Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Summer Break: Taylor Swift

Transcript

Summer Break: Taylor Swift · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey Tolerators, it is officially our summer break for twenty
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: twenty five, and I just wanted to let you know
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: that the episode you're about to hear is either Patreon
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: exclusive content I'm making public an episode I thought it
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: would be fun to revisit from past years, or a
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: still comfy movie review with Julia Washington. I hope you
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: have a great summer with lots of great memories. I
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: hope you keep smiling instead of tolerating, and I will
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: see you in the fall with all new episodes of
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: To All the Men I've Tolerated before. Hey Tolerators, listens
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to Alderman I've Tolerated before with namby Katona, your weekly
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: look at everyday misogyny. Today, my guess is the lovely
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I think this is your season three debut.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's exciting.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: It's Elizabeth Kyle, who you will recognize from our nineties
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: protagonist episode in religious Trauma episode and just me seeing
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: her yes in Tennessee and just overall loving her.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: It's Elizabeth Kyle. Guys, it's so mutual.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be here tonight talking about really
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: like one of my top three favorite subjects. In the
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: whole world.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: So Taylor the Taylor Swift, the Taylor Swift. Taylor, did
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you name her fully Taylor Allison Swift.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: That's funny. Her name is actually Taylor Barbey Swift. Oh,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: that's right. So I do this often with my animals.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I like to name them after women I love and respect.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I've had Dolly the Doggie and to Be the Hamster,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: and I have Taylor Barbie Swift, two of my favorite
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: ladies having moments right now.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I love it because it's ta and TV. I love
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: that like literal succession.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: But Taylor Swift, she is the moment. She is the movement.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: And I got illed at for saying that out loud
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: one day from one of her haters.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Oh my, and they're out there, you guys. He's wrong
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: with this one.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: In fact, that's my first question because I think so
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: when I'm at the aerostour, I'm going to be telling
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: this episode two strangers, so I'm assuming that there are
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of tolerators out there. So in case you
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: didn't clock it, because I looked so good in Chicago,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I'm in my thirties. Taylor Allison Swift is exactly two
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: years younger than me, so we were babies when debut
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: came out.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I am older than you both, but that's okay.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: We don't know that, not by a ton, but I
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I am, I think just enough older than her, but
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: also so strived for just exactly the lane she lives
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: in with her creative accomplishments and success and business like.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: That was literally my dream was to like go to
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Nashville and be really any singer songwriter, very coyote, ugly vibes,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: but specifically like a cool kind of like country songwriter.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know she she really gave life to this
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: dream of mine. I didn't even know if she was
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: out living in the world until I'm liked having work
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: one day and hear I think the first one I
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: ever heard of hers was our song which look it's
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: like We're going way back and Wayback Machine. But immediately
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I was like, who who is I don't even know
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: if I love it.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: I'm listening to this and like it's giving.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: It's so different, and it's so blindingly beautifully sort of
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: naive and earnest that like, but it feels real. So
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: coming from the South and listening to country music and
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: many iterations from my own radio to you know, you're
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: just out shopping at Walmart wherever, Like it's it's ever present,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and it is so I feel not genuine so many
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: times more than not that you're feeling the like argu
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: from the country, and I think, mister Peter Been you're
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: from that's fine, Look, it's fine Canadians, Australians, you can
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: all be cowboys. But there was something so genuine in
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: her voice, in the like in everything that it really
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: I was taken aback immediately as something of a musician myself,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: like I really respected what I was hearing from, you know,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: day one. Upon further investigation, Tim McGraw, like everything off
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: that debut album, I seriously was like, Okay, this crol
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: she don't pull a punch, Like she's droppen names of
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: those that she knows and those that she does not.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: She is like, what a fucking baller move. After I
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: heard Tim McGraw, I was like, we will never not
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: have her name in lights L How do is so genius?
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: So Tim McGraw or teardrops on my guitar were the
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: first ones I had memorized, and because they're off the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: same album, I think they're the first two music videos
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: and the first two singles, which whoever came first? Whoever
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: came first is the first one I had memorized, right,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: And I will say, as I get further from the
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: music and I'm just getting to know Taylor, She's kept
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: that honesty and that.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Earnest, I will get into it.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She she is still the girl who will just
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: tell an interviewer like, I don't know, that's weird.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: So from the top, let me just go ahead. And
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I don't feel it's as much discourse as there is
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: around our national treasure, Taylor Swift, especially at this moment,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: like there's Alie, there's too much to talk about, Like
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have to go late, We're gonna have to
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: like have an extended like chat about just all the things.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: But we're here to focus and talk about one thing
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: and one thing only, And I think our conversation truly
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: is going to ultimately be about and us talking around
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: how I think a lot of the Tailor hate is
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: some internalized misogyny, and I think it all comes from
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: a really specific place. I think there are a handful
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: of people that really were sort of the resistance to
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: her becoming the superstar that she is today. And I
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: think all of those things are in a lot of ways,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: specifically because she is not just a female identified human
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: on this earth. She is the girliest, capital g motherfucking
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: pop star we've like you've ever seen. She is white
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: cakes and cupcakes and princess dresses. She is snakes when
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: she's angry, and glitterin sequins and fog machines and rain
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: and mid that, and do I like, I get it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: I understand that it will not be for everyone. But
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: what I can't stand for is the vocal opposition to
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: just the joy that she brings others. And I think
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: that is something that wouldn't be happening to a Justin
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: bieber or to a Justin Timberlake. If we want to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: go back to our day, I think all success and
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: reward that comes to them was because they worked hard
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: and because they deserved it. And I just, I mean,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: we wouldn't be here talking about it if you didn't
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: feel sort of similar that, Like, I don't think that
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: the same grace has been granted to Taylor Swift.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: So I think I told you that my one bit
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: of research was to actually sit down and watch the
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Miss Americana documentary because I knew that the Miss Americana
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: documentary is where she actually real Yeah.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: First viewing, Yeah did you cry?
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. And I watched it on April twenty
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: or is it April twenty nine?
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I just don't the whole thing had.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Was April. I think it's I don't know, but anyways,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: it was a Saturday, and I'm watching it, and I
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: wanted to watch it because I know it's the first
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: time that she just said enough is enough. You will
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: not tell me anymore what I will and will not
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: publicly believe. And she's doing it in a full out
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: sob She is sobbing at grown white men with her
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: mother sitting on a how to slip her just going
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: for years, for decades, you made me.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: I can't, I will forget. I'm so idd Please forgive
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: me for just stomping all over any point you're trying
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: to make, because they're all wonderful and I'm so here
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: for this conversation. If I don't see this now, I
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: will not circle back around to it, and that would
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: be I would be upset with myself. You mentioned her mom,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: and so right here I just want to lay down
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: as a mother. We're not just talking about the success
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: and talent and creativity and competence of one woman in
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, she was so directly informed by the people
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: who raised her. To see her and her mom face
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of this head on sort of them against
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: the world feels correct in both who they are and
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: what they're representing and what they're up against. And also
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I think not enough is ever said about her mom
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and her relationship. I mean, you do find interviews where
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: she's and especially since her mom, you know, got sick
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: not long ago, there has been some focus on it.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: It is just so beautiful. I think how silent a
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: partner she is for her daughter, who is a shooting
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: star that cannot be contained. We are not seeing any
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Dina Lohan. We are not seeing any like there's not
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: a part of her that is thirsty for one inch
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: of the attention. And that gives me more faith in
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: what I feel I know to be true about her
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: as a person, Taylor Swift, because that all matters so much,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Like that is that is so much what informed who
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: she is now as an adult.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I feel yeah, And you know, when people throw Taylor
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: swift hate at me and I and I think it's
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: because of my commitment issues, not because of my fan level.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I would have never have said I'm a swifty I
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: listen to her music. CDs drop, I listen to them.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Do that. Okay, before let's right off the top. Tell
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: me you're like I'm I'm hosting your show. Tell me
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: you're like you were today. What is your level of swiftness?
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I'm all the way in, all in, Okay, I would
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: jump in front of a car for was.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: The And I'm this is not gagging me at all.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: This is for listeners at home to just align themselves
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: in the environment and conversation we're having here. Are you
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: someone that you feel that is something you came to
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: recently or folklore? Gotcha? Okay?
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: And she went into the wood.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: During the goddamn pandemic. She went into those woods and
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: she came back out and she's like, I wrote these
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: two albums. Do you want to hear them?
