Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #94: Making the Shift...How a $3 Billion Dollar Originator Goes from Old School to Modern Marketer

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Ep #94: Making the Shift...How a $3 Billion Dollar Originator Goes from Old School to Modern Marketer · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
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1:17
Hey listeners, Jeff Zimfer, welcome to yet another episode of mortgage marketing radio.
1:41
We are fast approaching episode 100.
1:45
You have anybody in mind you'd like me to feature on the podcast, I'm all ears.
1:50
You know, you can email me anytime podcast at mortgagemarketingradio.com.
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If you've got any suggestions for content topics, you can also jump into our Facebook group,
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So okay, this week we are talking about how a $3 billion originator makes the switch,
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the switch from old school, the modern marketer.
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That's right.
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Many of you listening to this might consider yourself old school.
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The average age of an originator is what, about 52 years old.
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So for some of us, myself included, we've got to learn some new things, some new ways to
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communicate, to engage and reach out and market and build our brand.
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And my special guest today fits that bill perfectly because not only is he's just one heck
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of an individual, a great all-around human being, but also he's a phenomenal producer and
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achiever, 28 years of industry experience, over 3 billion enclosed loans, consistently
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ranked in the top 100 originators in the country for the last 19 years out of 300,000.
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That is consistent performance.
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Who am I speaking of?
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I'm speaking of none other than David Jaffee out of West Lake Village in Oxnard, California.
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And we are going to dive into really the fundamental, the basics, the foundational activity
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of these disciplines that David has put into place for, as we said, over 28 years, but
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he's also found himself recently needing to pivot and shift because let's face it, people
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aren't necessarily buying as many houses as they once were.
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You know, 65% of his business last year was database, but you'll hear David talk about
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how that source, while it's still very profitable and should be pursued and optimized, he's
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finding that he needs to diversify a bit.
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So, we're going to talk about how he does past client reviews and any reviews and things
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like that and kind of what his daily method of operation is, you know, the daily structurally
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has to his activities in terms of calls and meetings and so forth, dealing with rate
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shoppers, we're going to discuss going consumer direct, we're going to talk about how he's
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using video in an incredible way, getting video testimonials from his clients and teaming
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up with referral partners and just really the whole conversation around pivoting, how he's
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using video and his marketing to differentiate himself.
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And of course, what you'll hear from David is his discipline and focus that he's got as
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David likes to say, keep doing things right and business comes in the door and doing the
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right thing is always the right thing.
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So before I bring on my special guest, remember if you're just pruning in now and you haven't
5:25
yet checked out the mortgage marketing pro membership, that's for you listeners who want
5:31
to go to the next level, who want to get more efficient and effective with your referral
5:37
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If you want to get better at your process, your process, you're scripting, your conversion,
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your visual value and if you want to be able to build your brand online and pivot like
5:59
David has to become a digital marketer, become a modern originator, we'll check out mortgage
6:04
marketing.pro, I'll be links in the show notes, but that's where you can find it for more
6:08
info there.
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And with that said, let's get into this week's show with my special guest, David Jaffe.
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Hey David, welcome to the show.
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Well, thanks for having me, Jaffe, I appreciate it.
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It is an honor, my friend, sir, I dare say, sir, I feel like I'm addressing you as
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like some kind of royalty in the mortgage space.
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Well, I'm going to train you properly, Jaffe.
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So I'm not, you know, blowing smoke just because you're a guest, it's because, man, I
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just remember back when I started as an originator back in 2003, you know, we all look for role
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models out there, right?
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Well, look for, hey, who's doing some, man, you used to come on my radar all the time
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of like, you know, David Jaffe up in LA, he's doing some amazing things.
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I mean, 25 years, over 3 billion in residential mortgages, so you've done a loan or two,
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huh?
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Yeah, I've done a couple, we try to do as many as we can.
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That is awesome.
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So I usually, let's open it up with this, people heard the kind of the formal introduction,
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but let me ask it this way, you've been in the business now 25 plus years, 28, is that
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right?
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Correct.
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28 years.
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Why?
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And what keeps you going today?
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This is really a great business because you have the ability to be the master of your
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world in a 100% commission world.
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There's no excuses.
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You either deliver or you don't deliver.
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You can be your own boss, but obviously in the mortgage business, mostly working under
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someone's umbrella, especially in the last 10 years, but you run your own business.
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And I've always wanted to be in charge of my own world.
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And this business has really enabled me to do that.
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Hmm.
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So I appreciate you sharing that, by the way.
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What about, then you're a unique individual, I can see, you know, you're into physical
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challenges and stuff.
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You just check something off your bucket list, you hiked Mount Whitney, correct?
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Correct.
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Yep.
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What's the elevation on that?
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14,500 feet.
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Was it taking you like two hours to get that done?
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I wish.
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I wish.
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12 hours run trip.
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12 hours run trip.
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And it was a lot of fun and something I had to cross off the bucket list before I get
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too old.
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Well, it seems like, you know, so to connect this together, straight commission, it takes
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it to me.
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You know, it takes a certain DNA, would you agree for somebody to be in a straight commission
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position?
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Without a doubt, and it's interesting, I look back and so many people I know, in fact,
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you know, the majority of America, they're working on, you know, a salary basis or an
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hourly basis, and they're working, you know, for a company.
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And when I first started commission only 20 years ago, I was kind of freaking out, but
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it was definitely easier for me because I was living in home with my parents.
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So I had a much better safety net than the majority of people that start in this business.
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But I remember thinking about 15 or 20 years ago, I would actually feel uncomfortable
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working for a company with a salary and more comfortable on commission only because I
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feel like I can control more of my destiny that way.
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So are you a control freak?
