Latest / The Chiro Money Show / 043 | How Much Is Your Advisor Costing You — and What Do You Get in Return?
Transcript
- Chris: Welcome back to the Cairo Money Show, where we're helping chiropractors make better financial decisions so they can build stability in their finances and a lifestyle that they love. We're your hosts, Chris Sheel and Scott Campbell, financial planners with Align Wealth. Scott: Let's just dive in right with the question, Chris. First Chris: All right, let's do it. Scott: shout out to to your chiropractor, Dr. Darren. Chris: Yeah, but let's go. Scott: Legend. We love Dr. Darren. Question for you though, Chris, when you go see your chiropractor, Dr. Darren, you know exactly what you're going to pay for that adjustment Chris: Yep. Scott: and you know what you're gonna get out of it, right? Is that fair to say? Chris: Yeah, totally fair. Scott: And typically speaking, after that adjustment, you probably have an idea of when you're probably gonna see Dr. Darren next. Chris: Yeah. He usually reminds me before like as I'm leaving the table and if he doesn't, then when I walk past the front desk they remind me when I'm coming to Scott: Nice. Chris: see them next. Scott: Sounds like they have some good good systems in place to make sure you come back in time. Yeah. Chris: yeah. Good systems, yeah. Scott: Ultimately though there's there's transparency there. Like you know what you're gonna pay and you know what you're gonna receive and you know what you what to expect next in terms of the next Chris: Yep. Yeah. Totally. Scott: time you're gonna be in, right? Chris: Yeah. And well ahead, like with with the care plan that he has us on, it's like we know if we're we're going for a scan or, you know, rescan if we're like at where we're at in the care plan. And Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: yeah, there's different costs associated for some of those things and we know about those ahead of time too. Yeah. Scott: For sure. And obviously this there's a lot of transparency in terms of what you're gonna pay, what to expect. And I could name a lot of different examples of where that's where that's the case, but where that's typically not the case is in the land of financial advisory, planning, financial services. I don't think the waters could be any more any more muddy than they are in terms of the varying levels of Different types of advisors doing different types of services, charging in different ways, and ultimately what I would probably say across the board, across Canada, is that there's probably a lot of Canadians unsure of how much they're paying, what they're getting for that service, and there's a lot to be like kind of questions. There's a lot of confusion around that. Would you agree? Yeah. Chris: Yeah, a hundred percent. Most I don't think most people know, like, just to he compare it to chiropractic, you know what an adjustment costs. If that's sixty bucks or whatever it is, like you know that off the top of your head. If we if you polled Canadians that work with an advisor, how much you're paying your advisor, I don't think anyone would have that number right there readily available. Scott: unlikely, for sure. So I think the what we're trying to get to with this conversation today is like we we're not we want to kind of just bring some transparency to the to the conversation in terms of helping our listeners better understand kind of the landscape of the financial advisor planner world, like what you should be expecting today in 2026 from your advisor, understanding kind of how certain advisors get paid and compensated. But before we get there, I I wanna ask you something else, Chris. doctor Darren, he he's a chiropractor, a doctor of chiropractic. You n you know that he went to to school and had to get those he had to earn those credentials, right? Chris: Yeah. Scott: So this is a true story. Like you you we could pick any we could pick anyone. let's use your your your dad for example. If he wanted to, he could he could hang up a shingle tomorrow and call himself a financial advisor. Could he not? Like nothing wrong with that. He's a savvy guy. Yeah, he knows his he knows his Chris: Yep. He's pretty he's pretty savvy. He he'd do all right. Scott: stuff. He knows his stuff. Right? But the point being is that like anyone anyone in Canada right now can legally use the term that they can like or the title I should say that they can call themselves a financial advisor, But not anyone can call themselves a doctor of chiropractic or a chiropractor, right? Chris: Yeah. Scott: Not anyone can call themselves a lawyer. Not anyone calls can call themselves a a CPE or accountant, It's interesting, the financial services in Canada, like there's less regulatory kind of there's no what's the right terminology, Chris? There's no Yeah, title protection. Yeah. Chris: title title protection or yeah, like it it's starting, like Ontario has kind of started to to try to go about this, but it hasn't been done well yet. Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: So there currently there's there's more or less nothing in Canada, like at the moment. Scott: Yeah. Yeah. Chris: which is yeah, it's frustrating because yeah, y you know, if you see an advisor out there that, you know, you think you might want to work with, like you don't have any baseline level of like trust or bel like understanding that they have have the competency and the skills to do real financial planning or advising work. Scott: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, in in certain cases, like to start a career as a financial advisor, you don't necessarily need a ho you don't need a a four year degree or like you could you could really just kind of go do a crash course on whether that getting your insurance license or getting your mutual fund license. Obviously there's some some work that you need to do to study for those exams and pass them and and get the proper certifications to then I I essentially sell products to the public and then call yourselves whatever you want. I won't I won't name any firms, but I remember back like it was probably ten years ago or so, I had someone that I that I used to work with back in my in my restaurant days, and she had moved into the financial advisory space, like and within about a month I saw her on LinkedIn and her title was Senior Financial Advisor. I'm like, Girl, you've been in this industry for about a month or so, like but you can call yourself whatever you want. So it's just maybe in some cases misleading, but also Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Scott: just like Just the added confusion of like what people can expect from a financial advisor, Chris: Yep. Yeah. We won't pick on firms here, but I'm guessing it was probably one of those firms that said, You can do your training and get certified in a weekend. And go through your weekend course and call yourself Scott: Yes. Chris: an advisor and start earning earning money. Scott: Yeah, you're not you're not wrong about that. Chris: Yeah. And that kind of leads us into our next point probably, the ways that advisors get paid. And Scott: Yep. Yeah. Let's dive into those. Let's let's talk about kind of the th I we I think we boiled it down to kind of three primary ways an advisor gets paid. And before we even get into these three points, I think it's probably we'll we'll we'll mention this later, but at the end of the day, the point that we're looking to kind of make here and kind of help bring some clarity to our listeners is I think it's really important to understand how much am I actually paying in dollar terms. Like like full transparency on what I'm paying in total. That's pretty straightforward, right? And then what am I getting for it? That's what we're trying to ultimately get to in this conversation of like understanding what kind of advisor am I working with? How do they get compensated? How much am I getting paid? What service am I getting for those dollars that I'm paying? That's what we're ultimately trying to kind of uncover here. Chris: 100%. And we're not trying to pick on like ways that advisors charge or how much they charge. Like at the end of the day, you can have an advisor chart that charge a charges a thousand dollars a year or that charges ten thousand dollars a year. Scott: Yeah. Chris: If they're providing value equivalent to the the fee that they're charging, great. That's all that's all we're trying to get at is like, are you getting a fair return for the cost of that service as an Scott: For sure. For sure. Yep. Chris: individual? Yeah. Alright, so let's look at the three ways a typical advisor gets paid. Scott: Talk about the most common one first, Chris. Go for Chris: Yeah. Scott: that one. Chris: Alright, okay, so bank bank style. you know, we've I think we talked about this on a recent episode how still three quarters almost of Canadians have most of their investment dollars at a major like a big bank in Canada. Most of those yeah. Scott: Yep. I think I may be might might be more than that, but at least that. Chris: Yeah, at least three quarters. So this is probably the most common. So you're working with a bank advisor, that bank advisor is possibly you know paid commission for the the essentially the mutual funds that they are advising to clients. Or maybe they're just paid a salary and the bank itself is the one collecting the fees. But Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: inevitably in this case, the most common thing to see is a high MER or management expense ratio that is baked into the fund that you are invested in as a client of the bank. so usually these these MERs management expense ratios are in the two and a half percent range, two percent range at these big banks and it's kinda like an invisible you know fee in a lot of cases. It might not even be fully disclosed by by the banks, even though they're supposed to. and you you don't see this on your statements yet. That might be coming. it probably is. I'm not all up to date on, you know, what Canada's requiring on on statements and and disclosure for this, but I have heard it's it's probably coming. But yeah, basically that fee is deducted before your returns. So if the fund returns seven percent and there's a two percent fee, you're gonna see a five percent return. And that Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: two percent is already deducted and paid to the fund company. Scott: Yeah. It's like just a lack of transparency, right? And maybe d not to necessarily the fault of the advisors, just kind of the structure that they're in is that they're kind of embedding the total total fees into one overall fee. Like the the cost of actually managing said fund that you are invested into, and also the method of paying the advisor p a portion of that two or two and a half percent for the advisory work or planning work that they are doing for managing that account and managing the relationship, right? Chris: Yep, for sure. Scott: So the like you said, Chris, like the probably the biggest I think issue that I s I the biggest issue I see with it is that Like you said, there's no line item on your statement where you can clearly see that this is what I've paid in total in terms of fees. I bel that is coming in I believe