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And now I'm a fairy, I'm your queen bow down? Yeah,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: And I totally get it. Yeah, she lived my dream.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: She went into the woods and she found her in
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: her power. It's what I want for all women. Well
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: she's a witch, clearly right.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it was folklore. It was folklore.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Now how I will say, oh, this is interesting. How
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: vocal do you feel yea and irl are you about
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: your fandom? And how much like shit do you actually
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: get for it? Because I don't think people understand how much. Yes,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: so I'm pretty vocal. Luckily, a lot of people are
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: on the same page with me. My favorite cousins, my
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: favorite wife of my cousins.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: When I told her I finally got tickets to Eras,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: she immediately said, not my thing. Super happy for you
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: because I knew how much you wanted them, And that
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: is the level I need everyone to be at.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Also, can I even interject with that and say, what
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: is it about certain people certain things that make another
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: person feel compelled to first tell you where they stand
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: on the enjoyment of this person, thing, or placed, and
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: then allow your enjoyment.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: There is something about her that wildly divisive. It is
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: and if you have an opinion about Taylor Swift, I
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: feel like, no matter who you are or what it is,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: it is a hot paine.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: People do not feel neutral about her.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: So the reason why I brought up Americana is because
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and then there are people in my family who give
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: me a lot of hell because in twenty fifteen or
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, or whenever debut came out, I don't know,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: date's time is a construct. They were team this girl sucks,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: this girl writes songs about nothing, and this girl cannot
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and will not sing. So people latched onto that and
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: like literally made it part of their dating profiles, into
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the dahood, Like you made one opinion when you were
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: twelve years old, and then you were like, and this
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: is what my hinge profile will be built upon, not
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: be so. The reason why I bring up Miss Americana
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: is because during the litany of there's this montage of
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: other women tearing her down in the press and people
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: being like, I'm just so sick of her. I'm sick
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: of her rich friends, I'm sick of her attitude, I'm
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: sick of her hearing about all of these boys or
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: whatever one of them and should we ever become friends?
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: And you're listening, this is not a dick, it's a point,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: and it's something that I clocked. One of them is
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Nicki Glacier, the comedian, and I have watched Nicki Glacier
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: get live on Instagram and sob to folklore wow and
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: dissect every song. I've watched Nicki Glacier literally meet a
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: stranger I think in Atlanta to go to the eras well.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: So here, this is one thing I think speaks volumes
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: about what she brings to society and the community she inhabits.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: There is something about her that is this equalizing, galvanizing
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: force for impacts or I don't know, like if if
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: you have blood pumping, I'm not saying that you're you're wrong.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: If you don't like her, I'm not at all. There's
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: taste is a very subjective personal thing. I completely I
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: will only watch like gruesome horror movies.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: I get that.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I totally understand that like things are not for everyone.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift again, it's such a whatever your take. It
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: is a hot take because people do not feel neutral
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: about her and that it was so uncool to like
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: her in the beginning, like you're bullied. I wouldn't talk
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: about it. It was in my car by myself, like okay,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: So but here's like the deep dive on it. I
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: and I feel it's a thing that like Taylor and
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I would have to like sit down and talk about
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: were we to were we to become friends at any point.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I'd love to be your hair dress by Taylor. I'm
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: not that far from you. Just let me know. But
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I obviously wouldn't be just handing my playlists over to
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: somebody that I'd like.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: That was a very protected thing it was.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: It was private on I guess it was Spotify like
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: whatever it was like where you could like what you're
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: listening to. I wouldn't primarily because of Taylor Swift like,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: because pretty frequently that's what's on for me.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I felt too old to be enjoying her music.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I felt like it was too simple and direct and
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I get just that like sort of like sparkling night
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: e quality, which is where I was in life too.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I was a guitar like, I was waiting tables at
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: the time and still very much dreaming of realizing some
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: type of like musical career. I my husband worked overnights,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: so I was alone a lot, like. I set up
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: a little home studio. I made a seven song EP
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: demo like I freaking sent it to Big Machine Records.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I even got like a response where I mean whatever,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Like there was a moment that I was like our
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: paths Micross, like this is a person that she presents
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: herself so in such a human relatable way that like
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I there doesn't feel like that royal disconnection. I feel
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: that she lives near me and like would be somebody
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: open to collaborating on many different things. Now I understand
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: that like that is all by design, and she gives
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: fans a very like the front receipt to the things
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: that she chooses. We'll get to that later in the conversation,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: because I think that also is she is a mastermind.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: It is all brilliant and it is all done to
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: great effect. Yeah, but for somebody who was trying to
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: break out in music in an area where music is
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: a thing people do and memphos to secretly be learning
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: every single Taylor Swift song on my guitar and then
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: like I'm sure I could dig them up somewhere like
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: have like these like deconstructed covers and like like I
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: just like I saw her, like I was like right there,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: like this music guts me. It really, Like I don't
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: care if it sounds like a four year old wrote it.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like that's exactly what you need. I
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: have a four year old, and let me tell you,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: they're incisive. Is shit, Like there are times where she
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: looks straight in my eyes and tells me truth I
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: cannot handle on a Tuesday. So what's wrong with that?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: And I think what is wrong with that is a
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: lot of men who stood to make money and then
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: ended up making money off of her. We're almost embarrassed,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: like you you almost felt this like Kristen Stewart Robert
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Pattinson promoting Twilight Quality where it's like, I don't like
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: this look on you because this is about to make
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: you a lot of money. So I need you to
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: be proud of the thing that's going to get you
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: all the fans Like she is the gold golden jowl
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: in your crown.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's the fucking John Mayer.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Exactly where is John.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Where mayor where are you?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna guess wherever he is. His body is not
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a wonderland at this moment.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: He's so sick.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: That's just fine.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: It was just fine. It really is someone. Oh it was.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: We will get to the Matt Haley of it all
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: so well. But I was talking to Stephanie and and
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I said something along the lines of I don't think
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: we talk very often enough about Taylor Swift was opening
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: for John Mayer. He was very much.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: That power dynamic. Everything about that was Yeah, textbook, Yeah
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: And she's nineteen.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: It makes me I can barely listen to what a
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: kutah shulda. I literally like I reserve it for the
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: most like real moments of my day where I really
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: need to like ground myself emotionally. That shit is so potent.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Like if you are listening, I don't know why you
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: would be, but if you are listening to this because
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Natalie is awesome.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: When you love the podcast and you have not listened
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: to Taylor.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Swift, seeing would a cuta shudda on the midnights, you like,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: stop it right now, pause it go, You're welcome. Yeah,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: it's so raw and real and like what she has
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: honed a crest. We have grown with her. She has
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: started where we were like this sounds like we're year
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: old swarving this and now this is like some suck
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Like it is Paul McCartney level. Yea, like
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: the construction and talent and creativity that goes into the songs.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Each one of them.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Also, I'm pretty sure she probably wrote to mcgrel when
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: she was four she's a fucking genius.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Well, exactly right, that's my point. Like, I love how
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: hard she just went out and did the thing she
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: wanted to do. It's the age she did where like
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: it is, you may have to add it. I'm like
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: in such awesometimes of like it's not. It transcends confidence
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: in a way that I am so jealous of and
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: want so badly for my daughter growing up. It's not
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: just I can do anything if I apply myself. It's
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: it's this bigger, broader sense of knowing that not only
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: can she, but she will and it will also improve
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: others' lives. This is not just like happening in a
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: vacuum where if you dream hard you can achieve whatever.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: It's not like we're watching like Nashville the show, which
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: it's amazing, has its place, but like Lea's I love
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: her so much, but yeah, it's this real. She takes
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: up space in a way that is so heartening to
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: see as a woman in music, as a woman on earth.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Like it.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: It is un apologetic, and it is in no way trying.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: She is not trying to be likable in that like
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: nineties way of like, well, if you were just a
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: little more likable, we would enjoy her as the lead
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: in this film. That that's not the point. She just is. Yeah,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: so like that that gets nagged about her like character
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: and personality.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: It's bullshit.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I think, like it's a It's as stupid as being
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: upset someone as blonde, even if they're not natural in
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: that way. I mean, like many of us are not.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: But what a weird thing to like hang your hat on.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I was talking about the whole leg because the Matt
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Healley thing feels like such a step back that I
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: have to believe it's a lie because I'm like, so
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: we're I go, he's our new.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: He literally is stuff didn't Yeah, he's.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three's John Mayer. Like, I get it, you're
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: releasing Speak now Taylor's version, but we don't have to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: go back to John Mayor, and we don't have to
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: find a new one.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I'm getting vibes of help me out. It's been a
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: long day, you guys. Who was it that Mayor? Oh?
