Latest / Camp Classics / Black Swan (2010)

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Black Swan (2010) · Camp Classics

• 0:00
  Get away from her you bitch. Classic.
• 0:05
  He was in the Amazon cry along when she was researching spiders
• 0:09
  right before she died. No, I thought you become a
• 0:16
  prostitute or a dog at it. I.
• 0:19
  Used to love doggy chow. I used to love doggy chow too.
• 0:23
  There's always someone younger and hungrier coming down the
• 0:27
  stairs after you. I'm Crystal.
• 0:30
  Wait, did you have a Lesi wet dream about me?
• 0:35
  I'm baby lame. And welcome to Camp Classics.
• 0:38
  A thoughtful podcast about stupid movies.
• 0:41
  That was my first of many Showgirls references I'll be
• 0:44
  making throughout this episode. I.
• 0:45
  Wonder why? Welcome to Camp Classics.
• 0:49
  What do we do here? We talk about gay old movies.
• 0:51
  Figure out why gay people like them and we.
• 0:55
  Also question our own lives and our own existence through doing
• 0:59
  this. It's really the pursuit of
• 1:00
  perfection here, isn't it? Absolutely is and the costs,
• 1:04
  yeah, the sacrifices that we make to deliver this podcast to
• 1:08
  you and can I just say I'm very happy that I'm not slurring as
• 1:12
  much as I have been in the last couple of episodes.
• 1:14
  I've been giving slightly numb easy thing to say, but like you
• 1:19
  know Mariah on the meds I'll do the.
• 1:21
  Best I can, but when I. And I'm sorry listeners, but
• 1:26
  I've listened back to some episodes and I'm going to try to
• 1:29
  articulate and enunciate because it's it's literally becoming
• 1:33
  like. I never thought that about
• 1:35
  myself either before I started doing a podcast and I'm like,
• 1:38
  sometimes you make 4 words, one word.
• 1:41
  Yeah, No. About me, not about you.
• 1:44
  Well, valid, because I have. I've had notes for you as well,
• 1:47
  so no, no worries about that. What I've got over very quickly
• 1:50
  is like the big fucking gay lesbian saying I don't give a
• 1:54
  shit about that. I'm now like I have lost the
• 1:56
  ability as a fully grown adult to speak.
• 1:59
  Yeah, yeah, like sounding gay is the least of our problems.
• 2:03
  When you say that's so gay, do you realize what you say?
• 2:06
  Knock it off. Literally, I'd take that.
• 2:09
  Fucking hell. I mean, I don't know why either
• 2:13
  of us thought that we would be good or capable of doing
• 2:17
  something like this, but here we are.
• 2:19
  Gay delusion? Yeah, you're right.
• 2:21
  Yeah, yeah. OK.
• 2:22
  Oh, great. OK.
• 2:23
  That's what it is, yeah. We are Natalie Portman.
• 2:26
  Well, I'd like to be Mili Kunis. I don't think I am.
• 2:29
  I think I'm actually Natalie Portman's mum in reality.
• 2:34
  Yeah, but we're both sounding much better today.
• 2:36
  I feel like we were both clinging on to the ledge for
• 2:39
  dear life. And if any of you see the clips
• 2:41
  that Crystal edits and mannequin, literally, I I look
• 2:45
  like I've been deaf, warmed up. I look like I am the mannequin
• 2:47
  that has been fisted. Well, I'm glad to see you full
• 2:51
  of colour, like a human that's been fisted.
• 2:53
  Yes, great. I will say the blue tinge
• 2:55
  lighting really helps with the kind of transparent skin that I
• 2:58
  have. And also can I just say your
• 3:01
  fucking arms? I nearly had a meltdown when you
• 3:04
  got them out earlier. Like what?
• 3:06
  The look, look. Oh my God, my voice just
• 3:09
  tremored. You have been roiding up bitch,
• 3:14
  haven't you? I wish, I'm too scared of roids.
• 3:17
  So it's all natural. Yeah, they're big.
• 3:19
  Natty, I said that to you, though, I was like, your arms
• 3:22
  are big. Imagine, imagine that what you
• 3:25
  could do. You could like, crush my neck
• 3:27
  with those arms. I got to say the reason I go to
• 3:31
  the gym is for compliments, so I appreciate that.
• 3:34
  OK, yeah, shame about your personality.
• 3:42
  There's no gym for that. Certainly isn't sometimes
• 3:46
  though. Being in a room with you makes
• 3:48
  me feel like there is though. It is like a, you know, a
• 3:51
  training session. Oh, workout.
• 3:53
  Yeah, an intensive workout. What do I want to tell you about
• 3:58
  Cape class? Oh, we've got a gay trion.
• 4:00
  We do, yeah. You can support us financially
• 4:02
  to make this show. As you say that, how many times
• 4:04
  can I like act surprised? Or how can I react differently
• 4:07
  to every time you say? How do I just nod and?
• 4:09
  No, I think you do a good job of like bringing something fresh
• 4:12
  because I don't know what I would say if I were in your
• 4:14
  position. I've thought about this before.
• 4:17
  Oh wait, I'm going to give it another.
• 4:18
  Go Yeah, yeah, we've got a gay trion.
• 4:20
  No, we don't. What's that?
• 4:24
  Yeah, how dare you say that. Well, there we go.
• 4:26
  I'm going to each one. I'm going to try and think of
• 4:28
  something new to do. Well, that's how you can support
• 4:31
  us financially to make the show and you get a bonus episode
• 4:34
  every month if you sign up. It is £4 a month and I'd like to
• 4:37
  welcome Danielle and Chris C. Yes, hello, Chris Crocker or
• 4:42
  Britney fame. I assume yes yeah and now only
• 4:46
  fans *. Probably I.
• 4:48
  Think so. Most people end up on only fans.
• 4:50
  Yeah, yeah. Right now you've got big arms.
• 4:53
  Would you go on Only fans? I think if I were 15 years
• 5:02
  younger, there is no question about it.
• 5:04
  I would have been on Only fans. Yeah.
• 5:06
  And so I guess you would have done Cam maybe?
• 5:08
  I did do Cam. You like to show them off.
• 5:13
  That's what I was leading to. So tell the listeners how you
• 5:16
  did Cam come. On I think this podcast is
• 5:18
  listened to by too many of my friends, potentially family.
• 5:23
  We'll get that on another one. Yeah, I've revealed that detail
• 5:26
  on other podcasts in the past. And you know, if you really want
• 5:29
  to know more, go have a troll. It's a real giggle.
• 5:33
  Yeah, Oh. I know the story, I haven't done
• 5:38
  Cam and still would. Yeah don't care.
• 5:41
  I think there's a niche audience for any anyone I'd like.
• 5:44
  Looked into quite a lot of documentaries about stuff and
• 5:46
  I'm still waiting. If someone could guarantee me an
• 5:49
  audience and an income for five years, I've quit everything and
• 5:53
  I would dedicate myself to doing that.
• 5:54
  Yeah, you've you've talked about this on the podcast.
• 5:58
  Oh shit, I'm so sorry. That's when and then you started
• 6:03
  talking about how you'd you'd shit on Cam.
• 6:05
  Oh, I was literally, that's where my brain was going.
• 6:07
  So I've literally got one thing to say, OK?
• 6:10
  You know, if, if I didn't have to edit this, you could probably
• 6:13
  get away with telling me the same story.
• 6:14
  But you like the fact that is that I've heard you if if you
• 6:17
  tell a story on this podcast once I hear it.
• 6:19
  Please, please. I'm about as interesting as
• 6:22
  Natalie Portman is in this film. No, we won't take that from you.
• 6:25
  But I, I, that is my main note. She really needs to get off.
• 6:31
  Oh my God. Listen, I know it's
• 6:33
  inappropriate to call out someone for being frigid, but
• 6:36
  fuck me, you're frigid. Yeah, sorry.
• 6:40
  Just before we get before we get to Natalie Portman sex life, we
• 6:45
  do have some more. We have some comments.
• 6:47
  Oh, let. Me see.
• 6:49
  Let me see if I. Can.
• 6:50
  No, we don't. Vamp says 19.
• 6:54
  Sorry, padam, Padam. Pavam Pavam, I've just
• 6:59
  discovered this podcast. I love that, yes.
• 7:03
  I've just discovered this podcast and I'm loving it.
• 7:06
  So this makes me the first Italian listener, right?
• 7:09
  Pavam, Pavam, we hear you and we know.
• 7:12
  Welcome. Ciao, Bella.
• 7:13
  Hello. Hey, Rocky said about Mannequin.
• 7:21
  I enjoyed this episode so much more than I enjoyed the movie,
• 7:24
  which may not sound as much of a compliment as I intended to be.
• 7:28
  Yeah, I mean, the world's pretty low, but thank you.
• 7:30
  Thank you, Rocky. Rocky and we had a comment from
• 7:34
  Scales. Up until now, I was under the
• 7:36
  impression that I was the only one on this planet that
• 7:38
  considered Basic Instinct to risk addiction.
• 7:41
  Tour de Force Girls is after your.
• 7:44
  Own Oh my God. I've recently saw an interview
• 7:46
  with Sharon Stone about this. About Basic Instinct too.
• 7:49
  Well, about the Basic Instinct franchise, because apparently
• 7:52
  they're thinking of rebooting it.
• 7:55
  Yes. And she literally was like, I
• 7:57
  don't know why you'd fucking want to.
• 7:59
  And she's like, and then she went, did you not watch the
• 8:02
  sequel? That I did She.
• 8:03
  And then she was something like, if you think it's OK, Like
• 8:06
  basically the director said he wouldn't shoot a scene unless I
• 8:09
  sat on his lap. I was meant to have creative
• 8:12
  control. But it was a complete like
• 8:14
  vanity contract. She basically just shredded it
• 8:17
  all. She was meant to have way more
• 8:19
  clout with that film. That's too bad.
• 8:21
  That's still. Because you really do want her
• 8:23
  to have all the power watching. That I'd settle for like ATV
• 8:27
  movie starring Megan Fox who has recently posted some pictures.
• 8:31
  She's out and about again and she is looking sensational.
• 8:34
  I got to say, I've been working my way through Joe Esther Houses
• 8:37
  back catalog because he's the writer of Basic Instinct, writer
• 8:40
  of Showgirls. I watched Jade this weekend.
• 8:44
  I haven't seen Jade before. It's Basic Instinct, so if you
• 8:47
  feel like you need to watch Basic Instinct again but have it
• 8:50
  make even less sense, you could watch Jade.
• 8:53
  There we go. Yeah, OK.
• 8:54
  Yeah, there's a fertility mask and a murder and who did it and.
• 8:58
  Will we be covering it on this podcast?
• 9:00
  I could. Kind of see it.
• 9:01
  Yeah, it doesn't sound like you're that keen on.
• 9:03
  You know, sometimes you just watch a movie and you don't want
• 9:05
  to think about whether or not it.
• 9:07
  Should be on your podcast. Yeah, fair enough.
• 9:11
  OK, well that's our business, baby.
• 9:12
  Before we go any further, what makes a goddamn camp classic?
• 9:18
  I don't know see what I'm doing, Why?
• 9:21
  Would I know? Yeah, why don't you tell me,
• 9:24
  but. The thing is, you don't know.
