Latest / The CMO Podcast with Fexingo: Marketing Leadership, Budgets, and Executive Strategy / How CMOs Use Brand Archetypes to Shape Strategy
Transcript
- Lucas: So, Luna, I was reading through some consumer research this week, and it hit me that a lot of the brands we talk about on this show—the ones that just feel inevitable—are basically playing a character. Not in a fake way, but in the sense that they've committed to a personality so fully that every ad, every tweet, every customer service interaction sounds like it comes from the same person. Luna: You mean like the way Nike always sounds like the coach who's going to yell at you until you run faster? Lucas: Exactly. That's the Hero archetype, right? Nike's entire messaging is built around overcoming obstacles and achieving greatness. It's in 'Just Do It,' it's in their sponsorships, it's in the way they talk about athletes. And it's been consistent for decades. Luna: But what about a brand like Apple? They're not exactly the Hero. They're more like the rebel who thinks different. Lucas: That's the Outlaw, or sometimes the Creator—depending on the campaign. And that's the thing: archetypes aren't just a buzzword. They're a practical tool that CMOs can use to make every decision, from the logo to the tone of voice in an error message, feel like it belongs to the same brand. It's a way to create coherence without having to reinvent the wheel every time. Luna: So where does this come from? I mean, Jung's archetypes are usually about the unconscious mind, not about marketing. Lucas: Right, Carl Jung proposed that there are these universal, inherited patterns of thought that show up in myths and stories across cultures. And in the nineties, a couple of marketers—Margaret Mark and Carol Pearson—wrote a book called 'The Hero and the Outlaw' that mapped twelve of these archetypes onto brand personalities. Since then, it's become a staple in brand strategy. Luna: So the twelve are like the Hero, the Outlaw, the Sage, the Innocent—that kind of thing. Lucas: Exactly. You've got the Sage, who values wisdom and truth—think of Google or the Economist. The Innocent, who promises simplicity and happiness—like Dove or Coca-Cola. The Explorer, who craves freedom and adventure—like Jeep or Patagonia. Each one has a core desire, a fear, and a strategy that the brand can use to communicate. Luna: But how does a CMO actually use this? I mean, it's one thing to say 'we're the Hero,' but how does that translate into a marketing plan? Lucas: It's about using the archetype as a filter. For example, if you're the Sage, your content should be educational, your tone should be authoritative but approachable, and your visuals should be clean and clear. If you're the Outlaw, you're going to push boundaries, use bolder language, and maybe even court a little controversy. It helps you say no to opportunities that don't fit, which is sometimes more important than saying yes. Luna: So it's a way to keep the brand from becoming schizophrenic as you scale. Lucas: Exactly. And that's what I love about it—it forces you to think about the long game. But there's a risk too. If you pick the wrong archetype, or if you try to be two things at once, you end up with a diluted brand that doesn't resonate with anyone. That's why it's so important to do the work upfront. Luna: Before we go deeper into the 'how,' I want to take a quick step back. We do this podcast every day, and we keep it completely free. No ads, no paywall. And that's possible because a small group of listeners chip in monthly through buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. It's a simple way to support the show if you find value in these conversations. It literally keeps the lights on. And it's not a big ask—just knowing that people like it enough to support it means a lot to us. Lucas: Yeah, and we never want to put that behind a paywall. It's a decision we've made because we believe this information should be accessible. So if you're one of those people who has ever thought, 'this podcast is valuable,' that's the way to show it. But okay, back to archetypes—because I want to talk about how you actually identify what your brand's archetype is. Luna: Yeah, is there a test or something? Like a Myers-Briggs for brands? Lucas: Kind of. There are frameworks that ask questions like: What is your brand's core purpose? What does your brand fight against? What would your brand never do? And then you map the answers to the archetypes. But honestly, a lot of it comes down to looking at your best customers and asking what they're really buying from you. Not just the product, but the feeling. Luna: Can you give an example of a company that got this wrong and then corrected it? Lucas: One that comes to mind is a B2B software company I consulted for a few years back. They were originally positioned as the Creator, all