Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / Broken to Rebuilt: Leadership Under Pressure | Eric Reily

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Broken to Rebuilt: Leadership Under Pressure | Eric Reily · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

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  A lot of my confidence
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  came from my athletic abilities.
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  And I didn't have that at that moment.
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  I had to find other ways.
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  I ended up knowing more about the team that I had post my traumatic injury than I ever knew.
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  There was a level of openness and vulnerability that was very, very different.
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  We spent so much time teaching how to be managers, how to execute, how to delegate.
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  Those are important management skills, but the leadership side is totally and completely different.
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  If you want to check your own box, that's fine.
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  But don't check
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  other people's boxes.
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  Hey folks, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
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  My name is Rick Meekins.
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  I am your host today.
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  And in this studio we have Eric Reilly.
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  How are you today, sir?
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  I'm awesome, Rick.
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  I'm excited to see where this goes.
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  I am too.
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  I am too.
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  Let's see.
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  So Eric, do me a favor, before we jump into this, would you give our audience a little a little bit of a background on who you are, what you do?
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  Absolutely.
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  I am first and foremost I'm a husband to an incredible woman.
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  My wife is also a remarkable mother.
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  She's also the editor of my books.
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  So I I'm very fortunate and lucky.
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  I'm a father of three adult kids.
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  I come from a large family.
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  My dad was a pretty well known radiologist and physician in the upstate New York area, started one of the first outpatient imaging centers.
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  My mom was a remarkable woman.
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  So my mother is my leadership model in my book.
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  So hopefully this not only gives you an audience an idea of a little bit about who I am, but maybe some areas that you can dig into and explore a little bit more.
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  what else about me?
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  So I I I say former athlete.
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  I still try to be an athlete,
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  Never an expert in one particular sport, but I was always pretty good at a lot of different athletic endeavors.
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  music has been a big part of my life.
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  I've been a drummer ever since I can remember.
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  And my daughter is quite an accomplished drummer.
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  And I've spent the last 30 years in healthcare and and pharma leading teams on the sales side.
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  And about a year ago that
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  I took all the leadership experience I had and I started my own advisory company.
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  So I am now a author, keynote speaker, lecturer, and advisory consultant in the leadership realm.
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  And that's where my life has taken me.
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  Yeah.
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  that.
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  Love that.
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  Love that.
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  So you said you said that you're you said you took a left turn.
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  What what caused that?
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  What was the impetus for that?
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  That's a great question.
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  I don't know the cause for it.
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  As I as I this is the way I'm wired.
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  I I typically when I communicate, I don't necessarily like to tell people what I don't what I think or what I don't know.
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  I can certainly tell the story and let people draw their own conclusions.
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  So I'll tell you the story pretty briefly, which is thirty years leading teams.
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  I think I've run the analysis.
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  I think I made the company I work for three and a half billion dollars over that thirty years.
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  I've led
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  seems hundreds of people.
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  I also have some physical issues.
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  I had a pretty traumatic physical experience t almost 10 years ago.
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  it changed my life and we can certainly go down that road as well.
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  And the company that I work for, make a long story short, I would say prior to 2019, right around the COVID time, I would go toe-to-toe with anybody and say that was the greatest
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  private organization on the face of the planet.
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  as a large company, it changed dramatically.
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  The leadership changed.
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  it went from being a supportive organization to kind of being a micromanagement organization.
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  And with my physical issues that I had from a traumatic injury, I I had difficulty, I didn't have difficulty doing the job or leading people or leading teams.
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  I had difficulty doing it the way that the the company wanted my the leadership job to be micromanaged.
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  Mm.
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  I've done rehab two to three days a week for the last 10 years.
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  And they changed my geographic area.
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  I ended up having to work hours and hours away from home.
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  and it it was a struggle.
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  And I I had complications.
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  because of this injury for the last 10 years.
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  And I picked up a new boss.
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  And my complications to that person was really just a complication to them, I think, in getting revenue and doing checking the boxes.
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  And so while I still continue to make a ton of money for the company and I led the team, if you ask any member of the team, they got everything that they needed.
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  and my life became very difficult.
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  I
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  I I needed an accommodation.
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  I needed to work a little bit more virtually so I could do my rehab.
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  my new boss was asking me to do everything in my job and their job.
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  And including they wanted me to run like a national level meeting, which was my boss's meeting.
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  And I I said, Listen, if you want me to do that, do I don't think you understand all the additional stuff you're asking me to do?
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  If you want me to do this.
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  I'll do my best at it.
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  And I did.
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  last April we had the meeting.
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  I brought in a guest speaker.
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  I don't know if you ever talked to the Iron Cowboy, James Lawrence.
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  He's an incredible athlete.
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  he's a guest speaker.
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  I ran this meeting from soup to nuts.
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  Eight hours after the meeting, I got a phone call that said, Eric, today's your last day working here.
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  Wow.
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  Did they give a why?
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  I asked and the the the short answer is we don't have to tell you.
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  You're an at will employee and they made it even sound like they're not allowed to tell me.
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  And so I I long I felt like I left a lot of my employees high and dry.
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  Some of them kinda it wasn't
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  I would say that it wasn't necessarily a surprise.
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  I could hardly believe that they actually would do something like that, but the way the company was evolving, it didn't shock me.
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  I think my wife and my kids took it a hell of lot harder than I took it.
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  I didn't take it great.
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  took me a little bit
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  a time to get back on my feet I've had a fair amount of left turns in my life, and that was definitely a left turn.
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  it it's hard when you feel like you've you've given your heart and soul to an organization and one that I kind of grew up in the business world and I love to death.
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  yeah, so no, I didn't really get an explanation or a why that was, let's just say
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  credible or satisfied any curiosity whatsoever.
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  Yeah, that's painful.
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  That's painful.
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  I wanna work a little bit backwards.
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  So, you know, just for our so our guests have some or our audience has some context and if you don't mind, can you go into that story about what happened you know ten ten years ago,
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  that that traumatic situation?
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  I'm happy to.
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  And this has become part of my life and story.
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  I I do I have a talk and a lecture on it.
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  And it's again, kinda came out of nowhere.
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  your life can change so quickly in a blink of an eye.
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  And like I said, I I am a former athlete, I was always kind of like collegiate level, everything from basketball
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  So water skiing, snow skiing, stuff I love to do.
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  And the person that I spent a lot of time training water skiing, so not necessarily just like recreational water skiing, I'm talking like shortline water slalom water skiing, was
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  also a cyclist.
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  And I really picked up the cycling aspect.
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  Uh it's I have a an addictive personality when it comes to athletics.
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  So I got into biking, I got into triathlons.
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  So right around don't know number of triathlons, and this event happened mid September of 2015.
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  I was trained for a triathlon.
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  I was on my triathlon bike.
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  It was an absolutely stellar day.
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  I was I was going a little downhill, so I I was definitely going fast.
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  I was probably going 30, which is fast for a tri bike if you're going distances, but I was definitely a little bit of a down downhill going.
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  And I saw somebody, a woman that was going to come out of a side street to the right.
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  And it's often when I'm on the right, that's what I always look out for because people can't really s hear you, they can't really see you.