• 9:26
  You have to reach your phone every time.
• 9:30
  Well, thanks for asking, Crystal account Plastic is something
• 9:33
  that unlocks queer joy, in the words of the icon herself, Megan
• 9:37
  Fox. I want a wetty.
• 9:40
  It needs to be stupid, it needs to have an ongoing legacy and
• 9:42
  inform queer pop culture, and ultimately it needs to be anti
• 9:46
  mainstream slash underdog flop vibes that's been reclaimed by
• 9:50
  the F slurs. And today we are covering Black
• 9:54
  Swan. Why did you say it like that?
• 9:57
  I know because it's it's arty. Is it?
• 9:59
  It's very arty is highbrow. Hi Oscar winning.
• 10:05
  What's your history with Black Swan?
• 10:07
  Well I remember watching it when it was released and I remember
• 10:10
  being very edgy and arty at uni and having a large poster of it
• 10:14
  on my wall and feeling very. No, this is after you were at
• 10:17
  uni. Was it?
• 10:18
  Yeah, you're not that young. You're not young.
• 10:23
  Where was it? 2010.
• 10:24
  OK, well, it was OK. So I remember watching it and
• 10:30
  remember being like, really like, oh, wow, I love this kind
• 10:33
  of like arty, edgy film. And I got like an arty, edgy
• 10:37
  limited edition print thing and put it up and I was just like,
• 10:41
  yeah, this is like. I'm an artist, yeah, I'm into.
• 10:46
  I'm not like the other girls. Yeah, I'm a cool girl.
• 10:49
  Yeah, so that was it. And then I just hadn't watched
• 10:51
  it. And these kind of films amazed
• 10:53
  me because at the time they're so critically acclaimed and
• 10:56
  everyone bangs on about them, but so many of them just get
• 10:58
  buried, don't they? And just like, forgotten about.
• 11:00
  Like, I don't feel people talk about Black Swan anymore.
• 11:02
  I don't feel like it's. Yeah, I know what you mean.
• 11:04
  So it was interesting to rewatch it because I was like, Oh yeah,
• 11:08
  how about you? I also remember going to see it
• 11:11
  in the theatre. I think I really liked it.
• 11:13
  I remember thinking at the time, this is show Girls in High Art.
• 11:18
  I didn't make the connection back then, but obviously
• 11:21
  watching it now, I'm like, right, OK, it's nearly shot for
• 11:24
  shot Showgirls. Yeah.
• 11:26
  I think I watched it again, I don't know, sometime in the
• 11:29
  interim, and then watched again this week.
• 11:30
  I what? I didn't remember.
• 11:32
  I was expecting a bit more of a romp because in my head it's
• 11:35
  taken in. It's kind of taken up a place
• 11:38
  that Showgirls has of like melodrama, kind of like a silly
• 11:42
  premise. It's quite depressing, yeah.
• 11:45
  Oh yeah. It's quite unnerving 1.
• 11:48
  I will say about showgirls, you know, for all of it's like
• 11:51
  weaknesses is you don't walk away feeling traumatised by it.
• 11:55
  This is like, Oh yeah, yeah, this is a subliminal for abuse,
• 11:59
  this part. Yeah, I've been really, like,
• 12:01
  psychologically tormented for a couple of hours by Darren
• 12:04
  Aronofsky, but I'm glad to be talking about this movie today.
• 12:08
  So what is Black Swan? Black Swan is a 2010 American
• 12:11
  psychological horror thriller directed by Darren Aronofsky
• 12:16
  from a screenplay by Mark Heyman, John McLaughlin and
• 12:19
  Andre Hynes. So it's directed by a man and
• 12:21
  written by three men. Which is really fabulous for the
• 12:24
  subject matter that this takes on.
• 12:26
  Yeah, I love that for it. The film stars Natalie Portman
• 12:29
  in the lead role. First, our first Natalie
• 12:32
  Portman. I believe so.
• 12:33
  Welcome, welcome. To the podcast, Natalie Portman
• 12:36
  and Mila Kunis. First time.
• 12:38
  Welcome to the. Podcast.
• 12:39
  I just say camp crush Mila Kunis.
• 12:42
  Camp crash. Yeah, I forgot I.
• 12:43
  I mean, she's hot. Yeah, and I, like, I kind of
• 12:46
  forgot because she's not done a lot recently, has she?
• 12:51
  And I was just like, Oh my God, Mila Kunis, you are fucking cool
• 12:54
  and you are fucking hot. You've fallen victim to the cool
• 12:57
  girl trap. I always fall victim to the cool
• 13:00
  girl trap her Orby Plaza. Who else is there that all
• 13:04
  anyone that sort of is in that that like little niche.
• 13:07
  I'm always like, Oh my God, Patti Harrison, comedian is
• 13:11
  like. Yeah, but she is actually cool.
• 13:13
  The other is not cool then. Well, I guess what?
• 13:15
  Every Plaza is cool. Yeah, I'll be Plaza is cool.
• 13:18
  I think Mila Kunis is doing something a bit different in
• 13:20
  this movie, which is like, I am so cool and different.
• 13:23
  Like I fuck and I eat cheeseburgers.
• 13:26
  I'm not like other girls. I'm a cool girl.
• 13:29
  You can you can have sex with me and I'll like it.
• 13:32
  Yeah, she's OK, but I still. She's basically like a theatre
• 13:35
  kid, like pretending to basically trying to figure out
• 13:38
  how how to appeal to men. Is that her vibe outside of
• 13:40
  acting there? I don't know.
• 13:42
  I don't know. I mean, she's married to Ashton
• 13:43
  Kutch. Yeah, didn't they, like, have a
• 13:44
  problem with like, I think they defended one of their 70s Show
• 13:49
  Co stars when he was accused of rape?
• 13:51
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember.
• 13:53
  I mean, the film kind of does that as well that we're about to
• 13:56
  talk about, but. Yeah, anyway, it's This movie
• 13:59
  also has Winona Ryder. Sensational Comeback So this was
• 14:03
  her first movie since the shoplifting I.
• 14:05
  Think so, yeah. Big comeback, isn't it?
• 14:07
  Yeah. Always a delight to see Winona
• 14:09
  Ryder and something and we've got Barbara Hershey playing the
• 14:12
  mum, Erica and Vincent Castle as.
• 14:15
  Barbara Hershey, famous for. She is famous for I know she did
• 14:20
  a movie called The Entity which is supposed to be really good,
• 14:22
  where she's being like sexually assaulted by a ghost.
• 14:25
  I. Mean, that's not funny, but kind
• 14:28
  of his. Oh, she's in beaches.
• 14:31
  Oh. Which I've never seen.
• 14:32
  Oh yeah? Oh my God, you've never seen
• 14:34
  beaches? No.
• 14:35
  OK, I think we should talk about beaches on this podcast.
• 14:38
  Oh really? Is it camp?
• 14:39
  Isn't it just depressing? Melodramatic, but it's also very
• 14:43
  calm. OK, great.
• 14:44
  Yeah. In my.
• 14:45
  Well, I haven't watched it for years, but yeah, Barbara
• 14:47
  Hershey, What I will say is the facelift is lifting.
• 14:51
  Yeah, it's just that flat skin over the ear, but.
• 14:54
  It works for the caricature. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely.
• 14:57
  This movie had a $13 million budget, and do you know how much
• 15:01
  it took worldwide? No it.
• 15:03
  Was a huge hit, $330 million. Shit, Yeah.
• 15:06
  One of the top movies of the year.
• 15:08
  Has there been like, you know, when they do like the sequels
• 15:11
  that are like with none of the cast, it feels like there should
• 15:14
  be a Black Swan too. I guess for all his faults, we
• 15:17
  can give Darren Aronofsky that that he's probably a bit
• 15:20
  precious about his. And hasn't, yeah.
• 15:22
  Yeah, but yeah, you're right. Or you could imagine like.
• 15:24
  With Denise Richards in it or something?
• 15:26
  Yeah, where's the like Prime TV miniseries?
• 15:29
  Oh God, yeah. With Denise.
• 15:32
  Richards. I'd watch.
• 15:34
  So not only was it a commercial success, it was also a critical
• 15:37
  success. It's got 85% on Rotten Tomatoes.
• 15:41
  What's it doing on this podcast? Honestly.
• 15:43
  And it had five Oscar nominations, including Best
• 15:47
  picture, best Director and Natalie Portman won best
• 15:50
  actress. So it won the like, big three,
• 15:52
  but that's what I'm saying. Win all three.
• 15:54
  It just won Best Actress, but it was nominated for Yeah.
• 15:56
  But still, I do think this film has kind of been forgotten about
• 16:00
  slightly. Interesting.
• 16:02
  In 2021, Natalie Portman's performance was included in the
• 16:05
  New Yorkers list of the best film performances of the 21st
• 16:08
  century. So people still think it's good.
• 16:11
  Oh, OK. Well, then yeah.
• 16:12
  Yeah. It's interesting when Natalie
• 16:14
  Portman isn't it? And I know we'll get into it,
• 16:16
  but do you remember when she first sort of came into the
• 16:17
  screens in Star Wars Queen Amidala?
• 16:20
  Everybody was banging on about how wooden she was for so long.
• 16:23
  It's just great that she's. Yeah, let's really the plot.
• 16:26
  Yes. OK, let's do the plot.
• 16:28
  So we meet Nina Sayers, who is Natalie Portman.
• 16:31
  She's a young dancer with the New York City Ballet who lives
• 16:35
  with her overprotective mother, Erica, played by Barbara
• 16:38
  Hershey, who is a former ballerina.
• 16:41
  And like the beginning scene, very arty, setting the tone,
• 16:44
  very stylistic as a very filmic quality to it.
• 16:48
  And she's just dancing in the spotlight, isn't she?
• 16:50
  She's dancing, and then she's dancing with her partner, and
• 16:52
  her partner transforms into a bird monster.
• 16:55
  Which is giving like boulet brothers drag king thing like
• 17:00
  slay them honey. So true.
• 17:04
  But looks gorgeous. Yeah, yeah, she's a ballerina.
• 17:06
  She's and the company she's in is opening the season with
• 17:09
  Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake. We learned that the current
• 17:14
  prima ballerina Beth, played by Winona Ryder.
• 17:16
  Beth is being forced into retirement.
• 17:20
  Can I say that when we see her, the picture of her on the poster
• 17:24
  outside the venue? Yes, serving cunt Winona, she is
• 17:29
  good. Purse, Purse.
• 17:30
  Yeah, she gets so little screen time in this, but she does make
• 17:33
  it count. Yeah, she really does.
• 17:35
  But yeah, when she when I saw that poster, which I was like,
• 17:38
  that's why was it. But straight away I'm like, hi
• 17:40
  Crystal. It's very showgirls that isn't
• 17:43
  it? Oh.
• 17:44
  My God, you're so right. Crystal Connors is Goddess,
• 17:47
  Winona Ryder is Swan Lake. Yeah it's so true.
• 17:51
  I should just get this out of the way now.
• 17:53
  Have you seen the mash up trailer where someone has taken
• 17:57
  the dialogue from the trailer of Black Swan and put it over
• 18:00
  scenes from Showgirls? No, it is.
• 18:04
  Amazing. I've never didn't even know that
• 18:06
  was a thing. Yeah, I will link it in our
• 18:10
  carousel for this episode. You should.