early twenty twenty seven with s what's referred to as CRM three. It's a new kind of regulatory thing across Canada. I think it's gonna be early twenty twenty seven kind of indicating what you've paid in fees in twenty twenty six is my understanding, which should have more clear breakdowns of that total fee that you're paid and paying and what where that's kind of broken down in terms of costs, what's going to your advisor, etc. So there is Chris: Mm-hmm. Scott: more transparency coming around the corner, but up until up until kind of this point, most people don't know what they're paying as a total fee, as it's kind of just embedded, you get your return, and there's nothing on your statement indicating what you've paid on in in total fees. Right? Chris: Yeah. Yep. And no kind of difference between, you know what you're paying and like obviously there's a cost in creating these funds, right? Like you've a fund manager that has like packaged up this fund with all these underlying companies in it and that fund is, you know, has a specific purpose. Like obviously there's a cost to creating that. But then Scott: Yeah. Chris: there's the cost of like the advisory side of like, hey, rec making the right recommendations, understanding the client's needs, where they're at, they're, you know, making the correct assessment on their risk capacity and tolerance for risk and doing the real financial planning work. So Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: in this case, yeah, th those funds are not separated in any way. And oftentimes it it can lead to a lack of accountability on the advisor, on the advisor side of like, hey, like what are they providing for the financial planning work? And that kind of leads us into the next more common compensation model, which is an advice only model. which is a either a f like a flat annual fee or an hourly fee. and this is just strictly for financial advice. It is completely separate of product. So whether you have a mutual fund or ETF or stocks, like a lot of DIY investors, do-it-yourself investors, tend to gravitate towards this style of advice only because it's transparent. It's direct. It's like yeah I pay X dollars, I receive this service and that's separate of the investment portion. Scott: Yeah, no no no insurance insurance products being implemented, no investment management being done. You're strictly paying for essentially someone's time in most cases to deliver maybe a financial plan in a one-time situation. Like here's your financial plan. I'm gonna go through that with you. And then it's on that individual to then implement any said recommendations that are in that financial plan. There's obviously different different variations of advice only where there's could be monthly, monthly kind of work being done or quarterly check-ins. Like obviously there's a whole different slew of different advice only planners doing different service models, but The main key difference here is that it's separated from any sort of implementation of investments or insurance. Which is is that fair to say? Yeah. Yeah. Chris: Yep. Yep, usually. Yep. Yeah, you're really paying for time and expertise of that professional. And in in that case, these advice-only planners tend to be more qualified. It's hard to, you know, convince someone to pay you two hundred dollars an hour for a financial planner that has done a weekend course and s and you know, left the restaurant industry a month ago. whereas someone that has, you know, various designations and track record, you know that is more likely to yeah, to happen in this case. Scott: What I what I typically see is that they're often they're often a certified financial planner in most cases. Not always, but I would say the larger majority of cases, they have at least have their CFP along with some other designations as well. And what I typically find with most advice only planners is that they are like financial planning nerds at heart. Like they they love to put it put together they love putting to their financial plans. They love, you know Building that all out, the relationship side, getting in the weeds and like delivering a real great financial plan to the client, but they don't want to do any sort of like, you know, they don't want to have anything to do with like investment management or helping a client implement insurance. Like they want nothing to do with that. They just wanna deliver advice and that's it and get paid for it. Nothing wrong with that. Yep. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, no, it's it can be a good model for the right for the right person. Yeah. Yeah. Scott: For sure. Yep. So the last last kind of model that we'll kind of touch on today would be kind of referred to as maybe fee fee only, fee based. I think there's some muddied water there in terms of what you call that. We'll call it for the sake of the conversation kind of fee only. The point here is that it it there's a there's a group of advisors or planners in Canada who will separate the cost of the product from the fee that they're getting that they that they're charging for their advisory or planning work. Is that a good way to describe that, Chris? Like there's a separation, Chris: Yeah. Scott: there's transparency of like here's the MER on the ETS or funds that we're going to implement for you. And there's a separate percentage often a percentage fee or a percentage fee plus planning fee for the cost of advice and and implementation. Chris: Yeah. Yeah, see it's like it it's almost like that advice only side where it's a transparent direct fee, whether that's a direct like dollar amount or a percentage