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Yeah, I may have been accused of that a couple of times.
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Spending an hour in my office, you make it some verification of that.
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Well, I'm sure that that served you, I guess it's a double-edged sword, but to one side
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of the sword, it served you in building, I mean, 28 years, clearly you've done something
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right.
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Yeah, it definitely is a catch 22 on one and it makes you drive to succeed and do good
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and makes sure you have total control.
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But on the flip side, it also holds you back being a control freak.
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I hired coaching about 16 or 17 years ago, which really enabled me to step away from the
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control freak part and really work on the delegation, and that's where my business really
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exploded.
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And then after the business exploded, it then enabled me to be able to work less but
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still maintain a good volume level.
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What were some of the things you initially delegated?
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You know, one of the greatest things I learned at some conference was, I was told to put
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a list on my desk and every time I did something, I would write down on a piece of paper, everything
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I did.
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And I did that for three days and I had a long list and then I went back to that list
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and I said, what are the things that I don't need to do and everything I didn't need to
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do.
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I moved to the right side of the column and that was my first assistant.
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So that was things like getting my postcards together for mailing, calling for conditions,
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just all the minutia that we do in the lending world.
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So that first assistant was not so much a LOA, you know, doing paperwork process related
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things but more so like marketing and those types of like non-high pay off at tasks.
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Correct.
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It was mostly clerical marketing, there was no selling part of it at all.
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It was simply just doing the clerical stuff to take those things off my desk and I probably
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had that person in that role.
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I think I probably got my first assistant maybe three or four years in and I probably
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didn't bring on someone super skilled until I was in the business for a good 14, 15
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years.
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Wow.
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How many, when you brought on that marketing assistant, the clerical stuff, how many units
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roughly were you doing then?
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Let's see, I was doing 30 million and my average loan was 160.
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So what was that, probably about 100, maybe close to 200 units.
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Wow.
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So I asked, yeah, I was definitely understaffed, that's for sure, for a long time.
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Were you working mega hours managing that?
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I was working a lot of hours, I was single, living alone and all I did was work and go
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at my friends.
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It was one of those two things, there was nothing else.
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Yeah, it's interesting to unpack that a little bit because there's two stories there.
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And the one story is, it's, I guess I'm partly curious why you didn't ask for help sooner
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or get help sooner.
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I didn't understand that I needed help and I also think a part of it was thinking, this
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can't continue.
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What if my business drops and now I've got an employee that I've got to support?
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And I think I see that with a lot of people on the mortgage side as well as realtors,
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they don't want a higher person because they don't know if they're always going to need
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them.
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But what I found is when I did hire somebody, I was almost always able to keep the volume
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up, to keep them and keep them employed.
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And to go to the next level, you really do need to take things off your plate so that
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you can do things in your gifted zone.
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Do things what in your gifted zone?
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In your gifted zone, correct.
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What would you say your gifted zone is?
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My gifted zone has definitely changed probably in the last 10 years.
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But my gifted zone, when I was doing the biggest growth of my business, probably the first
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15 to 18 years, was just going out and knocking on doors.
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I was incredibly consistent.
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I was persistently consistent and consistently persistent.
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I never, I never missed a marketing of the task that I had on my business plan.
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If I had phone calls to make to call realtors, I would never miss those phone calls.
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I would go to open houses every Sunday.
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It would be such a bummer having to leave, you know, this is my single days.
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My friends would rent a beach house and I'd be able to go for a couple of hours and that
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I'd have to go leave and go to work on Sundays.
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But I was incredibly disciplined and focused and that was my gifted zone for sure.
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Wow.
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That's man.
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There's so much right here just to talk about, um, disciplined and focused.
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I see this nice, you know, I get a broad section of exposure to loan officers at various
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levels of experience, you know, there's someone like you, right, long term veteran, um,
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understands kind of the, if you will, the fundamental blocking and tackling it takes to succeed
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with real, then there's the newbies who come in, if you will, you know, last three, five
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years, whatever.
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And it, I don't know, and forgive me for anybody listening and there's nothing personal
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here.
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But sometimes I'm seeing a lack of the work ethic on that discipline, like you said,
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right?
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I mean, who's got that level of commitment to break away from the beach house on Sunday?
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Yeah, you know, a lot of people, they want to do the get rich quick scheme.
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And I've always said in this business, it's the get rich slowly way of doing it and even
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to this day, 28 years in, you know, our business ebbs and flows and we go through slow times
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and even after all these years, I find it incredibly frustrating to be slow.
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But I keep telling myself, keep doing things right and the business will come in the door
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as it always has.
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And so by getting rich slowly, it was putting a plan in place and being sure that you
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fall about plan and never, never not do what you're supposed to do.
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And I agree.
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Look, there's all kinds of coaching saying, you know, you want to have a balanced life,
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you don't want to take phone calls on evenings and weekends, you don't want to work more
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than 40 hours a week.
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Well, you know, it took me probably, I don't know, 20 years to get there.
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But I would say the first 20 years, I took calls in the evenings and the weekends and I
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was working six hours a week, sometimes 70 hours a week.
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Because all I cared about, all I would, I would just eat, breathe, sleep, growing my
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business that's all I ever thought about.
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What about you?
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What in your, your history, your background upbringing, whatever has, has played a role
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in making you so driven?
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That's a really good question.
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Now, are you going to start charging me an hourly fee for my psychologist?
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Yes.
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Are you on the couch?
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I don't know.
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I think that just from being younger, maybe, you know, junior high, whatever, I never
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feel like I had succeeded in a lot.
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It wasn't until I started playing sports at high school that I really felt that feeling
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of success.
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And man, I'd love that feeling.
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What was your score?
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That was awesome.
