Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 18, Season 2: Holding onto Hope in the Midst of Pain

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Episode 18, Season 2: Holding onto Hope in the Midst of Pain · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the lovedg podcast. I'm your co host Ryina
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner, founder,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and CEO of the love Doc relationship coaching services. You
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: can find her at the lovedoc dot com and on
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: all social media platforms at doctor Sarah Hensley. Hey, Hey, hey, hey,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: let's go on now. Oh not much, so we'll get
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: right into it. Last week's episode was about fear yes,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: and so we thought it would only make sense to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: follow up that episode with an episode about hope.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. Hope is such a powerful construct, and it is
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: one of them what we call moderating factors associated with
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: some one who has had trauma, either going in the
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: direction of PTSD or what we call PTG or post
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: traumatic growth. So scientifically, hope is a moderating factor. So
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: it means that when someone has hope that they will overcome,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: they are much more likely to overcome and to land
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: in the space of post traumatic growth where they feel
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: that they have found meaning in their suffering and where
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: they found redemption in their suffering, and when they actually
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: feel like they've learned something that has helped them in
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: their suffering. So hope is a very powerful psychological construct,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: and they've looked at in women who have been sex trafficked.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: There's been some research on who sort of ends up
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: being able to get out and maintain sobriety, you know,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: especially if there was you know, forced drug use upon them,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: you know, where they became addicted, not by choice, right,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: but by you know, these people that have trafficked them,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: and how much hope they had in being able to
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: overcome the trauma and live a normal life. And there
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: was really clear effects of hope being the most influential
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: construct to predict whether or not these women would go
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: down a path of more addiction, more suffering, more you know,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: early death, or whether they would thrive and have normal
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: relationships and beat income out of addiction. And you know,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of wonderful programs, not enough, but a
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: lot of wonderful programs that exist for women who are
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: have been sex trafficked and they have been able to
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: find be you know, essentially taken out of trafficking and
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: brought to safety. And there's you know, homes and rehabilitation
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: centers for these women. We need so many more of
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: them because sex trafficking is such an awful humongous problem.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: We don't even realize how much is happening in the
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: United States under our noses, yeah, and our backyards.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: And so hope is very very powerful.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want to I want to dig deep
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: into like what you how you personally view hope, because
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: like I think about hope and I'm like, it's it
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: feels like like almost it's hard to conceptualize, right, Like
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: it could mean a lot of different things to a
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: lot of different people. And so I want to get
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: real granular and break it down for our listeners in
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: terms of, you know, really specific circumstances and really specific,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: specific hopeful outcomes.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: So I talked last week about the fact that we're
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: watching Boardwalk Empire, right, and in the show, not to
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: ruin it for anybody, but one of the main character's
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: daughters gets polio. It's set in the early nineteen twenties,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: so polio is very much an issue, right, And she
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: is basically told, you know, your kid's gonna be paralyzed,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: like there's no there's no reversing this, And she starts
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: to go to the Catholic church and steals from her
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: husband and gives them all this money and these priests
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: are kind of corrupt, and they're taking her money and saying,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, like the more you give, like maybe it'll
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: reverse or whatever. And so she has this hope for
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: a very very specific outcome that her daughter's paralysis will
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: be healed. Now, does God do miracles every day?
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Every single day?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: And I think that it's fine to think I believe
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: that God could work a miracle in this situation. But
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I think where hope becomes more powerful is I have
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: hope that I will come out of this a better
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: version of myself emotionally, mentally, maybe not physically. We can't
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: always control some things in our body can be permanent,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: but our spirit has unlimited, vast power to direct our lives.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: And so when I view hope, we may not get
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the outcome that we want, but can we have hope
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: that we will move through it and end up in
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: a place where we can live around it and live
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: with it and still have joy and still be able
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  Speaker 2: to experience life's greatness. There's a lot of wonderful things
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: about life. Life can really be hard and traumatic, and
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: there can be a lot of suffering, but there can
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: be a lot of beauty and a lot of joy.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: And I think about my former mother in law.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: She lost obviously her son, my ex husband, And I
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: don't know if I don't think she listens to my platform,
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  Speaker 2: because I think if she really did, she would probably
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: hate my guts. And I hope not because I try
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: not to throw her son under the bus. I just
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: try to speak my truth without demonizing him. Because he died,
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  Speaker 2: he paid, his debts were paid.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: In his death.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Every sin he ever had he died, like the debt
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: is paid, right, And so I see how much she
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: hurts because I can't imagine losing a child, like that's
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: the one thing I can't really truly conceptualize. And I
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: don't think it matters if your child's an adult or young.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: I think losing a child is losing a child. But
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I also see her just get to be this wonderful
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: grandmother to her daughter, her living child's children.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: And she's a.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Wonderful grandmother to my girls in so many ways. And
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  Speaker 2: I see her laugh, and I see her have joy
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: with them, and I see her going to their sporting
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: events and cheering for them. And I see, even though
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I know she carries this horrible heavy bird all the time, Yeah,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: she still has joy, you know, even people that have
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: gone through I.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Talk simate people the ultimate pain of losing a child.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I talk to people.