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Mandy Moore, she married great musician, has a Taylor Tianne.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I can't think it's a oh Ryan, I don't know
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: who manny I say something smart sounding version.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Anyways, the Matt Healley thing it for one thing, I
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: didn't know anything about my Haley in the nineteen seventy
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: five and I still don't because I don't listen to men.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: And so anyways, that story breaks that they may already
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: be dating or whatever, and I shouldn't say already, like heal,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: how you heal? I don't know how long you and
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Joe have actually been broken up. And I literally just
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: sent a spring grab of his Google images page when
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I typed in his name, and I was like, why
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: is this ugly man touching my goddess?
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: I know?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: So I have theories we can get into at any
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: point in time. It is Ryan.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Adams, Ryan Adams. I don't know that is.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: So he had like a he well, he covered nineteen
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: eighty four, Wait nine, nineteen eight ninety so I was
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: born in nineteen eighty four, and I can never it
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: happens every time, like every time I go to say it,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I say the year of my own birth, like I'm
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, the.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Year of a Lord.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So he covered that entire album because he was
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: like so into it. That's a whole its own podcast
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: because people got really excited about it and really upset
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: about it, and is it man'splaining her own album to her?
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: And I've got thoughts about all that too.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: But Mandy Moore and Ryan Adams, their partnership was very
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: to people of my age surprising because it was a
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: really like gritty, weathered soul, like you could just tell
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: he'd been through some shit, and Mandy Moore was like,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: we all are, I think sometimes sort of drawn to
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: the dark energy of it in a way that like
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: it's hard to sustain because it can be very selfish. Yeah,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I get what I think is happening is another truly
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: just I feel this is yet another diversion from the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: fact that Taylor Swift is a full blown queer person.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Let's just go there.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a very touchy subject for a lot of
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: people because queerness, and especially female queerness, makes people so
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: picky and uncomfy that they're like, why can't people just
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: be straight? In space?
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: There's but then also there's like I understand as a
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: person who is bisexual and has had relationships with both venders,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I understand it's like I see you girl, Like I
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: get it that, Like if Taylor Swift just came out
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: on stage with Carl Class and was like, Yep, we
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: pussy and we love that, Like he is literally giving
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: the keys to the kingdom to the world. Like and
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: not even in just a like oh it ruined my
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: image or reputue or whatever. No, I mean in a
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: like think about well, like we've been saying this entire time,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: there's no cold take on Taylor Swift. So imagine adding
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: something as divisive I mean, I hate to even like
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: it feels okay to even be using words like that,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: but truly divisive as homosexuality to that mix. And it's
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: not that I think she's like protecting her bank account.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I think that she has very thoughtfully been present in
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: her life and curated her world such that she can
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: still entertain us and live a life. And if those
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: two things were truly to melt in a way that
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: was not controlled by her, none of it would work.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: And like I've never understood the love for royals like
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: all that, Like I don't get it until I start
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: looking at my own relationship with Taylor Swift, and I
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: get it, Like I understand the sort of the appeal
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: of having people in your life that are idealized sort
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: of versions of the people you see yourself to be.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: That gets messy when you start sort of I think,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: holding them to different actual standards. But it happens, and
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: like so for her then to live within the parameters
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: of what is socially acceptable, I would not be surprised
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: at all if Taylor Swift is like Oprah level, like
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: has a like a lover that like has just been
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: looking at her like.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think I think when you bring in
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: that story narrative, like that narrative to her life, people
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: immediately go, well, she'd tell us, well, no, she wanted
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: number one. If you're in the public light like that
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: and you are melding your talent with your true life
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and you're melding it, we've seen people die from that.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, That's what killed Heath Ledger. Yeah, that's
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: what killed Kirk Coving, That's what the Elvis. We have
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: seen people die from this, just like literally making themselves
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: the commodity.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Well, and I think that that is why myself and
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: others feel so as much as there is a sort
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: of like apathy or tag or fatigue or just straight
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: up hate in the world and you've experienced it because
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: people are very excited to tell you about it. If
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: you are somebody who says has a.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Tailor tattoo, maybe are you?
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: So it comes out after the aress.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I I love it. I love it.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so the pause. I got my Taylor Swift
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: tattoo the night I wish I was supposed to be
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: at the Nashville show, so we were together in some
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: way and it was still on her. But like there's
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: there's a reason, Like we're mid tattoo with my UH relative,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Like I my tattoo artist here in town is awesome
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: trilogy tattoos. If you're in Memphis, ask for Cyprus. They're
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: so great at tattooing and just a great human. So
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: halfway through the tattoo, UH co worker comes in like
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: another tattoo artist, and she totally like it's like I
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: could tell another female tattoo artist came in the room
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: to ask my tattoo artist a question and then to
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: be like felt so that she was in such a
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: safe space and this is not at all or not
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: like when you're in people service industry, like you were
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: just trying to make it through the day and there's
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: a small talk it can it's there is no way,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not like you put your footing in other and
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going already yeller meal about it, like I'm not
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: as It's fine, I understand. I'm only using this story
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: to illustra at the point that Taylor hate is such
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: a pervasive thing that people in the South will assume
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: you're Christian. People will just assume if you're in certain
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: places I think in the world, you're cool. You don't
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: like that shit, like that's stupid and fake, and we
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: don't Taylor here. So I'm getting my Taylor Swift tattoo
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and like getting all in my feelings about my Taylor
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Swift love and truly just what she has meant in
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: my life, like honestly, and this this girl comes in
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: and ask her quote makes a joke about I remember
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: it was something about like aren't you.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Guys, Oh my god.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: My friend works at a shop in Nashville and I
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: literally had to like put a song outside that was
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: like no tailor talk please, Like okay.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: So it's a huge money maker for you to be
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: a tattoo parlor in Nashville and have so many people.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: You should be doing a flash sale.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: You should literally have disco balls and her cats at
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: like I want a flash sheet of I would have
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: driven to Nashville to get that. So you're more on
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: that's a bad business. You're just sleeping money on the table.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: But also what if tail footballs a gottoo one day?
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Stop shooting yourself right in your own foot please. Anyway,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: my point is that didn't land. I wasn't an asshole
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: or like, I'm also getting tattoo, So I wasn't really
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: like in the most like casual chatting group, you know whatever,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Like I was busy, but I could tell she felt
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: a little like, oh okay, and like because everybody wasn't
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: just like laugh whatever. I'm sure Cyprus felt strange because
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: she knew it was a Taylor Swift tattoo. But that,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's just so perfectly encapsulates the dichotomy I
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: think in our culture of the love hate and where
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: do you fall? And it's almost like a war check,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Like it's like a ken Zi's scale at this point
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: of like cool or legitness or some type. I once
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: told a friend of mine, so I've got a lot
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: of friends in the music industry, some amazingly talented. Some
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: it is hobby. They're great at it, but it's not
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: like a thing that's like the focused moneymaker and everyone
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: in between. Many of these people, for very many years
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: have just known me to be both a horror fan
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: and an unapologetic Taylor Swift fan. Now we have a name,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: it's Swifty. I I love it here for it did
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: not always have that identify me. So one night I
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: showed up to something. It was, oh, even she did.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: It was one of the nights where nobody knew a
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: thing was happening, and then she was like, oh, the
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: thing's happening, and it was like a single or a
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: something big in tailor Nation had happened that day. So
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I go to this psych gathering after work with a
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: few people outside of work that we're all mutual friends with,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: one of whom is a guy in the music industry
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: here who like runs over to me and is like,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I thought about you today when the tailor whatever dropped
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: and uh, oh.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: I know I know what it was.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I know what it was. I do remember, Okay, it
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: was you need to calm down. Video had just so
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: I was having a great fucking day, like I was
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: like on a fucking catwalk runway all day, like just
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: love it, like like don't bring me your negative energy
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: to me about any of the things that people want
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: to say about that video or that song. And so
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: that night it was a lot of that, Like it
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: was just people like, well, you.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Know, how do you ask for silence until now on
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: what you be taking it? How do you what do
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: you think about our involvement wag or lack of enthusiasm
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: about Hey, first of all, when someone comes in and
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: it's like wearing a Jimmy Hendricks t shirt, no one
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: puts them in a corner and it's like he said
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: this thing, and then don't see why I need you
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: to defend, Like what is it about now I'm asking
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: you this? What is it about being a Tailor Swift
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: fan that makes you an ambassador for truth in Taylor?
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Like it's like there's something that it's like, Oh, you're
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: the one in the room, come here, we have questions
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: what about this? And I'm like, well, the way you're
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: framing that question is incredibly minogn Like it's not even
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: like it's not my job or her job to address that.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not taking ownership for what she said
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: or what she did not say, But other people.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Aren't asked to do that for Star Wars.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Right, is she making childborn? We literally know that people
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: make Yeah.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm just there are problems in the world.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: People like I I.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, may I still rewatch Glee? Yeah, but oh I'm sorry.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Is Ezra Miller not still the mother fucking flash right?