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I played water polo.
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Oh, well, that enough said, that explains it.
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You're all crazy.
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And let's be clear, I wasn't good, but my team was good and successful.
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Had it not been for them?
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Well, I would have been the same boat.
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So, but I love that feeling of succeeding, and I got to tell you, my call drew me just
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to always make fun of me because I would sit there and go, I'm going to be number one
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one there.
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I'm going to be number one.
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And, and then, you know, 20 years later, they're like, oh gosh, Jeffy, we didn't believe
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you.
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So I just, I've always had that drive.
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I don't know why.
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Well, actually, there's a lesson in there as well.
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It's like, you know, it's all about, you've heard the old saying, we become the average
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of the five people we spend the most time around.
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Yep.
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So that's true today in terms of team and, you know, getting around environments for
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coaching and what's your office culture like and things like that.
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So that team seems like, even though you weren't necessarily the highest skilled athlete,
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you were, the team was kind of pulling you up, you know what I'm saying?
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Oh, without a doubt.
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Without a doubt.
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I mean, well, you know, last place would have probably been where we were.
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Yeah.
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But listen, I mean, water polo man and that culture is crazy.
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You guys, the stuff that goes on, like underneath the wall, it's like football and water, you
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know, each other up, punching people, it's crazy.
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Maybe that's why my career ended after my freshman year in college.
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Oh, that's funny.
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That's funny.
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All right.
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Interesting.
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Okay.
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I want to go back to the, what you talked about with the high volume, you were doing high
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volume.
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Let's just call it 10 units a month for quite a while.
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How are we able to manage that?
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And I say that in the context of this and I don't know if you're, you get exposed to this.
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You know, I get, I get a lot of L.O.'s who are like, you know, man, I met four units
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a month.
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I mean, an assistant.
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How are you able to manage all that volume units?
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You know what?
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It's funny.
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You just do it.
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I mean, I'm doing much less units, you know, this year that I've had in some of my top
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years.
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And, and it's funny, I am definitely working less, but maybe not that much less.
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It's funny.
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You just find a way to do it.
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But without a doubt, discipline and time focus.
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So probably, I don't know, 20 years ago, I started getting up at five in the morning and
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I would be at my desk at six.
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So from six to eight thirty and that two and a half hours, you can do an eight hour work
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day in two and a half hours when there's no phone, no email, no text.
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Another way to do it, I always, to this day still, I plan my day every night before the
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next day.
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I look and see what's on my calendar.
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I see what's important.
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And then I rank those most important things that I have to do first.
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Time blocking.
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Time blocking.
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Yep.
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And it's hard, especially now with texting an email, man, it's, I have to actually shut
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my email off because my ADD just goes out of control.
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What about, there's the constant debate that goes on, you know, with time blocking.
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And when do you break that time block you have with yourself?
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A lot of people are like, well, if I get a call from an agent, I have to take it.
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I don't know, that's maybe a personal philosophy.
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What's yours around that?
20:16
Well, I never do more than a 60 minute time block, no one, if it's super urgent,
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never has to be more than an hour.
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And sometimes I'll only do 30 minute time blocks because I've done all these studies.
20:28
And everybody says there's great multitaskers, but there's not a single study out there
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that says multitasking works.
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Brain doesn't work that way.
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So every time you stop doing something, you know, you can lose, you know, 10 minutes
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trying to get that to where you were.
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Sure. And I still struggle with time blocking this day.
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It's hard. And that's why to me, the early morning is just, it's crucial.
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I mean, I'll do all my loan setups, all my marketing, anything I have to write.
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I'll do before eight, three in the morning, because once the phone rings, I'm done.
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Yeah, it's just chaos then at that point.
20:58
Yeah, I'm interesting, interesting.
21:01
Okay, good.
21:01
Nice lessons in there for time blocking.
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And I agree with you, those studies for, you know, people who think they can multitask.
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You just can't just time block 30 minutes, get that task done.
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And then take a break, take a breather, take a walk and then get back on that
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next time block.
21:15
But I, and also it just while we're on the topic, because I'm sure you've read like
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the one thing and did some studying on that, um, is to, you've got to also
21:24
fill your, you allow time in your calendar for chaos and for randomness, which
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goes, which speaks to your point about get the, get the heavy lifting done early
21:33
in the day, early in the morning, you got that time.
21:36
And then if you're going to make calls, get that done before noon, too.
21:40
Yeah, that's the only way to do it.
21:42
Yeah, it just won't happen if you don't do it that way.
21:44
All right, let's talk about your business, man.
21:48
Got some notes here from our last chat.
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65% of your business last year was passed out of base clients, correct?
21:55
Correct.
21:56
And that's actually be consistent for nearly my whole career.
21:59
Right.
22:00
Okay.
22:01
So, and this is often as, you don't have to have spoken about often a,
22:06
it's one of those things.
22:06
It's like people are stepping over dollars, you know, it still happens today.
22:11
I don't, I've been banging this drum for a long time.
22:13
I made the mistake as well, though early on, you know, just because I was all
22:17
about the hunt and let's just go get deals and move on and whatever.
22:21
You learned early on that the importance of database marketing.
22:24
Why is there some wise Yoda coach you had or something?
22:29
Yeah, when I was brand new in the business, I was probably in it for maybe 90
22:34
days and I went to the old Pratt Duncan seminar.
22:37
Now it's just Todd Duncan and he talked about having a database,
22:42
staying in contact with clients and, you know, creating a constant soon referrals.
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Now, my dad was in the retail business for 35 years.
22:51
So, my dad was a great mentor and that he always taught me, you know, the client
22:55
is always right.
22:56
I remember that as a kid and his business was built on repeat customers.
