Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / Smart Budgeting: Why You Make Money but Still Feel Financially Stuck | Veronica Deraleau

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Smart Budgeting: Why You Make Money but Still Feel Financially Stuck | Veronica Deraleau · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

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They're able to essentially make financial outcomes happen from
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the beginning because they pick one goal,
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pick a date, and reverse engineer these financial outcomes and they figure
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out what are the levers that I have to pull.
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A lot
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Yeah.
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of the financial anxiety comes from the unknown.
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Sometimes because they know they have to make a change and maybe there's still
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resistance in their
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Mm.
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mind that they haven't accepted fully.
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If you tend to overspend because you're like,
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I deserve this, but at the expense of my actual numbers,
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it's like, yeah, you can continue holding on to those beliefs,
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but are you getting the outcome that you want?
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Hey, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
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My name is Rick Meekins. I am your host today.
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And in our studio, we have Veronica Deraleau.
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How are you today, ma'am?
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I'm well, Rick. Thank you for having me.
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I'm glad you are here. And folks,
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that nod that you saw, it was like,
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he got my last name right. It's
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Good job, good job.
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sometimes a little hard. Sometimes a little hard.
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Cool,
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folks. Before we get started, if you haven't done it,
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we would be honored if you'd like,
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subscribe, and hit the bell so you can get updates every time we drop a new episode.
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And without further ado, let's get to it.
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So Veronica, we would love to know a little bit about who you are.
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So who are you? What do you do,
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and why do you do what you do?
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Yes, I am a financial coach and an author of Making Money is Simple.
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And I'm also a former asset manager in the commercial real estate space.
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And I started my financial coaching business a couple of years
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ago because I realized that there was a gap in the consumer space for
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the type of budgeting, strategic budgeting that institutional.
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investors and financial institutions do.
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It is ~ materially different than what I see in the personal finance space.
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So I thought there was a gap there.
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Mm, mm, mm, mm. So you'll you'll have to dig into that a little bit more.
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Help us help us understand what that means.
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Yeah, so in personal finance, in yeah,
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in personal finance in the consumer space,
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what I've seen. And also this is like there's like a personal tie here too.
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So in 2017, I graduated with my MBA and I had six figures of debt.
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And then you know, I always wanted I was always a a creative on
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the side and have a have had a
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professional ~ opera singing career.
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And in the arts, they always say that debt is the abattoir of dreams.
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Like it just like don't have debt.
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So I was very motivated to get out of debt and I wanted to move on,
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move on with my life and like be able to have all of the milestones,
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be able to buy a house and get married with my husband and all this stuff.
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And I didn't want this stuff holding me back.
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so when I graduated with the six figures of debt,
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I was very motivated to get out of debt.
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And then I started working
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in the commercial real estate space,
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and I was working with these high net worth individuals.
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And I saw how they budgeted. So in personal finance,
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what I see is you know, you have your Excel sheet and you have your income minus
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your expenses, minus your savings,
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minus your investments, and they have like zero-based budgeting.
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So, you know, hopefully it ties to zero or doesn't go below zero.
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You know, hopefully there's there's cash left over.
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Mm-hmm.
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So
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That is what I call now cash flow management.
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There's no plan in there for how you can get out of debt.
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~ to me, that's just money in and money out.
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And it's just like you're budgeting for per period.
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You're just budgeting one period at a time.
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In the yeah,
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Period, you mean ~ a month at a time?
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it could be a month, it could be two weeks,
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it could be a week, like however however your paycheck stretches.
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Okay.
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So when I
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Started working with these high net worth guys,
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I was like, my gosh, this is so different from what I thought budgeting was.
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And I had at that point an economics degree,
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an MBA. and what they do is they start with the end date in mind of
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and of what they're trying to accomplish,
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and they have one financial goal.
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So let's call it, hey, we want to make a 22% IRR.
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in a seven year period, whatever it is.
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So They're able to essentially make financial outcomes happen from
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the beginning because they pick one goal,
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they pick a date, and they reverse engineer these financial outcomes
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and they figure out what are the levers that I have to pull.
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how can I increase the income?
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How can I decrease the expenses?
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And then you're just managing along the way ~
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Mm-hmm.
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this outcome to happen. So I was just like
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Mind blown, you can make
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Mm-hmm.
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financial outcomes happen from the beginning by just having a specific goal
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and having an end date in mind,
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and then set the strategy that will take you there.
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So that is so different than just you know,
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money in, money out, hope, hope it doesn't go below zero,
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you know, that
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Yeah.
