyes, right?
• 36:36
  It's like you try like you're trying to trick me.
• 36:39
  It's what actually hurts trust versus build trust.
• 36:42
  I'd rather have you just come in cold and be like, hey, man, I
• 36:44
  saw your founder marketing agency.
• 36:46
  Dude, here's some cool stuff. You might be interested, right.
• 36:47
  Versus like you're doing. No, no, like you know.
• 36:50
  It's funny that you say you would you would if you know
• 36:54
  James Hornick. Shout out to James James.
• 36:57
  We did. Our last podcast was on we
• 37:00
  talked about outbound is bullshit and one of the things
• 37:03
  that he hates is like people don't lie to him.
• 37:05
  Yes, through that automation, right?
• 37:08
  And he's like, you're already off on the wrong foot.
• 37:10
  I don't trust you. You're full of.
• 37:11
  Shit, like, why would I ever have a conversation with?
• 37:13
  Right. So it's very similar.
• 37:14
  Yeah. If you're gonna personalize it,
• 37:16
  you got to really personalize it, Yeah.
• 37:17
  And make it real. And video's a great way to do
• 37:20
  that because you can't bullshit. It's like you on video.
• 37:22
  So you can't be like, you know. But I try to do it like outside
• 37:25
  where I'm like, I'm not like, yeah, so I'm like walking
• 37:27
  around. I think the dog's out like,
• 37:28
  yeah, for sure, like next to me, like whatever.
• 37:30
  So it's not as like quality as yours.
• 37:32
  But I mean, I think that the the fact that it's not, it looks
• 37:36
  like just like some dude just shooting it.
• 37:38
  That's how it should be. It should be like you got a
• 37:40
  video message from a friend. Yeah, right.
• 37:42
  And that's what that's what, that's why it works.
• 37:44
  Yep. Let's touch a little bit on
• 37:46
  LinkedIn thought leader ads. You said you're running a few
• 37:48
  for some clients. We've done some ourselves and he
• 37:51
  just, if somebody's listening right now, founder, CEO,
• 37:53
  executive. What are your thoughts on
• 37:55
  LinkedIn thought leader ads? How are they different from
• 37:57
  regular ads and how are they working?
• 37:59
  So I am full transparency here. Brandon is the one that runs all
• 38:04
  that. So he's our the one that sets it
• 38:05
  up. He's one of my Co founders.
• 38:08
  For us, I think that the benefit that we see in it is it's a lot
• 38:11
  of retargeting. We do retargeting and we boost a
• 38:14
  lot of the contents or a specific list.
• 38:16
  So the way that I talk about it is if you, this is a way to kind
• 38:21
  of Fast forward the process, right?
• 38:23
  It's kind of a cheat code, but you have to pay for the cheat
• 38:25
  code. Like I always tell people like
• 38:27
  if you're not mentally prepared to do this for at least a year,
• 38:30
  like creating organic content consistently, then it's a waste
• 38:34
  of time. Like you have to be like, this
• 38:36
  is a long term play. However, you can pay to get in
• 38:39
  front of these people, right? And if you pay to get in front
• 38:42
  of these people, it does a few things.
• 38:43
  One, it takes the algorithm out of play, which is huge.
• 38:46
  Like you can like bypass the algorithm.
• 38:48
  And if you could bypass the algorithm and you have the money
• 38:51
  to do it, do it. Two, it is going to get you to
• 38:56
  people that you're not connected to.
• 38:58
  You're not there aren't first degree connections, right?
• 39:00
  So it's a great way to retarget. Like think about how we, you and
• 39:04
  I maybe buy clothes like this shirt, these shoes, retargeting,
• 39:09
  right? And that's like how a lot of us
• 39:11
  buy today is through. We go somewhere, we see it, but
• 39:15
  then we consistently see it cuz they keep hitting us, hitting
• 39:17
  us, hitting us. So the play there for us is like
• 39:20
  create a list of people, either pull from the list of from
• 39:23
  retargeting or create a list of people they want to get in front
• 39:26
  of. And then just start creating
• 39:28
  content around knowing that the content that we're creating is
• 39:30
  going to be part of this. And then you can go in.
• 39:33
  The thing I like about it too is you can go in and you can add
• 39:35
  links then back to the ads and, and you know, there's theories
• 39:40
  on whether or not you should include links and organic posts
• 39:42
  and all that stuff, but you can go back and manipulate it.
• 39:45
  If the hook didn't hit great, you know, we can continue to
• 39:48
  test it out through other stuff and figure out what works before
• 39:51
  we put dollars behind it. So there's a lot of testing that
• 39:54
  can go on. And you know, the the metrics
• 39:56
  we've seen are great, the call to actions that we can add to
• 39:59
  it. What I love about the LinkedIn
• 40:02
  thought leader ads that you can take your own personal content
• 40:06
  and run it as an ad, which you can't really do on a regular
• 40:08
  LinkedIn ads. It has to come from the LinkedIn
• 40:10
  page. So it's like your company or
• 40:11
  company account, I should say. So this comes from your profile.
• 40:15
  So you see Jared's face or my face in the feed and you're
• 40:17
  like, oh, there's another video or a post from Alex.
• 40:19
  In reality it's an ad and you almost don't even notice it
• 40:23
  unless you look at the very bottom of the headline where it
• 40:24
  says promoted by my company impacts marketing right?
• 40:27
  Yeah, and as much shit as I give LinkedIn, they still haven't
• 40:33
  like made us turn that a different color.
• 40:35
  Like it blends in pretty well. So like it.
• 40:38
  Works and that's your point. It's like if you get good
• 40:41
  creative in the feed, you can just pay to get in front of the
• 40:44
  exact right people. So it'd be like the organic
• 40:46
  content, like going to a conference where like your, some
• 40:49
  of your customers might be there.
• 40:50
  So it's good to show up, maybe get on stage if you can.
• 40:53
  But this would be like you're going to AVIP conference with
• 40:55
  100 people and all of them are target prospects and you could
• 40:58
  speak on stage and it's like you're going to pay for that
• 41:00
  access, but you're going to get that access.
• 41:02
  So I always tell people like in marketing, you can absolutely
• 41:05
  expedite your results. You're going to have to pay for
• 41:07
  it though, right? But if you build the organic at
• 41:09
  the same time, what happens is the paid people come to the
• 41:12
  organic and they get in your feed and they see your profile
• 41:15
  while they've built a brand. They they've got shit to say.
• 41:18
  They've got a perspective on the industry.
• 41:19
  There's maybe other content I'm interested in their websites.
• 41:22
  Well done. That feeds into the paid and
• 41:25
  then the organic feeds into the the paid feeds into the organic
• 41:29
  and the organic feeds into the paid.
• 41:30
  You go vice versa. And I always tell people like
• 41:32
  from running the thought leader ads, yes, generating leads.
• 41:36
  And you to your point, you go to an organic post, you can change
• 41:39
  the copy posted organically and then you can go back and let's
• 41:42
  say you run it as a thought leader, add a week later, go
• 41:44
  back to that post, change the cop.
• 41:46
  I may post something that's a little more general towards
• 41:48
  business owners and then go back and specifically niche down that
• 41:51
  copy for staffing or recruiting or software or whatever it might
• 41:54
  be. So that that point I can make it
• 41:56
  very specific to the audience that I'm targeting.