23:00
And so I had that going in and then I went to this seminar and
23:03
they talked about the database and well, I'll tell you, fortunately, I ran with
23:07
that from my first 90 days in the business.
23:10
I had a database of all my clients and I wasn't looking just to close alone
23:15
and never see those people again.
23:17
I just wanted to build that database and even to this day, I'll have this
23:20
conversation sometimes with clients and I'm trying to reel in alone.
23:24
And I say, look, if I just do one loan for you and I never see again,
23:27
I feel like I'm wasting my time.
23:29
I'm here to do this loan and every loan you ever need again in the future,
23:33
as well as anybody else you know.
23:35
And that's my philosophy for 28 years now.
23:39
And so there's a specific structure for how you stay in touch with,
23:42
stay top of mind with your past database.
23:45
You're talking about that briefly.
23:48
So we used to, in the beginning, we were only doing poorly newsletters.
23:54
And then I went to another conference about a year later and there's a big
23:56
producer back in those days and he was touching his database 15 times a
24:02
year. So I went, wow, so I went back to my office and I instituted 15 touches a
24:07
year. And the next year, my database for furlbus is doubled by going from
24:14
four to 15 contacts because people just do forget you.
24:18
There's too much going on in life.
24:19
But right now, we're actually doing, believe it or 25 contacts a year with our
24:24
database. We just, we just need to buy brain cells constantly.
24:31
And the big difference today versus 20 years ago is social media and
24:37
Facebook and internet.
24:39
You can't log on to the internet without getting some banner ad for, you know,
24:43
lower your rate, you know, to 2% for a 15 year fix.
24:47
I mean, you just can't go online or anywhere without a mortgage
24:50
advertisement. So we have to be even better at buying our clients brain cells.
24:55
So Jeff, do you want me to talk about how we do that?
24:58
Yeah, absolutely. I'm back up.
25:00
Okay. So we do 12 snail males a year and everybody's going, why you use the
25:06
post office email? Yep, we do.
25:08
The reason why is each family has a different decision maker.
25:11
So in my house, I basically do the bills and I get the mail.
25:15
But what if my wife was a decision maker on mortgage?
25:18
She would never see that mail.
25:20
So we have to make sure that we're hitting the family a couple of different
25:23
ways. So the 12 snowmails is made up of four newsletters.
25:28
So once a quarter, yep, and then eight postcards on the eight postcards,
25:34
we call our my who I helped postcards.
25:36
And what I do is I lay out a scenario of what we, a real life solution that
25:42
we've done for clients.
25:43
So the postcard says, who I helped this week, and then I lay out the scenario,
25:49
then I lay out the solution.
25:51
So they're seeing real real things that we do.
25:55
Yeah, I want to unpack that a little bit.
25:57
What does that look like visually?
25:59
Yep.
25:59
So we use a two sided oversight postcard, which is half of an eight and half by
26:04
11 and the reason I'm using a postcard is because frankly,
26:07
maybe 10% of people, if I'm lucky, read it.
26:10
So I don't really care if they read it.
26:11
I just want them to see my name and my face, even if they look at it for an
26:15
instant, they throw it in the trash.
26:17
At least they've seen my name, my face, and I could be toppled mind if
26:20
something comes up.
26:21
So one side is just myself and my business partner.
26:25
And then the other side is the story.
26:27
Okay.
26:28
So this is a story of somebody you've, you've helped.
26:30
Correct.
26:31
Yep.
26:33
And obviously you've got enough of those because, you know, the volume
26:36
to do it every month, you're going to have lots of stories, right?
26:38
Yep.
26:38
And there's always stories, you know, we live those stories.
26:42
And that's then on the flip side of that, that's just basically text story.
26:45
There's no picture of the people or anything.
26:47
Correct.
26:48
And I don't mention names or anything.
26:50
I see.
26:50
Okay.
26:51
All right.
26:51
Good.
26:51
So.
26:51
And the newsletter works the same because when they get
26:54
the newsletter, it's a, it's folded in half.
26:57
And then one side obviously has my name and my, my picture or my phone number.
27:00
Again, if they don't read the newsletter, that's fine.
27:02
It's written the trash, but at least they see it.
27:04
And that's outsourced.
27:04
All I do is I just send an Excel spreadsheet of the database I wanted to go to.
27:09
They take my credit card done.
27:10
It's five minutes.
27:11
I don't have to do anything except write a blurb on the back, which by the way,
27:15
let's talk about that.
27:17
So I got this idea from Timber Heam probably about 15 years ago.
27:22
And on, on the newsletter, there's a section which is on the outside.
27:25
They see, and it says on the home front.
27:28
And I always do a couple paragraphs about what's going on with me personally.
27:32
My life and there's always pictures of my family or things we've done.
27:35
Things that have changed.
27:36
And it's amazing.
27:37
I'll often people call you up.
27:38
It's been two or three years since you talked to them or did a loan for them.
27:42
And they'll say things like, Oh, you went and did this or, or I saw your daughter
27:45
with the college.
27:46
And I, I didn't understand how important that connection was because,
27:50
I was a single guy and it didn't have the family stuff going on.
27:54
But, but now it really is a great connection with the clients because they always call them on it.
28:00
Well, I think the takeaway from that is, is the personal aspect of it.
28:04
It's the personal connection, like speaking of Timber Heam, right?
28:07
One of his catchphrases is connection versus conversion.
28:10
And that's what, that's what's going to, like you said,
28:12
buy brain cells and get people to remember you.
28:14
They're going to be like, Oh, look at Dave, right?
28:16
He's hiking Mount Whitney or whatever.
28:17
That's cool.
28:18
And the idea with your consistency, I think of your, your marketing efforts there to the past
28:24
databases when the time comes, right?
