Latest / Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint / The Invisible Ink of Communication: Uncovering Hidden Messages with Active Listening & Body Language

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The Invisible Ink of Communication: Uncovering Hidden Messages with Active Listening & Body Language · Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint

0:01
Hello, and welcome to the show. Today is going to be a noisy
0:05
episode because I'm still out and about, but at least I've
0:07
wound up the windows, so hopefully there shouldn't be too
0:09
much noise bleeding in from the background.
0:12
Now today we're going to continue with the book review.
0:15
OK, well, it's not a book review.
0:17
I know I promised you a book review in 2024.
0:20
But what we're doing now is we're going to explore some
0:22
themes from a sales perspective. And the book that we're looking
0:26
at is by Jeremy Hurwitz, How to Sell Like a Spy, The Art of
0:31
Persuasion from the world of espionage.
0:34
And this is your first time of listening to the podcast, so
0:37
excuse me. We started off on this journey
0:40
yesterday. So I think yesterday what I did
0:43
was I explored the main thesis of the book, the main idea of
0:46
the book, which is that people who are in the intelligence
0:51
world, people who are in the espionage world, you know,
0:53
spies, James Bond, diplomats, you know, people like that, they
0:57
have to use three main skills to do their job effectively.
1:01
One of those skills is information gathering, because
1:04
of course you need to know what's up.
1:06
The other one is understanding human behaviour because you need
1:08
to understand who, who are you talking to?
1:10
Where is this person coming from?
1:12
Can I trust this person? And then another one is building
1:14
rapport because you know, when you get people to open up and
1:18
talk about themselves, reveal their secrets, you know, things
1:21
like that, unless you guys are vibing, unless you guys are
1:25
flowing, unless you guys like each other.
1:27
So it's an essential skill that people in that part of the world
1:31
have to do, you know, James Bond and, you know, diplomats and
1:36
more or not. And it's also essential skill
1:38
that those of us in business have to do as well.
1:41
So wherever you are in the world, you know, whether you're
1:45
in Makudi, you're in Abuja or Alaska, you have to be involved
1:49
in information gathering, understanding human behavior and
1:52
building rapport if you're a business person.
1:54
So the whole point of the book is that there's some overlap in
1:58
these skills. So diplomats and spies have to
2:01
use these skills. And then those of us who are
2:03
regular everyday ordinary business people, even though
2:06
we're not involved in car chases and explosions and things like
2:09
that, and even though we're not negotiating with our presidents
2:14
and heads of state and, you know, traditional artist or
2:18
whatever, we'll have to use these skills as well.
2:21
So that was pretty much what we covered in the intro video.
2:24
Sorry, not video audio. There's no video component to
2:27
this podcast yet. You know, I'll get to it soon,
2:30
but not today. Yeah.
2:33
So that's what we we did yesterday.
2:35
If this your first time of listening to the show, after
2:37
you're done listening to this podcast, skip back one episode.
2:41
Listen to that and you get caught up to speed.
2:43
Now, if you'd love to connect with me, the phone number is
2:46
08064662140. The country code is +234.
2:52
For those of you who are not Nigerian, that's my WhatsApp
2:54
number as well. Then connect with me on socials
2:58
on LinkedIn. The name to look for is Tave
3:00
Shima Aidi. So we're continuing with the
3:04
themes from the book today. And I promised you guys
3:08
yesterday that we would now look at Chapter 1, which is the art
3:11
of the approach, understand your audience and tailor your
3:16
approach accordingly. So again, Chapter 1 is titled
3:20
The Art of the Approach. Understand your audience and
3:24
tailor your approach accordingly.
3:27
And in that particular Chapter 2 of the key things, Abby, yeah,
3:34
two of the key things that he explored there were active
3:37
listening and observing body language, because this is all
3:41
about understanding your audience.
3:45
And of course, you don't want to understand them until you
3:48
observe them. And the process of observing is
3:51
going to involve active listening, is going to involve
3:54
body language. So from a business perspective,
3:59
now from a traditional sales perspective, what is the whole
4:01
point of understanding your audience?
4:04
Why do we do this? Well, of course, the answer is
4:08
implied in the title that the fellow gave for the chapter.
4:12
We try to understand the audience so that we can tailor
4:15
our approach because from sales and business development, we
4:19
know that there's no one-size-fits-all.
4:21
If I'm trying to sell to a 60 year old Yoruba woman,
4:25
traditionally minded, spent all her life in Ibadan, it's not
4:29
necessarily the same way that I'm going to sell.
4:31
If I'm selling to a another Yoruba woman of the same age,
4:36
well maybe she's more cosmopolitan and she was raised
4:39
in London or New York or something and she only just got
4:42
back to Niger, you know, maybe like 2-3 years ago.
4:45
So same age, you know, but because of differences in
4:50
background and orientation, I would have to sell to them
4:53
differently. Whether I'm selling consulting
4:55
services or whether I'm selling fashion or whether I'm trying to
4:58
sell a house, the approach would be different.
5:01
So there is no one-size-fits-all.
5:04
This is another reason why I tell you guys to stop believing
5:07
this crap and that people put on the Internet where they say
5:09
learn this one clothes and double triple your profits.
5:13
Something some some there is no one-size-fits-all.