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  Most people have no idea how fast you're going on a tri bike and they tend to pull out in front of you.
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  So I was looking at that woman, and I was looking at that woman.
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  I saw her look across the street, and I could see the look of terror in her eyes.
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  And before I knew it,
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  I was hit head on by an oncoming driver.
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  And she saw it coming before I saw it coming because my eyes were kind of on her.
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  yeah.
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  So the impact was to like my left front, because you kind of come this way, and it wasn't directly head on, so it was it was, you know, 80, 90% head on.
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  And the impact definitely came in the front to the
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  So the side part of my hip area.
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  That's where the direct impact was.
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  And then I turned, I smashed into the windshield.
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  and that's the last thing that I remember.
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  I I remember getting hit.
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  I remember turning, I remember smashing into the windshield, and I remember going in, it was almost, it was weird.
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  It was dreamlike.
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  I don't know if you ever had a dream where you feel like you're flying and you can't control it.
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  Well, that was kind of like real life.
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  It was slow-mo, and then that was it.
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  I don't remember anything else until I don't know how long it had g been, but there was a man there who was an off duty police officer.
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  So it it it had to be a little bit of time.
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  And then the woman kept saying, Don't die.
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  That's what I was waking up to.
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  Don't die.
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  Don't die.
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  Don't die.
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  and then the police officer was there trying to wake me, revive me, and he he was able to get me attentive.
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  And yeah, that's when I r had realized I just got crushed and I could not I couldn't move.
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  Um yeah, the weird thing is was it was eerily quiet.
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  I totally thought I was gone.
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  I thought I was dead, I think the cop thought I was dead, I think the woman thought I was dead, I think the teenage driver thought that I was gonna die.
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  Mm.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Wow, that's that's that's traumatic.
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  That's that's incredible.
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  I I wow.
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  and and so this is this is a big deal.
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  You know, obviously this is disrupting your entire life.
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  You know, this is, you know, unfortunately, I mean these these things happen in life.
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  I mean, how do you
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  How do you get your mindset right?
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  I mean, you went back, you know, at a certain point and you're leading your team again.
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  And, you know, you've got your wife and children that are looking to you.
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  Dad, are you okay?
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  You know, honey, are you okay?
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  What what's what's that journey like, you know, for you getting back on back on you know, back on the bike, so to speak?
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  It was a long, painful journey.
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  it wasn't it wasn't all bad.
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  I I gotta say, there were and I can I can share some of this, there were definitely some gifts.
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  I'm not I wouldn't I am not gonna say that I would like this to happen again, but there were some gifts that I don't know that I could get any other way in life.
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  so I guess maybe the the first part is to talk about the
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  the long road to recovery.
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  I I had so many fractures the doctors, they pretty much said we stopped counting.
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  Pretty much every every rib, everything in your back.
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  I I lacerated my bowel.
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  I punctured my lung.
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  and that was the easy part.
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  The surgeon came in and said look, we need to go in and operate now.
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  I'm gonna try to keep it not too gory because sometimes I know listeners
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  can be very sympathetic to people suffering and struggling.
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  And I don't want to be too too descriptive, but I think that would do it justice is a a good part of the muscle from my hip and my back was taken off the bone and they had to put
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  it back.
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  And they said, if we don't do this, you will die very quickly.
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  and that that needs to be done now.
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  So that I would say even now, all the fractures and all the stuff that I broke
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  That that was like a nothing burger.
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  I I was in so much pain from the muscle that detached from my hip and my back.
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  so how did I how did I get through that?
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  I think the first thing is I I I've always been a a person in faith.
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  I
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  Yeah you almost realize I d you don't control everything.
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  I know everybody believes different things.
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  I don't really believe that I control I like to think that I can control my life, but I don't know that I really I really do.
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  and I learn to let go of a lot of things and be so people call it patience and I call it patience too.
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  It's that concept of of letting go and doing whatever you can do one step at a time.
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  And whatever happens, you just you gotta let go and you gotta deal with it.
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  And that was not easy for me.
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  my wife helped me with that, my kids helped me with that.
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  And thank God at the time, we had talked about the left turn I had in business and just recently that that started this latest chapter of my life.
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  Back when this happened ten years ago, I was surrounded by I had an incredible boss,
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  I was surrounded by incredible leaders at the time and they helped me.
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  My road to recovery, um, I kinda am still recovering now, but getting back leading my teams, I was I say this in all truthfulness, I was not even half the leader I was for at
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  least a year, maybe more.
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  And my team was patient, my boss was patient, my family was patient, my kids were patient.
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  the other
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  part that got me through was I and I I don't know exact I've always tried to be a grateful person, but this concept of gratitude got me through it.
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  and I I've learned, at least for me, the concept of gratitude is a very powerful and interesting concept.
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  And it I've learned that it also changes over time.
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  I call them my constant, my the things I'm constantly grateful for and then the little things I'm grateful for.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And then the things that are really important are the things that you're grateful for in in a period of time.
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  So I'll give you an example.
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  I was just grateful initially to be alive.
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  That la that lasted for about a week.
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  And I this is probably not gonna sound very good for make me look very good, but honestly, after about a week or two, that wasn't enough.
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  And I don't I don't know that that's
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  Totally unique and I think most people are wired like that.
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  So I needed to find something else that I was grateful for.
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  A couple months later I was grateful that I could walk.
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  And then after that, it was like, okay, that's not enough.
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  I I need to find I need to find something else that I'm grateful for.
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  And that kept me moving forward.
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  Nice.
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  Nice.
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  You know, that's that's interesting.
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  It's I I think about that like just just in the business context, because you know, things happen.
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  I mean, the b the big thing that happens is for most of us is or for all of us was was COVID, you know, and being able to kind of walk through that with with a mindset of
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  understanding that you don't have the level of control, you know, that we all thought we had, you know, very clearly.
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  But you know, just being able to continue sometimes like just one day at a time.
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  I think sometimes and we forget those little victories.
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  My my my coach she always tells me she's like, you know, Rick, you need to celebrate this little thing and it's it's it's a matter of gratitude and it also helps us to I g I guess
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  it helps our nervous system, you know, just to just to you know, just just to kind of regulate.
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  Is is that kind of what you experienced?
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  No doubt.
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  And I think that that's where the the I don't want to say chasing something different than I'm grateful for, but I I think that you're right.
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  It's the it's the nervous system.
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  I don't know if it's the endorphins.
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  but it it goes back to honestly, I try to be as honest as I possibly can with myself.
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  And I it's hard for me to admit, but it's true.
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  I stopped being great just being alive was not enough.
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  Um I felt like, okay, I yes, of course I'm grateful I'm alive.
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  But I still want more.
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  And then I was like, okay, now I can start actually a couple months later, I was actually starting able to move.
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  And I was like, okay, I am grateful I can walk.
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  But then I needed something more to be grateful for because that that gratefulness of being able to walk was kind of short-lived.
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  I'm like, am I ever going to be able to run again?
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  Am I ever going to be able to ski again?
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  Am I ever going to be able to play basketball with my kids again?
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  And I will say that.