• 41:58
  And then I'm just getting right in front of those people and
• 42:01
  whether I may take them to landing page, I may take them to
• 42:06
  a landing page or website wherever, or I may have them
• 42:09
  book a call. So that's great to get the lead
• 42:11
  flow there. But the byproduct that most
• 42:13
  people don't know by is you get profile views, you get people
• 42:17
  sending you connection request. You get, you know, people like
• 42:19
  visiting your pages. And so if and then you also get
• 42:22
  people in your feed now consuming your organic content
• 42:25
  that weren't there before you send them Adm Hey, great to be
• 42:28
  connected. You probably saw one of my
• 42:29
  videos, you know, and then you start the conversation.
• 42:32
  And so like, it's actually good if you're like, I'm on, I'm new
• 42:35
  to LinkedIn, like where do I, I start?
• 42:36
  It's like, if you have the money to spend on thought leader ads,
• 42:39
  you could build up that network and get the right people in your
• 42:41
  feed on top of the organic stuff you could do for free.
• 42:44
  Yes, right. So there's just so many
• 42:45
  benefits. Yeah.
• 42:46
  And if you can get people back, I mean, think about your your
• 42:49
  content library on LinkedIn. One thing that people complain
• 42:54
  about, complain about, I mean that maybe that's a strong
• 42:57
  phrase, is that you create this organic content, right?
• 43:00
  And it doesn't perform well. It's not like it disappears.
• 43:03
  Yeah, like it is still there. So when people were shopping and
• 43:06
  they're going back to your profile, your profile, for
• 43:08
  example, it's got a ton of great videos.
• 43:10
  Like I could probably spend an hour at least on just your
• 43:15
  videos, like learning, right? But that's the key.
• 43:18
  It's like, how do you like, how can we make that argument that
• 43:22
  like, yeah, it may not this post may not have performed well, but
• 43:25
  it's not like it disappears. It stays in your library.
• 43:27
  So when people are coming in, they're researching your your
• 43:29
  stuff. Like that's part of what they're
• 43:32
  doing. So think of it as like a website
• 43:34
  with like just a bunch of content on the website that
• 43:36
  people are consuming. So I don't know.
• 43:39
  And paid can get people back to that.
• 43:41
  Yes, exactly I'm curious to get your thoughts on this because
• 43:45
  I've been telling him probably for the past couple of years now
• 43:48
  I've been telling founders and CE OS stop creating so much
• 43:51
  content and start being the content.
• 43:55
  I am the content, right? I'll give you one of these
• 43:57
  shirts on the way out too. And what that means is that like
• 44:01
  everyone tries to manufacture the content, right?
• 44:03
  Like I'm going to get on camera. I'm going to say these specific
• 44:05
  things or I'm going to type the specific post out and there's a
• 44:07
  time and a place for that. That's great, right?
• 44:08
  You need to learn how to create content like that.
• 44:11
  But there's also like the I'm talking to Jared now we'll
• 44:13
  repurpose this. This is a conversation from the
• 44:15
  long form. I'm talking.
• 44:17
  I'm on a coaching call with a client or a teammate, or I'm on
• 44:20
  stage speaking, or I'm, you know, whatever I'm doing, I can
• 44:23
  take that content and just capture it with a smartphone or
• 44:26
  a simple camera and cheap mic. And I can repurpose that into
• 44:30
  content for LinkedIn, for YouTube, for wherever else.
• 44:33
  And what it does is allows people to see what I'm really
• 44:35
  like behind the scenes because I don't get that.
• 44:38
  When I, if I'm crafting something specific for the feed
• 44:41
  and I'm going to create it, of course it's going to be the best
• 44:43
  version that comes out. It's going to be edited all
• 44:45
  these stuff out and I'm going to have this and that.
• 44:47
  But if I'm showcasing like a serious conversation with an
• 44:50
  employee or I'm on stage answering a question, or I'm
• 44:53
  behind the scenes working with a client and I'm filming that,
• 44:56
  that to me like shows people how you work with clients and
• 44:59
  teammates and it gives you a next level access that you just
• 45:03
  wouldn't have had years ago. Yeah.
• 45:05
  I'm curious your thoughts on that.
• 45:06
  I mean, for us, it seems like that's common sense.
• 45:10
  Yeah, right. Like 100% you should be doing
• 45:13
  this. But then you go to LinkedIn.
• 45:15
  Yeah. And we have, our feeds are very
• 45:17
  different than I think most people's feeds on the right.
• 45:20
  We see a lot of this content already, right?
• 45:24
  But you have to do that like we have clients like yes, we create
• 45:26
  the podcast style interviews, like we pull video content from
• 45:30
  that. But part of what we do is also
• 45:32
  we tell them like, hey, think about your day-to-day.
• 45:34
  We love working with growth and marketing teams on behalf of the
• 45:38
  CEO because they can keep us in the loop on what's coming up
• 45:42
  next month. Like where where's he or she
• 45:44
  gonna be? They're speaking at this event.
• 45:46
  Great. Let's make sure we get some good
• 45:48
  photos from that for sure. So you coach them around that
• 45:51
  stuff too, which is. Good.
• 45:52
  Yeah. We coach them around a lot of
• 45:52
  that stuff because we just, I love our clients.
• 45:56
  If we just depended on them, yeah, then it would be the
• 46:00
  content would be really bad. Like it because it would be the
• 46:02
  same thing. Over and over, them in the
• 46:04
  office being like, here's my take on that, Yeah.
• 46:06
  So we want to get them outside in their element.
• 46:08
  We want to like create that true personal brand, like, hey, what
• 46:12
  are you doing? Any trips coming up with the
• 46:14
  family? Like what are you doing this
• 46:16
  weekend? Like what do you, what do we
• 46:17
  like to do? Oh, you're doing an Iron Man.
• 46:19
  Awesome. That's great.
• 46:20
  We can get some content from that, right.
• 46:22
  And we don't want to turn it into like Facebook or anything,
• 46:25
  right? Or like totally off or totally
• 46:27
  off. But like we could sprinkle this
• 46:29
  stuff in because we want to show that you are absolutely you are
• 46:32
  the content. Like this is you.
• 46:34
  Yeah, It's not your company. You know, you're the expert.
• 46:37
  Mm hmm. Build trust over here.
• 46:39
  That trust is going to transfer over to the company.
• 46:41
  Yeah, right. So how do we make sure that they
• 46:43
  are out and about and doing it? And sometimes it's tough to get
• 46:46
  them outside and go into things. But like we, we try to push the
• 46:50
  marketing or growth teams to like help push them to get them
• 46:54
  out and do stuff. But so I think it's great.
• 46:56
  It's funny, man, because I think initially like CEOs and founders
• 46:58
  want to go very scripted because they want to see like the
• 47:00
  perfect thing on camera when they post it on social.
• 47:03
  They don't want there to be any mistakes, you know, But when
• 47:06
  you, what we found is like when we get them off the script and
• 47:09
  we say, just can you record a conversation that you're going
• 47:11
  to have with a client or an employee or an event that you're
• 47:13
  at or whatever it is, the content, they usually come back
• 47:16
  and like, man, that was really easy to get that.
• 47:18
  Like we were able to get so much content.
• 47:20
  It was natural if it didn't feel scripted or like forced at all.
• 47:24
  And it's like it's easier to create that type of content.
• 47:27
  But guess what? If you're feeling that way, that
• 47:28
  means your audience is also feeling that way.
• 47:30
  Like they can feel when it's rigid or hi.
• 47:32
  So today I'm going to tell you three things they can pick up on
• 47:36
  that shit, right? And so it's different when, and
• 47:38
  I think with you, especially in short form video, if you're
• 47:40
  scrolling the social media feeds, TikTok, Instagram,
• 47:43
  YouTube shorts, LinkedIn, whatever it is, we crave that
• 47:46
  like real shit. You know, when we see something
• 47:48
  really going on and there's a story unfolding and there's this
• 47:52
  big gap in curiosity between what we know and what we don't
• 47:55
  know yet. And we want to fill that gap and
• 47:57
  we want to see how the story ends.
