Latest / FINE is a 4-Letter Word / 23. (S1E23) The Pain of Transformation vs the Pain of Regret with Jess Lilly

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23. (S1E23) The Pain of Transformation vs the Pain of Regret with Jess Lilly · FINE is a 4-Letter Word

0:03
Lori Saitz: Hello, and welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. My
0:07
guest today is Jess Lilly and Jess and I met through the
0:11
coolest. What I don't know what to call it application the
0:14
coolest way possible. It's this program called lunch club.ai.
0:20
I'm not an affiliate. I'm not promoting it. I am promoting it,
0:23
but I don't get paid to promote it. But Jess was my very first
0:27
matchup on lunch club. And then we just stayed connecting.
0:32
Welcome, Jess,
0:33
Jess Lilly: thank you for having me, Lori. Yeah, I love that we
0:38
met on lunch club. And I love that I get to be on your
0:41
podcast, because one of the things I remember from our very
0:44
first meeting is that you introduced me to just how simple
0:49
and painless it can be to get on a podcast and actually just
0:53
start being heard and using my voice. And at the time, I was so
0:57
hesitant to just jump in, and you inspired me and you
1:01
catalyzed me. So this is very meaningful to me that I am
1:04
actually on your podcast.
1:06
Lori Saitz: Thank you. That's awesome. Yeah, it really I mean,
1:09
it's just a conversation. We're just having a conversation for
1:13
the world to hear, but still. No pressure.
1:17
Jess Lilly: Still have fun. And just a fun opportunity to talk
1:20
to Lori and other people get to hear it too.
1:22
Lori Saitz: Yeah
1:23
Jess Lilly: they're so lucky.
1:25
Lori Saitz: You're right. So let's start out with the
1:29
question that I like to start with, which is what were the
1:32
beliefs and values that were instilled in you, as you were
1:35
growing up that have affected you, as you become an adult?
1:42
Jess Lilly: Ah, this is such a great question. So some of the
1:46
beliefs there, there's, it's interesting, because I think
1:50
I've had, I had a couple of conflicting beliefs instilled in
1:54
me. I'm kind of a believer that, you know, generation to
2:00
generation, people pass the baton, like they do their work,
2:04
like so my grandmother and my grandparents, great generation,
2:07
they did their work. And they did everything that they could
2:10
to move, move the ball on our family, and then they hand the
2:14
baton down. And then my mom and dad do their work. And then they
2:18
hand the baton down. So it's interesting, because I received,
2:22
you know, some super empowering beliefs, I received some
2:26
disempowering beliefs, but I just wouldn't have it any other
2:30
way. Because it all like came together for my, you know, my
2:33
own journey. But one of the beliefs that I was instilled in
2:39
me by my father, is that my sensitivity is a strength. Like,
2:48
oh, that's me. I didn't believe him. At first, like, I really
2:52
was super enrolled in the like, kind of patriarchal, like I had,
2:58
I was kind of convinced by a lot of external things that, you
3:02
know, the fact that I'm, you know, I'm a very sensitive,
3:05
highly emotionally intelligent, empathetic, you know, cry on a
3:09
dime, kind of kind of person, big, hard, big, tender heart.
3:13
And I kind of made myself wrong for that, because I felt way
3:16
more deeply than other people, the people around me things that
3:19
didn't affect other people deeply affected me, I could feel
3:23
other people's feelings like just being in their space. And I
3:26
really believed that that meant there was something wrong with
3:29
me. So I had this kind of, there's something wrong with me
3:32
belief, like, just inherently there's something wrong with me.
3:35
But I also had this belief of my sensitivities, my strength, and
3:39
I had this underlying knowing that I am going to be able to
3:45
use this I don't know how I am like a part of my purpose on the
3:49
planet is using my innate sensitivity and gifts and this
3:54
this like I you know, nowadays, I call it like, a Heart Ball. So
3:59
like my like Heart Ball Enos, my, like, leadership this. And
4:04
so that's really one of the beliefs that he passed to me
4:06
because he's totally a sensitive hardball type, you know, very.