5:17
The same way. If you try to sell the same way
5:20
like you want to sell to me and the same way that you're going
5:23
to sell to your popsy or momsy, it's hit and miss.
5:26
You know, you have to tell her your approach, your mom saying
5:28
your Popsy are different. I mean, think about it, when we
5:32
were kids or when you were a kid, if you want to get
5:34
something from Mumsy, there's a way you would go.
5:36
If you want to get something from POPSY, there's a way you
5:38
would go. It's the same thing.
5:40
So that is why we need to understand our audience so that
5:43
we can tell our approach. Now, the whole point of telling
5:46
the approach is so that it's personalized, it's relevant, and
5:50
of course, at the end of the day, it's going to be much more
5:53
effective. So that's the reason why we have
5:56
to bother with understanding our audience.
5:59
So hopefully, The thing is, if our approach is relevant to them
6:03
and is personalized, hopefully this should lead to profitable
6:08
and fulfilling engagements. And the reason why we're trying
6:12
to achieve all this is because this is the best and easiest way
6:16
to get referrals. So again, back at the top, why
6:22
should we bother tailoring our approach?
6:24
We're telling the approach so that we can sell effectively
6:27
because you can't sell the same way to every single person.
6:31
If you sell effectively and you sell in a personalized manner,
6:34
hopefully it's going to lead to a pleasurable experience for
6:37
somebody. On the other hand, a good user
6:39
experience, a good customer experience.
6:41
And when we have good user experience and customer
6:43
experience, it's easier to get referrals.
6:45
And remember that when it comes to traditional sales, it's not
6:49
just about the money that you collect now, it's about the
6:51
money that you're going to collect tomorrow, next month,
6:54
next year. So nowadays, especially the
6:56
online crowd, everybody's worried about, you know, do the
7:00
promo, get the deal now, blah, blah, blah, and all of that is
7:03
good. But in traditional sales, I
7:06
mean, think about it, those of those people who started off
7:09
selling insurance, office equipment or things like that,
7:13
you know, yes, if you go and sell office equipment and you
7:15
know, they pay you, you know, 50 M, you know, it's good.
7:18
The Commission there, yeah, let's say the Commission there
7:20
is 10%, you know, you know, that's, that's nice.
7:22
You go on flex. But The thing is nobody likes
7:26
that life of OK, this year I sold, you know, 200 M.
7:29
Next year I have to go and look for 200 M to sell.
7:31
So traditionally the scope has always been OK, yes, I got these
7:34
people to buy from me this year, 50 M next year, let me see if
7:38
they can buy something else. Even if it's one M2M, you know,
7:42
it's not bad. So that over time, when you have
7:45
a steady roster of customers, you even have to decrease, you
7:49
can now relax and decrease the level of selling activity that
7:52
you have to do. So you don't have to wake up
7:54
every day, every year and hit the floor hard chasing
7:57
customers. So that's the scope.
8:01
Remember, when we're talking about traditional sales, it's
8:03
not just the money we're collecting now.
8:05
We're looking for repeat business.
8:06
We're looking for referrals, we're looking for upsells.
8:09
We're looking to try and expand the amount of money that people
8:12
are spending with us or the number of times that they buy
8:15
from us. So that's the goal.
8:17
So all these are the reasons why understanding your audience is
8:20
important. Now, how do we do this?
8:22
We can do this well from the book anyway.
8:25
We can do this by doing two things, active listening and
8:27
then observing body language. Also, forgive me, I forgot to do
8:30
the shout outs. The shout outs have been piling
8:34
up so I'm going to be running through them in in batches.
8:36
So for today's batch, I'm going to shout out Felicia.
8:40
And Felicia owns Alicia Cuisine in Makudi in Benue State, so
8:45
she's one of my home girls. Felicia, thank you very much for
8:48
reaching out. She reached out to me on
8:50
WhatsApp. I can't remember where she
8:52
started listening to the podcast from then.
8:54
Also shout out to Una Min Christopher, who also reached
8:59
out to me on WhatsApp. Also can't remember whether he
9:03
started listening to the podcast on Spotify, iTunes or on what's
9:08
the other one, Spotify, iTunes or YouTube.
9:12
Yeah. But thank you for reaching out,
9:13
and I hope I pronounced your name correctly.
9:15
Una Min, I'm assuming that you are, you know, Midwestern, you
9:20
know, Benin, you know, Edo Isha, you know, that kind of thing.
9:25
So if you are, then you're also my homeboy too, because I happen
9:29
to marry from that part of the country.
9:31
So, you know, we're kin, we're relatives.
9:33
Then I'm also going to shout out LTE Mart.
9:37
I didn't get the real name 'cause, you know, we're chatting
9:39
through his WhatsApp handle, found the show on Spotify, and
9:44
he's into digital marketing. So LTE Mart, thanks for
9:47
listening to the show. And then finally, I'm going to
9:50
shout out Emerald. Emerald works with Compass AI
9:54
and they use artificial intelligence to augment learning
9:58
processes, you know, for their clients.
10:00
And they're currently, we've started conversations and see
10:04
how I can become a, a research person on the platform, a mentor
10:09
on the platform. And I'll keep you guys posted on
10:11
how those conversations go, whether it works out well or it
10:14
doesn't work out well. It sounds like a handy piece of
10:16
technology to check out. So it's Compass, AICOMPAS and
10:21
then AI, you know, letter a letter I artificial
10:24
intelligence. So check them out.