• 47:58
  That's in a lot of ways like what works the best.
• 48:01
  For sure. I think Polish is the enemy.
• 48:03
  Yeah. Like I like sure, yes, you want
• 48:07
  to be polished because you're the executive of this company,
• 48:09
  Like, whatever. But Polish is not authentic.
• 48:11
  Like, it's not like, that's not like, hey, like I can watch a
• 48:14
  video. I have buddies that have posted
• 48:17
  and I'm like, next time I see him out, we're having a few
• 48:20
  drinks. I'm like, hey, what was up with
• 48:22
  that video like? That was not you.
• 48:25
  Definitely not you. Like that's not you at all.
• 48:27
  And this is what we tell our clients too.
• 48:29
  Like if we're helping you create content and that content, like
• 48:33
  if your buddy can look at you and be like, you didn't write
• 48:36
  that that's not your voice or you didn't like, then then we're
• 48:38
  not doing our job. We're doing a shitty job is what
• 48:40
  we're doing. So I, I just, and we've had
• 48:43
  clients of like, wait, this isn't scripted.
• 48:45
  And it's like, no, it's not scripted.
• 48:46
  Like scripted is bad. Like you got to just just trust
• 48:48
  us that we can get you there. Because similar to what you
• 48:51
  said, like they watch that video.
• 48:53
  I'm like, oh, that was easy. And this, this is actually
• 48:55
  pretty good. Like, yeah, that's what it's
• 48:56
  like when it's not scripted. We don't want it to be scripted.
• 48:59
  We want it to be just conversational, let it flow.
• 49:01
  And then, you know, if you say something that sounds stupid,
• 49:04
  guess what? We all say something that sounds
• 49:06
  stupid sometimes. I've probably said 10 things on
• 49:08
  this podcast so far. Yeah, for sure.
• 49:10
  What do you say to the CEO that wants to build their personal
• 49:12
  brand and get on video, but they're scared too?
• 49:16
  That's a tough one cuz that is a conversation.
• 49:18
  It's more common than people would think.
• 49:20
  It's. Successful people that are like,
• 49:22
  I'm nervous again. I'm like.
• 49:23
  Really, it's crazy. It's really cuz we have, I've
• 49:26
  talked to, I mean, you have two probably like people that have
• 49:28
  exited businesses, stood on like they've gone through everything
• 49:32
  you can imagine as a founder or CEO, whatever.
• 49:36
  As soon as you bring up video and social media media to them,
• 49:40
  they curl up into a ball and they they're just like the guard
• 49:43
  goes up and it's for. Why do you think that is?
• 49:47
  I I think that I'm going to the answer to that is all the
• 49:52
  excuses that I had before I started.
• 49:54
  Doing it, yeah, because I know you mentioned that you.
• 49:56
  Which kind of? Surprised me because I thought
• 49:57
  you like, have a good president. You're confident.
• 49:59
  I would think like, oh Jared would naturally just do video.
• 50:01
  Repetition over time, I think, and it's it's.
• 50:04
  What's the what's the mindset going on where you're scared to
• 50:07
  do it and you're not wanting to get on camera?
• 50:09
  I mean, there's, well, I'm going to say the wrong thing.
• 50:13
  I'm going to get judged. People are going to disagree
• 50:15
  with me. You know, my buddies on my text
• 50:19
  chain are going to give me shit like happens all the time,
• 50:23
  right? I so they they create all these
• 50:26
  narratives in their head. Most of them are completely
• 50:28
  false narratives that people are going to judge them and at their
• 50:32
  high level, they've gotten to this point and one bad video can
• 50:36
  completely tank the whole thing how they got here, right?
• 50:39
  And it's just it's we try to help them get out of their own
• 50:43
  way. And and also like I tell them
• 50:46
  like, we get it, like I've been in your shoes.
• 50:48
  We have clients. Yeah, we all have to an extent.
• 50:49
  We want to crawl, walk, run here like we want to get you
• 50:52
  comfortable with it, but most of them won't tell you like I've,
• 50:56
  I've had amazing conversations where I made the sales mistake
• 51:01
  of saying like, I'm gonna I think this one's pretty much a
• 51:04
  lock, right? And the call will go great.
• 51:07
  And then it's crickets after that.
• 51:10
  And I find out like through the back channels, like what
• 51:14
  happened was, yeah, he just didn't want her.
• 51:15
  She just didn't want to do video.
• 51:16
  Video wasn't her thing. Well, wasn't their thing.
• 51:18
  And it's like, all right, well, that's my fault for not finding
• 51:21
  that and making sure I'm asking the right questions to pull that
• 51:23
  out. But it is, I mean, I do think
• 51:27
  that you're going to start seeing is executives become that
• 51:31
  younger generation. I think that they're going to be
• 51:34
  more comfortable being on video and being on social.
• 51:37
  But right now it's just, I mean, that's that's where we are.
• 51:40
  Like video is right up there with like speaking on stage.
• 51:43
  Yeah. One of the scariest things that
• 51:45
  that people. If you were to boil it all down,
• 51:47
  though, what do you think it comes down to?
• 51:48
  Like all those fears and all those.
• 51:50
  I think it's just outside of comfort zone.
• 51:51
  Yeah, at the end of the day, I mean, I, I wish there was a
• 51:55
  better answer. I'll get from my perspective.
• 51:59
  Yeah, let me hear this. Like it's definitely insecurity.
• 52:03
  I mean, if you think about it, for sure it's insecurity, but I
• 52:05
  think it's, I think especially a lot of successful people, I
• 52:10
  think they unfortunately, we've all kind of done this from time
• 52:14
  to time. We kind of place our self worth
• 52:16
  on our success, right? And so it's like, I did this
• 52:19
  business, I became an entrepreneur, I became
• 52:21
  successful, I exited my company, whatever it is, this is me, I am
• 52:25
  this thing, right? And it's like, not really.
• 52:27
  You're probably like a dad or a mom or this or a friend or, you
• 52:30
  know, you're all these other things.
• 52:31
  You're a human being. And then you're Oh yeah, you're
• 52:33
  also an entrepreneur. And I think people put so much
• 52:37
  weight on that, so much value on that.
• 52:39
  And then they see this video thing and they're like, if, if I
• 52:42
  put it out there and it's not good, it's a reflection of me
• 52:45
  who everything I built and my success.
• 52:47
  And I think at the end of the day, man, it comes down to
• 52:50
  people are getting their unfortunately their happiness
• 52:52
  and fulfillment from external validations, which is sad man.
• 52:56
  Because if you really were confident and had self esteem
• 52:59
  and like loved yourself, you wouldn't necessarily care what
• 53:03
  your friend says in the group chat.
• 53:05
  Like like imagine that. And I, I was, I've been there
• 53:08
  one day where I was like people would give me shit for making
• 53:10
  videos way back in the day. I still.
• 53:12
  Get it? I'm sure I I'll get 1 today.
• 53:13
  One of my buddies, yeah. And and I would be like nervous
• 53:16
  about it. My face would get red.
• 53:18
  I would be insecure about it. But now I'd be like, yeah,
• 53:20
  you're damn straight. I created a video.
• 53:21
  Did you did you like it? Did you watch it?
