Latest / Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint / Building a High-Performing Sales Team in Nigeria: Hiring, Compensation, and Enablement
Transcript
- 0:01Hello and welcome to the show. It's a lovely Thursday morning
- 0:06in Abuja over here and this is an out and about episode.
- 0:09So they're going to be some, you know, some sounds here and
- 0:13there. So let's get straight down to
- 0:14business. Today's question is also similar
- 0:17to one that I've tackled in the past and that is on how to build
- 0:20a reliable and productive sales team in Nigeria.
- 0:25Now, just in case the next couple of questions, you know,
- 0:30have this kind of slant, you know how to do XYZ in Nigeria.
- 0:35I guess I might as well just go ahead and say it now that you'll
- 0:37find that sales principles, sales theory, sales practice,
- 0:41sales, whatever is universal. So the question is just a matter
- 0:44of in what order are you going to apply these principles or
- 0:48these tactics? But you'll find that essentially
- 0:50how to build a reliable and productive sales team in Nigeria
- 0:54is going to be the same as how to do it in Ghana or how to do
- 0:57it in Australia or how to do it in Afghanistan.
- 1:01It's just that because of cultural differences and let's
- 1:06say what else cultural differences, business climate,
- 1:10because of the reality on ground, you have to do it
- 1:13through do some things in a different order in Afghanistan
- 1:16than how you might do in Nigeria or in Ghana, just off the top of
- 1:20my head. OK, well, I haven't been to
- 1:22Afghanistan, so this is me just guessing, riffing off of movies.
- 1:25I get the impression that some of those Middle Eastern
- 1:27countries, you know, countries that are close to, you know,
- 1:32Arabia and the Orient. My assumption is that, you know,
- 1:36for Niger, we do a lot of rapport building and small talk.
- 1:41I'm assuming that in those climb, those kinds of climbs,
- 1:44that this whole sort of thing is going to be even more important.
- 1:47You know, the whole rapport building, sourcing people out,
- 1:50figuring out who they are, where they're from and all these sort
- 1:54of thing. So you find that the the answer
- 1:57is always going to be the same. The difference is just going to
- 2:00be in which order are you going to apply the principle and what
- 2:04principles are you going to stress over and beyond others.
- 2:08So how to build a reliable and productive sales team in
- 2:11Nigeria? We tackled some of that
- 2:13yesterday when I spoke about the importance of hiring right,
- 2:17hiring the right people in the 1st place.
- 2:20So this your first time of listening to the podcast.
- 2:21Then when you're done listening to this, skip back listen to
- 2:25yesterday's episode where we spoke about the importance of
- 2:29industry knowledge, sales skills and coach ability or the ability
- 2:33of somebody to hear what? Those were the three things.
- 2:39OK, I can't remember what else I spoke about yesterday, Biden.
- 2:42I know that I mentioned those 3 for sure when it came when it
- 2:45comes to hiring the right people, industry knowledge,
- 2:47sales skills, and the fact that the person is coachable.
- 2:51So those are the things you have to pay attention to to make sure
- 2:53that you hireright in the 1st place.
- 2:56So this is your first time listening to the show.
- 2:58You have a sales team. You're thinking of putting
- 3:00together a sales team and that's why you're listening to an
- 3:04episode like this. When you're done, skip back to
- 3:06the other episode. There's some more there's some
- 3:10more Nuggets for you in the previous episode.
- 3:12So you can take that on board. Then I have done even older
- 3:15episodes. I think right now we're over 800
- 3:18and OK, I have to check, but I think we're now over 800
- 3:22episodes. So I've done even older podcast
- 3:26episodes on this and that's the issue of compensation.
- 3:29Now I, there is this whole debate.
- 3:32I'm not going to get into it about whether you should sales
- 3:35people should have variable compensation or fixed salary.
- 3:38Now this is the idea. There's some people that are
- 3:40going to say sales are money motivated people.
- 3:43So therefore if you're going to pay everybody else, the cleaner,
- 3:47the general manager, the finance person, the security guard, if
- 3:50you're going to give them a fixed salary like OK, or guard
- 3:53manager, you come to work every day, your salary is 150 K.
- 3:56That's why I'm paying you. For those people who favor
- 3:59viable compensation theories, then what you're going to do is
- 4:02you're going to say, look, orga sales person or Madam sales
- 4:05person, this is how I'm going to pay you.