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  I I didn't like that part about me where I was always searching for something else to be grateful for, but searching for something else to be grateful for did keep me moving
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  forward.
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  So maybe it's a it's I am a per I I do believe in balance, and I don't know if I struck the right balance, but I think that's probably what I'm trying to say is I struggled with
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  saying, admitting, okay, I need to find something else to be grateful for while still being grateful that I was still alive, which I which I was, but it just wasn't enough to
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  keep me moving forward.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  I can under I can understand that.
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  I I'm wondering I'm wondering, like as a as a leader, as a a leader of your team, you know, how how did you get I think for I think for me, you know, if I was you know,
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  disabled in in whatever way, you know, I would I would question, you know, people's perceptions of me, you know, and and I suspect that that might impact my my ability to be
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  effective.
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  What what was your experience?
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  I had that experience and that feeling, no doubt, and it that it changed me dramatically.
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  I think in a very good way.
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  and I I'll try to get to what you were explaining pretty quickly, but I think there's a precursor to that, which is the gift that I got from this was that I I I became much
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  smarter.
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  I I will openly admit that A lot of my confidence
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  in myself came from my physical, my athletic abilities.
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  Now clearly you're not an athlete at work, but but to me it didn't matter.
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  A lot of my confidence came from what I could physically do.
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  And I didn't have that at that moment.
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  So I had to find other ways.
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  to be more confident.
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  And that came through learning, being better, being smarter.
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  I I was never a really smart and I I'll still admit I'm not the smartest person in the world.
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  But it was almost like losing a sense and your other senses were enhanced.
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  That's the only way that I can explain it.
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  I feel like I naturally got smarter quicker because I didn't have the physical abilities I had before.
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  I also I lost the feeling of fear of vulnerability.
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  I don't vulnerability may not be the right word.
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  I was always more of a a cautious, I don't, I don't want to admit that I have these shortcomings.
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  I don't
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  like you were talking about.
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  I don't want to admit that I'm not capable of doing things.
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  That experience dramatically changed me.
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  And I it's not that I I don't want to say that I didn't care.
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  It wasn't a matter that I didn't care.
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  It just didn't bother me anymore.
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  And I became really open and really vulnerable sharing with my team what was going on.
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  I had a lot of people on the team that actually came to visit me at the house.
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  I was in a full back brace for I think six, four to six months.
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  and initially I was like, you know what, I'm gonna be embarrassed to see these people.
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  I lost a ton of weight.
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  I think it was like 135 pounds.
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  And I looked like a I was gaunt.
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  And I think I think the Eric Riley like 15 years ago would not have wanted that.
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  And the one after that event, I was like, you know what?
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  It is it is what it is.
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  I gotta stop being worried or embarrassed about how I look.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  It does.
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  It does.
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  It does.
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  It does.
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  How d how did you I'm what I'm what I'm wondering about is is coming back from, you know, just such a such a traumatic experience.
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  And and again, I'm I'm looking at it from the perspective that, you know, things happen in life.
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  You know, we we have divorces, we have car accidents, we have these things.
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  And, you know, as a as a leader, people still look to us.
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  you know, while they might be empathetic to to what we're experiencing, they're still expecting us to provide a level of leadership direction in order for them to do the things
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  that they're supposed to do.
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  And so I'm r I'm really curious about how you what what that path was like for you to get back on, you know, to get back to a position where you could lead your team effectively.
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  Yeah, it's a great question.
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  And you gotta let me know if I'm answering it the way you are what what you're looking for in my answer.
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  because when I hear the question, I'm internally hearing something that I'm hearing.
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  And what got me back to being a leader, I I do think that I became a significantly better leader.
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  And the reason yeah, I I I don't wanna say like night and day.
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  Well I w I'm not the smartest person in the world.
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  I think I I'm I'm a pretty business savvy person.
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  I always understood how to get the business.
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  I always understood how to help somebody.
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  What I just what I say are the like the X's and O's how to how to how to block and tackle.
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  What I probably was not great at was the human element of leadership and that vulnerability side.
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  And I'll tell ya after a and to me I realized those are by far
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  The more important components of leading people and leading teams.
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  I ended up knowing more about the team that I had post my traumatic injury than I ever knew.
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  I think they felt like There was a level of openness and vulnerability that was very, very different.
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  And I ended up feeling like, you know what?
• 19:55
  I made the most significant consequential differences in their lives because I actually helped them with a lot of stuff that.
• 20:01
  may not have been work related, like family relation.
• 20:04
  Not that I'm a marriage counselor or I've got the best marriage in the world, but I feel like people opened up and asked me for more advice.
• 20:13
  I think they always trusted the business advice that I got, but maybe they were a little apprehensive or worried about going down the personal road.
• 20:19
  And I feel like after that event, that's where I became actually a significantly better leader.
• 20:26
  I knew the teams better.
• 20:27
  I knew the people better
• 20:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:29
  all their family names, I knew what their passions were, what their struggles were.
• 20:33
  I mean their health rel and areas that I wouldn't even initially ask them about.
• 20:37
  They would just start voluntarily sharing.
• 20:40
  Hey, Eric, I'm s I'm struggling with this.
• 20:41
  What what what do you think?
• 20:43
  What would you do?
• 20:44
  Any advice?
• 20:45
  and hopefully that answered your question because I think that is what not only does that what help me.
• 20:51
  bridge that gap to being getting back to being a leader for them, I I think it gave my team exactly what they were looking for and what they needed, which again is part of me, I
• 21:01
  I don't want to say I hate to admit it, but yes, I did get some, I did get some gifts from this awful experience.
• 21:07
  And that that was one of the gifts.
• 21:09
  I became a much better leader.
• 21:11
  not to mention the fact that I I I've never tried to judge a book by its cover.
• 21:15
  But man did I not know what that meant until my cover looked different.
• 21:20
  Does that make sense?
• 21:22
  Yeah.
• 21:23
  I think about that you know, perhaps from a confidence perspective.
• 21:26
  But I but there's and and you mentioned that.
• 21:28
  You you you mentioned there were certain obstacles you had to overcome.
• 21:31
  But what I've what I found most interesting is, you know, as a leader, you know, growing up, you know, learning leadership, we were always taught to keep, you know, personal and
• 21:41
  business separate.
• 21:42
  But you've integrated the two.
• 21:44
  Do you is that something that you recommend to other leaders?
• 21:47
  I do.
• 21:48
  I r I recommend it strongly.
• 21:50
  It's it's in my book.
• 21:51
  It's two of the five pillars in my book are really d built around human interaction and having those personal connections.
• 21:58
  One is belief and the other is humanity.
• 22:00
  I find that they're incredibly important.
• 22:03
  and I often say this, there's there's really no right way to do it, but there are some wrong ways to do it.
• 22:09
  And I feel like
• 22:11
  It has to be genuine.
• 22:12
  A l it's a leader has to be curious.
• 22:14
  I I've seen people that try to relate to people to blend, I guess to get back to your blending that work and family are work and life.
• 22:24
  And they try to they try to find out something about the life so they can squeeze more out of them out of work.
• 22:31
  That is not the way to do it.