4:11
That's, that's totally him. And he made it clear to me that he
4:14
values that in me.
4:18
Lori Saitz: And it's really interesting, that that you felt
4:21
that it's a liability, though, because other people could feel
4:27
that they're being the opposite of that maybe not feeling or not
4:32
being able to understand other people's feelings would be a
4:35
deficit on their part. So everybody all around is feeling
4:39
there's something wrong with me that there's nothing
4:42
Jess Lilly: Oh, well, and it's so funny because it also you're
4:44
pointing to the fact that, you know, I feel like there's a
4:47
stage in development where you just want to belong, and you
4:50
just want to conform and just be like everybody else. And there's
4:54
this natural progression of No, I want to be fully myself and
4:58
authentic and be distinct and integrate And just be fully me,
5:02
where you get to embrace all these differences that you might
5:04
have or special gifts. But the so that was really, that whole
5:09
journey around my relationship to my sensitivity and my being
5:13
and my authentic self, I think has been just it got catalyzed
5:19
from that kind of conversation from a very, very young age. And
5:24
then there's this other conversation that you know,
5:27
I'll, you know, all the tribute to, I love love loved my
5:32
grandmother, my grandma Shirley. And she also had a ton of
5:37
disempowering beliefs that she trained me in because she wanted
5:42
me to be safe. So she she's this, you know, you know, grew
5:47
up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. Jewish immigrant
5:52
experience, you know, had a lot of fear in her space in general,
5:57
a very hard upbringing, all that stuff. And so she passed on
6:02
stories to me for the explicit purpose for me to be safe and
6:07
okay, but the stories were you need a man to take care of you.
6:12
Don't be fat. You know, just don't like, you know, she was
6:17
constantly monitoring like, you know, what? Is it? How's the
6:22
figure? Is it good? Is it bad? She looked like? Oh, yeah, she's
6:26
Grandma. Grandma Shirley is like, my heavy hitter with the
6:29
accent. She's like, you know? She, she, yeah. So she just had
6:36
this and I learned it. Yes, there was some explicit training
6:41
in that, like for my grandmother of like, Jessie, are you happy?
6:47
I'm like, Yes, grandma, I am happy. No, you're not happy. You
6:49
don't have a boyfriend? When are you going to have a boyfriend?
6:51
Like, she just wouldn't believe I, being a single person was
6:56
also happy and fulfilled. Right? Um, but the place that I learned
7:00
all that stuff, like the kind of disempowered, feminine, like
7:05
perspective, that kind of like, you know, please someone rescue
7:09
me. I learned that mostly from what she modeled and and how she
7:14
spoke about herself,
7:15
Lori Saitz: of course, and I think that's how a lot of us
7:17
learn not necessarily through what is actually said, but what
7:21
we're watching.
7:22
Jess Lilly: Yes. And it's really interesting, because I, you
7:25
know, my grandmother, love love. Again, I just loved her, like,
7:29
she was super dysfunctional, but she had such, I feel so much
7:32
affinity toward her, like, I have a I have a picture of me
7:35
and her like, in my living room. And I think about her all the
7:38
time. Because I feel like she and I were cut from the same
7:41
cloth, but I had the tools and opportunities that I had, and
7:44
she just didn't have those. Right. So like, I have no doubt
7:48
that, you know, sometimes I think about you know, if she
7:51
were born, if for whatever reason, some funny universe
7:55
existed where me and my grandma both lived in this generation
7:59
together, like we would maybe would have, we would have
8:02
started a podcast together. Like She's hilarious and she was
8:07
hilarious and witty, and spicy and strong and all this stuff,
8:12
but never believed about herself. And and she would
8:15
always say, Jesse, you should be a comedian. Those are the big
8:19
thing She always said to Jessie Oh, yeah, you're so funny should
8:22
be a comedian. And, um, you know, she just really believed
8:26
in me on a lot of levels. She really believed in me and loved
8:29
that I was taking my own path. But at the same time, she just
8:33
really wish that I would be safe and in her mind safe is being
8:37
taken care of by a man. And that's just how her belief
8:41
system was. I also really wish that she had lived to be able to
8:45
watch marvelous miss me as all that show about the Jewish, you
8:51
know, female comedian, because it really blown her off, it
8:54
would have blown her away, we would have had a ball. So on a
8:58
certain level, I'm like Grandma Shirley. I hope that your spirit
9:02
has the opportunity to watch that show somehow. Love you. But
9:08
that's, you know, that's she shaped, you know, she shaped a
9:11
lot of how I viewed myself in the world. And she inspires me
9:19
now to continuous continuously voraciously, heal wounds, change
9:26
the story and the pattern and do my work to pass on.