• 53:23
  Subscribe. You know, I'm like, it's a
• 53:25
  totally different demeanor. But what's happened to Jared is
• 53:28
  my purpose has become stronger than my insecurities and my
• 53:32
  fears, right? And I think my level of security
• 53:34
  with myself, my ability to love myself for who I am as a person,
• 53:38
  as a dad, as a creator, as everything, that that some
• 53:41
  outside person or some like group of people, if they don't
• 53:45
  approve me, I don't need their approval.
• 53:47
  I don't need your approval to like my video or to, to if you
• 53:51
  make fun of me, I I don't care. That doesn't affect me as a
• 53:53
  person. Yeah.
• 53:54
  You're not my world, right? Yeah.
• 53:56
  And I think that's what it comes down to.
• 53:57
  I think this shit's deep, dude. It it is very deep.
• 54:01
  Deeper than people like, oh, I don't want videos, you know,
• 54:03
  it's like this. I don't my friend, but it's like
• 54:05
  really, it's some deep ass shit. That's exactly what it is.
• 54:09
  They know it will work. It's like they're like, this is
• 54:12
  where we are today. I have a responsibility to do
• 54:16
  this as this level of executive with my company, but I'm going
• 54:21
  to tell myself all the excuses of why I'm not going to do it.
• 54:24
  And then, but it boils down to what you said when I first
• 54:27
  started doing it. I put, and I've talked about
• 54:31
  this before, but I put underneath my, I have a elevated
• 54:33
  desk underneath it. And I typed this out in big
• 54:37
  letters. We ought to drop an F bomb on
• 54:39
  the show. Yeah, go ahead.
• 54:40
  Dropped it out in big letters underneath.
• 54:42
  And it was like, right, my daughter couldn't read yet.
• 54:44
  My son couldn't read yet. So I was safe.
• 54:46
  Now they can read. Now they see it and they're
• 54:47
  like, OK, just don't say this. And it literally says stop
• 54:50
  giving a fuck what other people think.
• 54:52
  You're not for everyone. And it literally still sitting
• 54:54
  there right now. And it's like, that's it, man.
• 54:57
  It's like, I've got to. And I say I because I still,
• 55:01
  every once in a while, like, I mean, you still have it, but
• 55:04
  it's, you've got to just get out of your own way.
• 55:07
  Yeah. That's what it comes down to.
• 55:08
  Like, if you believe this can work for your company, it's your
• 55:11
  responsibility then to do it. Yeah.
• 55:13
  And if you're not doing it, you got to give me a good reason why
• 55:15
  you're not doing it, because I've yet to hear a good reason
• 55:18
  from an executive of why they're not creating content, especially
• 55:22
  video content. Yeah, it's interesting because
• 55:24
  I've never thought about this before, but I just thought now
• 55:26
  if I were to go back and talk to the Alex of many years ago when
• 55:30
  I first started like dabbling in video, it's actually was before
• 55:32
  2019. I started making some YouTube
• 55:34
  videos and when I was like corporate, this probably 2015
• 55:38
  Aerotech, yeah, staffing recruiting firm doing sales.
• 55:41
  And I was like, I thought video was like important starting to
• 55:44
  become a thing. And like this is before LinkedIn
• 55:45
  even had video. And I started making videos and
• 55:48
  there'd be people in the office that would like kind of give me
• 55:50
  shit for it or like they'd make fun of it or like, why are you
• 55:53
  doing video? Like just even doubting it.
• 55:54
  And I just, I wasn't secured enough.
• 55:56
  I didn't have any results at that point.
• 55:57
  So I would just be like, I would still do it.
• 56:00
  And eventually I stopped doing it because I didn't know what
• 56:02
  the hell I was doing. But I remember being insecure
• 56:03
  about it and I like, I was thinking about if I could go
• 56:06
  back and talk to my Alex, then what would I say?
• 56:10
  And I don't think it'd be anything about video.
• 56:11
  I think it'd be more like what's going on inside you, man, that
• 56:14
  you, you care about what these other people are thinking so
• 56:18
  much like and, and so, and I would just play it out and well,
• 56:21
  what if they think I'm and then what would happen if they think
• 56:24
  you're stupid? But this is this person that you
• 56:26
  love and you want in your life that you're going to be around
• 56:27
  for 20 years. No, then why would they matter?
• 56:30
  Right? And then I think about my kids
• 56:32
  and you'll get, you'll get this because you have kids.
• 56:33
  It's like you see them going to society and you see them start
• 56:37
  to care about what other people think.
• 56:39
  And it almost like hurts me because I'm like, you know, my
• 56:43
  daughter's 11, my oldest or my youngest is 9.
• 56:45
  And it's like you just, you see how they're going in society and
• 56:49
  it's like a natural thing. They start to care about what
• 56:51
  they look in their friends and that's what they say.
• 56:52
  And I don't want to do this because I wouldn't be cool in
• 56:54
  front of them. And it's like you try your best
• 56:56
  to give advice and to give perspective and stories of your
• 57:00
  own experiences. But it's like one of those
• 57:02
  things where it's hard to pass down to people unless you've,
• 57:05
  like, lived it. Yeah.
• 57:06
  You know, it's like you do the best you can, but it's almost
• 57:08
  like, I don't know, it's, it's tough to get through to people.
• 57:10
  It really is. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's funny
• 57:13
  because my son and my daughter both like now, like my son would
• 57:17
  like used to love his shirt, this one shirt.
• 57:19
  Yeah, loved it. It was his number one shirt.
• 57:21
  And then I gave it to him to wear one time and he was like,
• 57:24
  Nah, I don't want to wear it anymore.
• 57:25
  And I found out, like my daughter said, like, yeah,
• 57:28
  somebody made fun of the shirt so he doesn't want to wear it
• 57:29
  anymore. And it's like, like how?
• 57:32
  But but I it's not like am IA hypocrite because maybe I'm like
• 57:37
  the I mean, I was probably the same way.
• 57:39
  Like I like, oh, for sure. Honestly, I I probably cared too
• 57:43
  much and I still probably care too much.
• 57:45
  But until I got like a coach, like a leadership coach that put
• 57:49
  a mirror in front of me, did some more things to what you
• 57:52
  said, like what is what does that mean?
• 57:54
  Like who cares if somebody does this?
• 57:56
  How's that going to affect you? Like, and I really started to
• 57:58
  kind of think through a lot of this stuff when I was like,
• 58:01
  yeah, I get it. So how do I take that learning
• 58:04
  lesson and relay that back to A7 year old or a nine year old in
• 58:09
  their terms so that they can understand it?
• 58:11
  Right. So that's like, I'm still, I'm
• 58:13
  still working through a lot of that stuff.
• 58:14
  Me too. But like it's for me, it's like
• 58:16
  try to get to it before it becomes something.
• 58:19
  Yeah. Meaning like if, if I know that
• 58:22
  he is feeling this because of a certain kid that says this, how
• 58:28
  do I get to it in front like beforehand and be like, listen,
• 58:32
  let's have a lesson. Let's talk through this stuff,
• 58:34
  like actually have conversations about it.
• 58:36
  Yeah, that's what I do too. Yeah, that's.
• 58:38
  And you try to like ingrain things in their mind.
• 58:40
  You know, they've heard enough times.
• 58:41
  My dad always told me that this, you know, it's like they they do
• 58:44
  pick up on things and they also pick up on.
• 58:46
  I heard this expression one time.
• 58:48
  It was like they don't just lessons aren't just taught,
• 58:50
  they're also caught, which means that they catch things from
• 58:53
  being around you. And so how you handle certain
• 58:55
  things where someone pokes finding like that's cool.
• 58:58
  And then you know your kid sees it.