- 4:08Yes, orga manager and everybody, I'm paying 150K.
- 4:12But for you, I'm going to pay you 50K base salary every month.
- 4:17And then for every, you know, one M that you bring or for
- 4:21every 200,000 that you bring or whatever, this is your
- 4:24percentage and blah, blah, blah. So the theory being that the
- 4:30person will be motivated to sell more so the person can take the
- 4:3450K base salary. And then if the person is able
- 4:37to bring in, you know, 2,000,000 naira in business to you a
- 4:41month. And what you guys agreed was
- 4:43that for, you know, everything above 100K, they're getting 10%
- 4:47then 2,000,010% on 2,000,000. Is, is that 200 grand?
- 4:54OK? My guess is that that's 200
- 4:56grand if I got the math wrong. Guys, don't be angry with me.
- 4:59I I studied law so I'm not a math person.
- 5:02Well, there's no excuse because my wife studied law as well, but
- 5:04she's currently writing CFAS, almost done with CFAS level 2.
- 5:10So I guess it's a myth that people who study law are not
- 5:14supposed to be good at math. Because apart from my wife, I
- 5:17also know a couple of other people who have legal
- 5:21backgrounds who are not just doing CFA that's chattered
- 5:25financial analyst, but who are also doing MBA in finance and
- 5:30things of that nature. So where was I?
- 5:34OK, yeah, So that's the idea behind variable composition.
- 5:36Now look, August salesman or August sales woman, your base
- 5:39every month I'm giving you is 100K.
- 5:41If you're able to bring me business over 100 and K, you're
- 5:44taking 10 per 100K, you're taking 10%.
- 5:46So if you bring 2 Miller like how much I'm giving you is 200
- 5:51grand and then so on and so forth.
- 5:53Now yes some of you are going to say OK, won't that lead to some
- 5:56unequitable hierarchies within the business because general
- 6:00manager is earning 150K flat. But then if Madam salesperson
- 6:05takes 100K fixed salary and then viable compensation, she earns
- 6:10another 200. So August salesperson is now
- 6:13earning, she has now earned 300K in a month while her orga has
- 6:18only earned 150K. Well, it's just, it's just the
- 6:22nature of the industry. So that happens, it happens all
- 6:24the time in sales. It is typical that whoever is
- 6:29the supervisor is the person who is earning the least of the
- 6:32sales team because the supervisor can't go out and
- 6:35hustle because his job is to stay and to manage everybody
- 6:38else. So typically the team does earn
- 6:41more than the more than orga manager, orga supervisor or you
- 6:47know, whatever it is that you call them within your own
- 6:49organization. So that's the idea behind
- 6:51variable compensation. There is also an extreme above
- 6:54variable compensation, which is to say put the sales team only
- 6:57on Commission. So January 1st starts, I'm not
- 7:01giving you any salary, go ahead and sell whatever it is that you
- 7:05capture above 100K, we give you 10%.
- 7:07If you capture anything above 500 K, we now increase that to
- 7:1020%. If you capture anything beyond
- 7:12this, we increase it to, you know, whatever.
- 7:15So you can see the variable component there, how it is
- 7:18staged. And you know, in this case you
- 7:20don't order me a fixed salary. And then there are people on the
- 7:24other end who say, you know what, just pay everybody a a
- 7:27fixed salary. So, you know, cooling account is
- 7:30being paid 150 K. So all the sales staff,
- 7:33everybody is just going to get 150K.
- 7:34You know, regardless of whether you bring in the three M or
- 7:37whether you bring in 50,000, everybody gets paid the same.
- 7:42So I'm not going to go into all the theories which one is
- 7:45better, which one should you do 'cause these things have to be
- 7:47applied on a case by case basis. But I just want you to go, you
- 7:52guys to know that part of building a reliable and
- 7:54productive sales team means that you need to have some sort of
- 7:58answer when it comes to this compensation thing.
- 8:00You have to have thought it out. I would say the most important
- 8:05thing on the compensation front is not really whether it's
- 8:08variable or not or fixed or not, but most important thing is pay
- 8:12as and when it is due. Don't break your promises.
- 8:16That is the thing that breaks the morale of sales people.