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  Speaker 2: It's probably not a day that I see clients, whether
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: that's group or individuals, that I don't meet someone who's
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: been sexually abused as a child. And I am thankful
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: that I did not go through that as a child.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: But it's a pain that I can't even really wrap
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: my head around.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 2: And when they disclose this to me, like my heart
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: just like it breaks in the moment, because I can't
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: imagine being violated when you are so innocent and so
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: susceptible to your nervous system trajectory just forever sort of
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: being changed into how you just would never be able
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: to feel safe in the world. And I mean that's
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: pretty much the common theme that I hear from sexual
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: abuse survivors is you just can't ever really believe that
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: anything or anyone in the world is safe.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Mom was proof of that. Yeah, she was sexually assaulted
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: when she was ten.
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  Speaker 3: I think that is the worst crime against humanity. It is, okay,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: deep breath.
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  Speaker 2: I will use my emotional processing tools when I get
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: out of here, But I'm gonna try to not snot
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: all over the microphone.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I've had an emotional week two.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and these people, some male, some female. It
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: happens to boys too. Absolutely, they still talk about how
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: they've had hope or what hope has done for them,
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  Speaker 2: especially when they didn't have a lot of support or tools.
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  Speaker 2: Because most of the people that had been sexually abused
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: and then come to see me, their parents either couldn't
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: face it so they just never spoke about it again
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: and didn't get their children any help or any therapy,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: or their parents didn't believe them, or you know.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Or they could never tell their parents.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Or they can never tell their parents.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: For as a mom, she could just never tell her parents.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: You know, a variety of reasons.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe it happened within the home and the mother, you know,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: happened my father and mother just refused to believe it,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: took dad's side, and then the abuse continued. I mean,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: there's some horrific things. And that's why, you know, I
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: have in some ways reduced my individual coaching load, not
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: just because I don't get to help as many people,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: but because it is a very emotionally taxing, very thing
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: to do. It is beautiful work, but it is heavy work,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: and a lot of it is very very heavy. And
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I have to hold people's heaviest traumas very delicately and
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: with a lot of love and compassion and support and
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: being as empathetic as I am as a true fearful avoidant,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Like I can feel it in my body right, and I.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Have to be able to work through that.
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  Speaker 2: But what I've noticed is that the people who talk
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: about that they have hope, well, you know, I always
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: had hope that I would be okay, and I have
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: made and a lot of them have made a really
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: wonderful life for themselves. Now they have attachment trauma that's
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: interfering in their relationship. Yeah, but a lot of these
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: people are extremely successful. They have raised amazing kids who
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: they then were able to protect right, And they say
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: that was sort of like my legacy, Like I was
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: never going to let this happen to my kids, you know,
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  Speaker 2: when I was going to teach them about body safety,
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  Speaker 2: and I was going to teach them about how they
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: needed to speak up if anybody tried to ever be
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: inappropriate with them. And they've had a lot of healing
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: through their own children. And watching their own children thrive
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: and grow and not experience what they did, and just
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: how powerful hope was for them in their lives. And
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: even if they're still having difficulty now, they've still been
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: able to function and even and in some ways create
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of meaning out of their lives from the suffering.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: That's what I was going to I feel like hope
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: is seeing the beauty in even the worst of circumstances.
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  Speaker 1: It's seeing the silver lining even when the silver lining
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: hasn't happened yet.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, it's saying, you know, but it can come. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: And hope really aligns with faith.
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  Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna ask. That was gonna be
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: My next question was, like, what's the difference between hope
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: and faith in your opinion?