• 18:12
  Really. OK, watch.
• 18:13
  It and I will show it to you after this.
• 18:15
  It's perfect. But yeah, Beth is being forced
• 18:17
  into retirement and we see her trashing her dressing room
• 18:21
  because she's furious to be pushed out and out.
• 18:23
  That's always going to be camp. Camp clue.
• 18:25
  Yeah, listen. Someone smashing a mirror.
• 18:28
  A lot someone a hysterical woman.
• 18:31
  That trope never gets old. It's always fun to see.
• 18:35
  And then that creepy little pervy little freak that hasn't
• 18:39
  unleashed a freak goes into the room and steals some bits,
• 18:43
  doesn't she? She takes her lipstick.
• 18:45
  We're like, oh, I thought this person was going to be our hero.
• 18:49
  Yeah, and she's got like a little.
• 18:50
  She's a bit sneaky, creepy, gross.
• 18:52
  Yeah, listen to that Natalie Port.
• 18:56
  Yeah, Sneaky, creepy, gross person.
• 18:59
  Artistic Director Tomah announces he's looking for a new
• 19:03
  dancer for the dual roles of the innocent and fragile White Swan
• 19:07
  and the sensual and dark Black Swan.
• 19:10
  I like even he admits that that's a fucking basic ass show
• 19:13
  to kick off the season with though, isn't it?
• 19:15
  Because like, I mean it, it works for the audience as well.
• 19:17
  Because people that don't know ballet, it's like that of a
• 19:19
  Nutcracker, isn't it? Really it's.
• 19:21
  Really the only two ballets I could name I've seen Swan like.
• 19:24
  Have you? Yeah, I haven't.
• 19:26
  I don't really remember it, but it's, you know, impressive.
• 19:28
  I. Don't want to be working in
• 19:30
  ballet. What I will say is as well, he's
• 19:32
  like, we're going to deconstruct it and make it edgy and
• 19:34
  different. And it's like everything I saw
• 19:37
  is what I know. Yeah, doesn't seem that way.
• 19:41
  This is the first time we hear him explain how the white swan
• 19:45
  is the good one and the Black Swan is the sexy bad.
• 19:48
  One well, I'm really glad that they do that because otherwise
• 19:50
  it would be really hard to follow the twists and turns that
• 19:53
  this narrative takes in regard to that.
• 19:56
  I mean, it's not like it's the most literal thing that is
• 19:58
  consistently parallel through the entire movie.
• 20:01
  One of like meant maybe 7 times in the movie.
• 20:04
  He's like, you're too frigid. You're white swan.
• 20:07
  I need you to be sexy slutty Black Swan.
• 20:10
  That is basically it. You know what it gives you
• 20:12
  parallels to. I know who killed me with the
• 20:15
  blue and the with. The blue and the red, you're
• 20:17
  right. It's the red Or is it just blue?
• 20:19
  Yeah, it's red and blue. Yeah, red and blue, the two
• 20:21
  sides of the coin. Yeah, I was just like, wow, this
• 20:23
  is the same cinematic universe. Yeah.
• 20:25
  Are you a poet and a writer, or are you a bad girl stripper?
• 20:28
  Yeah. And why can't you be built
• 20:33
  there? I think we covered the movie.
• 20:34
  Yeah, I think. I think that's it.
• 20:37
  So Nina auditions for the Swan Queen and Let.
• 20:40
  Me tell you something. Sorry to interrupt you.
• 20:42
  It's hard being a ballerina from the get go, isn't it?
• 20:45
  We're seeing lots of brutal, like close-ups of ties.
• 20:49
  Yeah, and like the sound effects, you get a real like
• 20:53
  Foley of like bones. Crunching.
• 20:55
  Crunching. Yeah, she's.
• 20:57
  Getting Massage Mother delivers a delicious breakfast of a
• 21:00
  grapefruit and an egg. It's so pink.
• 21:03
  It looks horrible, doesn't it? And the whole grading of the
• 21:07
  entire, I have filmed this world, we're sort of set up that
• 21:09
  everything is so dark, cold. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:13
  Paints are really like nasty image of the industry.
• 21:16
  Yeah, I think it's probably unfair really, because Natalie
• 21:19
  Portman, like, she doesn't seem to be doing it because she loves
• 21:22
  it. She's doing it because she's
• 21:24
  like, determined to be the best. You know things where it's like,
• 21:26
  hey, keep this thing alive even though like no one cares about
• 21:29
  this anymore. That's good enough reason I.
• 21:31
  Guess, but I'm sure there's lots of ballerinas who are like I.
• 21:35
  I love my dog, I mean. To do this mean the kudos
• 21:37
  doesn't even warm up. Yeah, she doesn't even have
• 21:39
  techniques. She's coming from drinking and
• 21:41
  she just dances. And suddenly as we're talking.
• 21:43
  1/3 option which is someone who likes their job and takes it
• 21:47
  seriously. Yeah, and probably having a
• 21:48
  nice. Yeah, I bet a lot of ballerinas
• 21:51
  were like, pissed about this movie.
• 21:53
  All respect to the ballet and opera people out there.
• 21:56
  So Ninas auditioning, she gives a flawless performance as the
• 21:59
  White Swan because she's perfect.
• 22:01
  Pure innocent virgin baby girl but when she tries to do the
• 22:05
  blacks one she trips and that's because Lily has walked in.
• 22:09
  That's Mila Kunis and. What I will say about her
• 22:12
  audition and like the process of watching her, I don't know why
• 22:15
  she did make it to the next stage of the auditions because
• 22:17
  she's already like fucking freaking out.
• 22:20
  Like all of the other ballerinas are like smiling and dancing and
• 22:23
  just doing the work on the bar. And she's just like a psycho
• 22:27
  paranoid, like head scattering around looking at the director.
• 22:31
  It's like you're not well enough to dance this baby.
• 22:34
  You're. So, right, I think anyone
• 22:36
  looking at her for any amount of time would be like, this girl
• 22:38
  needs some help. Yeah.
• 22:40
  It's like, are you OK? Yeah, yeah, You know, she does
• 22:42
  get in. She gets.
• 22:43
  And then we see Mila, Mila giving that kind of.
• 22:46
  Oh, I love it. Oh God, I've got such a sweet
• 22:48
  spot for it, that 2010 smoky IB, you know, that kind of it's like
• 22:55
  half sort of oh, I'm just wearing a pencil skirt in the
• 22:59
  office kind of thing. Big blowout, bit edgy bit rock
• 23:03
  chick there's. Like a bit like, did I sleep in
• 23:06
  this makeup? Maybe, yeah.
• 23:07
  But I don't have to pull off that.
• 23:09
  Kind of like Pussycat Dolls, Christina Aguilera, like sort of
• 23:13
  weird filter. Do you know what I mean?
• 23:15
  Of like, not much makeup, but lots of makeup.
• 23:18
  I love it. Obsessed.
• 23:19
  She looks amazing. She really, really does.
• 23:22
  Yeah. She's so hot.
• 23:24
  It'd be really fun to just have like that of yourself on film
• 23:28
  looking like that. We say this all the time, yeah.
• 23:31
  I love that this is an Oscar nominated film and this is what
• 23:34
  we're talking. About their girls are hot.
• 23:37
  The rules of feminism. The next day, Nina asks Toma to
• 23:40
  reconsider and he kisses her unexpectedly and she bites him
• 23:45
  and runs out of his office. And so this is our first glimpse
• 23:49
  into him as a sexual predator. Yeah.
• 23:52
  Later, Nina is surprised to find she has gotten the lead.
• 23:56
  Well, don't skip over because I love that other girl over.
• 24:00
  It's literally she's one of us because she's like, they're
• 24:03
  waiting. They're like sort of doing,
• 24:05
  they're sitting on the floor getting ready, waiting for the
• 24:07
  who's got the part in the the ballet and crazy cuckoo Nina is
• 24:12
  just staring at the other ballerinas and the other one is
• 24:16
  basically like, what the fuck are you looking at?
• 24:19
  Why is she always staring at me? Yeah.
• 24:21
  It's just like you see her craziness and then crazy lady
• 24:25
  says to her, oh, you know, well done.
• 24:28
  And and then she thinks she's got the part, and then she
• 24:31
  doesn't have the part, does she? That's right.
• 24:33
  I love that she doesn't get enough time.
• 24:35
  That girl like. She's the one that you were you
• 24:38
  were talking about like she's not the one that's losing her
• 24:41
  mind over being a ballerina. And she's also the one that's
• 24:43
  not taking it seriously. She's the one that's training
• 24:46
  quite good at it and just loving life.
• 24:48
  Yeah, she's the the real story of this.
• 24:51
  Yeah, she's also a bitch, but I like her for that.
• 24:54
  Yeah, but so Nina's gotten the lead.
• 24:57
  He gave her the part because she bit his lip and he's like, oh,
• 24:59
  she could be bad, she could be dangerous.
• 25:01
  She might not be just a good girl.
• 25:04
  She calls her mom in from the toilet.
• 25:06
  And then this is where we get the great shot of her seeing
• 25:09
  whore written on the mirror and lipstick you.
• 25:13
  See darling, you are a whore. And again, it's like just when
• 25:19
  you thought you've stepped into a film that is like, you know, a
• 25:22
  bit more highbrow. It's not going to be using the
• 25:24
  same old tropes. No, we're in full on Showgirls
• 25:27
  territory here. Someone is coming for her and is
• 25:30
  writing it in a blood red lipstick.
• 25:32
  You see, darlin, you are a whore.
• 25:34
  I love the memes of her trying to scrub horror off the mirror.
• 25:39
  Like, there's been fabulous memes and this movie is worth it
• 25:44
  being made just for those. So Nina goes home, and then
• 25:47
  there's the cake scene. What happens with the cake?
• 25:50
  Well, her mum has bought this elaborate fucking cake and the
• 25:53
  world's largest sheet cake. Yeah.
• 25:55
  And it's like, for two of them, it's like, well done.
• 25:58
  And then it's cutting her like a huge slice.
• 26:00
  And then this is where we're getting sort of an insight into
• 26:03
  clearly one of many traumas that Nina has in her life.
• 26:06
  And it's implied that obviously eating is something that she,
• 26:10
  she struggles with. And yet you've got this scene
• 26:12
  where then the mum's like, oh, OK, fine, don't eat it.
• 26:15
  It's nothing. I think it's useless, it's
• 26:16
  rubbish and she throws it away and then Nina's then is forced
• 26:20
  to kind of sit there and enjoy eating the cake and it just sort
• 26:24
  of really shows their relationship from the get go.
• 26:26
  Very effective, very fucked up relationship, the two of them.
• 26:29
  And at this point, you still don't really understand what her
• 26:32
  mum is, what her mum's back story is.
• 26:35
  This is also where we see that she's got paintings of Nina all
• 26:38
  over the apartment. Oh yeah, just drop that.
• 26:41
  Oh. Yeah, this is some mummy
• 26:43
  dearest, Yeah. It really is like it really is
• 26:46
  this movie. All of the movies we know and
• 26:49
  love to talk about on this podcast.
• 26:51
  You can see a bit of them in this movie.
• 26:54
  Yeah, Faye Dunaway is there in that Faye.