• 22:34
  And I feel
• 22:35
  What does work is if you're truly just interested in the person and you want to get to know more out of them in life and help them in life, don't say, I'm helping you here.
• 22:44
  Now, now you need to do X, Y, and Z here.
• 22:47
  that's where it's typically not not a match.
• 22:51
  And I think that that's that's a that's an element that I think business leaders really struggle with because to me that's the difference between management and leadership.
• 22:58
  And I think that we've really struggled
• 23:00
  Teaching people, We spent so much time teaching them how to be managers, which is just the X and the O's, how to execute, how to delegate.
• 23:08
  And those are sometimes so Those are important management skills, but the leadership side is totally and completely different.
• 23:16
  and the questi the question I always ask is, okay, look, you got a team of 16 people.
• 23:20
  If you're on a deserted island, how many of those 16 are going to voluntarily follow you?
• 23:24
  If it's not 16, you're not a leader.
• 23:27
  Yeah.
• 23:27
  just following you because they have to, because you're paying them or they are they fear something.
• 23:32
  That's not really being a leader.
• 23:36
  so I d I the short answer is yes.
• 23:38
  I think The connectivity between the personal side and the business side is is really important.
• 23:44
  and there are many, many ways to do it, but just be careful about yeah, just I want to find something personally related.
• 23:51
  out of you so I can get more out of you.
• 23:53
  And people are perceptive and people are perceptive enough to know that.
• 23:56
  absolutely.
• 23:57
  Absolutely.
• 23:58
  De define leadership to me.
• 23:59
  Def define what a what a good leader.
• 24:01
  no, let's let's say the yeah, define what a good leader is to you.
• 24:06
  Yeah, I I think that at at its core is what I just what I just shared.
• 24:09
  I I I I d I do think and I I love trying to make things simple as possible.
• 24:14
  A leader is somebody that people truly want to follow voluntarily.
• 24:19
  There's no fear there, there's no there's there's no judgment there.
• 24:24
  they're not doing it to sue the means.
• 24:26
  They're doing it because they voluntarily choose to follow somebody.
• 24:31
  They believe in the cause.
• 24:32
  th there's no there's no stick, there's no punishment.
• 24:35
  It's something that they voluntarily sign up to do.
• 24:38
  And I I think that's one of the reasons why.
• 24:40
  I mean, we talked about military before.
• 24:42
  I think that's one of the reasons why the US military is very unique.
• 24:46
  It's they sign up to do it.
• 24:48
  It's all voluntary.
• 24:49
  Um and I so that that's the way I would define it at its at its core.
• 24:53
  what is
• 24:54
  And this is in the book too.
• 24:55
  I I do believe we are all wired.
• 24:58
  We're all born with leadership capabilities.
• 25:00
  I don't know that leaders are actually made.
• 25:02
  I do believe they're they're born.
• 25:04
  I think if you look at the commonalities of all great leaders, and and those commonalities are what I call the pillars, we're all we're all born with them.
• 25:12
  We're all wired to demonstrate them.
• 25:15
  I also believe as humans, we're also we also have this opposing pull when stress, time, money get in the way, we do the exact opposite.
• 25:22
  It's the same thing with with with are you are you leading your children by teaching them to do the right thing?
• 25:28
  Or if time, money and pressure gets in the way, I'm just gonna tell you to do it.
• 25:32
  Just do what I tell you to do.
• 25:33
  Cause I need you to do it and I need you to do it now.
• 25:36
  so does that does that make sense?
• 25:38
  It does.
• 25:38
  It does.
• 25:39
  It does.
• 25:39
  I I one one of the things that I've found about leadership is, you know, it's it's it's a responsibility, you know, that we have.
• 25:48
  I mean, you know, aluding to, you know, what you were saying about, you know, sometimes, you know, it gets difficult and, you know, people people want to just, you know, step out
• 25:55
  of the way.
• 25:55
  There's there's a there's a certain sacrifice, you know, that leaders have to be willing to make.
• 26:00
  You know, leaders have to be willing to be wrong.
• 26:02
  you know, if you're a leader and you're not willing to be wrong to be corrected by the people around you that are actually experts in what they you're you're not, you know,
• 26:08
  you're you're not as effective, you know, as you could be, you know, as a leader.
• 26:12
  And I I think that that's so important.
• 26:13
  I love the the human side of leadership though.
• 26:17
  You know, because we're not just leading, you know, just we're not leading robots.
• 26:21
  We're leading human beings that have lives, that have histories and and that sort of thing.
• 26:25
  I I think it's beautiful.
• 26:26
  I think it's really a beautiful, you know, tapestry.
• 26:29
  you know, that can be, you know, weaved together when you've got a great team with great leadership and great, you know, great members of the team following.
• 26:36
  I fully I couldn't agree more with you.
• 26:38
  one of the things that I talk about when I lecture, particularly with when I I'm I'm doing a lot of college lectures to college students, this concept of of leadership.
• 26:48
  And I I think that most people this kind of they're not if they don't actively think about it, they might
• 26:54
  They might miss the revelation.
• 26:56
  But if you think about your own life, any significant monumental event that occurs in your life typically involves a leader around you.
• 27:05
  Either we just talked about a couple of situations in my life with a traumatic accident and I had some great leaders around me.
• 27:11
  And then what happened to me in business in the last year in corporate America, very different leader.
• 27:16
  I I wouldn't call that part that a leader, but I feel like that.
• 27:20
  the consequential nature of leaders in our lives are so significant and so important for our lives.
• 27:27
  And I'm hoping that by talking to people that that brings that brings that spirit out of them, that they recognize the power that other leaders have on them and that they can have
• 27:38
  with the innate abilities within themselves to have a positive impact on other people as a leader.
• 27:43
  Mm.
• 27:44
  Mm.
• 27:44
  So so there's a level a level of gratefulness.
• 27:47
  I think you're suggesting that, you know, we we need to really embrace like true gratefulness.
• 27:51
  It's like, okay, this person has really poured into me and I've had the opportunity to to receive that.
• 27:57
  yes, and we were spending a little bit of time earlier talking about what the future looks like.
• 28:02
  And I I I I believe this.
• 28:03
  I think there's there's a lot of data and information that is also going in this pathway.
• 28:08
  I I think as humans, with the concern we have with AI, I I I think the concept of leadership, the consciousness that a leader has is not programmable.
• 28:19
  And
• 28:19
  No, right.
• 28:20
  And that's the one thing that will always separate us and the people that understand and embrace that, but it all starts with, like you said, being being aware and being grateful
• 28:29
  for that the potency that a leader has is where it all starts.
• 28:32
  Yeah, yeah.
• 28:33
  And indiv individuality I I think is really important because, you know, I I look at you know, you talk about families.
• 28:39
  you know, I look at my kids, you know, I've I've got, you know, five kids and I have to lead each of them differently because they have different personalities and temperaments
• 28:47
  and and that sort of thing.
• 28:48
  And it's it's something that that evolves over time, you know, as they grow up.
• 28:51
  You know, I could have been authoritative and say, Hey, you need to be more like your brother, et cetera, et cetera.
• 28:55
  But I really wanted them to be able to become the people that they they want and needed to be.