9:30
Lori Saitz: Yeah, it's so interesting that you recognize
9:34
the qualities that she why she was give empowering you in the
9:39
way or disempowering you in the way that she was, and that you
9:43
don't find fault with her for doing that because of course,
9:45
that was where she came from. That's what she knew. And she
9:50
was doing it out of love. Now, but at the same time, now you
9:56
recognize the work that you need to do or have done, tell me more
9:59
about that. The work that you have done to get to the place
10:02
where you are now.
10:03
Jess Lilly: Yeah, I that. It's so amazing. You just asked that
10:07
question because the the thing that was on my mind when you
10:10
were speaking was just what a huge, huge transformational gift
10:16
coaching has been for me. So loved my therapeutic journey. So
10:21
I'll kind of backup. So I, you know, I'm very lucky, I was
10:25
raised in a home a Jewish Home where therapy was not. It wasn't
10:31
seen as something bad or wrong or something. You know, it was
10:34
it was,
10:34
Lori Saitz: yeah, it was perfectly fine. Except perfectly
10:37
fine. perfectly.
10:40
Jess Lilly: fine, it's fine. Well, actually, it was accepted.
10:45
And it's funny that you call it fine, because it was fine. So
10:48
therapy for me was fine. I did a ton of work around my, like, I
10:55
had really low self esteem. And, you know, I had a lot of
10:59
symptoms of depression and anxiety. Some of it was very
11:02
much like, you know, biological things, some of it was
11:06
circumstantial. But what happened was, you know, in my
11:11
20s, I hit a wall with therapy where I was like, I'm pretty
11:16
sure I can be more alive than I currently am. And I've been in a
11:19
lot, I favor a lot of therapy. I've been like 10 years of
11:22
therapy. And I think that I can be more alive and vital and full
11:26
of joy than I currently am. And I'm in this loop of believing
11:31
that my depression and my exam anxiety are who I am, and that
11:35
they are my limiting factors. And that's when I really I just
11:40
am super. The timing was very serendipitous that I was
11:44
introduced to certain role models were all coaches,
11:47
including the coach that I ended up hiring this awesome coach
11:50
Laura Westman, look her up. She's great. Still, my coach,
11:54
um, I met her and I was introduced to the conversation
11:59
around coaching, which is about Hey, yes, address your mental
12:05
health stuff, for sure. Hey, yeah, totally heal your trauma,
12:08
do all that stuff. And there's another conversation that you
12:11
can be in about your greatness and your purpose on the planet,
12:16
and taking action to get what you want. And taking your power
12:19
back from the crap that you've given your power away to, you
12:23
have more power than you think. And of course, when I first met
12:27
this person, I was in such a victim mentality, I was felt
12:30
very sorry for myself, I felt super trapped by depression. And
12:35
these limiting stories about myself and what I'm capable of,
12:39
given what I'm like, air quotes. And so I started this coaching
12:47
journey. And one of the really cool aspects of coaching is that
12:51
you learn through really cool conversations and really special
12:57
relationships, you learn how to not take your stuff or other
13:01
people's stuff personally. Like, I'm able to really look and say,
13:06
Hey, who I truly am, I am authenticity and joy, I am
13:12
empathy, love, I'm all these qualities and these gifts and
13:16
these ways of being. And I'm a human being. So I have a
13:22
survival mechanism, I have these automatic fear based ways of
13:25
moving around the world to protect myself. And those things
13:29
are not who I am. Those are the things I do to stay safe when
13:33
I'm threatened or insecure or whatever. And so the more that I
13:37
worked on my own seeing my own stuff that way and more
13:41
identifying with my, what I would call it your essence,
13:45
which is kind of the language we use in our the coach training
13:48
program, accomplishment coaching that I'm involved with, you
13:51
know, the more I saw myself as my essence and less identified
13:55
with my fear, I was able to also offer that to other people. And
14:00
so huge when it comes to, especially with family
14:03
relationships, because, you know, family relationships, have
14:06
those that special way of getting under your skin like
14:09
other people can't, you know,
14:10
Lori Saitz: right, right. They know what buttons to push
14:13
Jess Lilly: buttons. Yeah, total. Yeah, it's total freedom
14:16
to be able to say, oh, that actually wasn't about me. I
14:19
stepped in something with this person. That's because they were
14:23
really scared by whatever was going on between us. And it's
14:27
not about my worthiness. It's not about whether or not they
14:33
love me, it's about where they are and what they're
14:37
experiencing. And that's okay.