about innovation and building new things. But their customers were actually more risk-averse and wanted reliable, proven solutions. So they shifted to the Sage archetype, and their entire messaging changed from 'look how cool we are' to 'let us help you make the right decision.' It completely turned around their pipeline quality. Luna: So it's not about what you want to be, it's about what your customers need you to be. Lucas: Exactly. And that's the trap a lot of CMOs fall into—they pick an archetype that sounds cool, like the Outlaw, but if your customers are really looking for a trustworthy partner, you're going to alienate them. The archetype has to align with the value you actually deliver. Luna: How does this play out in more tangible ways? Like, how does an archetype affect your ad creative, your social media, your packaging? Lucas: Take the Innocent archetype. Dove uses that with their 'Real Beauty' campaign. The messaging is simple, honest, and focuses on natural beauty without the airbrushing. Their packaging is soft, their colors are clean. Even their social media avoids controversy. Compare that to a brand like Harley-Davidson, which is the Outlaw. Their ads are gritty, they use darker imagery, and they celebrate rebellion. You could take the logo off both and still know which brand is which just from the tone. Luna: So the archetype becomes a kind of internal compass for every piece of content. Lucas: And not just content—also the customer experience. If you're the Caregiver, like Johnson & Johnson, your customer service should be nurturing and reassuring. If you're the Explorer, like REI, you want to empower people to go on adventures. That consistency is what builds trust and loyalty over time. Luna: I've also seen some companies use archetypes to guide their brand voice in AI chatbots. Is that a thing? Lucas: Oh, absolutely. And that's becoming more important as AI becomes a bigger part of the customer experience. A Sage chatbot would give detailed, well-researched answers. An Innocent chatbot would be cheerful and reassuring. The tricky part is making sure the AI actually adheres to that in every interaction, which is a whole new challenge for CMOs. Luna: But what about the danger of becoming a caricature? If you lean too hard into an archetype, don't you risk feeling inauthentic? Lucas: That's a real risk. The archetype is a guide, not a cage. It should inform the tone, but it shouldn't prevent you from being human. For example, Apple is often the Creator, but they also have moments of the Magician, like when they unveil a new product. The best brands blend archetypes in a way that feels natural, but they have a primary one that anchors everything. Luna: And if you're a startup, how early should you be thinking about this? Is this something you need to nail down in year one? Lucas: I'd say it's never too early. Even if you have a tiny budget, you can still define your archetype and use it to guide your messaging from day one. It's actually easier to establish that consistency early than to try to change it later. And when you do grow, you'll have a much clearer brand identity that makes it easier to expand into new markets or product lines. Luna: So, if a CMO wants to start using archetypes, what's the first step? Do they need to bring in a consultant? Lucas: You could, but it's also something you can do internally. Start by gathering your leadership team and asking those questions I mentioned: What's our core purpose? What do we fight against? What would we never do? Then look at your customer feedback and see what themes come up. You might be surprised at what you find. And then, once you have a candidate, test it against your existing content and see if it feels right. Luna: And then you can roll it out across the whole org. Lucas: Exactly. And that's where the real power is. Because when every marketer, every copywriter, every designer is working from the same archetype, you get a brand that feels alive. It's like a band where every member is playing the same song. And that's what separates the brands we love from the ones that just feel like a random collection of campaigns. Luna: That's a great way to put it. So, for our listeners who want to dive deeper, what's the one takeaway you'd want them to remember? Lucas: I'd say this: your brand is not your logo, it's not your product, it's the personality you present to the world. And archetypes are a shortcut to defining that personality in a way that's both psychologically resonant and practically actionable. So take the time to figure out who your brand is, and then be that person consistently. Luna: And maybe run it by your customers first. Lucas: Always. Alright, that's a wrap for today. Join us tomorrow when we talk to a CMO who used archetypes to turn around a struggling retail brand. Until then, keep being your brand.