10:26
So those are the shout outs for today.
10:27
Felicia, shout out to you, Uneming shout out to you, LTE
10:31
Mark, mark and then emerald. OK, so now back to how we're
10:37
going to where was I? I understanding the audience how
10:42
we're going to do it. Now this book proposes that we
10:45
do it through two ways, active listening and then observing
10:48
body language. Now, I'm going to run through
10:50
some ideas when it comes to traditional sales and business
10:53
development, the things that you do to make sure that you are
10:57
listening actively and to make sure that you are observing body
11:01
language. So for active listening, I think
11:04
I mentioned to you guys yesterday that active listening
11:06
doesn't just mean you're trying to listen hard because well,
11:10
anyway, there's no need for me to cover it again.
11:12
But it's not just about sitting down and staying at the other
11:14
person to show that you're listening hard.
11:17
But yes, you do have to be focusing on the customer,
11:20
focusing on the speaker, focusing on the stakeholder.
11:23
So if you are a diplomat and you've been posted to let me see
11:30
where, where will I say, OK, yesterday I said Washington, DC,
11:33
let me see where else? OK.
11:34
So if you're a diplomat and you become the ambassador for
11:37
Nigeria to Afghanistan, you know, don't say Afghanistan, God
11:42
forbid, you know, I'm sure that your quarters are going to be
11:45
secure. And the good thing about the
11:47
posting is I'm sure you're going to be paid in dollars anyway.
11:49
So you're probably going to be earning a lot more than your
11:53
counterparts back home. And, you know, people who are
11:55
the similar salary grade in other, in other parts of the
11:59
civil service. So if they appoint you to be
12:01
ambassador of Afghanistan, I know Afghanistan is not as cool
12:04
as Washington DC, but still go to church, declare his goodness,
12:10
you know, accept your congratulations, you know, go
12:12
forth and explore the career because you're definitely going
12:14
to be earning more than somebody who is in Ministry of Health or
12:18
or NTA, you know, on the same, on the same, what's it called
12:24
level. OK, yes.
12:26
So also one moment I need to attend to something here.
12:34
OK, sorry about that. I am back.
12:36
I had to attend to my wife quickly and that's because we're
12:40
currently trying to move house. If you've been listening for the
12:43
last week, you already know the while that we're going through,
12:46
you know, dealing with agencies, man, there's something else.
12:50
And then agents in Abuja have become mad as in everywhere you
12:53
go, people are asking you for inspection or fee.
12:54
Inspection or fee. I mean, 20 K's if you're an
12:57
apartment. I'm like, are you guys crazy?
13:00
Because I mean, understand that the country is hard, but I mean,
13:04
let's face it, before you move house, you look at like, you
13:06
know, 5 or 6 places maybe. So you just like that.
13:10
You just pay 100 grand in inspection fees.
13:13
And you know, you real estate people and then lawyers, I know
13:21
you guys think you're a valuable part of the, of the value chain.
13:25
But looking at it from a customer's point of view, you
13:28
know, as far as we're concerned, like you guys are doing
13:30
absolutely nothing. The houses are dirty, you know,
13:34
they haven't been cleaned up. I mean nothing.
13:36
So like, what exactly are we paying for?
13:38
You know, you say oh, transportation, you know,
13:40
whatever, but you know, it's my car.
13:41
Know who came I picked you up and who've been driving around
13:43
and supposed to be paying you 20 K for what?
13:45
So anyway, agency, wahala, you know, blah blah blah.
13:49
And apparently people are afraid of Yahoo, Yahoo boys now.
13:54
So, you know, you don't have to fill a form so that the landlord
13:59
can have a look and vet who you are.
14:01
And it's just interesting to see how things have changed in the
14:04
last eight years because I think the last time I moved house was
14:07
about maybe 8-9 years ago. So I didn't know that things
14:10
have become this, what's the word, stressful or whatever.
14:16
So yeah, yeah, was supposed to fill the form and wifey just
14:20
came to give me the form. So I'm going to fill it off now
14:23
and then send it to the landlord so that they can vet and be sure
14:26
that we are decent people. But apparently people don't like
14:31
renting houses to Ebo people in Abuja because everywhere I go,
14:34
that's the first thing they ask me, are you Ebo?
14:36
I'm like, wow. And this is harsh.
14:39
And then also people are afraid of Yahoo, Yahoo boys because the
14:42
next thing they ask me is what do you do?
14:44
What is your job? And interesting times that we
14:48
live in. I'm sure if it was in the UK or
14:51
America, some, you know, asking people these sorts of questions
14:54
would be what's the word? I don't know.
14:58
I don't know if I should say unconstitutional.
15:00
I'll be, I'll be, is it illegal? But anyway, it's an interesting
15:04
house moving process. So if you have to move house
15:06
anytime soon and you're based in Abuja, just beware that these
15:09
are some of the things that lie ahead for you.
15:13
So if you're an able guy living in Abuja and you do your work
15:16
online, any good luck, Good luck trying to convince people that
15:20
you're not a Yahoo Yahoo boy. So anyway, fantastic sign of the
15:24
times that we live in right now. Okay, sorry, where was I?