• 26:56
  Dunaway is right there. Christina Aguilera in burlesque
• 27:00
  is is in the room. Crystal Connors is here.
• 27:05
  Lindsay Lohan. And I know who killed me.
• 27:07
  You got a bit of barbed wire. I'm not.
• 27:09
  What barbed wire is it or you just?
• 27:11
  I don't know, you know. Okay, why not?
• 27:14
  Why not? Sure, Chuck it.
• 27:15
  Chuck in that for shits and giggles.
• 27:17
  She's a cool. Girl, I don't know.
• 27:20
  Barb Wire is not in this movie. I'll let you have the others,
• 27:23
  but Barb Wire is not here. But it's very much in the in the
• 27:26
  category of movies that I think we need to just have in our mind
• 27:30
  now, which is there's always someone younger and hungry.
• 27:32
  Hungry are coming down the stairs.
• 27:33
  And it's also got a bit of notes on the scandal on it.
• 27:35
  It's got a yeah because. The soundtrack is the
• 27:37
  spiralling, melodramatic instrumental school which I I
• 27:41
  feel like home now. Now that we've done Notes on the
• 27:43
  Scandal, I feel safe in that soundtrack space.
• 27:46
  Totally just. Spiralling out of control with
• 27:48
  like an orchestra. With lesbian tension yeah makes
• 27:53
  me really want to do all about eve yes okay there's a gala
• 27:56
  celebrating the new season Tamar announces beths retirement and
• 28:00
  he's yeah. Where did they say sorry?
• 28:02
  Did you suck his cock? You're a fucking little.
• 28:05
  Whore, that's coming up. Okay, sorry, yeah, I just wanted
• 28:07
  to make sure we talked about that.
• 28:09
  So this is the gala Toma is announcing best retirement.
• 28:12
  He's like, she's fucking old. He's like the biggest put down.
• 28:17
  Again. We see the same camera angles in
• 28:20
  Showgirls, Yeah, when it's like we could have brought.
• 28:23
  Anyone into this show? Latoya, Suzanne, you name it.
• 28:28
  But yeah, there she is in the crowd, doesn't get a word,
• 28:32
  doesn't get to stand on the stage.
• 28:33
  She's just there in the audience and they're shitting all over
• 28:35
  Winona. Yeah.
• 28:37
  And yeah, it's like, look how old she is.
• 28:39
  Do you know how old Winona is when she made this movie?
• 28:41
  Oh God. I'm sat down to tell me. 38,
• 28:46
  She's 38. I mean, you watch channel.
• 28:49
  I mean, it's what you've been trained to think because I was
• 28:51
  watching it like you're old and passed it.
• 28:53
  Winona past it. Yeah, she's 38, she's getting
• 28:56
  drunk, she's pissed off, she's not happy about her retirement.
• 29:00
  Nina goes to the bathroom and she's hallucinating some
• 29:03
  disgusting finger picking body horror stuff.
• 29:06
  Yeah, this is the point where you're like, you need to go and
• 29:08
  get a proper manicure. Yeah, because your nails are all
• 29:12
  over the show. Go.
• 29:13
  See Noemi Malone. Yeah, you get her nails.
• 29:16
  Thanks yeah because her nails are monkey and mine are
• 29:21
  disgusting but mine are like. Oh, she does that thing where
• 29:24
  she like, peels A hangnail and it like peels up her whole
• 29:27
  finger. It is.
• 29:28
  Leave it alone own leave your fingernails alone.
• 29:33
  But it's a hallucination or is it probably Lily also comes into
• 29:37
  the bathroom and they're having a chat and then she takes off
• 29:40
  her panties for some reason. Well, because you know she can.
• 29:42
  She's a cool girl. She's a cool girl.
• 29:44
  She's cool girl. Inside you there are two Swans,
• 29:46
  ones a cool slut. Are the inside of me right now?
• 29:52
  You would thought I would have noticed that well.
• 29:54
  Then an intoxicated Beth publicly accuses Nina of
• 29:57
  providing sexual favours to Tamar in return for the role.
• 30:00
  Yes, OK. Did you suck his cock?
• 30:03
  You're a fucking little whore. No, no, it's brilliant work.
• 30:07
  And also it's giving me Julianne Moore.
• 30:09
  In most of Julianne Moore's films, after she's had a couple
• 30:12
  of drinks, you never got eye makeup going down like, oh, the
• 30:15
  booze, the booze. Booze always wins, doesn't it?
• 30:19
  She's wearing a lovely dress. Too.
• 30:21
  I mean what I will say about when I never write this
• 30:23
  character. They really haven't attempted to
• 30:25
  give her any depth at all, have they?
• 30:27
  No, it's like jealous. What if you?
• 30:28
  Were a tired old showgirl. That's it, yeah.
• 30:33
  Oh, Diary of a showgirl. Oh yeah, it's.
• 30:35
  Yeah, well, there's the PAMI connection, not barbed wire.
• 30:39
  Nina goes home with Toma and he's really fucking gross to her
• 30:43
  and he gives her homework to go home and masturbate.
• 30:46
  Every time you mention him, I just breathe in and pause.
• 30:51
  There's a lot to unpack with his character and how it's presented
• 30:54
  in this story, isn't. Yeah, we can get there.
• 30:56
  Yeah, so she does. She goes home, she's having a
• 30:59
  wank. I know I'm just saying that, but
• 31:02
  then that's it just makes me laugh.
• 31:03
  I know she really struggles, Blair So doesn't she?
• 31:06
  Doesn't really know what she's doing but she does have a good
• 31:09
  try and then jump cut scare to her mum who is in the room
• 31:14
  sleeping in the chair. It's a great, it's a great.
• 31:20
  Moment she would have known she was there.
• 31:21
  I don't know. How gross.
• 31:24
  The next day, Nina hears Beth has been hit in a car accident
• 31:29
  and Toma believes she was attempting suicide.
• 31:32
  Nina visits Beth in the hospital and is distraught to see her
• 31:35
  injured legs. She's never going to dance
• 31:37
  again. Again, showgirls.
• 31:42
  Yeah, it's hospital. Visit It's really all there.
• 31:45
  Then there's some more unraveling, more hallucinations,
• 31:48
  more body horror, more rehearsals, more sexual assault
• 31:51
  from Toma and Erica is painting portraits of Nina and sobbing.
• 31:57
  Lots more bits of Toma being like no you're too nice and
• 32:01
  perfect and clean, you need to be a slut.
• 32:03
  Yeah, like, and then he kisses her and starts like, fingering
• 32:07
  her, grabbing her tits, and she's into it, which is a really
• 32:12
  problematic thing. Then he's like, that was me
• 32:14
  seducing you, now you need to seduce me.
• 32:17
  He's awful. Yeah.
• 32:19
  One night, despite Erica's objections, Nina goes out with
• 32:23
  Lily for drinks. Now we've all been here, I
• 32:30
  think, haven't we? Which part?
• 32:32
  We'll just, I actually, well, let's set it up a bit more now.
• 32:38
  The first part of this night, it's really problematic because
• 32:43
  Mila Kunis is offering her drugs, isn't she?
• 32:45
  And that's not the. That's not the problem, no.
• 32:48
  That's fine. That part is fine.
• 32:49
  And it's like, come on, listen up, you know, last two hours.
• 32:53
  Lily spends 2 minutes of Nina is like wow, this girl is buttoned
• 32:58
  up. Yeah, she needs to let loose.
• 33:00
  But Nina doesn't want to take the drugs so she and then she
• 33:03
  goes away. She's been given an outfit that
• 33:05
  Mila Kunis has on which is black and slightly slutty.
• 33:09
  Oh my God, is she dipping her toes into the Black Swan?
• 33:12
  And then she as she comes back we see Mila Kunis with two guys
• 33:17
  having a laugh and about to spike Nina's drink.
• 33:21
  Yep, that's it. She is going to spike her
• 33:24
  because she thinks she's too frigid.
• 33:26
  And So what would you do in that situation?
• 33:29
  Who am I? You are Nina.
• 33:31
  I mean, I'd take the drink. Yeah, but you, you're drinking,
• 33:34
  you're having it already. You didn't need to spike me.
• 33:44
  It's pretty fucking weird to then go and hang out and be like
• 33:47
  oh this is this the one you spiked?
• 33:49
  I'll have it then. I guess she knows that like
• 33:53
  lilies, intentions are for her to have fun.
• 33:57
  That is mental. It is.
• 33:58
  I mean, it is. It is but.
• 34:00
  I think she does. She doesn't even know her.
• 34:02
  The thing is with this character is that she's like desperate to
• 34:04
  please, isn't she? So she's like, and she's got no
• 34:07
  fucking clue. So as soon as someone is like do
• 34:09
  this, she's like, OK. Yeah, I mean, it's wild that she
• 34:12
  then. Yeah, but then goes on to have
• 34:15
  what looks like a really fun time, actually.
• 34:17
  Yeah, it looks like suddenly they've gone from like a shit
• 34:20
  Chelsea esque cocktail bar with some fucking wankers to her
• 34:25
  being in the toilet cubicle making out with a hot guy in a
• 34:29
  dirty club. And I'm like, suddenly I'm robe.
• 34:32
  I'm like, we've gone to the right place, we've gone to the.
• 34:34
  Right place now, yeah, that was the wrong place beforehand,
• 34:37
  yeah. And I was like, yeah, that's the
• 34:38
  fun place. I mean, it's a camp clue, but I
• 34:41
  love like scene of a of a woman cutting loose and she's like,
• 34:45
  she's had some drugs. She's like embracing the dark
• 34:48
  side and she's like, I'm going to go out and fucking dance.
• 34:50
  Yeah, and just like, fucking own it on the floor.
• 34:52
  And like, it's very Christina Aguilera.
• 34:55
  I'm not myself tonight. Very there.
• 34:57
  Isn't it just like, but don't I think everybody loves that, You
• 35:00
  know, when it's just like every now and again, you might just be
• 35:03
  like, I'm just going to lose me and you lose friends along the
• 35:07
  way and you're just like, I'm just going to be someone
• 35:08
  completely different. I'm just gonna lose myself under
• 35:11
  those splashing lights, yeah. Is that this?
• 35:15
  My God, There's a Sugar Babe song that's come to mind.
• 35:17
  You know the Sugar Babes one, Then their last variation.
• 35:20
  Yeah, there was like a really bad song where it's like I like
• 35:24
  the lights and the games they play, and it's like strobe
• 35:28
  lights. Other moment, other notable
• 35:32
  times has happened. Buffy and Faith and Buffy they
• 35:35
  have they have like a wild night out where they go dancing in
• 35:38
  girls. What's her face has coke and
• 35:40
  like I think it's the Dancing on My Own by Robin.
• 35:43
  And I like the great trope. I like the way they go.
• 35:45
  I mean, obviously it's not a comedy.
• 35:46
  I hate it when it's like they do it and then the troopers, they
• 35:50
  like, they're like crazy and kooky and they've done
• 35:52
  something. I like it when it's like unleash
• 35:54
  the pop video vixen in them. Yeah.
• 35:57
  And the bit that I really relate to, I think they've done, I
• 36:00
  think the way that they filmed all of that.
• 36:02
  And like when she leaves the club and it's all kind of like
• 36:05
  the air's hitting her and she's a bit.