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Right? Look, I'm just saying, like the selective nature of
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: cancel culture that will continue to be a thing that
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: we grapple with when we're talking about somebody who is
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: truly talented, has applied herself and becomes successful in her field,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: that then by being known as a fan, I am
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: approached by multiple people at a party where I'm just
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just got off work too, I'm just nearly have
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: a drink and chill. Nope. Now we're in a freaking
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: like Mayle Mayu can't press conference. Like it's like a
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: thing where it's like, okay.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Well what about this?
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: But what about this?
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Because people had such opinions about her even saying the
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: word gay, So that also proves my point that you
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Like right, Fannie said, it the best during the safety episode,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: there's no money. You could tell me that my tits
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: are out and I deserve to be raped, But you
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: could also tell me that I could be in a
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: head to toe garb and I'm a sucker, imprude, and
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I still deserved it because if I wasn't apprude, I
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: would have just given it up.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Right. There is no way to be that is, you
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: just have to be yourself. You have to be your
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: authentic self. And it is strange to me that when
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: your authentic self is a hardcore Taylor Swift fan, that
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: sort of implicates you in these like other conversations or
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: opinions in a way that like I'm like, well, not
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: all that, Like I don't know what you're even talking about.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I like good things that bring me joy. I also
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: love petting my cat, which I mean, we won't get
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: into the depths of my insanity. I have the same
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: kind of cat tailor Swift does. That's what her name is, Tommy. Think.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: The thing that I've started to use to combat that
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: is when it's safe for her to do it, she'll
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: do it. Because you can't argue with it's not always safe.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: It's not always safe for me a nobody to voice
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: my opinions on trump men, misogyny, the trans band, drag
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: shows being banned, lift and right. I'm not always safe
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: to be doing that. So how are you gonna ask
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: her to where? People know her address, people know where
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: she's going to be and why she's going to be there,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: people know her.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Entire terrifying, I mean, just in today's world, it's terrifying
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: how visible her whereabouts are. Yeah, Like I don't engage
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: with social media for that very reason, and to be
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: a business owner like somebody working for myself now. And
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I don't mean to sound alarmist or like some crazy
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theorists, but like I I'm friends with too many
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: people on Facebook, Like I don't like putting addresses, or
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: there's a fine line between like networking and just showing
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: all your shit and making yourself so accessible that like
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: any anybody for any reason that just wants to know
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: where you are, do a thing could.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also have started to go. If you
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: were listening to what the girl was saying, instead of
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: just deciding that she was a blonde bimbo who can't sing,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: you'd realize that that is in fact her movement calmed down.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: So when calm down the music video came out, I
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: was told, it's just performative. Allyships she knew that her
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: hand was held to the fire.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: That's what I was told as well as at this party.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Like great, so we're not happy that she didn't do it,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: but now we're not happy.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: But also I'm a queer person saying I embraced this
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: and totally co sign all of it, and it makes
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: me happy. The person talking to me, incidentally, was not
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: where and happened to be a white man. Let's just
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: call a spade a white man. Yeah, And like I
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: felt both the power dynamic and the conversation I was
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: having with this person, where as Beta male, I'll the
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: honest as as personalized in my life, like this is
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: we're talking a feminist, ally liberal voting tattoo. Where Like he,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I don't think he would like to be framed in
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: any conversation as somebody who was gate keeping or alienating
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: or you know, like pissing on anyone's fandom. But in
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: what I said, and this is what I say to
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: this day, because I know where his affections and loyalties lie,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: and it's not at all something I'm interested in, but like,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: you know, him being like we'll built and trying to
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: bring out all the like I don't even know, like
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: the socio political underpinnings of a move like the I
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: basically like interrupted him at some point and was like, Okay,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: here's the thing from now on, moving forward, just consider
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift my Star Wars. We don't need to go there.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I don't need to like it. You Like, is there
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: a day that this man will not be in line
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: for opening night of some bullshit Star Wars prequel recouel whatever. No,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: he will be there and with bells on in a
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: jar jar Binks post. That's exactly right. So I've heard
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: enough conversations where he is, you know, getting in the
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: mud about like like effects on these films and whether
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: they deserve to be and whatever. It's not if it's
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: it's it's not. Everyone has a thing. Everyone has the
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: thing that if you start talking about it or picking it,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: that they're going to be like get on their soapbox
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: and get offensive. For I just like very popular musical
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: artists like this isn't a thing that I feel. She'd
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: come with a whole lot of unpacking, but since you're
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: making me do it, Sit down and listen. She's a
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: fucking lady who does her job really well. I'm sorry
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: if that makes you insecure. Every man who's ever hired her,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: worked with her.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Helped her.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: You also don't deserve to get a cut of it
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: because she said your name.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: So I actually have I have specific things that I
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: want to talk about that I think are a direct
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: reflection that are a direct reflection of misogyny playing a
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: role in her career and how we as fans or
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: not fans, react to it. Why is that girl just
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: writing songs about her exes? Does she not have hobbies? Well,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: she wrote a fucking song about moving to New York
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and you said you hate it all of them.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Also, my podcast is in the cultural societal feminist realm
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: because all of my exes abused me, maybe not out
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: of malice, but sure as hell out of misogyny. And
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: if we and one of the biggest tools, one of
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the biggest tools the patriarchy has done is silenced women
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: about what is actually going on in their homes, in
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: their beds, and in their offices.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: So fuck you, Jake Dyllanhall. Do you fuck Jake Jillenhall
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: so hard?
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Can I another groomer, another groomer? I don't care that
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: she was older.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: So I'm listening to Armchair Expert, but like it's in
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: my fees, so sometimes it's just like next whatever. And
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: so then I noticed the little circle initials were JG
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: and I was like, when is this subject John I've
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: been seeing on Yes, it was.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: I came out like two days before I started listening
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: to it.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Girl. Within an hour of them starting to talk, he
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: has like, I don't know if anyone else caught this.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: I haven't heard it on any other like like pop
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: culture Gossip podcast or anything. But I had to like
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: pull over and text people and be like, what did
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: you have you heard this? So j joln Hall on
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: his Armchair Expert conversation and he's talking about his love
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: of expensive furniture and his favorite furniture company in New York.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: And it's like so expensive Eunice, and.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: So like I'm not kidding. I pulled over into a
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: y NCA parking lot and googled the company that he
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I had to rewind it three times. He said it
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: really quick, and it's just like so cool. It's just whatever,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: it's just this place in New York. It's like, hey guys,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: it's basically restoration hardware, but it's a dude being like,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: but it's expensive.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Like this is like, hey, he's not interesting. None of
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: the men that she's dated are interesting.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Again, like this is this is fueled by my own anger,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: not like how cool and Taylor are you? That is
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: to me. So Chef's kiss amazing and just rounds out
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: the entire narrative of him that she has told us
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: from day one to be true. Because that man has
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: like a million dollar pouch. We know this from the song.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: He sure does, and I Betty got it at fake
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: restoration Heart like this place in New York. Like I'm
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: looking at their pouches and it's like one five million dollars.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: The way that I shriek I don't want to keep
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: secrets just to keep you. I mean, the way that
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: my entire body language changes when I'm singing Wildest Dream.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that song is so complicated to me. Yeah,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: like it's oh man, it's real.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Like it's literally like I'm a nineteen twenties black and
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: white movie actress.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: Just be like what.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I want to try and figure out how to do
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: the it will in a friendship bracelet, so I could
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: hand it to people like I also like with the
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: oh no.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: You've seen that TikTok that it's like the cat walking
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: on the piano. It's so funny, but.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: You can't. So art is an expression of what we've
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: lived through and what we've endured. And she has endured
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: and police is that? All right? And who police is that?
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: And she has endured some really mediocre kind of boring dudes.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I want city, Yeah, anyone enchanted, anyone Joe.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: So just some guy named Joe. She just she just
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: she's had to endure and tolerate, just like me and that,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: and I think that's why I'm so in for her now,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: because I'm like, she's just like me. She is just
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: like yeah, I mean real, She's had to tolerate so
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: many boring men telling her that she's not great, and
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: in fact, she's not only not great, she's not she's
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: too much to date.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Here's what.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Let me just boil it down. So she says things
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: that we all want to say. And it's not like
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Shakespeare like, it's not she's like wrapping it up in
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: some English literature language that's very white unless we're talking
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: in polkort every more like she gets her quoll pen
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: off and not a little bit. But it's very blunt
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: and descriptive in a way that I think makes particularly
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: meant uncomfortable. So I think that they can handle the
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: flowery like a Phoebe Bridgers song where it's like you
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: are lost in the fucking like that's not.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: Like what do you know what I mean?