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kind of thing. so that kind of
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I can make these financial outcomes happen.
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And then, ~ ~ in the asset management,
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when I was working in asset management,
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I saw ~ the rigor of managing these outcomes and and so got really good
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at figuring out how to pull these levers.
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Mm. Mm. Mm. So you're saying like if if I had a hundred fifty thousand dollars
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in debt, I would look at a date,
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for example, that I want to have that paid off.
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And
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Mm-hmm.
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I would work backwards and figure out how much I had to pay on the debt every,
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you know, every whatever period.
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And then of course
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That's correct, and that is
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I've got my other expenses in there as well.
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That's correct. So that is essentially what I did.
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When I was very motivated to get out of debt,
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I was like, there's no way I'm doing this 10 year,
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20 year, ~ ~ student loan thing.
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Forget that.
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Yeah.
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~ I I was very motivated. I graduated from MBA at 30 and I was like,
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by 35, this is done. Like I'm this is gone.
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And I actually managed to do it faster.
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I did it in three years because I
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Nice.
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saw firsthand this type of strategic budgeting.
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this outcome-based budgeting and then
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Mm-hmm.
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and then also how to tactically manage to those goals.
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Mm.
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~ and was able to take that down to my personal finances and apply those same
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lessons. And now
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Mm.
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that's that's what I do in my financial coaching practice,
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including, you know, we set the strategy,
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I give them my clients the highest to lowest lever tools,
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like, hey, here's the biggest,
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highest, most leverage quick wins that you can do.
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And then, ~ ~ the accountability piece,
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~ if it's getting to multiple quotes,
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if it's like renegotiating some interest rates or whatever the case may be,
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~ what are those highest leverage activities that will actually move you forward?
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~ ~ you're you're using a lot of finance related terms,
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~ ~ IRR, leverage. you you gotta you have to r help help us lay people,
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you know, that manage by the week or by the day understand what the what these what
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these what these are referring to.
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Yeah, we we can take all of the complexity out of it really.
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if you like you mentioned in the in the beginning,
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it's essentially what do you want your money to do for you?
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So pick one goal,
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Mm-hmm.
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then pick the date,
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Mm-hmm.
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and then budget backwards. So
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Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
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once you have everything laid out,
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your income, your expenses, that
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in and of itself can be very complex because people have credit cards
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and they have debit cards and they have their savings accounts
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and their investment accounts,
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~ all these logins that are ~ disparate.
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that taking taking that first step and and making the invisible visible.
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That's like a huge thing. So
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Mm-hmm.
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once you have the specific goal and the date in mind and then you make
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the invisible visible, then you can lay it all out.
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and see what is the goal, what if I do the division,
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~ ~ that okay, if I'm gonna do pay off 100K in three years and so,
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you know, 30 odd something thousand dollars a year,
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break that
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Mm-hmm.
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into 12 months, what is that? And then okay,
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if I'm way off, do I what needs to what needs to be adjusted?
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Do I need to increase my income substantially?
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Is this a matter of actually if I just cut out luxuries for a short period of time,
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like how would that move the needle?
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Or you know, a combination of both?
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Or do I need to adjust my timeline?
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Mm, mm. How how does that work for ~ ~ a business owner?
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Because ~ ~ if you think about a business owner,
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~ ~ ~ yourself, obviously, there are,
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~ ~ you may have debts, but ~ ~ that you have to create,
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you know, pay certain expenses in order to continue to grow the business
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in order to increase your income.
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Mm-hmm. Yeah.
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And so how
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does how does one work in that scenario?
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Yeah, so it really depends what the goal is,
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right? Because if you are in growth mode,
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then having cash flow, like you may be reinvesting back in the business.
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You may not have money that you're setting aside.
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You want to make sure that the cash flow is,
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you know, gonna be consistent.
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~
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Yeah.
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or you may choose, hey, at this point in time,
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we're going to invest more in the business than we're making because we want
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to gain market share. So it
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Yeah.
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really is about like,
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What is the one goal you're trying to achieve?
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Because then you can work backwards from there.
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If if you are too confused about actually what the goal is,
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then you can have ~ tactics that ~ ~ cancel each other out.
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So you have to be very specific.
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Mm. I see. I see. So you wouldn't try to pay down debt and be in growth mode
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Yes.
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at the same time?
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Yeah, that is one thing that I teach as well.
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I think that, ~ ~ there's the behavioral piece.
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And I think that people, if they can't see what it is they're sacrificing for,
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they can't stay motivated, right?