- 8:19If you tell sales people that look 23rd of every month, your
- 8:22account to be credited 23rd of every month, whether it was
- 8:26variable compensation or fixed salary credit, the account sales
- 8:30can be sales is more stressful than office work, than desk
- 8:37work. So it's really, really
- 8:39demotivating when you run out, you hustle, you take Orkada,
- 8:43you, you're in a hot sun, you take bolts, you do this, you do
- 8:47that. You're out of pocket, you're
- 8:48stressed out. Customers are shouting at you.
- 8:50You're you know the whole thing. And then Orga promised that
- 8:55he'll pay by 23rd, 23rd reach nothing. 27th reach nothing. 2nd
- 9:02of next month reach you now credit the account.
- 9:05It it does it, it is not good for it's not good for
- 9:09motivation. So if you told them 23rd every
- 9:12every month your account be credited, whether it's viable or
- 9:15whether it's fixed, then credit on the 23rd you start breaking
- 9:18your promises. You are messing with their
- 9:19motivation. Then the final leg of how to
- 9:23build a reliable and productive sales team in Nigeria.
- 9:25Remember we've looked at how to hireright that's what we did
- 9:29yesterday higher right in the 1st place, looking at industry
- 9:32knowledge, sales skills and coachability.
- 9:34Today I spent the last 8 minutes talking about compensation and
- 9:40whether it's variable or fixed. But bottom line is pay.
- 9:42When do you don't break your promises?
- 9:44Now the third leg is sales enablement.
- 9:47Sales enablement is that function where you, how will I
- 9:51explain it enablement. Well, you guys understand now
- 9:54how you enable something. So if you're going to do sales
- 9:57enablement, that's basically training and coaching to help
- 9:59them do their job better. It's a sales management to make
- 10:02sure that they have some direction because, you know,
- 10:07we're human beings and even the most disciplined person, whether
- 10:10you're a monk or a ninja or a salesperson or an athlete, we do
- 10:14need some form of direction. We do need somebody to say, hey,
- 10:17look, your personal best is OK. Yeah, for those of you who are
- 10:20athletes, your personal best is 9 seconds for one hundred 100
- 10:25meters. But you've been, you've been
- 10:27running 10.1 seconds. You know, you're sleeping
- 10:29behind. Let's go back to our
- 10:31fundamentals. Let's do the drills.
- 10:32So it's the same in sports as in business.
- 10:35There has to be someone to say, look, Olga Frank, last month you
- 10:40are calling about 1010 customers every day.
- 10:43Look, this month you, you, you've been sleeping.
- 10:45Yesterday you only talked to four, today you've only talked
- 10:49to three. You know, if last month you were
- 10:51talking to 10/10/10 and this is how much you made this month
- 10:54you're only talking to three or one to four.
- 10:56How do you think the the month is going to go?
- 10:58So let's get up on the calls or let's do it like this, let's do
- 11:01it like that. So that's what sales management
- 11:03is all about. S training and coaching, sales
- 11:05management. And then really, really
- 11:08important, you have to adopt the CRM in your business.
- 11:12And that's also something I keep talking about time and time
- 11:14again over here on the phone. CRM is just an acronym for
- 11:17customer relationship management.
- 11:19Although I have done lots of episodes to show how if you
- 11:22don't have money, if you don't have dollars to pay for all
- 11:26these things because most of the options that are available Zoho,
- 11:31Zoho, what else? Zoho begin.
- 11:35I'm currently having a client with begin HubSpot sales force.
- 11:41You know, all these are the foreign companies.
- 11:43So if you're paying, you're paying in dollar.
- 11:44So if you don't have dollar dollar, you know to be paying
- 11:48for your sales staff. I was talking about how you can
- 11:51use your phone as a how you can use phones for record keeping
- 11:56and scheduling, how you can get in principle get people to start
- 12:00adopting good CRM practice before you start paying for the
- 12:03CRM. Then there's also African
- 12:07alternatives, free alternatives. Like some fellow, I'm going to
- 12:11be speaking at the artificial Intelligence Business and
- 12:16Business and AI conference or something like that.
- 12:18That's going to be in August, OK?
- 12:22We're currently in July. That's going to be in August of
- 12:232024. So I've been just in with other
- 12:28panelists and there's somebody there who's been fooling around
- 12:32with not just CRM solutions, but HR solutions.
- 12:37Yes, human resources. So there are some companies, you
- 12:40know, Niger companies, Kenyan companies.
