Latest / Inside The Consulting Room - Understanding the Child Behind the Behaviour / How Curiosity Shuts Down

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How Curiosity Shuts Down · Inside The Consulting Room - Understanding the Child Behind the Behaviour

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome back.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is Kim Lee from the Children's Consultancy.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Today I want to talk about the counterpart to last episode, which was concerned with how families nurture mentalizing in children and the kinds of things which facilitate that growth.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, I want to talk about how families shut minds down.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is a reference to the ways in which parents in their relationships miss the opportunities that can help minds grow and also how they can cause them to retreat.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this isn't because parents are bad or because children are bad, but because fear, stress, shame, and pain have a way of closing curiosity.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when curiosity disappears, mentalization begins to disappear too.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: The families often shut down minds unintentionally, not through cruelty, but through certainty, through stress, through unresolved wounds, through generations of people trying their best with minds that were never fully understood themselves.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So in some families, emotions are dismissed.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Stop crying, don't be silly, there's nothing wrong with you, get over it.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: The message may not be intentional and it may not always be verbal.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the child learns something, and what they learn is that my feelings are inconvenient, my mind doesn't matter.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: In some families, criticism becomes the dominant language.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing's good enough.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Mistakes are met with shame.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Achievement becomes confused with worth.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And over time, children stop asking, What am I feeling?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: and begin asking what's wrong with me.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I see this quite a lot with children who, for whatever reasons, continually repeating loops of behavior that just don't work.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they start to ask, what's wrong with me?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually they conclude that there is something wrong with them.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: When in fact, it isn't that there is something wrong with them, it is that somewhere inside them they are stuck, and the grown-ups haven't noted.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: They've noticed the behavior.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: But then, as I continually say, the behavior is a communication, it's not the problem.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Some children grow up looking on eggshells.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know whether affection or anger is coming next.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that living with unpredictability and conflict creates fear.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes children grow up in families where there are serious problems, alcohol, drug misuse, and emotional neglect.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or parents whose own pain has left little room to think about the minds of others.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So in these environments, survival takes precedence over understanding.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So hypervigilance replaces curiosity.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And self-protection replaces trust.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And children become experts very quickly at reading moods, but not necessarily at understanding feelings.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Some people become people pleasers, some become angry, some withdraw, some just disappear into themselves.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Others become the emotional carer for their parents, learning very early that their job is to manage everybody else's feelings while nobody manages theirs.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I should stress this is not what children think, this is what children become.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this latter phenomenon is known as parentification.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it becomes at a cost because children cannot simultaneously carry everyone else's emotional world and develop their own.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Certainty is another enemy of mentalization.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this is this is interesting because families sometimes become trapped in fixed roles.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's the difficult one, she's the oversensitive one, he's lazy, she's manipulative, he's selfish.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now these labels are very narrow and based upon assumption and misinterpretation, and they become like prisons for the child.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And once that kind of self entity takes hold, curiosity dies, because nobody wonders anymore.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Behavior becomes identity and minds disappear.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: So many times I see children and young people who have a fixed view of themselves, which is locked into, I'm wrong.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the one that creates problems for others.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I never get it right.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that part of themselves becomes entrenched.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Part of my job is actually introducing them to the other parts of themselves, the bits that do work, so that we can look sensitively and thoughtfully at the bit that's struggling.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because for such children, assumptions replace understanding, intentions become distorted, and everybody becomes certain that they know what the other person thinks.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a and it's something I find personally very difficult.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: When people make assumptions with certainty about what I think, about what my motivations are, it tells me everything I need to know about them.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because it says something about their fixed view.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: That I'm an adult, you know, and I can deal with that kind of behavior very easily.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: But for children who are living within these systems, they often lose their own capacity to mentalize as well.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: They absorb the anxiety, they absorb the conflict, and eventually they stop wondering because wondering no longer feels safe.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the greatest enemy of mentalization is shame.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Shame says you are bad, you are too much, or you are not enough, and shame destroys curiosity.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Shaming children is an awful thing to do.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because when people are ashamed, they can't reflect, they defend, or they attack, or they withdraw, they hide.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this is true for adults and children alike.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the most important questions any family can ask is not who's to blame, but what happened to us.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: What hurts are we carrying?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: What fears are we protecting ourselves from?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: What might we be missing?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because minds can't flourish in this kind of ent-trapping certainty.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: They flourish in curiosity.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the wonderful thing about mentalization is this it can always be rebuilt.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: No family is beyond repair.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: No parent is disqualified, no child has to be permanently damaged.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the change in the healing begins the moment somebody becomes curious again, the moment somebody says, help me understand.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: The moment somebody wonders, the moment somebody chooses connection over certainty, because mentalization, it is not perfection, it is relationship.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And relationship always offers the possibility of a new beginning.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as a therapist, I am so frequently in a position where I can begin a very different kind of relationship with a child and young person, one in which I reflect to the child, the parts that they can't access.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I endeavor to help children to understand what's happening inside them, and that what they're experiencing is not a fault, it's a conclusion.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think in the next episode, the final episode of this series, I'm going to talk about raising children who understand minds.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this brings together the work of Phonegy, Siegel, Bobby Shaw, and a variety of other other people into practical principles for everyday parenting.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this will then end with a central idea that children become who they have repeatedly been held in mind to be.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.