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So if you are you have ~ too many goals going,
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if you have too many goals going on at once and you don't just
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Mm-hmm.
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pick one goal and one date, then these things get diffused and you
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see very little progress, and that's super frustrating.
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So
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Yeah.
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I know I like to go faster.
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Mm-hmm.
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I like to go faster. I'm ~ ~ impatient.
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So, so for me, it's like the that those behaviors,
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like being able to see that the end goal and and do those things in order and have,
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you know, what's the highest return to lowest return.
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So, you know, if you have debt and you have credit cards of north of 20%,
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that's gonna be your highest leverage activity,
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right? So just focus on that one,
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that one
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Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
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goal and
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And then you can s clearly see what where the finish line is and it's so motivating.
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~
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Mm.
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whereas if you have ~ five, ten goals,
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then you're just like making these incremental moves and it's like to
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me it's very frustrating.
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Yeah, I I think I think that's frustrating as well.
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~ ~ you progress is is certainly gonna be hampered.
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you know, trying to trying to accomplish multiple goals.
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I mean, you know, no matter what you're doing,
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you know, if you're trying to do fifteen things at once,
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it's just not as as as effective,
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if you will. so how do how do you help people to actually define what those goals
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are gonna be or what that one goal what's the most important goal to be?
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You talked about, you know, what was the the highest leveraged
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Mm. Mm-hmm.
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Right. Or the highest
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r the highest rate of return, I think you said.
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Yeah. I I don't I don't get so mechanical when we're when we're deciding on goals.
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Usually they're coming to me because they have a pain point.
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And so I'm
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Yeah.
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just listening to them and like what is their biggest frustration right now?
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Yeah.
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And where is their source of pain coming from?
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And usually it's like debt or maybe they're in a transition period
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in their life where maybe they have young children and
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and their expenses have increased substantially and
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Yeah.
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they don't know where the cash is going.
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And so so it's really about just listening to them and hearing their pain points
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and figuring out what where I can get the quick win.
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So you go for the quick win and then what what happens after that?
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So there are some ~ order of operations things with finance.
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~ if you're trying to get out of debt,
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for example,
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Mm-hmm.
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you can't get off the credit cards.
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Like it doesn't feel comfortable to stop using the credit cards unless
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you have some cash. So, you know,
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having some small set-aside cash in a savings account is often
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Mm-hmm.
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a precursor to paying off the debt because you can't get off the
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using the credit cards, if every time you get sidelined,
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there's nothing to pull from. So
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Right.
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sometimes there's like things like that.
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if it is just a matter of saving money,
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then it's like, you know, it's always that making the invisible visible.
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Like, let me do an analysis of where are we today?
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Where is the cash flow going today?
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And then, you know, then I can go through and do the
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what's the goal, what's the end date,
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start working backwards and start making recommendations for them to get there.
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So
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Right.
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at a high level, it's about making the invisible visible.
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The inv the invisible, visible.
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So things you're not tracking we're we're suddenly tracking.
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We're looking at it on a weekly,
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monthly basis. Is that is that what you're saying?
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~ ~ that whole picture from the commercial underwriting type style of investing,
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Yeah.
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to me, it's about what when can I achieve this goal?
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And showing them that on paper.
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So that's like
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Right.
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one of the first things I do is like how your money is being managed today,
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you are never gonna get there,
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or you're gonna get there 10 years from now.
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And it's because you're making certain trade-offs.
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And do you want to be making these trade-offs?
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~ can I show you another way that maybe can reduce the amount of time to get there?
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so yeah, it's about taking that inventory and and then showing them the roadmap.
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Like, here's the roadmap as it's today.
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If we do it another way, I can get you there in a third of the time.
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Like, are you with
14:22
Yeah, yeah.
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me? You wanna and then you know,
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you listen to you listen to their pushback,
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like their fears and
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I actually don't want to give this up.
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Or ~ how are we gonna do that?
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or actually, with this happens with business owners a lot,
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like, can I just make more money?
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And I'm
14:39
Yeah.
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like, Yeah, start the start start brainstorming.
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Like, if you can do that, then fantastic,
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do that. so so yeah, it's about listening to them and starting with their goals.
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And you know, since I have
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I have finance people in my life and I have artists in my life and they like
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to live very different lives. And so I I I don't come in with any,
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~ ~ judgment or anything. ~ I just
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Yeah.
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want to listen to what the person is trying to do and start with that goal in mind.
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Hmm. What what I what I'm hearing is is people are reacting or responding based
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on fears that they have. Is is that what you say?