- 12:42So the guy put me on Ordo. I think it's Ordo ODOO I've had
- 12:47to look at. I've had to look at it.
- 12:48I've not started using it, but that's a free alternative.
- 12:52And that's an Afghan company. I can't remember if it's Kenya
- 12:55or Niger, but some of these alternatives are there.
- 13:00But yeah, good adopt, get your people to adopt.
- 13:04Good CRM practice. Now CRM customer relationship
- 13:08management sounds big, sounds technical, but bottom line, CRM
- 13:13just means good record keeping and it just means good
- 13:17scheduling. Let me repeat, when you hear CRM
- 13:20customer relationship management tools, yes, there's a big
- 13:24technical definition. But remember over here on the
- 13:26podcast, I like to keep the definitions simple so that you
- 13:29remember. If it's simple and you remember,
- 13:31you will do it. So every single time that you
- 13:33hear CRM in business from now on, I give the permission to
- 13:37just think record keeping and scheduling.
- 13:40Whatever the technical definition is, CRM just equals
- 13:44record keeping and scheduling. The reason why CRM equals record
- 13:49keeping and scheduling is this. You cannot grow your business.
- 13:54You cannot be good in sales if you do not remember who you
- 13:57contacted yesterday, who you're supposed to contact today, who
- 14:01you're supposed to contact tomorrow, and what it is that
- 14:04you promised these people and what you're supposed to do next.
- 14:07Let me repeat, we cannot grow sales in our business if we
- 14:11don't have a way of keeping track.
- 14:13Who did I talk to yesterday? Who am I supposed to talk to
- 14:16today? Who am I supposed to talk to
- 14:18tomorrow? The people that I spoke to
- 14:20yesterday, what did I promise them that I'm supposed to do?
- 14:23The person that I'm supposed to talk to today, What did I
- 14:26promise him that I'm going to get for him?
- 14:30What did he or she promise that they will do for me and the
- 14:33people that I'm going to talk to tomorrow?
- 14:35What is the next step that I'm going to do to move that deal
- 14:37forward? So if you want to run this whole
- 14:41thing by memory, it will get complicated very quickly, except
- 14:46if you're a Carpenter or you're an artisan, because the artisan
- 14:50talks to maybe one or two people every day.
- 14:52It is easy to remember that I went to this madam's house.
- 14:55The door is 21 inches by whatever fits by this.
- 14:59And if I buy one trampoline, if I buy one box of gum, and if I
- 15:07buy one box of screw, it will finish the job.
- 15:11It is easy to do it if you are artisanal because at most you're
- 15:14talking to one or two people every day.
- 15:16You can run it like that if you are not artisanal, if you go
- 15:21beyond this in any way, if you have a bookshop, if you're a
- 15:25wedding photographer, if you do tax accounting services, you
- 15:31advise people on how to file their their taxes with Abuja
- 15:34minister. No, no, no municipal council,
- 15:36that's different. What is it called?
- 15:39Inland Revenue Service. You teach people how to file
- 15:41Inland Revenue services or you're a coach or you're a
- 15:44tailor. You cannot be running these
- 15:46conversations from your head. It's not going to happen.
- 15:48You make mistake, you will talk to Kemi and in your mind you'll
- 15:53be thinking OK, chemist specs, that's for the tailor.
- 15:56You'll be thinking chemist statistics are 361272361272.
- 16:02You'll be thinking like that. You will now go and use chemist
- 16:05fabric and you will make the dress with the statistics of
- 16:08361272 only for chemist to show up and you now see that you took
- 16:16the figures for another chemist who has another different body
- 16:21type and you switched it. That's because you don't have
- 16:23ACRM, you don't have a way of keeping records and scheduling
- 16:28and so you are not able, you are not able to remember that chemi
- 16:33adigun is different from chemi Ogung Bemi and so you just
- 16:38switched up the two. So that's the rubbish that ends
- 16:40up happening when you want to run these things from memory.
- 16:43So you want to build a reliable and productive sales team.
- 16:46Make sure your people adopt the CRM or good CRM practice,
- 16:51whether they use their phone, whether they use auto or other
- 16:55free tools, or whether they use Microsoft Word or whatever.
- 17:01There has to be something. And remember, CRM just equals
- 17:05good record keeping and scheduling.