fee of a bank account. are of an investment account pardon me. So you you do have that side of it and then that advisor is often also managing the investments. So then there is that component of okay there are some fees associated with those accounts and the Scott: That's right. Chris: funds that are you know being selected. Scott: Yep. We're obviously biased as that's the that's the type of that's the methodology that we use in terms of of of charging for our financial planning and advisory work or wealth management work with clients. The reason why we think it's a very transparent way of charging for advice is that from a product standpoint on the investment side, we're not paid directly from any sort of fund provider or ETF provider. It we're We're looking for to use the funds that we think are the best best fund for the client in terms of their risk tolerance and and goals and et cetera. And then we're just charging our fees separately. So a lot of cases, some of those fund managers that, you know, in that first kind of bank model, or if you kind of are using those those products that have the higher fee, oftentimes that comes with a lot of whining and dining from the fund managers because there's incentives and kind of like things that fund managers will do to kind of incentivize. advisors to use those funds because the fees are all kind of baked in and there's sometimes some back end commissions or or things kind of going on at that front. So we Chris: Yeah. Scott: think it's really important that the fund is if you're if you're paying for advice that at the end of the day it's it's a transparent fee that you know exactly what you're paying for the advice portion versus the products that you're invested into. Chris: At the end of the day, like we said, it all comes down to a a simple test. Regardless of how like what of these three you fall into, can you see the cost that you're paying? Is it clear? That's what really matters to our listeners. Scott: Yep. That's right. Yep. And like we said, we we we're not we're definitely not here to pick on any one of these models. They all can they all potentially can deliver a positive result to the end investor or client. But like you know, like for example, if we talk about the the bank advisory side, where maybe sometimes the fees are not as as clear or as as transparent, two things may happen. One, the the client just may not know what they're paying in in if in terms of a total fee to their advisor. Whether they're paying a small fee because they have a smaller portfolio or a very large fee because maybe they have a quite sizable half you know, half million, million dollar plus portfolio, they could be paying a pretty sizable fee. In that respect, there's there's also we know we know bank advisors that maybe we might not be aligned from a an investment philosophy standpoint, but they might be doing really good financial planning work and glip delivering great advice and seeing their clients on a regular basis. And in that case, you know, there could be still a good exchange of value from a fees paid to the advisor for the work that or for the advice and support that they're getting. But on the flip side, we also see the contrary where we've we've met with new potential clients who have been working kind of with advisors that are in that type of model where they are paying thousands of dollars a year in fees that they're kind of unaware of. And the service, when we ask, well, what are you getting for that right now? And that's where there's a lot to be desired in terms of like, I'm not sure when I'm going to see my advisor next, or maybe I see him or her once a year and we do kind of a check-in, review the portfolio, maybe we move some. funds around but there's no like we're gonna talk about like what you should be expecting from an advisor today in twenty twenty six and what we often find is that people are not getting that in a lot of cases, Chris: Yep, yep, for sure. So in our opinion, managing money is is essentially a commodity. Like managing investment accounts is is it's been commoditized. Especially if if like us you believe that investing is a problem that has been solved. There are no tricks. There there's no special sauce. It is simply a balanced, diversified portfolio. Ideally, that tilts towards segments that have shown that outperformance over the long term. it's really simple, investing, Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: investing part. So if that's been commoditized, what are we actually paying for? What should we be paying for? Scott: Mm. Chris: It's not the stock picking, it's not the fund picking. What is it, Scott? Scott: Yeah, it's it's it's everything else. Everything else in your in your life that has a dollar sign kind of associated with it, and even all those dollar signs and those those different areas of your financial life, those are tied to what you want out of life, your goals, the life that you're trying to live today, what you want in the future, what you want for your children, all that's tied to money. And whether that be your corporation and putting together the appropriate income and tax strategy from from paying yourself from your corporation, or looking at your personal cash flow. In a lot of detail, or getting into the weeds of looking at your profit and loss with your corporation, getting into the big picture kind of financial projections of retirement planning. Like the list goes on. Tax planning, we get into more investment philosophy and and understanding that and insurance and risk management and estate planning. Like I could continue to go on and on, Chris, but There's