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  Speaker 2: I think, you know, Faith to me is so much
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: about salvation, which is the hope of what is better
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: to come right. I mean, I believe heaven is full glory.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I believe in that wholeheartedly. I believe that to be
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: And so no matter what happens to me in this life,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: there will be a day in which I am glorified.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: And so that obviously gives me hope. I think that
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: for me, faith is much more about this salvation and
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: the presence of God through our suffering, where I think
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: cope is a little bit more outcome based in this life,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: right Like faith is like, okay, well, even if I suffer,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: God is with me, and God understands suffering. He suffered
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: and died on the cross, So yes, that they are intertwined.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: But I think hope is more about the reality on
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: this earth and the fact that even through suffering there
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: could be so much beauty and thriving and redemption and
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: growth and.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: Just this life that you.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Might not even be able to know what's coming. Yet.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I tell people like, if you knew me five years ago,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: when I was going through when I was sick with
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: vestibular migraine and my attachments were all ripped away from me,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: and my mom was so sick and we thought she
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: was going to die, and you know, my father, my
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: kids died, and my kids were grieving and.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Actually painting a picture for y'all if you want me to, Yeah,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll paint a picture. I can give it
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: an actual example, and I don't know if I've given
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: it before. On the pod but I remember one day
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: in particular, and this was like you were in the
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: throes of it, and I was, you know, I was
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: struggling with knowing how to deal with it and and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: being your friend. I don't I can say, you know
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: with utmost certainty that at that time I don't think
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I had the proper tools to know how to not
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: necessarily comfort you. I think I did my best to
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: comfort you, but to really get you through it. And
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I made plenty of mistakes, but it was during COVID.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: So right on top of it.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: It was right in the throws and.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Locked down.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I remember, so we were all working
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: from home, and I'm going to be just really transparent, honest.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: So I was adjusting to working at home, and I
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: remember you showed up at the house like randomly, and
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I was like in the throes of work. And I mean,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: at that time, I think every person wanted to scream
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: into a pillow, Like every single day, I just wanted
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: to like scream into a pillow or pull a forest
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: gump and take off running and never stop. That's the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: only way I can describe it. So I remember you
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: showing up at the house and when I opened the door.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I was frustrated, but you were in shambles. You were
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: shaking like a leaf from I mean your head to
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: your toes and like you. I don't remember exactly what
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: you said to me, but it was very obvious now
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: looking back at that moment, like you were on the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: verge of a nervous breakdown.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: And oh, I was in it.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: It was it. It gets me emotional thinking about it
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: because it gets me emotional because so much of me
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: didn't have the capacity. I wanted so badly to hold
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the space and have empathy and sympathy because I did.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I'd been there, you know, I had. I had seen
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: my rock bottom looked differently than yours, but I had
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: been there where I sort of felt all alone and
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't know where to turn, and I was just like,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: where do I go? And I knew that that's where
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: you were in that moment, and I and I didn't
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: have the answers for you, and it was it was heartbreaking.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: It was heartbreaking for me to watch, and it was
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: heartbreaking knowing that that I was, I was at capacity
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: right like I had hit my threshold with what I
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: was able to give to you. And it sucked and
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: It sucked on a lot of levels for me too,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: because it was at that time that I didn't do
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: everything right, but I sort of kind of, you know,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: distanced myself from you and which I knew was probably
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: the last thing that you needed. But in hindsight, it
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: was also kind of what you needed, right because I
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: was of your last attachment at that point that kind
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: of pushed you to this place of like, Okay, all
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I have now is my faith. All I have now
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: is God, and that's where I'll turn, you know, And
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: that's what happens, right, That's that's what happens to a
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: lot of people. I think that you know, Doc can
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: attest to this. I can attest to this in my
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: own journey of when I saw my rock bottom is
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that I honestly felt all alone and the only thing
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: that I had was hope and God.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had no hope for a really long time.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: And when I started to have hope, it's when everything changed.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Everything changed, you know.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: It was.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, I wanted to die. I wanted to die
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: so bad. I wanted to commit suicide so bad, but
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I couldn't leave my girls.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I remember that day too. That was a phone call
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: you called me and you were like, I'm going to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you said the words I'm going
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to kill myself. And again I can't remember word for
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: word what I said, but I felt I felt really helpless,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: and God, it gets me so emotional I think about it,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: because anyone you love, you know, when you see them
