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How To Get Media Coverage - Ali Wunderman · Hospitality Daily Podcast

• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for taking some time to chat here.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: There's so much we can talk about, I know, but I wonder if we talk a little bit about what you do.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: You're, in a word, winning travel journalist.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Tell me just a high level kind of how you spend your time these days, and then we'll get into it and just add a high level.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about sounds good.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you for having me here.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: It's really fun to talk about these things and talk about it with someone who knows the industry.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: It's a very insider industry sometimes, yeah, so what I do is I'm a freelance travel journalist.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I write about destinations, hotels, restaurants, anything that a traveler might be interested in, from planning a trip to the industry itself to investigations in the industry, the whole gambit predominantly destination coverage, including the hotels, restaurants, activities et cetera.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: But I travel the world finding stories and then write about those stories for magazines and newspapers, mostly in the US.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: So you may have seen me in on the cover of Hemisphere's magazine or on Forbes or Connie Nass Traveler, written for over 80 publications at this point during my career.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: But I mostly do that Write about places in the world.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: It seems like the dream job, right it's.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Also it's a lot of work as well.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of work.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I'm curious because you've written for so many publications and we'll link in the show notes to your portfolio and some of the stories that you've done.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: But you work with a wide range of publications.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Do you notice a big difference between these different publications or is everybody kind of looking for, kind of like the inside scoop there's?
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: definitely an emphasis on trends.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Everyone wants to be the first to report on a particular trend, which, in my opinion, can actually create the trend.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Sometimes something's not a trend but when it's reported on, people see it as a trend and it is created.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: But I would say most publications are looking for novelty.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: It's news, after all.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: They want to do something new, they want to tell stories that haven't been told before.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: The tone can change from one publication to another.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: The focus, of course.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Some are focused on food and wine, some are focused on specifically hotels, some are focused on just one city.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: It can depend based on the publication, but generally the content has that undercurrent of novelty in it.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: How do you approach looking for kind of what's new?
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: What have you found to be useful in your process?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: It's hard because a lot of the places that I'll visit are very old.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I'm going to Athens later this month and that's one of the oldest destinations in the world, let alone cities.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: So I try to just go with what I'm interested in, because there's a lot of topics out there, a lot of them, that I wouldn't necessarily cover because I'm not interested in them.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I haven't come across them, it hasn't shown up in my feed, whether that's in social media or in real life.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: So I try to stick with the topics that interest me personally and then dive deep on those, regardless of the destination, and that helps me focus my work instead of trying to do everything all the time for everyone, which the beginning of my career was definitely that, and now it's a little bit more focused.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: But I stay on top of other news sites.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: I work with a lot of publicists who will share exclusive stories or new stuff with me, but mostly it's an ear to the ground type of thing Just have conversations with people and if something sounds interesting, follow that trail.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So I can only imagine you must be inundated with so many pitches, and I feel like I'm kind of new to this.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I'm just starting to see what happens here.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: What do you feel like hospitality providers misunderstand about travel journalism?
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm sure everybody wants your you know to write a feature story on them.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: What are some of the kind of misconceptions that you want to kind of set the record straight on?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: That's.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I love having the opportunity to share this because ultimately, I think it benefits hospitality providers to understand how to work with journalists.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I gave a speech on this for the Belize Hotel Association how to work with media Because it is a little inscrutable, it's a little bit.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: If you know, you know and I'm happy to provide that information because it's also better for me.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: But I want hotels with great stories to be able to get those stories out there.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: So I think one of the big misconceptions is that travel journalists and travel influencers are the same thing.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, when properties, destinations, work with influencers, they're often paying for their time, they're paying for their expenses, they're paying for a message that they want out there.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: It's more controlled.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Where travel journalists are still journalists, the job is still ultimately to uncover the truth, even if that truth is very positive, even if that truth is, this is the best hotel to visit in this destination.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: It's not something you can buy and it's not something you can control.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: And so I think that is the biggest misconception is that journalists can be bought and controlled and, simply put, that is, if you want to control or buy a particular story, you need to buy an ad.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: You need to pay for that.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I even got an email yesterday asking how much it would cost to pay me to write an article for a particular publication and when I said I don't do that, they were shocked.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: So I know the water has been a little bit muddied by content creation and influencing, but travel journalism is still fundamentally journalism and in working with hotels and hospitality providers, I think it's best that they approach it collaboratively.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: They have an interesting story to tell.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Their job is to try to get the attention of the media to tell that story and I'm happy to do so.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: But I won't be paid by them to do so and I won't say word for word what it is that they're trying to get me to say.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I'll just say what it is, what the truth is.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: So I want to pull on a couple threads there.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I think there is that distinction is so important, and I spent my career as a marketer and the reality is, if you're in charge of marketing for this hotel or this travel association, you have to kind of think about what is the goal here.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Are we trying to get more guests?