15:30
And so I was talking about how let's say you have been, you've
15:35
been elevated at hand to the rank of ambassador now and
15:38
you've been posted to Afghanistan.
15:40
So Afghanistan is as juicy as Washington DC.
15:42
But don't you're still earning in dollars and you're still
15:44
going to be earning much more money than, you know, people
15:46
like my father who worked in NTA and NOA and then other people
15:50
who are working in maybe Ministry of Health or something
15:52
like that, even though all of you are on level 14 or level 16
15:55
or level whatever. So to be good at your job when
16:00
you arrive in Afghanistan, you're going to need to learn
16:02
how to focus on the other person that you are speaking to.
16:06
So as a diplomat, you're not going to have a customer, but
16:09
they're going to be people that you're talking to, other
16:11
stakeholders in the country, other people in the diplomatic
16:15
service over there in Afghanistan.
16:18
And you're going to always have to be focused on the person that
16:20
you're talking to. Because if you show up to the
16:24
honourable minister or something, something, something
16:26
in Afghanistan, you show up in his office and while the guy is
16:29
talking to you, you know, the guy can see clearly that, you
16:35
know, you're lost in the days or maybe you're sleepy or
16:37
something. That is not going to be a
16:39
fruitful conversation. So it's also the same thing in
16:41
business, active listening involves showing that you are
16:45
being focused on the person that is right in front of you, in
16:49
this case our customers. So we have to be present at all
16:53
times. Now, as of the date of this
16:56
recording in 2025, there's a particular warning that I want
16:59
to give to all of you, especially those of you who are
17:03
on the younger end of the spectrum.
17:04
So those of you who are 3020 below, for those of us who are
17:10
4050 and above, this is not so much of a problem.
17:13
But for those of you who are young, please just take it.
17:17
You will not agree, but just take it like this.
17:20
Mobile phones, keep them away, put them on silent, maybe even
17:26
switch them off. OK, just put it on silent and
17:29
then put it in your bag or put it in your pocket.
17:31
But sure, keep it away, keep it out of sight.
17:35
Because if your phone is there and you're talking to the
17:38
customer and somebody pings you, even if you pick up the phone
17:42
and look to say, OK, let me see who is pinging?
17:44
Is he wifey? Is he boyfriend?
17:47
Is he bouncy? Is it pastor?
17:49
Is it a mom even if you just do it 5 or 6 times during a 30
17:54
minute meeting, you are passing across messages to the other
17:58
person that look, I don't rate you, some of you won't agree,
18:04
but just just take it. Take it on my advice please,
18:09
listening about phones, put it on silent.
18:12
Put it in your bag, put it away. Don't leave it on the table
18:16
while you're talking to the person.
18:18
In fact, in the West, in America and in the UK, they now have
18:23
statistics that show that even the presence of the mobile
18:28
device, as in you didn't touch it, but it is there within arm
18:32
of reach even that is beginning to give the impression that you
18:36
are not listening, you're not here 100%, you don't rate the
18:39
other person. So please, for those of us who
18:43
are 40, you know, 353025, please just keep the phone away and put
18:55
it on silent. Don't touch it, don't fiddle,
19:00
don't you know, whatever. Sure, for some professions you
19:03
might have to stop and check something.
19:07
And, you know, in that case it won't be a problem because I've
19:08
been with the doctor and we've been having conversations and
19:11
the guy was like, what? Look, you know what, I think it
19:15
might be this, it might be this, but let me just confer with my
19:18
colleague in National Hospital. 1 moment, please.
19:21
Let me make a brief phone call. Then he reached down into his
19:24
desk and pulled out the phone and then made a phone call.
19:26
You see that? That's a different thing.
19:28
In that case, him touching the phone is showing that he is
19:31
paying attention to me because he's trying to confer with
19:34
another specialist before giving a diagnosis and then giving me
19:38
treatment. So yes, there'll be times when
19:40
you have to touch the phone, but as a general rule, we're
19:43
focusing on the customer, we're focusing on the other person
19:47
mobile phones. Please just leave it now.
19:50
Maybe it's also a generational thing.
19:52
So maybe if you are 17 and you're trying to do business
19:55
with somebody else who is 20, I don't know, maybe the dynamics
19:59
are difference with that age group.
20:02
So you guys can both be talking and being on your phones at the
20:05
same time and you know that you respect each other, you rate
20:07
each other. So maybe.
20:10
But it doesn't work across all generations.
20:13
So mobile phone, be careful. Then show that you are
20:17
interested. One way they show you're
20:19
interested is in eye contact and body language.
20:23
But please let me give you a warning because some of us only
20:26
read western books. When we talk about eye contact
20:29
and body language, let us remember that there is a
20:31
cultural context to it and that there are cultural assumptions
20:35
that go into it. Because if you read only western
20:38
books, western books say maintain firm eye contact, look
20:42
the person straight in the eye. So yes, for Canada, for America,
20:49
for the UK, that is a way of showing respect.
20:52
Like Sir, I am here, I am with you, mommy, I am here, I am with
20:56
you, I am listening. In some cultures, direct,
21:00
sustained long term eye contacts is if I have some cases, it
21:08
might be an affront. You might leave.