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Absolutely. Yeah. I think sometimes it's a it's a lack of the literacy sometimes.
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Sometimes it really is about I think,
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you know, I think that fear comes from the unknown.
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A lot
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Yeah.
15:31
of the financial anxiety comes from the unknown.
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Uh-huh.
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~ Sometimes the financial anxiety is because they know they have to make
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a change and maybe there's still resistance in their
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Mm.
15:44
mind or their heart that they haven't accepted fully.
15:48
Mm.
15:48
so sometimes it's more emotional,
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~ shoot, I know I have to make a change,
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but I know what she's gonna say and I'm kinda not willing to make that change.
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But I need someone neutral to kind of mirror my fears to me.
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Mm, mm, mm. How how do you coach people through,
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you know, that that the challenges of changing their lifestyle?
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Sometimes it's about that unbundling.
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and what I mean by that is we have a lot of scripts in our minds that
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we tell ourselves about money.
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And there's often like shame attached to it,
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or there's dissonance because hey,
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I thought I was successful and I present as successful on the outside,
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but actually I've I've like when you take a look under the hood,
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it's
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it's not successful and and therefore there's a mismatch there.
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So I feel imposter syndrome or something like that.
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And ~
16:41
Yeah.
16:42
it's about unbundling. So one example would be they spent too much on a car.
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Let's let's pick like a random example.
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why did they s why did they spend so much on this car?
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And can we look at alternatives?
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Sometimes they're saying things like,
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well, I want my family to be safe.
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And
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Mm-hmm.
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it's like, well, now you're mixing two concepts.
17:05
You're mixing the price of something with security.
17:09
So what I'm hearing from you is you want security for your family.
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Is that true? Like, you know, yes,
17:16
actually, yes. So that's often one of the hardest ones is like if it's tied to
17:22
service of others and they're overspending due to that,
17:26
Mm-hmm.
17:26
then it's like, actually, this is your money trigger.
17:30
And
17:30
Yeah.
17:31
so now that you're aware of it,
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let me find you some creative options for how you can still give security
17:37
to your family, but at a price point that actually is sustainable.
17:42
Mm. Mm. That makes sense. I mean that that that almost seems easy.
17:45
Almost seems easy. What what are some kinds of of beliefs that people have about
17:51
money that you know you have to you have to kind of guide them away from?
17:54
Hmm. gosh. so always fear, like ~ it could be fear a story.
17:58
You give us a story? You
18:01
Yeah, give us a story.
18:04
Yeah, I'll give you a personal story.
18:06
So ~ it's not always it's not always on the spending less.
18:11
Sometimes it's about spending more.
18:12
And that can be a difficult one.
18:13
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
18:14
~
18:15
and and you know, when you finally get to a point where you are stable,
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it's hard to just like flip a lever and think differently.
18:24
So in in my family, we for
18:28
A decade went very disciplined and got to the point where you know we
18:34
did we hit Coast FI. And so we're like in a good position.
18:38
But that doesn't mean that all of a sudden my husband is gonna like flip
18:43
his switch and stop being the frugal person that he is.
18:47
Mm-hmm.
18:47
So I've had to very much encourage him:
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hey, like we have more means now,
18:52
we worked really hard.
18:54
What are some things that you want money to do for you?
18:57
~ let's set different goals. And it can
18:59
Yeah.
19:00
be it can be very painful because you start to associate yourself,
19:05
your identity with someone that behaves a certain way.
19:09
And
19:09
Yeah.
19:10
and then you start thinking to yourself,
19:12
am I like leaving this behind?
19:14
What does that mean about me? Am I now someone who just spends?
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~ ~ ~ you you start making up these stories,
19:22
but
19:23
Yeah.
19:23
If you think of money just as a tool,
19:25
then it's like, ~ ~ I don't want to die with a bunch of money.
19:29
~ what do you want money to do for you?
19:32
So I've
19:32
Mm.
19:33
been encouraging him to pick out some bucket list items that he wants to do.
19:37
And then as long as we bake it into our plans,
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then why not?
19:41
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, some you you mentioned or you alluded to
19:45
the idea that some people identify themselves,
19:48
you know, by money or how much money they have.
19:50
I think that's ~
19:52
So
19:53
that's that's an interesting concept in your in your in
19:57
in your field because you're trying to get people to get the most really you're
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coming to people treating money like a tool,
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they're treating money like
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This is how much I'm worth or this is me,
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this is who I am.
20:10
Hmm.
20:11
How do you how do you work with people like that?