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Like when it's this ghosty, sexy, ambiguous, you.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Were in a enigma in my life and I just
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: couldn't capture you.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Even if you are like Billie Eilish and direct, like
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: you're like a bad guy or like whatever. The thing
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: is like you're getting to this point more right, right,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: But that's still in a very like evocative type of
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: like the danger could be sexy and look, I'm not
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: like all music.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: I love this all. I love all these.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Female artists music, all of them for sure, like absolutely,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: And what I'm saying is like it, how will you
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: express yourself? How that language comes out of you organically?
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Whose job is it to police that? And why is
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: it that Taylor Swift people, all the people who have
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: ever ended up in a song or a reference to
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: a liner note. Both they get to have this reaction
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: that is intense, and then society at large gets to
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: comment ad nauseum on her as a person and her
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: as a lover, and her as a woman, and her
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: as a friend because of what she shared with us,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Because what I'm arguing is she's not sharing more or
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: less than anyone else. This is her voice that everyone
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: is trying to modify or silence because it's just so direct.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think that plays into the criticism of
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: she just doesn't fucking ever let up. And it's like, well,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: it's because she hears all of your criticism and she goes,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: I'll raise you a blank space, and no one is
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: prepared for how uncomfortable I'm about to make a room
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: full of people at karaoke when I say boys only
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: want love when it's torture. Because I've fucking lived that,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I will.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, there's this great moment. Great Okay, just being
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: real with audience here. I've been married twice, neither took.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: During the second marriage, blank space came out with both
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: husbands and they were very well aware that I was
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: a Taylor's lift for life right or di like it's
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: part of my whole personality, but like it really is.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: It's not like a jacket I put on, Like I
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: just fucking lover, Like I just love this goal. So
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: that comes with knowing me, and the blank space starts
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: making you know, the videos out whatever. All my friends know,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: like if it's a tailor day, if something's happening, it's
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: more than my birthday. I get texts like have you seen?
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Are you good? Did you like it?
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: What's that? Just checking on me to see how things are.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: And with blank space, I was so like this phoenix
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: rising from the fire. Conversion of her started happening where
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh fuck yes, not only because you're
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: about to burn some of the like owe headedest nim
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: wits in celebrity them, I'm so here for it, but
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: also because I want someone who not in and again anyone,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: I'm anyone, both either of us are referencing you're probably
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: my hero. If I'm talking about you like I mean
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: this and no unless you wait, that is no. If
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: you're a woman, where are you right now?
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: I have masturbated to your body as a wonderland. But
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: I stop, but I stop, No, I.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Have just the song that's so funny you say that,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Like I totally did that too.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: That makes song no, not the video, not the.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Video, but it still plays in my head when I
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: hear it.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Well this cystraia, but yeah, it's like I want popcorn
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: in a front receipt because she's just been sort of
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: finessing and tightening these muscles that she now was going
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: to flex in a way. But like, I don't think
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: anyone is ready for And so my husband, I'm cool,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: you've met me here before, you know. It takes a
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: minute to get around to the point we're driving in
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: the car and my husband and second husband at the time,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: who knows, like everyone knows, Like you're not like shitting
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: on tailor around me, like we're like jamming out to
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: playing space, and that line, ooh only want it is
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: still true, So that comes out. It's like I think
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: it was the first lesson for him at the time,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and he's like, ooh is she saying and hang tight?
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: She'll say it again and she does and he's like
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: it's not true, and then like this is this is
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I have to just do an improvery enact amount of
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: what actually happened, and just sitting in this f one
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: fifty at a parking like lot whatever.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: We're like waiting to go into the store, and he's like, yeah,
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: that's not true. And then by the second time she's.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know saying it. He No, that's exactly true.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: That is true. And I watched a white man in
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: the seat of his Ford f one fifty about to
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: go into freakin' home depot target wherever we're we're going
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: maybe whatever white people think we were doing, that's right,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: like get it for am it? Like truly have a thing?
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Seeing then that, he was like knee jerk, not me what, No,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Like that's stupid. And then Taylor Swift lovingly saying it
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: gave it to us again, and he's like, yeah, actually,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: that's the thing. I don't think I realized or knew
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: about myself that that is true. And I feel it's
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: true for most.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Men well, and they've been conditioned to want to hunt.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: But to see someone recognize that because Taylor Swift saying
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: a thing, girl like I don't go to church, but
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: that that is my church.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: The sex I would have with you if you looked
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: at me and said, damn that blank space makes sense.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: They do make women keep rosters and then hate them
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: for keeping a roster.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Damn, you have to be the madonna. You have to
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: be the whore like she puts words to that so perfectly,
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: and she.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Goes, Oh, you're gonna care about my relationships, I'll make
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: you fucking care about my relationships. And she's made millions,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: if not well, she has in fact made billions off
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: of it. And I tell people when I tell people
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: that blank Space is my soul song as well as
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Kesha's him.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Oh girl, yes, I was just listening to the album
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: the other day too.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: I when I tell people, I go, Taylor Swift doesn't
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: know it, but I know it that when she wrote
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: blank Space, she wrote it for the woman she knew
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I'd become. Because that song should be the theme song
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: to tell all the men. I tell her.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Before you saying exactly what you just said. That little
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: just that sound right, That is why Taylor rings. She
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: is queen of all things that are joyful, good and
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: true in the entertainment industry, and that what you just
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: said is so perfectly illustrated that.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: And the best part is is that the people who
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: don't get it are like, what a funny song? They
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: think she's fucking joking.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: Absolutely one hundred persons.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: And that's why she wins.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: She uses every single tool in her arsenal so magnificently
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: and does it in a way that it's able to
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: keep her working and respect it as a let's just
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: and she knows it, and I know it, and I
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: wish you could see me roll my eyes as a
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: woman and as a lady and as a pump start
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: with all the things. She gets it, y'all. She fucking
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: gets it. She gets it, and she's playing by the rules,
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: but she's killing it. And that kills so many people.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Another thing that people couldn't get over when midnights dropped
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: and midnights it sounds so silly to be like, oh yeah,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I was late in life swifty and the most recent
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: album is my favorite.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: No. I was on a podcast recently where they were
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: like it was it was a deep dive on Taylor
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: and they're like, all right, favorite album, go and expected
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: this like PhD answer about No, it's fucking midnights. It's midnight, bitch,
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: get it.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Shit rocked my actual world.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Midnight is Taylor's rainbow album from Kesha. It's the one
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: it's the one where you get to know her the most,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: and it's the one where you get to.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Know yourself just like smoking a cigarette in bed with her,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: like night gowns. This is her her with you to
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: hear it on purpose and out loud.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: It's her Janus Chaplin era totally, it's her Joni Mitchell,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: It's love.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: How many people like you know, I don't engage a
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: ton with the honestly, like the community of the Internet
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: at large, But when I would go on Twitter instead
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: before Elon, when Twitter was Twitter and people were talking
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: about the things, you would see a lot of people
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: talk about Taylor Swift in this album in a way
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: that was like, well, this is a departure, Like it's
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: just so obvious when someone's talking about her that like
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: hasn't been holding her hand metaphorically speaking through this entire journey,
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Because no, this is a perfect culmination of what she
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: has been telling us and bringing us as stands for
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: the entirety of her career. And this this is the
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: like unplugged, you're in my bedroom, we're talking real where
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: like I'm so glad that all the people who are
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: like were so like that that really saw her going
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: in this way of like used to be a superstar
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: but now as a wifey like gonna like I just
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: saw lots of like, well, we're you know, Taylor Swift
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: is teasing to exit at the top of her game
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: eras is gonna be her like farewell whatever she's gonna
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: like settle down on the door, all in her babies
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: and get the fuck out, you know, are you kidding? Wait?
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: How do we live in a place where the Marvel
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: universe exists? And you also expect this woman to go
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: cook someone dinner and just have a baby.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Just be barefoot and pregnant, Just be wifey number one,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Just be barefoot and pregnant. I So when when people
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: and I will argue that between Folklore Evermore and Midnights,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: your gut reaction is huh. And then you listen to
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: it the second time and you go, oh, okay, that's
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: what we're doing. So when people only listen to the
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: it that first time and they couldn't get past sexy baby,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: and I was like, you all forgot to hear her say,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: and I'm the monster on the hill because I'm the
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: monster me, Nadley Katona, I'm the problem.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: It's me.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: I am the monster on the hill at every social
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: gathering eyebrain, because I'll look you down in your eye
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: and go, hey, that guy's gaslighting you and he's probably
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: gonna murder you one day.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Well, people like me need people like you around, because
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: like you're the rat in the woods running away from
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: the tear. That's some of us don't have the extreme
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: internal like radar that it takes to feel that out always.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: And I am very appreciative of the ambassadors of truth
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: like you and Taylor and as well that are just
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: like no, honey, no.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: And I don't know how Taylor Soft became my grief
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: mythological fate where she has such a hit just like
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: a little pinch on my timeline, where she's sitting in
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: a room writing anti hero and she's going, this one's
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: for you, Namby and the woman that you'll become, because
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: the monster on the hill and the sexy baby thing
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: resonates so much with me because while she was writing
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: that album, I was living a life where I was like,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: all I want is for people to understand why I'm
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: so angry, why these things are important. I'm so tired
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: of how tipping around, why I'm not safe I'm so
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: sick of wide eyed sexy babies. And she said it.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: She had the goal to say it.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Listen, I was confused why people were like, what does
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: it mean? I'm like, it means literally exactly that. She's like,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: how are you confused?