21:12
And then the people who say, huh, see that, see that small
21:15
girl, see that small boy, she has the guy bold, you know, it
21:19
might be an affront. So please, when we're reading
21:23
Western business books and stuff like that, remember that this
21:27
thing is this cultural context and their cultural assumptions,
21:32
they're going to play. So eye contact, yes, maintain
21:35
eye contact, but please, you know, it's culturally dependent
21:39
body language also culturally dependent.
21:41
The example that I give on the podcast, and I'm going to stress
21:43
here again, is I'm teve from binary state in my own place.
21:48
If you want to have a one-on-one conversation, like the person
21:51
wants to join you straight, the person wants to level with you,
21:55
you actually will sit side to side in the West is different.
22:00
You will sit across each other, but in my own part of the world,
22:04
when the conversation is getting serious, you know, especially if
22:08
he's an elder person, the other person will get sure for you to
22:10
come and sit side to side. And by the way, when you're
22:13
sitting side to side, have you noticed you cannot be
22:16
maintaining direct eye contact? So that's why I'm saying these
22:20
things are culturally dependent. So in the West, if you're
22:23
sitting opposite each other, direct eye contact very good.
22:27
You're paying attention. But depending on where you're
22:30
from, if you are from some middle belt cultures, you know
22:33
two people, you know plateau people and the conversation is
22:37
getting serious. You know the older person or the
22:40
senator or the chairman would get sure to you they should come
22:43
and sit right here next to him. And you guys are now talking.
22:47
And in that case, I'm interested.
22:52
Body language is more of you're sitting side to side and maybe
22:55
you guys are leaning close to each other.
22:58
So there are some cultures where there's no eye contact, but you
23:01
guys are sitting side to side leading into each other.
23:03
And hey, it means you guys are building rapport.
23:06
There are some cultures where sitting opposite each other
23:09
might be adversarial, as in you guys are are strangers.
23:13
So please, when reading these books, bear in mind cultural
23:18
context, cultural assumptions. It's the same thing with the
23:21
handshake. The first time I met a Nigerian
23:26
who had been born and bred in Canada, it was a rude shock to
23:29
me because the fellow was younger and who was meeting me,
23:33
who was meeting Mumsy and was meeting another gentleman who at
23:39
the time was close to 70 years old.
23:42
Now this Nigerian guy born in Canada walks in and proceeds to
23:45
stretch out his hand and shake all of us, introduce himself and
23:49
say nice to meet you. For me, it was a very jarring
23:52
experience, very because you know, those who was born here in
23:56
Niger, you know, we understand now that in the presence of the
23:59
elder, you don't just go and then stretch your hand and you
24:01
know, is the elder, you go and of course you greet, you know,
24:04
good afternoon, Sir. You know, good morning, Sir.
24:06
You know, whatever. But if there's going to be a
24:08
handshake, I'm assuming in most cultures, I think for even for,
24:12
I think even for Yoruba people, I think it is the older man or
24:15
the older woman who will extend their hand first.
24:18
You will now accept the handshake.
24:20
So was jarring for me and I had to keep reminding myself like,
24:23
OK, this guy doesn't know he's he's from Canada.
24:26
He's from Canada. You know, after we're done, I
24:28
want to talk to him. I'll talk to him.
24:30
Now. Look, hey, dude, you know where
24:32
you're coming from. That's cool.
24:33
But in this part of the world, it's it's a bit too forward and
24:39
might be disrespectful. But yes, if you're in Canada,
24:42
that is the proper thing to do. You walk in and you say, oh,
24:45
good morning, Sir, my name is James.
24:48
Nice to meet you. Delighted.
24:49
So and then you stretch out your hand in Canada.
24:51
That's good. Nigeria, maybe not.
24:54
But read the room. It depends.
24:58
It depends on the context. So let me see what else?
25:03
OK, let me move on because I've spent much time on that then.
25:06
OK, show interest. Let's see what else I have.
25:09
Clarifying questions. That's also part of active
25:11
listening. You should be asking questions
25:14
to know what's up. Oh, sorry, Sir.
25:16
Sorry, Ma. Oh, Bros.
25:17
When you said that, did you mean this or did you mean that?
25:21
Sorry, I didn't understand this part.
25:22
I didn't understand that part. It's OK.
25:25
Clarifying questions. And I think that's the example
25:27
that I gave yesterday in the intro when I was talking about
25:31
how women do this very well when they're having conversations,
25:35
you know, especially on personal matters.
25:37
The woman says something. I say, are you serious?
25:41
He said what? That's an invitation for the
25:44
other woman to talk some more or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
25:48
He did this. Who does that?
25:53
No, you don't mean it. You know, and all these sorts of
25:56
things. These are ways of inviting the
26:00
person to clarify, to probe more, to explore.
26:04
So you know that. But those are, you know, more
26:06
like personal dynamics. But we can do the same thing in
26:08
business. Well, in business, we just have
26:10
to be much more direct about it. So I do things.
26:13
I just refer back to another conversation.
26:15
I would say, hey, bro, sorry when you said this is this is
26:19
sorry you lost me there. I'm I'm not sure what you meant
26:21
by that. You know, did you mean this or
26:22
did you mean that? So that's how I go about it.
26:25
But pick the way that works for you.
26:26
Either way. Active listening, part of active
26:30
listening is using clarifying questions when you're asking
26:33
questions to clarify. The old boss, when you said
26:35
this, what did you mean? Madam, when you said this, what
26:37
did you mean? Boss or Madam will understand
26:40
that. OK, this guy is here with me.
