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He Stayed at Home and Built a Clinic Instead! This Is What ‘Doing It Properly’ Looks Like · No Appointment Necessary

• 0:00
  Michael: So, welcome to the latest episode of No Appointment Necessary.
• 0:03
  Michael: Today we've got Jack, who owns Winchester Physio and Health.
• 0:06
  Michael: And quite honestly, this is one I'm really, really excited for.
• 0:10
  Michael: Jack, we first met him about 18 months ago.
• 0:14
  Michael: And I think if you could do a case study in how to absolutely smash it from opening a clinic to building something incredibly successful in 18 months, he's done it.
• 0:24
  Michael: This one's so excited to talk to you about exactly how you've done it, problems, and just really have a general chat to explore um, explore what's happened over the last 18 months and what the plans for the future are as well.
• 0:37
  Michael: So welcome, Jack.
• 0:39
  Michael: If you want to give me a just a quick intro to yourself, who you are, and then we'll get on to the exciting stuff.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cool.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, firstly, thanks for inviting me on, Michael.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's a pleasure to be here.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, so I'm I'm Jack.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the clinic owner of Winchester Physio and Health.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And as Michael said, we opened 18 months ago.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Before that, I spent about five or six years working in private physio across Hampshire, Berkshire, and into London.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was working, working across the kind of private physio uh network through Hampshire, Berkshire and into London and recognised a lot of good elements across various clinics and just thought whether I could pull all of that together and create a better, um, a better approach to physio.
• 1:18
  Michael: Did you did you have a bit of because I've only just found out how you funded it?
• 1:22
  Michael: Tell tell how did you fund it all?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I was saving up to move out of home.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So getting a deposit to uh to move out, and um rather than moving out, I stayed at home and and decided to open the business.
• 1:34
  Michael: See, that's pretty entrepreneurial, right?
• 1:36
  Michael: That's that's exactly how people should be doing it.
• 1:38
  Michael: Did you also have a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit there, where you're like, I really want to own my own business, or was it more sort of accidental, I should just do it?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it came from my dad.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: My dad's owned several businesses, and I'd always kind of looked up to him as someone that had worked for himself, worked hard, and and kind of reap the rewards.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of it's kind of come from quite a young age, watching dad grow his business, and and yeah, I just thought that I'd like to do it myself.
• 2:03
  Michael: So did you get uh because I I I find that a lot of clinic owners who who approach us and we start working with, especially in your position, they're very green when it comes to basics like accounting and and and the basics of running a business.
• 2:18
  Michael: Did you already have a bit of that instilled in you then?
• 2:21
  Michael: And and also do you do you use your dad as a sounding board ever?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess so.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'd watched dad um whilst growing up, you know, he was involved with meetings and accountants, and I was involved with the business as I kind of went through college and university, um, getting involved during the summer holidays, working through and yeah, so yes, he was I guess he was a bit of a sounding board for uh opening Winchester, and um yeah, I kind of I kind of learned a lot from him, I guess, before even approaching that.
• 2:53
  Michael: So let's start right at the beginning.
• 2:55
  Michael: So I remember you booked in a call with us and and we got on the call together, and I remember being in a little bit of a grumpy mood that day, and you had said, I'm opening this clinic and I want help with marketing.
• 3:05
  Michael: I'm gonna call it Evolve, I think it was Evolve or Evolution Physiotherapy or something.
• 3:10
  Michael: Yeah.
• 3:11
  Michael: Yeah, and I was like, no, don't do that.
• 3:12
  Michael: And what was really interesting, we had a really great discussion, and you essentially did everything we said, right?
• 3:19
  Michael: It was like, I'm just gonna, these guys know what they're talking about.
• 3:22
  Michael: I'm gonna do everything you tell me, and and you did, right?
• 3:25
  Michael: And I and I think that gave you a really good starting point because from a marketing perspective, I think we sort of started about three months before you opened and actually opened the clinic.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:36
  Michael: Yeah, so by the time it opened, everything was in place, right?
• 3:39
  Michael: It was just ready to rock and roll, um, which is really cool.
• 3:43
  Michael: So I think from a marketing sort of perspective, it was really important that um even though I was a bit a bit grumpy and um in a bit of a bad mood, you took it really well and you just went, all right, fine, I'll do it.