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: There's also a lot of B2B marketing that goes on too.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Are we trying to get the attention of collaborators or investors or even talent to work at our company?
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: So you have to kind of start with that strategic mindset before then you think about how this plays out.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: But then to your point, also thinking about the capacity with which you're collaborating with different people, because maybe there's an opportunity to be like okay, we'll work on a story, but it's almost like a marketing and we're explicit about that.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: We're creating some internal marketing.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: For us versus a travel journalist is a whole different relationship.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, right.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think with marketing.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I used to be in marketing as well in a past life and you're right, you have to set those goals.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: And then there are outlets for marketing.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: There are ads, there are influencers, there are ways to get that message out there in a controlled way that you pay for, and that exists.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: And then there is the realm of publicity and media, and that is what it is as well, and so I do think that distinction is important because, ultimately, all of us are traveling around, going to the same places, and the experience can be quite similar, but the outcome is different.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: And the other thing that you mentioned that really caught my attention was there are hospitality providers and others in the travel ecosystem that have stories worth talking about, and I think that notion of creating something worth talking about is worth underscoring as well, because I think many times if you're working in a business, maybe what you think, what you have, is so special, but the reality is you kind of work in this role for long enough and we might almost get like a little jaded because everybody thinks they're a special snowflake and like you need to be really honest with yourself.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Do you have something differentiated?
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Right and I think that I totally support people working in hospitality being stoked on their product.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: They should be.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: You can tell when they're not and it comes through.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: You can tell sometimes they'll work with a publicist and you can tell the publicist does not believe whatsoever what they're saying.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: I worked there's a hotel in Belize called Shaw Creek that I really really like.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I'm close friends with the owners after going there lots of times and I stayed at the hotel once and they had given me a list of what they thought was interesting and then when I went into the room there was a butterfly cocoon in a box and after two days the butterfly would come out and you get to release the butterfly into the surrounding rainforest and I thought that's incredible.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I ended up selling a story to travel and leisure about it.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: They had no idea that that was story worthy, and so I love when hotels can identify or destinations can identify what makes them special.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Tell me, because I am getting two 300 emails a day from publicists, from hospitality providers, saying can you write about this?
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I don't read them all anymore.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I used to reply to them, then I stopped replying to all of them.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Then I used to read.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: All of them had to stop doing that.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: But I am inundated with trivia every single day, and so picking apart what I can then sell and package as an interesting story is a lot of work for me.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: So when they can do some of that work, when they can really identify what makes them stand out from the next place, makes my life a lot easier and it makes me more keen on working with them in the future, because ultimately I'm going to get paid for telling stories, and if I don't have stories to tell, I'm not going to get paid.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: So it's good for us to be able to build that relationship of reliability of they really know what makes a good story, and it's something that I can package and bring to the media In a way that people will want to read about, and if that generates guests for them, that's great.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: That's their goal.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: My goal is to tell a good story, and Figuring out what that is is critical for hospitality providers who want to work with the media makes everything a lot more efficient.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I'm curious.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: You talk to a lot of people and is there a common thread between the people that are creating like that sort of the butterfly is really interesting, right?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious if, personality wise or their creative process, have you picked up on A common trade or approach of these people in these organizations that are building really kind of special experiences?