14:40
Lori Saitz: Yeah, I love that. You just made the distinction
14:42
between coaching and therapy for why I'm passionate about that.
14:48
Yeah, yeah. And they both have a place and but it's a different
14:53
place, and they're gonna help you accomplish different things.
14:56
And yeah, they're like two different cars. on a road, so
15:01
Jess Lilly: they're like two cars on the road. And just to
15:03
give you an example, because people often, you know, there's
15:08
a lot of nuance there. And so something I'm really passionate
15:10
about is educating people about what the distinctions are, even
15:14
when there's nuance. And one of the things that I did with my
15:18
coach in the past few years as I, I rehired her to say, hey,
15:23
what we're going to work on together, is my relationship to
15:26
my depression and my mental health. We can't address the
15:30
depression together, because I'm going to go do that in therapy.
15:33
I'm going to go do that over here where with a licensed
15:36
healing professional, but what you and I are going to do is
15:39
we're going to look at what's what's my vision for myself, and
15:43
how do I incorporate and integrate this reality, which is
15:48
I experienced depression. I am not unique. That is
15:52
Lori Saitz: a very Yeah, exactly. And I again, the way
15:56
you just phrase that is I experience it, it's not who you
16:00
are. It's it doesn't define you. It's just something that you
16:07
experience, like, anything else we experience. Absolutely. Yeah.
16:15
Before we got on this call, one of our conversations of the many
16:20
conversations we've had previous, we were talking about
16:24
people wanting the thing, whatever the thing is, but not
16:29
wanting to, but not wanting the pain that goes with it. Yep. And
16:37
that they think that they're you had said that they think there's
16:40
a version of life where there's no pain?
16:43
Jess Lilly: Mm hmm. Gosh, and don't we all just fall into that
16:48
trap. I don't want to speak for the universal way. But I'll
16:51
speak for myself that, you know, there are some times when, you
16:56
know, I've chosen a very rigorous transformational path,
17:01
or I'm, you know, I'm on a leadership team in a coach
17:03
training program. So I'm always being challenged at this really
17:07
high level of rigor, you know, I do a lot of therapy, I do a lot
17:10
of, I just do a lot of work. And there are times where I I really
17:16
think to myself, like especially when when I'm right up against
17:19
my next breakthrough, or I'm really outside my comfort zone
17:23
and doing stuff that is super confronting to me, I think to
17:26
myself. Wait, isn't there like a, like, why did I decide to do
17:31
this? Like, like, wait,
17:33
Lori Saitz: leave the easy button? Where's the Wait, can
17:36
Jess Lilly: we go by too easy and and just, you know, time and
17:39
time again, I always remember that the thing that I thought
17:42
was the easy way was shrinking my life, because I was always
17:47
trying to just avoid pain. And I was shrinking my life and trying
17:51
to, you know, remove any kinds of, you know, stimulus or
17:59
responsibilities, commitments, relationships, that would cause
18:02
me to experience pain, instead of the path of expanding my
18:09
capacity to be with pain, expanding my capacity to trust
18:14
my inner strength and trust my support systems that I haven't
18:18
placed to just to persevere in the face of it. And but I still
18:23
have those moments. And my clients have those moments. And
18:25
my peers in my in the coach training world have those
18:28
moments of like, Ah, wait, isn't there like a world where I'm
18:33
sitting on a beach drinking a, like virgin pina colada? And
18:37
like, nothing's ever wrong. And I have all the money in the
18:40
bank, and there are no problems ever. Yes. Where's
18:43
Lori Saitz: that version? Well, it just reminded me of two
18:45
things because I remember having a coach who would say that
18:49
there's always a breakdown before breakthrough. Like
18:54
whenever you're losing your mind like that is indicative of a
18:58
breakthrough This is coming. And the other thing I remember
19:02
hearing from some a different coach was that don't something
19:06
about don't wish for the problem to be smaller wish that you grow
19:12
enough to be bigger than the problem.