• 59:00
  And like, I would never worry if someone else didn't think what I
• 59:03
  like, what I wear. They make fun of me, like the
• 59:05
  way I react. Exactly.
• 59:06
  Daddy, you're bald. Like, yeah, guess what, That's
• 59:09
  right. Mommy loves it.
• 59:10
  So yeah, you guys just. Want to deal with And you got to
• 59:12
  own it Yeah, it's you. It's who you are.
• 59:14
  That's what Makes You Beautiful. You know, it's like you got to
• 59:16
  you start saying those things around them and they start
• 59:18
  picking up on it. You know, it's interesting, but
• 59:20
  yeah, yeah, man, that whole conversation, there's just a lot
• 59:23
  of people I think that are just holding themselves back because
• 59:26
  they're worried about what other people are going to say.
• 59:27
  Yeah. And unfortunate, you know, and
• 59:29
  we've all been through it and how.
• 59:30
  Do you? How do you they have to want to
• 59:33
  do it for sure. Like that's the thing.
• 59:34
  It's like I can tell you all the benefits of doing it.
• 59:37
  I can give you all the stats and all the numbers and I can show
• 59:39
  you all your competitors that are doing it.
• 59:42
  I can tell you that you're getting left behind.
• 59:44
  I can do all this stuff, but until you're ready to actually
• 59:46
  go full in and commit to it. Right.
• 59:49
  Then it's just not gonna, it's not gonna happen.
• 59:51
  It's not like you can can't half ass it.
• 59:53
  You can't like dip a toe in and see how it is like you.
• 59:58
  I tell people this like this is a lifestyle.
• 1:00:00
  Yeah, for. Sure.
• 1:00:01
  This is a lifestyle. Like you creating content and
• 1:00:03
  being consistent with this in order to make this work.
• 1:00:06
  Like is a lifestyle that means when you're out and about and
• 1:00:09
  something pops in your head like you're grocery shopping, pull
• 1:00:12
  your phone out, write it down. Yeah, like all these different
• 1:00:14
  ideas. Creator Mentality 100.
• 1:00:15
  Percent they have to have that mentality because if they don't.
• 1:00:19
  Want it to work? At a high level?
• 1:00:20
  You do. For sure, for sure.
• 1:00:21
  Do you take time off from social media?
• 1:00:26
  Like, have you ever gone? Yeah, I mean, I you, you asked
• 1:00:29
  Jason this question too a few weeks ago.
• 1:00:32
  I've tried and I think my answer is similar to yours, where I
• 1:00:35
  would post every once in a while on a weekend, but eventually I
• 1:00:38
  was just like, yeah, I'm I'll take the weekend off.
• 1:00:41
  I don't want to post on the weekend.
• 1:00:42
  Like I've got too much shit going on with my kids and like
• 1:00:45
  my personal life and like all this stuff, like I don't want to
• 1:00:47
  have to worry about it. I have a queue of stuff that I
• 1:00:49
  could post like but so weekend I I don't like.
• 1:00:53
  So, but even that, though, do you feel the energy?
• 1:00:55
  Because I know I do. And I'll, I'll talk about, I'm
• 1:00:56
  going to take two weeks off of posting.
• 1:00:59
  I've never done in six years my entire creator career.
• 1:01:02
  Exactly. But what's funny, that's what
• 1:01:04
  you just said there. There's an energy that comes in
• 1:01:06
  if you're not careful. And this is part of why I want
• 1:01:08
  to do it. Yeah.
• 1:01:09
  It's that energy of scarcity. Yes.
• 1:01:12
  It's that frequency of like, wait a second, I'm missing out.
• 1:01:15
  I should be posting on social media every day.
• 1:01:19
  I shouldn't go a week or two without posting.
• 1:01:21
  What's going to happen been, are people going to not think I'm
• 1:01:24
  around anymore? Am I going to become irrelevant?
• 1:01:27
  But that's a scarcity mentality. That's not an abundance
• 1:01:30
  mentality. That's not a putting yourself
• 1:01:32
  first mentality. And in terms of your mental
• 1:01:34
  health and your health in general.
• 1:01:36
  So like I was, I was like, should I take a week or two off?
• 1:01:39
  And I'm actually, we're travelling, we're going out of
• 1:01:41
  town and I'm taking some time off of work.
• 1:01:43
  And it's the first time in six years that I'm not taking my
• 1:01:45
  laptop with me. Good for you.
• 1:01:47
  And I'm plugging all my apps away into a vacation folder.
• 1:01:50
  I'm not checking e-mail and it's 5 working days and then a
• 1:01:53
  weekend in there and that's a big deal for an.
• 1:01:55
  I would start twitching right like a few hours.
• 1:01:59
  But part of me like, had to reconcile with myself and be
• 1:02:02
  like, this is OK. Yeah, like you do you.
• 1:02:07
  And what's funny, man? And you probably would agree
• 1:02:08
  with this. You know you, we both known
• 1:02:10
  people that have gone away for two weeks, 3 weeks, a month, six
• 1:02:14
  months came back. It's like they're never gone.
• 1:02:16
  Yeah, they had a good post. Oh, they're back.
• 1:02:18
  Or where were? They did you recognize that they
• 1:02:20
  were even gone is a question exactly like.
• 1:02:22
  So it's like we see it and we're OK with that, but then if we try
• 1:02:27
  to do even a fraction of that, we're like punishing ourselves,
• 1:02:30
  shaming ourselves. I would start itching, right?
• 1:02:33
  We start going through these. Oh my gosh, I couldn't do that.
• 1:02:35
  I why? You know, I've set my business
• 1:02:39
  up to a point where like it can run absolutely for a week and a
• 1:02:41
  half, two weeks without me and be just fine.
• 1:02:42
  I can stop posting. I'm choosing to not post.
• 1:02:45
  My podcast content will actually still post because I have a team
• 1:02:47
  that does all that and I don't have to do anything.
• 1:02:49
  So that will still go out. This is the last episode before
• 1:02:52
  I go on break. Everything's going to run.
• 1:02:54
  There's automation. There's things in place too,
• 1:02:56
  right? Like the business is good, we
• 1:02:57
  have the team, why not? You're good.
• 1:03:00
  And it's like sometimes you just have to give yourself that
• 1:03:02
  permission and say, I'm going to do me.
• 1:03:05
  And at the end of the day, at the end of my life, I'm going to
• 1:03:07
  be glad that I spent the time I did with my kids, that I spent,
• 1:03:10
  that I took the trip I needed to take, that I took time off I,
• 1:03:12
  when I wanted to, that I explored the passion I wanted
• 1:03:15
  to. I started the business.
• 1:03:16
  I'm not going to look back and be like, I'm glad I never took
• 1:03:18
  two weeks off from posting on social media.
• 1:03:21
  Like, I'm definitely not going to say that.
• 1:03:22
  That's what I mean, like, God, dude, I, it's, it's the way
• 1:03:26
  we're so crazy, so bad. It's so bad.
• 1:03:28
  Like because I'm like, OK, well, if I take two weeks off, right,
• 1:03:33
  does that mean the algorithm's going to fuck me when I come
• 1:03:35
  back? And it's not, no, of course it's
• 1:03:37
  not. Or like so we've got.
• 1:03:39
  I'm interested to follow up with you when you get back.
• 1:03:42
  Yeah. Because like, we've got a we're
• 1:03:45
  surprising our kids and doing a Disney thing in October.
• 1:03:47
  Next. Nice.
• 1:03:48
  We did it a couple years. Ago right so it's like we're
• 1:03:50
  gonna be there for five or six days I'm not gonna post at all I
• 1:03:54
  I will not post on that trip like I just want to like log off
• 1:03:58
  like all the headaches that I have like this.