20:15
Yeah, okay. So I think that it's about the outcomes,
20:18
right? So
20:20
Yeah.
20:20
it's like If you tend to overspend because you're like,
20:24
I deserve this, or I, you know,
20:26
am the one who in my family has to provide for everybody else,
20:31
but at the expense of my actual numbers,
20:35
it's like, yeah, you can continue holding on to those beliefs,
20:38
but are you getting the outcome that you want?
20:41
Yeah.
20:41
So
20:41
sometimes these beliefs that we have in our head,
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they're just like thoughts that you don't need to listen to because they're
20:48
not actually serving you anymore.
20:50
Yeah, yeah. I've seen people on the on the other side of that,
20:53
~ ~ and they just say, ~ ~ I can't do,
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~ ~ X, Y, Z because I'm broke.
20:57
And that tends to
20:58
Mm-hmm.
20:59
drive a lot of their decisions.
21:02
And, ~ ~ I I don't know how happy they are or how how much joy they experience,
21:06
you know, with with life, but it seems it seems very limiting to me,
21:11
to have that mentality. Is is that something you're seeing as well?
21:15
Yes. And ~ ~ especially when we do that exercise of making the invisible visible
21:19
and then I start brainstorming.
21:21
Like I had one of my clients who was very successful in our four month period
21:25
working together and really had a huge turnaround.
21:28
And I asked her, hey, like, I'm so curious,
21:31
like, how what do you attribute to your success with our coaching?
21:35
And she was like, honestly, I was so frustrated coming in that I was just like,
21:40
whatever Veronica says, I'm gonna do it.
21:43
She just had no, there was ~ nothing was off the table.
21:47
And that's something that I observed with high net worth with those high
21:50
net worth guys was like the way that they think about money,
21:53
they were just like, if I don't have the information,
21:55
I'm gonna get the information from someone who has done it and knows it.
21:59
There was no like limiting belief with the with that.
22:02
Yeah.
22:02
And I was like, my gosh, like that is so different,
22:06
like so different. And so so
22:10
Often when I'm brainstorming with people,
22:12
you know, there can be like a wall with money,
22:14
like if you don't have and then you you're just seeing everything through that lens.
22:19
And then when I'm like, how about we try this?
22:20
How about we try that? How about they're like,
22:22
What? Like I didn't even know that these were options or like they're very obvious,
22:28
but now you know, it's like this veil has been lifted and I can't unsee it.
22:31
But I totally just didn't see that before.
22:34
So
22:35
What what
22:36
what kinds of things are you are you saying?
22:37
~ ~ in your brainstorm sessions,
22:39
things that are maybe unclear or people miss?
22:42
Yeah, so I have a ~ ~ in with my asset management technique,
22:46
I really go through every line item.
22:48
And
22:49
Mm-hmm.
22:50
I have like certain tactics, like one is delete or delay.
22:54
So when I'm kind of ruthless,
22:57
like when I go through the line items,
22:59
to me, if it this is this is in my book too.
23:03
So my mom was an immigrant from the Philippines.
23:05
And so my bar for like what is a need versus a want,
23:10
like if it is not a third world need,
23:12
it's not really need. It's a very
23:13
Yeah.
23:14
it may be a very important want,
23:17
but like
23:18
Mm-hmm.
23:18
let's call it that and let's rank these wants.
23:22
And you're gonna have to make some trade-offs,
23:23
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
23:24
right? So
23:26
so I start going through and you can
23:29
delete things, you can delay things so you can decrease the frequency that
23:33
you use items, you can find cheaper alternative options.
23:37
you know you can renegotiate contracts,
23:40
you can look for different vendors,
23:43
you can sell things, you can pick up extra work.
23:47
We can be creative with the person's talents.
23:50
They can
23:51
If they're working in a certain industry,
23:53
are there different employers that you can switch and make a big jump
23:57
in your income? ~ we just go through and everything's on the table.
24:01
And that's that's really the best way to do it,
24:03
is just like everything has to be on the table.
24:06
Mm-hmm.
24:06
And if we employ all of these different options and they they compound
24:11
and they add up, like how quickly can we get there?
24:13
Because my theory is that a lot of people get stuck because they ruminate in their
24:20
brains and I I see this all the time where they're like,
24:22
but I don't want to give this thing up.
24:24
And I'm like, I'm not asking you to give it up for all eternity.
24:27
By
24:27
Mm-hmm.
24:28
the math here, I'm asking you to give it up for less than a year.
24:30
And they're like, ~ okay, that's a good trade,
24:31
Mm, mm.