26:41
This guy is following, this guy is tracking.
26:43
This guy is paying attention. Then summarize and feedback is
26:49
also part of active listening. I do this a lot before we move
26:52
on, you know it. I would just summarize that as
26:54
OK, OK, bro, if I understand you so far, So what you've been
26:57
saying is 123 and 456. I'll be did I?
27:00
Did I get it correctly? It is good to do that because if
27:04
you have missed the point, that's the point where the boss
27:06
would say no, no, no, no, no, I did not say that too.
27:09
I did not say ABC 456. I said ABC and 123.
27:14
The reason why it's good to do summarize and feedback is by the
27:18
time the guy says that, you now know that OK, I misunderstood
27:21
him. Now I know the correct position.
27:24
I misunderstood her. The importance of this is if you
27:28
make a mistake at this stage, the early stage where you guys
27:33
are trying to talk business, the mistakes that you make now
27:37
compound in the future. So make sure they get everything
27:40
correct. So active listening, summarize
27:42
our feedback. I do that a lot.
27:43
I'll always summarize and say, OK, if I get you correctly, this
27:46
is what you're saying or this is what you're trying to achieve.
27:50
Are we, are we together? I'm on point.
27:54
Did I understand you correctly? The person will say Oh yes, or
27:57
the person will say no. That's the feedback part.
27:59
Then interruptions, when it comes to active listening, keep
28:02
interruptions to a minimum. But of course, you've seen that
28:05
if you're trying to interrupt somebody because you're trying
28:08
to get feedback, then you can see there's not a bad thing.
28:11
Or if you're interrupting somebody because you're trying
28:13
to get a clarifying question, it might not be a bad thing.
28:16
So, but generally keep interruptions to a minimum.
28:20
Then let's see what else? What else, What else?
28:25
Writing. I advise people if it's a
28:30
business thing, please have a pen and paper and write because
28:36
in the early days of doing business, it's not a problem.
28:38
You're only speaking to maybe one person a week.
28:41
It's not hard. You will remember everything you
28:43
said. But by the time business starts
28:45
to pick up and you start talking to two 3-4 people every day, you
28:49
will forget. You have a meeting with somebody
28:51
at 9, You have another meeting with somebody at 12, you have
28:53
another meeting with somebody at 3.
28:55
By the time you get home at six, you know, be remembering who is
28:58
the person that said this or who is the person that said that or
29:03
what did Ogachukudi say or what did Madame Lolade say.
29:08
You know, you'll forget. So for me, I recommend to people
29:12
just have a pen and paper and write.
29:14
It's also part of active listening.
29:16
In fact, I tell, I recommend that you just tell a person from
29:19
the beginning, I hope you don't mind on the make some notes just
29:21
so I don't forget anything that is also a signal to the other
29:24
person. OK, this young man, this young
29:26
girl is listening. This young man, this young girl,
29:30
we're vibing. They're following me, they're
29:32
interested, they rate me, they're paying attention to me.
29:36
So I recommend writing. Now, if you don't agree with
29:41
writing, I'm not going to force you.
29:42
But you do have to keep some sort of records after this
29:47
meeting with Auger Bayou or with Madam Cindy.
29:51
As you jump inside your car, bring out your pen and paper and
29:55
write down the things that you guys discussed.
29:59
Write it or put it in your CRM or put it in your Google
30:07
Calendar or put it in your Google Notes.
30:09
Put it in your Evernote, put it in your Trello.
30:12
Put it somewhere because you are going to have future
30:16
conversations with Orga Conley and future conversations with
30:19
Madam Cindy. Madam Cindy will not feel like
30:23
you are listening or paying attention or that you rate her.
30:26
If she said something on meeting day one and then on meeting day
30:32
6, she's having to repeat herself all all over again.
30:35
She'll feel as if you're dull, you're daft, you're not paying
30:38
attention, or you don't rate her.
30:41
So even if you're not going to write anything during that
30:42
meeting, after the meeting, as soon as you drop in the car or
30:46
as soon as you get inside the downfall, if you don't have a
30:49
car and you take down full back to where you back to where you
30:52
live, bring out your daughter and start writing things down.
30:55
OK, January 9th meeting, Madam Cindy Venue City Plaza agenda
31:02
12345. You know, just small, sharp,
31:08
sharp, sharp, sharp, sharp outline like that, small, small
31:10
outlines that in the future you can open it, you look at it and
31:14
the whole meeting will just come back to you like that so that
31:16
the next time you see Madam Cindy, you will are not starting
31:19
from fresh. It's not as if you are as if
31:23
she's having to repeat herself again so that you can come
31:26
across as sharp. You know, intelligent, smart.
31:30
Let her nothing, OK, This boy is a dollar or this guy is not
31:33
listening or this guy is sloppy. That is going to be the wrong
31:37
way to instill confidence in Madam Cindy.
31:41
In fact, that's not even stealing confidence.
31:43
Bottom line will be the wrong way to start of this
31:45
relationship that look this young man can't remember all
31:48
these details, how am I supposed to trust him with this project?
31:50
You know, that sort of thing. So by anyway it's up to you
31:53
guys. I recommend just be jotting
31:55
something down during the meeting.