• 1:04:02
  I don't want to deal with any of that shit.
• 1:04:03
  I just want to log out. So I'm interested to see how I
• 1:04:06
  handle that. Like if I'm like oh this could
• 1:04:08
  be a good post, I'm just going to throw it and I don't well.
• 1:04:10
  And then there's not, there's not posting and then there's not
• 1:04:12
  checking social media emails. There's a whole.
• 1:04:14
  You're going to do that? Yeah, I'm doing everything.
• 1:04:16
  That's good. So that's that's the other.
• 1:04:17
  And I'm telling my team like be. Prepared.
• 1:04:19
  I don't want to check. Call me if there's an emergency,
• 1:04:21
  but we're not doctors like no one's life is.
• 1:04:23
  Yeah, be at stake if something happens with their.
• 1:04:26
  Market checking social media is like, if you're, I don't know,
• 1:04:29
  I'm trying to think of the most appropriate way without using
• 1:04:33
  because I'm going to use a crack addict and you're just putting
• 1:04:36
  like checking social media. It's like, OK, I'm done, I'm
• 1:04:38
  done with it. And then somebody goes, puts it
• 1:04:41
  right in front of you. Yeah, it's like, that's pretty
• 1:04:43
  good. That's why I'm moving all the
• 1:04:45
  apps to a vacation folder, so it's gonna be several screens
• 1:04:48
  away. So.
• 1:04:48
  You're going all I'm doing. Where are you going?
• 1:04:51
  Mackinac Island, Mackinac Island and then traverse.
• 1:04:53
  City. That's awesome.
• 1:04:54
  We went to Traverse last. Year.
• 1:04:55
  Yeah. So there's no, you can't break a
• 1:04:57
  car on this island, Mackinac Island, so you got to take a
• 1:05:00
  ferry over there and I'm like, this is exactly what we need.
• 1:05:02
  Perfect. So it's going to be so nice,
• 1:05:04
  man. I'm looking forward to it but
• 1:05:05
  yeah, it's weird. I think I'm in a good place now.
• 1:05:07
  I think I used to care more earlier on.
• 1:05:10
  I think six years into it I'm like kind of have some calluses
• 1:05:14
  and I'm kind of like I'm cool with it.
• 1:05:15
  What? Point like if you think about,
• 1:05:16
  so you've had this business for six years, so I started mine in.
• 1:05:21
  Let's see over five years, not six years.
• 1:05:24
  So we started ours in 2022 and there's still we have growing
• 1:05:28
  pains every like it just it's a crazy.
• 1:05:31
  But at what point were you like in that over that spam where
• 1:05:36
  you're like, OK, I feel good like this is this is going to
• 1:05:40
  make it like this is this is me right now where you're just
• 1:05:45
  like, you don't wake up wondering like fuck, do I need
• 1:05:48
  to go get a job like. Oh no, I definitely don't do
• 1:05:50
  that. I don't know if I ever had that
• 1:05:52
  mindset though. But I will tell you this.
• 1:05:55
  So mine was kind of like maybe reversed to some people.
• 1:05:58
  Like my first 10-12 months was like riding high.
• 1:06:02
  It was like I had my LinkedIn video boot camp.
• 1:06:03
  It was COVID 2020. I just quit my job.
• 1:06:06
  It's like everyone was trying to get online, do video and I had
• 1:06:09
  this one product and it worked really well for a time being,
• 1:06:12
  but there was no recurring revenue.
• 1:06:14
  I didn't know anything about business.
• 1:06:15
  I was like a very new entrepreneur.
• 1:06:17
  And so my first year was like, this is great.
• 1:06:19
  I almost had like I was naive. I was like, oh, this is great.
• 1:06:22
  Everything we're going to blow up, we're going to do this,
• 1:06:23
  this, this. And then year two hit like 12
• 1:06:26
  months in, maybe. Yeah, 12 months in and leads
• 1:06:29
  slowed down for a little bit just because that happens in
• 1:06:32
  sales and business. Like you don't have months, like
• 1:06:34
  you don't just stack every single month for the rest of
• 1:06:36
  eternity. It's like you have slow months
• 1:06:37
  and quarters and what not. And so like, and even the leads
• 1:06:40
  I had, the ones I thought it was for sure going to close, fell
• 1:06:43
  through just like different random shit out of my control
• 1:06:45
  sometimes. And then I was like two or three
• 1:06:48
  months for like it, it was just like hardly any revenue.
• 1:06:50
  It was really tough. This was 2021 and I, we just
• 1:06:53
  moved into a bigger, somewhat nicer place.
• 1:06:56
  And it was just like, I felt the pressure of like, man, what the
• 1:06:59
  hell is going on? Like everything I thought I knew
• 1:07:02
  about entrepreneurship and the business and the product, like
• 1:07:05
  seemed like it just went out the window.
• 1:07:07
  But in that moment, I was never like, should I get a job?
• 1:07:10
  It was always like. Did you reinvent?
• 1:07:12
  Yes, I reinvented, yes, I was like, I, I always looked.
• 1:07:16
  I was like, there's no fucking way.
• 1:07:17
  I'm going back to get you. Like there's no way.
• 1:07:19
  But I was, I was always, I was praying.
• 1:07:21
  I was just like, and I wasn't even a super religious person,
• 1:07:23
  but I remember just being like, I need some help.
• 1:07:25
  I'm going to do my part. I'm going to work my ass off.
• 1:07:27
  I'm going to, you know, create other offerings.
• 1:07:29
  I evolved the business. I found ways to get recurring
• 1:07:31
  revenue, but it was a rough period of time.
• 1:07:34
  And I've had a couple of those, right?
• 1:07:35
  But I think you get to maybe 3-4 years in where you're kind of
• 1:07:39
  like, I feel like I'm in a place now where you always have
• 1:07:42
  challenges and you'll have other just different types of
• 1:07:44
  challenges. But I feel like you to a certain
• 1:07:46
  point when you become an entrepreneur and you've been
• 1:07:48
  doing it long enough where you're like, I know how to
• 1:07:51
  figure shit out now. So even if my business went away
• 1:07:54
  tomorrow, I actually could start a new business.
• 1:07:56
  I could start a podcast production company tomorrow, you
• 1:07:58
  know, or I could start a business consulting company
• 1:08:00
  tomorrow And I would like know how to market it, sell it, build
• 1:08:03
  in recurrent revenue, like the skill of entrepreneurship you've
• 1:08:07
  built After a few years, it gives you a little more
• 1:08:09
  confidence like, hey, if times, if it does, if I run into a
• 1:08:12
  rocky time period, I'm going to get through it because I've done
• 1:08:14
  it a million times, but also like I've got the skills to
• 1:08:17
  build or change or pivot. Yeah, maybe maybe the way I
• 1:08:20
  phrased the question of going to get a job, like maybe that's not
• 1:08:23
  it, but it's like where you felt good about the direction you
• 1:08:25
  were going because I think that like being as part of this like
• 1:08:29
  EO community in Chicago, like being surrounded by
• 1:08:31
  entrepreneurs, it was always, you always heard like, OK,
• 1:08:34
  listen, you're going to grow, you're going to hit a plateau,
• 1:08:37
  right? The plateau is where you need to
• 1:08:40
  like you can't mope. You got your power through it.
• 1:08:42
  You have to reinvent yourself. You have to rake what you're
• 1:08:45
  doing totally and fix it, rebuild it in a different way,
• 1:08:48
  whatever that is. So it's.
• 1:08:49
  Going to be hard to challenge you.