• 36:06
  I I feel like that was quite authentic and I'm like, well,
• 36:10
  I've been there. Yeah.
• 36:11
  The other bit though, that I was just that it leads onto is I
• 36:14
  have definitely been in a nightclub where I have thought
• 36:17
  that I've been making out with myself.
• 36:19
  Like fully like she did in the film.
• 36:22
  It's like where I've been so high that I've literally thought
• 36:27
  I was making out with myself. I had my own Black Swan moment.
• 36:30
  Like no, it was like it was years and years ago.
• 36:33
  Kissing someone. Yes, it was at Bergkine and they
• 36:36
  must have looked similar ish to me, but I had a moment where I
• 36:39
  was like kissing myself and I remember just being to myself
• 36:43
  like you are so fucking stop right now go with it.
• 36:46
  You can't question it, just kiss yourself.
• 36:48
  And then it obviously wasn't I well I don't know maybe it was
• 36:52
  my black sword moment, but I was actually watching it and I was
• 36:54
  like I was like what does this remind me of?
• 36:56
  And then I was like I have done this exact same.
• 36:59
  This explains something. I think that's when you got
• 37:01
  replaced by your evil twin, and ever since we've been dealing
• 37:06
  with the dark version of you from Berlin.
• 37:08
  Honestly, yeah, I was like. The good baby Lane's been
• 37:11
  stabbed in a toilet cubicle in Bergheim.
• 37:17
  Bring back that baby Lane. But that scene, but then it goes
• 37:20
  into, I haven't had sex with myself.
• 37:21
  I've never gone down on myself as far as I know.
• 37:24
  Maybe, hey, maybe I did, maybe I don't remember.
• 37:27
  Tried. You're not flexible enough.
• 37:31
  Do people actually try? Everybody's tried.
• 37:33
  I mean, I must have tried, but I think, I think with me, I think
• 37:36
  I knew that I wouldn't be able to like I can barely touch my
• 37:39
  toes, so I'm not going to be like deep throating myself.
• 37:42
  What about you with your big muscles?
• 37:44
  You bendy as well, Crystal. Let's move on.
• 37:48
  Oh, does that mean you can? Let's move on.
• 37:50
  No, but let's talk about the sex scene.
• 37:52
  Yeah, no, we're, yeah. Because no, we're not quite
• 37:54
  there yet. Because she.
• 37:56
  I just want to shout out to the fact that she gets fingered in
• 37:59
  the back of a taxi. Oh, sorry, yeah.
• 38:02
  Have you ever? Fingered someone in the back of
• 38:04
  the taxi, yeah. Probably.
• 38:05
  I don't think I have. Maybe not fingered I.
• 38:08
  Don't know God, why? You don't have to, no.
• 38:13
  You can though. Well, I feel like I'm going to
• 38:15
  now. I remember giving someone a hand
• 38:18
  job during the Sherlock Holmes sequel movie in the cinema in
• 38:23
  Brixton and it was really, really full and he had a coat
• 38:28
  over him and I remember just giving him a hand job.
• 38:31
  There we go, Sherlock Holmes too.
• 38:33
  I know. Like fucking hell.
• 38:36
  Oh. That's cute though.
• 38:38
  I like that. That's queering heteronormity.
• 38:40
  So I want to watch it with you so I can relive the experience
• 38:44
  with you. I don't know those were, but
• 38:47
  yeah, it's just like when you're younger and you're like, I'm
• 38:51
  feeling really provocative now. Again, the Black Swan was in me.
• 38:55
  We've all got our Black Swan moments, You know where it's
• 38:57
  just like, that's the Black Swan noise.
• 39:00
  Yeah, your knees cracking and. Yeah.
• 39:04
  Sprouting and then before you know it, you're jerking off a
• 39:06
  stranger and every man to Sherlock Holmes.
• 39:13
  But then so we're in full on lesbo mode now, which we love.
• 39:16
  This is something that Showgirls doesn't go this far.
• 39:20
  No. We, we want to see it in
• 39:22
  Showgirls, but they sort of dive into their apartment, don't
• 39:28
  they? Like she's getting really like
• 39:30
  Larry with her mum. When her mum's like, what does
• 39:33
  she say? Her mum, she's like where have
• 39:34
  you been or who? Have you?
• 39:36
  Yeah. She's like the moon and back.
• 39:38
  Yeah, and then she's like, you want their names?
• 39:39
  And she's like, they fucked me or something like that.
• 39:42
  Yeah, she's really letting her. Rubbing it in her mum's face and
• 39:46
  it's, it's a gorgeous thing to see.
• 39:48
  And then they Sprint into her bedroom, shut the door and then
• 39:53
  just lesbian scene, isn't it? Yeah, it's a a lot of
• 39:56
  cunnilingus. Deep, deep cunnilingus from Mila
• 39:59
  Kunis, Yeah. Nina probably finally gets off.
• 40:03
  Yeah, well, you think. Yeah.
• 40:05
  I mean, she's like grunting and screaming.
• 40:08
  It reminded me of that story that you told me.
• 40:11
  It's very bold to be like having sex in someone's house, isn't
• 40:15
  it? With the mother next door.
• 40:18
  I think if you listen to my Rolodex of memories, it was But
• 40:26
  I'm a Cheerleader podcast if you need that story.
• 40:28
  If you haven't listened already, Crystal tells a lovely tale.
• 40:32
  Julia, the AC The next morning, Nina wakes up.
• 40:40
  She's all confused. She's a bit hungover.
• 40:42
  She's late, she's got a show to do and.
• 40:44
  She's alone, and the route, the door that she barred shut from
• 40:48
  the inside is still barred shut. Where the hell is Lily?
• 40:51
  So she rushes out and she sees Lily dancing as the Black Swan
• 40:56
  and confronts her about their sexual encounter.
• 41:00
  Lily's like, wait, what? I didn't go home with you.
• 41:03
  Did you have a Lesie dream about me?
• 41:05
  Did you have a lesbian dream about me?
• 41:07
  Was I good? I like that.
• 41:09
  I like her response to it because she's like kind of not
• 41:12
  shaming her. No, no, she's.
• 41:14
  Kind of into it. Yeah, yeah.
• 41:15
  She wants to know what she was like in it.
• 41:16
  Yeah. Because you could imagine in a
• 41:18
  different movie that she'd be like, EW.
• 41:21
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she's not.
• 41:25
  And also it's like, it's really hard to know if that like that
• 41:28
  choice that was made by the writers and like, the creative
• 41:31
  team because obviously they're like men, as we decided.
• 41:33
  And there's lots of, like, gross decisions made in this film.
• 41:36
  Yeah. It's interesting that they
• 41:37
  didn't go with that. Yeah, but yeah, so Nina imagined
• 41:41
  it all, and then she's becoming convinced that Lily is intending
• 41:44
  to replace her, especially after learning that Toma has made Lily
• 41:49
  her alternate. Oh.
• 41:53
  Nina's mysterious injuries and hallucinations grow most more
• 41:56
  severe. Yes, I hope she has.
• 41:58
  She's got like, back scratchy things.
• 42:02
  Her nails are falling off. We're seeing like she's giving
• 42:07
  me like Mystique in X-Men. Yeah, it's kind of like a
• 42:10
  rippling, scaly, feathery thing going on.
• 42:13
  So she's giving like it's like a plucked goose.
• 42:15
  Texture, isn't it? Yeah.
• 42:16
  Like goose. Goose flesh, Yeah.
• 42:18
  Chicken skin. Yeah, she sees Lily and Toma
• 42:22
  having sex. Or does she?
• 42:24
  Toma also turns into Rothberg, the like, evil wizard.
• 42:28
  I don't know. She's having a time.
• 42:30
  She goes to the hospital and sees Winona and is like giving
• 42:34
  back all the things she stole and then Winona starts stabbing
• 42:38
  herself in the face with a letter opener.
• 42:40
  Yeah, that's gross. Isn't it really horrible?
• 42:42
  By this time I'm like, I forgot how body horror all of this is
• 42:45
  and she's really going for it. And again, pretty one note,
• 42:48
  Winona is just stabbing her face, but then she rushes off,
• 42:52
  doesn't she? She runs away and then she's
• 42:54
  she's drops the right. So it's like.
• 42:57
  Did that happen? Probably not.
• 42:58
  Or did she stab her? 00.
• 43:01
  There's a lot. Of when she drops it, is it
• 43:03
  bloody? I don't know, can't remember.
• 43:06
  Yeah. It also like when on his face
• 43:08
  becomes her face right? Yeah.
• 43:10
  And that happens quite a few times.
• 43:11
  And that, you know, I've been there, yeah.
• 43:12
  You've literally been there. Anyway, it all culminates in an
• 43:17
  incident where she believes she's transforming into the
• 43:19
  Black Swan, and she has a huge blowout with her mother.
• 43:24
  She like, slams the door on her mum's hand.
• 43:26
  Oh, that's horrible. And yeah, she's like, basically
• 43:29
  losing her goddamn mind. America attempts to prevent Nina
• 43:34
  from performing on opening night, and they fight some more
• 43:38
  and Nina leaves. She's going to do the show.
• 43:40
  I'm the Swan Queen and you never left the core.
• 43:45
  I think the mum character is quite interesting because like,
• 43:48
  she's obviously overbearing, problematic, a little bit
• 43:51
  abusive, but she obviously also does really care.
• 43:54
  And I think there's an interesting, like they, they
• 43:57
  dial it up and down kind of interestingly.
• 43:59
  Yeah, yeah. Sometimes you're like, oh, this
• 44:00
  mom is like really worried about her daughter and her daughter's
• 44:03
  mental health. But there is a very layered
• 44:06
  relationship because there's also a huge jealousy vibes from
• 44:08
  the daughter obsession. Yeah, yeah.
• 44:10
  It's really weird. Yeah.
• 44:12
  But also like that, that bond, like when she gets accepted into
• 44:15
  the the ballet, she sells her mom and they're like, crying and
• 44:18
  happy. Yeah.
• 44:19
  It's a really toxic, interesting relationship.
• 44:21
  And it's, it could have so easily been much more mommy
• 44:25
  dearest ghoulish. And I like that it's.
• 44:27
  Got exploitation of the mum, but again, you kind of don't know
• 44:30
  where you sit with the mum like she's not and.
• 44:32
  Also, how much of it is like in Nina's head?
• 44:35
  Yeah. So anyway, Lily was prepping to
• 44:37
  go on in Nina's place, but Nina convinces Toma to let her do the
• 44:40
  part. She imagines her toes becoming
• 44:43
  webbed. Towards the end of the ballet's
• 44:46
  first act. Nina is distracted by a
• 44:47
  hallucination and loses her balance during a lift, causing
• 44:50
  the Prince to drop her, infuriating Tama, and she's
• 44:54
  devastated. All of all of her hard work.
• 44:56
  Yeah, yeah. And she?
• 44:57
  Can't even do the White Swan. That's the thing.
• 44:59
  She I. Know exactly like how shit are
• 45:00
  you? You know who can do it?
• 45:03
  Mila Kunis. Right, so Nina returns to her
• 45:06
  dressing room and there is Mila Kunis Lily preparing to play the
• 45:10
  Black Swan in her dressing room. She's like in her.