28:26
If they're thinking, Hey, you know, we got a job change.
28:28
We might need to X or, you know, Judy's going to college might need to tap that
28:33
HELOC.
28:34
Yeah, we want to be in the stream of their, of their, their life, right?
28:39
Yeah, without a doubt.
28:41
And, you know, what's really difficult at our business is the competition is crazy.
28:47
We're just going online or opening up a mobile app while the advertisements and then
28:53
you've got the major advertisers like quick and out there and all the other ones.
28:58
And think about the services, right?
29:00
That by our loans, the servicers are our number one competition because they just
29:05
have call centers and they're just constantly calling the database of people that we
29:09
generate it.
29:11
And, and I think that in the industry, we've probably done a better job than the vast
29:15
majority of loan officers of staying in contact with our clients.
29:21
I mean, you know, 25 contacts a year or touches a year.
29:24
And through that whole refinance boom, still 30% of our clients refinance somewhere
29:31
else, 30% that we lost.
29:34
And I'm really good at saying in contact.
29:36
So think about the average loan officer, they probably lost 70 or 80% of their business.
29:41
And so, you know, it's, it's two steps forward, three steps backwards.
29:46
You can't grow your business and keep losing people out of the back end.
29:49
We never want to lose anybody.
29:51
That's a great point.
29:52
And I think you mentioned this at the start, which is it's only going to get
29:55
tougher as these companies get more aggressive and get more embedded into our lives.
30:00
And who knows what Amazon, whatever, you know, I mean, it's just a lot more noise.
30:06
These companies are getting better and better and better.
30:10
Which means we need to get better.
30:12
And and here's, and to your point, by the way, about the personal thing on the back of the newsletter,
30:18
that's what's going to help us win.
30:22
Increase our batting average is that personal connection because there is no personal connection to quick him.
30:28
Correct.
30:29
All right.
30:30
So 12 snail males, which is a combination of four newsletters and then eight postcards.
30:35
Correct.
30:37
And then we do 12 emails.
30:40
And so now they're getting two contacts a month.
30:42
So every two weeks they get something.
30:44
So snail mail email, snail mail email, snail mail email.
30:48
Don't tell me about the email.
30:49
Is that automated?
30:50
What's in it?
30:52
Um, the email will just sort of sometimes be market conditions.
30:56
Sometimes it'll be, you know, a new program came out.
30:59
I had an email.
31:00
I think the subject line said got kids and then it was talking about, you know,
31:05
low down payment first time buyer programs, help your kids get out of the house, things like that.
31:10
Who's, who's writing the email?
31:11
Is that done for you?
31:13
Uh, I was doing most of the writing until about a year ago.
31:17
And then my business partner now is she's doing most of the writing.
31:21
Well, key point there is it's not some templated, useless, corporate stuff that's spit out.
31:27
That's completely void of any human element.
31:31
Right.
31:31
Well, it's funny.
31:32
You bring that up because we get all these advertisements from, you know, wholesalers and other companies.
31:38
And it's the, you know, the embedded HTML and I don't, I just delete, delete, delete, delete.
31:43
So me personally, I like the plain text email because I'm hoping they're going to open it.
31:48
I think when we send out the flyer, they get embedded.
31:52
It's going to be deleted.
31:52
But then again, I don't do a lot on my mobile phone.
31:55
So we've had this argument in my office about the best way to do it.
31:59
Well, let's think about that.
32:01
You know, once I heard, it's interesting because I stand out of newsletter, obviously for a lot of you listeners, you're getting my, my emails.
32:07
Um, actually, I don't, it's not actually a newsletter.
32:09
It's just an email.
32:10
Um, but once I heard somebody say, you know, about from marketing and what's the best type of marketing, like email at the send.
32:17
And you think about this is if you were going to send your friend an email, would it be all fancy and glossy and all that kind of stuff?
32:23
No, right.
32:25
That's a really good point.
32:27
Yeah.
32:28
And so that's why I'm glad I heard what I heard was you people are actually writing the email.
32:31
Everybody listening knows you sit on your mobile phone, you get those templated corporate thing.
32:37
I mean, even, you know, um, the companies that I work with, they send those out because they feel like they have to.
32:41
And I guarantee you that the most low open, low engagement rates people have, what gets noticed, um, is when it's real and raw and you.
32:51
That's it.
32:53
Yep, which is that now that made me remember what I was thinking.
32:56
This came from Ryan Grant.
32:57
Uh, he calls it meaningful engagement.
32:59
It's not just touching base with your clients, but actually having that meaningful engagement with them.
33:04
So then it's more personal.
33:06
Exactly.
33:07
And how do you have meaningful engagement?
33:08
You stop trying to outsource relationships.
33:12
Yeah.
33:13
Get real.
33:14
Let tell people about what's going on.
33:16
That's why you know, it's funny.
33:17
I mean, you see those kind of people call it cheesy whenever those, those career font type written newsletters that are black and white and ugly.
33:26
But that's why that stands out because of the media.
33:29
That's like, well, crap.
33:30
This isn't the usual, you know, corporate BS.
33:33
It looks like David actually wrote this himself.
33:36
Yep.
33:37
And that's the idea and that's where trying to come across.
33:39
Yeah.
33:40
You also do birthday texts.
33:42
Yep.
33:43
We do a text for the birthday.
33:44
So now, you know, let's think about it.
33:46
Before we had email, we just had phone calls.
33:48
New email.
33:49
Now, email is pretty much history because everybody, you know, deletes our emails.
33:53
So now we're on the text, right?
33:55
Now, eventually, text is going to disappear because it's going to be like email where people don't want to get that many texts.