• 1:08:50
  We've been. Doing this like, right.
• 1:08:51
  And we're kind of on a plateau now and we're just, we're doing
• 1:08:53
  it. We're going through the process,
• 1:08:55
  we're fixing, we're adding stuff, we're pulling stuff away.
• 1:08:58
  Like we're figuring out who our real ICP is like and all this.
• 1:09:03
  So it's good. It's just like, it's such a
• 1:09:05
  mental like, man, like we were doing so good and all of a
• 1:09:09
  sudden it was like. Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  And then you'll you'll have doubt creep in too, where you're
• 1:09:13
  like, if you haven't been doing it long enough, it's easier when
• 1:09:15
  you do it when you've been doing a little bit longer because you
• 1:09:17
  know how to fight that off. And you're like, look, is my
• 1:09:20
  business the right thing? Is it going to be a good product
• 1:09:22
  or service? Yes, Like we know this.
• 1:09:24
  Keep fighting, make some changes maybe, but keep going.
• 1:09:26
  First, in the beginning we were like, you start doubting.
• 1:09:29
  You're just like, I don't even know this is the right thing.
• 1:09:30
  This is not the right offer. You know, you start just going
• 1:09:32
  through this mental model of like, oh, shit, your confidence
• 1:09:34
  drops a little bit, you know? Yeah.
• 1:09:36
  But I think it takes a few years to really get like your yeah,
• 1:09:39
  your foundation, man. It's tough.
• 1:09:41
  It's and even then it's not That's.
• 1:09:42
  It's never easy. Yeah.
• 1:09:44
  Because then you have other challenges.
• 1:09:45
  You know what, I'll say this. I go every once in a while, go
• 1:09:48
  meet up with people that I used to work with that are all doing
• 1:09:51
  their own, like, not their own thing, but working for other
• 1:09:53
  companies. Yeah.
• 1:09:53
  And IT I rarely hear at this point, like how you doing?
• 1:09:58
  We happy? No, fucking sucks.
• 1:10:01
  Yeah. And like, I'm thinking to
• 1:10:02
  myself, they're like, well, what about you?
• 1:10:04
  You happy? I'm like, yeah, yeah, like I'm
• 1:10:06
  good, dude. Like, yeah, we have struggles,
• 1:10:08
  but like, yeah, it's good, right.
• 1:10:10
  And it's like, that's that's I just always tell myself that
• 1:10:14
  like, just keep doing what you're doing.
• 1:10:17
  Like don't don't go work for another at a company and do all
• 1:10:20
  that stuff. It just it, it would feel, at
• 1:10:23
  least to me, like it would be a step back.
• 1:10:24
  You know what? I'll probably make a shit ton
• 1:10:26
  more money doing it. Right, which is maybe in the
• 1:10:28
  short term in. The short term in the short
• 1:10:30
  term, but yeah, I don't know. It's good.
• 1:10:32
  I, I, it's, it's not like that I'm doubting.
• 1:10:35
  It's just, it's just one of those things like we're on a
• 1:10:36
  plateau right now, dude. So total my head space.
• 1:10:38
  You're gonna, you'll be up again and then you'll be on another
• 1:10:41
  plateau in a while. And then we've been there a
• 1:10:42
  million times. Yeah, and it's definitely one of
• 1:10:45
  those things where like as an entrepreneur, you can never
• 1:10:46
  compare yourself to other entrepreneurs.
• 1:10:48
  So because I've made that mistake too, where I'm like,
• 1:10:50
  man, they're scaling 8 figures and seven feet and all this
• 1:10:52
  stuff. It's like I don't want their
• 1:10:53
  fucking life. I don't care.
• 1:10:55
  I'm happy. I love what I do.
• 1:10:57
  I have purpose behind it. I'm fulfilled by it.
• 1:10:59
  I love the relationship I have with my family, my kids, my
• 1:11:01
  loved ones. I'm enjoying what I'm doing
• 1:11:03
  everyday. We've got enough money.
• 1:11:05
  It's like, I love this because here's the thing, you say, oh,
• 1:11:08
  this guy's got this or this girl's got this business and
• 1:11:11
  they've scaled it so much faster than me or whatever it is.
• 1:11:14
  We play these games. It takes away from our own joy,
• 1:11:16
  right? But then in reality, you hear
• 1:11:17
  like a year later, that person's like miserable.
• 1:11:19
  Their family felt they're like that and now they're doing
• 1:11:21
  something totally different. They're soul searching.
• 1:11:23
  It's like I wanted what they want.
• 1:11:25
  What I wanted was them. But in reality, they were
• 1:11:28
  missing what I had from day one that they had to go through all
• 1:11:30
  the stuff. And now they're on the track to
• 1:11:32
  try to get what I had that from the day one.
• 1:11:34
  Yeah, sure dude. I mean it's crazy.
• 1:11:36
  It's the people that post the happiest family pics on
• 1:11:39
  Instagram and then you kind of. Dude, there's skeletons in the
• 1:11:43
  clouds. 100% like not not everything is as it seems for
• 1:11:47
  sure. And I agree with you like the
• 1:11:48
  comparison game is and that trap sucks.
• 1:11:52
  And I know it's like, oh, you see, like you got an 8 figure
• 1:11:54
  business, a huge team or company, you're just gonna sell
• 1:11:56
  it. It's like cool.
• 1:11:57
  But there's a lot of shit that comes with that and there's a
• 1:12:00
  lot of sacrifices. And I picked my girls up from
• 1:12:02
  school two or three days a week and shit.
• 1:12:04
  Like, I wouldn't be doing that if I had a software startup that
• 1:12:07
  I was grinding for 16 hours a day.
• 1:12:09
  You know, it's like, so you got to do you, Yeah.
• 1:12:12
  For sure, for sure. My, I mean, my wife, my wife's
• 1:12:15
  an attorney and she, she's a lawyer.
• 1:12:18
  She's an employment law. She's been with her firm for a
• 1:12:20
  little over 20 years and she's seen, we've talked about this,
• 1:12:25
  she's seen people that were other firms maybe making more
• 1:12:29
  just grinding, working so much and not home and all this stuff.
• 1:12:32
  And it was like, she's like, that's just not what I want.
• 1:12:34
  No. She's like, I like the fact that
• 1:12:36
  I can work from home and I can take the kids to basketball or
• 1:12:39
  dance or whatever they're doing. It's like so yeah, for sure.
• 1:12:42
  I mean, that's it's so important.
• 1:12:44
  Yeah. Because when we all do look back
• 1:12:45
  on it in the end when the time fucking.
• 1:12:48
  Comes dude. That's it.
• 1:12:49
  That's what matters. Like, what are you gonna fucking
• 1:12:51
  remember you grinding your ass off to make money?
• 1:12:53
  Like right? Or the fact that you got to
• 1:12:55
  spend all this time with the people that actually fucking
• 1:12:57
  mattered. Exactly, man.
• 1:12:58
  So I got one more question for you.
• 1:13:00
  I'm so glad we went this conversation because I feel like
• 1:13:02
  there's a lot of people listening that are going through
• 1:13:04
  similar stuff. What is your take on in house
• 1:13:07
  marketing versus done for you? Because I know we might disagree
• 1:13:10
  a little bit here, but you know, do you think companies should be
• 1:13:13
  doing their own marketing or do you think companies should be
• 1:13:14
  outsourcing to a marketing agency?