19:16
Jess Lilly: Delicious. Those are two very delicious coachy things
19:20
that you that I remember. So into those, I mean, and I love
19:25
them, as you know. I think that the cool thing about surrounding
19:34
yourself with coaching people and just a coaching conversation
19:37
in general, whether or not you even hire a coach, like if you
19:40
just surround surround yourself with people who are kind of into
19:43
it, and are growth minded and dig personal development and
19:47
transformation, you end up in a situation where you fall in love
19:51
with breakdowns and you fall in love with the process because if
19:55
you experience it enough times, overtly and on purpose, then You
20:00
start to get that like, Oh, I am in the worst shit right now. But
20:04
I know that means I'm close to something. And I know that I
20:07
have six or seven or eight or nine people in my life that I
20:10
can turn to like Lori, I have no doubt. I could call you up and
20:14
say, Lori, I'm at the bottom of the well, I feel like absolute
20:18
shit. I have no idea why I chose to do any of this. Please remind
20:22
me, and you would be a partner to me in holding the vision and
20:27
being like, No, just remember, we talked about it on my
20:29
podcast.
20:30
Lori Saitz: Right?
20:31
Right. Right breakthroughs. You're so close.
20:34
And this is exactly why people need coaches, and why people
20:38
come into like, the my fuck being fine experience is for
20:43
that courage. Not that you couldn't necessarily find it on
20:47
your own, but it's not likely that well, and
20:51
Jess Lilly: we're so you know, there's this. I'm really
20:55
grateful that part of my work on the planet is to remind people
21:02
that we actually aren't meant to do things alone. Like, we're
21:05
kind of, you know, our culture is very hyper individualistic.
21:08
And this idea of like, I'm going to muscle through make enough
21:11
money. You know, whatever. I'm going to say here myself, I'm
21:15
gonna just take a million baths and get 100 massages and I'm
21:19
just gonna be, I'm gonna be great. It's gonna be good.
21:21
Lori Saitz: I'll be I'll be fine. I'll be fine.
21:24
Jess Lilly: I'll be fine. But there's this, the power of
21:29
coaching and believing deeply in that we are meant to be
21:33
interconnected, not codependent, not dependent but
21:36
interconnected. And rely and depend on one another from from
21:42
choice and from love and equality and partnership, is
21:46
that it we allow so much more expansiveness into our lives.
21:55
Like it's, there's a humility, that comes from saying, I need
22:00
partnership in my life, because I'm a human being and life is
22:02
better that way. And there's just such a missed opportunity
22:06
to go into your silo, you know, when people are like, you know
22:11
what, I'm going to just for another couple years, I'm going
22:15
to do it on my own and just like, see what I could do on my
22:17
own, there's nothing wrong with that at all. And the thing that
22:23
breaks my heart in it, is, there's so much stuff that
22:27
you're not able to see with your two eyes alone, right? with
22:32
someone else in the conversation with you, you're just going to
22:34
see so many more possibilities, you're going to be able to go
22:38
past where you would normally stop alone. Because the place
22:41
where we stop when we're alone is way earlier than replace you
22:49
stop when your hand in hand with someone or locked arms in
22:53
partnership.