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: going through that, and again like i'd been there, you know,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: i'd been there before. I remember when I was in
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: my rock bottom calling my dad and saying, you know,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I want to die, you know, I don't want to
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: live anymore because I felt like everything had been stripped
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: away from me, you know. But it's in those moments
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: that I think God sends us the right people. And
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I think God knew that I was at capacity, and
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: it's one reason why you sent you Ashley.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Ashley changed, Ashley is and I don't even get
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: to talk to Ashley anymore, which really sucks, like.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: A million babies, and she doesn't. She just Whi's good
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: for her.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I love a lot of active trauma and God bless her.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: And she loves she loves babies. She just loves having
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: babies and raising her babies. And she's in a really
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: beautiful marriage. And she lives on this gigantic farm and.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Actually was a beacon of hope for you though.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: She was everything. Yeah, she was everything, but it wasn't her.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: It was God through her. And she admits that, right, Yeah,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: like I'm just the one. I was just the vessel,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: like this is God.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: And I had people like that in my life too
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: when I was at rock bottom. You know that I've
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: talked about before and Darla heflin, Hey, Darla, I miss you.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Shout out to you because you were you were sort
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of my I want to have Ashley on the pod.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: She did, because you will never find someone as faithful
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: as Ashley to the Lord. Everything in her life is
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: about God. Everything in her life is glory to God.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Everything she does is for God. And when you see
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: somebody that is so undeniably faithful and there, you can't
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: rip it away from her even for a second.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: You can't.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: No, Well, she's very authentic and so when you when
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: you're around her, and I've only been around her, you know,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: maybe a handful of times you look at somebody like
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: that and you're like, I want that.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I want that, I want That's how I thought the journey.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I was like I want that. Yeah, I want that.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I want that unshakable faith.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: I want that. What if is even if I want that?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: And she just she just kept saying, you have to
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: have hope, you have to have faith, you have to
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: have hope. And for me, as somebody who I would
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: consider myself, at least previously, not really so much anymore,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: a very large pessimist, a very defensive pessimist. I was
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: always very afraid of disappointment. I was raised to not
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: have hope. I was raised to expect the worst because
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: then you wouldn't be disappointed. Keep your standards low so
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: then you won't be disappointed. But really, when you think about.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: The law of attraction, that is the way to breathe.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And I've noticed, like my parents, I mean, anything bad
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: that could happen to them happened to them, honestly, And
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: you know, there's just they were so negative and so
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: everything was awful, everything was a problem this and that,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and you know it was just a transformation of like,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I can't be scared of disappointment. Again, there's fear, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: so what if I'm disappointed? I would rather have lived
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: my life in hope and feel the chemical reactions in
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: my body of positivity and of hope and feel happy
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: and feel content and deal with the disappointment if it
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: comes right then to stay in fear so that I
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: can avoid disappointment because then everything's ruined.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: My whole outlook on faith has been that same way
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: where I've said, I've often said to people or non believers, like,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you rather just believe because in believing the outcome
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: is so much better their life?
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Don't live right, right?
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Because what are you What are you losing by not believing?
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: You're losing all of the beauty that faith gives you,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: which is so much hope, you know. And it's like,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I would rather live my life believing in my heart
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: of heart down to every cell in my body that
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: we serve a good and loving guy and that we
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: go to heaven, and that we go to heaven and
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: we're glorified when we die because it makes earth such
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: more of a pleasant experience. And then find out that
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: At the end exactly right, then it won't matter anyway.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: So Okay, everything is just eventual continual darkness.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, So I was wrong all the time. Yeah, Earth
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: was a great time. Yeah, and Earth was survivable then.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like if if we are wrong at the end,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it'll sort of be like what it felt like before
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: we were born.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: It was a loss.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: No loss, no loss, but there's a real loss of
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: not having that face exactly. There's a real loss, a big,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the ultimate, the ultimate loss. And I mean from the
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Christian point, Hell is not this fiery place, like the
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Bible doesn't talk about Hell as this fiery place where
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Satan lives. Hell has spoken about as eternal separation from God.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: It's like, we get this whole lifetime to say God,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: don't leave me. We get the entire lifetime, and then
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: we always get And maybe I've discussed this before. I
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: think I have, so I apologize if you've heard this
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: in an earlier episode, but it was probably so long ago.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe it'll help our new listeners. There's one guy I
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: don't know who he was, made a TikTok series about like, well,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: if we really serve a loving God, why would he
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: send us to Hell? And he's like, well, if you
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: saw a beautiful mansion on a hillside and you didn't