• 29:00
  Like
• 29:01
  they wouldn't lead themselves at some point, but you know, that's the nature of kids.
• 29:05
  But you know what?
• 29:06
  They came back on track.
• 29:07
  And like I can say like all five of my kids, they are moving very progressively in the direction that they want to go in.
• 29:14
  Which is awesome.
• 29:15
  And like we were just talking about, that's where some of the the the personal leadership aha moments transcend to work.
• 29:22
  And I'm not saying employees are like children.
• 29:25
  They're not.
• 29:25
  I would never say that, but there are some parallels, right?
• 29:28
  You're leading your kids.
• 29:30
  You could either lead your kids or you can micromanage your kids.
• 29:33
  And maybe there are some times that you need to manage your kids, depending on what level they are.
• 29:37
  Um it's amazing.
• 29:39
  I mean, I I I've been trained for 20 years.
• 29:41
  I don't know if it's been twenty years, but trained on I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of situational leadership.
• 29:45
  So what you're talking about is situational leadership at home.
• 29:48
  And it works just as well at home as it does in business.
• 29:53
  Yeah.
• 29:53
  I would say that there's been a lot of things, you know, just in I I I see a lot of crossover, you know, running my home versus running my business.
• 30:00
  I mean the the the skills are are transferable, you know, to running a small group or, you know, whatever it is.
• 30:07
  I mean the the skills are are s but the important the the big deal
• 30:11
  if you do it right, because it they both involve people, right?
• 30:14
  They're not exactly the same, but the transferable skill is if you do it right, you're not might managing or micromanaging, you're actually leading people at home or at work.
• 30:22
  That's the com that to me, that's the commonality.
• 30:24
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:25
  Absolutely.
• 30:26
  You know, s speaking of speaking of AI, you know, this this is a big challenge that leaders have now, you know, with this with this adoption, with this rapid adoption, you
• 30:36
  know, that that we're experiencing, you know, a lot a lot of change is happening, a lot of conversations are happening.
• 30:42
  give me your give me your overall impression on on AI, you know, just as just as it is, without even going into, you know, how we need to lead teams with respect to it.
• 30:51
  Yeah, it's a great question.
• 30:52
  I have a, I guess you could say I have a love-hate relationship with AI.
• 30:56
  I think like most people, I do I do use it.
• 30:58
  I maybe not love, but I I am fascinated by it.
• 31:02
  I find it very interesting.
• 31:03
  I don't really have a problem with it as long as it's a tool to help us, to serve us, to help us solve problems, not solve problems for us, but help us solve problems.
• 31:14
  And I really think where the value is.
• 31:16
  If it stays in a truncated fashion where it's it it's an individual experience between Rick and AI or Eric in AI, and I'm choosing what to ask it, that's an individual user
• 31:27
  application.
• 31:27
  I I don't see as much of the danger.
• 31:29
  Where I worry about it is all of a sudden we start giving AI what I call agency over people.
• 31:34
  No longer is it an individual transaction.
• 31:37
  Now AI is telling you what to do, making decisions, making orders, and I'm very concerned about what that.
• 31:43
  means at work for employees.
• 31:48
  and where that's an interest it's a great question because I think our experiment with AI has taught us a lot where the customer is still king.
• 31:56
  And I think businesses will still realize customers are not and look at like the call centers.
• 32:01
  Customers are still not so crazy about they may put up with an AI robot for a couple of minutes, but ultimately like, okay, I just need a human.
• 32:09
  And I think
• 32:09
  I think businesses have realized that and they're sensitive to that.
• 32:14
  I'm not so sure that they're as sensitive to an employee or their employees being unhappy with how AI or what AI does to them.
• 32:23
  And that's my concern is I see companies actually empowering is not the right word, almost like forcing or incentivizing their employees to use AI as much as they possibly can.
• 32:31
  And I I think that's a
• 32:33
  I think that's a troublesome road giving de and it'll take us down a road to giving AI agency over people at work.
• 32:39
  I'm concerned about it.
• 32:40
  I see it in interviewing, I see it in the decision making, and it and it is very different than just the user asking AI to help me know something or create something or write
• 32:49
  something, which that that's totally different.
• 32:52
  I I can see value I see a lot of value in that.
• 32:54
  And I think pe honest people can disagree as to whether that's valuable or not.
• 32:58
  But I think there is value in that and problem solving problems.
• 33:01
  Where you start giving them kind of control or what I call agency is is which has already kind of started.
• 33:06
  I think we you know uh I I hope it doesn't continue.
• 33:10
  Cause I think there's there's varying degrees of levels of giving AI agency.
• 33:15
  I I I hope we we stop at the earlier side of giving them agency.
• 33:19
  And we go down that road.
• 33:21
  That that's pretty I think that's a pro I think that's a big problem.
• 33:24
  And I
• 33:24
  I think where I can maybe connect the dots.
• 33:26
  I think you're asking me or going to ask me before when I interrupted you about the other pillars.
• 33:31
  the other pillars that are in the book, I believe really do a lot to help us as people insulate ourselves from AI.
• 33:38
  I didn't write the book.
• 33:39
  I didn't come up with a leadership philosophy to insulate ourselves from AI.
• 33:42
  I think I think it validates why they're the right pillars, because I don't think they're the pillars
• 33:46
  mean by insulate insulated from AI?
• 33:49
  Well, the pillars are belief, wisdom, humanity, awareness, and guardian.
• 33:53
  I don't see an AI entity being able to demonstrate any of those pillars.
• 33:58
  Right?
• 33:58
  I mean, yeah.
• 34:00
  mimic based on what they're programmed, but I good luck having a conversation with AI about what they believe, or having or sharing what you believe, right?
• 34:08
  I mean that that's only gonna go like so deep.
• 34:11
  Or
• 34:12
  Or being able to demonstrate humanity or may maybe wisdom over time.
• 34:16
  Right now there's they have incredible knowledge.
• 34:19
  you have any ch you have any discussion with Chat GBT and you realize there's not a whole lot of wisdom behind it whatsoever.
• 34:25
  Correct, correct, absolutely.
• 34:27
  and and guardian, which is the which is one of the foundational principles in the book, which is this concept of of of protecting people.
• 34:34
  I mean to to put it short, there's a lot more behind it than just protecting people.
• 34:39
  It's this concept of great leaders are truly committed to others.
• 34:44
  And to me that is a very important distinction between a leader and a manager.
• 34:47
  Managers are not committed to anybody.
• 34:49
  They just demand commitment.
• 34:50
  I'm gonna delegate, I'm gonna tell you what to do, and you do what I tell you to do.
• 34:53
  Yeah.
• 34:53
  leader is committed to other people.
• 34:55
  I don't think that's I mean maybe you can kind of program AI to act like or say like they're committed, but I I I don't I don't see it.
• 35:04
  No, no, I I can't either.
• 35:05
  I mean they're they're at the end of the day, I mean they are they are robots.
• 35:08
  They're very, very, very, very complic very, very complicated robots and I know that they're gonna continue to advance them, but I I I can't imagine, you know, that it would
• 35:19
  have the level of of consciousness.