24:32
you know?
24:33
So so I think it's just because the trades aren't very obvious because
24:37
no one ever does the math.
24:39
Hmm. I I think there's I think there's something to be said though about
24:44
~ ~ you being there coaching them,
24:45
~ ~ with them and and holding them accountable.
24:47
~ ~ it's it's like ~ ~ you sit there and you create a budget for yourself,
24:50
~ ~ Excel spreadsheet or whatever,
24:52
but it's doesn't necessarily mean that you're gonna follow that.
24:56
But, ~ ~ when you're
24:57
That's true too.
24:58
there and then you've got, ~ ~ not only the spreadsheet,
25:00
but you have the logic and you have the coaching and the you can do
25:04
it and what happened here, ~ ~ I I think
25:06
Mm.
25:06
that's a I think it's
25:08
increases the likelihood of success exponentially.
25:12
Absolutely. I a hundred percent agree with you.
25:14
I think that, ~ ~ the all the information is useless without the execution,
25:19
right? And
25:19
Yeah.
25:20
so if I'm saying, hey, I need you to call two vendors this week,
25:24
~ that's nice, I can say that all I want,
25:27
but
25:27
Yeah.
25:28
the next week they have to be accountable to me.
25:30
So they're gonna feel bad if they don't do it.
25:32
One, they
25:32
Yeah.
25:32
told me sometimes sometimes clients are like,
25:34
actually, the only reason I did this was I didn't want to have to report
25:37
to you that I didn't do it, which is so true,
25:39
right?
25:40
Absolutely.
25:40
And then
25:41
the other thing is like sometimes you're helping people with their time management
25:45
too. Like they have a lot of things going on.
25:48
sometimes they're busy business owners,
25:50
sometimes they have young children,
25:52
they just have a lot of stuff going on.
25:53
And so sometimes it really it's also about like how can we structure your week?
25:58
Like, can I do a a check-in midweek?
26:00
Like, let's pick a time right now.
26:03
When are you gonna make this call?
26:04
When are you seeing a block that's free?
26:06
And then they're like, okay, I'll be tired this evening,
26:09
but I have maybe this block during my lunchtime.
26:11
So so it's like, okay, let's actually pick out the block on your calendar when
26:16
you're going to do that activity.
26:18
And then I'll
26:18
Mm-hmm.
26:19
check in with you right after that.
26:21
And if you
26:21
Mm.
26:21
haven't done it, then you'll have a little extra push there.
26:24
You know?
26:25
Okay. I d I d
26:26
I didn't know what the I didn't know what the end of that was gonna be.
26:28
If you haven't done it, you know,
26:29
I'm like, huh. I wonder what we're gonna do
26:30
No, no, no, no. You'll have extra motivation.
26:35
sorry
26:36
the extra motivation. The w one of the so,
26:40
~ ~ as you as ~ ~ ~ ~ the the unemployment,
26:44
~ ~ in our country is is is is pretty high.
26:46
You know, I've I've heard figures as high as like forty percent.
26:49
~ I look at that and I also look
26:50
Mm-hmm.
26:51
at the idea that there are lots and lots of business owners that,
26:54
you know, aren't making the money that they would like to be making or,
26:58
you know, feel like they have the potential to make it.
27:00
So how do you how what do you advise folks that are
27:03
just not making the money. ~ ~ they're out there,
27:06
~ ~ trying
27:06
Mm.
27:07
to find the work. They're trying to,
27:09
~ ~ do whatever they can to make ends meet.
27:11
You know, and you have that and there's there's a real trade off.
27:13
You know, it's just like, okay,
27:14
I can get a client and make, you know,
27:17
$250 an hour, or I can go work at McDonald's for sixteen dollars an hour.
27:21
I mean, what what do what what do you what do you recommend to folks?
27:25
Yeah. Gosh, Rick. Okay, so you're a military guy and I I have this story from that
27:31
I always remember from ~ my basic training where okay,
27:35
~ ~ when you're you're doing your run and
27:38
Okay.
27:39
the drill sergeants will yell at you if you fall out and they'll make
27:45
you do extra work.
27:46
That's it.
27:47
Sometimes
27:48
You're not the one that falls out.
27:50
Sometimes people ahead of you fall out and now you're way behind the pack.
27:54
Right.
27:54
Mm-hmm.
27:55
there was one time that I that happened to me.
27:58
Like a bunch of people in front of me fell out of the run.
28:01
And then it looked like I was way behind.
28:03
And I was like, what the hell?