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: know these people from Adam, and you just walked up
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: to their door and you're like knocking on the door
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: and you're like, hey, I'd like to live in your house.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Do you think they would invite you in and be like, okay,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: well I don't even know who you are. But why
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: do we expect to do that to God? Like if
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: God is with us every single day begging, and he's begging.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: God is always trying to reach you, but you can't
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: hear him. When you're listening to the voice of the enemy,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: you can't hear him. And so if you are blocking
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: him out and you are using your free will to
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: say I absolutely turn away from you. I don't want
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: you with me. If you are literally saying to God,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I don't want you here. He gave us free will,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: and he gave us a choice to choose him or not,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: and he can't mess with that because that was his
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: gift to us. You don't have to. I'm not forcing
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: you to love me. I'm not forcing you to live
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: with me in my house. You can choose to not
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: live with me, but I will spend a lifetime trying
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: to convince you to do that. But if you use
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: all of your free will, which I cannot interrupt, to
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: choose to not live with me at the end of
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: your life, I will separate from you because that was
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: your choice. And so eternal separation from God is what
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: hell is if you really look at it biblically, and
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: that means we don't even know what that would really be,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Like who knows. That would be eternal torment and torture.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: It would be only the devil's voice. It would be
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: no hope, it would be no faith, it would be
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: no God attitude, it will be no contentment, it would
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: be eternal suffering.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: This sounds way.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I'm hesitant to say what I'm about to too scary
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: for me because I don't know, you know, like I
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: have no idea and I don't I personally don't believe
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: in reincarnation. I don't think it's I don't either. But
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: at the same time, like I think that you know, spirituality,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: our relationship with God, our relationship with higher Being, whatever
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that may be for you, mine personally is God and
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. Like it's a journey, and I think like
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: questioning is okay because it's what leads you to God.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Your questions.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: God can handle your doubt. God can handle your questions.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: God can handle when you turn away from Him for
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: a while, but ultimately God wants you to come back
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: to him, Yes, because he has so much to offer.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: It's not because he's this narcissistic being that's like, you
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: must worship me or you are damn to hell. No,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: God is just like, but I have so much to
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: give you. I have so much love for you. I
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: have so much for your spirit that can soothe you
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: and heal you and make you whole and make you
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: complete that no other human on this earth can do.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: Only I can do it. And that's why.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I don't believe in reincarnation, because reincarnation is just human suffering,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: like over and over and over again. And that's not
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the type of God we have. And so it's like,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: so when I try to conceptualize hell right like I don't,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: it's not of God.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: It isn't right.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: So you can't. You can't blame God for hell.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: No, you can't blame God for help. You blame you
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: blame yourself for hell because you chose to deny God.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: And God says, ultimately, I will honor your choice of
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: free will, which I cannot interrupt. And I will not
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: interrupt because I will not make anybody. I will not
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: force you to come live in my house.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you start to question, like and I
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: say question, but I really just mean like being curious.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: And and you know, my my own journey has taken
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: so many twists and turns, and and you know, Josh
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: sometimes gets fascinated when I talk about the Holy Spirit.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And you know, until you've experienced the Holy Spirit, it
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: is otherworldly, other you can't And again, I'll say it again,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: it's hard to conceptualize, it's hard to put into words
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: what it feels like. But I can say with utmost certainty,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent, with every cell in my being, that
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I have felt the Holy Spirit and I have heard
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: God's voice, and not everyone. Josh is always like, wow,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you're so lucky. But I'm like, no, it's available to
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: you too. You just have to ask for it.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: You just have to open yourself to it, and you
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: have to get the doubt and unbelief out, and you
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: have to honestly a little bit. Maybe there's too much
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: of the devil's voice in your brain right, because the
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: devil's voice drowns out God's voice if you allow it to.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: We have free will to turn towards it or away
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: from it. That's that's the thing, right, The devil doesn't
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: just capture you and like you have no control to
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: get out of the day like grips. Like, No, you
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: can use your free will to turn away from the
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: devil's grips by not participating in the principalities of fear
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: and rejection and accusation and unlovingness and self pity and
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: jealousy and envy and pride and offense and we could
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: go on and on and on. But all of the
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: things that are not of God, you can choose to
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: not participate, right, And I know that it feels like
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: you can't choose, And that was always my dilemma. I
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: can't help the thoughts I have. I can't help that
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: I feel this way. Yes I could, And when I