• 3:54
  Michael: Um, and it's it was important from a marketing perspective.
• 3:57
  Michael: But then beyond that, um, you know, you you've gone from a position 18 months ago of of being a very teeny little clinic to now having how many physios have you got 18 months later?
• 4:07
  Michael: Or how many staff members?
• 4:09
  Michael: Four you got four staff members.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so four physios.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So six.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Six in total, four physios and then admin and support.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's six in total.
• 4:19
  Michael: Yeah.
• 4:20
  Michael: So six staff in 18 months.
• 4:21
  Michael: Well, uh, we're not gonna go into numbers or or anything, but you're absolutely smashing it.
• 4:25
  Michael: You can certainly afford um probably to pay your deposit back by now.
• 4:30
  Michael: Um uh they still you're still scheming and living at home and being approval.
• 4:34
  Michael: Um, but now we're opening uh you're opening another clinic um uh as well, which we'll go into a bit later.
• 4:41
  Michael: But let's go back to you've got your marketing place, everything's looking great.
• 4:44
  Michael: How did you bloody do it?
• 4:46
  Michael: How did you how did you this far in 18 months?
• 4:49
  Michael: Because there are clinics who um have been operating for 15 years that haven't managed to get to the point that you are today, both in terms of your revenue and in terms of your net profit, actually, against that revenue, which I think is absolutely sensational for any clinic, then mine one that's 18 months old.
• 5:06
  Michael: What's the secret source?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I was thinking about this before the call, but um there's nothing special.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: We've just got the basics right, I guess.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: All the way back 18 months ago when we when we spoke to you about clinic name uh and how that would influence SEO, etc.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: It all started, I guess, with what you and your team did at HMDG and in setting us up and getting us out there.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was a massive part.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's driven a huge number of new patients into the clinic, whether that's via the websites, Google ads.
• 5:38
  Michael: Yeah, but even more often, I think that's it's it it absolutely, and we'll take uh definitely take a little bit of credit, and you still owe me a bottle of wine or something, um, or a Christmas hamper, but um I can't take all the credit and and you know, for example, there are very few people that have the eye and spend as much time and do it as well as you in terms of fitting the clinic out because it looks absolutely fucking fantastic.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um did you do all of that yourself?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So dad's a builder, so it comes back to dad again, I guess.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: We that saved a huge amount of money, I guess, in terms of startup and setting the clinic up.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we wanted to make it a space where people wanted to work so we would, I guess, attract good physios, making sure that the environment was good and we had the equipment to attract quality practitioners, but also attract attract clients and and clients that we want, I guess.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So make that space welcoming, engaging.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're in a great location in Winchester and we wanted to, I guess, take full advantage of that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we we didn't really have much of a budget, I guess, when it comes to the fit out, um, because we wanted it to be right.
• 6:41
  Michael: Yeah, I I think that's interesting because you hit on two points there.
• 6:44
  Michael: The first is it looks fantastic, even from like the uplighting, the kind of exposed brick walls.
• 6:50
  Michael: It just looks fantastic.
• 6:52
  Michael: It's the sort of place where you know I often mention third space as a as a place that's got really great, uh really great brand and how they kit it out.
• 6:59
  Michael: You've almost built like a mini third space in Winchester, which is amazing.
• 7:02
  Michael: You've also gone for the S and C side of things as well, right?
• 7:05
  Michael: So you're not just a physio who's treating people in a room, you've gotten a really nice S and C space.
• 7:10
  Michael: But then beyond that, you know, so you've created that patient experience, which I think is the number one lesson for anyone, right?
• 7:15
  Michael: It's create a great patient experience.
• 7:18
  Michael: Your reception looks fantastic, the the rooms look fantastic, the gym space looks fantastic.
• 7:24
  Michael: Even externally, actually looking at it, it looks like an amazing place to go.
• 7:28
  Michael: And I would have no hesitation in going there.
• 7:31
  Michael: And then you got all of that right, but then you've also got the location.
• 7:34
  Michael: You chose really wisely because you didn't do the not there's anything wrong with this, but you didn't go and open up in the gym, uh pure gym around the corner, you didn't open up on an industrial estate, for example.