• 35:21
  It I d you know, it wouldn't have the level of consciousness period to be able to make those make those human like decisions.
• 35:27
  The the the question I was gonna ask though was, you know, as a as a leader, you know, we're going we're taking our our teams, our companies into, you know, new space.
• 35:36
  And we're taking our companies into space that's always evolving.
• 35:39
  You know, and so there's there's not just the direction, but there's you know, there's fear.
• 35:44
  You know, we've heard, you know, across the board, you know, lots of jobs are are changing, lots of jobs are going away, et cetera, et cetera.
• 35:50
  What do you say to leaders?
• 35:51
  How do you how do you help them?
• 35:53
  How do you guide them to lead their teams?
• 35:55
  Like into this into this unknown forest, if you will.
• 35:59
  It is very it is very difficult.
• 36:01
  There's an there's an easy answer, but it is incredibly difficult to do.
• 36:06
  And the easy answer is to tell the truth, not to lie, to to be honest, to be open.
• 36:12
  The reason why that's difficult, and I've experienced this thirty years, and it ebbs and flows.
• 36:17
  The level of honesty that I can provide is only based I can be honest.
• 36:22
  But can I be I can only be honest as much as the information that I'm being given from my boss or my boss's boss.
• 36:28
  So if my boss is being lied to by my boss's boss, how am I supposed to sift through that nonsense?
• 36:35
  And this is something else I talk about is this concept of duplicity, which is probably one of my biggest corporate pet peeves, where managers or leaders say something and then
• 36:44
  they do something different.
• 36:45
  And that that is what I call the duplicity effect.
• 36:48
  And there's way too much of it that goes on in business.
• 36:50
  And that is that is that is the problem.
• 36:53
  But it all does start with telling the truth, being honest.
• 36:57
  And you don't have to tell people like everything, every gritty detail, but you have to be honest enough for them to to get the full picture.
• 37:05
  You can't keep something from people so that they don't understand the picture.
• 37:10
  You have to tell them enough so that they can make
• 37:12
  the right decision for them and their families based on the information that you share with them.
• 37:17
  And that that's that's to me, that's the right thing to do.
• 37:21
  That does often that that can result in some painful points for you as a leader.
• 37:26
  Somebody may decide, okay, I appreciate that honesty.
• 37:28
  I need to go somewhere else.
• 37:30
  Well, uh that that would to me, that would be in r relentless pursuit of winning.
• 37:34
  That might be a short term loss, but in the in the in the end game, that is a win.
• 37:39
  Because I don't want to keep somebody on my team because I'm lying to them.
• 37:43
  And I would never do that, but I I I've seen a lot of that that happens.
• 37:47
  And I don't think that that's a good dynamic.
• 37:48
  So the short answer is it starts with the try to guide them to what good looks like.
• 37:53
  Have the vision, have the goal in mind, lead them to what that is, but don't lie to them.
• 37:58
  Be honest, be transparent.
• 38:00
  And it's not just what you say.
• 38:02
  It's all I feel like I'm I'm preaching to you.
• 38:05
  I I mean in general, right?
• 38:06
  It's it's not just what we say as leaders, it's what we say and it's what we do when is there a match between those two things?
• 38:12
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:13
  That that is that is that's that's certainly valid.
• 38:16
  That's certainly valid.
• 38:16
  I'm thinking back to COVID.
• 38:18
  you know, when we didn't have, you know, again, we didn't have a lot of the answers, you know, as in the in the leadership team.
• 38:22
  The the what I s what I see with with AI though is is the changes are happening so quickly.
• 38:29
  You know, it was it's like I I th I was looking at I I think it was Claude
• 38:33
  you know, last week they came up with the most advanced version of Claude ever.
• 38:37
  And then this week they advanced the most advanced version of Claude ever.
• 38:41
  It was just like it was just a week, you know, between between these between these massive upgrades.
• 38:46
  And so, you know, with these upgrades, it incre increases capability.
• 38:50
  You know, it it increases the ability for these software, the software to be able to do what it does.
• 38:56
  You know, and so
• 38:56
  when we look at we we were talking about my friend the the the mortgage underwriter and you know it's like how do I how do I lead her, you know, with some level of confidence
• 39:06
  when I don't have all of the information?
• 39:09
  How do I make sure that she's, you know, comfortable as possible in in her job, being productive in her job, you know, not going home worrying about, hey, am I going to have a
• 39:19
  job tomorrow?
• 39:19
  How how do I how do I do that?
• 39:21
  That's a tough one.
• 39:22
  I think one of the things that might help again, this how should I put it?
• 39:26
  I don't want to say contentious, but it it might it might create some some short term concern.
• 39:31
  I always start though with you gotta face the facts with some questions and maybe that's the place to start.
• 39:37
  How much has she thought about what aspects of her job are replaceable?
• 39:41
  You know, let's just let's just take you.
• 39:44
  your best friend at her at her best and AI at what we know is their best.
• 39:48
  What parts of her job are replaceable?
• 39:51
  I feel like asking those questions, this I'm gonna sound like I'm an advertisement, but it does get back to one of my pillars, which is awareness.
• 39:57
  And to me, the concept of awareness all starts from asking your not before you self-talk, it's self-question.
• 40:04
  So ask those questions, okay, what parts of my job are replaceable?
• 40:08
  What aspects are how much
• 40:10
  Customer orientation is involved.
• 40:12
  If it's a lot of customer orientation and she's not really good at customer orientation, she should get better at customer orientation.
• 40:18
  But it sounds like she's a master at customer orientation.
• 40:21
  And if she asks those questions and the answers are, well, 90% of my job is interacting with a customer and solving problems that are kind of nuance related.
• 40:30
  And I'm really, really good at that.
• 40:32
  I gotta think by by delving into those questions and getting those answers.
• 40:36
  My guess is that she's going to feel like, okay, I'm actually more comfortable.
• 40:40
  I don't think I can, not only am I not going to be replaced, I can't be replaced.
• 40:44
  Because 90% of my job involves human nuance, connection, consciousness, and I'm really good.
• 40:51
  Okay, is AI gonna know the mortgage industry better than I do?
• 40:56
  Like that?
• 40:57
  Fine.
• 40:57
  Yes.
• 40:57
  The answer is probably yes.
• 40:59
  But are they gonna be able to apply that to
• 41:01
  Customer Eric and customer Rick at the blink of a dime based on what their concerns are.
• 41:05
  No.
• 41:06
  And going down those roads, asking those questions, it sounds like she's probably going to come to the conclusion, okay, I actually feel better.
• 41:13
  I I might need to make sure that I I stay up and master how to engage with customers and solve their problems.
• 41:20
  Cause let's face it, even you said it, there's no way she's going to be able to compete with what AI knows.
• 41:26
  None of us are.
• 41:27
  I I I I think we've
• 41:29
  We've realized we've got to give that game up.
• 41:30
  That's that's not a winning game.
• 41:32
  Talking about the win the relentless pursuit of winning, that's not a winnable game for us.
• 41:37
  The winnable game for us is relating to customers, the consciousness side, the leadership side.
• 41:42
  hopefully that answers your question.
• 41:44
  Absolutely.
• 41:45
  Absolutely.