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: It's the women on TikTok trying to make us believe
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: that the nineteen fifties was the epitome of femininity and
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: we should go back.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it really truly, it's a cupie doll
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: of like a wifey figure that there. I don't want
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: anyone listening to this and being like, oh my god,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: this is just like the mis argument.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Urge.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: No, it's well, it's like so real.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: It's so real.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it does suck that we just have
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: to repeat ourselves all the time, but like, it also
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: sucks that it happens every day.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: And the reason why I equate it to monstrosity is
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: because it literally does tear down my life and my
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: relationships sometimes because people can't hang with the mirror. So
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: if I'm sitting there and I'm telling you your boss
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: is gaslighting you and he should pay you more, and
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: you're not ready for that, I'm your Godzilla and Kasha
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: wrote a song called Godzilla and it's all about bringing
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Godzilla home to meet your mom. So, oh my god,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: the paraglem's between cushion and tailor slip. I'm gonna DM them.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna DM them. So the sexy baby thing. When
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: people are like, that's so dumb, where did she even
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: come up with that? I was like, my brain, my heart,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: my bro inside of me, right, my broken ass heart.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: That's so tired of losing friends because they would rather
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: be a dateline episode.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: It's look, girl, it's just always going to be easier.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: It's always going to be easier to stick it out
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: in the sand, and that for the entire future of
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: human life and this planet and others where life exists,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: that will be true. But I will tell you, as
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: a Taylor Swift fan, woman and human, when I heard
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: anti hero after suffering the Lake Us of the means
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: like mighty, it's you. What's the common denominator.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: That I think? It's? Oh, it's the common denominator that
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: a girl with a vagina dare let a person put
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: a thing inside it and it didn't work, and then
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: again and again. How dare she?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: How dare she? Because sexy babies don't have sucks. They
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: just think they're just smoothed down there like barbiees.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but then.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: When they find their like Godfarian Christian chosen male half
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: partnership situation for life, then it's okay to lose the
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: baby and just be the sexy. But Taylor Swift's like
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: all of us is just outliving in this huge, monstrous body.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I mean honestly, Like it's like I feel that on
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: a let and I feel like there are some people
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: who took might take offense at that because she is
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Barbie Like, I'm not discounting the optics right of Like
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: she is beautiful by any conventional standard, she is, then
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: she is very feminine. I get it. I get it,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: I get it. But also I challenge you to not
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: find it in yourself to understand the truth of this fact.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: It literally does not matter what you look like. If
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: you have a brain in your head that's working, you
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: are always struggling with yourself, who you are, how you
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: fit in. Like that is a myth the perfect person.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: If you're upset with someone on social media, if you
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: watch a movie and it's like, I don't make her
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: she just assumed and you can't finish that sentence. I
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: promise you. It's a reflection of things you don't like
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: about you, Like I promise you.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: How did you just perfectly segue into my next part
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: points I love you. I know we're so connected, you, Me,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, and Kasha.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: It just needs to be a four pole.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Let's all move away into the woods forever. Because the
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: sexy baby thing made me laugh because I was like, oh,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: you dumb dumbs didn't get it. What you didn't get
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: her metaphor? Okay, I love when I'm the smartest woman
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: in the room. It's my kink. But I was enraged.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: I was enraged for her. I was enraged for me.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: I was enraged for what I struggle with was being
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: turned into. But when they told her take the fat
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: off the scale, your Taylor Swift, you're not allowed to
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: have body dysmorphia, I I could have lived this entire
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: country on fire.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, so and you're on your own kid. The line,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: every iteration of the line, but the one particular that
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: she like lay on so hot on where it's like, well,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: it's the evolution of the line through the song. Actually
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: the hosted parties.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I hosted parties and.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: With better bodies, dar my body, and then there's that Yeah,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: so to me, she is in a way that is
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: beautiful and honestly hot. Take I think quite subtle and
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: pretty nuanced as a writer, like putting emotions to words
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: in a way that then to music like that's so effective.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: But here here's what I let me just be real.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: You can like if this isn't work for the episode
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: edited alcohol, you know it's here's what it is, okay.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: So pretty girls aren't supposed to hurt or feel.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Things, correct, that's my point.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: So pretty skinny girls with pretty perky boobs that get
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: pretty famous boyfriends shut the fuck up right, And so
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not Taylor Swift, look me up on like you.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: I will make it very easy for you to find
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: a photo of me anyone listening. I get this.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: However, I do live in a smallish town. Like I
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: know the feeling of like.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Because of how arian I turned out, like at the
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: time of history that I was born, that that ended
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: up being fortuitous for me. Like I understand all of
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: the all of the social implications and all of the
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: things that go into why it's problematic and why any
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: luxury afforded to, just like a white blonde woman needs
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: to be questioned or a weighed like I currently, I'm
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: doing all of this in my life like as we
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: all should, but I also very much resent this, like
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: shut the fuck up, you're cute.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: Hey, Barbie, take your ken get in your convertible and go, yeah,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: you're a Barbie girl in a Barbie world. It's fantastic.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: One hundred people that I know all like, foresure, okay,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: let's set up. Here's what they do. I'm going to
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: say something really hateful about Taylor Swift that's so anti
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: feminist and stupid, and I'm going to say it on
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: a soapbox and bing the lot of evil. Then immediately
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: you come under it with I mean, look like I'm
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: not saying your songs at EDM Like wait, like she's
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: fine what she does, Like.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's not like she and I.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Every time I hear this and you've been there, I've
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: been there, like it happens all the fucking time. When
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: I hear that happening, I'm like, ooh, I wish there
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: was a white man out here doing this for men
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: all over, like I wish people all the time, but
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: to show their ass and be like, you know, Rod,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: that's fine, And I mean, I guess I don't hate
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: some of his movies, but like, I just don't understand
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: why you have to like hite your wife or no,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: we're not. No one's talking about that ship. There's literally
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: litigation happening currently about Angelina.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Jania Twain did say, okay, so you're a bread pit.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Look look like okay, so your bread pit you are
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: a beautiful Now she didn't know was there for me.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: Saying girl? Same? Yeah, it's it's if there's a pretty
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: girl paid in a way that s or she's like
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: a billionaire, Like I understand the irony, anitobus and all
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: the things we're talking about, because yet she's still a
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: white woman and she's very very fortunate, very blessed. Yes,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: a billion people could have maybe come and done the
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: same thing. Have they been given the same opportunity? Okay,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: so maybe it's like kitchen table bills. Everyone's struggles their
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: fucking struggle, and if you are litigating and trying to
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: monitor and manage what that means and how much artistic
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: merit that has get out, Like that's just not what
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: any of this is about.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: This is my point with it. Elizabeth. You just went
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: into a lovely description about how you are conventionally beautiful.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: All of your jams pitched up.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: I had nothing to do with that, Elizabeth.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Am I also after years of the stripe and the
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: struggle a hawk girl who does hot girl shit? Are
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: there numbers in between our dress sizes?
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: Likely?
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Likely? Even though we have numbers in between our dress sizes,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: do we both struggle with body dysmorphia?
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Has that sometimes meant that we experience disordered eating.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: One hundred percent?
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Oh? Pretty people with they're disordered eating fat people, skinny people.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: You can't police who gets to feel bad about them all?