• 7:45
  Michael: You went, I'm gonna be on the high street and I'm gonna be visible.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 7:52
  Michael: How much how much do you think that do you think that made a difference in terms of being on the high street?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it made a bit big difference.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we get a huge amount of passing trade, we get a lot of walk-ins on a daily basis that come in and book appointments.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I think from an exposure visual point of view, absolutely it does make a difference.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're not hidden away on a business part.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: We are there, we're next to yoga studios, private dentists.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the location's was a massive hit.
• 8:18
  Michael: Yeah, I think so.
• 8:19
  Michael: I I think uh out of interest, how many walk-ins do you get per week, roughly?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, eight, ten, twelve, something like that around there.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't track it, but it's good numbers.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:28
  Michael: No, that's really good.
• 8:29
  Michael: Like it, you know, I I I think just getting pure walk-ins is is huge.
• 8:33
  Michael: But I think also, I think being on the high street in that way and having a clinic looks like that, it almost gives you more credibility in in patient science, particularly in an area like Winchester, very, very wealthy.
• 8:44
  Michael: I think if someone sees you on the high street, um it looks great from outside and so on.
• 8:49
  Michael: I think it it and matched with your digital as well, because you've got an amazing website and socials and whatever.
• 8:55
  Michael: I think that that definitely gives a lot more credibility, and you probably get a higher percentage conversion rate from people who are walking by or people who come and see your website or whatever the case may be.
• 9:05
  Michael: So I think that's super important.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have a lot of clients that live local, just want to be able to walk in and yeah, offer that, I guess.
• 9:12
  Michael: That's it.
• 9:13
  Michael: Did you uh you mentioned yoga studios, blood studios, and product dentists?
• 9:17
  Michael: Have you done anything locally to build relationships with other similar businesses?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Loosely, yes, we do.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we work with the yoga studio next door, a few of the reformer studios as well, but they're loose, they're very, very loose partnerships.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: We've never really worked overly hard at um securing anything uh official, I guess.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's no there's no kind of locked-in partnership.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: We know each other and we we share clients to each other, but there's nothing, there's nothing kind of formal or fixed on that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't needed it to be, and and yeah, we know where each other are, but we don't we haven't got any kind of formal partnership.
• 9:53
  Michael: Yeah, but I think it's important, especially informal partnerships, making sure that you have other especially with a yoga or Pilates studio where they can you can refer in and out, and and I think that's really important.
• 10:03
  Michael: That probably gets you a fair amount of business as well over the course of a year.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely does.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: We share flyers and we've got bits in our place and they've got bits of ours in theirs.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's just it's just being involved in the local community, it definitely helps.
• 10:15
  Michael: And so I think what's what's been really interesting, because I mentioned you actually on a call with a potential client earlier on today.
• 10:20
  Michael: I you know, none of this is rocket science, right?
• 10:23
  Michael: I I don't think it's particularly difficult to build a really great clinic and get patients through because you've never really had a problem with patients.
• 10:30
  Michael: I can't remember the last time you said, guys, we need to do something because it's so quiet.
• 10:35
  Michael: We need to you just haven't really had that problem.
• 10:37
  Michael: You've you've you've really always been very lucky with getting patient numbers through, and I think that's again very early on.
• 10:44
  Michael: Again, from a digital perspective, very early on, we went into SEO and we got you visible pretty quickly.
• 10:49
  Michael: I think you're probably number one in all of Winchester now for everything.
• 10:53
  Michael: Obviously the words like everything else, but then at the same time, again, looking, being on the high street, looking the way your clinic does, patients haven't been a problem.
• 11:02
  Michael: But I'm wondering about the staff because you've also employed quite a few staff.
• 11:06
  Michael: That doesn't seem to have been a problem for you either.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, it doesn't.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: We've been really lucky, I guess.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: We've I had Sophie join initially in April, no, September last year.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: I knew her from before.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I knew her background, I knew she was a good physio.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: She bought in the Women's Health Mummy MOT reformer service, which is which has been incredible.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the others that we found were just just through Indeed ads.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So um we try I tried to find physios through my network and through people I know, but I couldn't I couldn't actually find anyone.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we put some ads out on Indeed, and and we've been really lucky that we've found some good quality experienced physios.