28:05
You know, now I'm the one that looks bad.
28:07
But I wasn't running any faster.
28:09
I my legs weren't moving any faster and I didn't catch up.
28:12
And so I ended up having to do extra work after.
28:16
And so I was so pissed about that.
28:18
And it didn't matter. Like I was still behind.
28:21
So the point of that story is sometimes there's a gap that just needs to be made.
28:27
Like you have to live with those two levers,
28:30
let's say the income and the expenses,
28:32
like sometimes you have to make drastic moves,
28:34
you know,
28:34
Yeah.
28:35
to keep up. And it's hopefully you can get that velocity that is needed,
28:40
but
28:41
If it's like what's sustainable,
28:43
do I need to pick up a night you know,
28:45
a night shift and move in with some family so that I can increase
28:49
my income and decrease my expenses at the same time for the short period of time.
28:53
But
28:53
Yeah.
28:54
you know, when you don't have employment,
28:56
you have to go to what is my survival budget and and figure out
29:00
how you're gonna stay above water.
29:01
~ because
29:02
Yeah.
29:02
it becomes so it becomes so difficult the longer it goes on.
29:06
And so, you know,
29:08
I would encourage people to take advantage of ~ we pay into the these systems.
29:13
So if you if you are in that period of time where you need to take unemployment,
29:19
you have paid into the system.
29:20
Like don't be ashamed about that.
29:21
Go ahead and take advantage of that during your time of need.
29:25
And yeah, so I do the same thing,
29:28
but like when if I'm advising people in that position,
29:31
but then we really everything has to be on the table.
29:34
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Do you ever advise people,
29:37
~ ~ they might want to talk to a bankruptcy lawyer or they might want
29:40
to do some debt counseling or something like that?
29:43
Or or is your work to encompass
29:43
Yeah, it's
29:45
debt counseling or?
29:46
No, I have partners that would do that kind of thing.
29:49
Like so my my financial coaching practice is for the behavioral transformation.
29:54
It's about turning your income into financial progress.
29:57
But if you don't have the income,
29:59
you know, I can provide some guidance.
30:02
Sometimes if let's say, you know,
30:05
they have a medical something and they they it's just like they're
30:08
not going to catch up. And maybe bankruptcy is the right is the right way
30:13
to go in that scenario.
30:14
sometimes there are debt relief solutions if it is a huge amount of money.
30:19
and sometimes, like if they are military folks,
30:22
like sometimes there are other resources that can,
30:25
grants and whatnot, that can be point-in-time solutions.
30:28
So it's it's not my go-to. You know,
30:31
I would prefer if we can work through it with their income.
30:34
Like I'm gonna do everything I can to get them there.
30:38
But sometimes if it really is an extreme situation where something out
30:42
of left field happened, then maybe you can use those those items as well.
30:46
And then then I would point
30:46
Mm.
30:47
them to one of those partners.
30:48
Mm. Mm. That's wise. So you wrote a book.
30:51
Let's talk about your book.
30:52
Okay, sure.
30:53
All right, tell our audience what it's about,
30:55
who's it for?
30:56
Yeah. So it's the same, you know,
30:59
that same someone who has been able to increase their income,
31:03
but they're not seeing financial progress.
31:05
there's something stuck in there,
31:07
and I call it money stuck in the book.
31:09
So going from how do you go from money stuck to money free?
31:13
And in the book there's four chapters,
31:17
the my ARIA money model.
31:20
You know ties to singing, but ARIA is a framework,
31:23
my money mindset model. And there are four steps to it.
31:27
So A is for awaken, R is for reframe,
31:31
I is for setting intention, and then A is for taking action.
31:34
And it's the book is about the work,
31:38
the inner work that needs to be done to unbind yourself from those limiting beliefs,
31:43
because there is so much programming and socialization and
31:47
shame ~ from our childhoods that we don't even know are baked into us
31:53
and the way that we behave and the way that we spend and all of these things.
31:58
So it's about untangling all of these beliefs from your habits
32:04
and and then ~ rewiring your brain to create new habits and to be able to see
32:09
a in a different way.
32:11
Like it, I like it. What it reminds me,
32:13
what was the name of the book and where can people get it?
32:15
It's called Making Money is Simple and you can get it on Amazon.
32:19
Nice, nice. You have Kindle, hardback,
32:21
audio.
32:22
I have paperback and Kindle.
32:25
Nice, nice, very nice, very nice.
32:27
That's writing a book is always a journey.
32:30
What made you want to write it?
32:31
What made you put it together?