• 41:45
  Absolutely.
• 41:46
  Good stuff.
• 41:46
  Yeah.
• 41:47
  So what what I heard you say is what what I heard you say is is, you know, we we help our teams understand, you know, basically what we might call like the defensible zone, the the
• 41:56
  areas where we know that AI cannot, you know, replace us and then become experts in those areas.
• 42:02
  I I I think that that's brilliant.
• 42:04
  Um let's talk
• 42:05
  it depend yeah, go just to connect that thought.
• 42:08
  And I I don't think it I mean, it I think you can translate to any business, whether it's the mortgage industry or sales or healthcare or pharma, but it all starts by going really
• 42:18
  spending the time, which a lot of people don't afford themselves, is to ask those questions and then and then answer them.
• 42:25
  And then I think it'll take them down the road to what they need to be better at.
• 42:29
  And where, you know what, okay, I'm gonna have to give in.
• 42:31
  You know, AI is always gonna be smarter than me.
• 42:33
  That that's that's that doesn't really matter.
• 42:36
  As long as as long as people are competent enough to answer the questions and do the job, that's not what necessarily pays people.
• 42:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:46
  The one thing that always rattles around in my in my in my brain, with regard to AI is just, you know, the the thought that people's level of expectation just begins to
• 42:55
  deteriorate.
• 42:56
  You know, it's like we've got, you know, AI generating music, we've got AI generating art, et cetera, et cetera.
• 43:01
  And then that becomes the norm.
• 43:03
  You know, and and that and that's kind of scary.
• 43:04
  You know, and and you know, as as a created being, you know, if you think about your creator, he took the time to, you know, mold each of us like individually, personalities,
• 43:13
  looks, et cetera, et cetera.
• 43:14
  And it's like we take that away.
• 43:16
  You know, or AI or we don't appreciate it, I should say, as as much.
• 43:21
  And it's it's a scary thought to me.
• 43:22
  It's scary, it's ironic.
• 43:24
  I think you're right that the we're so interesting as beings, but I may I don't know how to explain this, but you you are right.
• 43:32
  We have shown in history a pattern to be conditioned to certain things that may not be in our best interest.
• 43:39
  And that is that's a scary thing too, right?
• 43:42
  You're whether it's video games or just addicted to social media.
• 43:45
  Yeah.
• 43:46
  And I'm not I'm not a anti social media, anti v that's not the point that I'm trying to make.
• 43:51
  That I we do we you had mentioned the word getting conditioned to lesser and lesser expectations of ourselves.
• 43:57
  I think we've seen that through history.
• 43:59
  and that's a it's a very interesting irony in us how creative we are, how miraculous we are, but yet we do fall prey to being conditioned to some of the weirdest things on the
• 44:10
  planet.
• 44:11
  We really do.
• 44:12
  We really do.
• 44:12
  We really do.
• 44:19
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 44:20
  I I I think I think things come to I I I think think we'll see things evolve.
• 44:25
  I think we'll see history repeat itself again.
• 44:27
  I wanna talk about your book.
• 44:29
  you wanna you wanna share a little bit about your book with our audience?
• 44:32
  Yeah, so the the book, the name of the book is Noble Leadership Wielding the Sword and the Shield.
• 44:36
  It's the same as the company name, which is Noble Leadership Initiative.
• 44:40
  and we've touched upon it a little bit, and it all started, it all started with the journey that happened a year ago.
• 44:46
  And the name actually kind of came from my kids.
• 44:48
  They were they were really relating to the experience that I had.
• 44:52
  And one of them said, Dad, there's there's like no no noble leadership ex
• 44:56
  at all in what's happened to you.
• 44:57
  After 30 years, that that's just terrible.
• 45:00
  And I was like, okay, that that's kind of a cool concept when you really think about noble and nobility and and it's kind of a play on words to where your podcast is the relentless
• 45:10
  pursuit of winning.
• 45:11
  The concept and I I I try to make this really clear because it can kind of come across as sounding really arrogant.
• 45:18
  I'm I'm not a noble leader.
• 45:19
  It's some it's what I strive to be.
• 45:21
  It's it's the vision.
• 45:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 45:23
  really, I found it's a really cool don't want to say mind truck, because that that that really shortens it or cheapens it, but it is effective.
• 45:31
  I mean, wake up every day trying to tell yourself you're a noble podcaster or a noble student or a noble leader.
• 45:37
  It's really hard if you wake up every day and say you're a noble student to be a really crappy student or start giving your teachers attitude.
• 45:44
  and that's part of it's the other part.
• 45:46
  I wanted a a word and a and a
• 45:49
  a name that I could relate to that was easily relatable.
• 45:52
  And it was more of the spirit of I'm not there.
• 45:55
  I don't know that I'm ever going to truly be, I'll probably never truly be a noble leader, but I'm going to strive the rest of my life to try to do it.
• 46:02
  So that's where the name came from.
• 46:04
  And then I started I started writing, sharing all my experiences as a leader, the good, the really bad.
• 46:10
  I think I've seen just about everything and everything in between.
• 46:13
  And
• 46:14
  He asked me about hiking and sports, and I tell people, I spent a lot of time writing the book in my head while I was hiking.
• 46:19
  And then I would write down all the pearls that came to me while I was hiking, and the memory came back.
• 46:24
  And then my wife would tell me, No, this isn't good.
• 46:27
  Or you'd tell me, This is great, but I I need to fix it because it's not readable.
• 46:32
  But what an awesome idea.
• 46:34
  so that was an awesome experience writing it with my wife, having an editor.
• 46:38
  There was talking about AI.
• 46:40
  There was not a scintilla of AI that touched the book.
• 46:43
  From me writing it to putting it on paper to my wife editing it, there was no AI whatsoever.
• 46:49
  It all came from me and it was kind of cool having my wife edit it where it wasn't an independent editor that didn't know me.
• 46:54
  There's nobody that knows me better than my wife.
• 46:56
  and the premise is we talked about before, where I believe there's a leader in all of us.
• 47:01
  it's a responsibility.
• 47:03
  It is something that we should recognize the importance of in all of our lives.
• 47:07
  We're all born with the capabilities to be a noble leader, but we also have this selfish, self-centered pull.
• 47:13
  It's okay to admit that.
• 47:14
  And it's a matter of unlocking what's within us and striving for the noble leader and kind of stiff arming all of those bad or evil tendencies, I guess you could say we all have.
• 47:25
  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 47:27
  I I like that.
• 47:28
  I I I begun doing like affirmations, you know, sort of like that, like in the in the morning during my quiet time.
• 47:34
  And you know, it was it was interesting.
• 47:35
  I didn't I didn't believe in them, you know, it was kind of like I don't even I don't remember why I started doing it, but I found that my language, like the way that I would
• 47:45
  describe things, the the way that I would talk about things was actually coming from these affirmations and it was like
• 47:50
  it kind of changed my perception on approaching a number of different situations.
• 47:55
  So I I really value, you know, that waking up, hey, I'm a noble podcaster.
• 48:00
  I don't say that.
• 48:01
  But nonetheless, nonetheless, thank you for that.