34:00
But so far, we're doing that as well.
34:03
And then, um, so that's actually, now we're at 25 touches.
34:07
Actually, so we have 26 touches a year because the other thing is we do an annual client review.
34:14
Now, um, we set that up at the beginning when we originated alone.
34:18
We explained to them that once we close your loan, you're not done with us.
34:23
From this point forward, our job is to proactively manage a large investment you've taken on in your life.
34:30
So we talk about how we're going to manage the mortgage, like a financial planner manage assets.
34:35
I mean, we gave them the debt so we should help them manage that debt like a financial advisor is going to help them manage their assets.
34:41
Right.
34:42
So we talk about our rate watch program where we're looking at interest rates for them.
34:46
And then we also tell them we're going to call you on an annual basis, um, to review your mortgage rather than interest rate market mandates that are not.
34:54
So in a perfect world, these people should be getting a phone call every 12 months from us.
34:59
I will tell you, we've been incredibly lame about that.
35:03
It's so, so busy from 2010 through 2016 that we fell off mostly on that.
35:13
And I've actually seen my database dropping like I see people that have bought something else or refinanced.
35:22
And I will blame some of that on that.
35:25
But I have to take the majority of blame because we didn't do our job.
35:28
And so just literally in the last 90 days, I've gotten fully focused on doing the end reviews and actually lost a long term person that was on my team.
35:37
So I've been doing it myself.
35:39
And it's been, uh, it's been really eye opening.
35:42
And I really think that that is going to be a huge thing for our business.
35:47
Eye opening in what regard?
35:50
How little meaningful engagement we've had with our clients just because we send them a postcard and a newsletter and a birthday text.
35:59
Doesn't make us any different than anybody else, especially if it was a really easy loan and we have very little interaction with them.
36:06
They're just thinking of us just as the mortgage person.
36:09
So by calling them, we are telling them what what we're going to do and then we're doing what we say we're going to do.
36:16
And I think it's different.
36:19
I don't think that we're going to see the benefit of this for a year or two because it takes time.
36:25
Not everybody you call is going to have a need, but at least they're hearing from you.
36:30
And eight out of ten people go, it goes right to voicemail.
36:33
It's amazing how people don't pick up the phone probably because they see it's me on caller ID.
36:36
I don't know.
36:37
But the people that have picked up, they've not been bugged or offended that I'm bothering them on their cell phone even all the day.
36:45
Well, yeah, because you're planning the seed in the beginning in the first place.
36:51
And you may reference that in your script, I don't know.
36:54
Okay, that's awesome.
36:55
And that clearly for anybody listening, right?
36:57
That'd be a great model for you to follow.
36:58
Now what I'm curious about is how you've pivoted then to integrate some of the more modern touch points if you have, right?
37:07
Such as fending people on social media.
37:10
And that's obviously one way to stay connected and stay visible.
37:13
Anything you're doing in that regard.
37:16
If I was going to rank myself on a scale of one to ten for social media on a good day, I'd be about four.
37:23
Okay.
37:24
That is something that we that we need to work on.
37:28
I'm looking at your Facebook page and I know you do some other things which I'm going to talk about.
37:34
And by the way, okay.
37:35
So if you're new on Facebook, you're already doing a good job.
37:37
For instance, you are what I can see.
37:39
They're posting success stories.
37:41
You've got a picture of this family who just looks like they just bought a home and you're already socializing that.
37:48
So a lot of people aren't doing that.
37:50
And let's transition just I guess for a second time.
37:52
Let's get into what I also jumped out about me about you last time we talked was video testimonials.
37:59
Okay.
38:00
That's that's a modern thing.
38:01
Man, that's cool.
38:02
You're socializing those.
38:03
Those are on your web page.
38:04
And I remember I asked you, how are you getting those?
38:09
Because when I talk about video with video testimonials, most of the pushback is another hard to get.
38:13
People don't want to do it.
38:14
But I want you to share for the listeners, how are you able to get video testimonials?
38:20
Yeah.
38:21
I tell you, I really put it off for a long time.
38:24
And finally, I just had to bear down and do it.
38:27
So I just went through, we rank in our database or clients and they get marked as either normal rating fan or VIP.
38:38
So I pulled a list of all my rating fan and VIPs and I went to the list and I looked at all the ones that were local to my office.
38:47
And I called them up and I said, would you be willing to do this?
38:52
And just about everybody said, yep, I'll do it.
38:55
We hired a videographer for a full eight hour day.
38:58
And we set the videographer and we set up appointments with people to come in and they came and did it.
39:04
And they got a $10 Starbucks gift certificate for all their time.
39:09
And you shot those all in one day?
39:11
All one day.
39:12
Correct.
39:13
And I wanted to bust it out.
39:14
And okay, I tell people what your investment in that was for the videographer.
39:18
It was really, really expensive.
39:20
It was about $450.
39:22
So it was cheap.
39:24
I mean, the videographer all day now, the editing would be more.
39:27
We did that in-house through our company marketing department, which cost more.
39:31
But I would be shocked if it cost any more than $1,000 to do all that.
39:36
Right.
39:37
I'd be shocked.
39:38
And I'm just taking a quick glance at your website and we'll put a link in the show notes.
39:41
But I'm counting just off a quick glance.
39:44
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, I don't know, six or eight testimonials.
39:49
I think we had about six video ones.
39:52
Correct.
39:53
Yeah.
39:54
Yeah.
39:55
Did you have anybody who said no?
39:57
No one said no.
39:58
The two people that couldn't do it as they just had scheduled conflicts.
40:02
And in fact, the one person that said no, I had asked her if she was interested in a couple of months before I set up.
40:07
She says, oh, I'm in business. I'm more than happy to help you out.