• 45:13
  Room. Yeah, I know.
• 45:14
  Psycho, isn't she? So she confronts her and as
• 45:18
  they're fighting, Lily transforms into Nina and then so
• 45:21
  then the two ninas are fighting. They break a mirror and Nina
• 45:25
  stabs bad Nina with a Shard of glass, killing her and breaking
• 45:30
  the illusion, and she turns back into Lily.
• 45:33
  And then she drags her dead corpse into the shower room and
• 45:36
  she gets on with the show. Doesn't That's showbiz, kids.
• 45:38
  That's what you've got to do. Sometimes you have to just pick
• 45:41
  up the pieces and go to town. There's always someone younger
• 45:45
  and hungrier coming down the stairs after you.
• 45:48
  The show must go on. She then dances Florida State as
• 45:51
  the Black Swan and she begins to turn into a swan.
• 45:55
  I love as the Black Swan, like the red, the red.
• 45:59
  Eyes the like determination, her face, the the net mask.
• 46:04
  And what I will say is, although like we've been signposted this
• 46:07
  all the way through the film about like, you're too pretty.
• 46:10
  You need to be more seductive, you need to be dangerous, you
• 46:12
  need to lose your technique, it really, she really does.
• 46:15
  And like, the choreography and the movement is suddenly like,
• 46:18
  really different to what we've seen her doing.
• 46:20
  And it's like, beautiful the way it's all shot, isn't it?
• 46:23
  Totally. It's she plays the Nina role so
• 46:27
  annoying, infantile, like you're so you just like want to shake
• 46:31
  her and like tell her to grow up.
• 46:32
  Snap out of it. Stop being like this.
• 46:36
  And it's kind of annoying. But then when you see the other
• 46:38
  side of her, you're like, oh, you were doing a really good job
• 46:40
  of convincing me that that was you.
• 46:42
  Yeah, because when there's a bit where she starts like breathing
• 46:44
  and feeling her body and it's so monstrous and just like it's,
• 46:48
  it's really impressive performance, I think.
• 46:53
  Her arms are covered in feathers, she does the like 34
• 46:56
  turns which are famous in Swan Lake, and she gets a standing
• 46:59
  ovation from the audience and then rushes off stage and kisses
• 47:02
  Tomah. She's like I've embraced the
• 47:06
  dark side. Yeah, I mean that part.
• 47:09
  Grim in her dressing room, she Nina starts to costume change
• 47:15
  back into the white Swan makeup, but she's interrupted by.
• 47:19
  Literally not jealous of that. That must be quite stressful on
• 47:22
  top of what else she's got to go on.
• 47:23
  It's hard when you've done one, when you've done one makeup look
• 47:26
  to go in and out. Changing makeup looks.
• 47:29
  Multiple times. I mean, that's enough to send
• 47:31
  anyone crazy, quite frankly, isn't it?
• 47:33
  Because like, what she'd been setting her face with, you know,
• 47:36
  it's like, not only is she having to perform and become a
• 47:39
  dark song, which she's never been able to achieve before, she
• 47:42
  also has to do her own hair and makeup.
• 47:43
  And I just think I feel quite sorry for.
• 47:45
  So much black gel liner on in that black.
• 47:48
  Black gel liner though it's. Hard to get off that's on you
• 47:52
  for days after. And she's got to go back to
• 47:54
  being the wife. I think that's enough to send
• 47:56
  anyone crazy. You know what?
• 47:57
  You would kill your rival. Killed Liz, I killed the teen
• 48:01
  Dream. Deal with it.
• 48:03
  Yes, that's why you should never go into the cupboards at Bethel
• 48:08
  Green working Men's Club because they are full of dead people.
• 48:12
  Yes, we had no choice. Absolutely.
• 48:14
  It was the makeup. So she's changing back.
• 48:18
  The door knocks. It's Lily.
• 48:20
  She's not dead. She congratulates Nina on her
• 48:22
  performance. But, but, but she's supposed to
• 48:25
  be dead. What's going?
• 48:27
  On. Nina then sees that the mirror
• 48:29
  is still broken. So what's happened?
• 48:32
  And then she the bot, but the body's gone.
• 48:36
  This. And then she looks down and she
• 48:38
  pulls a piece of glass from her stomach, realizing she stabbed
• 48:42
  herself and not Lily. Yuck.
• 48:46
  Yep. Despite her injury, she dances
• 48:49
  the final act of the ballet with blood gradually seeping through
• 48:51
  her costume. And this is giving very goddess
• 48:54
  performance this. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, The
• 49:00
  Stardust proudly presents the White Swan.
• 49:08
  The show ends with her jumping from the set onto a mattress to
• 49:12
  simulate the swan throwing herself off a Cliff.
• 49:14
  Everyone is thrilled. Thunderous applause.
• 49:18
  Everyone rushes to congratulate her.
• 49:20
  And then they realize she's bleeding and it cuts to her
• 49:26
  blood seeping through her costume.
• 49:28
  And she says, I felt it perfect. I was perfect.
• 49:33
  And then the movie fades to white and she seemingly dies.
• 49:37
  Yeah, an interesting ending, isn't it?
• 49:40
  Very interesting because there's quite a few different readings
• 49:43
  on the ending. Yeah.
• 49:44
  So something Natalie Portman has said in later years is that she
• 49:48
  likes to think it was a signal of re rebirth into being a
• 49:53
  woman. And so it's a metaphor.
• 49:56
  Oh. Which is interesting, but maybe
• 49:58
  giving the film a little bit too much credit.
• 50:01
  Well, that's nice. Rather than it being a deaf
• 50:04
  scene, but. Right.
• 50:05
  That would be better. Yeah, I think, I think.
• 50:09
  Do you think maybe that's why she's spun that narrative, to
• 50:12
  try and make this slightly problematic film?
• 50:14
  Yeah, yeah. So maybe, yeah, should we talk
• 50:16
  about the the ending like this transformation and the ending
• 50:19
  because the substance is actually another really.
• 50:22
  I mean, the substance is also falls under.
• 50:24
  Yeah, the younger and hungry are coming down the stairs after
• 50:27
  you. And.
• 50:28
  But that movie ends in a kind of a similar way where it's like
• 50:31
  the character who's been through so much, she's been pushed to
• 50:33
  her limit. She finally snaps.
• 50:35
  But in the substance, it's this cathartic release where she
• 50:39
  punishes everyone who's been bad to her.
• 50:42
  Yeah. And then it ends with her dying.
• 50:44
  But she is like, happy. She's like deluded.
• 50:47
  She's finally free. She's like, like there's a
• 50:50
  catharsis, a joy, a release. And it's like she's punished
• 50:54
  everyone. She's gotten what she wants.
• 50:56
  But yeah, I don't get that from Nina, from Natalie Portman.
• 50:59
  Do you not get, do you not get that she's happy at the last
• 51:01
  ending? Yeah.
• 51:02
  I mean, I'm not saying the journey's been.
• 51:03
  Beating yeah. And it's like, it's like her
• 51:06
  delusion has won rather than she's gotten some kind of
• 51:11
  freedom or power. Well, it's Oh my God, I can't
• 51:15
  believe I'm going to say this. It is that question of like is
• 51:18
  great art only achieved through. Suffering, yeah.
• 51:23
  Literally the most like feels like the most cliche that you
• 51:25
  could say in the world. I don't know if I care or
• 51:27
  believe in that. Yeah, that's definitely like
• 51:29
  what the movie is asking. I don't know.
• 51:34
  I just it's a little simplistic. The whole film is simplistic,
• 51:38
  like the metaphor about, you know, we're going to intertwine
• 51:43
  the story of the ballet, the blacks, the white swan in with
• 51:46
  her story. It's just a bit like, is this
• 51:49
  all you could come up with? You know, it doesn't take any
• 51:51
  twists and turns from that, does it?
• 51:52
  It's like. Totally.
• 51:54
  It's it's it's fine to do that and like especially for a horror
• 51:58
  movie like that's it's a great premise for a horror movie.
• 52:00
  It's just interesting that it ended up with like so much
• 52:03
  critical acclaim. Yes, so much Oscar buzz, all of
• 52:07
  that stuff because. Because what?
• 52:09
  Yeah. Like, the elements of it are
• 52:11
  like, is it just because it's the ballet, you know?
• 52:14
  I mean, because it's like, you know, as much as I enjoyed the
• 52:18
  like, hallucinogenic lesbian scene that is just like Betty if
• 52:23
  ever I've seen it, do you know what I mean?
• 52:24
  There's no like smartness to it. Like smartness.
• 52:29
  But Mila Kunis isn't a particularly deep character.
• 52:35
  Like she doesn't have any. She doesn't have anything to
• 52:38
  her, does she? There's no like turn or twist or
• 52:42
  anything. There's no substance to her
• 52:44
  character. The 0 substance to Winona Ryder.
• 52:47
  The mum's interesting. We don't get to know anything
• 52:49
  about her though, really. And then the creepo teacher.
• 52:53
  Like everyone's pretty one note characters, aren't they?
• 52:55
  Yeah, for sure. It reminds.
• 52:58
  It reminded me of Notes on the Scandal.
• 52:59
  I know you already said that, but yeah, it reminded me of
• 53:02
  Notes on the Scandal. Just in that like kind of trashy
• 53:06
  pulpy story with a high art drag costume on and and like an art
• 53:14
  house aesthetic. Because that's the thing, like
• 53:16
  the twisty bits are done really well, aren't they?
• 53:19
  Like all of the filmography Like because you they're always like
• 53:22
  hidden things, whether it's in like a face hidden somewhere in
• 53:25
  the. Eyes moving in a painting.
• 53:26
  Yeah. Blinking.
• 53:28
  You miss. Like, a very small thing happens
• 53:30
  on her body. But like, yeah, not everything's
• 53:32
  like they again, they've kind of done that very tastefully.
• 53:35
  Yeah. So you are getting like tricked
• 53:36
  into thinking this is like art, but ultimately it's pretty
• 53:42
  basic. It's yeah, it is just an All
• 53:44
  About Eve. It's a Showgirls.
• 53:45
  It's a. And also as well, I feel like
• 53:47
  the other thing that it does is it's like it's clever the way
• 53:51
  that you jump in and out of her reality to start with, but then
• 53:55
  it just becomes so polluting genic, which I guess makes sense
• 53:59
  of what's happening to her, but to the point where it's like
• 54:01
  they can kind of make stuff happen.
• 54:03
  And because they're like, we're not going to explain it because
• 54:05
  it's an art film, they can just kind of get away with being
• 54:08
  sloppy. Like you're making all of these
• 54:10
  big swings, but none of them really mean anything because you
• 54:12
  can argue that it happened or it didn't happen.
• 54:15
  Yeah, there's a lot of get out of jail free.
• 54:17
  Characters and then so by the end you're just like and you
• 54:19
  know, and it's I love an ending that where you're unsure of
• 54:22
  what's happened, but it's like a really smug like what do you
• 54:26
  think? Has she died or is it an another
• 54:29
  hallucination? It's like.
• 54:31
  Yeah, I saw someone else talk about this, but saying that when
• 54:35
  they do like an open-ended thing like that, you want at least to
• 54:38
  think that the director has decided.