22:54
Lori Saitz: Yeah, exactly. Because you're pulling each
22:56
other. And think about it when you go go and do anything like
23:01
let's say, Go on, on vacation, and then you go somewhere with
23:05
other people. And they see things differently, like, Oh,
23:10
look at that, where you weren't focused, you weren't looking in
23:13
that direction. You were looking over here, and they're like, oh,
23:15
look over there. And you share all of that experience with each
23:20
other. It's the same, same concept. It's so much more
23:25
exciting that when you're when you're going somewhere cool that
23:29
you go with someone or several others to share the experience,
23:34
right?
23:35
Jess Lilly: Yes. And I love the the posture of how you shared
23:38
that is just this like, empowered choice to bring more
23:42
richness into your life rather than like, Oh, I have to be with
23:45
people. And Lori, this is I love that we're going in this
23:49
direction together. Because I also wanted to share with you
23:52
that I recently I started dating someone, I have a boyfriend,
23:57
right, and I have a boyfriend, I have an actual boyfriend. It's
24:01
so great. It's the same as graduations. Thank you. And it's
24:05
so funny that we're talking about partnership because I have
24:08
spent, you know, x years. So I had my fine, right like I
24:13
created my fine. It wasn't that fine. It was a four letter word.
24:17
It usually never is. No, it isn't. Lori, I created a fine,
24:21
that was fine. And then I broke free of the fine. And I've been
24:25
on this like messy, like a healing journey very much on my
24:31
own, which it had to be on my own. A lot of the stuff that I
24:34
did over the years just had to be on my own because a lot of it
24:37
had to do with just me and my relationship with myself and
24:40
that whatever we can go into it. It was delicious. But you know,
24:44
painful, delicious, great. And it's so fun to be at a place
24:49
where I now because I feel really solid in all of that
24:55
piece. I'm like, Oh, now I get to do it with a partner. Like
25:00
We're gonna have so much Ben. And that's such a different
25:04
place than, you know, 567 years ago where I would have been
25:07
like, ah, I hate being alone. Why can I you know, right? I am
25:14
not the only person on the planet who has that experience,
25:17
you know,
25:18
Lori Saitz: not at all. There's, there's a whole world of people
25:20
having that experience. But now you get to come to this
25:24
partnership as a whole person, as opposed to someone who is
25:28
depending on like, grandma Shirley was telling you to do,
25:32
depending on the guy.
25:34
Jess Lilly: And you know, my grandmother, I she was so she
25:42
was so sad that when, you know, when she died, that I was
25:44
single, she really, really did think that it meant that I was
25:47
like, doomed to be sad for the rest of my life. She really was
25:50
worried about me. But you know, she, I think she would be really
25:54
proud of how conscientious I've been in filling up my own cup
26:01
and doing this healing work and doing all this building my
26:05
business. Yeah, no doubt she would. Yeah, she totally would.
26:09
And I that gives me a little. I'm getting a little emotional
26:13
about that. That's so lovely. mclamb she climbed, so I have no
26:18
doubt that she also would like this. This David character.
26:21
Lori Saitz: How do you know she didn't direct Him into your
26:23
life?
26:24
Jess Lilly: Lori, I love you. And I love you even more. I
26:29
already loved you. And now you went ahead and made it even more
26:33
beautiful. I? Yeah, thank you very much. What I meant to say
26:38
was, thank you very much early. She was like, okay, she's ready.
26:43
That whole time. That was all a charade from fear. But deep
26:47
down, I was waiting to send you this particular man. Yeah, sure.
26:53
She's She's magical like that. I think that's a fair point.
26:56
Lori Saitz: That's probably what happened.
26:58
Jess Lilly: That's probably what happened.
26:59
Lori Saitz: Yeah. So now you're choosing to using this as an
27:06
example, you're choosing from a place of making decisions from a
27:11
place of strength, as opposed to a place of fear? Yes. Or
27:17
desperation?