• 11:43
  Michael: Um I think But I think sorry, I I think one of the reasons is that again, you said at right at the start you built something where people wanted to work.
• 11:54
  Michael: And I think that if I was a uh clinician, I would want to be in that clinic.
• 11:59
  Michael: It looks great, it feels right, you've got the right vibe, the right culture, and so on.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's another reason why we did it.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess we offer the valve systems and the shockwave and the unlimited CBD and all the other bits to attract the kind of physio that we're after, I guess.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: We want a young team.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's young there, is keen to learn, and yeah, we've been we've been super lucky.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's made a huge, huge difference.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Patients love our physios and um, yeah, it's been great.
• 12:29
  Michael: You you've also quite quickly actually, compared to many clinics, you uh started expanding the services into a lot of different areas.
• 12:39
  Michael: Mentioned vowed and shockwave, but you've done a lot more, right?
• 12:42
  Michael: You you're doing a lot more on women's health, for example.
• 12:45
  Michael: Yes.
• 12:46
  Michael: What made you start thinking about doing that?
• 12:48
  Michael: What what what was the reasoning behind that?
• 12:50
  Michael: Was that the plan from the start?
• 12:52
  Michael: No.
• 12:52
  Michael: Or did you start getting so many patients and then you decided to start doing you all services?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I guess it all happened really from Sophie joining the team September last year.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So um I spoke to Sophie back just as we opened.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've known her for a while.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted a female physio to be able to offer that diversity, I guess, across male and female clinicians.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she she lives in Winchester and she was already experienced and come from a women's health background.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Winchester at the time, and I don't think it still does, have much of a women's health physio service.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we wanted to tap into that.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of young mums that have moved away out of London down into Winchester.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: So again, the kind of market that we wanted to capture, we've moved out of London, ready to start a family.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: We really wanted to tap into the kind of mummy MOT, women's health, reformer Pilates-based service.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Sophie's well, that's Sophie's diary.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: She's full-time and that's all she sees now is reforma and mummy MOT.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um it kind of happened, I guess, just based on Sophie joining the team and and recognising the gap in the market.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's been um it's been great.
• 13:55
  Michael: So it's it's been 18 months.
• 13:57
  Michael: Uh, you've got yourself to a point where uh you're making lots of money, very profitable.
• 14:03
  Michael: In terms of uh capacity, where are you now?
• 14:05
  Michael: Like are you a sort of or occupancy, are you like 80%, 60%, 90%?
• 14:10
  Michael: What's the kind of number?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: 90, 95%.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So this week, for example, I think we've got about two or three 30 minute gaps across three and a half physios.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, we're we're we're pretty well, we're pretty close to capacity, which is which is good and bad, I guess.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: It brings its challenges.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Patients want appointments in the same week.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're not able to offer that, but yeah, it's a great position to be in.
• 14:32
  Michael: I and I think I guess one of the challenges is you can't actually expand much more, right?
• 14:36
  Michael: In in the location that you're at.
• 14:37
  Michael: Not really.
• 14:38
  Michael: It's not like you can just choose the room or whatever.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, we'd have a capacity.
• 14:43
  Michael: Yeah, but it again being a 95% is absolute madness.
• 14:48
  Michael: You know, I know I uh yeah, the the people are always gonna ask what's the secret source?
• 14:53
  Michael: And I think um if if I can just kind of say it's get your marketing right and do it really, really well.
• 14:59
  Michael: Make sure you got the brand right, make sure you really fit out your clinic and you create a brilliant patient and clinician experience um within the clinic because there's nothing worse.
• 15:09
  Michael: I remember once applying going to see someone for an interview, and uh it was at like a Regis office.
• 15:14
  Michael: And I'm like, oh my god, it's like I'm not gonna work here, right?
• 15:18
  Michael: Um, it just was it was awful.
• 15:21
  Michael: And I think that you know, to create a really nice experience, it's gonna help clinicians, it's gonna help you recruit, it's gonna help you bring patients through the doors.
• 15:28
  Michael: Marketing, experience, fitting it all out, and then location.