• 54:41
  Yeah. And in this case, you're like,
• 54:42
  it feels like he doesn't even know, and that's kind of
• 54:44
  annoying. Yeah, definitely.
• 54:47
  Let's have let's make sure that there is a point because
• 54:50
  otherwise you're just being like, well, what if?
• 54:53
  And it's a kind of edge lordy. And it's like, no, come on,
• 54:56
  like, what do you think? What what is your, what point
• 55:00
  are you making here? And that was like my problem
• 55:02
  with the Tomah character the whole way through because yes, I
• 55:06
  think you're meant to see him as a creep, a sexual predator, like
• 55:10
  all that. But I think it doesn't do a good
• 55:13
  enough job of like, hammering home that he's like part of the
• 55:17
  problem in her life because at the end she kisses him.
• 55:20
  Yeah, there's like weird. Like even when she gets fully
• 55:24
  realized and she finds her power, et cetera, she still goes
• 55:27
  to him. Emissive to him, Yeah.
• 55:29
  And. And it's like he was right all
• 55:31
  along it. Was like, there's a bit of that.
• 55:34
  Everything he was saying, every practice that he employed, it's
• 55:39
  interesting. I was talking to someone the
• 55:40
  other day is like he trained at a clown school of really famous
• 55:44
  like Philip Gullier and he had lots of very like problematic,
• 55:48
  not sexually problematic, but problematic methods of teaching
• 55:51
  people was very brutal, make people cry, upset a lot of
• 55:54
  people and like be seen as this God and it's he died recently
• 55:58
  and a lot of people are devastated because of the
• 56:00
  practice he brought to crowning. But a lot of other people are
• 56:04
  just sort of saying he was really toxic and really mean and
• 56:08
  and sort of continued a lot of behaviours in the industry like
• 56:11
  that. So it's just an interesting.
• 56:14
  Yeah. It's just sort of made me think
• 56:15
  about that. It's just like these people are
• 56:17
  sort of held up in society, but like.
• 56:20
  Awful. Yeah.
• 56:21
  And I guess it's kind of but. They're not making that point.
• 56:24
  I don't think that. Yeah, it's almost like they are
• 56:26
  a bit because they're, but they then.
• 56:29
  They also, I think, I don't think they stray away enough
• 56:34
  from the idea that she kind of wants it.
• 56:36
  Right, right. Yeah.
• 56:38
  There's like a a lot of a lot of that where if you're being
• 56:42
  generous to this movie, you're like, oh, all of her struggles
• 56:45
  are a product of like a problematic mother, the
• 56:48
  pressures put on women, the desire to be perfect, like all
• 56:52
  of these things have combined. But then it doesn't actually
• 56:55
  deliver at the end. And maybe I'm just asking to be
• 56:59
  handled a bit too much on a platter, but like, I wish she'd
• 57:03
  broken free of those things. A really simple fix at the end
• 57:08
  to make it a more satisfying thing for that is she could have
• 57:11
  gone towards him like she was going to go and kiss him and
• 57:13
  then she could have gone to the male lead dancer and just like
• 57:15
  snogged him in front of him and then just like ripped off away
• 57:19
  and then just laugh at the guy like and just be like a bit
• 57:24
  crazy. And that would have just helped
• 57:26
  that, wouldn't it? Yeah, Just like, yeah, it's not
• 57:29
  like he needs to be punished. It's not like it needs to end
• 57:32
  with him being no. It's completely fine to just
• 57:33
  show that that's a horrible character that exists, yeah.
• 57:36
  Yeah, and you know, in real life that man wouldn't be punished
• 57:39
  and he would just stay in as an artistic director and everyone
• 57:42
  would be like, oh, there's rumours about him and blah,
• 57:44
  blah, blah. But yeah, there's there's
• 57:46
  something missing for her character.
• 57:47
  Yeah, because as well, like she doesn't, she never instigated
• 57:50
  like wanting his sexual attention to start with.
• 57:53
  Like you can imagine if she misread the signs in an early
• 57:55
  scene and then tried to kiss him and then it sort of sets the
• 58:00
  seed a little bit that she. But it doesn't.
• 58:02
  The first interaction they have is he's a man in power and then
• 58:06
  he aggressive. Yeah.
• 58:08
  And then he aggressively launches himself on her.
• 58:12
  So, yeah, not camp. No.
• 58:15
  Just in case you were wondering our point, everyone that's
• 58:18
  that's not camp. Yeah.
• 58:20
  And. But spiraling like what?
• 58:23
  Something that is Come to Me is like, I love these smallish
• 58:26
  situations that we all put ourselves into and spiralling
• 58:30
  within them because ultimately it's just about 1 show, isn't
• 58:32
  it? It's not like a bigger issue.
• 58:34
  But I love the kind of melodrama and the the frenzy and the
• 58:37
  hurricane of emotions in like a very simple life thing that is
• 58:41
  Come to Me. Yeah, and like watching, you
• 58:43
  know, someone have like a mental breakdown in a melodramatic way
• 58:48
  on stage. Like, yeah, it's.
• 58:50
  Through dance as well. Yeah, of course.
• 58:52
  That's like, yeah, it's it's fabulous.
• 58:55
  But I wish, I wish she'd gotten her power.
• 58:59
  She can die even at the end. But like, I want her to have
• 59:01
  been like unleashed. Yeah, like if the last shot
• 59:06
  would have been the Black Swan looking up and like that was
• 59:08
  perfect or something, not going back to her being like, because
• 59:13
  that is part of her. The Black Swan was part of her.
• 59:15
  And that's why it was so satisfying to see it get in her,
• 59:18
  wasn't it? Yeah, but like you said, it
• 59:20
  didn't. It didn't lend itself to
• 59:22
  anything other than like, impressing the douchebag.
• 59:25
  Totally. And then the other thing, I
• 59:27
  guess it's kind of related, like this idea that you can either,
• 59:30
  you can either be a virgin or a whore.
• 59:33
  Like those are the 2 mother or whore.
• 59:36
  Like those are the two kinds of women.
• 59:37
  You can be, you can be pure or you can be a slut.
• 59:40
  And like, I think the movie sets that up interestingly.
• 59:44
  And like, OK, great. This movie is going to be an
• 59:46
  interesting examination of like how it's problematic to expect
• 59:49
  people to be one or the other and you can't be both.
• 59:52
  But then it doesn't actually. It's like, no, it doesn't go
• 59:55
  anywhere with that. It's got the same level of like
• 59:57
  character depth as like Grease has in regards to that, right?
• 1:00:01
  Sandy is going to be a bad girl now.
• 1:00:02
  It's like. Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  And so I guess you're kind of seeing like the male writers
• 1:00:06
  over that in that regard a bit. Over the over the talent of the
• 1:00:11
  of like I think Natalie Portman is really good in this, but like
• 1:00:16
  she's there's only so much she can do with the material isn't.
• 1:00:19
  Totally. It's like what?
• 1:00:20
  Because. She like physically, did you
• 1:00:22
  read about like what she did to her body for this?
• 1:00:24
  Like, I think it's something like she trained for three hours
• 1:00:26
  a day for three months, and then that went up to six hours for
• 1:00:31
  like two months. And then for the final stint,
• 1:00:35
  she was like doing 10 hours. She, like, physically, like,
• 1:00:39
  broke herself doing it. Yeah.
• 1:00:42
  So sort of for that kind of, you know, commitment to the role, I
• 1:00:46
  think is. And also she needed to be like
• 1:00:48
  that, didn't she? Because you can tell me the
• 1:00:49
  Kunis isn't really right. You never look at her and go,
• 1:00:52
  oh, wow, she's a ballerina. Do you was with Natalie?
• 1:00:55
  You're like everything about her.
• 1:00:56
  And it's like the way her body's presented as well.
• 1:00:58
  It's like it looks like it's been put through it.
• 1:01:01
  Totally, my husband does ballet he came in towards.
• 1:01:05
  The Black Swan or. White, But he was like, yeah,
• 1:01:08
  she looks, she looks good. Apparently they did CGI her face
• 1:01:11
  onto another dancer quite a lot. And they weren't.
• 1:01:15
  Was the dancer a swan? And they were not about to,
• 1:01:19
  like, talk about that in press because this is part of the
• 1:01:22
  Oscar pitch. You're like, yeah, incredible.
• 1:01:25
  Yeah, and the fucking storyline I've just been fed about like
• 1:01:28
  what she did go and do. Yeah, so the dancer who was her
• 1:01:30
  body double has come out and been like, fuck this movie.
• 1:01:33
  They didn't give me the credit I deserve.
• 1:01:35
  Like, yeah, she looks good from the waist up, but anything else
• 1:01:38
  you see is me. Oh.
• 1:01:39
  Fuck her. Yeah.
• 1:01:41
  Yeah, well, so. It's, you know, probably a bit
• 1:01:44
  of truth in both. I don't know what else.
• 1:01:48
  I mean, if you obviously like when a film is pitched like this
• 1:01:51
  and that, you know, like as you said, there was a whole Oscars
• 1:01:53
  campaign, they would never not going for an Oscar award-winning
• 1:01:57
  film. Yes.
• 1:01:59
  And when can you just like, put that stuff to the side?
• 1:02:03
  Like, you know, we've talked about like kind of the
• 1:02:05
  problematic things. If you just watch this as like
• 1:02:07
  another Show Girls thing, can you just view it as being purely
• 1:02:10
  camp and stupid? Yeah, that's how I thought.
• 1:02:13
  I was just like. It's not like a feel good movie
• 1:02:16
  in the same way. I think because Natalie Portman
• 1:02:20
  does a great job of portraying someone having a mental
• 1:02:23
  breakdown and like you really see all the pain she's going
• 1:02:27
  through. It's, it's not a romp to watch,
• 1:02:32
  but it is fun. It's a fun movie to like, think
• 1:02:34
  about and like, I like having it in my brain, like kind of
• 1:02:36
  percolating and it's. Pacey You kind of don't get
• 1:02:39
  bored with it, do you? Yeah, the horror stuff is really
• 1:02:42
  effective, I think, like. Yeah.
• 1:02:43
  And it hasn't really dated. I think in terms of it like the
• 1:02:46
  way you watch it, you're like, Oh yeah, this is, I thought the
• 1:02:49
  substance as well. And again, like, interesting
• 1:02:51
  that no one's really that I've heard like because there's lots
• 1:02:54
  of comparisons, but I've not really mentioned anyone with
• 1:02:58
  black this one. And yeah, let's say Black Widow,
• 1:03:01
  the Rita Ora and Nicky Azalea song, but black song and the
• 1:03:04
  substance. But yeah, no, I thought and
• 1:03:07
  yeah, overall, I just thought it, you know, it's just, it's
• 1:03:11
  got oomph, hasn't it? It's got yeah, and it's.
• 1:03:13
  But it's basic. It is like it.
• 1:03:15
  It's a film that thinks it's way better than it is and way more
• 1:03:17
  complicated than it is, because it's really very, very simple to
• 1:03:20
  follow. It's not.
• 1:03:21
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels a bit like The Academy
• 1:03:24
  Is like, oh, they've made a good horror movie, everyone And.
• 1:03:28
  And we're kind of easily dazzled by that.
• 1:03:32
  Yeah. Because it's not.
• 1:03:34
  It's like, oh, a genre film is getting is good like.