• 1:13:16
  So here is where I'm at on this. I think that if you are a
• 1:13:21
  company that views this is important, like again, building
• 1:13:24
  this and let's just keep it in the executive founder LED
• 1:13:29
  conversation and you have the resources and you have the money
• 1:13:36
  and you have all the stuff to bring this internally and do it
• 1:13:38
  on your own internally. Absolutely you should do it on
• 1:13:42
  your own internally. Like for example, like if
• 1:13:44
  somebody's like, hey, we want to level up, we're gonna, we need
• 1:13:47
  help hiring A-Team. We see value in this.
• 1:13:50
  We want to do this right? 100% bring you guys in like
• 1:13:53
  that. That's a no brainer, right?
• 1:13:57
  But if you don't have the resources or maybe you have an
• 1:14:00
  entire marketing or growth team internally and you don't want
• 1:14:02
  them focusing on this, right, because it's your personal
• 1:14:05
  brand, whatever that ends up being.
• 1:14:06
  Yeah. And you like having that outside
• 1:14:09
  perspective on stuff because I mean, these companies are in
• 1:14:12
  bubbles, right? Sometimes it just takes a basic
• 1:14:14
  voice from the outside to help them out with from strategy
• 1:14:18
  standpoint. And you don't wanna hire
• 1:14:20
  somebody full time then yeah, like outsource that to an
• 1:14:23
  agency. And you know what?
• 1:14:25
  If they're performing and they're doing their job and
• 1:14:27
  they're not creating shit content, Yeah, exactly.
• 1:14:29
  You're gonna see the benefit of it, right?
• 1:14:31
  And there's tons of listen, we're not perfect.
• 1:14:34
  We have clients. Most of our clients will tell
• 1:14:37
  you that like they love working with us every once in a while.
• 1:14:39
  Yes, we may trip and fall and. For sure, so do we.
• 1:14:42
  Yeah, whatever that is, right? And it's not great.
• 1:14:44
  But I think for the most part like our clients are happy that
• 1:14:48
  they're working with us because they view us as an extension of
• 1:14:50
  their internal team and they rely on us for a lot, right.
• 1:14:54
  So I, I think if you have the resources, the means to be able
• 1:14:59
  to bring somebody in and you can do this internally 100%, yeah,
• 1:15:03
  absolutely. That should be the number one.
• 1:15:06
  But if you don't and you like having that agency that can come
• 1:15:09
  and do really good work for you, then yeah, that's what it is.
• 1:15:12
  And what makes you say in house is so much better if you can do
• 1:15:14
  it? Just so I look at the content
• 1:15:17
  that you create like you're on site, you've got your clients
• 1:15:21
  like they're on site and I see some of your client and stuff,
• 1:15:24
  you know, they're on site, they're shooting their own stuff
• 1:15:26
  like that's great content, but a lot of that has to do with
• 1:15:30
  people getting out of their own way.
• 1:15:31
  Going back to what we talked about, right.
• 1:15:32
  So it's very different than what we're doing is that podcast
• 1:15:36
  style interview. Like we've we've trained teams
• 1:15:38
  on how to do that. Like, yeah, we've done, we've
• 1:15:40
  worked with a client for for, you know, six months, let's say,
• 1:15:43
  and they're like, hey, could you train like a coach on our team
• 1:15:47
  how to do this? Yes, 100% yeah.
• 1:15:49
  So we may lose that client, right?
• 1:15:51
  They may use our creative team. Sure.
• 1:15:53
  The the editors and and designers, yeah.
• 1:15:55
  And what, what moving forward, But if they can run that process
• 1:15:59
  internally on their own, then they should do it on their own.
• 1:16:01
  Why not? Yeah.
• 1:16:03
  So I just, I think that you're the type of content that you're
• 1:16:06
  creating from an in house perspective.
• 1:16:08
  And I've worked for companies that had an in house
• 1:16:12
  videographer, had an in house content team.
• 1:16:15
  And we, when I worked there, we put out really, really good
• 1:16:18
  shit. Like it was next level.
• 1:16:21
  Like are are we at Outworks helping put on next level shit?
• 1:16:25
  No, Yeah, like we're helping you just be consistently putting out
• 1:16:28
  really good content. Makes sense, yeah.
• 1:16:30
  But I I do, I do think that like the day in the life stuff like
• 1:16:34
  the things that you're posting like that is eventually I could
• 1:16:39
  see that being where the future is for a lot of these content
• 1:16:42
  creators. Like you're like you're shooting
• 1:16:44
  shit in the car when you're driving to the airport or
• 1:16:46
  whatever that is, like like when you're landing, like all this
• 1:16:49
  stuff like that's cool content, like the people will pay
• 1:16:51
  attention to that. And that also looks different,
• 1:16:55
  like, right, it's it looks different.
• 1:16:56
  Not in listen because there's going to be style interviews or
• 1:16:59
  great our clients like it, but that's like a level up, right?
• 1:17:03
  That's because how, how much in the future, how long is it
• 1:17:05
  before there's just avatars, AI avatars?
• 1:17:08
  Or you give it what you want to say and then it's just like, it
• 1:17:10
  looks like Jerry. Well, they're like Jerry.
• 1:17:12
  They're there now, but they're not, they're, they're not the
• 1:17:14
  quality. You have to like sit for like 4
• 1:17:16
  hours like we've looked at it. And like, so we, you're gonna
• 1:17:19
  say we have to get an executive to sit in front of the camera
• 1:17:22
  and talk for four hours to get the motions and everything down.
• 1:17:26
  And still it's not perfect yet, right?
• 1:17:28
  They're, we're not gonna be able to talk somebody into doing this
• 1:17:30
  right now. Like they're just, I don't think
• 1:17:32
  the world is ready for it yet. Yeah.
• 1:17:35
  But it will be at some. Point it's coming soon.
• 1:17:37
  But I like what you said, though, how you're gonna train
• 1:17:40
  them, the way you follow people around and do all that.
• 1:17:43
  That's gonna be a way to separate from those digital
• 1:17:47
  twins that are out there. Yep, exactly, man.
• 1:17:50
  This has been a great conversation, dude.
• 1:17:51
  I appreciate you being here, man.
• 1:17:52
  Yeah, this has been great. I'm so glad that we took a
• 1:17:54
  little bit of a different route, but it was a good unexpected
• 1:17:58
  turn. So where can people find,
• 1:18:00
  connect, learn more about what you guys do and what you're up
• 1:18:02
  to? Yeah.
• 1:18:02
  So let's see we can my LinkedIn profile like post all the time
• 1:18:08
  on LinkedIn outworks dot IO is our website.
• 1:18:11
  We've got a podcast with two other guys too called businesses
• 1:18:15
  bullshit where we John is John. Yeah, John, who you've
• 1:18:19
  interviewed before, John Sarakis.
• 1:18:21
  Tell myself what's up. Yeah, I will for sure.
• 1:18:23
  John and then James Hornick, who is formerly of Hirewell, left
• 1:18:26
  last week. We just rant on shit in the
• 1:18:30
  business world that needs to be dumped on.
• 1:18:32
  Like, and it's it's most, it's stuff that most people agree
• 1:18:35
  with. Yeah, but we just kind of talk
• 1:18:37
  about it. And it's definitely rated R
• 1:18:39
  podcast, very similar like so it's fun And and honestly, if
• 1:18:43
  nobody ever listened to it, we just enjoy having conversations
• 1:18:45
  with each other. So that's it, yeah.
• 1:18:47
  So that's it. Business is bullshit.
• 1:18:48
  Podcast outworks that IO and then my LinkedIn.
• 1:18:51
  Cool, we'll link everything up in the description too.
• 1:18:53
  I appreciate you being here. Awesome.
• 1:18:55
  Yeah, this been. Great.
• 1:18:55
  Appreciate, but thanks man.