- 17:09That's all. If you can do those two, you can
- 17:12get your sales people to do those two.
- 17:13You start making progress. Of course, things have to get
- 17:16more tidy and more professional as the business becomes more
- 17:18complicated. But for now, for those of us in
- 17:21the SME space, let us just start with where we are.
- 17:24You don't have dollar dollar. You don't have to be paying for
- 17:27HubSpot, Salesforce, begin, all of them, them, them look for
- 17:34Niger alternatives. All those Kenyan companies,
- 17:37South African companies that are starting up stuff, look for all
- 17:39those free alternatives. Start if you think it's too much
- 17:42stress, if you think it looks too complicated.
- 17:44Even if you use Microsoft Word, you create a, a file, you put
- 17:49everybody's name down, you record what they do, you know,
- 17:52stuff like that, and you start writing down things in the
- 17:58Microsoft Word document. It's better than nothing.
- 18:01You cannot, I repeat, you cannot run this thing from memory.
- 18:04If you're an artisan, fine. If you are one step above the
- 18:08artisan, you cannot run things from memory.
- 18:13So why are these things important?
- 18:16Especially the sales enablement aspect?
- 18:17Because obviously if you haven't picked up my emphasis, I'm
- 18:21really hitting hard on this sales enablement thing.
- 18:24The reason why, especially in Nigeria, this might not apply in
- 18:29the UK and in America where sales enablement, sales
- 18:33training, sales coaching is expected, you know, is the
- 18:36culture. Well, even in those places, they
- 18:41complain that not all sales people are trained up as they
- 18:43should be, but there's a greater awareness of these sorts of
- 18:46things. So sales people are attending
- 18:48conferences, reading, reading blogs, listening to podcasts,
- 18:52you know, things like that. So there's some sort of sales
- 18:55enablement already going on in Niger.
- 18:58It is not a culture yet. That means sales enablement is
- 19:03something that your competition is not doing.
- 19:06Now you start doing those things.
- 19:09Now you already start standing apart from the competition,
- 19:14which is one of the podcast I've been talking about how good
- 19:17sales practice in Nigeria is a good way of setting yourself
- 19:20apart from the competition. In Niger, people still freestyle
- 19:24when they sell. If your folks have run through
- 19:28some form of sales enablement, you've given them some training,
- 19:31you've given them some coaching, you've told them listen to this
- 19:34podcast or subscribe to this newsletter.
- 19:37You have a sales manager who is all trained up, who is on their
- 19:39case and then they are adopting good record keeping and good
- 19:43scheduling. Whether they use the CRM or
- 19:45their phone or Microsoft Word or Excel sheet, your folks will
- 19:50sound remarkably different from other people.
- 19:54So let's say, OK, let me use stationary because I'm parked in
- 20:00front of a stationary shop right now.
- 20:02So you sell stationary. You want to sell your stationary
- 20:06to. Oh, sorry.
- 20:09OK, Sorry about that. I set the alarm 20 minutes.
- 20:12I'm trying not to keep the podcast episodes long.
- 20:15OK, so where was I? So you sell stationary and you
- 20:18want your staff to go into Axis Bank to sell stationary to Axis
- 20:22Bank, you know, sell. Printer ink, sell paper, sell
- 20:25stuff like that. And you also want them to.
- 20:29OK, let's say you're next to. OK, let me just use the business
- 20:32around me. So the stationary store is here
- 20:33in the middle, Access Bank is to the left.
- 20:36And then to the right we have custodian, Custodian wealth
- 20:40management. That's wealth management.
- 20:42That's like investment banking. And then next to that, we have a
- 20:47government regulator that is audit house.
- 20:50Audit House, Yeah, Auditor General of the Federation.
- 20:53OK, So the the people that sell stationary, they're in the
- 20:58middle. You look to the left, you have
- 21:00Access Bank. You look to the left of that,
- 21:02you have the Office of the Auditor General.
- 21:05Then you look to the right, you have the custodian, custodian,
- 21:09wealth managers. So if you send your people out
- 21:13every year to go and sell stationary today, enter Access
- 21:16Bank, see if you can talk to office managers, see if you can
- 21:19talk to MD, see if you can talk to whatever so that we can be
- 21:21supplying them ink, we can be supplying them printer paper.