32:33
Yeah, so I I have all these ~ different parts of my life.
32:37
you know, I talk about my childhood,
32:38
my have my military service in there,
32:40
I s have a singing career, have my,
32:43
you know, B2B career, like in the commercial space.
32:46
And
32:46
Mm-hmm.
32:47
so how do you explain all that and and and tell people your personal story of like,
32:52
you know, I I had these degrees in business,
32:54
but I still had six figures of debt and I was carrying so much shame and like who
32:58
Mm.
32:59
was gonna
33:00
I think it was just a way to succinctly put my all these parts of
33:03
my life together and tell my personal story.
33:06
So if it resonates for anyone that they can reach out to me.
33:10
wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
33:11
Speaking of which, what's the best way to reach out to you?
33:14
Yeah, you can find me at all things making money is simple.
33:17
So my my website's making money is simple and then all of my social handles
33:20
are also at making money is simple.
33:22
Cool. And where did you get the title from?
33:26
it was workshopping with my editor.
33:27
I I think it came out of a conversation where we were we were I was like,
33:32
making money is is hard. And she was like,
33:35
let's double click on that. Like,
33:38
why do you think making money is hard?
33:40
Or why would someone think that making money is hard?
33:43
And then and then we found, you know,
33:45
came up with making money is simple and it it like kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
33:50
I was like, that's like kind of what a thing to say.
33:53
But then ~ ~ when it makes you emotional like that,
33:56
you're like, hmm, there's something in there.
33:57
Like actually it is very simple.
33:59
It's just that we freaking make it hard in our heads,
34:02
you know.
34:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:05
And it doesn't ~ ~ what would I'm I'm assuming that you intentionally didn't
34:09
say making money is easy.
34:11
Yes, although then Lewis Howes has that book that he wrote,
34:15
Does he?
34:15
Making
34:15
money easy. And I was like, okay,
34:17
well someone someone took it and ran with it.
34:19
But but yeah, to me it's it is simple.
34:22
And
34:22
Mm-hmm.
34:23
and that is my I know I started with all this like financial jargon
34:26
in the beginning, but I really do think at the heart of it that that stuff,
34:30
there's so many acronyms and and overcomplicated in the financial space.
34:34
And
34:35
Mm-hmm.
34:35
really it is
34:36
It is quite simple. It's just that you know,
34:40
I I go off sometimes on tangents about like predatory things.
34:44
Like I think that there is deliberate sometimes like overcomplication
34:49
to sell things and make them make these products,
34:52
like these debt products, look attractive.
34:54
But I'm like, hey,
34:54
Mm-hmm.
34:56
if they think why why do you think they would offer you that?
34:59
Like they want to make money.
35:01
So they're not doing it for from the good of their heart giving you this money.
35:04
Like it's because they think they can make money off of you,
35:07
you know? So so yeah, it really is simple.
35:10
It's just that we overcomplicate things.
35:14
Good deal, good deal, good deal.
35:16
I have one last question for you.
35:18
the name of the show, of course,
35:19
is the relentless pursuit of winning.
35:21
And people define winning in whatever way.
35:23
So it could be winning could be,
35:24
hey, I want to get out of debt,
35:26
or you know, whatever that is.
35:27
The hard part, and we talked about this a little bit,
35:30
is being able to maintain that relentless pursuit.
35:32
Mm-hmm. ~
35:33
So, how
35:34
would you recommend our audience to maintain that relentless pursuit of winning?
35:39
I think you have to have a clear purpose.
35:41
I think you have to know, like I said,
35:43
with the money where you're going and why you're going there.
35:47
Mm-hmm.
35:47
because when things get hard, that is like the first to fall to the wayside.
35:52
if you don't have a clear vision of what it is you're trying to achieve,
35:57
Mm.
35:58
then just saying like, I want money,
36:01
or you know, if there's no clear purpose of
36:05
What lies for you at the end of the road,
36:07
I don't know why you would keep going.
36:09
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I agree with that.
36:11
Gotta have purpose. Gotta have purpose.
36:13
I know my purpose has brought me back,
36:15
~ ~ giving me giving
36:16
Yeah.
36:16
me the grounding that I needed to to do certain things.
36:19
So I like that. Great response.
36:21
Veronica, thank
36:21
Thank you.
36:22
you so much. This has been an enjoyable conversation.
36:25
Thanks, Rick. Thanks for having me.
36:26
Absolutely, absolutely. And folks,
36:28
thank you so much for watching or listening to another episode
36:31
of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
36:33
We will catch you next time.