a lot to talk about when it comes to money. Like it's always an ongoing conversation. Like what's top of mind right now? What's what are the unique problems and challenges that you're facing right now in life? How can we maybe make some adjustments to your financial plan or what's going on to help you move forward, making great financial decisions? That's what, that's what we feel the real value is in in in aligning yourself and partnering with a financial advisor planner that's doing all that kind of, for the lack of better term, comprehensive, kind of holistic planning. Work. Chris: Mm-hmm. Scott: Investment management, the actual like managing of accounts, I think there's a there's there's a value add in that in terms of like taking that off someone's plate, in terms of like managing it, making sure trades are being done, making sure contributions are being made, kind of someone, a third party managing it for for you on your behalf can be a value Chris: Wi Scott: add. Chris: without emotion. Scott: without the emotional piece of you trying to do it yourself. But it has to, like we always strongly say, like that investment management piece as a standalone value, like a value proposition, that's not what you need today in 2026. If that's the value prop of an advisor, say, hey, I'll manage your money and we'll get get together once a year and we'll we'll manage we'll review your funds and your performance. I don't know. I I I I know I wouldn't Chris: Missing the boat. Scott: be paying what a lot of those advisors are charging just for investment management in twenty twenty six. I'd want everything else that I just mentioned on top of that. Chris: Well, especially as we know the likelihood of them those advisors delivering the performance that they often are quoting or, you know, spouting off about. Like the if that's the value prop, it's usually followed up by like, hey, come work with me because I can beat the returns that you've been getting over the e last X number of years. We know that that's not a great proposition. Based on what the evidence shows and historical returns. Scott: Yep, for sure. Chris: The only part I would add in there, you kind of touched on it, but every one of our listeners, you know, if you're an incorporated business owner, incorporated chiropractor, you need a financial team. You likely already have a CPA, you likely already have a bookkeeper. If you don't, just do yourself a favor and go hire a bookkeeper. And you need us, you need your financial planners. And having a team that works to like collaboratively on your behalf is so powerful. Right? Not only is it bringing extra experience, different expertise, different communication styles to your to your life, to your business, you know, we're also holding holding each other accountable, right? When I I think of the the conversations we have with with our kind. clients, accountants, and bookkeepers and it's like, hey, you said you were gonna do this. Like, where is that? It's like the client's not chasing that down. We're chasing that down often for the client and saying, Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: hey, why why isn't why aren't things updated? Like we need an update. Scott: Yep, for sure. Chris: You know, that's huge. That's huge. Scott: Yep, you're not wrong. I think at at the end of the day, like we said to start the conversation off with, there's various different ways advisors get paid in the world of financial advisory and planning. there's a lot of different titles out there in terms of what they can call themselves. Chris, why don't you tell us a little bit if if you were if you were a chiropractor, Obviously we're biased in terms of our service and what we do, but even if you run a chiropractor, if you're just looking for a financial advisor planner in today's world, what questions, what would you be looking for in terms of making a decision to either hire an advisor and then maybe you can follow that up with if you're currently working with an advisor and you feel like there's a just a little bit of unsureness or clarity around what you're paying and what you're getting, what kind of kind of questions would you consider asking? Chris: yeah, for me personally, if I was looking to to hire an advisor, I would first be looking for a relational fit. that would be paramount for me. It's like, is this a person I'm gonna be excited about connecting with for the rest of my life? Like I'm gonna potentially meet with this person multiple times a year f over the next twenty years. Scott: Such a great first point. I love it. Like I was hoping you weren't gonna start off with some sort of credentials or something like that. It has to be the right relationship first. Like you Chris: Yeah. Scott: have to there has to be that human relational component, especially if if you're doing the good work and seeing each other on a regular basis throughout the year, like Just like how we wouldn't want to work a with a with a jerk of a client that is no fun to work with. Same thing with the on the on the client side. Like they don't want to work with with an advisor that they're like, I don't know if I really like him or her. Like we don't really jive, Like that has to be the first component of it, right? Chris: Was it that la last week we were meeting with a client talking about a potential referral? And we're like, our policy is no jerks allowed. Yeah. Right. So Scott: Yeah, that's it. Yeah. First first point. No jerks allowed. Chris: if I'm looking for an advisor, they can't be a jerk. Gotta gotta we gotta fit relationally. After that, then I would look to the services they provide. So