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: learned that I actually could choose, and I learned and
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: now I get to teach that to everybody, how to choose. Yeah,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And of course you know, I don't make my programs
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: about God. I have modules and things about God and
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Christian faith if you want to take that route, So
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I kind of.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Have like a dual route.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: You can choose the secular psychological route, or you can
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: choose the faith based.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: You're able to talk about the testimony from your clients yesterday,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: though I mean obviously without saying their names, because I
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: thought that that was we've had some really beautiful testimonies
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: this week, or just some beautiful men guys that have
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: given us personally hope. My gosh, but let's we'll share
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: some with you. Guys.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: I had a couple.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: And honestly, when I met this couple, I thought, there
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: is there's no hope. This is so dysfunctional, so abusive,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: so bad, so there's been so much damage done in
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: this marriage. There's just no way. But both of them
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: looked at me and they said, we want it, and
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: we've brought God into our lives and we believe that
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: God can turn this around for us. And I was like, well, okay,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: then then I'm here with you, because I don't think
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: without God there was any hope for them. There would
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: be no There's not. All the psychology in the world,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: all the tools in the world, could not undo the damage.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: And when I say there's been like serious damage in
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: this relationship, serious damage that most people wouldn't be able
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: to ever recover from.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I said, okay, let's do this.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: So they did the group, and the group was wonderful
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: for them, and it was a great foundation. And then
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I did a few individuals with both of them, and
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: then they actually cut their last session thirty minutes short
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: and banked what was supposed to be their last session
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: because they're like, we don't need it. Our marriage has
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent transformed. We are both fundamentally completely different people.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: We are insanely happy. We meet each other's needs beautifully,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Like we just honestly have no complaints, and we feel
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: like we are now equipped that if anything changes or
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: we backslide, that you know, we.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Can come back to you.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: We can come back to you and shore things up.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: But we're totally different people and we have a totally
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: different marriage.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Do they have children.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: They have eight children, a bunch that are adopted and
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: several that are biological.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: It just made I'm crying because it makes me so happy,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: you know, like I hear a story that and I'm like,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Like that's what it's all about.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: And now the trajectory of their kids' lives going to
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: look like.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and it changes like it changes generational.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: It's generational. But they came and they said we have hope.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: And honestly, after they both told me everything that they
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: had done in the marriage and every place, everything that
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: had happened, I mean, my honest to goodness first thought was,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: there's no way.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: If you've ever wanted to pick my brain for free,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I am going to give you an opportunity to do that.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I am hosting a free webinar on September twenty fifth
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: at five pm Eastern Time. I am here to connect
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: with my audience over zoom and I'm so excited for
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: you to be there, so you can actually sign up
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: for that webinar at courses dot thelovedoc dot com slash webinar,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: and I hope to see you there and I will
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: answer all of your burning questions about love and relationships. Well.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I want to share too, just because I think we
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: share these things with you one to give you hope,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: but it gives us hope too, for sure. But we
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: got a message this week that just really touched my heart.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: It's so so much, but she says, Hello, your podcast
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: has had a wonderful impact on my life, and I
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: feel unspeakably lucky to have stumbled upon it earlier this year.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Hearing your voices has helped me cope with any sense
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: of sadness or loneliness or fear I've experienced after the
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: birth of my first daughter. The information you're sharing has
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: become invaluable to me, and it's helped me to look
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: inward as I heal my attachment wounds, gain understanding and
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: compassion for my mother, parent confidently, and strengthen my already
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: solid relationship with my dare I essay born secure unicorn husband.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I get it, girl. This type of growth was the
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: last thing I expected to experience in my postpartum time,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: and I'm so very grateful to you for making your
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: knowledge available to all. I think you both through a
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: beautiful job conveying your message. I'd like you to know
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: that I glean a lot of helpful information from the
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: personal stories that you share. These stories also portray you
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: as real, relatable people who know what you're talking about.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: This part really really touched me, Reina. I personally love
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: to hear your yeahs and uh huhs, and I think
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: you have a knack for leading the conversation where it
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: needs to go. Your comforting tone brings to mind a
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: caramel macchiato on a cold rainy morning. That might be
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: the best compliment I've ever gott like, that's the I
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: told my husband Josh yesterday. I was like, that's the
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: best compliment I've ever gotten in my life. And doctor Hensley,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I'm always impressed by how clearly you can explain complex
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: psychological mechanisms to the lay person without watering it down