• 15:31
  Michael: These are the these are the key key sort of elements, and then beyond that, um looking at your team and knowing what I do, I think also building a really good team that all gel together, have a really good life's culture.
• 15:42
  Michael: Like you, you know, there's no one there where I don't I think everyone likes each other, right?
• 15:45
  Michael: Everyone really gets on and you've got a proper little mini family type.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think also we are did you do that?
• 15:55
  Michael: How did you do that?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: What was the what was the secret there?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: What with getting the team to kind of gel and and build that family kind of I don't know.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we really we try and we try and fit in fortnightly kind of coffee coffee breaks where we'll go out to a local coffee shop, sit down, have a chat, and make sure it's nothing about work.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: We do three or four kind of socials throughout the year, so whether that's like a summer social, Christmas, uh, spring, Easter, that kind of time, just to get everyone outside of work, outside of the clinic and doing fun things, I guess, whether it's coffees, going out for drinks, going out for evening meals, something, you know, been to the rugby, just trying to mix it up, I guess, just trying to get people away from the clinic and and build that um build that family unit that that we have.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, I think that I think that's what it's come down to.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just getting people away from the clinic and and enjoying enjoying that time together.
• 16:48
  Michael: I think also uh it's it's choosing the right personalities when you're hiring, right?
• 16:53
  Michael: Yes, yes.
• 16:54
  Michael: You've got to make sure people gel and will fit in with the other people who are already there.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's when when we have recruited, it's yes, clinical skills and and experience are important, but actually just finding the right person that not only is gonna fit with the team, but is able to build that rapport with the patient is is almost more important than the clinical skills at some point.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's we we can we can train and we can we can put people on courses to make them better physios, but you can't make them a better person.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's that's super important.
• 17:25
  Michael: Yeah.
• 17:25
  Michael: I think uh another thing that is uh because I think you're very humble and uh I think you truly believe a lot of it is an accident.
• 17:34
  Michael: And I do uh you know, people often say to me, Oh my god, we're a genius, look at what you've done with HMTG.
• 17:38
  Michael: I'm like, it's really fucking hard work and it's a lot of accidental stuff happening at the right times, right?
• 17:43
  Michael: You you can never in the same way as when something goes bad, you can't knock yourself too much.
• 17:47
  Michael: If something's really great, you can't just pat yourself on the back all the time.
• 17:50
  Michael: You've got to realize like a lot of this is kind of control.
• 17:54
  Michael: But there was something else that was really interesting about you, which most people don't have, which was going right back to the beginning, but even since then, you had a very commercial mind and a very commercial brain.
• 18:06
  Michael: You were not scared of spending money.
• 18:08
  Michael: And when we had those first conversations, we were talking about costs and how we were going to do it.
• 18:13
  Michael: You weren't stupid.
• 18:14
  Michael: You I think you even asked for a discount at some point where I said no, but you weren't stupid, but at the same time, you weren't scared of spending money in the right ways.
• 18:23
  Michael: And I think that's another really important thing because I think a lot of people, a lot of clinic owners, and partly maybe because of bad experiences in the past, or maybe it's just a worry, they are always concerned.
• 18:34
  Michael: They find it, even to this day, we've got clients that find it difficult sometimes to really grasp the concept of ROI.
• 18:40
  Michael: Whereas for you, it was very, very simple.
• 18:42
  Michael: I put in a pound, I get five pounds back.
• 18:45
  Michael: I need to find more pounds to put into the magic slot machine, right?
• 18:48
  Michael: Yeah.
• 18:49
  Michael: And throughout the whole time, you've been like that.
• 18:51
  Michael: You've been, you know, you've never been worried.
• 18:53
  Michael: Even when it came to uh very early on, we I said to you, we can either start the SEO straight away, spend some money, and make sure that by the time you open, you're in the at the top of Google, or we can wait a while and do that later on.
• 19:06
  Michael: You said, let's just do it now, because I I can see why it's important.
• 19:09
  Michael: I know it's going to cost money, but I'm willing to invest because I know that's going to work.