what what is it that you are gonna deliver for me? Is it Is there something specific you're gonna deliver for me in the first three months of us working together? And then what about annually? What about after that? What about after we do the all the heavy lifting and like get a plan in place? What does that look like from an ongoing perspective? When when do I hear from you? What do you give me? What can I expect? Scott: Yep. Clear expectations. You know what you know what to expect. You're like onboarding though maybe it's early in the engagement and also what's gonna happen year over year over year. Chris: Yep. Then yeah, I mean kind of added in with some of these with those first two points would be like what is our style? Like are we are we virtual? Are we in person? Is it a mix? you know that would be important to me as well, just to understand like does that work for me? Does that work well? Do I want to actually go to an office and meet with you in person or am I more com comfortable sitting in my office with at home with with my wife when I meet with my advisor? Scott: Yep, for sure. Chris: yeah, though after that Maybe I'd get into credentials, but more so Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: I would I would ask the question of like who do you typically work with? Who Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Am I Scott: Mm-hmm. Who did you who do you do your best work for? Right? Who do you love who do you love working with and like what kind of problems and challenges do you do you typically help a lot of your clients solve? That's like that's Chris: am I the type of client that you're gonna love working with or am I like you're bringing me on because you want Scott: Just for the sake of bringing you on. Chris: you want the added revenue in your business? Thank Scott: Yeah, for sure. Yep. Chris: you. If I'm if I'm the type of client you love to work with, that's gonna make for a better relationship for for me, the the the individual looking for the advisor. Scott: Only thing I'd add, potentially in terms of hiring an advisor, this is not a this is not a not a question that's like a a make or break in my opinion. But I think and again, maybe I'm coming at from a from a biased lens here, but having a clearly defined niche or ideal type of client that you work with, like someone that you like an advisor, it's like I primarily work with this type of client that has this type of problem. Obviously, we're very clear here in to say we primarily work with chiropractors that are incorporated that are at this stage in their career and we solve XYZ problem. Like we've made that fairly clear. There's a lot of generalists out there, and a lot of great generalists out there that do great work for all sorts of different business owners, T4 households. They do it all for everyone. And I'm not trying to tear them down. They do, there's a lot of the great ones out there. But there's also a lot of power behind someone who's like, I work with teachers, I understand their pensions, their benefits clearly. I help them get them set up for retirement. Or I work with pre-retirees that are in the ages of like 45 to 55 who've accumulated X amount of wealth that are self-employed and I solve their unique problems and help them get set up for retirement. That's a clearly defined niche where you've seen the common problems and challenges time and time again. And you just get better and better being like, yep, I've seen this variation of this problem before. Chris: Yeah. I think the reason that we both gravitate towards that obviously our bias with the way we've set up our our business, but I think it it it c checks the box of competency in a way without having to verify Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: credentials. It's like, okay, if I know you have solved my friend's problem and my friend has the same prop same problem as I do, I believe that I have confidence that you're gonna be able to solve that for me as well. So whatever your you know, your stage is or or situation is in life, like as as financial planners, if we were looking to hire a financial planner for ourselves, I would be looking to hire one that that works with other advisors, that specializes Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: in in our business. Right? Scott: Yep, for sure. Mm-hmm. Anything else that we need to hit on today, Chris? Any closing thoughts here? Like what's the takeaway today? Chris: Yeah, really it's it's about being able to answer those two questions. How much am I getting how much am I paying for my financial advisor and what am I getting for it? Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: if you don't know those questions, you should go ask them and a great advisor will be will welcome those questions and be able to clearly articulate them in a very, you know, direct manner. Scott: Sure. Yep. Well said. Like I I think it's understated in terms of just being open and honest about here's what you're paying, here's what you're getting, and let's make sure that you see value in that in that service. If not, that's okay. that's there's nothing wrong with that. But Too often not, we we too we see too many advisors that that don't want they don't want to make it very clear or very transparent of what their client is paying. And ultimately that leads to oftentimes subpar in terms of advisory and and planning and recommendations or or kind of a overall good like experience on a year to year basis. Chris: Cool. Well let's leave it there, Scott. Scott: Sounds good. Thanks for the time today, Chris. We'll see you all next week. Thanks for the time.