40:10
And then of course you couldn't do it.
40:12
But you know, that's okay.
40:13
Did you have plans to do more?
40:15
I don't have plans to do more.
40:17
I probably should.
40:19
But let me ask you.
40:21
Think about it.
40:22
I get butterflies in my stomach thinking about having to do it again.
40:24
Really?
40:25
Why?
40:26
I just, man, you're really asking people to do a lot.
40:31
I mean, for me, you know, maybe it only took an hour out of their day.
40:35
They had to get in their car.
40:36
They had to drive to my office.
40:38
They had to get out.
40:39
They had to do it.
40:40
So maybe it was only an hour out of their life.
40:41
But I noticed I could be busy.
40:42
And I felt guilty taking an hour out of people's lives when they were doing nothing but helping me.
40:48
But maybe that's why they're a raving fan of VIP because they want to help me.
40:51
Well, there you go.
40:52
You know, it's funny though.
40:53
Let's see.
40:54
That's interesting.
40:55
There's a lot of us think that we're imposing.
40:56
And I get that too.
40:57
I mean, even like when I first started out on these podcasts, I was like, oh, I don't know.
41:00
Are they going to want to be on?
41:01
You know, now it's like, come on, man.
41:04
Right.
41:05
But I get it.
41:07
But that just goes to show you that people are so willing to help.
41:12
You know, especially when you do an amazing job for them, which I know you do, right?
41:16
There's this thing called reciprocation.
41:18
People want to help and they feel compelled to give back if you've created an amazing result for them.
41:24
Yeah.
41:25
And it's funny.
41:26
We do a client event.
41:27
We actually do three client events each year for our database.
41:30
But what happens is we rent out a movie theater.
41:32
And we just had it last weekend.
41:33
And one of the guys that did my testimonial was there.
41:36
Of course, I had to think of again for, you know, doing the testimonial.
41:40
Of course, it came to my client event, which was great.
41:43
I'm going to come back to that movie theater thing in a second.
41:46
Just make a note here.
41:47
But one other idea.
41:49
And this is for really for the listeners as well as, you know, I love the fact you do.
41:53
It's very polished and professional output of these video testimonials.
41:58
And that's definitely one way to go.
42:00
Of course, another way to go.
42:01
And maybe we'll get to their David is if you're, you know, just pick a few closings to go to.
42:06
If they're at your, your office or somewhere else.
42:08
And just write.
42:09
You can let people know in advance or whatever.
42:11
Have a tripod.
42:12
Have your iPhone.
42:13
And boom.
42:14
Hey, do you mind if we grab a quick like one minute, you know, tell us about your experience working with the Jaffy team record.
42:18
It's June and Sam Smith.
42:20
And we just want to say great.
42:21
David was out.
42:22
You know what I'm saying?
42:23
It could be as simple as that.
42:24
Well, actually, you know what?
42:25
It's a great idea is a part of our business plan is when the loan documents are sent to escrow.
42:31
We always contact escrow and say we prefer that the clients come to our office and sign the documents.
42:37
Which is how I got the picture of those people.
42:39
They find documents in my office and I took a picture of it and I posted on Facebook.
42:43
But talking about a blinding flash, the obvious.
42:47
Nobody there.
42:48
Why wouldn't I just do a video?
42:49
So thank you.
42:50
Yeah, you bet.
42:51
I mean, pictures cool too.
42:52
That's easy.
42:53
And I'm just, you know, I'm just on the video bandwagon because I just know the impact of video is going to have for people for this business for getting engagement on social media.
43:02
The algorithms are favoring video.
43:03
So.
43:04
And I know we got to break out of our comfort zone on it.
43:07
Trust me.
43:08
We all have that comfort zone.
43:09
But that's where the opportunity is.
43:11
All right.
43:12
Real quick.
43:13
Real quick.
43:14
Then.
43:15
Movie theater rental.
43:16
A couple other top producers have mentioned that as a strategy.
43:19
And it's one I think it's been off people's radar for a long time.
43:22
I don't know why.
43:24
What was the movie you you you invited people to.
43:28
I think the name was something about the clock in the walls.
43:31
I can't remember exactly.
43:32
Yeah, the Disney one.
43:33
Yeah.
43:34
Yeah.
43:35
And by the way, that was.
43:36
It was a bomber because that really wasn't a great movie.
43:39
Yeah.
43:40
To get people in.
43:41
But it just so happened.
43:42
We needed to get our movie event out.
43:43
So.
43:44
Have you better than before?
43:45
Yeah.
43:46
Yeah.
43:47
This is the third world we've done.
43:48
We did pirates of the Caribbean, which was a much better.
43:50
Draw for people.
43:51
Do you do it like once a year or what?
43:53
Once a year.
43:54
Yep.
43:55
And you team up with a realtor is it just for you and your clients?
43:58
Just me and my clients.
43:59
So what we do is.
44:01
We actually have the database segmented.
44:04
So the first invitation goes out just to our rating fan and VIPs.
44:08
And then if we don't get enough people, we'll then just open it up.
44:11
To anybody we've closed the loan for in the last four years.
44:15
And then we'll open up the whole database and then we'll open it up to referral partners.
44:19
And is your goal to fill the theater?
44:22
My goal is to always fill the theater.
44:24
Yep.
44:25
You bet.
44:26
And were you successful on this last one?
44:29
You know, I got to tell you I'm still a little up in the air.
44:31
I think we'll continue to do it.
44:32
We had about 53 people there.
44:35
But that's families.
44:36
That really only was 18 different families.
44:39
But that's still a meaningful engagement with 18 people.
44:42
And most of those were raving fan VIPs.
44:44
So it was just another way for me to put a face to a name.