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: too much. The way you both glorify God is beautiful
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: and has motivated me to start attending church for the
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: first time. Yes, I live, Yes, So thank you both
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: rereading your knowledge and love so beautifully God.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Guys.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I was when I read that yesterday I cried too,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: or the day before yesterday, whenever it was I was
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: moved to tears. I've moved to tears now and I
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: could read it. I have read it so many times
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: since that the other day, and I I'm just honestly,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I'm just so grateful. I'm so grateful, and it gives
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: me hope to keep going, to keep going when stuff
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: gets hard, because this is stressful, this business, it's stressful stress.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: We have stress that you know, and the people you
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: know our personal struggles you know, with this year and
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: we've both had people from our pasts that have tried
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: to destroy us and destroy our our mission and our success,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and it's been sometimes disheartening and hard. And then you know,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: just the the ebb and flow and the ins and
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: outs of just trying to run a business is it's
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: it's and there's a lot of pressure. But oh my gosh,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: it's messages like that that I'm like, I will not stop.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: We won't give up.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: The mission must go on no matter what because it's
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: God's mission. And for all the people that stop talking
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: about God, no no, no, we want we might not
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: be for you, and that is okay.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is okay.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: If you don't want to hear about God. And not
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: every episode is about God. I mean, I know we've
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: kind of had two back to back that were but
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: you know, God is everything in my life everything to me.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: It is everything, everything I do, everything I have, everything
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I see in my future. There is nowhere that God
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: does not exist in my life. And so how can
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I be my authentic self and not talk about God?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And of course in my coaching practice, I go with
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: the secular psychological perspective, but I always say in my groups,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: if anybody wants me to share the faith based perspective.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Please speak up, and I will and the other.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: People then just have to go through a handful of
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: minutes of tuning out, and you know.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: We might start doing some separate groups.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: We have thought about that where you thought about, like.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: You're Christian based, you know, people who want to have
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the more Christian based view, and then just groups that
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: are more secular. Yes, actually a really good idea.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, I think that that might be a really
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: wonderful idea, just because there are people where it's not
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: their jam. And listen, I'm not here to pressure you God.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I trust God to work in your life in any
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: way he sees fit.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I Am not going to try to be God and
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: force God upon you. I trust God enough to know
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: that he's working in your life. And I think that's
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: where hope can really come in. Where if you feel
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: like you haven't really been able to meet God, He's
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: there and you just wait, right, be just maybe just
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: be open to it.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Just maybe just kind.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Of feel like just beating with curiosity.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: Just be like, hey, God, if you're there, show.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Me like a child, like it's not that serious. It
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't have to be that serious.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Right, And here's the thing too.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Here's what people I think people what holds people up
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: from hope and in what God can offer them in
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: terms of hope and of faith. One, they're like me.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: They're afraid of They were afraid of disappointment. So it's like,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: if I just don't believe that something good will happen
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: to me, if I just think about all the things
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: that could go wrong, then maybe I won't be disappointed.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Screw disappointment. Two, you don't have to be perfect.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: I curse.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I have, you know, sin in my life? Do I
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: try to? I tried to stick with what God convicts
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: me of. I tried to stick with what is clear
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: in scripture and what God convicts my heart of. For example,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I love Taylor Swift. Okay, I'm gonna admit it. I
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: have gone on a journey of liking her and not
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: liking her because when some of the witchy stuff kind
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: of came out of like in the eras tourn stuff,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I was very.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Like, oh, witch Crab's not good, y'all.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: But I really prayed about it because man, she has
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: some bangers, okay. And speaking of hope, her story of
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: just getting engaged to Travis is like this girl has
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: had so much heartbreak, She's been publicly shamed, They've tried
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: to cancel her a bajillion times. She's you know, was
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: broken hearted when she started the Aras tour. I don't
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: even know how a human being could do what she
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: did on the Aras tour, with the stamina and the
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: energy and the high heels and everything she had to do,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: and then she gets this beautiful sort of ending right
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: where she's engaged. And I listened to them on the
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: New Heights podcast, and I take back what I said
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: about Travis in the beginning. I thought he had some
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: red flags, and maybe he did, but maybe he's worked
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: through them, and maybe Taylor has helped him identify some
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: of those parts of himself that needed some growth. And
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: what I saw in the podcast was just such organical
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: love and such two people lifting each other so up
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: so much that it didn't, in any way, shape or