• 19:14
  Michael: And I I I suppose maybe this comes from again your dad being a bit of an entrepreneur, maybe.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess so.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I guess there is a bit of that, but also um I don't know, comes down to I guess I reached out to you guys.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: You guys suggested what was best and and how are we gonna make this work.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, patients come to us for advice and and you'd hope that they'd take it, and you know, you flip it the other way.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I don't know.
• 19:42
  Michael: I think that that's uh do you know what?
• 19:44
  Michael: That's a I'm gonna use that in the future.
• 19:46
  Michael: Patients go to you for advice, come to us for advice and take it.
• 19:49
  Michael: And uh because we get a lot of people who don't actually.
• 19:52
  Michael: But I I suppose also there's an element of risk here, I'm because this wasn't money that the you had inherited or whatever, it was real money.
• 20:00
  Michael: It was your deposit and there's an inherently a risk, right, with anything that you do in life.
• 20:05
  Michael: Starting up the business in the first place, right?
• 20:06
  Michael: Whether it's on the marketing or do thing.
• 20:09
  Michael: So you must at some level be a bit of a risk taker.
• 20:13
  Michael: Yeah, maybe.
• 20:14
  Michael: I guess yeah, maybe I am.
• 20:16
  Michael: I don't know.
• 20:17
  Michael: Well, let me ask you, let's say let's say um let's say we go out, we get a bit pissed, and we end up at a casino.
• 20:23
  Michael: Um and I suggest let's stick a grand on black or red.
• 20:28
  Michael: Would you do it?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 20:30
  Michael: Yeah, I would I would as well.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah, maybe then.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:35
  Michael: Yeah, maybe maybe 10 grand.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, probably not no.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, maybe I am.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'd maybe I am and I don't know it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I'm not sure.
• 20:44
  Michael: No, I think you are, but I I think most successful entrepreneurs are risk takers, right?
• 20:50
  Michael: I I think you've always got to take risks when when you're and uh they can be calculated risks and they can be informed risks and so on.
• 20:57
  Michael: I'm not suggesting that uh you just start putting all your money on red or black, but you've got to sometimes always calculate risks.
• 21:04
  Michael: I saw an interesting TikTok earlier with Elon Musk, and he said back in 2008, he had two companies and he had 30 million dollars left, and they were both falling down, and he had to make the decision which one he puts the 30 million dollars into.
• 21:19
  Michael: In the end, he couldn't decide, and he said they were like his babies, he'd rather lose both than rescue one and see one die because he didn't take the risk, the risk.
• 21:29
  Michael: So uh and those companies end up being SpaceX and Tesla.
• 21:32
  Michael: So it was kind of an interesting, um an interesting analogy, I suppose, because it's it is that risk element.
• 21:38
  Michael: You'd rather see it die and take the risk than not succeed and not take the risk.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 21:45
  Michael: And you're very much like that as well.
• 21:47
  Michael: Which brings us on to your next big risk, risk-taking adventure, which is your opening up another clinic.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, we are.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, hopefully planning to do exactly the same again, but we'll see.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, opening, hopefully opening February, March next year.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we've just taken the lease for another another premises, this time in Romsey.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: So about 20 minutes outside of Winchester.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you know, the plan is to do exactly the same again when it comes to website marketing, design of the clinic, hopefully the team that we can recruit.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, absolutely.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go again.
• 22:22
  Michael: It's really interesting, isn't it?
• 22:24
  Michael: Because it's exactly that will put you in in exactly two years from the day of opening the first clinic in Winchester.
• 22:30
  Michael: Yes.
• 22:31
  Michael: Now you've got exactly two years later.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd never have thought I was two years.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:38
  Michael: Yeah, and I yeah, I suppose you I bet you could never have imagined that two years later you'd be opening up a second clinic because you don't have any more space than the bloody first one.
• 22:47
  Michael: You're that rammed.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's mad.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is crazy.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's um I kind of set out a bit of a I always planned that I wanted to open a second before I opened Winchester, um, and kind of structured, I guess, a bit of a when am I gonna do that?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, it definitely wasn't a two years.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, we've definitely has it all been a bit of a dream?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Does it feel like a dream?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess it has a bit.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess it has.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's been yeah, I guess it probably has.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was never what we expected it to be.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Recruiting someone that's in September, six months from opening, and then and then another one in the new year.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, everything's come through a lot, lot quicker than what we expected.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which is great.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, hopefully we can uh I am super uh genuinely super pleased for you.