27:18
Jess Lilly: Yep. And I think that one of the signals to me
27:23
that, um, I am really grounded in that place of strength, is
27:31
when I hear I used to get so pissed when people said that
27:35
thing of, you have to love yourself before you can love
27:38
anybody else. I used to lose it. I used to be like, what I say to
27:43
my face, say it to my face, like I just I don't know what to say
27:47
to my face. I just for whatever reason, I felt really like,
27:51
Look, that was like an attack. I was like, Look, stop. And so I
27:56
think that the, you know where I'm at right now. And look, I'm
28:00
sure I'm gonna have bumps along the way and backslide and do all
28:05
sorts of minor things. But I really, that doesn't. That
28:11
concept doesn't irritate me. Anyway, it doesn't trigger you.
28:15
It doesn't trigger me and I also am able to see the both and have
28:20
like, Yeah, it does, you know, in order to be in a healthy
28:22
partnership where there's like, adult love, adult fully mature,
28:29
empowered love. You do need to love yourself and nourish
28:33
yourself and fill yourself up. Sure that is those go hand in
28:36
hand. And there's no like right way to be to be in love with
28:40
something like you know, to have a party, you know, there's no
28:42
right or wrong. There's no destination you have to get to
28:45
before you can be experiencing love and giving love. You know,
28:49
I always felt very dismissed by that by that phrase that like,
28:55
Oh, I haven't loved anyone because my self love game is not
28:58
super hot.
28:59
Lori Saitz: Right? In which case you become the victim again,
29:02
correct? Oh, no. Oh, When am I going to be? When am I When am I
29:07
going to be enough? When am I going to have done enough work?
29:11
When am I going to be like yeah, um, no, isn't that I'm not good
29:15
enough yet.
29:16
Jess Lilly: Yes. I love that. You said that. Because I think
29:19
the people, you know, yes, you can go into coaching or therapy
29:24
or you know, 12 step work or whatever, you can go into any
29:28
work and still use it against yourself. Like, you know, you
29:33
can you know, our fear brains are super wily and sneaky. And
29:37
we can take pretty much anything and use it just for the same old
29:41
bullshit. Like we can create a whole new status quo, which is,
29:46
you know, and that's why I really respect the coaches that
29:49
I work with. I really respect them because they will fire a
29:53
client. They will say you're, I see how you're using this and
29:57
you're using it to recreate all this bullshit, and I'm not doing
30:02
that. And sometimes that's the wake up call for someone. Right?
30:07
Like, I've had to say, I've had to say to clients like, Hey, who
30:12
are you making? Like, who am I to you? Like, what are you using
30:15
me for in this game? Because, you know, they might be too
30:21
scared or unwilling or whatever, for whatever reason, they're not
30:27
willing to actually open themselves up to the work
30:30
necessary. So they're, they're still playing some games around
30:33
things. Right. And I have to sometimes bring a lot of like,
30:37
radical, rigorous, tough directness around that, so that
30:44
I don't become yet another person that buys into their
30:47
bullshit.
30:48
Lori Saitz: Right? Right, that you right, that you're helping
30:52
them become something better than when I don't know better
30:57
than that you're helping them become a better version of
31:01
themselves? Well, you know, rather than continuing to tell
31:04
themselves the whole old story that keeps them small and
31:08
victimized.
31:09
Jess Lilly: Yeah. And actually, Lori, I love that you hesitated
31:12
around using the words better than because I actually, I vote
31:16
to not use that language. Because it's not that one way of
31:21
being or looking at the world is better than another. It's just
31:25
if you have a vision for your life, that is XYZ. You actually
31:31
have to align who you're being and what you're doing to that in
31:34
order to get that result. So right. So it's not about being
31:39
better a better person. It's about Hey, like, for example,
31:42
just use myself because I'm, whatever I can speak from
31:46
Olympics,
31:47
Lori Saitz: were the best examples. Yeah, we are. I mean,
31:50
really are that's why coaching to speak. I mean, speaking from
31:52
your own experience, that's all you that's all anybody can do is
31:56
their own experience.
31:57
Jess Lilly: Hallelujah. And I love that because, you know,
32:00
sometimes people get up and they talk about how things are, and
32:03
I'm the expert. And coaches are always coming from not knowing,
32:07
because that's our job is to not know and be curious and to ask.