44:48
So I just think that I think it will pay off.
44:52
It's relatively inexpensive.
44:53
It comes out to about 20 bucks a person by Tommy by popcorn and ticket and all that.
44:59
Yeah.
45:00
So you're doing it like at a off time.
45:01
Morning or mid something like that to get a discount, right?
45:04
Yeah, sorry.
45:05
Morning 11 am.
45:06
It's not just kind of much.
45:07
I got to tell you we're in the wrong business, Jeff.
45:10
A lot of money to popcorn and soda, baby.
45:13
That's right.
45:14
They don't have margin compression.
45:16
The popcorn business.
45:17
No.
45:18
Awesome.
45:19
Awesome.
45:20
Okay.
45:21
Cool.
45:22
All right.
45:23
Well, in closing it out here, let's do this.
45:25
I'd be curious to, and you and I touched on this last time.
45:28
But I'd be curious to get the input from somebody from a $3 billion originator.
45:33
28 years in the business.
45:35
You know, you've seen a lot come and go.
45:39
I know you're keeping your pulse on where the.
45:42
Kind of what the direction with the future is.
45:44
There's some unknowns.
45:45
But what are you doing?
45:46
Let's say you're hired me.
45:48
Okay.
45:49
I'm a loan officer.
45:50
Maybe I was in a call center or something.
45:51
But I come to you with maybe a couple of three years experience under my belt or something.
45:56
What are you telling me to do or what are you telling yourself to do?
46:00
To stay relevant in the coming years?
46:02
I'm going to beat them up from day one about their database.
46:07
I'm still shocked to this day.
46:09
How few loan officers and realtors have a database of clothes loan customers.
46:15
I just, I cannot fathom the fact that people are not doing a database.
46:20
So I probably would not let them do anything until I saw that that database was set up.
46:25
I have a lot of people in their database, but they've got five clothes loan that five people they need to stay in touch with.
46:31
And I would probably recommend they do a quarterly review.
46:35
Maybe not to review the mortgage every quarter, but to call them at least every quarter.
46:39
And they would have to do a much better job on social media than I'm doing between Instagram and Twitter and all that other stuff.
46:50
And then I would also have them try to go after realtors.
46:55
When I started, realtors controlled about 65% of referrals.
46:59
Now I think it's down to about 25%.
47:01
So I wouldn't call that the be all end all, but I think that's a good way to at least get your foot in the door somewhere and try to get some quicker business.
47:09
As I was just going to say, is that's because that's the now business, the short term.
47:15
And just let's just reiterate this point for those listeners.
47:19
You know this well is the path to close the path to success and trust when it's a referral is night and day compared to something you generated online.
47:31
And so good point there is people say, I've got this great marketing program.
47:35
I'm doing Facebook advertising.
47:37
I've got all these great marketing.
47:39
Our number one marketing program is our service level.
47:45
I have great service.
47:46
That's fine.
47:47
We have great service.
47:48
But we have a perfect loan process plan in place.
47:52
And the idea is to allow the customer and the referral partners so much.
47:56
With working with the Jaffee team throughout the process that it creates a constant string referrals.
48:01
So you can't just get that deal in the door and you can't just close it on time because that's a given.
48:06
You have to close it with excellence.
48:09
You have to be unbelievable from the minute you talk to them through the pre-approved through the home search process from opening escrow all the way through the escrow period and closing.
48:20
You have to be unbelievable.
48:22
I agree.
48:23
And I think a caveat to that, if that's an appropriate word to using what I'm trying to get across here is.
48:30
But I think you're saying the same thing is, yes, you have to have that five star client experience, but you can't come out of the gates using that as a differentiator.
48:39
Meaning like scripting to real well, why should I work with you because I have this awesome client experience.
48:44
Well, until they've gone through that, it sounds like everybody else.
48:48
Yep, I agree.
48:50
Awesome.
48:52
Cool, man. What are you doing to finish out the year strong?
48:57
I'm reviewing my business plan again to make sure that we are doing everything that we're supposed to be doing on our business plan.
49:05
I'm getting fully focused on ensuring that we stay on track with calling our database of clients into the annual review.
49:13
That's something that we're being absolutely brutal about doing.
49:18
Love it, love it, be brutal about past database.
49:23
I love that you said it doesn't have to be annual either.
49:25
Just be quarterly.
49:26
Just be like, hey, I do a quarterly check up just to see because life changes.
49:29
So I want to highlight that for people who think, well, I can't call for every 12 months.
49:34
No, call, right?
49:35
Just set that up.
49:36
Set the expectations and advance.
49:37
Awesome.
49:38
Okay.
49:39
I've got 2100 people we're actively doing.
49:41
And if I'm doing it myself, someone who doesn't have 2100 active people in their database can easily do it by themselves.
49:48
There you go, structure planning.
49:50
Well, listen, for those who want to maybe connect with you, what's the best place for them to do that?
49:55
Email is David at jaffyteam.com.
49:59
That's David at J-A-F-F-E-Team.com.
50:04
Awesome.
50:05
Well, we appreciate you being here as always.
50:07
Thank you.
50:08
It was a crash course and lessons from a $3 billion originator.
50:13
So thank you very much for that.
50:15
Thanks for having me Jeff.
50:16
I appreciate it.
50:17
You bet.
50:18
And listeners, as always, feel free to reach out to me anytime on Facebook and the group.
50:22
Email me podcast at Mortgage Marketing Radio.
50:24
But if you haven't yet left a review, do so, please.
50:28
That's how we reach more known originators.
50:30
I appreciate you being here.
50:31
See you on the next one.
50:32
Bye for now.
50:33
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
50:36
One more truth in Mortgage Marketing.
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