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: form come across as fake to me. And I have
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: a great BS reader. I have a great BS reader,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: and it seemed so authentic, and so I take back
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: any time where I may have mentioned that I thought
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Travis could have some potential redblogs like screaming I'm not
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: gonna people like I don't like he gave some vibes
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: from the beginning, but I've really seen that kind of
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: drop off, you know, like drop off and maybe guess
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: what love does that? Yeah, like secure love does that.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Secure love can shape you.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: And I used to do some real do things too too,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: oh for sure, terrible things, and I totally kind.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Of forget where I was.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Going for Well, you were just talking about host in
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: the fact that she's thirty five. She's thirty five and
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: engaged and finding her happy ending.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Finding her happy ending, and so it's available to everyone.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: And speaking of like being a Christian, I think I'm
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: circling back to my original point now finally, is when
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: I ask God, like, do I need to stop listening
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: to Taylor Swift because she has this kind of white
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: witchy part in her music and some of her music,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: And I said, God, I want to honor you, God,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I want to do right by you always, So convict
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: me in my heart if this is wrong and I
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: need to turn away from this music, convict me. And
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I like rap music too, I do, and so like,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I've prayed so hard about that, and what I finally
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: was able to hear in the voice of God was Listen,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you are called to be in the world, not of
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: the world exactly. You do not have to endorse every
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: single thing the woman does, yeah, to reject her.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: And you don't have to. Again, you don't have to
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: make it that serious.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Because you would reject every human on the planet if
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: that were the case.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't have to be that serious to where
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you view everything as a conviction because somebody.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so many people are like, well, I'm so I
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: fall so short, like being Christians are too hard.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: We all do.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: That's why Jesus died, right, And that's what God tries
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: to tell you is like my standards perfection, nobody on
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: earth will ever meet it. So that's why I sent
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: my son to die so that you are free and
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I and trust God to convict you personally of what
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: you need to be convicted of. Not all of us
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: are going to be convicted about the same things.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Well, and then what's so beautiful and comes of that
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: is humility. And humility is just a beautiful gift. It's
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: such a beautiful gift. And humble folks. Yeah, and humanity
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: is you know the result of faith and hope, you know,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: and and conviction within yourself and grace within yourself. But
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: mostly because of God's grace, we are able to stay humble.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: So what God told me that means is like, well,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: don't you go start practicing any kind of witchcraft.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Now you know how I feel about that.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: But if you rejected someone based on their sin, you
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: would reject every person on the planet. So you are
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: called to be in the world, world, not of the world.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I love that. So I think that's a great place
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: to wrap up. And Taylor, we do love you.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I want to meet you so bad, Taylor.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe, like I have this, I'm just.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Dream that maybe she's like a she's like a creeper.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe she listens to the Love Doc podcast. I mean,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: we've got a big audience, right, I hit three million
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: ear drums a month across platforms. Yeah, you never know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: or more than three million ear drums, but just three
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: million followers right across platforms.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: So if you are listening, Taylor, we love I love.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: You, I love you, I love you. Congrat I will
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: be cool if I meet you, I will be cool.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: I promise it will be so cool.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Be cool. I'll be there with you and I'll be
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: cool because I love you.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: I love you already pre ordered Life of a show Girl.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait to hear the new album, and
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: I'm super excited for you. Congrats, I congratulate you already
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: deserve that.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: You are so deserving of everything, and everybody that ever
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: hated on you, they can go.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: The haters are going to hate Jump in a lake. Yeah,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: the haters are going to you even wrote a song
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: about it. So congratulations. I think you and I both
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: are a testament to hope because I didn't get engaged
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: until I was forty and married, so and I'd never
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: been married before that. And it just goes to show
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: that if you, uh, you hold out hope and you
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: don't settle.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Don't settle, and she didn't settle, that's right.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: You don't settle, you hold out hope, you have faith,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: then the right things come into your life.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: I want to repeat Meredith Steele, She's funny on TikTok.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: She did this, TikTok was so funny. She goes Taylor
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Swift gets.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: To be small girl. She has a big boy, a
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: big boy to hold her up. She's not the monster
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: on the hill. She's a small girl. It's like, I
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: think Taylor's like your size. Yeah, She's like yeah yeah, And.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Travis Kelsey is bigger, so she gets to be small girls, small.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Girls, big boy. That's how I feel with you, know,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I love being small. You really are a small girl.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: But anyway, so I think this is also a great
• 42:54
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