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: But I like it hurts so to be a person
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: like you get to a point as an adult where
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: you're medicated enough and you've gone to enough therapy and
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: you've done all the DSM what I like. I am bipolar.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I'm also obsessive compulsive. I have extreme social anxiety and
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: major depressive disorder. So that that doesn't get me into
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: the fucking club about being able to bitch about shit sucking.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: It hurts my actual feelings, is what I'm saying.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: It hurt my feelings for her when people who should
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: be my allies because they were saying I was so
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: triggered about my disorder eating, and I was like, yeah,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: we're all on the same page. The patriarchy makes us
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: hate our bodies. We throw up, we starve, we binge.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: I've done all of it.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we try to feed the machine.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: The drugs we do like all the things we do.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: We suck boys off in the yard that don't like
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: us like we do it. That's what she's saying. And
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, it's triggering, and it's like it's supposed
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: to be triggering because she's triggered.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: And it's beautiful because it's in this like culliphane wrap
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: package that like it's all fucking on purpose. You guys,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: this is all part of the performance art that is
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, and I'm glad it makes you uncomfortable.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift is processing for us to all see. And
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: you're mad at her for being in a different place
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: with her disordered eating than you are. That's not healing
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: for anybody.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: It's not and that's not trying for the greater good.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: That is not That is absolutely building a wall around
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: yourself and trying to police, others, lives, feelings, emotions, experiences,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: wait so to me.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: So that's what can be a worship test of like
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: kind of how much do you want to control me?
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: And then you tie it all in, You tie it
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: in with the is she living in a glass closet? Well,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: if she's not allowed to be honest about her disordered eating,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: is she allowed to be honest about her connection to
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: the queer community and where she fits in it?
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: Then it's she's not allowed to be honest about who
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: she actually loves and wants to have sex with. So
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: why should she be able to tell you who she
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: wants to be president? Because when the Dixie Chicks tried
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: to tell you who they wanted to be president, you
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: blacklisted them for a fucking decade. It's not easy being
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: a country music fan. Believe me, I know.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Great Dame right, Like when Leanne.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Rhymes had a little bit of sex with a little
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: bit of a married man on a lifetime set, you
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: also blacklisted her out of my life for a decade because.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Women's a bizarre morality clause in country music that I
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: say fuck off with God.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: It's hard being a country music fan. It's hard supporting
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: pop queens and Kasha was abused for decades, and then
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: you all said it was her fault for dropping out
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: of high school. Taylor Swift has an eating disorder and
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: it's and then you say that's her fucking vanity, she's
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: too pretty for her own good. It's a pattern. It
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: keeps happening. So for you to stand there and just
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: be like, I don't understand why she gets to have
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: an eating disorder that's just for me, is preposterous for me.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: And then you call yourself a fan. You're starting to
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: piss me off, like the critical role fans doll, You're
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: starting because I'm not in a pall.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Well, but that's what then, That's what's interesting is like
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: then it puts you and I people like us that
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: are I mean, I just feel like sort of grassroots
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: evangelists for people like you.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: Like truly, I will not do it for christ I
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: will do it for you, Taylor. But it puts you
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: in the position of like having to deal with the
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: emotional backlash that people are having at like themselves because
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: of what this is all bringing up. The amount of
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: scapegoats present for someone to just feel like it is
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: too much how much you like her, and it is
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: too much what she is doing, Like just weed yourselves out,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: it's fine, And now has this happened to you?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: How about?
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: Like sometimes TSI will come up in conversation often she
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: will just as happens naturally, not because I'm not because
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: I'm wearing a teacher or playing acoustic guitar like a
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: bus girl.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: You fucking look like her. So they were like that lady,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: like that does.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Happen sometimes, and I'm not gonna lie. I did cut
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: my bangs again after she went into her because like
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: I kind of like going into gas stations and people
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: be like you, I guess thats.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: Who would at but also legit, let's just for.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: The integrity of this show, not let anyone think that
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: anything other than real life is happening over here or
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: to me, like pretty girls often were molested by their
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: cousins when they were five and fired for not returning
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: sexual favors in the restaurant industry, or like, things happen
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: that don't have anything to do with who you are
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: as a person or who you're presenting to the world.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: And even if you were presenting something to the world
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: that by society's definition asked for it. I should all
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: just be disgusted that that's the response, and that I
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: try to share and be vulnerable with people in my
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: life who had different paths and lived experiences, but it
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: has come out to the same raw emotion. Do you
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like to me, I see like
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: meets like like I will see someone in shreds over
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: a thing that has happened in their life that has
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: truly approuted who they knew they were as a person, right,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: and you're there, you listen, like at some point to
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: offer advice. I know it's never like the first thing,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: but like when you go to reaching your own truest
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: of experience and you offer something that's like, you know,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: at this point in my life when I did struggle
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: with this, I took comfort in knowing that X y
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: Z to feel the resistance that someone then puts out
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: because you are a size eight and not as do
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like it truly like it
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: hurts in a way that I don't know people understand
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: and I hear it. Look, no, everyone hates the fucking
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: like oh pretty girling and crying and it's like.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: Just too too pretty. It's like too great.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: You guys all should know at this point in New
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: York of our Ward twenty twenty three, life is a
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: garbage fire. It's not great for anyone.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: We're all part of. Like why that is?
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: And like, to me, I feel connecting with someone like
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, it's this interesting, like it's almost like a hobby.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: How much I enjoy plugging in to everything about her
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: and being vulnerable because I know it's a safe space
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: to do that, And I know if I'm going online
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: to be like, oh this is about Taylor or whatever
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: or look up news, it is never going to be doomsday.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: Fuck yourself. You're not good enough, You're not welcome here.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: It is why people play D and D. It is
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: why peop well do things like Renaissance fairs. It is
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: my personal place, an island to go to to just
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: like able to be me. It's fine, and it's okay.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: You maybe thirteen, you maybe eighty nine. We're all here
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: for the same reason, and I'm sorry, Like I am
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: thankful that this person exists and is giving us access
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: to the parts of her life she chooses to share
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: and able to access our own sort of feelings about
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: who we are.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: And the anger is eventually sadness because I'm like, you
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: decided that it was Taylor's swift job to make you
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable with something that you're struggling with, instead of
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: like checking in with your mental health professional and going, hey,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: when I saw that on Taylor shot me feel this. Yeah,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: it made me feel this. Can we because there are
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: going to be triggers.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Like listen, I've heard so many people who are content creators,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: who are writing big pieces about the things, who are
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: very involved in like pop culture at large, say things
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: like the following, it's fine, she's great.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it's just not for me. Just I
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: And it's like to like to the but that's like
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: to convey this like I don't have to be nice
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: to her, kind of like do you know, it's lifting
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: a veil of social decency that I don't like and
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: I don't get why it's fair just because it's like
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: someone being like, I mean, they don't take this the
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: wrong way, but people being like she's great, she's going,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: it's just not for me, and then telling me something
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: where they just like really hate about her or like
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: why they don't love it when a lot of people
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: are around that like her or whatever. The story you're
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: about to share is to me like they never stick
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: the landing. The premise does not match, Like nothing about
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: this is worthy of news. You don't need to be
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: sharing it with me. Like it feels very much like
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: someone just kind of like throwing up in security on themselves.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: Like she's become this interesting mirror of just what is beauty,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: what is fame? What is like success? And it scared
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: has been shitless. We've seen this in almost every man
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: who's come in contact with her, I'll be honest. And
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: it also has just had this like very interesting group
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: of effect with women that like as much as like
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: we are a bipartisan state politically, I mean, you know,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: I'm a child of the eighties and nineties, so I
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: say that from yesteryear now it's decimated. It's not the divertisan,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: I don't recognize it. But like it is interesting that
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: people humanity is still going to like form opinions and
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: sides on all things. Like it's like we could be
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: anarchists living in the evermore woods trying to like gather
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: and hunt, and there would be a thing that we
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: all felt a way about like this, like it may
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: not be a person like it. It's an interesting and
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: I think beautiful sort of study in human made sure
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: when we have somebody so such a lynch pen for
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: popular culture over such a long period of time, it's
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: like I'm a donna think it's like Michael Jackson was fine.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: Like people were okay with all the famous men being
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: really famous and go to their jobs. I just don't
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: remember anyone being mad at it. I don't wrong.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: I don't remember Taylor Swift ever moving miners into her
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: mansion and telling their parents to mind their business about
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: what they were doing.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: Let's go there too, Okay, she didn't key on anyone.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: There's no rape involved. Like, let's go all the way
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: into the closet with our Kelly. Let's just get real
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: about our idols and pop stars.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, as we know. I love and breathe David Bowie,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: but I had to swallow some hard truth after he died,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: and because I am an at my core, I am
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: a lover of music and art. Urgently, my body, my
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: voice and whatever just never got practiced enough in the
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: art of music, but my brain has always gone, Yes,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: I am a lover of music in a.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: Way artists and you feel like music se see.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I love Bowie and I had to fuck it.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: I have the Rolling Stones, Aerosmith. You have to fucking
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: swallow some hard truth about these bands that you grew
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: up with in your kitchen and your mommy said it
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: was okay to listen to, and then you find out
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: years later in your upper twenties that they were fucking
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: seventeen year olds the entire time, and then being like, well,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: we didn't id anybody and blaming the girls while writing
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: songs about fucking fifteen year old's poison. We have promised,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're promising the Patreon numbers now that they
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: actually get to hear us talk about fun stuff about Taylor.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: And stuff, because there's so.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Much you guys. So and I kind of have a
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: heart out at ten to fifteen.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: Because to tell me that napologist listed it's only.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: Because I have to like do like therapy with my
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: feral panther. If you can, let's move into our closing
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: of the show. If you wanted to shout from a rooftop,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: one lesson you have learned from Taylor Swift her career
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: and the backlash that she has warranted. I guess what
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: would your lesson be? You're on your own kid, You've
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: always had it. It truly hits me every time, every time,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: every time I think, you're on your own kid is
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: so beautiful, And I think that people just believe that,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: like rich, pretty people just have all of these people
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: who are backing them up and loving them and whatever.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: And I just don't think we've ever sat to be like, okay,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: but like, how did Charlie Sheen end up?