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's anyone.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe the trade would be passion, their passion about their destination, about what they've built.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I do find that this is often the case in boutique properties where there isn't an overarching brand Saying this is the way that it should be.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: But I, people who are just really committed to the hospitality in and of itself of creating an experience that guests will enjoy Whether it's something that you can see in going to a friend's house party With the host, if the host is really excited about having guests, it's a better experience and that translates, that scales up all the way to a three hundred room hotel.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: When that hotel is excited to share what they've created with their guests, you can feel that.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: So that passion for hospitality has to be first and foremost.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I think that's true in the, in the culture of the organization, but also on a personal level right, and that's that's important for our listeners to remember.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: It's like not only good for you personally, because we all spent a lot of time at work, so if you're not passionate about it, she probably find something that that you are a little more aligned with.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: But I think for the leaders it's really important to kind of develop this culture, work collectively.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: We care about this thing in that, you know, I imagine that enables better brainstorming around here's new For sure, and I think that translates to the way the business is run as well, because it's difficult to find front of house staff and it's difficult to ask people to be as passionate as you are when they're making quite a bit less money.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: And I think that a good staff culture comes through with great hospitality.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: You're going to have a better experience as a guest when you're being greeted by people who are genuinely excited to be greeting you.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: That's just a fact of life, yeah yeah, I want to go back a little bit to you know that what makes a great pitch or a great kind of when reaching out?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Because I feel this is actually a really important skill, not just to get coverage for the sake of it, but I feel, if you know you're going through all this work to create something really special, it's almost like part of that process is investing the time to introduce that to others right, and part of introducing that is working with people like yourself to make make you aware that this special thing has been created.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: And I'm curious, you know there's.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: You know for decades people have been doing, you know press releases and things like that.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I'm curious if there's any common thread between the pitches that you find most helpful for people reaching out to you.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: There is something to be said for people who make a personalized press release.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, I work with public relations people and the ones that figure out the relationship part I tend to work with more.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I tend to publish their stories more because I like working with them or I like working with their client.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Again, I'm getting hundreds of emails a day if it's from someone who I've worked with reliably reliably in the past, whether that's been them getting me assets and quotes on a timely manner.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm being contacted by a publication To run a story and I need it now, and that's not always going to work for the client, but when I know that they've taken the time to help me or to craft a pitch that is personalized, I cover things like sustainability, wildlife, adventure, travel quite a bit, and when I get a pitch from a publicist that acknowledges that, it's much more likely that I'm at least going to read the rest of the pitch, if not build a relationship with them, and the same goes for for any other touch point of the process.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I I've actually, in fact, in the last year or so, really Cut down who I'll work with, because there's a lot of people who see me as a means to an end for their client and it is a relationship, it's not a transaction.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: They're not paying me.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I'm doing it because it's my job and I need to know that the person that I'm working with sees me as a human and not as an object for their fulfillment of getting the client happy.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, the ones that have figured out the relationship part and the humanity of of media, the human behind the, the byline, is Critical for me at this juncture of my career.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: It sounds like like a bit of an art form, because if somebody's just personalizing with some generic level of like oh it's, you know, sunny and San Francisco or something, versus what I'm hearing from you is a lot of, I Notice you write about these topics and and maybe there's like some new story along those lines that maybe you might be interested, is that the sort of right, I saw you published an article about jungle eco lodges.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I have a client who's one.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Would you like to come visit them?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Here's an interesting angle about them.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Whatever it is, I just want to know that they that I'm not getting a bulk email, essentially because all travel journalists we share in our private communities.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Those emails that we get that say hi, writer, or hi insert name here, and when that happens, obviously they have a job to do as well, but it's hard to want to read the rest of that email when it's so depersonalized.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: So you touched on this a little bit, but I wonder if we just speak for a few more moments around.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: You know anything else you would like to see from Hospitality providers and how they could be more helpful In their work?
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I think depending on the organization, there may be a separate PR firm involved.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Sometimes that's in-house, but there's you mentioned kind of the pitch process.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: There's the piece of ran being timely and responsive you mentioned.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Some are inviting you to their properties there.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Any part of that process, I guess, when you're actually interacting with the Hospitality brand that you find to be useful?