• 1:03:37
  But if she was a stripper and it was exactly the same script.
• 1:03:40
  Right. Well, head over to the Gatreon
• 1:03:43
  for our episode on striptease. And we like covering all of the
• 1:03:47
  dancing films we haven't done. What's it?
• 1:03:51
  I was about to say? Chases.
• 1:03:53
  It's not called chases. That's a funny name for a film.
• 1:03:57
  The one Jlo Hustlers. Hustlers.
• 1:04:00
  Yes, I love hustlers. Actually, we should cover
• 1:04:02
  Hustlers. Yeah, because you're right.
• 1:04:04
  It's it is just girls gone wild, catfights pushing down the
• 1:04:10
  stairs like there can only be one woman.
• 1:04:13
  We better fight. It does break 1 trope but I'm
• 1:04:17
  not here for we all know Sue gives a fuck.
• 1:04:20
  Said it. They can't have the same colour
• 1:04:23
  hair with their enemies. I mean that's just like the
• 1:04:25
  rules of feminism. And I know that meal is a bit
• 1:04:28
  more of like I don't know, she's got a bit of an all Bernie like
• 1:04:32
  Blondie multi layered caramel tone to her hair.
• 1:04:35
  But ultimately they both have dark hair.
• 1:04:38
  Where is the blonde and where is?
• 1:04:39
  I'm surprised in this film they didn't go that literal.
• 1:04:43
  That's so true. But I guess that's what that's
• 1:04:46
  what the Academy was picking up on.
• 1:04:49
  These big risks, these big swings.
• 1:04:51
  I've never seen anything like it before.
• 1:04:53
  This movie stars three women with brown hair.
• 1:04:55
  And the innocent virgin has dark hair.
• 1:04:58
  I hate her outfits. Can I say Natalie Portman when
• 1:05:02
  she's good girl? She's dressed like Melania
• 1:05:05
  Trump, like pink tweed and like feathery scarves.
• 1:05:11
  Oh yeah, she is, isn't she? Oh yeah.
• 1:05:14
  Awful. I'm glad that we got that point
• 1:05:17
  there. How?
• 1:05:18
  Am I supposed to have sympathy for this character when you're
• 1:05:20
  wearing a pink tweed coat and like a floofy feather boa?
• 1:05:24
  Gross. The rules of feminism.
• 1:05:26
  Anyway, what about the lesbian stuff?
• 1:05:29
  Lesbians are great nowadays, I mean.
• 1:05:32
  It's great to see. We'd love to see it.
• 1:05:34
  I think this was a lesbian awakening for a lot of people,
• 1:05:37
  this movie. Yeah, it's hot.
• 1:05:38
  It's hot, yeah, but. It doesn't really feel like it's
• 1:05:41
  earned, does it? No, and it's and it doesn't feel
• 1:05:44
  like it's unlocking anything in Natalie Portman.
• 1:05:47
  No, it's kind of annoying that way.
• 1:05:48
  It feels a little bit like if we get them to kiss, it will get
• 1:05:53
  people to and. The wild girl just doesn't care
• 1:05:56
  about that, even though she's she doesn't do it like you know,
• 1:05:58
  she's just I make out with girls all the time.
• 1:06:01
  It doesn't. Whereas again, there's something
• 1:06:03
  quite powerful really and like her first big orgasm and the
• 1:06:07
  unlocking is through a woman, but they've just kind of I mean,
• 1:06:12
  it's a deep it's a deep dive that media is doing.
• 1:06:14
  She is eating her out. That is eating someone out.
• 1:06:18
  Like you can feel the like the tongue is scraping her very thin
• 1:06:25
  body is right to the back, almost poking out of her bum
• 1:06:31
  hole. But yeah, it is like male gaze
• 1:06:37
  lesbian is a. Little bit and the fact that I
• 1:06:39
  guess that it's like, oh, it was it all a dream it was all a
• 1:06:41
  dream means that like they're they can kind of do the
• 1:06:44
  lesbianism without ever having to actually interrogate like
• 1:06:47
  what that would mean for totally.
• 1:06:49
  Characters and again it doesn't link to.
• 1:06:51
  It doesn't link to anything. And there's not, You don't ever
• 1:06:54
  get a sense of her being sexually interested in Mila
• 1:06:57
  Kunis or after. And then as we said, the last
• 1:07:01
  big moment that happens is she kisses the guy again.
• 1:07:03
  So it's not saying that she couldn't be bisexual, but it's
• 1:07:06
  just it implies that she just wants his.
• 1:07:09
  Yeah, it feels a bit chucked in. Yeah, that's annoying.
• 1:07:13
  But like, if you love this movie because you think it's hot and
• 1:07:16
  you're a lesbian, then, like, more power to you.
• 1:07:19
  Yeah. Fair enough.
• 1:07:20
  Yeah, totally. Carpet munchers.
• 1:07:24
  OK, should we rate this movie? Yes.
• 1:07:28
  Let's start with Merrill's one to 10 Merrill's for the quality
• 1:07:32
  of the movie. Well, are we going to argue with
• 1:07:34
  the Academy here? I think I'm going to rate it
• 1:07:37
  pretty high. Go on, you go first.
• 1:07:40
  I'm kind of in like a 7 or 8 frame of mind.
• 1:07:42
  I'm going to give it a 7 1/2. Yeah.
• 1:07:44
  I think it's well made. I think it's a delight to watch.
• 1:07:47
  I think it's well acted. I think it's gripping.
• 1:07:49
  I think the cinematography is good and effective.
• 1:07:52
  I feel really uneasy watching it.
• 1:07:54
  The dancing's great. It's not as good as it thinks it
• 1:07:56
  is. No, but who is right?
• 1:08:00
  No, I agree with you. I'm going to give it a 7.
• 1:08:01
  But like, it's it's a really, it's a shame that it's written
• 1:08:05
  by men and it's a shame there's a male director that that really
• 1:08:09
  sort of sours it because you just think this subject matter,
• 1:08:13
  this concept with like a few more female voices behind the
• 1:08:18
  scenes, it probably would have had some more nuance, which it
• 1:08:20
  lacks, Yeah, which would have made it a really great film.
• 1:08:23
  But it is beautiful. Cinematography is great.
• 1:08:26
  It hasn't dated. And I love, I love the way the
• 1:08:28
  choreography is. I think it's just, yeah, it's
• 1:08:31
  really watchable as well. I watch it again.
• 1:08:33
  Absolutely. So Seven.
• 1:08:34
  Yes, great. Groundbreaking.
• 1:08:37
  OK, what about Liza's? How camp is this movie?
• 1:08:41
  I think I need to refer to the the criteria which I know you
• 1:08:45
  know off the top of your head. Yeah, but does it give you a
• 1:08:49
  wetty? Sometimes the, like, the queer
• 1:08:52
  joy, I think is tempered by like, the problems you can see.
• 1:08:57
  Yeah. It's also like it's not joyous
• 1:09:00
  to watch a woman suffer like. No, and also as well.
• 1:09:03
  It's not queer joy. It's just like queers gazing in
• 1:09:05
  other people's joys. Yeah.
• 1:09:07
  Do you know what I mean? It's straight joy.
• 1:09:08
  Yeah. It's not my joy to joy about,
• 1:09:12
  but I'm looking in and I'm still getting some joy from it.
• 1:09:14
  But it's not. It's not my joy.
• 1:09:16
  Yeah, it's again, like, I think comparing it to the substance,
• 1:09:19
  if she'd had like, her queer breakthrough moment at the end
• 1:09:23
  of the movie and she'd been like, Dark Phoenix, just like,
• 1:09:27
  fucking shit up, going after Mila Kunis, like kissing her.
• 1:09:31
  Killing, yeah, killing someone on stage.
• 1:09:33
  Just like, really. Fucking not being a victim, not
• 1:09:35
  being the fucking White Swan all of your life.
• 1:09:38
  Yeah. And then just like basking in
• 1:09:40
  the applause, but like, we know that she's just fucked someone
• 1:09:43
  up backstage, killed him, whatever.
• 1:09:45
  I'd be like, that is queer. Joy.
• 1:09:46
  That's queer joy. Yeah.
• 1:09:48
  So this is straight joy, right? It's not.
• 1:09:50
  Stupid. Well, it is, but it's it.
• 1:09:52
  Is stupid. But it is but.
• 1:09:54
  It isn't dumb dumb. It's like, yeah, here's this
• 1:09:57
  kooky idea. They're gonna this main story
• 1:09:59
  and the plot. But it's it's not.
• 1:10:01
  OK. Yeah, you're right, but it's not
• 1:10:02
  stupid fun in the way I normally consider.
• 1:10:04
  Oh, it's not stupid fun. It's stupid.
• 1:10:06
  It's not stupid fun. Underdog Flop No.
• 1:10:11
  No. Ongoing legacy, yeah.
• 1:10:14
  Has it been reclaimed by the the queers?
• 1:10:17
  I don't think it has. When I think about, it's like a
• 1:10:21
  notes on the scandal, when I think there's something meta,
• 1:10:24
  queer meta camp about it because it was like this kind of trashy
• 1:10:28
  movie that got so celebrated and it's like people acting their
• 1:10:32
  fucking tits off in this movie that is actually kind of tawdry.
• 1:10:37
  Yeah. And there's something camp about
• 1:10:38
  that. Yeah.
• 1:10:39
  And like it's always there is always going to be a camp Ness
• 1:10:42
  to two women fighting over one spot on the stage.
• 1:10:46
  But also as well the facts, you can watch it and it is basically
• 1:10:49
  Showgirls and knowing that they put all of that effort into this
• 1:10:52
  film and ultimately it is still Showgirls that is quite camp
• 1:10:56
  that. Is camp.
• 1:10:57
  OK, I'm going to give it 7. Oh wow.
• 1:11:01
  I think it is. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:03
  OK, great. I'll give it a 7 too.
• 1:11:06
  Yeah. It's just a different type of
• 1:11:07
  camp that we don't often touch it on, but yeah.
• 1:11:10
  I feel like we explained all the reasons why it wasn't camp, but
• 1:11:12
  then we gave it a really high score.
• 1:11:14
  But you know what? Sometimes it's a feeling.
• 1:11:16
  Stupid, isn't it? Yeah.
• 1:11:19
  Losing your mind over ballet, I mean.
• 1:11:20
  Sometimes you know the criteria is just a guide and.
• 1:11:24
  It's a feeling. It's a feeling.
• 1:11:26
  It's a feeling. Well, there you go.
• 1:11:28
  That's Black Swan. That's not.
• 1:11:32
  The name of that is the name of Swan Lake Black Swan.
• 1:11:36
  I'm very confused. I'm going to go and get a mirror
• 1:11:38
  and smash it and shove it into your stomach now or am I?
• 1:11:43
  Great, and I'm going to go try and eat myself out.
• 1:11:46
  Yes, I recommend it. Seriously, get yourself to that
• 1:11:50
  club. It's good, good time.
• 1:11:53
  Bye. Get away from her you bitch.
• 1:11:57
  Classic. He was in the Amazon with my mom
• 1:12:01
  when she was researching spiders right before she died.
• 1:12:04
  You thought you become a prostitute or a dog at it.
• 1:12:12
  I used to love doggy chow. I used to love doggy chow too.