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: How he had listen the beauty and truth in the song?
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: It is so naked and honest, I can think of
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: any celebrity listening to that song and just dissolve literally
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: like it is. It is so bad and it was
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: so true.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: So and I think my biggest lesson is and it's
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: one that I think I actually learned. No, it's not
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: one that I've learned. It's one that Stephanie reminds me
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: of every time I am sad about something that someone
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: has said about me that I do not actually feel
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: was justified or actually spoke to my truth or actually
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: defined my character. And it's always if they're gonna say it,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: fucking live it. And that's what she does that's why
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: when you texted me and you're like, Anti Hero is
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: gonna be your favorite number on this album? And then
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: I texted you when I listened to the whole album
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: and I went with I was like, did you not
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: listen to did Giant show?
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: That is what's here's what's funny about the true life
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: story of that. I hadn't yet. I was made first
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: to listen. I literally was like, so high on Anti Hero.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: It's so good.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: So it was fucking high on it, like I got
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: the final girl I was that was It's like it
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: should be a holiday the day this, Oh my god,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: is love at all? Yeah?
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: So I was like, first listen, texting you live.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: I love that, but oh yeah, people who try to
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: shoot on the Lantic show, we need to live on
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: separate islands.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Cat when you're sharp enough to kill a me.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: It's so fucking good and it's so great that it's
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: about skinner brawl and I love I love everything about it.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: The line I don't dress for women. I don't dress
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: for men. Lately I've been dressing for revenge. I'm like, yes,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: it's amazing. Not only is it like so.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: Of the moment relevant, Like I love how she weaves,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: and people don't give her credit for this at all.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: She weaves these like socio political sort of like threads
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: and to her songs in ways that are not as
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: obvious as like tear graps on my guitar, you know,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: like they are very subtle. There's many, many layers, and
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: I think she does that very well in this instance,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: in this sort of non binary kind of fluid and
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: that that allegory is that it's her style, that she's
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: like dressed the makeup and a clothing that really what
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: she's talking about is like actual politics and business and
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: real vengeful shit. It's oh man, it gives me the
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: same kind of feels that they got the first time
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: I saw the Bad Blood video.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: What's your manifestation for everyone in our collective universe?
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: I would just love for all of us to be
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: brave enough to live stupidly and honestly and out loud
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: in a way that is easy to make fun Because
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: if you are not easy to make fun of honestly,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: I just don't know like you might be ver much
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: to say you might.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: All of the people who love me the most are
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: the people who make fun of me the most.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: As it should be like.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: I think that that's all part of living life loudly
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: and loudly and with joy.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: And I can visualize so many people smiling to themselves
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: right now, and that was for you. I think my
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: manifestation is I hope you want everyone to live a
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: life where they're easy to make fun of. I'm ready
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: for everyone to start living the lives where they walk
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: into the room and go, it's me, Hi, I'm the problem.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: It's me. Be more problematic, and like, be a problem
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: for the things that are bothering you. For this misogynistic bullshit,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: for this tracking of our sex lives, for this, make
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: rules about who's allowed to hate their body vocally and
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: who's allowed to hate their body in silence, or what
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: beauty is, or what beauty is, or whether or not
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: you should be hating your own body, because I've had
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: people tell me, don't you hate your body? No, I'm
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: a hot girl. I do hot shit.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: I say I hate my body sometimes when people are
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: literally like, what right?
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: I Sometimes we just say that we hate our bodies
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: because we think it's what we're supposed to say so
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: people continue to like us.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. I've tried to get laid before by
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: cool dedes by being like, I hate this so.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: Much, right, so fuck you and your cool indie record
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: that was so much better than mine. I'm your problem, bitch.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: It's me and I I've gotta tell everybody in my
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: personal life or all of the people that I meet
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: who think I want to hate this girl hang with
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: hateless girl.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: I want to.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: I'm always going to be the problem. I can't turn
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: it up. I literally told my therapist out yesterday. I
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: was like, Hey, did you think your job was working?
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: Is broken foreverm I.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: Was like, I can't turn up my podcast persona to
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: stop telling people that their internalized misogyny is a motherfucking problem.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: And sometimes we're just at Baskin Robins and people don't
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: want to hear, so they're fucking internalized misogyny is a
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: god damn problem.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, but we're all made and meant to
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: affect lives daily in different ways, and think about the
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: insidious and nuanced ways. Every day of the thirty nine
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: years i've been alive, I've been given the message that
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: pretty is too much and not enough. Ben is a problem,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: and the answer being a sled and having all the
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: sex makes you the best and the worst. Like we
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: are all living the same share experience in one way
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: or another, all women who grew up at any point
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: in time. So the fact that there's a place to
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: come on and just fucking vent about it and spew
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: like you're the patron saint of I don't know, like
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: feminist healing. Like it's very.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Put me on a candle and sell me.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: A candle of Taylor. Actually that I sometimes think my
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: postal roommate may be busin't the thinking, Oh really, it's
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: like one of those like the pur of candles.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because she is my Like, that's to me and
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: we'll wrap it up this way.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: Taylor such as a patron saint of living genuinely in
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: a way that brings actual success, and that's just the
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: shit out of men and women both.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: She's living so genuinely that you that people don't think
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: that she's doing it. That's right, like because they both
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: get to see the genuine and also live in in
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: wonder of the gitu.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: So, I just watched the episode of Full House the
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: other day. It's one of my comforts where DJ puts
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: on too much makeup for middle school. First day, and
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: then Aunt Becky has to come in and be like
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: the key to makeup. She talked weirdly, porny go back
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: and watch it, you guys, she would she didn't makeup,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: isn't he don't think you're away? And so then she
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: teaches to her how to do like no makeup makeup
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: look like forty years before TikTok or some ships, and
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: she does it, goes to school. This is what I'm
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: saying is tailors with living. Her life is like the
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: nineteen nineties magazine version of like and then makeup makeup look.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: She makes you believe whatever it is right for you
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: to believe that day about her, who she is and
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: what she's doing. Whether you decide to participate in that
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: social experiment isn't actually up to you, because you're gonna
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: hear about her anyway, so you're gonna think things about
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: it and about her.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 3: And I very.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: Much enjoy the kind of social experiment that the reaction
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: to Taylor Swift has become.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: Well, Elizabeth, tell them where they can find you because
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: they love you.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm apparently right here forever I live here.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 3: This is this has been so much fun. I'm like
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: wait to read done.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: We're done, but we're not done because we're going to
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: do bonus content Patreon.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: So you can find me on all socials at Final
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: Girl Scout. I will warn you now I go dart
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: every once in a while. I just need banks from
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: social media, but I am there. I love collaborating. You
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: are a musician looking for podcast hosts or guess I
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: can talk bullshit about anything you guys, mostly Taylor Swift
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: and Horn movies, but uh yeah, I just enjoy meeting
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: creative people doing interesting projects. And Natalie is one of
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: those people that I met doing these things. And this
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: has been that's been fantastic.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: Everyone, you know what it is. It's the Instagram, it's been.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: I have tolerated pod that. I'll have a link to
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: the TikTok, the YouTube, the still comfy schedule, the Patreon
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: where you're gonna want to be like, man, this was
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: great about like Taylor stomping all over the patriarchy, but like,
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to talk about the Lover album. Cool,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: it's on Patreon. Give me five dollars a month, that's
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: all you can hear me talk about Lover. But everyone
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: just remember out there you don't have to smile through
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: anything you're tolerating, including building a hell of a career,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: just to have everyone tell you that you don't deserve
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: it and you didn't work hard for it, even though
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: you're a mastermind. Smiles are pretty
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: Good, then are the Rod