31:57
It is part of active listening. Don't worry, it's not being
31:59
rude, just tell the person. Hope you don't mind if I take
32:03
some notes. If you're not going to write
32:05
during that meeting, no problem. As soon as Madam Cindy stands
32:08
and leaves, remain seated at that table.
32:11
Make some notes then, or go into your car, make some notes or in
32:15
the downfall, make some notes. There are some people who have
32:18
even gone high tech. I've seen some people do it that
32:20
the meeting is over. They now pull out their phone.
32:22
They pull up recorder just like I'm doing now.
32:24
And then they just speak into the recorder.
32:27
You know, that's, that's fine as well.
32:28
Whatever works for you. And the whole point of this
32:33
writing during the meeting or taking notes afterwards is so
32:36
that we can have tailored conversations in the future and
32:41
we can make reference to things that were said earlier.
32:43
And so this is part of how we do active listening. 01 more thing,
32:49
especially for those of you who are tech savvy.
32:51
Somehow, I don't know about Nigeria because we don't have
32:54
research on that. But in the West, in America and
32:57
in the UK, there is research that now shows that if you're
33:01
taking your notes on a laptop, somehow people feel that you are
33:05
distracted. I don't understand.
33:08
Maybe it's because laptops are associated with e-mail,
33:13
browsing, watching YouTube or whatever.
33:17
So you can take your notes on the computer.
33:20
But the recommendation for business for now is use pen and
33:25
paper because when you're using the computer, for some reason
33:28
people feel as if you're still distracted.
33:31
Maybe it's because, you know, people can multitask on
33:34
computers. You can be telling the person
33:36
that, yes, I'm with you, I'm with you and you're typing,
33:38
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And maybe the person is
33:40
wondering, is it what I'm talking that this guy is typing?
33:44
I'll be easy sending or I'll be easy on WhatsApp, you know,
33:47
chatting with his girlfriend, You know, you never know.
33:50
So take records, pen and paper, fine laptops and tablets.
33:57
You know, there's still some debate about that, but maybe
33:59
it's a cultural thing. Maybe Americans and people in
34:02
the UK feel as if you're distracted if you're on the
34:05
laptop during the meeting, but maybe Nigerians don't, don't
34:08
bother. I don't know.
34:09
But be careful then observing body language because here it's,
34:15
it says that we are going to understand our audience by
34:18
active listening. That's what I've been talking
34:19
about for the last oh crap, it's 34 minutes.
34:24
I've been talking about for 34 minutes.
34:26
And then the second one was observing body language.
34:29
So I've already spoken a bit about observing body language.
34:32
So let me just wrap it up here. I remember I said that there's a
34:35
cultural context and there are assumptions to it.
34:37
So don't just take everything hook, line and sink.
34:41
I'll be is it hook, line and sink?
34:42
I'll be hook, line and sinker. Sure.
34:44
Just don't take it as gospel truth because you read it in a
34:47
business book, especially if it happens to be a Western business
34:50
book written in America, written in the UK.
34:53
There are different cultural things to it.
34:56
So like American business books, for instance, we want both of
35:01
you to maintain equal stature and sit at the same chair or the
35:06
same height of chair. But you know, depending on the
35:09
culture, if you're in much more northern situations, for
35:13
instance, it is not unusual for the main guy, for the sugar bar,
35:18
you know, for the leader, for the Alhaji, for the whatever to
35:23
sit on the plush high chair while you go and sit on the
35:28
lower stool or lower chair. You know, because in this part
35:35
of the world, those things make a difference.
35:37
You know, he's a sugar, but he wants to feel as if he's the
35:39
donor. No problem.
35:41
You're the one that's chasing money should be what you're
35:42
looking for is you want your quarter of 50 M.
35:44
So, you know, go in case I ask collection of 50 M, you know,
35:48
and then leave. So all these things are
35:51
culturally conditioned, or should I say culturally
35:56
determined. So just bear that in mind.
36:00
So when it comes to posture, you should be looking out for
36:04
people's posture, and you should also watch your own posture.
36:07
Use the posture that signifies interest or that signifies
36:11
excitement, you know? So yeah, back to that whole
36:16
sitting across things. Sitting across, Yeah, yes, in
36:20
the Western context, no problem. But depending on the cultural
36:23
context, depending on the tribe, you know, if the gist is getting
36:27
sweet or if you're getting much more in tune, actually, you
36:29
standing up from side to side and maybe moving closer.
36:33
So standing up from across and moving over to side to side is a
36:37
way of signifying interest or excitement or engagement.
36:43
So let's see. So posture, that's why you
36:46
should be watching out for interest or excitement.
36:49
Then gestures, you're looking for gestures that show openness,
36:52
other people are being receptive or whether they're being closed.
36:55
So you know it, it depends. So in Western contexts, if
37:00
someone is looking and smiling and nodding their head, you
37:04
know, it's a sign of interest and openness and people are
37:07
being receptive. But in some cultures in Nigeria,
37:11
sometimes if you're talking off point and you're talking OP,
37:14
they will look at you and they will smile at you and they will
37:17
be nodding their head. And you might think, Oh yes,
37:20
yes, we're making progress. But actually, in their minds, I
37:22
say, OK, go on young man, because you're speaking English.
37:24
I'll be, and no problem, no problem.