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I think it's helpful when they understand what a journalist job is like we were talking about how it's distinct from advertorial or influencing and understanding that we're not controlling the editorial process necessarily, so just knowing what the job entails, that, first and foremost, were there to build a relationship and explore a story.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: We're not there to Transcribe their story, we're there to explore what it is and determine if it's worthwhile of a media placement.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: And Because there's a lot in the travel industry where they will travel media industry, well, they will invite us out.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But you can't come unless you've confirmed a story in advance, which is actually that the only way that they do it in the UK but in the US I think it's a little misleading for readers because you wouldn't ask me to write about the new Apple iPhone until I've held it in my hands.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that it makes sense to Guarantee a story about a hotel unless you've been there, unless it's some kind of list of these are the places that exist.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: It's it's Important to understand that the value of travel journalism and that there's more value that comes from actually having interacted with the product.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: So if that works, if that aligns, if there's a way to make that happen, then the story is just going to be richer.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And I understand the need to have as many media placements as possible, as often as possible, as many as possible, but you're going to get a richer story if you can have a journalist come out and actually experience your product.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So when we're there, if they can bring us out there, ensuring that we have a realistic experience of Of what a guest might experience if they, if we were they, is really helpful and just understanding that there's not a transaction happening, it's a relationship that's being built Right.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And I mean to that point of realistic experience.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: If you're kind of in this artificial bubble of, like the media experience, it's not really useful, honestly, for anybody, because I think what's important not to miss is a big piece of satisfaction is that you know kind of gap between your expectation or the reality of being a guest and so if you're painting this artificial picture, it's not going to, it's going to put you back to bite you right in a way.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: I stayed at a hotel recently, a lovely hotel where upon arrival they had an illustration of my face in the room and I had to ask is this something every guest gets?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: So while I appreciated the gesture and definitely took a little photo of the drawing, I would never.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: It was sort of a misgiving that I appreciated the hospitality that was curated from me, the travel writer, but that's not something I can translate into a story and they hopefully they understand that, while it's appreciated, I'm not taking that to consideration when it comes to crafting a story about their property, because it's irrelevant, it's not part of the experience.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: It's part of my experience.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: So what it sometimes is really nice to go to a hotel unannounced and get the typical experience and then compare it to the hosted experience, because they're not the same all the time and sometimes they are.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: It depends, but it's.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: It's definitely an interesting line to balance.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think it goes back to what we're talking about, of creating a truly remarkable experience, right, something that is the product, the service experiences as extraordinary, because I think you know something else that you're referencing is the sense of you know kind of like access and being timely and responsive, and I think there's there's a case to be made for if you're a self interested hospitality provider by giving someone like yourself access, I think the range of stories that can come out of you know you experiencing their property or interacting with their staff, is actually much broader and they can be best served actually by you know, this sort of high trust relationship where they know the quality of your work, and it's more about you know giving you access to whomever you want to speak with on their staff and I guess, like experiencing the hospitality offering on your terms, right, not theirs.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it makes sense to do that Because, like I said with the butterflies, they weren't expecting me to write about that.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: That was just something they do for all their guests and I have enough experience to know that I've never seen that anywhere else before.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: That was a cool thing to be able to highlight and I it's not going to be that hotels not like any other hotel and I it's great to learn what makes that hotel unique.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: And if they try to hide aspects of the hotel, it does feedback to the guests where they're not getting a realistic expectation of what it's going to be like to select that property.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: So I do think there should be a little more trust in you can see my portfolio, you can see who I've written for, you can see what I write, what I focus on, and trust that I can do my job when the time comes to it and that if they have something egregious that is worthy of reporting on from an investigative standpoint, that's on them Then they need to fix the things that make them egregious, because that's, again, that's what journalism is, and if that's the truth, then that's the truth.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah well, in the best hospital hospitality providers that I've seen really look at investing in the quality of what they do, the quality of their people.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: And it's not the marketing, isn't a veneer, marketing is the operation, it is the people they hire, it's the way they take care of their people, because they'll find out one way or another.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: There are reviews online, and I know that that's a tricky minefield, but stuff gets out, and it's not just journalists who do it.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So it behooves them to put their best foot forward for everyone, because that will become the experience that guests share.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: But I appreciate you breaking this down because it is an important part of providing hospitality is communicating what you do, and it's such a big piece If you could have the best thing in the world and if nobody knows about it, you're not going to help a lot of people.