- 21:24We can supplying them by Rose. Then after that, enter auditor
- 21:27generals office, see if we can be supplying them tissue paper,
- 21:31printer ink, you know, blah, blah, blah.
- 21:33And then we enter into custodian, the wealth managers.
- 21:37Let's say we can be supplying them with custom branded
- 21:41envelopes with their logos and stuff like that.
- 21:43So that's your business. You're into stationary, rest
- 21:46assured, you're not the only people, you're not the only
- 21:48person in the stationary business in this local
- 21:51government. So definitely other people are
- 21:55in the business and other people have come up with this brilliant
- 21:58idea that you know what, instead of sitting down here in the shop
- 22:00and expecting business to flow, flow to us, how about we get
- 22:03some some really entrepreneurial guys and girls to go out and
- 22:07sell on our behalf. So the other people that are
- 22:09doing this thing as well. If you have taken the sales
- 22:13enablement function seriously, then when your people show up to
- 22:18all these businesses, because definitely other people who do
- 22:23stationary will approach them stationary and supplies, your
- 22:25people, they will sound different because they've been
- 22:28trained and coached, because you guys have good sales management
- 22:32and they're also adopting good record keeping and scheduling,
- 22:35they will sound different. They will look different because
- 22:39of course a sales manager will point out that like, you know,
- 22:43Abdul, that you know you're wearing palms.
- 22:45Like why, how, how are we going to get business?
- 22:48If you're going on wear palms. No, don't wear palms.
- 22:50Wear loafers or wear this one. Wear that one.
- 22:54Or if you're wearing palms, make sure that you're wearing kaftan.
- 22:56Let the whole thing blend so they'll look different.
- 23:00They're going to sound different.
- 23:03It is going to reinforce your brand positioning because you
- 23:05can't just get a stationary shop in the central business district
- 23:09in Abuja, your next Access Bank, your next next to what's that
- 23:13place called Auditor General and your next to custodian wealth
- 23:16management. So of course you'll be trying to
- 23:18form one kind of packaging. You know, you're trying to brand
- 23:21yourself in a certain way. So you put all this in place,
- 23:24your folks sound different. You reinforce your brand
- 23:27positioning and ultimately you're also going to be more
- 23:32profitable than your competition because rest assured, if you're
- 23:35adopting good CRM practice, your competition is not adopting good
- 23:39CRM practice. Most likely the system that you
- 23:42have in the office, people come, they pay.
- 23:46So it will capture people's information and things like
- 23:49that. But that is not really CRM.
- 23:52That is more of an accounting and inventory thing.
- 23:55So you know that this is how much came came in, this is how
- 23:58many customers we we had, this is how many tissue paper that we
- 24:01sold last month. So we're supposed to buy new
- 24:03tissue paper again, you know, update our inventory.
- 24:06So you end up being much more profitable because your people
- 24:09are doing good sharing practice, good record keeping and good
- 24:12scheduling. So summary, how do you build a
- 24:15reliable and productive sales team in Nigeria?
- 24:17Make sure you hireright. You want to know how to hire the
- 24:19right people, hire the right talent.
- 24:21Listen to yesterday's episode. We need to have a good answer
- 24:25when it comes to compensation. What is the good answer?
- 24:28How much your people be paid? I'll leave that up to you.
- 24:31Most important thing is don't mess with their motivation.
- 24:33If you say you want to pay them on 21st, pay them 21st every
- 24:35month. If there's going to be a problem
- 24:37you can't pay on 21st, then might as well let them know on
- 24:40the 14th that hey guys, you know what I promise you guys 21st,
- 24:44but you know, this happened, this happened, this happened.
- 24:46I beg you guys should give me like one week, no message or
- 24:49motivation. You promise them pay them then
- 24:53sales enablement really important will help your crew
- 24:56stand apart from the park. So that's all for today folks.
- 25:00Remember to connect with me on WhatsApp.
- 25:02The phone number is 08064 662140, and the country code is
- 25:07+234. Then you can also connect with
- 25:10me on LinkedIn. My name is Tavishima Ayede, I'm
- 25:13the host of the show, and you can confirm the spelling of my
- 25:15name from the link. We're currently listening to
- 25:18this episode, and my e-mail address is there as well for
- 25:21those of you who are e-mail people.
- 25:22So thanks for your time and attention.
- 25:23I'll catch you guys at the next recording.