• 48:03
  Where can people get that get a copy of the book if they want it?
• 48:06
  They can get it on Amazon.
• 48:07
  I'm easy to find.
• 48:08
  The company is easy to find.
• 48:10
  It's noble leadership.
• 48:11
  It's a it's a very cool design that my youngest came up with, which is which is a knight with a sword and the shield, and he's he or she is down on one knee.
• 48:20
  Um and I say he I say he or she because the knight is in armor.
• 48:25
  and the the leadership model that I use in the book is the mother.
• 48:29
  Mm.
• 48:30
  How interesting.
• 48:31
  Why is that
• 48:32
  I've well, for very good reason.
• 48:34
  my mom was the inspiration.
• 48:37
  My mom is an incredible woman.
• 48:39
  She is she has changed a lot.
• 48:41
  She's unfortunately very frail.
• 48:43
  she has had just about every body part replaced in her.
• 48:46
  She's like the six million dollar woman.
• 48:48
  But she was the toughest, most sensitive, smartest, and you talk about responsibility as a leader.
• 48:54
  I was fortunate to have her in my life.
• 48:56
  And again, i I think if you think about it, going back to to everybody's life, the impact that a mother can have as a leader.
• 49:05
  Now, granted, I think people would say that not every mother is a great leader, right?
• 49:10
  But a great mother is a great leader, has the most significant transformation on any being on the face of the planet.
• 49:17
  And I think that could be seen in great mothers, and it can also you can also see the downside.
• 49:21
  Of mothers that are don't that don't actually unlock their noble innate abilities to be a great leader and what happens to their children.
• 49:28
  And so I I walk people down that road in the book and I use them as the model, the ones that demonstrate belief, the ones that demonstrate humanity, wisdom, awareness, and they
• 49:39
  are the guardians of.
• 49:40
  I mean, think about the the transformation from a a newborn to a
• 49:44
  fully powerful adult and the impact the mother has, I d I don't know that any entity on the planet has an impact like that.
• 49:50
  I know I've never had an impact on like on anybody like that.
• 49:55
  Not to take not to take away the impact the dad has or another parent has, but the mother is something special about that ability.
• 50:02
  Yeah.
• 50:02
  I w I can actually I can absolutely concur with that.
• 50:05
  My my mother's had a had an incredible impact.
• 50:07
  I d I didn't realize, you know, the level of impact, but then I r I look at, you know, some of my work and I look at, you know, some of the things I've done over the years and,
• 50:15
  you know, it definitely has my mother's fingerprint fingerprints on it.
• 50:17
  And dad's a very good leader, as as well, you know, with his work.
• 50:21
  And I I think they having the privilege of being able to learn from both of them has been been excellent, but
• 50:26
  Yeah, my my mom's she's still she's she's still doing the mom thing.
• 50:31
  Which which which is beautiful.
• 50:33
  Huh?
• 50:34
  Yeah, I do.
• 50:35
  I do.
• 50:36
  I do.
• 50:36
  I do.
• 50:37
  I do.
• 50:37
  Yeah, I'm I'm very fortunate with that.
• 50:41
  Thank you.
• 50:41
  one last question for you.
• 50:42
  so the name of the podcast, of course, is the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
• 50:46
  And, you know, in general general, most people can define what winning looks like for them.
• 50:50
  difficulty that we face sometimes is that maintaining that relentless pursuit.
• 50:54
  What would you recommend to to our audience in order to maintain that relentless pursuit?
• 50:59
  Yeah, that's a great question.
• 51:00
  I would say that the a my answer, and I I try to try not to be preachy and tell people what they should do or they ought to do.
• 51:08
  I can tell them what I've done and what works for me.
• 51:11
  And hopefully that they can find a way to make it work in their life.
• 51:15
  I w so the question is how do they how do they continue to do that?
• 51:19
  How do they continue to keep that that cause sometimes it's day days can be a little bit of a daily grind, right?
• 51:25
  And
• 51:26
  Life happens.
• 51:28
  Yeah.
• 51:29
  We gotta keep going.
• 51:30
  yeah.
• 51:30
  So I would offer what I've learned is the is again back to that concept of of balance.
• 51:36
  And it's the the concept of balance in the way that I look at it is all through prioritizing what's most important.
• 51:43
  Forget, forget, check the box.
• 51:45
  I've lived a lot of my life in checking the box.
• 51:48
  If you want to check your own box, that's fine.
• 51:50
  But don't check somebody.
• 51:52
  I suggest that you don't check other people's boxes.
• 51:55
  And the balance I find has been most where if I can write down and think about the three or five things that are most important to me, and at the end of the day or the end of the
• 52:04
  week, I need to be honest with myself.
• 52:06
  Did I really spend the time that I should with these top three or five things?
• 52:11
  Or do I feel like, wait a minute, I did I spent like 10% of my time on these things or these
• 52:16
  Or with these people.
• 52:18
  And if I am honest with that, that that helps me continue that relentless pursuit of winning.
• 52:24
  Because that's what it's all about is is focusing and prioritizing the three minor people.
• 52:30
  But they could be things in your life, and that's okay.
• 52:32
  Things or people pick the top three or five and reevaluate them every couple of weeks.
• 52:37
  Am I spending all my time on these things that I say are most important, or am I spending all my time checking somebody else's boxes?
• 52:44
  Mm, mm.
• 52:44
  I really like that.
• 52:45
  I really like that.
• 52:46
  the the focus, the focus.
• 52:48
  I've I've been accused of having too many irons in the fire multiple times.
• 52:52
  It it it's hard not to.
• 52:53
  It's almost like if you've lived in the same house for twenty years, you just accumulate more and more and more and more stuff.
• 52:59
  And I think like we know the more you're in business and you've got experiences, it's just stuff accumulate and pile up.
• 53:06
  And it's hard to sometimes you just gotta kinda go through a filtering process, which I call a prioritizing process.
• 53:12
  And that helps me focused on that relentless pursuit of winning, whatever the winning is for you.
• 53:17
  Winning might be money.
• 53:19
  Winning might be you know, might be purpose.
• 53:22
  You know, everybody's winning is a little bit different, which is why I love your podcast.
• 53:25
  That there's not one right answer.
• 53:27
  Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
• 53:29
  I I I love that as well.
• 53:30
  I love I love your answer.
• 53:31
  Thank you so much for that.
• 53:32
  thank you so much for being on the show.
• 53:34
  I I I really enjoyed our conversation.
• 53:36
  We went all over the place, had no idea where we were going and
• 53:38
  That's okay.
• 53:39
  I I I I loved it.
• 53:41
  I I love going for an open road trip.
• 53:43
  Awesome.
• 53:44
  Awesome.
• 53:44
  Well, we are landing the plane, so thank you so much for being on the show.
• 53:47
  You're welcome.
• 53:48
  thank you for having me.
• 53:49
  This was a pleasure and it was awesome.
• 53:50
  And it's been great getting to know you too.
• 53:53
  likewise.
• 53:53
  Likewise.
• 53:53
  Absolutely.
• 53:54
  Absolutely.
• 53:55
  And folks, I want to thank you for watching or listening to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
• 54:00
  We'll catch you next time.