32:10
So yeah, the thing I do know about is my own lived
32:12
experience. And in my, in the example for me, like, you know,
32:20
I could have repeated the same exact relationship patterns over
32:25
and over and over again for the rest of my life. And there's
32:27
actually nothing wrong with that, what I have experienced
32:30
pain, sure, but I'm going to experience pain and this other
32:33
thing, too, would, you know, so there's nothing actually wrong
32:37
with it. However, the fact that I have a commitment to myself,
32:43
and a vision, to have a life partner and to have children and
32:46
to do all that cool stuff. That old way of looking at things and
32:53
behaving and choosing is not going to cut it, to bring that
32:58
forth. And it's delusional to think that I can keep doing that
33:01
same old stuff, and and then somehow get to my vision. So if
33:05
I really, if I told you, Lori, hey, my vision is actually I
33:08
want to be alone. I want to just, you know, stay
33:12
comfortable. I want to be surrounded by people who are
33:15
okay with my bullshit and will let me you know, they'll let me
33:20
slide every, you know, they'll, they'll, every time, they'll
33:23
accommodate my codependency, they'll accommodate my low self
33:26
esteem, they'll accommodate all that shit. I could have done
33:30
that. And you know what, maybe I would have had a good time,
33:32
really, who knows, I would have had some good times and bad
33:34
times, who knows. But what I just chose to do is say
33:38
Actually, I want to achieve that experience of myself that is
33:47
fully tapping into my potential, fully embracing my authentic
33:53
self, my sensitivity, my, my calling my in my purpose, and
33:59
create a life that is scary to me. Like, I want to create a
34:04
vision that actually scares the shit out of me. And I'm going to
34:07
have to be really brave to continue to choose it over and
34:11
over again. And it's juicy and painful and joyful and
34:16
fulfilling. Still pain to go back to our other or other
34:21
conversation. But But if you and I really landing on this whole,
34:27
there's actually not one better. There's not one better way to
34:31
live and something else right. Is that means a lot to me. I
34:35
think that's important.
34:36
Lori Saitz: Yeah, I love that you are challenging yourself, to
34:41
be the person you need to be to get to that vision that you want
34:46
to get to. Yeah, and that is a great place to end our
34:50
conversation but not completely end it because what the question
34:54
that always comes next, what is your hype song? What's the song
34:58
you listen to and you need to get charged up? And enthused,
35:02
and infused with energy.
35:05
Jess Lilly: Let me clear my throat. Da Na Na. That's how it
35:09
goes. It's DJ cool. It's Let me clear my throat. It's amazing.
35:13
It's from 1998. Maybe it's from before that, and I just was
35:16
introduced to it in 1998. It makes me so happy and all of I'm
35:22
going to send this podcast to my childhood friends, and they're
35:25
going to get a kick out of that, that I chose that song.
35:27
Lori Saitz: Awesome. All right, well, so if somebody is not your
35:31
childhood friend, and they want to know how to get in touch with
35:34
you, I want someone do that.
35:38
Jess Lilly: You can visit Jess Lilly Coaching dot com. And
35:41
there is a contact form. Please fill that out. And I offer 45
35:47
minute complimentary discovery sessions for folks who want to
35:50
give coaching a world it is totally, you know, I'm really
35:54
committed to people understanding the differences,
35:56
like I said before, the differences between therapy,
35:59
coaching and consulting. And so yeah, hop on there, reach out
36:03
and I'll get in touch with you.
36:06
Lori Saitz: Excellent. We'll put a link in the show notes for
36:08
that. So we'll make it really easy for people to be able to
36:11
find you and also a link to your song. So they can Yeah, dance
36:16
the way you you do or dance in their own style, I guess.
36:21
Probably not likely.
36:23
Jess Lilly: Well, Lori, next time, I would have to do the
36:25
dance so they could see really the full picture of what happens
36:29
when I listen to that song. Yes.
36:31
Lori Saitz: Okay, well, maybe we'll put a picture of that in
36:33
the promo video right now, but yeah. Okay. Jess, thank you so
36:40
much for joining me today on Fine is a 4-Letter Word.
36:44
Jess Lilly: Thank you, Lori. It was fun.