37:27
You're deceiving yourself. And continue, continue.
37:30
They're smiling and they're nodding.
37:32
But actually it could mean something else.
37:33
So Please remember, cultural context, cultural backgrounds,
37:38
cultural assumption. A smile and a nod doesn't always
37:41
mean we're following. Sometimes, especially in
37:44
Nigeria, a smile and a nod can mean continue speaking English.
37:47
You are deceiving yourself. When you're ready, you will do
37:50
things the right way. So pay attention.
37:53
Then facial expressions, we should be looking up for facial
37:55
expressions because that shows emotions, verbal cues.
37:58
We should be looking out for tone and pitch, you know,
38:02
because those things also show whether people are with us or
38:05
not. And please just remember that in
38:08
this part of the world, a whole lot of these things are
38:11
contextual. That is why whenever I talk
38:13
about these sorts of things, I always say that, look, if you
38:16
have an inside man or an inside babe, it would help.
38:19
So if I'm going to Zamphara today, because I'm trying to do
38:23
a bit of business, you know, the first time I want to do is to
38:26
hook up with somebody to show me the layer of the land, you know,
38:29
or I might go and see Alhaji Kabir, you know, blah, blah,
38:33
blah. Or do you know him?
38:35
Where's the address? You know, blah, blah, blah.
38:36
OK, are you free? And let's even go together.
38:39
And I will take dressing from my host or from my guide about what
38:43
to do and what not to do because in the Western climb, it's OK
38:47
Enter the person's house, keep your shoes on.
38:50
There are some places where the culture is.
38:52
Enter the place, take your shoes off.
38:55
And here there is also a Japanese thing.
38:57
Enter take your shoes off. In fact, the host will even
38:59
provide you the slippers they are supposed to wear inside the
39:02
house. So you know all these sorts of
39:04
things. So if you go and you have a
39:06
local host, you have a local guide or something.
39:08
And as you get into the house or the office where you're going
39:11
and the person removes their shoe, please off your shoe.
39:15
If it is appropriate for you to keep your shoe on, the host will
39:19
tell you that Oh no, no, no, no, no problem.
39:21
It's OK, you can't keep your shoes on.
39:23
But bottom line, it helps if you have an inside man, an inside
39:27
woman, a somebody that is guiding you, they can now be
39:31
reading some of these things because I'm thief.
39:34
I'm from Berlin State. I was born in Makati, but I
39:37
spent most of my time in Abuja and then Lagos and then a bit of
39:41
my time in Scotland. So there are some things I will
39:44
not understand if I'm trying to sell in some parts of Ocean or
39:49
some parts of Sokoto or in some parts of Cameroon.
39:52
There are some things that I just won't know.
39:55
I'll have to take dressing, I'll have to take cues.
39:58
So bear that in mind. There's plenty of contextual
40:02
stuff. We should be looking out for
40:04
contextual cues. What is the environment?
40:06
What is the purpose of the interaction?
40:08
What are the power dynamics? You know, I thought I also
40:11
mentioned the whole thing of, you know, anyway, let me know if
40:17
I stress it before. Some of you say I'm dealing in
40:18
stereotypes. So power dynamics and then
40:23
relative status of the parties, all these things are important.
40:26
So these are some of the stuff that we should pay pay attention
40:29
to when it comes to observing body language.
40:31
So when you read the book by Jim, sorry, is it Jim, whether I
40:35
write it, Jeremy, Jeremy Hurwitz, Selleck, despite out of
40:38
persuasion, the chapter on body language, my recommendation is
40:43
be careful because he's going to be saying lots of stuff from a
40:46
Western perspective. So just remember that culture
40:51
and all these things are important.
40:53
So there's been 40 minutes, so let me bring this episode to a
40:55
close. If you'd love to connect, the
40:57
phone number is 08064662140. The country code is +234.
41:03
For those of you who are not Nigerian, then connect with me
41:06
on socials. I'm on LinkedIn as Tavishima
41:09
Ayedi. That is the name to look for.
41:11
So thanks for your time and attention.
41:14
Tomorrow we'll move on to the Power of information and that is
41:18
chapter 2 in the book. Jeremy Hurowitz Sell like a spy,
41:22
The art of persuasion. Remember, this is not a book
41:25
review. I am just exploring themes
41:28
covered in the book from a sales and business development
41:30
perspective. But of course, I'd recommend
41:32
that if you can look for the book, buy it and read it.
41:37
And I hope you guys ability to see why I say that principles of
41:41
selling sales are universal. So just pick whatever it is that
41:44
you like. Because you've seen that Jeremy
41:47
Hurowitz is a journalist and he's writing about these things.
41:52
Well, you've seen that if you're going to read his book and try
41:54
and become much more effective at selling, you can see that
41:58
there's good principles there. So yeah, so whether it's Brian
42:02
Tracy or Jeremy Hurwitz or whether it's my podcast or
42:05
whether it's anybody else's podcast, you know, don't worry,
42:08
just pick what sounds interesting, what picks your
42:11
fancy, what sounds doable to you, because I'm much more
42:14
concerned about what you're actually going to do.
42:16
So listen and then do go and apply and then we'll see the
42:19
growth in our businesses. So thanks for your time and
42:22
attention. I'll catch you guys at the next
42:24
episode.