• 23:35
  Michael: Um we've got a few people like you who who have done exactly the same thing.
• 23:39
  Michael: Again, I don't think any of this is rocket science, it's just doing things the right way and being sensible about it.
• 23:44
  Michael: Um with a bit of luck and a lot of hard work and hard interestingly with the new clinic, so yeah, let's see.
• 23:50
  Michael: It'll be really interesting to see whether we can replicate it.
• 23:52
  Michael: I think you I say we, I mean I think you can absolutely we can replicate our side, but I think you can replicate it, and I wouldn't be surprised if you're in a similar position in in the next 18 months again.
• 24:03
  Michael: Um I don't see any reason why not.
• 24:05
  Michael: The the only reason would be some kind of uh location specific thing, but I don't think that'll be the case.
• 24:11
  Michael: So um yeah, I'm I'm super pleased.
• 24:14
  Michael: So the the plan is going to be to recreate same services as well in Romsey.
• 24:19
  Michael: And will you use it maybe as an outlet for patients in Winchester that can't get in to come and visit Romsey?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've um we've got a very small client base that travel from Romsey to Winchester at the moment.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not quite sure on the services yet.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: There might be some that we offer in one that we don't offer in the other initially, so hopefully we can kind of bounce patients to and from that with it only being 20 minutes or so down the road.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the view will be to eventually offer the same services, but patients can move within one or the other.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, no, it should be, it should be, it should be good.
• 24:53
  Michael: So we've talked about like what an amazing journey it's been and it's a bit of a dream.
• 24:58
  Michael: And I have to, yeah, we we we we talk often, and you know, we had the same experience with HMDG.
• 25:03
  Michael: We were just like, Holy shit, it just grew and grew and grew, and it just it was really hard thing wrong.
• 25:10
  Michael: Um I I want to ask, were there because I can give you a million things where we screwed up, where we made wrong decisions, where things went really badly wrong.
• 25:19
  Michael: Has that happened to you?
• 25:21
  Michael: Over the last year, or where you'd just be like, oh Jesus Christ, that was a terrible idea, or this was a terrible mistake.
• 25:27
  Michael: Um, what are the biggest challenges?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, not really.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, we haven't really had anything, like no big mistakes.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've had small ones where we've decided that we'll run some group S and C in the gym and then realize it doesn't really work with the space that we've got, and patients coming in still for other appointments.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So utilising the overutilising the space, maybe.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a we've had a little bit of that where we've we've almost jumped to other services or appointment types, etc., that haven't really worked just because of the space that we've got.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But nothing that's been no big mistakes or nothing there, we've we've spent money that we wish we hadn't.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it really has just been, I guess, just maybe running before we can walk sometimes.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: But that's that's literally happened.
• 26:13
  Michael: Yeah, but at the same time, I think again, you've got to take a bit of credit because you can run with a bad idea for a long time, or you can recognise it's a bad idea and and finish it up.
• 26:22
  Michael: Yeah.
• 26:22
  Michael: And I and I think that is a there is a skill and a talent in that where whether that's to be honest, it can it's not just ideas, right?
• 26:30
  Michael: It could be uh an employee that you keep on for too long or fire at the right time, or you know, it could be anything in business, and I think you've got that where you're able to kind of detach yourself emotionally a little bit and go, all right, it was my idea, but it's not working.
• 26:44
  Michael: Let's can it, let's move on.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's yeah, I guess that's what we've had.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a few of those, but nothing, nothing big and major.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So again, yeah, we've we've been lucky, I guess.
• 26:53
  Michael: And I and I think um looking at another reason for the success, I suppose, is that you went into it with a pot of money, which obviously, you know, not everybody has, and we can say you're lucky or whatever to have that.
• 27:06
  Michael: But I think that from what I see, I see a lot of clinic owners, new clinic owners, or even those who who who come to us and say we want to do special things, they very rarely have a pot of money.
• 27:16
  Michael: And and I'm not saying you had like a hundred grand, it wasn't, it was uh small, yeah, it was a mini pot of money, yeah.
• 27:22
  Michael: But at least you had enough to say uh I can do this and pay for everything for four, five, six months.
• 27:28
  Michael: And I think that uh I think that's really important because we see a lot of clinic owners who come to us and they say, you know, I want to do XYZ, I've got 500 pounds.
• 27:37
  Michael: And it's like, well, there's not much we can do with that.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess it comes back to living at home and and yeah, having that.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, having that, having that deposit that I decided to spend on the business, but also, yeah.
• 27:54
  Michael: Well, reinvesting the money as well, because you you you haven't just been like living a life of Riley, sitting in the Maldives like I have.
• 28:01
  Michael: You've been taking the money and putting it back into the business, right?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, we have absolutely have.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have we upgraded our Shockwave machine pretty early on.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted to offer Shockwave from the beginning, and we didn't really buy an amazing machine initially, but we wanted to offer it, so we got kind of a very kind of low kind of entry-level machine, which we then decided to upgrade early on when we realized the service was taking off.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: We added reformer.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realise how expensive those machines were until we committed to buying one.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, we have reinvested, which has been good.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's definitely paid off and and we've made it.
• 28:36
  Michael: Do you do you mean new reformer?
• 28:38
  Michael: Because one of our very lovely clients has started a reformer business doing really amazing reforma machines.
• 28:44
  Michael: So uh I'm gonna get her on a podcast actually because she's she's got an insanely great clinic or set of clinics, um, and she's managed to do a huge amount of money through uh recurring revenue on the reformer side.
• 28:57
  Michael: So I'm gonna get her on to talk about her new business, but also how she built the business um uh around reformer almost.
• 29:04
  Michael: Um give me a shout if you're looking for a reformer.
• 29:07
  Michael: Um in terms of the future, what is gonna be interesting for me is you've got a lovely clinic in Winchester, Romsey is a good 20-30 minutes away.
• 29:17
  Michael: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Michael: Do you think that the Winchester clinic is gonna be able to run with you focused much more on Romsey, or do you envisage any problems there?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: The plan the plan the plan at the moment is that I will I will go to Romsey 80% of the time and set up Romsey like I did at Winchester.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: We've got we've got a very experienced visio that's come with management experience that's going to look after Winchester alongside me still.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, we're going to hopefully bridge that gap over the coming months.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's going to be tricky because it's I don't want to let go of it.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I feel like I'm going to probably have to a little bit to focus on the new clinic.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got a plan in place, but we'll um I don't know how well we'll actually.
• 30:08
  Michael: This is fascinating.
• 30:09
  Michael: This is actually fascinating because you're a bit excuse me, you're a bit of a guinea pig in some ways, because you know, you open up a clinic with no real knowledge of how to run a business, you smash that, you you go all the way through, you open up a new clinic.
• 30:21
  Michael: Now you're gonna have to navigate the joys of two locations, having two teams, trying to get all of that working together.
• 30:30
  Michael: Where do you put your focus?
• 30:31
  Michael: It's gonna be really interesting to see how you handle that as well.
• 30:33
  Michael: Um I think ultimately, ultimately, the hard thing is always getting the patrons through the door.
• 30:38
  Michael: I don't think we're gonna have a problem there.
• 30:40
  Michael: Um, we certainly haven't had so far.
• 30:42
  Michael: So that makes life an awful lot easier, right?
• 30:45
  Michael: When when you've got the money flow.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 30:47
  Michael: Um it's just yeah, it's much harder if you're completely empty in the new place and then you're like, well, I've got nothing to fucking manage.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, the end there is that as well.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, it's um yeah, it's not gonna be easy, but we'll uh run with it and see how we go.
• 31:00
  Michael: Well, I'll tell you what we'll do.
• 31:02
  Michael: Let's finish down because I think it's been really good.
• 31:04
  Michael: I know you're you're busy with patience, but maybe we should do a catch up in like six months, eight months, and just see how you've got on.
• 31:11
  Michael: I'm pretty confident you're gonna you're gonna smash it.
• 31:14
  Michael: So yeah, I wish you all the best and lots of luck with that.
• 31:17
  Michael: Thanks again, you know, for coming on the podcast.
• 31:19
  Michael: Appreciate it very much.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you very much.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's been great.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Michael.